Advice for Adult Beginner

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Date: 17 Dec 2006 20:13:56
From: The Historian
Subject: Advice for Adult Beginner

Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike today (Trek Navigator
3.0), and it will be delivered next week. I am male, 41, six feet one
inch, and currently 275 pounds. I was 385 in January. I've lost a lot
of weight, but despite working out I haven't added a lot of muscle.
Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been motivated to
take up biking by posters on alt.support.diet, and the story of Preston
Crawford here on r.b.m.

Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially concerned about
falling - balancing on two wheels isn't something I've had much
practice doing.

Thanks again,
Neil

Date: 23 Dec 2006 17:31:30
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

David L. Johnson wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:47:51 -0800, The Historian wrote:
>
> >> not a problem. You have a helmet, as I think you mentioned. Be sure to
> >> wear gloves, since if you fall you tend to stick your hands out -- gloves
> >> keep your palms from being cut up.
> >
> > I have fingerless lifting gloves - will they work for biking?
>
> AS far as protecting your palms, they should work. But it might actually
> get cold around here sometime, and full-fingered gloves are nice in the
> cold.
>
> > Yes, they do, and I fully intend to utilize the good folks at
> > Bikesports. Aside from the fact they seem to think I know more than I
> > do, they were wonderful to deal with. I can't wait to get my Trek
> > Navigator 3.0 this Saturday.

Ok, I got the bike. Bikesport was having their holiday open house, but
despite that, the staff spent a great deal of time with me going over
the operation of the gears, the brakes, etc. Peter was especially
helpful, and walked me through a few minutes of balancing practice in
the parking lot. I managed to pedal a few feet without losing balance
or control. I need a lot of practice, but I'm going to be OK, I think.
I can ride!

Thanks to all the posters for the good advice they gave me.

Neil

Date: 20 Dec 2006 20:00:29
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Set wrote:
> On 19 Dec 2006 19:53:19 -0800, "The Historian" <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Set wrote:
> >> If he's still worried about being 'too heavy' to
> >> ride the bike, a trainer isn't a bad idea. Perhaps <g> he could even start
> >> to shed a few pounds.
> >
> >Hi Set,
> >
> >You can see my progress at:
> >http://picasaweb.google.com/chesshistorian/TheIncredibleShrinkingHistorian
> >
> >Note I've dropped 110 pounds in 11 months.
> >
> >> In addition, a trainer is a good way to build up the cycling muscles.
> >> Having more horsepower is a good way to deal with problems once you get out
> >> on the road. You certainly don't want to be underpowered.
> >
> >I've been using the stationary bikes and leg presses at my gym in
> >preparation for biking.
> >
> >Neil
>
> You've done an incredible job. Do you have a road bike in mind to purchase
> when you reach a certain weight or something?

Perhaps I should learn how to ride first? That's a little hurdle I need
to clear before anything else.

> I think at about 230-240lbs you can ride most any bike with standard 32
> spoked wheels without too much problem as long as you're not jumping curbs.

OK.

> Good luck and thanks for sharing your page and story.

Date: 19 Dec 2006 20:14:23
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> :: Yeah, that's what you need a stationary bike to take up
> :: all that space. And, like noobs are going to get up the
> :: energy to go to the gym. You know you can slap a bike in
> :: the trainer in no time. Heck you can store it there and
> :: just swap out the skewer in about a minute and ride.
> ::
>
> Okay...you've tripped my stupid meter too many times. Good night.

Hmm, just my luck. Three days on the newsgroup and I spark a flame-war.
:-)

Meanwhile, I think I should clarify for some posters just why I got a
bike. Being obese is hiding. It's hiding from responsibility, its
hiding from exertion, its hiding from joy, its hiding from life. At 385
pounds, I was well-hidden. But fortunately, I wised up and stopped
hiding. I've dropped 110 pounds, and as I've dropped the weight I've
found myself doing things I've never done before - things I've never
thought of myself doing. I've gone rowing this summer, I've taken up
hiking, and now I'm attempting - no, I'm learning - to ride a bike.
Yes, a bike may help me lose more weight. But I was going to lose it
anyway - that I know, because I'm making it happen. Bicycling is not
the means to lose weight, it's a joy of weight loss. It's fun, which
seems to me the best reason to ride. Don't you agree?

Neil
http://picasaweb.google.com/chesshistorian/TheIncredibleShrinkingHistorian

Date: 20 Dec 2006 08:20:34
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

"The Historian" <Spamscone@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1166588063.640321.219030@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::
::::: Yeah, that's what you need a stationary bike to take
::::: up all that space. And, like noobs are going to get
::::: up the energy to go to the gym. You know you can slap
::::: a bike in the trainer in no time. Heck you can store
::::: it there and just swap out the skewer in about a
::::: minute and ride.
:::::
:::
::: Okay...you've tripped my stupid meter too many times.
::: Good night.
::
:: Hmm, just my luck. Three days on the newsgroup and I
:: spark a flame-war. :-)

No, it was on-going before your post. See "Riding and weight Loss?"

::
:: Meanwhile, I think I should clarify for some posters
:: just why I got a bike. Being obese is hiding. It's
:: hiding from responsibility, its hiding from exertion,
:: its hiding from joy, its hiding from life. At 385
:: pounds, I was well-hidden. But fortunately, I wised up
:: and stopped hiding. I've dropped 110 pounds, and as I've
:: dropped the weight I've found myself doing things I've
:: never done before - things I've never thought of myself
:: doing. I've gone rowing this summer, I've taken up
:: hiking, and now I'm attempting - no, I'm learning - to
:: ride a bike. Yes, a bike may help me lose more weight.
:: But I was going to lose it anyway - that I know, because
:: I'm making it happen. Bicycling is not the means to lose
:: weight, it's a joy of weight loss. It's fun, which
:: seems to me the best reason to ride. Don't you agree?
::

Well, I started at 367 lbs and I've lost 140 lbs and have kept it off going
on 3 years now.

People can use cycling as a means to weight loss or for sheer pleasure -
getting out of the house and getting some regular exercise. It's their
choice. And I have no problems with how people tend to view it.
But to have idiots saying "Oh, cycling isn't a good way to lose weight
because it isn't strenuous enough..."
Well, that kind of BS shouldn't to stand....

Good luck!

:: Neil
::
http://picasaweb.google.com/chesshistorian/TheIncredibleShrinkingHistorian

Date: 20 Dec 2006 08:33:43
From: Set
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 08:20:34 -0500, "Roger Zoul" <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>People can use cycling as a means to weight loss or for sheer pleasure -
>getting out of the house and getting some regular exercise. It's their
>choice. And I have no problems with how people tend to view it.
>But to have idiots saying "Oh, cycling isn't a good way to lose weight
>because it isn't strenuous enough..."
>Well, that kind of BS shouldn't to stand....

BTW, now that you've stooped to insults, I'm sure when you meet strangers
and tell them your an accomplished cyclist they look at you and wonder why
you're still such a FF and figure you're in denial. You'll always be that
way, no matter what you do. An obese sausage guy carrying around obscene
amounts of excess skin. Way to go, Professor. ;-p

Date: 20 Dec 2006 16:41:19
From: Set
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 08:33:43 -0500, Set<@setnet.com > wrote:

>On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 08:20:34 -0500, "Roger Zoul" <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>People can use cycling as a means to weight loss or for sheer pleasure -
>>getting out of the house and getting some regular exercise. It's their
>>choice. And I have no problems with how people tend to view it.
>>But to have idiots saying "Oh, cycling isn't a good way to lose weight
>>because it isn't strenuous enough..."
>>Well, that kind of BS shouldn't to stand....
>
>BTW, now that you've stooped to insults, I'm sure when you meet strangers
>and tell them your an accomplished cyclist they look at you and wonder why
>you're still such a FF and figure you're in denial. You'll always be that
>way, no matter what you do. An obese sausage guy carrying around obscene
>amounts of excess skin. Way to go, Professor. ;-p
>

OK, I apologize for this posting. I let the heat of the debate get the
better of me. Sorry about that. ;-/

Date: 20 Dec 2006 08:32:09
From: Set
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 08:20:34 -0500, "Roger Zoul" <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>Well, I started at 367 lbs and I've lost 140 lbs and have kept it off going
>on 3 years now.

Did you lose it riding a bike? No. You lost it doing LC dieting.

>People can use cycling as a means to weight loss or for sheer pleasure -
>getting out of the house and getting some regular exercise. It's their
>choice. And I have no problems with how people tend to view it.
>But to have idiots saying "Oh, cycling isn't a good way to lose weight
>because it isn't strenuous enough..."
>Well, that kind of BS shouldn't to stand....

I see you STILL don't understand what's being said, even though you claimed
to do so in another thread. What a dumbass you are, Roger. ;-)

>
>Good luck!

Date: 19 Dec 2006 19:53:19
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Set wrote:
> If he's still worried about being 'too heavy' to
> ride the bike, a trainer isn't a bad idea. Perhaps <g> he could even start
> to shed a few pounds.

Hi Set,

You can see my progress at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/chesshistorian/TheIncredibleShrinkingHistorian

Note I've dropped 110 pounds in 11 months.

> In addition, a trainer is a good way to build up the cycling muscles.
> Having more horsepower is a good way to deal with problems once you get out
> on the road. You certainly don't want to be underpowered.

I've been using the stationary bikes and leg presses at my gym in
preparation for biking.

Neil

Date: 20 Dec 2006 16:45:33
From: Set
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On 19 Dec 2006 19:53:19 -0800, "The Historian" <Spamscone@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>Set wrote:
>> If he's still worried about being 'too heavy' to
>> ride the bike, a trainer isn't a bad idea. Perhaps <g> he could even start
>> to shed a few pounds.
>
>Hi Set,
>
>You can see my progress at:
>http://picasaweb.google.com/chesshistorian/TheIncredibleShrinkingHistorian
>
>Note I've dropped 110 pounds in 11 months.
>
>> In addition, a trainer is a good way to build up the cycling muscles.
>> Having more horsepower is a good way to deal with problems once you get out
>> on the road. You certainly don't want to be underpowered.
>
>I've been using the stationary bikes and leg presses at my gym in
>preparation for biking.
>
>Neil

You've done an incredible job. Do you have a road bike in mind to purchase
when you reach a certain weight or something?

I think at about 230-240lbs you can ride most any bike with standard 32
spoked wheels without too much problem as long as you're not jumping curbs.

Good luck and thanks for sharing your page and story.

Date: 19 Dec 2006 21:52:11
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:47:51 -0800, The Historian wrote:

>> not a problem. You have a helmet, as I think you mentioned. Be sure to
>> wear gloves, since if you fall you tend to stick your hands out -- gloves
>> keep your palms from being cut up.
>
> I have fingerless lifting gloves - will they work for biking?

AS far as protecting your palms, they should work. But it might actually
get cold around here sometime, and full-fingered gloves are nice in the
cold.

> Yes, they do, and I fully intend to utilize the good folks at
> Bikesports. Aside from the fact they seem to think I know more than I
> do, they were wonderful to deal with. I can't wait to get my Trek
> Navigator 3.0 this Saturday.
>
>> E-mail me if you need more assistance.
>
> OK, I will, if I need it. Thanks, David, for the advice. Please note I
> am using a bogus email address for newsgroup posting, so please don't
> email me there.

OK.

--

David L. Johnson

__o

Date: 19 Dec 2006 19:47:51
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

David L. Johnson wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 05:48:27 -0800, The Historian wrote:
>
> > Bill, I didn't bike for long as a kid. I was a lazy, fat child, and
> > only rode for a couple of weeks. There's little or no learning to come
> > back to. That's why I am concerned about learning to ride. Heck, I even
> > asked the folks at Bikesports in Trappe, the LBS I bought the bike
> > from, if they know someone who could give me lessons. They quoted that
> > old saying too.
>
> Neil: You should be able to find someone to help you learn to ride. It
> will not take you that long to get to the point of being up and rolling.
> I have a task this week of teaching my adult daughter how to ride ---
> finally she is willing to try. I plan the following:
>
> 1) Start out with pedals removed, and seat low enough so the rider can put
> both feet on the ground. Ride it like a hobby-horse. The goal is to
> begin to learn how to balance.
>
> 2) After enough pushes to get some idea of balancing, then put the pedals
> on and work on actually propelling yourself forward.

OK, we'll start with that.

> These two steps are best done in a protected area, either a very quiet
> side street, or a bike path. If you live near Trappe, Valley Forge is
> nearby and has a great network of paths. Evansburg Park has a reasonable
> area as well.

As do Audubon and Phoenixville - I'm in Spring City.

Just wear enough to protect yourself, which in winter is
> not a problem. You have a helmet, as I think you mentioned. Be sure to
> wear gloves, since if you fall you tend to stick your hands out -- gloves
> keep your palms from being cut up.

I have fingerless lifting gloves - will they work for biking?

Long pants help shield the knees, but
> be sure that the cuffs don't interfere with the chain or gears. Don't
> over-dress, or you will overheat quickly.
>
> Past that point, it gets more technical, but also more fun. You have to
> be sure you know how to brake safely, and how to use the gears. You have
> to learn how to ride in traffic (well, OK, that may not sound like fun,
> but it isn't that bad). And you have to learn basic maintenance --
> maintaining proper tire pressure is key to enjoyable riding, and knowing
> how to change a flat tube or deal with a chain that has come off the
> sprockets can be the difference between making it home and waiting for an
> annoyed loved one to come rescue you.

Since I've invested in the bike, I've invested in all that goes with
it. And that's all of the above, and then some.

> You should contact people in the Bicycle Club of Philadelphia (BCP).
> Their website is http://www.phillybikeclub.org They don't have official
> classes or anything like that at this time of year, and beginner rides are
> over for the season, but you could probably find someone living near you
> who is willing to help you get started.

Thanks for the tip.

You might also want to contact
> BikeSports again for more help. I seem to recall that they have offered
> beginners maintenance classes that will teach you how to fix a flat and
> things like that.

Yes, they do, and I fully intend to utilize the good folks at
Bikesports. Aside from the fact they seem to think I know more than I
do, they were wonderful to deal with. I can't wait to get my Trek
Navigator 3.0 this Saturday.

> E-mail me if you need more assistance.

OK, I will, if I need it. Thanks, David, for the advice. Please note I
am using a bogus email address for newsgroup posting, so please don't
email me there.

Neil
http://picasaweb.google.com/chesshistorian/TheIncredibleShrinkingHistorian
http://correspondencechess.com/campbell/articles/a060615.htm

Date: 20 Dec 2006 09:29:56
From: Jeanne
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

The Historian wrote:
> David L. Johnson wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 05:48:27 -0800, The Historian wrote:
>>
>>> Bill, I didn't bike for long as a kid. I was a lazy, fat child, and
>>> only rode for a couple of weeks. There's little or no learning to come
>>> back to. That's why I am concerned about learning to ride. Heck, I even
>>> asked the folks at Bikesports in Trappe, the LBS I bought the bike
>>> from, if they know someone who could give me lessons. They quoted that
>>> old saying too.
>> Neil: You should be able to find someone to help you learn to ride. It
>> will not take you that long to get to the point of being up and rolling.
>> I have a task this week of teaching my adult daughter how to ride ---
>> finally she is willing to try. I plan the following:
>>
>> 1) Start out with pedals removed, and seat low enough so the rider can put
>> both feet on the ground. Ride it like a hobby-horse. The goal is to
>> begin to learn how to balance.
>>
>> 2) After enough pushes to get some idea of balancing, then put the pedals
>> on and work on actually propelling yourself forward.
>
> OK, we'll start with that.
>
>> These two steps are best done in a protected area, either a very quiet
>> side street, or a bike path. If you live near Trappe, Valley Forge is
>> nearby and has a great network of paths. Evansburg Park has a reasonable
>> area as well.
>

When we were teaching our daughter to ride, we got the advice to teach
her on a field track at the local high school. It was perfect for our
needs - flat, no sharp objects and quiet. My sister, OTOH, used the
parking lot of a local community college as a training ground for her
children.

Date: 19 Dec 2006 19:07:26
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

In article <aF1ih.543$ZT3.530@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com >,
Bill <bbaka@comcast.net > writes:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>> In article <M50ih.24246$wc5.12421@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>,
>> Bill <bbaka@comcast.net> writes:
>>
>>> I can't even wear most of the baseball style caps
>>> because they won't adjust to my head size and regular bicycle helmets
>>> just kind of look like a funny Jewish skull cap on me.
>>> I'm not exactly 'proportionate'.
>>
>> I can't really pull-off wearing baseball hats (or sunglasses
>> for that matter) and look good in 'em either. It's not a
>> "fit" thing, it's just that those things aren't really ... me.
>>
>> But maybe what works for me will work for you, too -- a nice,
>> Donegal tweed flat cap. It won't be Snell/ANSI-approved, but
>> you'd be stylin'. I'm partial to salt-&-pepper myself, but
>> a fine check is good, too.
>>
>> Gotta have short hair though, or else you'll end up looking
>> like Sam Kinnison (for whom I think a derby would have been
>> more suitable. And maybe a decent, belted camelhair coat
>> instead of that perverted-flasher/Columbo raincoat rag.)
>>
>>
>> cheers,
>> Tom
>>
> Really, it is just that my head is physically too big. I tried on some
> sunglasses at the store and snapped a pair in half because my head is
> too wide.

Maybe you should audition for those Jack In The Box commercials :-)

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 19 Dec 2006 19:39:58
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <aF1ih.543$ZT3.530@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
> Bill <bbaka@comcast.net> writes:
>> Really, it is just that my head is physically too big. I tried on some
>> sunglasses at the store and snapped a pair in half because my head is
>> too wide.
>
> Maybe you should audition for those Jack In The Box commercials :-)
>
>
> cheers,
> Tom
>
Not THAT big.
Bill

Date: 20 Dec 2006 03:11:57
From: Kristian M Zoerhoff
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

In article <ed9ame.c8c.ln@bud.garden.local >, tkeats2005@hotmail.com says...
> In article <aF1ih.543$ZT3.530@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
> Bill <bbaka@comcast.net> writes:
> >>
> > Really, it is just that my head is physically too big. I tried on some
> > sunglasses at the store and snapped a pair in half because my head is
> > too wide.
>
> Maybe you should audition for those Jack In The Box commercials :-)

Nah, that would require him to shave off the flowing mane.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com
(_)/ (_)

Date: 19 Dec 2006 19:42:19
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
> In article <ed9ame.c8c.ln@bud.garden.local>, tkeats2005@hotmail.com says...
>> In article <aF1ih.543$ZT3.530@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
>> Bill <bbaka@comcast.net> writes:
>>> Really, it is just that my head is physically too big. I tried on some
>>> sunglasses at the store and snapped a pair in half because my head is
>>> too wide.
>> Maybe you should audition for those Jack In The Box commercials :-)
>
> Nah, that would require him to shave off the flowing mane.
>
No, my wife requires me to cut it. It was shoulder length last year and
she made me go to the barber to look proper for my age group. Bummer.
She was never a hippie.
Bill Baka

Date: 19 Dec 2006 18:26:41
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

In article <M50ih.24246$wc5.12421@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net >,
Bill <bbaka@comcast.net > writes:

> I can't even wear most of the baseball style caps
> because they won't adjust to my head size and regular bicycle helmets
> just kind of look like a funny Jewish skull cap on me.
> I'm not exactly 'proportionate'.

I can't really pull-off wearing baseball hats (or sunglasses
for that matter) and look good in 'em either. It's not a
"fit" thing, it's just that those things aren't really ... me.

But maybe what works for me will work for you, too -- a nice,
Donegal tweed flat cap. It won't be Snell/ANSI-approved, but
you'd be stylin'. I'm partial to salt-&-pepper myself, but
a fine check is good, too.

Gotta have short hair though, or else you'll end up looking
like Sam Kinnison (for whom I think a derby would have been
more suitable. And maybe a decent, belted camelhair coat
instead of that perverted-flasher/Columbo raincoat rag.)

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 19 Dec 2006 18:58:05
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <M50ih.24246$wc5.12421@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>,
> Bill <bbaka@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> I can't even wear most of the baseball style caps
>> because they won't adjust to my head size and regular bicycle helmets
>> just kind of look like a funny Jewish skull cap on me.
>> I'm not exactly 'proportionate'.
>
> I can't really pull-off wearing baseball hats (or sunglasses
> for that matter) and look good in 'em either. It's not a
> "fit" thing, it's just that those things aren't really ... me.
>
> But maybe what works for me will work for you, too -- a nice,
> Donegal tweed flat cap. It won't be Snell/ANSI-approved, but
> you'd be stylin'. I'm partial to salt-&-pepper myself, but
> a fine check is good, too.
>
> Gotta have short hair though, or else you'll end up looking
> like Sam Kinnison (for whom I think a derby would have been
> more suitable. And maybe a decent, belted camelhair coat
> instead of that perverted-flasher/Columbo raincoat rag.)
>
>
> cheers,
> Tom
>
Really, it is just that my head is physically too big. I tried on some
sunglasses at the store and snapped a pair in half because my head is
too wide. I have a hard time with prescription glasses because the stems
are always too short and don't go far enough back to hook onto my ears
properly. Hair wise, mine is never short because it grows too fast and
I'm too cheap to get a haircut every 2 or 3 weeks. Getting thin on top
but what is there is having a speed grow contest. Funky genetics.
Bill Baka

Date: 19 Dec 2006 10:00:08
From: peter
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Date: 19 Dec 2006 09:30:20
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 05:48:27 -0800, The Historian wrote:

> Bill, I didn't bike for long as a kid. I was a lazy, fat child, and
> only rode for a couple of weeks. There's little or no learning to come
> back to. That's why I am concerned about learning to ride. Heck, I even
> asked the folks at Bikesports in Trappe, the LBS I bought the bike
> from, if they know someone who could give me lessons. They quoted that
> old saying too.

Neil: You should be able to find someone to help you learn to ride. It
will not take you that long to get to the point of being up and rolling.
I have a task this week of teaching my adult daughter how to ride ---
finally she is willing to try. I plan the following:

1) Start out with pedals removed, and seat low enough so the rider can put
both feet on the ground. Ride it like a hobby-horse. The goal is to
begin to learn how to balance.

2) After enough pushes to get some idea of balancing, then put the pedals
on and work on actually propelling yourself forward.

These two steps are best done in a protected area, either a very quiet
side street, or a bike path. If you live near Trappe, Valley Forge is
nearby and has a great network of paths. Evansburg Park has a reasonable
area as well. Just wear enough to protect yourself, which in winter is
not a problem. You have a helmet, as I think you mentioned. Be sure to
wear gloves, since if you fall you tend to stick your hands out -- gloves
keep your palms from being cut up. Long pants help shield the knees, but
be sure that the cuffs don't interfere with the chain or gears. Don't
over-dress, or you will overheat quickly.

Past that point, it gets more technical, but also more fun. You have to
be sure you know how to brake safely, and how to use the gears. You have
to learn how to ride in traffic (well, OK, that may not sound like fun,
but it isn't that bad). And you have to learn basic maintenance --
maintaining proper tire pressure is key to enjoyable riding, and knowing
how to change a flat tube or deal with a chain that has come off the
sprockets can be the difference between making it home and waiting for an
annoyed loved one to come rescue you.

You should contact people in the Bicycle Club of Philadelphia (BCP).
Their website is http://www.phillybikeclub.org They don't have official
classes or anything like that at this time of year, and beginner rides are
over for the season, but you could probably find someone living near you
who is willing to help you get started. You might also want to contact
BikeSports again for more help. I seem to recall that they have offered
beginners maintenance classes that will teach you how to fix a flat and
things like that.

E-mail me if you need more assistance.

--

David L. Johnson

__o

Date: 19 Dec 2006 05:48:27
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch wrote:
> The Historian <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > catzz66 wrote:
>
> > > > Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been motivated to
>
> This'll sound facetious, but I'm really quite serious. I hope you'll
> report back on how your first time back on a bike goes. There's an old
> saying: "It's like riding a bicycle--once you learn how you never
> forget." I'd be interested in finding out how true that is.

Bill, I didn't bike for long as a kid. I was a lazy, fat child, and
only rode for a couple of weeks. There's little or no learning to come
back to. That's why I am concerned about learning to ride. Heck, I even
asked the folks at Bikesports in Trappe, the LBS I bought the bike
from, if they know someone who could give me lessons. They quoted that
old saying too.

Neil

Date: 19 Dec 2006 10:09:32
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

The Historian <Spamscone@yahoo.com > wrote:
> D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch wrote:
>>
>> This'll sound facetious, but I'm really quite serious. I hope you'll
>> report back on how your first time back on a bike goes. There's an old
>> saying: "It's like riding a bicycle--once you learn how you never
>> forget." I'd be interested in finding out how true that is.
>
> Bill, I didn't bike for long as a kid. I was a lazy, fat child, and
> only rode for a couple of weeks. There's little or no learning to come
> back to. That's why I am concerned about learning to ride. Heck, I even
> asked the folks at Bikesports in Trappe, the LBS I bought the bike
> from, if they know someone who could give me lessons. They quoted that
> old saying too.

Heh, I didn't bike much earlier in life either. Maybe a total of 50-100
miles before I started cycling as an adult. I was very overweight until
very recently in my life.

Things I did:

1. Started lurking on this newsgroup for about 3 months
2. Read cycling street sts: http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsts/
3. Bought a bike
4. Rode bike
5. Got a 'bikebuddy'
6. Started riding to work.
7. Didn't stop riding.

I think step #7 is the most important. Just get out and start riding
and don't stop. You'll have weeks where you don't cycle much, that's
okay. Maybe just take the bike out for a spin around the block. Hit
the grocery store, hit the library, heck - hit the coffee shop. Make
sure you don't let yourself forget that riding a bike can be *fun*
damnit.

That should probably be step #0. Make sure riding the bike is fun.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
Algol-60 surely must be regarded as the most important programming language
yet developed.
-- T. Cheatham

Date: 19 Dec 2006 01:15:22
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch wrote:
> The Historian <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > catzz66 wrote:
>
> > > > Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been motivated to
>
> This'll sound facetious, but I'm really quite serious. I hope you'll
> report back on how your first time back on a bike goes. There's an old
> saying: "It's like riding a bicycle--once you learn how you never
> forget." I'd be interested in finding out how true that is.

Riding a bicycle is absolutely nothing like riding a bicycle.

I was thinking about a replacement bike for a stolen ride around the
time I broke my leg and it took me more than two years to get on a bike
again. Although I did a fair reasonable job of not killing myself in
the kilometer or two I rode that afternoon I did not particularly find
the balance thing or the braking thing or the anything at all about
this whole being on a two wheeled contraption thing easy.

It would take more than another year before I got back to the level of
confidence I'd previously had.

-M

Date: 18 Dec 2006 20:48:41
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On 17 Dec 2006 20:13:56 -0800, "The Historian"
<Spamscone@yahoo.com > wrote:

>Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially concerned about
>falling - balancing on two wheels isn't something I've had much
>practice doing.

You already know how to ride.

What you'll find is that there are way more cars and they have darker
tinted windows so you can't see what the idiots are doing. These days
drivers are more rude and far less likely to obey traffic laws.
Thirty years ago you didn't have to compete with cell phones for
their attention.

You also had fewer asshole bicyclists commenting on your headgear.
--
zk

Date: 19 Dec 2006 17:30:24
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Zoot Katz wrote:

> You also had fewer asshole bicyclists commenting on your headgear.

What do they say about your head gear? What sort do you have?

Hope you're not still wearing that dinosaur head around as you ride!

Riding in to work today, a lady in a small, junky looking econobox
covered in bumper stickers about "diversity" and "no peace without
justice" and something about "discrimination" pulled along side of
me and told me I should be wearing a helmet.

For the good of the world, if not my head, I guess.

SMH

Date: 19 Dec 2006 11:36:39
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 17:30:24 GMT, Stephen Harding
<smharding16@msn.com > wrote:
>
>> You also had fewer asshole bicyclists commenting on your headgear.
>
>What do they say about your head gear? What sort do you have?
>
>Hope you're not still wearing that dinosaur head around as you ride!

I guess it's the lack of headgear that draws more comments these
days. I live in a MHL jurisdiction. When I started riding with a
hell-mutt ~1976 it drew many unfavourable comments as well. There was
no MHL then.

My latest hat is a chromed General Electric retro style water kettle
that's been gutted and fitted with padding and straps. The bakelite
handle suggests a Mohawk hairdo or crest. It draws mostly favourable
comments. It's purely for "style" but so far has worked as a talisman
against brain injury and harassment. Being bright chrome aids
visibility too.
--
zk

Date: 19 Dec 2006 20:57:42
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Zoot Katz wrote:

> My latest hat is a chromed General Electric retro style water kettle
> that's been gutted and fitted with padding and straps. The bakelite
> handle suggests a Mohawk hairdo or crest. It draws mostly favourable
> comments. It's purely for "style" but so far has worked as a talisman
> against brain injury and harassment. Being bright chrome aids
> visibility too.

You need to use an old tea kettle instead.

I can just see steam coming out the spout when you have a bad
experience with one of those "scuds" on the road!

SMH

Date: 20 Dec 2006 00:12:09
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Stephen Harding wrote:
> Zoot Katz wrote:
>
>> My latest hat is a chromed General Electric retro style water kettle
>> that's been gutted and fitted with padding and straps. The bakelite
>> handle suggests a Mohawk hairdo or crest. It draws mostly favourable
>> comments. It's purely for "style" but so far has worked as a talisman
>> against brain injury and harassment. Being bright chrome aids
>> visibility too.
>
> You need to use an old tea kettle instead.
>
> I can just see steam coming out the spout when you have a bad
> experience with one of those "scuds" on the road!
>
>
> SMH

Speaking of helmets I have an oddball for the winter. It's a real helmet
since it is a Giro, but inside it says it is for Alpine skiers. I wear
it because it covers my ears in the cold weather but the padding is so
thick I could crash on my head and never feel it. It is also flat black
so style is out of the equation.
Bill Baka

Date: 19 Dec 2006 16:38:52
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 00:12:09 GMT, Bill <bbaka@comcast.net > wrote:

>Speaking of helmets I have an oddball for the winter. It's a real helmet
>since it is a Giro, but inside it says it is for Alpine skiers. I wear
>it because it covers my ears in the cold weather but the padding is so
>thick I could crash on my head and never feel it. It is also flat black
>so style is out of the equation.

From what I could gather the sole difference between ski helmets and
bicycling helmets is the sight lines are slightly better with cycling
helmets. They've both designed to be disposable after one use.
--
zk

Date: 20 Dec 2006 01:12:12
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Zoot Katz wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 00:12:09 GMT, Bill <bbaka@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Speaking of helmets I have an oddball for the winter. It's a real helmet
>> since it is a Giro, but inside it says it is for Alpine skiers. I wear
>> it because it covers my ears in the cold weather but the padding is so
>> thick I could crash on my head and never feel it. It is also flat black
>> so style is out of the equation.
>
> From what I could gather the sole difference between ski helmets and
> bicycling helmets is the sight lines are slightly better with cycling
> helmets. They've both designed to be disposable after one use.

Not the one I have unless you mean after one really serious crash. This
one is a full head helmet except for no mouth protection. It doesn't
have a part number that I can find unless #7513 'ravine' means anything
to you. I lucked out and found an XL size that fits my over sized head
so it is a keeper. I can't even wear most of the baseball style caps
because they won't adjust to my head size and regular bicycle helmets
just kind of look like a funny Jewish skull cap on me.
I'm not exactly 'proportionate'.
Bill Baka

Date: 19 Dec 2006 16:07:17
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 20:57:42 GMT, Stephen Harding
<smharding16@msn.com > wrote:

>
>> My latest hat is a chromed General Electric retro style water kettle
>> that's been gutted and fitted with padding and straps. The bakelite
>> handle suggests a Mohawk hairdo or crest. It draws mostly favourable
>> comments. It's purely for "style" but so far has worked as a talisman
>> against brain injury and harassment. Being bright chrome aids
>> visibility too.
>
>You need to use an old tea kettle instead.
>
>I can just see steam coming out the spout when you have a bad
>experience with one of those "scuds" on the road!

This one is oval so fits better than round ones. The spout is open.
It was never intended to whistle but is essentially the same as the
tea kettle to which you're referring. It contained its own heating
element. It probably made scores of thousands of cups of tea before
falling into my hands.

The spout may eventually be fitted with an incense burner of some
sort to produce smoke simulating steam.

Perhaps it's unnecessary to add the steam effect. The kettle alone
already seems to slow scud jockeys.

I think I've had a "eureka" moment.

Observations by my women friends who decorate their bikes with
flowers, my experience riding in dino or wearing the pig's head
helmet and the researcher who found that wearing a wig got him extra
road room may all be linked with the concepts presented by David
Engwricht in his book, "Mental Speed Bumps".
http://www.mentalspeedbumps.com/

Drivers become intrigued by something inexplicable. They slow down to
gather clues. They wonder why this person has flowers on their bike
or is wearing a goofy looking hat. Are they missing something? He
claims they leave their driver persona and become story tellers so as
to fill in the gaps.

It's a form of "second generation traffic calming" that can be
implemented by individuals.

Perhaps others can try doing something goofy with their lids and see
if they too notice a difference.
--
zk

Date: 18 Dec 2006 20:31:19
From: alath
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Old newbie myself, here. Just started riding again this Summer after
20+ years off.

I did have a nasty spill this Summer - here's so you can learn from my
mistake:

Beware of road hazards.

I was riding fast on a four lane street. It was a wet and drizzly day,
so the road was slick. I went over some railroad tracks that cross the
street at an angle. The front wheel drove off in the direction of the
tracks, and I kept going straight. No hospital injuries, and I am about
99.5% healed, but there is a sore spot at the base of my thumb that
still isn't 100%.

Gloves saved me a lot of skin that day, and I wear them every time I
ride.

Slowing down and going carefully over the tracks would have saved me
even more pain. So that's my tip: go slow and careful over any kind of
surface irregularity or any street that you don't know well. Going fast
is for roads that you know and good weather conditions. Wet leaves and
wet painted stripes can also be road hazards, not to mention potholes
and loose gravel.

Date: 20 Dec 2006 00:07:22
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

alath wrote:
> Old newbie myself, here. Just started riding again this Summer after
> 20+ years off.
>
> I did have a nasty spill this Summer - here's so you can learn from my
> mistake:
>
> Beware of road hazards.
>
> I was riding fast on a four lane street. It was a wet and drizzly day,
> so the road was slick. I went over some railroad tracks that cross the
> street at an angle. The front wheel drove off in the direction of the
> tracks, and I kept going straight. No hospital injuries, and I am about
> 99.5% healed, but there is a sore spot at the base of my thumb that
> still isn't 100%.
>
> Gloves saved me a lot of skin that day, and I wear them every time I
> ride.
>
> Slowing down and going carefully over the tracks would have saved me
> even more pain. So that's my tip: go slow and careful over any kind of
> surface irregularity or any street that you don't know well. Going fast
> is for roads that you know and good weather conditions. Wet leaves and
> wet painted stripes can also be road hazards, not to mention potholes
> and loose gravel.
>
I learned that with a motorcycle, going down at an embarrassing 5 MPH in
front of a bunch of guys on Harleys. Only my pride was hurt, but the
lesson was rubbed in by all the other guys laughing.
Bill Baka

Date: 18 Dec 2006 20:07:33
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

In article <45872dc3$0$80041$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org writes:

> I also didn't suggest that one perform an endo, but to become aware of
> how hard one needs to brake to raise the rear wheel. Have you done
> that since your incident. If not, I suggest you try it and see how
> much it takes to raise the rear wheel. It is not something most
> riders do easily.

In the city, endos and hops and wheelies can be wonderfully
effective tactics to persuade impatiently tailgating car
drivers to back-off and get out of your space.

It scares 'em.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 18 Dec 2006 16:54:17
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

In article <1166415236.223444.299010@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com >,
"The Historian" <Spamscone@yahoo.com > writes:
> Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike today (Trek Navigator
> 3.0), and it will be delivered next week. I am male, 41, six feet one
> inch, and currently 275 pounds. I was 385 in January. I've lost a lot
> of weight, but despite working out I haven't added a lot of muscle.
> Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been motivated to
> take up biking by posters on alt.support.diet, and the story of Preston
> Crawford here on r.b.m.
>
> Any advice for me on learning to ride?

You already did, 31 years ago. We don't lose it,
we just get a little rusty. The more we ride, the
more the rust gets worn off. That old saying is
true: we don't forget how to ride a bicycle.

> I'm especially concerned about
> falling - balancing on two wheels isn't something I've had much
> practice doing.

I think you'll be surprised at how quickly it all comes back.
You may, however, initially find it hard to go any appreciable
distance. And then there's the post-ride "spaghetti legs"
effect, where it takes a few minutes to get your land legs
back. Don't give up at that point. Just keep at it, and
you'll soon find yourself riding further and longer, and
feeling quite refreshed afterward. Well, maybe a little
flushed afterward. In the winter that's good, because you
can turn the thermostat down and still feel comfortably warm.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 18 Dec 2006 16:40:34
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

The Historian wrote:
> Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike today (Trek Navigator
> 3.0), and it will be delivered next week.....
>
> Thanks again,
> Neil
>

One thing I'd suggest is to make the bike useful, and try to use it
instead of driving for short errands. Put a rack on it, get a "trunk
bag" for the small stuff and consider some baskets for larger items as
well (the Wald folding grocery baskets are nice). A bicycle becomes a
lot more useful if you can /easily/ carry some cargo on it.

The other thing I'd suggest is flat-resistant tires, because flats are
always a bummer but not a MAJOR bummer if one has practice dealing with
them. Since you don't, you may to avoid them as much as possible, and
flat-resistant tires/tire liners/or tubes go a long way towards that....
Some possibles are Continental Town & Country, Schwalbe athon Plus,
and the Armadillo line from Specialized (Crossroads, Hemisphere and
Nimbus come in 26" sizes).
~

Date: 18 Dec 2006 12:39:56
From: Art Harris
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

The Historian wrote:
> I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike today (Trek Navigator
> 3.0), and it will be delivered next week. I am male, 41, six feet one
> inch, and currently 275 pounds. I was 385 in January. I've lost a lot
> of weight, but despite working out I haven't added a lot of muscle.
> Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years.
>
> Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially concerned about
> falling - balancing on two wheels isn't something I've had much
> practice doing.

Well, 41 is pretty young. If you road a bike at ten. you should get the
hang of it again pretty quickly.

Starting and stopping may be a little harder than just riding along. If
you're concerned about falling, try first on dirt or grass.

http://sheldonbrown.com/starting.html

Try to make your rides fun, not just work and suffering. Pick scenic
routes or interesting destinations. Maybe drive to remote starting
points to add variety. Or consider joining a bike club.

Start on quiet residential streets. Eventually plan out routes that
take advantage of quiet roads that parallel busy ones. Google Maps is a
great tool. Just enter your ZIP code into the "Jump to" box to get
started.

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/

Learn to ride st and safely in traffic:
http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsts/usa/index.htm

For more riding tips see:
http://sheldonbrown.com/beginners/index.html

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Art Harris

Date: 18 Dec 2006 16:14:02
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

The Historian wrote:
> Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike today (Trek Navigator
> 3.0), and it will be delivered next week. I am male, 41, six feet one
> inch, and currently 275 pounds. I was 385 in January. I've lost a lot
> of weight, but despite working out I haven't added a lot of muscle.
> Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been motivated to
> take up biking by posters on alt.support.diet, and the story of Preston
> Crawford here on r.b.m.

Yes, Preston has quite a story. Not certain if he lost all his
weight via a bicycle or if the bike was one component of his weight
loss success.

Haven't seen him around here for a while, but he does pop in and
out from time to time. Hope he gets to add his comments for you
if he has not done so already.

> Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially concerned about
> falling - balancing on two wheels isn't something I've had much
> practice doing.

Well I guess the best way to get back into biking is to simply
do it. As someone else mentioned, kids can do it, and despite
crashes, serious injury is usually not a result.

Probably most danger of crashing, initially, is simply going
very slowly. It can get a little difficult keeping the bike
up and pointed in the correct direction when your speed gets
down toward 5-6 mph. You might want to practice that a bit.

A second common source of crashing is incorrect use of the
brakes; usually too hard braking pressure, especially on the
front brake. I might add that failure to make use of the
front brake at all probably is a source of crashing as well.
Don't be afraid of it. It's your most powerful stopping
mechanism. A little practice using it is time well spent too.

I'd recommend you try to make bicycling a normal part of your
daily routine. No better way to do that than by using the bike
as a commuter vehicle. Your "workout" is built into your normal
getting to and from work activity.

Perhaps your commute distance is too long or there are no good
routes to/from work, or there are no facilities at work to
park your bike or wash up after a ride. Generally, these
factors can be overcome, but sometimes, you really are stuck
and a commute to work, even only a few days per week during
good weather, really aren't possible.

But if you can swing it, it's a fantastic way to work off excess
calories "automatically" while saving gas money and saving costs
of a health club, or time to do your "workout" ride.

Think about it once you re-attain those basic riding techniques
you haven't used in 31 years. It really won't take long!

SMH

Date: 18 Dec 2006 04:58:33
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

catzz66 wrote:
> The Historian wrote:
> > Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike today (Trek Navigator
> > 3.0), and it will be delivered next week. I am male, 41, six feet one
> > inch, and currently 275 pounds. I was 385 in January. I've lost a lot
> > of weight, but despite working out I haven't added a lot of muscle.
> > Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been motivated to
> > take up biking by posters on alt.support.diet, and the story of Preston
> > Crawford here on r.b.m.
> >
> > Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially concerned about
> > falling - balancing on two wheels isn't something I've had much
> > practice doing.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Neil
> >
>
> Congratulations on your weight loss to date.

Thank you.

Personally, I would not
> recommend anything but platform pedals till you get really comfortable
> with the bike, and maybe even then not for a long time.

That's what I'm starting with.

> Get comfortable with the road and the physics of riding. Braking is not
> hard to learn. Keep both hands on the handlebars and at least in close
> contact with the brakes. I'd wear a helmet.

That was my second purchase.

> I've gone down a couple of times. One was a rookie braking mistake
> where I braked with the front wheel and it jackknifed the bike. I
> didn't have a good grip on the bars with both hands. Another was a
> harmless rollover, both on wet pavement. I don't ride on the sidewalk
> or jump curbs and I look where I am going and have had no further
> problems. Have never gone over the bars, but I have learned to keep my
> weight back when I am out of the seat.
>
> Good luck.

Thanks for the advice, and the good wishes, from you and the other
posters in this thread.

Neil

Date: 19 Dec 2006 02:21:01
From:
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

The Historian <Spamscone@yahoo.com > wrote:

> catzz66 wrote:

> > > Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been motivated to

This'll sound facetious, but I'm really quite serious. I hope you'll
report back on how your first time back on a bike goes. There's an old
saying: "It's like riding a bicycle--once you learn how you never
forget." I'd be interested in finding out how true that is.

Bill

__o

Date: 18 Dec 2006 06:47:38
From: catzz66
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Date: 18 Dec 2006 01:21:04
From: Set
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On 17 Dec 2006 20:13:56 -0800, "The Historian" <Spamscone@yahoo.com > wrote:

>Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike today (Trek Navigator
>3.0), and it will be delivered next week. I am male, 41, six feet one
>inch, and currently 275 pounds. I was 385 in January. I've lost a lot
>of weight, but despite working out I haven't added a lot of muscle.
>Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been motivated to
>take up biking by posters on alt.support.diet, and the story of Preston
>Crawford here on r.b.m.
>
>Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially concerned about
>falling - balancing on two wheels isn't something I've had much
>practice doing.
>
>Thanks again,
>Neil

How about finding a large, well-mowed grassy area to practice? When I first
got clipless pedals, that's what I did, riding a large figure-8 at the
local park.

If you're extremely worried about falling or traffic, why not get a
trainer, which is a device you can put your bike's rear wheel on and ride
indoors. (search on performance bikes and trainer)

Good luck.

Date: 19 Dec 2006 06:45:05
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

"Set" <@setnet.com > wrote in message
news:smcco2hpqd4g0vsk24lh5pfja3dn95r60c@4ax.com
:: On 17 Dec 2006 20:13:56 -0800, "The Historian"
:: <Spamscone@yahoo.com > wrote:
::
::: Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike today
::: (Trek Navigator
::: 3.0), and it will be delivered next week. I am male,
::: 41, six feet one inch, and currently 275 pounds. I was
::: 385 in January. I've lost a lot of weight, but despite
::: working out I haven't added a lot of muscle. Also, I
::: haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been
::: motivated to take up biking by posters on
::: alt.support.diet, and the story of Preston Crawford
::: here on r.b.m.
:::
::: Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially
::: concerned about falling - balancing on two wheels isn't
::: something I've had much practice doing.
:::
::: Thanks again,
::: Neil
::
:: How about finding a large, well-mowed grassy area to
:: practice? When I first got clipless pedals, that's what
:: I did, riding a large figure-8 at the local park.
::
:: If you're extremely worried about falling or traffic,
:: why not get a trainer, which is a device you can put
:: your bike's rear wheel on and ride indoors. (search on
:: performance bikes and trainer)
::

You're suggesting that he ride a bike indoors on a trainer to overcome
falling or fear of traffic? So, instead of dealing with the fears head on
he should run from them?

:: Good luck.

Date: 19 Dec 2006 09:52:50
From: Set
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 06:45:05 -0500, "Roger Zoul" <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>"Set" <@setnet.com> wrote in message
>news:smcco2hpqd4g0vsk24lh5pfja3dn95r60c@4ax.com
>:: On 17 Dec 2006 20:13:56 -0800, "The Historian"
>:: <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote:
>::
>::: Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike today
>::: (Trek Navigator
>::: 3.0), and it will be delivered next week. I am male,
>::: 41, six feet one inch, and currently 275 pounds. I was
>::: 385 in January. I've lost a lot of weight, but despite
>::: working out I haven't added a lot of muscle. Also, I
>::: haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been
>::: motivated to take up biking by posters on
>::: alt.support.diet, and the story of Preston Crawford
>::: here on r.b.m.
>:::
>::: Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially
>::: concerned about falling - balancing on two wheels isn't
>::: something I've had much practice doing.
>:::
>::: Thanks again,
>::: Neil
>::
>:: How about finding a large, well-mowed grassy area to
>:: practice? When I first got clipless pedals, that's what
>:: I did, riding a large figure-8 at the local park.
>::
>:: If you're extremely worried about falling or traffic,
>:: why not get a trainer, which is a device you can put
>:: your bike's rear wheel on and ride indoors. (search on
>:: performance bikes and trainer)
>::
>
>You're suggesting that he ride a bike indoors on a trainer to overcome
>falling or fear of traffic? So, instead of dealing with the fears head on
>he should run from them?
>
>
>:: Good luck.

Yeah, should have suggested rollers.

;-p

Date: 19 Dec 2006 10:22:35
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

"Set" <@setnet.com > wrote in message
news:a5vfo29b0uca4inbphhn14qbfcs2sge7a8@4ax.com
:: On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 06:45:05 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
:: <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > wrote:
::
::: "Set" <@setnet.com > wrote in message
::: news:smcco2hpqd4g0vsk24lh5pfja3dn95r60c@4ax.com
::::: On 17 Dec 2006 20:13:56 -0800, "The Historian"
::::: <Spamscone@yahoo.com > wrote:
:::::
:::::: Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike
:::::: today (Trek Navigator
:::::: 3.0), and it will be delivered next week. I am male,
:::::: 41, six feet one inch, and currently 275 pounds. I
:::::: was 385 in January. I've lost a lot of weight, but
:::::: despite working out I haven't added a lot of muscle.
:::::: Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've
:::::: been motivated to take up biking by posters on
:::::: alt.support.diet, and the story of Preston Crawford
:::::: here on r.b.m.
::::::
:::::: Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially
:::::: concerned about falling - balancing on two wheels
:::::: isn't something I've had much practice doing.
::::::
:::::: Thanks again,
:::::: Neil
:::::
::::: How about finding a large, well-mowed grassy area to
::::: practice? When I first got clipless pedals, that's
::::: what I did, riding a large figure-8 at the local park.
:::::
::::: If you're extremely worried about falling or traffic,
::::: why not get a trainer, which is a device you can put
::::: your bike's rear wheel on and ride indoors. (search on
::::: performance bikes and trainer)
:::::
:::
::: You're suggesting that he ride a bike indoors on a
::: trainer to overcome falling or fear of traffic? So,
::: instead of dealing with the fears head on he should run
::: from them?
:::
:::
::::: Good luck.
::
:: Yeah, should have suggested rollers.
::

Now that's funny. At least you do have a sense of humor!

Date: 19 Dec 2006 10:38:36
From: Set
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:22:35 -0500, "Roger Zoul" <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>"Set" <@setnet.com> wrote in message
>news:a5vfo29b0uca4inbphhn14qbfcs2sge7a8@4ax.com
>:: On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 06:45:05 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
>:: <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>::
>::: "Set" <@setnet.com> wrote in message
>::: news:smcco2hpqd4g0vsk24lh5pfja3dn95r60c@4ax.com
>::::: On 17 Dec 2006 20:13:56 -0800, "The Historian"
>::::: <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote:
>:::::
>:::::: Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike
>:::::: today (Trek Navigator
<snip >
>::::: If you're extremely worried about falling or traffic,
>::::: why not get a trainer, which is a device you can put
>::::: your bike's rear wheel on and ride indoors. (search on
>::::: performance bikes and trainer)
>:::::
>:::
>::: You're suggesting that he ride a bike indoors on a
>::: trainer to overcome falling or fear of traffic? So,
>::: instead of dealing with the fears head on he should run
>::: from them?
>:::
>:::
>::::: Good luck.
>::
>:: Yeah, should have suggested rollers.
>::
>
>Now that's funny. At least you do have a sense of humor!

Natch, Jackson. ;-p

My initial thought was that as a complete noob, a trainer would confer
several advantages. First he could get some experience with riding position
and learn how to raise and level the saddle. I find that putting a bike on
a trainer helps with learning riding position.

Second he'd get familiar with the gearing and how to shift, the aim being
to build up some confidence with pedaling and shifting where it's
impossible to get hurt. If he's still worried about being 'too heavy' to
ride the bike, a trainer isn't a bad idea. Perhaps <g > he could even start
to shed a few pounds.

In addition, a trainer is a good way to build up the cycling muscles.
Having more horsepower is a good way to deal with problems once you get out
on the road. You certainly don't want to be underpowered.

Once the confidence is a little better then you can take the bike off the
trainer and find some quiet streets to practice more.

Finally with a trainer, you don't have to interrupt your regime on rainy or
snowy days.

Fair enough?

Date: 19 Dec 2006 11:24:31
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

"Set" <@setnet.com > wrote in message
news:se1go2hvse8bqn7b8afp8q7l0nafdhthev@4ax.com
:: On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:22:35 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
:: <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > wrote:
::
::: "Set" <@setnet.com > wrote in message
::: news:a5vfo29b0uca4inbphhn14qbfcs2sge7a8@4ax.com
::::: On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 06:45:05 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
::::: <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > wrote:
:::::
:::::: "Set" <@setnet.com > wrote in message
:::::: news:smcco2hpqd4g0vsk24lh5pfja3dn95r60c@4ax.com
:::::::: On 17 Dec 2006 20:13:56 -0800, "The Historian"
:::::::: <Spamscone@yahoo.com > wrote:
::::::::
::::::::: Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike
::::::::: today (Trek Navigator
:: <snip >
:::::::: If you're extremely worried about falling or
:::::::: traffic, why not get a trainer, which is a device
:::::::: you can put your bike's rear wheel on and ride
:::::::: indoors. (search on performance bikes and trainer)
::::::::
::::::
:::::: You're suggesting that he ride a bike indoors on a
:::::: trainer to overcome falling or fear of traffic? So,
:::::: instead of dealing with the fears head on he should
:::::: run from them?
::::::
::::::
:::::::: Good luck.
:::::
::::: Yeah, should have suggested rollers.
:::::
:::
::: Now that's funny. At least you do have a sense of humor!
::
:: Natch, Jackson. ;-p
::
:: My initial thought was that as a complete noob, a
:: trainer would confer several advantages. First he could
:: get some experience with riding position and learn how
:: to raise and level the saddle. I find that putting a
:: bike on a trainer helps with learning riding position.
::
:: Second he'd get familiar with the gearing and how to
:: shift, the aim being to build up some confidence with
:: pedaling and shifting where it's impossible to get hurt.
:: If he's still worried about being 'too heavy' to ride
:: the bike, a trainer isn't a bad idea. Perhaps <g > he
:: could even start to shed a few pounds.
::
:: In addition, a trainer is a good way to build up the
:: cycling muscles. Having more horsepower is a good way to
:: deal with problems once you get out on the road. You
:: certainly don't want to be underpowered.
::
:: Once the confidence is a little better then you can take
:: the bike off the trainer and find some quiet streets to
:: practice more.
::
:: Finally with a trainer, you don't have to interrupt your
:: regime on rainy or snowy days.
::
:: Fair enough?

No. Noobs don't want to start on a trainer....only serious cyclist use
trainers. He just needs to start pedaling. Of course, according to you his
effort on the bike will be worthless very soon. Why put even more money
into it?

Date: 19 Dec 2006 11:54:45
From: Set
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 11:24:31 -0500, "Roger Zoul" <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>::: Now that's funny. At least you do have a sense of humor!
>::
>:: Natch, Jackson. ;-p
>::
>:: My initial thought was that as a complete noob, a
>:: trainer would confer several advantages. First he could
>:: get some experience with riding position and learn how
>:: to raise and level the saddle. I find that putting a
>:: bike on a trainer helps with learning riding position.
>::
>:: Second he'd get familiar with the gearing and how to
>:: shift, the aim being to build up some confidence with
>:: pedaling and shifting where it's impossible to get hurt.
>:: If he's still worried about being 'too heavy' to ride
>:: the bike, a trainer isn't a bad idea. Perhaps <g> he
>:: could even start to shed a few pounds.
>::
>:: In addition, a trainer is a good way to build up the
>:: cycling muscles. Having more horsepower is a good way to
>:: deal with problems once you get out on the road. You
>:: certainly don't want to be underpowered.
>::
>:: Once the confidence is a little better then you can take
>:: the bike off the trainer and find some quiet streets to
>:: practice more.
>::
>:: Finally with a trainer, you don't have to interrupt your
>:: regime on rainy or snowy days.
>::
>:: Fair enough?
>
>No. Noobs don't want to start on a trainer....only serious cyclist use
>trainers. He just needs to start pedaling. Of course, according to you his
>effort on the bike will be worthless very soon. Why put even more money
>into it?

Noobs don't start on a trainer - probably true. 'Wanting to' is not
actually true - they just don't know any better. When I finally got my
trainer my first thought was 'I wish I had gotten this sooner!'.

Don't know why you're being so sarcastic. I never said that any effort into
cycling is worthless. I just caution people that if they think they're
going to go right out and ride and drop weight like a long distance runner
that they might find different.

I notice another poster has just offered the same observations about weight
loss and cycling after the initial few months.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.misc/tree/browse_frm/thread/561094afe94cb3ee/1f1f6841d3490646

There are LOTS of benefits to riding and only a few of them are related to
body recomposition.

See my post about the possible threshold levels where the weight just
starts dropping off and it's not easy to eat enough to maintain (fat)
weight.

I know you and GG want to inextricably link 'dieting and riding' as a
weight loss method. I'm just saying I'd like to eliminate the 'dieting'
part and just find where 'riding lots' does the job. Obviously you can't
start eating tons of junk food, but I think you can essentially ignore
calorie intake due to the large expenditure.

Date: 19 Dec 2006 14:03:28
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

"Set" <@setnet.com > wrote in message
news:lp5go2tko2ebegtejfqm8f427coiosn5cc@4ax.com
:: On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 11:24:31 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
:: <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > wrote:
::
:::::: Now that's funny. At least you do have a sense of
:::::: humor!
:::::
::::: Natch, Jackson. ;-p
:::::
::::: My initial thought was that as a complete noob, a
::::: trainer would confer several advantages. First he
::::: could get some experience with riding position and
::::: learn how to raise and level the saddle. I find that
::::: putting a bike on a trainer helps with learning
::::: riding position.
:::::
::::: Second he'd get familiar with the gearing and how to
::::: shift, the aim being to build up some confidence with
::::: pedaling and shifting where it's impossible to get
::::: hurt. If he's still worried about being 'too heavy'
::::: to ride the bike, a trainer isn't a bad idea. Perhaps
::::: <g > he could even start to shed a few pounds.
:::::
::::: In addition, a trainer is a good way to build up the
::::: cycling muscles. Having more horsepower is a good way
::::: to deal with problems once you get out on the road.
::::: You certainly don't want to be underpowered.
:::::
::::: Once the confidence is a little better then you can
::::: take the bike off the trainer and find some quiet
::::: streets to practice more.
:::::
::::: Finally with a trainer, you don't have to interrupt
::::: your regime on rainy or snowy days.
:::::
::::: Fair enough?
:::
::: No. Noobs don't want to start on a trainer....only
::: serious cyclist use trainers. He just needs to start
::: pedaling. Of course, according to you his effort on
::: the bike will be worthless very soon. Why put even
::: more money into it?
::
:: Noobs don't start on a trainer - probably true. 'Wanting
:: to' is not actually true - they just don't know any
:: better. When I finally got my trainer my first thought
:: was 'I wish I had gotten this sooner!'.

Well, honestly, it doesn't seem to st to buy a bike (assuming a decent
one) and then go buy a trainer so you can exercise, without ever riding on
the road (or path, etc.). Yeah, I see no problem with having a bike and
buying a trainer to expand the usage of the bike. But if you plan to
exercise indoors, get a stationary or go to the gym.

::
:: Don't know why you're being so sarcastic. I never said
:: that any effort into cycling is worthless. I just
:: caution people that if they think they're going to go
:: right out and ride and drop weight like a long distance
:: runner that they might find different.

Most people who are overweight will have no notion whatsoever of who a long
distance runner will drop weight. Most LD runners don't drop weight as most
them never develop a weight problem. So, trying to figure your angle here is
hard - it seems your main purpose is to put down cycling as a means of
weight loss. I see no other reasonable explanation.

::
:: I notice another poster has just offered the same
:: observations about weight loss and cycling after the
:: initial few months.

Oh, so now n=2. With all the misinfo about weight loss that abounds, this
hardly seems surprising.

::
::
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.misc/tree/browse_frm/thread/561094afe94cb3ee/1f1f6841d3490646
::
:: There are LOTS of benefits to riding and only a few of
:: them are related to body recomposition.

Okay.

::
:: See my post about the possible threshold levels where
:: the weight just starts dropping off and it's not easy to
:: eat enough to maintain (fat) weight.
::

I'm been trying my best to make you see that this is simply your experience.
How can you make any comments about what's easy and not easy for someone
else? Yeah, maybe it's not easy for you to eat enough but it might be easy
for me. And, hey, if you're eating upwards of 2500+ kcals a day, you could
definitely be messing up weight loss with 100 miles / week riding. That's
only 4000 kcals, which is slightly over a pound a week. An overweight person
of 220 lbs might only need 2200 kcals/day (that depend on body composition,
age, etc.), so 300+*7 = 2100 + kcals over if you're knocking down 2500
kcals/day. At the very least, weight loss will be slowed and at the worse,
it will disapear of you add anohter 300 kcals (for 2800 kcals/day) to that.
This can easily explain why you didn't see any weight loss based on your
comments in the other thread. You were simply eating too much.

Trying to compare this to running without any consideration to the effort
involved is folly. 40 minutes of running in a particular way may or may not
be equavilent to riding in a particular way.

:: I know you and GG want to inextricably link 'dieting and
:: riding' as a weight loss method.

What does "inextricably" mean here? Diet and execise are always linked into
the weight loss equation. As long as riding represents exercise, then it is
a valid tool for weight loss.

:: I'm just saying I'd
:: like to eliminate the 'dieting' part and just find where
:: 'riding lots' does the job.

Well, now that's a ball of an entirely different color. I'd have absolutely
no problem with that notion had you said it a long time ago! I personally
have no problem with this approach if it makes you happy and it works for
you. Go for it!!!

Obviously you can't start
:: eating tons of junk food, but I think you can
:: essentially ignore calorie intake due to the large
:: expenditure.

Sure, it can happen. However, for most people, I think they need to work
almost full time at it to avoid serious injury. Witness those "biggest
loser" tv shows and such.

Date: 19 Dec 2006 16:41:28
From: Set
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 14:03:28 -0500, "Roger Zoul" <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>:: Noobs don't start on a trainer - probably true. 'Wanting
>:: to' is not actually true - they just don't know any
>:: better. When I finally got my trainer my first thought
>:: was 'I wish I had gotten this sooner!'.
>
>Well, honestly, it doesn't seem to st to buy a bike (assuming a decent
>one) and then go buy a trainer so you can exercise, without ever riding on
>the road (or path, etc.). Yeah, I see no problem with having a bike and
>buying a trainer to expand the usage of the bike. But if you plan to
>exercise indoors, get a stationary or go to the gym.

Yeah, that's what you need a stationary bike to take up all that space.
And, like noobs are going to get up the energy to go to the gym. You know
you can slap a bike in the trainer in no time. Heck you can store it there
and just swap out the skewer in about a minute and ride.

>:: Don't know why you're being so sarcastic. I never said
>:: that any effort into cycling is worthless. I just
>:: caution people that if they think they're going to go
>:: right out and ride and drop weight like a long distance
>:: runner that they might find different.
>
>Most people who are overweight will have no notion whatsoever of who a long
>distance runner will drop weight. Most LD runners don't drop weight as most
>them never develop a weight problem. So, trying to figure your angle here is
>hard - it seems your main purpose is to put down cycling as a means of
>weight loss. I see no other reasonable explanation.

Get real. There are quite a few 'ex-athletes' who have a perfect idea of
what once being in shape was.

>:: I notice another poster has just offered the same
>:: observations about weight loss and cycling after the
>:: initial few months.
>
>Oh, so now n=2. With all the misinfo about weight loss that abounds, this
>hardly seems surprising.
>
>::
>::
>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.misc/tree/browse_frm/thread/561094afe94cb3ee/1f1f6841d3490646
>::
>:: There are LOTS of benefits to riding and only a few of
>:: them are related to body recomposition.
>
>Okay.
>
>::
>:: See my post about the possible threshold levels where
>:: the weight just starts dropping off and it's not easy to
>:: eat enough to maintain (fat) weight.
>::
>
>I'm been trying my best to make you see that this is simply your experience.
>How can you make any comments about what's easy and not easy for someone
>else? Yeah, maybe it's not easy for you to eat enough but it might be easy
>for me. And, hey, if you're eating upwards of 2500+ kcals a day, you could
>definitely be messing up weight loss with 100 miles / week riding. That's
>only 4000 kcals, which is slightly over a pound a week. An overweight person
>of 220 lbs might only need 2200 kcals/day (that depend on body composition,
>age, etc.), so 300+*7 = 2100 + kcals over if you're knocking down 2500
>kcals/day. At the very least, weight loss will be slowed and at the worse,
>it will disapear of you add anohter 300 kcals (for 2800 kcals/day) to that.
>This can easily explain why you didn't see any weight loss based on your
>comments in the other thread. You were simply eating too much.

Maybe.

>Trying to compare this to running without any consideration to the effort
>involved is folly. 40 minutes of running in a particular way may or may not
>be equavilent to riding in a particular way.
>
>:: I know you and GG want to inextricably link 'dieting and
>:: riding' as a weight loss method.
>
>What does "inextricably" mean here? Diet and execise are always linked into
>the weight loss equation. As long as riding represents exercise, then it is
>a valid tool for weight loss.

No, they're not. I lost considerable weight with no exercise at all due to
an injury. I also lost a fair amount of weight when I started cycling.

There's no need to have to do both, if, as you say, it's a matter of
calories in vs calories out.

>:: I'm just saying I'd
>:: like to eliminate the 'dieting' part and just find where
>:: 'riding lots' does the job.
>
>Well, now that's a ball of an entirely different color. I'd have absolutely
>no problem with that notion had you said it a long time ago! I personally
>have no problem with this approach if it makes you happy and it works for
>you. Go for it!!!

Well then the problem must be, since I've said that several times, you're
not the sharpest tack in the box. (j/k).

>:: Obviously you can't start
>:: eating tons of junk food, but I think you can
>:: essentially ignore calorie intake due to the large
>:: expenditure.
>
>Sure, it can happen. However, for most people, I think they need to work
>almost full time at it to avoid serious injury. Witness those "biggest
>loser" tv shows and such.

Huh? Injury? We're not talking Bull Riding here, amigo.

Date: 19 Dec 2006 19:28:29
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

"Set" <@setnet.com > wrote in message
news:3nmgo29ump6r3q6klqlt6hsm9r6665nkf9@4ax.com
:: On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 14:03:28 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
:: <Rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > wrote:
::
::::: Noobs don't start on a trainer - probably true.
::::: 'Wanting to' is not actually true - they just don't
::::: know any better. When I finally got my trainer my
::::: first thought was 'I wish I had gotten this sooner!'.
:::
::: Well, honestly, it doesn't seem to st to buy a bike
::: (assuming a decent one) and then go buy a trainer so
::: you can exercise, without ever riding on the road (or
::: path, etc.). Yeah, I see no problem with having a bike
::: and buying a trainer to expand the usage of the bike.
::: But if you plan to exercise indoors, get a stationary
::: or go to the gym.
::
:: Yeah, that's what you need a stationary bike to take up
:: all that space. And, like noobs are going to get up the
:: energy to go to the gym. You know you can slap a bike in
:: the trainer in no time. Heck you can store it there and
:: just swap out the skewer in about a minute and ride.
::

Okay...you've tripped my stupid meter too many times. Good night.

Date: 18 Dec 2006 06:10:33
From:
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Neil who? writes:

> Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike today (Trek
> Navigator 3.0), and it will be delivered next week. I am male, 41,
> six feet one inch, and currently 275 pounds. I was 385 in January.
> I've lost a lot of weight, but despite working out I haven't added a
> lot of muscle. Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've
> been motivated to take up biking by posters on alt.support.diet, and
> the story of Preston Crawford here on r.b.m.

> Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially concerned
> about falling - balancing on two wheels isn't something I've had
> much practice doing.

You can't turn back the clock, entirely. I and my friends who corner
near the limit on wet and dry roads learned that by falling and
determining that limit. We were in our teens and early twenties when
we did that stuff and broke no bones doing it. since then I broke a
hip on a rainy oily truck route in France when the foam was running
down the road. That was the part that I didn't learn in my youth.

Other than that, all the rest of the stuff is something that can
become second nature if you enjoy riding enough to go to interesting
places. Don't practice falling! That is an "If I were you"
suggestion by folks who are impractical about their own abilities.
These people are not you.

As you get surer on your bicycle, try hard braking on a straight
section of dry road, bracing your arms so that you don't "go over the
bars". Going over the bars is caused by people who brake hard without
realizing the only thing that keeps the body from continuing forward
while the bicycle stops is the arms. Practice raising the rear wheel
using only the front brake so that you know how hard and how to brake
when it counts.

In spite of what it seems, you will be better off with step in pedals
with cleats. That's another one you will easily get used to if you
want to ride much. I've been doing this for a lot of years and have
wonderful adventures, both locally in the Santa Cruz mountains (near
SF) and the Sierra Nevada. All that and the exotic thrill of riding
the Alps.

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos.html
http://www.trentobike.org/Countries/Europe/Tour_Reports/Tour_of_the_Alps/

Do it! Ride bike!

Jobst Brandt

Date: 18 Dec 2006 14:48:56
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
> As you get surer on your bicycle, try hard braking on a straight
> section of dry road, bracing your arms so that you don't "go over the
> bars". Going over the bars is caused by people who brake hard without
> realizing the only thing that keeps the body from continuing forward
> while the bicycle stops is the arms.

Most of that is excellent advice, but I do take issue with this bit.
The only time I endo'ed, I can confidently state I had a good firm grip.
In fact, I was still attached to the bike when my *back* wheel hit the
car in front of me.

I do confess to losing my grip on the left portion of the handlebar, but
that had more to do with it being wrenched out of my grasp as it dented
my top tube.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Now, Now, Davan. Rich people don't get drunk. We get eccentric.
And we don't vomit. We 'Trickle down to the lower classes'."
- Something Positive - Nov - 17 - 2004

Date: 19 Dec 2006 00:09:39
From:
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Dane Boson writes:

>> As you get surer on your bicycle, try hard braking on a straight
>> section of dry road, bracing your arms so that you don't "go over
>> the bars". Going over the bars is caused by people who brake hard
>> without realizing the only thing that keeps the body from
>> continuing forward while the bicycle stops is the arms.

> Most of that is excellent advice, but I do take issue with this bit.
> The only time I endnote, I can confidently state I had a good firm
> grip. In fact, I was still attached to the bike when my *back*
> wheel hit the car in front of me.

I suggest that striking the car was what overturned your bicycle, it
usually does and is a far greater decelerator than a sudden grasp of
the brake.

> I do confess to losing my grip on the left portion of the handlebar,
> but that had more to do with it being wrenched out of my grasp as it
> dented my top tube.

I also didn't suggest that one perform an endo, but to become aware of
how hard one needs to brake to raise the rear wheel. Have you done
that since your incident. If not, I suggest you try it and see how
much it takes to raise the rear wheel. It is not something most
riders do easily.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 19 Dec 2006 10:00:26
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Dane Boson writes:
>
>>> As you get surer on your bicycle, try hard braking on a straight
>>> section of dry road, bracing your arms so that you don't "go over
>>> the bars". Going over the bars is caused by people who brake hard
>>> without realizing the only thing that keeps the body from
>>> continuing forward while the bicycle stops is the arms.
>
>> Most of that is excellent advice, but I do take issue with this bit.
>> The only time I endnote, I can confidently state I had a good firm
>> grip. In fact, I was still attached to the bike when my *back*
>> wheel hit the car in front of me.
>
> I suggest that striking the car was what overturned your bicycle, it
> usually does and is a far greater decelerator than a sudden grasp of
> the brake.

Oddly enough, myself and all the witnesses disagree with your version of
events. I did not strike my head and rather clearly remember the
sequence of events.

I braked extremely suddenly because the car pulled out in front of me at
a distance of about 15-20 feet while I was doing about 30 mph. He
hadn't seen me as I was to the left of a van that was stopping to pull
into the parking lot he was pulling out of.

I (admittedly) panicked and grabbed the brakes very strongly and endoed
rather quickly. The bent canti brake mounts on the fork testify to
this rather nicely. The front wheel is fine (in fact is being used on
my fixie at the moment). My rack twisted like a pretzel from impact
with the pavement, my rear wheel thumped rather vigorously into the car
and tacoed. I also managed to crack the seat rails, which I still
haven't quite figured out the vector for.

>> I do confess to losing my grip on the left portion of the handlebar,
>> but that had more to do with it being wrenched out of my grasp as it
>> dented my top tube.
>
> I also didn't suggest that one perform an endo, but to become aware of
> how hard one needs to brake to raise the rear wheel. Have you done
> that since your incident. If not, I suggest you try it and see how
> much it takes to raise the rear wheel. It is not something most
> riders do easily.

Oh, I agree it's good advice, and it's something I've done many times.
I've done nose wheelies very successfully while screwing around and in
earnest. I've successfully ridden the edge of it during emergency stops
before. I'm not a trick rider, and there are certainly much better bike
handlers than me, but I do know how to stop with the front brake in most
situations.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
The penalty for laughing in a courtroom is six months in jail; if it
were not for this penalty, the jury would never hear the evidence.
-- H. L. Mencken

Date: 19 Dec 2006 07:24:17
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

>> I do confess to losing my grip on the left portion of the handlebar,
>> but that had more to do with it being wrenched out of my grasp as it
>> dented my top tube.
>
> I also didn't suggest that one perform an endo, but to become aware of
> how hard one needs to brake to raise the rear wheel. Have you done
> that since your incident. If not, I suggest you try it and see how
> much it takes to raise the rear wheel. It is not something most
> riders do easily.

Very true. But I have a difficult time explaining to customers that they
need to learn to use a *lot* of front brake if they want to stop
effectively. They invariably feel that they're going to go over the bars.
It's easy to spot these people, as their bikes come in with zero wear on the
front pads, and lots on the rear. Once in a while I think about saying "OK,
get back out on your bike and don't come back until I can find some wear on
your front brake shoes!" I think it, but don't actually say it. Probably a
good way to set myself up for a lawsuit.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Date: 19 Dec 2006 16:33:57
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>> I do confess to losing my grip on the left portion of the handlebar,
>>> but that had more to do with it being wrenched out of my grasp as it
>>> dented my top tube.
>> I also didn't suggest that one perform an endo, but to become aware of
>> how hard one needs to brake to raise the rear wheel. Have you done
>> that since your incident. If not, I suggest you try it and see how
>> much it takes to raise the rear wheel. It is not something most
>> riders do easily.
>
> Very true. But I have a difficult time explaining to customers that they
> need to learn to use a *lot* of front brake if they want to stop
> effectively. They invariably feel that they're going to go over the bars.
> It's easy to spot these people, as their bikes come in with zero wear on the
> front pads, and lots on the rear. Once in a while I think about saying "OK,
> get back out on your bike and don't come back until I can find some wear on
> your front brake shoes!" I think it, but don't actually say it. Probably a
> good way to set myself up for a lawsuit.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
Using the front brake is something I got well trained on from my
motorcycle days and the fast stops required by idiot cage drivers in
stop and go traffic. I learned NOT to do it in the rain or loose dirt
too, but only had a slip scare in the rain. Even on a fast stop from
100+ MPH I never got the rear off the ground but did lock the rear and
almost have it come around. On the bicycle I have raised the rear once,
on a 15% downhill with an unexpected switchback ahead, but managed to
only scare myself into not taking that hill on the down direction again.
Like they say, "All things in moderation".
Bill Baka

Date: 18 Dec 2006 17:27:19
From: catzz66
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

Dane Buson wrote:
>
> Most of that is excellent advice, but I do take issue with this bit.
> The only time I endo'ed, I can confidently state I had a good firm grip.
> In fact, I was still attached to the bike when my *back* wheel hit the
> car in front of me.
>
> I do confess to losing my grip on the left portion of the handlebar, but
> that had more to do with it being wrenched out of my grasp as it dented
> my top tube.
>

For me, preventing endos is more a factor of keeping my posterior back
near/over the seat and watching where I am going at all times. Like
driving a car, I try to keep my eyes focused way out in front of my
path. I know I have not begun to experience all the possible ways to
have an endo, but that is the last kind of unassisted spill I want to
take. Cycling is a blast once you begin to master the basic skills and
find your "bike legs." For me it is something I want to do every day
and is not drudgery, like some kinds of exercise have seemed.

Date: 17 Dec 2006 21:47:09
From: peter
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

The Historian wrote:
> Also, I haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been motivated to
> take up biking by posters on alt.support.diet, and the story of Preston
> Crawford here on r.b.m.
>
> Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially concerned about
> falling - balancing on two wheels isn't something I've had much
> practice doing.

You'll probably pick up the knack of balancing again very quickly. But
if you're concerned about it I would recommend starting with the seat
much lower than the normal pedaling position. Ideally it should be low
enough that you can comfortably put both feet flat on the floor while
remaining seated. The first experiment with balancing could be done
with the pedals removed and just pushing yourself along with your feet
while seated like on an old "Hobby Horse." An empty parking lot makes
a good practice area where you can practice first just taking a short
step at a time and then gradually increasing your coasting distance
between strides. Practice some turns and stops and get to where you're
feeling comfortable before putting the pedals back on. Still leave the
seat down for the first ride with pedals, but then gradually start
raising it as you gain confidence.

Date: 18 Dec 2006 00:42:44
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Advice for Adult Beginner

"The Historian" <Spamscone@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1166415236.223444.299010@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com
:: Hi, I am an adult beginner. I just bought a bike today
:: (Trek Navigator
:: 3.0), and it will be delivered next week. I am male, 41,
:: six feet one inch, and currently 275 pounds. I was 385
:: in January. I've lost a lot of weight, but despite
:: working out I haven't added a lot of muscle. Also, I
:: haven't ridden a bike in 31 years. But I've been
:: motivated to take up biking by posters on
:: alt.support.diet, and the story of Preston Crawford here
:: on r.b.m.
::
:: Any advice for me on learning to ride? I'm especially
:: concerned about falling - balancing on two wheels isn't
:: something I've had much practice doing.

Keep moving forward! Try it on grass first. It's not nearly as hard as
you've made it out to be in our head. Even a kid could do it!

Good luck!