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Main
Date: 20 Oct 2006 16:26:19
From: coast rider
Subject: Aluminum frame cracks
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I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
with aluminum frames?
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Date: 28 Oct 2006 11:43:04
From: peter
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
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SMS wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > Aluminum frames are cheaper to make and easier to sell; how can a bike
> > maker resist?
>
> Well cheaper to make anyway. They enable a lighter, but less-durable
> bicycle at the same price point.
Depends on the design tradeoff between weight and durability. If
designed for the same or even slightly less durability then the
aluminum frame can be substantially lighter. But it can also be
designed for greater durability and still be a little lighter than
steel.
Personally I've had several steel frames fail and my current aluminum
frame has more miles than any of the steel frames managed to achieve.
But premature failures are clearly possible in any material.
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Date: 31 Oct 2006 15:46:07
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
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peter wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>>
>>> Aluminum frames are cheaper to make and easier to sell; how can a bike
>>> maker resist?
>> Well cheaper to make anyway. They enable a lighter, but less-durable
>> bicycle at the same price point.
>
> Depends on the design tradeoff between weight and durability. If
> designed for the same or even slightly less durability then the
> aluminum frame can be substantially lighter. But it can also be
> designed for greater durability and still be a little lighter than
> steel.
>
> Personally I've had several steel frames fail and my current aluminum
> frame has more miles than any of the steel frames managed to achieve.
> But premature failures are clearly possible in any material.
>
These durability criticisms are from a misunderstanding of materials.
Typical claims are made for steel having no "fatigue limit", but that's
not true for the steels of interest.
The other claim is that lugged frames are inherently stronger than
welded or brazed, which is also false, lugs are great stress concentrators.
Lugged steel frames are just a fashion statement.
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Date: 31 Oct 2006 16:37:49
From: Chris Neary
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
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>Typical claims are made for steel having no "fatigue limit", but that's
>not true for the steels of interest.
Cite please.
Chris Neary
diabloridr@tcsn.net
"Information, usually seen as the precondition of debate,
is better understood as its by-product." - Christopher Lasch
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Date: 01 Nov 2006 15:41:54
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
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Chris Neary wrote:
>
>> Typical claims are made for steel having no "fatigue limit", but that's
>> not true for the steels of interest.
>
> Cite please.
>
>
>
> Chris Neary
> diabloridr@tcsn.net
>
> "Information, usually seen as the precondition of debate,
> is better understood as its by-product." - Christopher Lasch
This really belongs in .tech, but...
I have seen several references stating that "no fatigue limit" does not
typically apply to high-strength steel alloys. The only one I can find
now is:
From:
<http://users.wpi.edu/~cfurlong/me3320/lect13/Lect13.pdf >
"Materials with a “knee” in the S-N curve:
Many low-strength carbon and alloy steels
Some stainless steels
Irons
Molybdenum
Titanium, and some polymers
Knee typically appears at nearly 106 cycles
Endurance limit at 106 cycles is typically used
Material without a “knee” in the S-N curve:
Aluminum, magnesium, copper
Nickel alloys
Some stainless steels
High-strength carbon and alloy steels
Fatigue strength at 5×108 cycles is typically used"
On a related issue (fatigue from defects):
From:
<http://www.kuleuven.ac.be/bwk/materials/Teaching/master/wg12/l0200.htm#SEC_6_1 >
"For real life components, the effects of notches, surface roughness and
corrosion reduce the fatigue strength, the effects being strongest for
the higher strength materials."
And
"Corrosion in fresh or salt water can have a very detrimental effect on
the fatigue strength of engineering materials. Even distilled water may
reduce the high-cycle fatigue strength to less than two thirds of its
value in dry air.
Figure 27 schematically shows typical S-N curves for the effect of
corrosion on unnotched steel specimens. Precorrosion, prior to fatigue
testing introduces notch-like pits that act as stress raisers. The
synergistic nature of corrosion fatigue is illustrated in the figure by
the drastic lower fatigue strength which is obtained when corrosion and
fatigue cycling act simultaneously."
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Date: 27 Oct 2006 07:41:27
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
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SMS wrote:
> coast rider wrote:
>
> > Mike,
> > It's definitely a fatigue crack all the way through the dropout. Fuji
> > is sending a new frame. The bike has 8000 miles on it.
>
> This is a common problem with aluminum frames.
Given the current crop of bicycle frames, that would mean it's a common
problem in bicycles. I don't think it is all that common, do you?
> It's too bad that Fuji
> has discontinued most of their cromolly frames. Only their touring
> bicycle still is steel, as is the touring bicycle from Trek.
Aluminum frames are cheaper to make and easier to sell; how can a bike
maker resist?
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Date: 28 Oct 2006 08:43:26
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
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Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> Aluminum frames are cheaper to make and easier to sell; how can a bike
> maker resist?
Well cheaper to make anyway. They enable a lighter, but less-durable
bicycle at the same price point. Yet part of the reason is the economy
of scale. That $8 aluminum frame would cost about $15 if made in
chomolloy steel in the same quantities. Sadly, once one manufacturer
decontents, the rest have to follow.
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Date: 28 Oct 2006 13:46:16
From: Chris Neary
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
>Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
>> Aluminum frames are cheaper to make and easier to sell; how can a bike
>> maker resist?
>
>Well cheaper to make anyway. They enable a lighter, but less-durable
>bicycle at the same price point. Yet part of the reason is the economy
>of scale. That $8 aluminum frame would cost about $15 if made in
>chomolloy steel in the same quantities. Sadly, once one manufacturer
>decontents, the rest have to follow.
A manufacturer can't successfully "decontent" without willing buyers.
Chris Neary
diabloridr@tcsn.net
"Prize the doubt, low kinds exist without"
- Inscription at Ramsmeyer Hall, Ohio State University
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Date: 28 Oct 2006 20:41:36
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
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Chris Neary wrote:
>> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>>
>>> Aluminum frames are cheaper to make and easier to sell; how can a bike
>>> maker resist?
>> Well cheaper to make anyway. They enable a lighter, but less-durable
>> bicycle at the same price point. Yet part of the reason is the economy
>> of scale. That $8 aluminum frame would cost about $15 if made in
>> chomolloy steel in the same quantities. Sadly, once one manufacturer
>> decontents, the rest have to follow.
>
> A manufacturer can't successfully "decontent" without willing buyers.
Sure they can, because they create willing buyers by eliminating any
other choices at specific price points.
Chromolly steel bicycles have become a high-end, niche product, rather
than a mainstream product, as all the mass ket manufacturers are in a
race to the bottom.
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Date: 29 Oct 2006 03:08:40
From: Luke
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
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In article <454422fd$0$88634$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >, SMS
<scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> > A manufacturer can't successfully "decontent" without willing buyers.
>
> Sure they can, because they create willing buyers by eliminating any
> other choices at specific price points.
Or perhaps they just create unwilling buyers?
>
> Chromolly steel bicycles have become a high-end, niche product, rather
> than a mainstream product, as all the mass ket manufacturers are in a
> race to the bottom.
Not necessarily so. Surly's (CroMo) offerings are aimed at a budget
conscious pragmatic ket.
Luke
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Date: 30 Oct 2006 09:16:01
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
Luke wrote:
>> Chromolly steel bicycles have become a high-end, niche product, rather
>> than a mainstream product, as all the mass ket manufacturers are in a
>> race to the bottom.
>
> Not necessarily so. Surly's (CroMo) offerings are aimed at a budget
> conscious pragmatic ket.
True, but I said "mass ket." An $8 aluminum frame, versus a $15
Chromolloy steel frame, doesn't mean that the final product is $7 less,
it means $7 x however many million bicycles are sold per year, in
additional profit.
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Date: 31 Oct 2006 15:40:16
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
SMS wrote:
> Luke wrote:
>
>>> Chromolly steel bicycles have become a high-end, niche product,
>>> rather than a mainstream product, as all the mass ket
>>> manufacturers are in a race to the bottom.
>>
>> Not necessarily so. Surly's (CroMo) offerings are aimed at a budget
>> conscious pragmatic ket.
>
> True, but I said "mass ket." An $8 aluminum frame, versus a $15
> Chromolloy steel frame, doesn't mean that the final product is $7 less,
> it means $7 x however many million bicycles are sold per year, in
> additional profit.
Where do you get your numbers? I don't understand why aluminum frames
would be cheaper to make than steel.
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Date: 01 Nov 2006 13:16:54
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
Peter Cole wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> Luke wrote:
>>
>>>> Chromolly steel bicycles have become a high-end, niche product,
>>>> rather than a mainstream product, as all the mass ket
>>>> manufacturers are in a race to the bottom.
>>>
>>> Not necessarily so. Surly's (CroMo) offerings are aimed at a budget
>>> conscious pragmatic ket.
>>
>> True, but I said "mass ket." An $8 aluminum frame, versus a $15
>> Chromolloy steel frame, doesn't mean that the final product is $7
>> less, it means $7 x however many million bicycles are sold per year,
>> in additional profit.
>
> Where do you get your numbers? I don't understand why aluminum frames
> would be cheaper to make than steel.
Because aluminum is much cheaper than chromolloy steel.
The $8 number comes from Sheldon Brown. the $15 number IIRC, was what a
Specialized guy who I sat next to on the way to Taiwan for the Taipei
International Cycle Show.
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Date: 02 Nov 2006 07:19:27
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
SMS wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
>> SMS wrote:
>>> Luke wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Chromolly steel bicycles have become a high-end, niche product,
>>>>> rather than a mainstream product, as all the mass ket
>>>>> manufacturers are in a race to the bottom.
>>>>
>>>> Not necessarily so. Surly's (CroMo) offerings are aimed at a budget
>>>> conscious pragmatic ket.
>>>
>>> True, but I said "mass ket." An $8 aluminum frame, versus a $15
>>> Chromolloy steel frame, doesn't mean that the final product is $7
>>> less, it means $7 x however many million bicycles are sold per year,
>>> in additional profit.
>>
>> Where do you get your numbers? I don't understand why aluminum frames
>> would be cheaper to make than steel.
>
> Because aluminum is much cheaper than chromolloy steel.
>
> The $8 number comes from Sheldon Brown. the $15 number IIRC, was what a
> Specialized guy who I sat next to on the way to Taiwan for the Taipei
> International Cycle Show.
I don't think aluminum is cheaper than alloy steel.
From aircraftspruce.com:
1" 4130 90 ksi seamless tube .035" wall = $2.50/ft
1" 6061 T6 tube .095" wall = $2.85/ft
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Date: 29 Oct 2006 14:47:11
From: Victor Kan
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
Luke wrote:
> In article <454422fd$0$88634$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>Chromolly steel bicycles have become a high-end, niche product, rather
>>than a mainstream product, as all the mass ket manufacturers are in a
>>race to the bottom.
> Not necessarily so. Surly's (CroMo) offerings are aimed at a budget
> conscious pragmatic ket.
There are still a few, budget concious steel bike models (including one
for $500 shipped) at one of the "we bought up some old brand names"
vendors, though fewer than earlier this year. They still have their
higher end 853 steel bike.
--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.
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Date: 28 Oct 2006 22:00:38
From: Chris Neary
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
>>> Well cheaper to make anyway. They enable a lighter, but less-durable
>>> bicycle at the same price point. Yet part of the reason is the economy
>>> of scale. That $8 aluminum frame would cost about $15 if made in
>>> chomolloy steel in the same quantities. Sadly, once one manufacturer
>>> decontents, the rest have to follow.
>>
>> A manufacturer can't successfully "decontent" without willing buyers.
>
>Sure they can, because they create willing buyers by eliminating any
>other choices at specific price points.
The only reason those choices disappear is because the willing buyers prefer
the "decontented" product choice.
Otherwise other manufacturers will move to fill the unmet demand and
recreate the choice (and make a few $$$)
Chris Neary
diabloridr@tcsn.net
"We will teach our twisted speech to the young believers"
-- The Clash
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Date: 30 Oct 2006 09:27:50
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
Chris Neary wrote:
>>>> Well cheaper to make anyway. They enable a lighter, but less-durable
>>>> bicycle at the same price point. Yet part of the reason is the economy
>>>> of scale. That $8 aluminum frame would cost about $15 if made in
>>>> chomolloy steel in the same quantities. Sadly, once one manufacturer
>>>> decontents, the rest have to follow.
>>> A manufacturer can't successfully "decontent" without willing buyers.
>> Sure they can, because they create willing buyers by eliminating any
>> other choices at specific price points.
>
> The only reason those choices disappear is because the willing buyers prefer
> the "decontented" product choice.
The buyers don't understand the difference. The manufacturer creates
reasons why the decontented product is somehow better. You've seen it
time and again in many industries. The automotive industry is famous for
it, from going to 2.5 MPH bumpers from 5 MPH bumpers, to eliminating
structural rain gutters, vent windows,
> Otherwise other manufacturers will move to fill the unmet demand and
> recreate the choice (and make a few $$$)
Some have, but they are niche manufacturers that don't have the
economies of scale of Trek or Specialized, who run to a factory in China
to produce as cheaply as possible.
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Date: 30 Oct 2006 09:34:32
From: Chris Neary
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
>> The only reason those choices disappear is because the willing buyers prefer
>> the "decontented" product choice.
>
>The buyers don't understand the difference.
Translation: SMS believes everyone (except him) is stupid.
>> Otherwise other manufacturers will move to fill the unmet demand and
>> recreate the choice (and make a few $$$)
>
>Some have, but they are niche manufacturers that don't have the
>economies of scale of Trek or Specialized, who run to a factory in China
>to produce as cheaply as possible.
The factory in China isn't picky who they work for, why not someone wishing
to build "contented" product?
Chris Neary
diabloridr@tcsn.net
"If you think I'm so controlling,
why do you follow me around?" - The Offspring
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Date: 26 Oct 2006 22:42:39
From: coast rider
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
> > fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
> > the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
> > with aluminum frames?
>
> You could have that issue with a frame made out of any material; it's hardly
> something unique to aluminum. In general, if you rode a steel frame long
> enough to fail, it would do so in one of two places. Either the
> dropout/chainstay connection on the derailleur side, or a tear in the
> downtube a bit below the front derailleur, on the side opposite the
> chainring.
>
> I'm assuming that what you're seeing is actually a crack and not just a hole
> in the junction that was there from the beginning. In any event, you should
> bring it back in to the dealer so they can assess what's going on and
> process it as a warranty if appropriate.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> "coast rider" <leucadia2@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1161386779.333164.327230@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
> > fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
> > the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
> > with aluminum frames?
> >
Mike,
It's definitely a fatigue crack all the way through the dropout. Fuji
is sending a new frame. The bike has 8000 miles on it.
Kurt
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Date: 27 Oct 2006 06:01:52
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
coast rider wrote:
> Mike,
> It's definitely a fatigue crack all the way through the dropout. Fuji
> is sending a new frame. The bike has 8000 miles on it.
This is a common problem with aluminum frames. It's too bad that Fuji
has discontinued most of their cromolly frames. Only their touring
bicycle still is steel, as is the touring bicycle from Trek.
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Date: 27 Oct 2006 11:04:40
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> coast rider wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>> It's definitely a fatigue crack all the way through the dropout. Fuji
>> is sending a new frame. The bike has 8000 miles on it.
>
> This is a common problem with <del>aluminum</del> *bicycle* frames.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There, I fixed that for you. Of course you know that cracking of
the dropout is a common problem in all bike frames. I've had it happen,
and I know multiple *steel* bike owners who've had it happen.
> It's too bad that Fuji has discontinued most of their cromolly frames. Only
> their touring bicycle still is steel, as is the touring bicycle from Trek.
Meh, I ride all steel bikes, but I'm not a fanatic about it. It just
works out that sort of bikes I'm interested aren't generally made in
Aluminum, or I'm doing salvage.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
Also, the Scots are said to have invented golf. Then they had
to invent Scotch whiskey to take away the pain and frustration.
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Date: 27 Oct 2006 12:46:26
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:04:40 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu >
wrote, in part:
\
>Meh, I ride all steel bikes, but I'm not a fanatic about it. It just
>works out that sort of bikes I'm interested aren't generally made in
>Aluminum, or I'm doing salvage.
Extruded aluminium is worth about $0.84 per pound these days.
Do the world a favour and scrap all those aluminium frames you
salvage.
--
zk
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Date: 27 Oct 2006 13:32:04
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:04:40 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu>
> wrote, in part:
>>Meh, I ride all steel bikes, but I'm not a fanatic about it. It just
>>works out that sort of bikes I'm interested aren't generally made in
>>Aluminum, or I'm doing salvage.
>
> Extruded aluminium is worth about $0.84 per pound these days.
> Do the world a favour and scrap all those aluminium frames you
> salvage.
All the bikes I've salvaged have been steel. I don't think I've seen
any aluminum ones out by the curb yet.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"......... but only I can see them!"
-Gnat's 1st law of Identifying crazy people
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Date: 27 Oct 2006 14:18:32
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:32:04 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu >
wrote:
>Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:04:40 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu>
>> wrote, in part:
>
>>>Meh, I ride all steel bikes, but I'm not a fanatic about it. It just
>>>works out that sort of bikes I'm interested aren't generally made in
>>>Aluminum, or I'm doing salvage.
>>
>> Extruded aluminium is worth about $0.84 per pound these days.
>> Do the world a favour and scrap all those aluminium frames you
>> salvage.
>
>All the bikes I've salvaged have been steel. I don't think I've seen
>any aluminum ones out by the curb yet.
I've found two Al frames so far. They're awaiting their fitting
destiny with a smelter. The geometry is for a mush fork.
Utterly useless.
My latest find was a high-ten Norco Sekine cruiser from the mid '90s.
It was begging to be chopped so I obliged by extending the fork 4"
and sticking in a 20" front wheel. It's now set up as a 3 speed with
the same seat/handlebar offset as my road bikes half-way to the
drops. Not exactly chopper style but more like a "drag bike". There's
no room in my stable for a "Dr. Seuss bike".
The stripped, polished and clear coated bare metal frame has been
mistaken for <spit > aluminium </spit>.
--
zk
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Date: 26 Oct 2006 22:39:13
From: coast rider
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
> > fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
> > the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
> > with aluminum frames?
>
> You could have that issue with a frame made out of any material; it's hardly
> something unique to aluminum. In general, if you rode a steel frame long
> enough to fail, it would do so in one of two places. Either the
> dropout/chainstay connection on the derailleur side, or a tear in the
> downtube a bit below the front derailleur, on the side opposite the
> chainring.
>
> I'm assuming that what you're seeing is actually a crack and not just a hole
> in the junction that was there from the beginning. In any event, you should
> bring it back in to the dealer so they can assess what's going on and
> process it as a warranty if appropriate.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> "coast rider" <leucadia2@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1161386779.333164.327230@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
> > fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
> > the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
> > with aluminum frames?
> >
|
| |
Date: 23 Oct 2006 06:59:31
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >> I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
> >> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
> >> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
> >> with aluminum frames?
> >
> > It's a common problem with aluminum frames.
> >
> > Read "http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_framematerials.html"
>
> It is not a problem with aluminum frames; it's a problem with frames made of
> any material when not properly designed or improperly built. To put your
> faith into an article where, for the favored material of the author, it
> lists "Maybe none" as the downside to steel... that should be the first
> indication that this might not be the best place to look for answers.
>
IMO, asking Riv for an opinion on aluminum is as silly as asking
Cannondale about steel.
> Failures in steel frames, when steel was the norm, were not infrequent. It
> is far from being a perfect material for a bicycle frame. Well, that's not
> quite right. Any material can be the right material, if used properly.
>
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Date: 24 Oct 2006 20:04:56
From: Terry Morse
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
"Ozark Bicycle" wrote:
> IMO, asking Riv for an opinion on aluminum is as silly as asking
> Cannondale about steel.
Or as silly as asking Jobst about carbon fiber.
(this ought to be a r.b.t. topic, no?)
--
terry morse - Undiscovered Country Tours - http://udctours.com/
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Date: 22 Oct 2006 13:12:08
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
coast rider wrote:
> I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
> with aluminum frames?
It's a common problem with aluminum frames.
Read "http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_framematerials.html"
|
| | |
Date: 23 Oct 2006 03:14:07
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
>> I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
>> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
>> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
>> with aluminum frames?
>
> It's a common problem with aluminum frames.
>
> Read "http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_framematerials.html"
It is not a problem with aluminum frames; it's a problem with frames made of
any material when not properly designed or improperly built. To put your
faith into an article where, for the favored material of the author, it
lists "Maybe none" as the downside to steel... that should be the first
indication that this might not be the best place to look for answers.
Failures in steel frames, when steel was the norm, were not infrequent. It
is far from being a perfect material for a bicycle frame. Well, that's not
quite right. Any material can be the right material, if used properly.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote in message
news:453ba669$0$88631$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> coast rider wrote:
>> I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
>> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
>> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
>> with aluminum frames?
>
> It's a common problem with aluminum frames.
>
> Read "http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_framematerials.html"
>
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Oct 2006 05:28:56
From: Earl Bollinger
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
Why do you require people to login to your website
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com ?
If you are advertising something no one can see it.
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:3sW_g.15317$GR.11454@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>> I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
>>> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
>>> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
>>> with aluminum frames?
>>
>> It's a common problem with aluminum frames.
>>
>> Read "http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_framematerials.html"
>
> It is not a problem with aluminum frames; it's a problem with frames made
> of any material when not properly designed or improperly built. To put
> your faith into an article where, for the favored material of the author,
> it lists "Maybe none" as the downside to steel... that should be the first
> indication that this might not be the best place to look for answers.
>
> Failures in steel frames, when steel was the norm, were not infrequent. It
> is far from being a perfect material for a bicycle frame. Well, that's not
> quite right. Any material can be the right material, if used properly.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:453ba669$0$88631$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> coast rider wrote:
>>> I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
>>> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
>>> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
>>> with aluminum frames?
>>
>> It's a common problem with aluminum frames.
>>
>> Read "http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_framematerials.html"
>>
>
>
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Oct 2006 04:35:30
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
> Why do you require people to login to your website
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com ?
> If you are advertising something no one can see it.
Try www.ChainReaction.com for now. That still works.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Earl Bollinger" <earlwbollinger@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:ZNednRHb6p_4BKHYnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@comcast.com...
> Why do you require people to login to your website
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com ?
> If you are advertising something no one can see it.
>
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3sW_g.15317$GR.11454@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
>>>> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
>>>> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
>>>> with aluminum frames?
>>>
>>> It's a common problem with aluminum frames.
>>>
>>> Read "http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_framematerials.html"
>>
>> It is not a problem with aluminum frames; it's a problem with frames made
>> of any material when not properly designed or improperly built. To put
>> your faith into an article where, for the favored material of the author,
>> it lists "Maybe none" as the downside to steel... that should be the
>> first indication that this might not be the best place to look for
>> answers.
>>
>> Failures in steel frames, when steel was the norm, were not infrequent.
>> It is far from being a perfect material for a bicycle frame. Well, that's
>> not quite right. Any material can be the right material, if used
>> properly.
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>
>>
>> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:453ba669$0$88631$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>> coast rider wrote:
>>>> I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
>>>> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
>>>> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
>>>> with aluminum frames?
>>>
>>> It's a common problem with aluminum frames.
>>>
>>> Read "http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_framematerials.html"
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Oct 2006 04:24:35
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
> Why do you require people to login to your website
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com ?
> If you are advertising something no one can see it.
Grrrrr. Thanks for letting me know; looks like my website has a problem
again. I'll be changing service providers shortly; this is getting really,
really, really old.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Earl Bollinger" <earlwbollinger@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:ZNednRHb6p_4BKHYnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@comcast.com...
> Why do you require people to login to your website
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com ?
> If you are advertising something no one can see it.
>
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3sW_g.15317$GR.11454@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
>>>> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
>>>> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
>>>> with aluminum frames?
>>>
>>> It's a common problem with aluminum frames.
>>>
>>> Read "http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_framematerials.html"
>>
>> It is not a problem with aluminum frames; it's a problem with frames made
>> of any material when not properly designed or improperly built. To put
>> your faith into an article where, for the favored material of the author,
>> it lists "Maybe none" as the downside to steel... that should be the
>> first indication that this might not be the best place to look for
>> answers.
>>
>> Failures in steel frames, when steel was the norm, were not infrequent.
>> It is far from being a perfect material for a bicycle frame. Well, that's
>> not quite right. Any material can be the right material, if used
>> properly.
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>
>>
>> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:453ba669$0$88631$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>> coast rider wrote:
>>>> I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
>>>> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
>>>> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
>>>> with aluminum frames?
>>>
>>> It's a common problem with aluminum frames.
>>>
>>> Read "http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_framematerials.html"
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
|
| | | | | |
Date: 26 Oct 2006 03:28:21
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > wrote in message
news:7Ag%g.15645$GR.15470@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>> Why do you require people to login to your website
>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com ?
>> If you are advertising something no one can see it.
>
> Grrrrr. Thanks for letting me know; looks like my website has a problem
> again. I'll be changing service providers shortly; this is getting really,
> really, really old.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
So, even an old bicycle hand like you can learn something useful from a
newsgroup ;)
--
Mike Kruger
The slowest of the Greek philosopher-cyclists was Aristurtle.
Aristurtle's followers called themselves the Sloics.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 26 Oct 2006 06:36:42
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
> So, even an old bicycle hand like you can learn something useful from a
> newsgroup ;)
Frequently! My general rule of thumb is this- the more certain I feel I'm
right about something, the more likely it is I'm wrong. And I'm very often
right about that. Or is it wrong? Well I'm mixed up anyways, that can't be
denied! : >)
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Mike Kruger" <MikeKr@mouse-potato.com > wrote in message
news:pXV%g.21693$e66.2452@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote in message
> news:7Ag%g.15645$GR.15470@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>> Why do you require people to login to your website
>>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com ?
>>> If you are advertising something no one can see it.
>>
>> Grrrrr. Thanks for letting me know; looks like my website has a problem
>> again. I'll be changing service providers shortly; this is getting
>> really, really, really old.
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>>
>
> So, even an old bicycle hand like you can learn something useful from a
> newsgroup ;)
>
> --
> Mike Kruger
> The slowest of the Greek philosopher-cyclists was Aristurtle.
> Aristurtle's followers called themselves the Sloics.
>
|
| | |
Date: 22 Oct 2006 21:11:30
From: Chris Y.F.N.W.
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
Group: rec.bicycles.misc Date: Sun, Oct 22, 2006, 1:12pm (EDT-3) From:
scharf.steven@geemail.com (SMS)
>It's a common problem with aluminum
>frames.
>Read
>"http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_framematerials.html"
Aluminum does have a lower resistance to metal fatigue than steel. that
is a physical truth.
However using Rivendale as a source of "expert opinion" on anything not
dyed-in-the-wool-traditional is not going to be very convincing.
Remember, the company was started by a former CEO of Bridgestone's
bicycle manufacturing division here in the US.
Now, does anyone here really expect unbiased "research" results on an
untraditional anything from the retrogrouch leader of the world?
- -
Compliments of:
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
If you want to E-mail me use:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net
My website:
http://geocities.com/czcorner
|
| |
Date: 21 Oct 2006 01:02:53
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
>I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
> with aluminum frames?
You could have that issue with a frame made out of any material; it's hardly
something unique to aluminum. In general, if you rode a steel frame long
enough to fail, it would do so in one of two places. Either the
dropout/chainstay connection on the derailleur side, or a tear in the
downtube a bit below the front derailleur, on the side opposite the
chainring.
I'm assuming that what you're seeing is actually a crack and not just a hole
in the junction that was there from the beginning. In any event, you should
bring it back in to the dealer so they can assess what's going on and
process it as a warranty if appropriate.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"coast rider" <leucadia2@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1161386779.333164.327230@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I have a 2004 Fuji Professional road bike. It has an aluminum/carbon
> fiber frame. Last week I noticed a severe crack in the rear drop (where
> the rear axle connects to the frame). Has anyone else had this problem
> with aluminum frames?
>
|
| | |
Date: 21 Oct 2006 21:28:14
From: Gary Smiley
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
Mike - how long (or far) is "long enough to fail"?
I've got an 853 frame from 1999, with (I'm guessing) 15-20K miles. Should I
be worried?
- Gary
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > wrote in message
news:1le_g.16096$vJ2.12630@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
In general, if you rode a steel frame long
> enough to fail, it would do so in one of two places.
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Oct 2006 17:06:11
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Aluminum frame cracks
|
> Mike - how long (or far) is "long enough to fail"?
> I've got an 853 frame from 1999, with (I'm guessing) 15-20K miles. Should
> I be worried?
> - Gary
If built properly, it's got a long & useful life ahead of it. Generally
35-50k miles is where you see such things. Some frames go longer (sometimes
much longer), some less. The usual problem with an 853 (or other superlight
super-air-hardened steel alloy) tends to be from the use of rivnuts for the
bottle fittings. The tubes are so thin that a round hole for the rivnut
usually doesn't keep it from spinning, so they punch a squarish hole, which,
while it eliminates spinning, can cause tearns in the metal at the corners.
Aside from that, 853 (and the similar materials made elsewhere) are rather
amazing for how well they hold up, considering their weight. Far stronger
than much heavier steels (531, Columbus SL & SP) from earlier days.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Gary Smiley" <gasmiley@castnet.com > wrote in message
news:CoednVYtZOauVKfYnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Mike - how long (or far) is "long enough to fail"?
> I've got an 853 frame from 1999, with (I'm guessing) 15-20K miles. Should
> I be worried?
> - Gary
>
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote in message
> news:1le_g.16096$vJ2.12630@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
> In general, if you rode a steel frame long
>> enough to fail, it would do so in one of two places.
>
>
|
|
