Alternative to polyester teeshirts

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Date: 08 Sep 2006 02:15:35
From: Earthstick
Subject: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

Despite the claims that polyester is 'high wicking' and 'breathable' I
dont think its a very good material. It cant be washed at high enough
temperatures to kill bacteria and it smells. The polypropylene base
layers by HH seem to be better but why dont you get teeshirts made with
this? Anyone have a solution?

Date: 11 Sep 2006 16:18:13
From:
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

Earthstick wrote:
> Despite the claims that polyester is 'high wicking' and 'breathable' I
> dont think its a very good material. It cant be washed at high enough
> temperatures to kill bacteria and it smells. The polypropylene base
> layers by HH seem to be better but why dont you get teeshirts made with
> this? Anyone have a solution?

Ok there are alot of good suggestions on this post. Although I think
the thermodynamics of shower appliances is *slightly* off topic.

Yes, I am a culpret of leaving my washing in the basket for a prolly a
bit too long before I wash it. I guess if I wash it straight after I
use it then bacteria is not going to grow there. And hanging it on a
line to dry it will expose it to UV and help kill bacteria. I thought
of merino wool as well but thought it might be a bit warm.

Heres a link to the Helly Hansen Lifa base layers. They seem good but
the material snags easily on belt buckles, zips on the inside of your
jacket, just about anything, you might even be able to snag it on cold
nips!

http://www.hellyhansen.com/S06/index_flash.php

Date: 08 Sep 2006 18:25:21
From: Charles M
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

On 2006-09-08, Earthstick <richard.j.allen@bigfoot.com > wrote:
> Despite the claims that polyester is 'high wicking' and 'breathable' I
> dont think its a very good material. It cant be washed at high enough
> temperatures to kill bacteria and it smells. The polypropylene base
> layers by HH seem to be better but why dont you get teeshirts made with
> this? Anyone have a solution?
>

www.ibex.com
Go to site map then cycling.

CMM

Date: 08 Sep 2006 22:19:36
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

"Earthstick" <richard.j.allen@bigfoot.com > wrote in message
news:1157706935.525150.285070@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Despite the claims that polyester is 'high wicking' and 'breathable' I
> dont think its a very good material. It cant be washed at high enough
> temperatures to kill bacteria and it smells. The polypropylene base
> layers by HH seem to be better but why dont you get teeshirts made with
> this? Anyone have a solution?

There's always wool.

Date: 08 Sep 2006 14:10:23
From: Fritz M
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

Fred wrote:

> Polypropolene is much better than polyester - particularly where smell is
> concerned.

Polypro is infamous for its stink. That's why everybody has moved to
polyester.

That said, I have a problem with stink in my polyester shirts and
jerseys also. Some people use borax to help with it. I've found that
about a 1/4 cup chlorine bleach bleach added to my cycling clothes
helps a lot without problems with fading.

RFM

Date: 10 Sep 2006 20:28:30
From: TonyKiz
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

For my wicking biking clothes, I use OxyClean and regular laundry detergent,
wash them in warm water, and hang-dry them. Clean, no stink, no damage to
fabric.

"Fritz M" <nospam@masoner.net > wrote in message
news:1157749823.739112.136190@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Fred wrote:
>
> > Polypropolene is much better than polyester - particularly where smell
is
> > concerned.
>
> Polypro is infamous for its stink. That's why everybody has moved to
> polyester.
>
> That said, I have a problem with stink in my polyester shirts and
> jerseys also. Some people use borax to help with it. I've found that
> about a 1/4 cup chlorine bleach bleach added to my cycling clothes
> helps a lot without problems with fading.
>
> RFM
>

Date: 09 Sep 2006 16:00:57
From: Fred
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

"Fritz M" <nospam@masoner.net > wrote in message
news:1157749823.739112.136190@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Fred wrote:
>
>> Polypropolene is much better than polyester - particularly where smell is
>> concerned.
>
> Polypro is infamous for its stink. That's why everybody has moved to
> polyester.
>

They have? Here in New Zealand where alpine tramping (hiking/climbing) is
popular, polyprop is a must. Beats polypropolene hands down including the
smell problem. It's fine even after several days in the bush. Buy a good
brand. There are some junk brands that do stink (and shrivel up when
washed). Only disadvantage I've found is they feel like they are burning
your skin if worn in strong sun. The best thing to avoid smell is merino
wool such as Icebreaker brand. http://www.icebreaker.com/home.aspx It's
expensive - but long life.

Date: 09 Sep 2006 21:54:05
From: Andrew Price
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:00:57 +1200, "Fred" <fred@parachute.uk.master >
wrote:

>> Polypro is infamous for its stink. That's why everybody has moved to
>> polyester.
>
>They have? Here in New Zealand where alpine tramping (hiking/climbing) is
>popular, polyprop is a must. Beats polypropolene hands down including the
>smell problem.

Did you mean to write "beats *polyester*"?

Date: 10 Sep 2006 09:31:56
From: Fred
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

"Andrew Price" <ajprice@free.fr > wrote in message
news:ht66g21c8j2hifoqhpcb2bpdpg0chr56pe@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:00:57 +1200, "Fred" <fred@parachute.uk.master>
> wrote:
>
>>> Polypro is infamous for its stink. That's why everybody has moved to
>>> polyester.
>>
>>They have? Here in New Zealand where alpine tramping (hiking/climbing) is
>>popular, polyprop is a must. Beats polypropolene hands down including the
>>smell problem.
>
> Did you mean to write "beats *polyester*"?

Yes - sorry.

Date: 10 Sep 2006 09:28:35
From: Fred
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

Date: 09 Sep 2006 08:07:04
From: Fred
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

Date: 08 Sep 2006 07:40:29
From: Buck
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

Earthstick wrote:
> Despite the claims that polyester is 'high wicking' and 'breathable' I
> dont think its a very good material. It cant be washed at high enough
> temperatures to kill bacteria and it smells. The polypropylene base
> layers by HH seem to be better but why dont you get teeshirts made with
> this? Anyone have a solution?

I have to wonder why you are having so much trouble. I have several
sets of cycling gear that are used and washed every week. They sit
around in a basket awaiting wash day and sometimes get smelly. But in a
single day of use, simply hanging them to dry after riding in to work
removes the humidity enough to stop bacterial growth. They are fine for
the trip home in the afternoon.

A simple wash in the machine with a good detergent and cold water
cleans them well enough to eliminate bacteria. Soaps and detergents are
designed to do that. Other agents really aren't necessary, whether you
are talking about really hot water or anti-bacterial ingredients soap.

Do be cautious in your choice of detergent. Some detergents contain
fabric softeners which can interfere with the wicking properties of
some fabrics. The same is true of dryer sheets.

Some of my shorts and shirts are have suffered through this routine of
nearly weekly wear and washing for over four years. They have outlasted
many of my regular work clothes and certainly my cotten tees.

I can't say anything about polypropylene base layers by HH. Care to
provide a link?

-Buck

Date: 08 Sep 2006 09:18:10
From: Joshua Putnam
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

In article <1157726429.897549.123830@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
bicyclebuck@gmail.com says...
> Earthstick wrote:
> > Despite the claims that polyester is 'high wicking' and 'breathable' I
> > dont think its a very good material. It cant be washed at high enough
> > temperatures to kill bacteria and it smells. The polypropylene base
> > layers by HH seem to be better but why dont you get teeshirts made with
> > this? Anyone have a solution?

I used to see more polypro T-shirts around, even used to have some HH
polypro cycling jerseys. But these days I find modern polyester more
comfortable than polypro, and don't have any trouble with smell.

> A simple wash in the machine with a good detergent and cold water
> cleans them well enough to eliminate bacteria. Soaps and detergents are
> designed to do that. Other agents really aren't necessary, whether you
> are talking about really hot water or anti-bacterial ingredients soap.

When I was having some custom-sublimated jerseys done, I investigated
wash temperatures -- at least for the fabrics and dyes on my jerseys,
washing at 180F ("sanitary" setting on my washing machine) causes no
damage to the fabric and doesn't cause the sublimation to fade or bleed.
I don't usually wash them that hot, but it is handy when you need to get
out stubborn oil-based stains, or when the kids get crayon wax ground
into them.

> Do be cautious in your choice of detergent. Some detergents contain
> fabric softeners which can interfere with the wicking properties of
> some fabrics. The same is true of dryer sheets.

Fabric softeners always make clothes feel slimy to me, I'd avoid them
anyway.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/ >
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html >

Date: 08 Sep 2006 12:53:30
From: Pat Lamb
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

Joshua Putnam wrote:
> In article <1157726429.897549.123830@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
> bicyclebuck@gmail.com says...
>> A simple wash in the machine with a good detergent and cold water
>> cleans them well enough to eliminate bacteria. Soaps and detergents are
>> designed to do that. Other agents really aren't necessary, whether you
>> are talking about really hot water or anti-bacterial ingredients soap.
>
> When I was having some custom-sublimated jerseys done, I investigated
> wash temperatures -- at least for the fabrics and dyes on my jerseys,
> washing at 180F ("sanitary" setting on my washing machine) causes no
> damage to the fabric and doesn't cause the sublimation to fade or bleed.
> I don't usually wash them that hot, but it is handy when you need to get
> out stubborn oil-based stains, or when the kids get crayon wax ground
> into them.

Do you really wash clothes that hot? and if so, how high is your water
heater set?? Mine's set around 120F, based on recommendations to keep
water at or below that to avoid scalding.

Pat

Date: 09 Sep 2006 13:39:12
From: Joshua Putnam
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

In article <4mdp0qF5p6qfU2@individual.net >, pdl678NOSPAM@comcast.net
says...
> Joshua Putnam wrote:

> > When I was having some custom-sublimated jerseys done, I investigated
> > wash temperatures -- at least for the fabrics and dyes on my jerseys,
> > washing at 180F ("sanitary" setting on my washing machine) causes no
> > damage to the fabric and doesn't cause the sublimation to fade or bleed.
> > I don't usually wash them that hot, but it is handy when you need to get
> > out stubborn oil-based stains, or when the kids get crayon wax ground
> > into them.
>
> Do you really wash clothes that hot? and if so, how high is your water
> heater set?? Mine's set around 120F, based on recommendations to keep
> water at or below that to avoid scalding.

My water heater is at 120F. On the "sanitary" setting, the washing
machine heats the wash water to 180F -- it's intended for sanitary use,
e.g. diapers, bedding, towels, etc.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/ >
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html >

Date: 09 Sep 2006 20:55:55
From:
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

Joshua Putnam writes:

>>> When I was having some custom-sublimated jerseys done, I
>>> investigated wash temperatures -- at least for the fabrics and
>>> dyes on my jerseys, washing at 180F ("sanitary" setting on my
>>> washing machine) causes no damage to the fabric and doesn't cause
>>> the sublimation to fade or bleed. I don't usually wash them that
>>> hot, but it is handy when you need to get out stubborn oil-based
>>> stains, or when the kids get crayon wax ground into them.

>> Do you really wash clothes that hot? and if so, how high is your
>> water heater set?? Mine's set around 120F, based on
>> recommendations to keep water at or below that to avoid scalding.

> My water heater is at 120F. On the "sanitary" setting, the washing
> machine heats the wash water to 180F -- it's intended for sanitary
> use, e.g. diapers, bedding, towels, etc.

It's a good idea to heat water only so hot that you can shower turning
on only the hot water faucet and not "dumb-down" hot water that was
overheated. Cooling off hot water with cold is a waste of energy. Of
course, if you have a volume control knob and a thermostat knob on the
shower, you can never tell how much you are wasting. That's modern.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 11 Sep 2006 00:34:51
From: Norman Yarvin
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

In article <45032a5b$0$34529$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >, Jobst Brandt wrote:

>It's a good idea to heat water only so hot that you can shower turning
>on only the hot water faucet and not "dumb-down" hot water that was
>overheated. Cooling off hot water with cold is a waste of energy.

It would be, if water were heated in a thermodynamically efficient way
(such as by a heat pump). But since hardly anybody does that, in
practice it is not a waste of energy. If you heat water with electrical
resistance heat, then mixing hot water with cold is energy-neutral: it
takes just as much electricity to heat the larger volume of water to the
lower temperature as it does to heat the smaller volume of water to the
higher temperature. The same is almost true if the water is heated with
natural gas: the flame temperature is so much higher than the water
temperature that it makes very little difference to efficiency how hot
the water is heated. A given amount of gas gives you about the same
product of temperature rise multiplied by volume of water heated,
whatever the temperature rise (within the usual limits for domestic hot
water).

Where you lose, with hotter water, is that the hot water tank, if
maintained at a higher temperature, requires more energy to keep it hot,
since there is more thermal leakage from the hot water tank. But that
doesn't depend on how much hot water you use; and it can be remedied by
insulating the hot water system better. In exchange, a hotter tank has a
larger quantity of stored heat, so that you are less likely to run out of
hot water. Also, a hotter system is closer to sterile; the Legionnaire's
disease bacterium has recently been found growing in hot water systems
run at below 140 degrees F.

--
Norman Yarvin http://yarchive.net

Date: 09 Sep 2006 19:06:24
From: Joshua Putnam
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

In article <45032a5b$0$34529$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org says...
> Joshua Putnam writes:
>
> >>> When I was having some custom-sublimated jerseys done, I
> >>> investigated wash temperatures -- at least for the fabrics and
> >>> dyes on my jerseys, washing at 180F ("sanitary" setting on my
> >>> washing machine) causes no damage to the fabric and doesn't cause
> >>> the sublimation to fade or bleed. I don't usually wash them that
> >>> hot, but it is handy when you need to get out stubborn oil-based
> >>> stains, or when the kids get crayon wax ground into them.
>
> >> Do you really wash clothes that hot? and if so, how high is your
> >> water heater set?? Mine's set around 120F, based on
> >> recommendations to keep water at or below that to avoid scalding.
>
> > My water heater is at 120F. On the "sanitary" setting, the washing
> > machine heats the wash water to 180F -- it's intended for sanitary
> > use, e.g. diapers, bedding, towels, etc.
>
> It's a good idea to heat water only so hot that you can shower turning
> on only the hot water faucet and not "dumb-down" hot water that was
> overheated. Cooling off hot water with cold is a waste of energy. Of
> course, if you have a volume control knob and a thermostat knob on the
> shower, you can never tell how much you are wasting. That's modern.

If showering is the highest-temperature use for your water, and if you
don't need a higher volume of hot water than your water heater can
supply at that temperature, then your system makes sense. By setting
the water heater at 120F, it can supply hotter water for other uses, and
it can run the shower and the laundry at the same time. (The output
flow of my water heater is the same at 100F as it is at 120F, at least
with the input temperatures we have around here.)

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/ >
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html >

Date: 10 Sep 2006 09:59:45
From: Andrew Price
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 19:06:24 -0700, Joshua Putnam <josh@phred.org >
wrote:

>> It's a good idea to heat water only so hot that you can shower turning
>> on only the hot water faucet and not "dumb-down" hot water that was
>> overheated. Cooling off hot water with cold is a waste of energy. Of
>> course, if you have a volume control knob and a thermostat knob on the
>> shower, you can never tell how much you are wasting. That's modern.
>
>If showering is the highest-temperature use for your water, and if you
>don't need a higher volume of hot water than your water heater can
>supply at that temperature, then your system makes sense. By setting
>the water heater at 120F, it can supply hotter water for other uses, and
>it can run the shower and the laundry at the same time.

I rather just use a washing machine which heats its own water, to the
exact temperature it needs, and only when it needs it (as they all do
in Europe).

Date: 10 Sep 2006 08:42:52
From: Artoi
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

In article <0dh7g29dmgddnrkn9umsi4du40vu8qfc9i@4ax.com >,
Andrew Price <ajprice@free.fr > wrote:

> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 19:06:24 -0700, Joshua Putnam <josh@phred.org>
> wrote:
>
> >> It's a good idea to heat water only so hot that you can shower turning
> >> on only the hot water faucet and not "dumb-down" hot water that was
> >> overheated. Cooling off hot water with cold is a waste of energy. Of
> >> course, if you have a volume control knob and a thermostat knob on the
> >> shower, you can never tell how much you are wasting. That's modern.
> >
> >If showering is the highest-temperature use for your water, and if you
> >don't need a higher volume of hot water than your water heater can
> >supply at that temperature, then your system makes sense. By setting
> >the water heater at 120F, it can supply hotter water for other uses, and
> >it can run the shower and the laundry at the same time.
>
> I rather just use a washing machine which heats its own water, to the
> exact temperature it needs, and only when it needs it (as they all do
> in Europe).

Or just use cold water specific detergent. A recent test conducted by a
consumer group concluded that this cold water detergent for front
loading washing machine performed better at room temp than other
detergents' washes at higher temperatures. And all detergents these days
have agents that I don't think many bacteria can survive in. Finally,
use solar power to dry the gear... UV kills bacteria. :)
--

Date: 08 Sep 2006 15:02:00
From: Claire Petersky
Subject: Re: Alternative to polyester teeshirts

"Buck" <bicyclebuck@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1157726429.897549.123830@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

> A simple wash in the machine with a good detergent and cold water
> cleans them well enough to eliminate bacteria. Soaps and detergents are
> designed to do that. Other agents really aren't necessary, whether you
> are talking about really hot water or anti-bacterial ingredients soap.

I agree with Buck, here. I can simply wash them in standard detergent and
they're fine. If my husband has put a powerful stink in them, a little
Febreze seems to take care of that.

> Do be cautious in your choice of detergent. Some detergents contain
> fabric softeners which can interfere with the wicking properties of
> some fabrics. The same is true of dryer sheets.

Luckily, I live where the water is naturally soft. We don't use dryer
sheets.

> Some of my shorts and shirts are have suffered through this routine of
> nearly weekly wear and washing for over four years. They have outlasted
> many of my regular work clothes and certainly my cotten tees.

If you throw your shorts in the dryer, eventually the elastic breaks down.
It's up to you to decide which is the greater inconvenience -- shorter life
or hanging up to dry.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky