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Main
Date: 17 Apr 2007 11:15:18
From: Bob in CT
Subject: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
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with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop well
enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only disk
brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than the
LeMond.
Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there are
touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing bike,
so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet stopping
ability of disks.
--
Bob in CT
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Date: 19 Apr 2007 07:53:31
From: merlinnme@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
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On Apr 17, 8:15 am, "Bob in CT" <ctvigge...@comcast.net > wrote:
> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop well
> enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only disk
> brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than the
> LeMond.
>
> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there are
> touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing bike,
> so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet stopping
> ability of disks.
>
> --
> Bob in CT
Have you thought of a cyclo-cross? I'm not sure, but they may be disk
brake compatible. Or maybe a set of ceramic-coated rims like the ones
Mavic makes. It would be cheaper to buy new wheels with the ceramic
rims and you could still use your racing bike with the preferred
geometry.
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Date: 19 Apr 2007 15:18:56
From: nash
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
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<merlinnme@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1176994411.902353.248670@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 17, 8:15 am, "Bob in CT" <ctvigge...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop well
>> enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only disk
>> brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than the
>> LeMond.
>>
>> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there
>> are
>> touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing bike,
>> so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet stopping
>> ability of disks.
>>
>> --
>> Bob in CT
>
> Have you thought of a cyclo-cross? I'm not sure, but they may be disk
> brake compatible. Or maybe a set of ceramic-coated rims like the ones
> Mavic makes. It would be cheaper to buy new wheels with the ceramic
> rims and you could still use your racing bike with the preferred
> geometry.
Why, are ceramic rims better at stopping? Or is it the wear factor. Does
not stop him from getting wet leaves clogged in the brake like a disc
anyway.
Norco VTR is an urban performance bike with discs at $685. Cyclo-cross at
Bicycletta looks an awful lot just like a race bike. Not much of a
difference eh?
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Date: 19 Apr 2007 14:22:42
From: nash
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
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"Bob in CT" <ctviggen.x@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:op.tqxonssu3plkkk@esq03.mfh.com...
> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop well
> enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only disk
> brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than the
> LeMond.
>
> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there are
> touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing bike,
> so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet stopping
> ability of disks.
>
> --
> Bob in CT
http://www.labicicletta.ca/bikes_tour.htm
Their bikes are disc brake ready. Really nice. Touring but look every bit
like a racer.
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Date: 19 Apr 2007 10:43:38
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
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nash wrote:
:: "Bob in CT" <ctviggen.x@comcast.net > wrote in message
:: news:op.tqxonssu3plkkk@esq03.mfh.com...
::: with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't
::: stop well enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike
::: (with only disk brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it
::: stops better than the LeMond.
:::
::: Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know
::: there are touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry
::: of a racing bike, so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with
::: the better wet stopping ability of disks.
:::
::: --
::: Bob in CT
::
::
:: http://www.labicicletta.ca/bikes_tour.htm
::
:: Their bikes are disc brake ready. Really nice. Touring but look
:: every bit like a racer.
Yes, these would be exactly what I think he's looking for....A road-bike
with the possibility of adding disc brakes. None of the other stuff that a
tourer would need need be added. The sport touring bike looks good.
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Date: 19 Apr 2007 06:25:12
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
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On Apr 17, 11:19 am, "Bob in CT" <ctvigge...@comcast.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:15:53 -0400, Roger Zoul <rogerzo...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Bob in CT wrote:
> > :: with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop
> > :: well enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with
> > :: only disk brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops
> > :: better than the LeMond.
> > ::
> > :: Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know
> > :: there are touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of
> > :: a racing bike, so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the
> > :: better wet stopping ability of disks.
>
> > What's a racing bike and what's a touring bike? I get confused when I
> > hear
> > those terms. When I think racing, I think extremely lightweight
> > components
> > and a rather aggressive riding position. Is that what you want? The
> > touring
> > bikes can have very similar make up, but sturdier components and a
> > slightly
> > not so aggressive riding position. At least, they do in my mind! :)
>
> > Also, do disc brakes really stop you better? I've heard arguments for
> > and
> > against.
>
> Well, I'm not huge into light weight parts (especially wheels), although I
> do like a more aggressive position. Having said that, perhaps there are
> touring bikes with good positions, but they tend to have a lot of stuff I
> don't want, like connections for panniers, "weird" positions for shifters,
> etc. As for whether disk brakes stop better, I can only give you my
> feelings, which is they do. I cannot stop my racing bike in the rain/wet
> on the steep downhills I ride. I can slow down, but cannot stop.
> Meanwhile, I can stop my mountain bike on the same road. Now, there could
> be some amount of involvement due to rubber with this, too, as the
> mountain bike certainly puts more rubber to the road. Also, the amount of
> sand/grit/leaves/etc. that gets onto the brakes is amazing on the racing
> bike. By contrast, there's nothing on my disk brakes.
>
> --
> Bob in CT
Are you asking about modifying an existing frame or whether or not a
builder can make you one?
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Date: 19 Apr 2007 06:24:24
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
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On Apr 18, 8:00 am, Curtis L. Russell <cur...@md-bicycling.org > wrote:
> On 18 Apr 2007 05:29:54 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo
>
> <p...@vecchios.com> wrote:
> >Balderdash. "True road race bike", what is that. Moots or Waterford
> >can make a light, race-type geometry with a disc brake tab that will
> >NOT kill the frame.
>
> Bullshit - that isn't the question. He is talking about converting his
> current bike and that is an entirely different issue.
I didn't get that from his posts at all...he is looking for a new
bike, not modifyimng his old one.
No one makes a
> road race frame sans disc brakes with a rear triangle beefed up to
> later take a disc brake. No one specs a front fork to drop in a front
> disc brake, although you are more likely to make good on that. And
> assuming that front or rear of a true road race bike has frame
> components that will take disc brakes without swapping out is just
> plain stupid.
Not what he is saying...maybe we ought to ask him. Convery=t an
existing frame-NO, have somebody like Moots or Waterford make a disc
compatible road frame-easy-
>
> You remind me of the 'expert' that told a friend of mine that all he
> had to do was add a couple of eyelets wrapped around the bottom of his
> rear triangle to add a rear rack to tour on his Colnago. In the middle
> of the first morning he hit a sharp bump and severed both sides of
> that frame. He got to look up close and personal at just how thin the
> tubing on a race frame is.
>
> Yeah, you can ask a custom frame builder to build a road race geometry
> with disc brakes. You probably can ask a semi-custom builder to add it
> to a standard model. And on a given occasion, there may be on the
> market a road race frame available with disc brakes. None has anything
> to do with retrofitting a current road race frame with disc brakes.
????
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 19 Apr 2007 20:36:30
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
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Qui si parla Campagnolo <peter@vecchios.com > wrote:
>On Apr 18, 8:00 am, Curtis L. Russell <cur...@md-bicycling.org> wrote:
>> On 18 Apr 2007 05:29:54 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo
>>
>> <p...@vecchios.com> wrote:
>> >Balderdash. "True road race bike", what is that. Moots or Waterford
>> >can make a light, race-type geometry with a disc brake tab that will
>> >NOT kill the frame.
>>
>> Bullshit - that isn't the question. He is talking about converting his
>> current bike and that is an entirely different issue.
>
>I didn't get that from his posts at all...he is looking for a new
>bike, not modifyimng his old one.
I didn't get the impression that the OP was in any way suggesting
doing a conversion on his current bike. So you're both right. It IS
an entirely different issue, but the OP never brought it up, making it
Curtis' post puzzling (at least to me).
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
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Date: 20 Apr 2007 08:49:41
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
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On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:36:30 -0700, Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com >
wrote:
>I didn't get the impression that the OP was in any way suggesting
>doing a conversion on his current bike. So you're both right. It IS
>an entirely different issue, but the OP never brought it up, making it
>Curtis' post puzzling (at least to me).
I may have been pulled that way by some of the thread - the OP's post
as quoted appears to fall on the side of new purchase. OTOH, since
admitting this is contrary to general rec. bicycle policy, the above
is off the record and I plan to defend my position to the last gasp of
the thread. To make it short and easy, this is where I bring up Hitler
and the Nazis.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 20 Apr 2007 11:34:14
From: Bob in CT
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:49:41 -0400, Curtis L. Russell
<curtis@md-bicycling.org > wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:36:30 -0700, Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I didn't get the impression that the OP was in any way suggesting
>> doing a conversion on his current bike. So you're both right. It IS
>> an entirely different issue, but the OP never brought it up, making it
>> Curtis' post puzzling (at least to me).
>
> I may have been pulled that way by some of the thread - the OP's post
> as quoted appears to fall on the side of new purchase. OTOH, since
> admitting this is contrary to general rec. bicycle policy, the above
> is off the record and I plan to defend my position to the last gasp of
> the thread. To make it short and easy, this is where I bring up Hitler
> and the Nazis.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...
Well, I was originally thinking of a new purchase, because I can always
use a bike for inside. HOwever, I also upgraded my mountain bike to front
disk, so perhaps an upgrade might be reasonable.
--
Bob in CT
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Date: 20 Apr 2007 10:54:04
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
"Bob in CT" <ctviggen.x@comcast.net > wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:49:41 -0400, Curtis L. Russell
><curtis@md-bicycling.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:36:30 -0700, Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't get the impression that the OP was in any way suggesting
>>> doing a conversion on his current bike. So you're both right. It IS
>>> an entirely different issue, but the OP never brought it up, making it
>>> Curtis' post puzzling (at least to me).
>>
>> I may have been pulled that way by some of the thread - the OP's post
>> as quoted appears to fall on the side of new purchase. OTOH, since
>> admitting this is contrary to general rec. bicycle policy, the above
>> is off the record and I plan to defend my position to the last gasp of
>> the thread. To make it short and easy, this is where I bring up Hitler
>> and the Nazis.
>
>Well, I was originally thinking of a new purchase, because I can always
>use a bike for inside. HOwever, I also upgraded my mountain bike to front
>disk, so perhaps an upgrade might be reasonable.
WOW... turns out the problem isn't that Curtis had a reading
comprehension brain cramp... seems that he's actually responding to
posts that wouldn't show up for days.
Curtis, I need to talk to you about the stock market when you get a
chance.... ;-)
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
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Date: 20 Apr 2007 08:07:41
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
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Curtis L. Russell <curtis@md-bicycling.org > wrote:
>On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:36:30 -0700, Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I didn't get the impression that the OP was in any way suggesting
>>doing a conversion on his current bike. So you're both right. It IS
>>an entirely different issue, but the OP never brought it up, making it
>>Curtis' post puzzling (at least to me).
>
>I may have been pulled that way by some of the thread - the OP's post
>as quoted appears to fall on the side of new purchase. OTOH, since
>admitting this is contrary to general rec. bicycle policy, the above
>is off the record and I plan to defend my position to the last gasp of
>the thread. To make it short and easy, this is where I bring up Hitler
>and the Nazis.
Well played, Curtis! Is this the right time to impugn your genetic
makeup and education, or is that in the next iteration?
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
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Date: 20 Apr 2007 12:01:18
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:07:41 -0700, Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com >
wrote:
>Curtis L. Russell <curtis@md-bicycling.org> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:36:30 -0700, Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I didn't get the impression that the OP was in any way suggesting
>>>doing a conversion on his current bike. So you're both right. It IS
>>>an entirely different issue, but the OP never brought it up, making it
>>>Curtis' post puzzling (at least to me).
>>
>>I may have been pulled that way by some of the thread - the OP's post
>>as quoted appears to fall on the side of new purchase. OTOH, since
>>admitting this is contrary to general rec. bicycle policy, the above
>>is off the record and I plan to defend my position to the last gasp of
>>the thread. To make it short and easy, this is where I bring up Hitler
>>and the Nazis.
>
>Well played, Curtis! Is this the right time to impugn your genetic
>makeup and education, or is that in the next iteration?
>
>Mark Hickey
>Habanero Cycles
>http://www.habcycles.com
>Home of the $795 ti frame
Uh, I'm not sure how long we're allowed to continue the thread anyway.
You better make it quick.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 18 Apr 2007 19:42:22
From: Jorg Lueke
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Apr 17, 4:15 pm, "Bob in CT" <ctvigge...@comcast.net > wrote:
> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop well
> enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only disk
> brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than the
> LeMond.
>
> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there are
> touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing bike,
> so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet stopping
> ability of disks.
>
> --
> Bob in CT
Something like the Trek Portland or is that not racy enough?
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Date: 18 Apr 2007 05:29:54
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Apr 17, 1:44 pm, Curtis L. Russell <cur...@md-bicycling.org > wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:02:22 -0400, "Bob in CT"
>
> <ctvigge...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >There may be tourers that have a geometry I'd like. The problem is that
> >they're really built for touring, which is something I won't do. I don't
> >need gussets for paniers, for instance. I'll never use them.
>
> The two lines of thought make little sense to me. You can't make disc
> brakes work on a true road race bike in the rear. The rear triangle
> simply is not designed to handle the forces applied in that manner.
Balderdash. "True road race bike", what is that. Moots or Waterford
can make a light, race-type geometry with a disc brake tab that will
NOT kill the frame.
If
> gussets bother you, what about the thicker, heavier front fork, the
> respoked wheel and the weight of the disc? And you still have a rim
> brake in the rear, even if that is the less important brake.
>
> I can come to a stop on some pretty steep hills using rim brakes, even
> with a load. Even with a trailer. And I watched a pro rider snap a
> chain on a wet downhill and still come to a full stop before exiting
> right over a stone wall. I'd check with a good bike shop or mechanic
> and take a shot at improving your rim brakes before going the disc
> route. Even the top of the line rim set-ups will cost you not much
> more than the time and effort that would go into the disc brake
> set-up, and it will leave you with the same bike in all essential
> areas.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 18 Apr 2007 09:00:16
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On 18 Apr 2007 05:29:54 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo
<peter@vecchios.com > wrote:
>Balderdash. "True road race bike", what is that. Moots or Waterford
>can make a light, race-type geometry with a disc brake tab that will
>NOT kill the frame.
Bullshit - that isn't the question. He is talking about converting his
current bike and that is an entirely different issue. No one makes a
road race frame sans disc brakes with a rear triangle beefed up to
later take a disc brake. No one specs a front fork to drop in a front
disc brake, although you are more likely to make good on that. And
assuming that front or rear of a true road race bike has frame
components that will take disc brakes without swapping out is just
plain stupid.
You remind me of the 'expert' that told a friend of mine that all he
had to do was add a couple of eyelets wrapped around the bottom of his
rear triangle to add a rear rack to tour on his Colnago. In the middle
of the first morning he hit a sharp bump and severed both sides of
that frame. He got to look up close and personal at just how thin the
tubing on a race frame is.
Yeah, you can ask a custom frame builder to build a road race geometry
with disc brakes. You probably can ask a semi-custom builder to add it
to a standard model. And on a given occasion, there may be on the
market a road race frame available with disc brakes. None has anything
to do with retrofitting a current road race frame with disc brakes.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 17:48:12
From: runcyclexcski@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
I have a Cannondale road tandem with disk brakes. Those wheels are
definitiely heavier than my road bike's wheels, but those are ROAD
wheels. They fiit regular tires. I don't know if the wheels will fit a
standard road fork.
So, there you go. And, yeah, stopping that tandem is much easier than
stopping a tandem with standard brakes.
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 12:21:21
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Apr 17, 5:15 pm, "Bob in CT" <ctvigge...@comcast.net > wrote:
> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop well
> enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only disk
> brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than the
> LeMond.
>
> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there are
> touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing bike,
> so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet stopping
> ability of disks.
>
> --
> Bob in CT
Sounds like you have some problem with your front brake. With an all-
up load of 250lbs, while braking with normal "racing" bike brakes in
the rain downhill, tire traction is more of an issue for me than
braking force.
The disk brakes on my MTB can lock up the front wheel whenever I
choose, wet or dry, while the road bike can't (I don't think...) but
that doesn't matter as I could easily flip over the bars on my road
bike if I felt like it. In other words, I always have way more wheel
stopping power than I can use, disks or not.
I use Koolstop salmon pads, but I had almost as good braking with
stock Shimano pads.
Joseph
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 15:36:43
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On 17 Apr 2007 12:21:21 -0700, "joseph.santaniello@gmail.com"
<joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > wrote:
>The disk brakes on my MTB can lock up the front wheel whenever I
>choose, wet or dry, while the road bike can't (I don't think...) but
>that doesn't matter as I could easily flip over the bars on my road
>bike if I felt like it. In other words, I always have way more wheel
>stopping power than I can use, disks or not.
My rim brakes can, although you have to get in the habit of sluicing
enough water off of the rims or give yourself that extra couple of
seconds for braking. Steel rims OTOH can be fun, although I think I
would have to go back to my Schwinn Collegiate for that combination.
Even the Gitane Gran Sport had aluminum rims. No toe in and steel rims
is part of the reason I almost ended up in the East Grand River back
in college days. I had the choice of the river, playing in traffic, or
hitting a bush, so I did major damage to an innocent bush.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 12:44:27
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
Bob in CT wrote:
> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop
> well enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only
> disk brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than
> the LeMond.
>
> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there
> are touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing
> bike, so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet
> stopping ability of disks.
>
> --Bob in CT
In my experience disks have a definite advantage in the wet.
In the dry it's harder to say.
If you do get a disk, I'd advise you to get a 200-mm rotor kit. Larger
diameter = more stopping power.
~
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 11:52:02
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
DougC <dcimper@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> Bob in CT wrote:
>> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop
>> well enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only
>> disk brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than
>> the LeMond.
>>
>> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there
>> are touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing
>> bike, so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet
>> stopping ability of disks.
>>
>> --Bob in CT
>
> In my experience disks have a definite advantage in the wet.
> In the dry it's harder to say.
>
> If you do get a disk, I'd advise you to get a 200-mm rotor kit. Larger
> diameter = more stopping power.
I have a 200mm rotor on my Xtracycle, but that is carrying tandem weight
loads. Why in Bikeh Hozho's name would a single rider, who hasn't
mentioned being a clydesdale, need a 200mm rotor?
It would definitely add to the expense and trouble, for neglible to no
benefit IMO.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"I don't know why, but first C programs tend to look a lot worse than
first programs in any other language (maybe except for fortran, but then
I suspect all fortran programs look like `firsts')"
(By Olaf Kirch)
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 19:44:53
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
Dane Buson wrote:
>
> I have a 200mm rotor on my Xtracycle, but that is carrying tandem weight
> loads. Why in Bikeh Hozho's name would a single rider, who hasn't
> mentioned being a clydesdale, need a 200mm rotor?
>
Because, it doesn't make sense /not/ to--how many people ever complain
about having too much braking power? For only a bit more weight (and
expense) a 200mm has more stopping power than a 160mm rotor would
(exactly how much depends on the wheel).
> It would definitely add to the expense and trouble, for neglible to no
> benefit IMO.
>
The expense difference may be rather small: http://www.pricepoint.com/
for example has the 2007 Avid BB7's for 160mm = $87, 180mm = $90 and
200mm = $93. Six dollars difference. But if you started with the
$160mm's and later wanted to upgrade to bigger rotors, it would cost $30
to $40 for a bigger rotor, and another $10 or so for the caliper mount.
So it is cheaper to just get the biggest disk at the start, and know
you're getting the most braking power.
And it's not any more trouble, either.... all the common rotor sizes
(160mm, 180mm, 200mm) use the same mount system now, the only
differences in parts are the rotor itself and the bracket that mounts
the caliper to the fork/frame.
~
|
| | | | |
Date: 18 Apr 2007 01:34:22
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
>> I have a 200mm rotor on my Xtracycle, but that is carrying tandem weight
>> loads. Why in Bikeh Hozho's name would a single rider, who hasn't
>> mentioned being a clydesdale, need a 200mm rotor?
>
> Because, it doesn't make sense /not/ to--how many people ever complain
> about having too much braking power? For only a bit more weight (and
> expense) a 200mm has more stopping power than a 160mm rotor would (exactly
> how much depends on the wheel).
>
>> It would definitely add to the expense and trouble, for neglible to no
>> benefit IMO.
But it wouldn't likely provide any benefit whatsoever in this particular
case, for two reasons.
#1: He's limited in max braking power not so much by the brakes themselves,
but the contact patch on the ground. Road bikes= small contact patch. Past a
certain point he'll simply skid. The smallest standard rotor will easily
provide enough power to skid any road bike tire, especially in the wet.
#2: The primary advantage to a larger rotor is what? Heat dissipation? Not
an issue here. He's talking about riding in the rain. I'm wondering aloud if
this could actually work against him, since a larger rotor isn't going to
get as hot (so the water doesn't evaporate as readily, which might be a
non-issue in a bicycle application?).
In any event, the added max stopping power of a larger rotor simply provides
no benefit that I can think of, since it's well beyond the force required to
skid the tires.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | | | |
Date: 18 Apr 2007 14:04:08
From: Alan Hoyle
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:34:22 GMT, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> But it wouldn't likely provide any benefit whatsoever in this particular
> case, for two reasons.
> #1: He's limited in max braking power not so much by the brakes
> themselves, but the contact patch on the ground. Road bikes= small
> contact patch. Past a certain point he'll simply skid. The smallest
> standard rotor will easily provide enough power to skid any road
> bike tire, especially in the wet.
I'm not 100% sure, but I thought that friction was invariant with
contact area. I know that was true with static and sliding friction,
but I can't remember for if it made a difference with rolling friction
(though that is highly related to static friction). My understanding
is that the increased friction with decreased tire pressure was due
to casing/tread flex and not the change in contact patch area
My bet is that the original poster is confusing braking performance
with lever pressure due to the different mechanical advantages on his
MTB brake levers/brakes and his road bike setup. When I first started
riding my road bike, I felt like I had to pull a lot harder on the
road bike levers (particularly when braking from the hoods), and that
felt scary when opposed with the comparitively light touch that my
V-Brakes had. In the few times I tried out discs, they felt much more
similar to the V-Brake than to the road brakes (i.e. light hand
pressure gives relatively hard braking).
-alan
--
Alan Hoyle - alanh@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 18 Apr 2007 19:38:26
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On 2007-04-18, Alan Hoyle <alanh@unc.edu > wrote:
> My bet is that the original poster is confusing braking performance
> with lever pressure due to the different mechanical advantages on his
> MTB brake levers/brakes and his road bike setup. When I first started
> riding my road bike, I felt like I had to pull a lot harder on the
> road bike levers (particularly when braking from the hoods), and that
> felt scary when opposed with the comparitively light touch that my
> V-Brakes had.
That seems possible. I had the same reaction when I started riding my
road bike again this spring after mainly riding an old mountain bike
with V-brakes all winter. The road bike wants a pretty hard squeeze,
especially from the hoods, to accomplish what light pull with one finger
did on the mountain bike.
> In the few times I tried out discs, they felt much more
> similar to the V-Brake than to the road brakes (i.e. light hand
> pressure gives relatively hard braking).
More so, even. That's why they're so nice on long off-road descents.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 17 Apr 2007 21:48:10
From: di
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > wrote in message
news:yAeVh.4449$2v1.2433@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
>>> I have a 200mm rotor on my Xtracycle, but that is carrying tandem weight
>>> loads. Why in Bikeh Hozho's name would a single rider, who hasn't
>>> mentioned being a clydesdale, need a 200mm rotor?
>>
>> Because, it doesn't make sense /not/ to--how many people ever complain
>> about having too much braking power? For only a bit more weight (and
>> expense) a 200mm has more stopping power than a 160mm rotor would
>> (exactly how much depends on the wheel).
>>
>>> It would definitely add to the expense and trouble, for neglible to no
>>> benefit IMO.
>
> But it wouldn't likely provide any benefit whatsoever in this particular
> case, for two reasons.
>
> #1: He's limited in max braking power not so much by the brakes
> themselves, but the contact patch on the ground. Road bikes= small contact
> patch. Past a certain point he'll simply skid. The smallest standard rotor
> will easily provide enough power to skid any road bike tire, especially in
> the wet.
>
> #2: The primary advantage to a larger rotor is what? Heat dissipation? Not
> an issue here. He's talking about riding in the rain. I'm wondering aloud
> if this could actually work against him, since a larger rotor isn't going
> to get as hot (so the water doesn't evaporate as readily, which might be a
> non-issue in a bicycle application?).
>
> In any event, the added max stopping power of a larger rotor simply
> provides no benefit that I can think of, since it's well beyond the force
> required to skid the tires.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
I have a road bike built in a cyclecross frame with disc brakes, Avid Road
Calipers, Ultegra Shifters, 160mm Rotors, 700c x 32 Tires, there's no way to
lock the wheels. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but I've tried
several pads and they still don't work near to Mountain Bike performance.
I think either the road calipers are not powerful enough or the road levers
flex some. I'm changing to 200mm rotors the first chance I get.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 18 Apr 2007 23:01:33
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
> I have a road bike built in a cyclecross frame with disc brakes, Avid Road
> Calipers, Ultegra Shifters, 160mm Rotors, 700c x 32 Tires, there's no way
> to lock the wheels. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but I've
> tried several pads and they still don't work near to Mountain Bike
> performance. I think either the road calipers are not powerful enough or
> the road levers flex some. I'm changing to 200mm rotors the first chance
> I get.
Your problem isn't caused by the size of the rotor. It's a mis-match between
the amount of cable pull the STI levers offer, vs what the Avid "Road"
calipers require. I'm not sure which road levers Avid designed their brakes
for, but it's not road levers designed for modern dual-pivot brakes (as used
with all STI road levers). We've seen this issue frequently. I'll be very
interested in knowing whether a 200mm rotor actually improves the situation
or not. It's my opinion that Avid needs to re-engineer their disc brake for
a different cable actuation ratio before they'll work the way people expect.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 19 Apr 2007 20:22:44
From: DI
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:2BDVh.230$Ea5.193@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
>> I have a road bike built in a cyclecross frame with disc brakes, Avid
>> Road Calipers, Ultegra Shifters, 160mm Rotors, 700c x 32 Tires, there's
>> no way to lock the wheels. I don't know exactly what the problem is,
>> but I've tried several pads and they still don't work near to Mountain
>> Bike performance. I think either the road calipers are not powerful
>> enough or the road levers flex some. I'm changing to 200mm rotors the
>> first chance I get.
>
> Your problem isn't caused by the size of the rotor. It's a mis-match
> between the amount of cable pull the STI levers offer, vs what the Avid
> "Road" calipers require. I'm not sure which road levers Avid designed
> their brakes for, but it's not road levers designed for modern dual-pivot
> brakes (as used with all STI road levers). We've seen this issue
> frequently. I'll be very interested in knowing whether a 200mm rotor
> actually improves the situation or not. It's my opinion that Avid needs to
> re-engineer their disc brake for a different cable actuation ratio before
> they'll work the way people expect.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
You may be right, I'm using Ultegra STI Shifters, but I've also tried 105
non-STI, they both are similar. I'm wondering if it may be some more of
the Shimano/Sram compatibility crap. But then again, the levers are not
using their full stroke when the brake calipers bottom out, there just
doesn't seem to be enough power there to full lock the brakes.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 18 Apr 2007 05:51:50
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
"di" <di9999@cox.net > wrote:
>I have a road bike built in a cyclecross frame with disc brakes, Avid Road
>Calipers, Ultegra Shifters, 160mm Rotors, 700c x 32 Tires, there's no way to
>lock the wheels. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but I've tried
>several pads and they still don't work near to Mountain Bike performance.
>I think either the road calipers are not powerful enough or the road levers
>flex some. I'm changing to 200mm rotors the first chance I get.
The problem isn't the size of the rotors. Something is wrong with the
braking system. If you can't lock the brakes at all with 160mm tires,
your brakes are far more deficient than a 20% increase in rotor size
is going to "fix". Find someone who understands disc brakes and have
them fix your current brakes (and pay them the cost of those new
rotors you will have saved).
My bet is that there's some sort of contamination on the discs.
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 18 Apr 2007 08:50:14
From: di
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
"Mark Hickey" <mark@habcycles.com > wrote in message
news:qu4c23lmclm46nhmlvg65i6rcirisf3aom@4ax.com...
> "di" <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>I have a road bike built in a cyclecross frame with disc brakes, Avid Road
>>Calipers, Ultegra Shifters, 160mm Rotors, 700c x 32 Tires, there's no way
>>to
>>lock the wheels. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but I've
>>tried
>>several pads and they still don't work near to Mountain Bike performance.
>>I think either the road calipers are not powerful enough or the road
>>levers
>>flex some. I'm changing to 200mm rotors the first chance I get.
>
> The problem isn't the size of the rotors. Something is wrong with the
> braking system. If you can't lock the brakes at all with 160mm tires,
> your brakes are far more deficient than a 20% increase in rotor size
> is going to "fix". Find someone who understands disc brakes and have
> them fix your current brakes (and pay them the cost of those new
> rotors you will have saved).
>
> My bet is that there's some sort of contamination on the discs.
>
> Mark Hickey
> Habanero Cycles
> http://www.habcycles.com
> Home of the $795 ti frame
The braking system is in good condition, I'm very familiar with disc brakes,
I have them on 3 other bicycles, and have serviced them on several friends
bikes. I've tied at least 3 different brands of brake pads, some worked
better than others. Don't get me wrong, the bike will stop better than it
would with cantilever brakes, but will not lock the rear wheel. I think
it's either the road components (calipers or levers), or the larger diameter
700c wheel has to much lever advantage for a 160mm rotor. If you notice
touring bikes and 29" mountain bikes all use larger rotors. I'll never use
anything other than 200 or maybe 180 rotors for future use.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 18 Apr 2007 18:46:03
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
"di" <di9999@cox.net > wrote:
>
>"Mark Hickey" <mark@habcycles.com> wrote in message
>news:qu4c23lmclm46nhmlvg65i6rcirisf3aom@4ax.com...
>> "di" <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I have a road bike built in a cyclecross frame with disc brakes, Avid Road
>>>Calipers, Ultegra Shifters, 160mm Rotors, 700c x 32 Tires, there's no way
>>>to
>>>lock the wheels. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but I've
>>>tried
>>>several pads and they still don't work near to Mountain Bike performance.
>>>I think either the road calipers are not powerful enough or the road
>>>levers
>>>flex some. I'm changing to 200mm rotors the first chance I get.
>>
>> The problem isn't the size of the rotors. Something is wrong with the
>> braking system. If you can't lock the brakes at all with 160mm tires,
>> your brakes are far more deficient than a 20% increase in rotor size
>> is going to "fix". Find someone who understands disc brakes and have
>> them fix your current brakes (and pay them the cost of those new
>> rotors you will have saved).
>>
>> My bet is that there's some sort of contamination on the discs.
>
>The braking system is in good condition, I'm very familiar with disc brakes,
>I have them on 3 other bicycles, and have serviced them on several friends
>bikes. I've tied at least 3 different brands of brake pads, some worked
>better than others. Don't get me wrong, the bike will stop better than it
>would with cantilever brakes, but will not lock the rear wheel.
Yikes. You've apparently had quite a history of bad brakes. I've
never had a set of canti brakes that I wouldn't lock the rear wheel
with one finger. Locking a rear wheel is a VERY minimal "test" for a
brake. Virtually ANY brake at all should EASILY lock the rear wheel.
The only bike that I've ever had to fiddle with to do so was my old
tandem (which had very long cables, and obviously a lot more weight
and less weight transfer during a stop).
>I think
>it's either the road components (calipers or levers), or the larger diameter
>700c wheel has to much lever advantage for a 160mm rotor. If you notice
>touring bikes and 29" mountain bikes all use larger rotors. I'll never use
>anything other than 200 or maybe 180 rotors for future use.
A 700c wheel with a (typical) 23mm tire isn't really that much
different than a 26" wheel with a 2.1" tire in radius...
700c - 311mm + 25mm = 336mm
26" - 279.5mm + 78.7mm = 358.2mm
... and as you can see, the 26" effective wheel plus tire radius is
actually 6.6% larger than the typical roadie wheel/tire combination.
Seriously, take the bike to a pro who can diagnose what is wrong with
your brakes - being unable to lock up the rear wheel (especially if we
assume your front brake is no better) is downright dangerous. Brake
work is a lot cheaper than dental work, after all...
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 18 Apr 2007 21:52:21
From: di
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
"Mark Hickey" <mark@habcycles.com > wrote in message
news:evhd23pc8ruier98dgdeqv89p0s37no1rj@4ax.com...
> "di" <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>
> A 700c wheel with a (typical) 23mm tire isn't really that much
> different than a 26" wheel with a 2.1" tire in radius...
>
> 700c - 311mm + 25mm = 336mm
> 26" - 279.5mm + 78.7mm = 358.2mm
>
> ... and as you can see, the 26" effective wheel plus tire radius is
> actually 6.6% larger than the typical roadie wheel/tire combination.
>
> Seriously, take the bike to a pro who can diagnose what is wrong with
> your brakes - being unable to lock up the rear wheel (especially if we
> assume your front brake is no better) is downright dangerous. Brake
> work is a lot cheaper than dental work, after all...
>
> Mark Hickey
> Habanero Cycles
> http://www.habcycles.com
> Home of the $795 ti frame
By taking it to a Pro, I assume you mean a LBS with a pimple faced 18 year
old kid making minimum wage working on the bike. No Thanks.
You're talking like you think I don't have brakes, I do and they stop ok,
it's just they just don't work as well as my mountain bikes with discs.
My 700c x 32 wheel is about 27" diameter with 216cm circumference, My 26
x 2.1 is approx 26" diameter with 207cm circumference. I know you have
vast experience with building bikes, but give me some credit also, I've very
qualified with mechanical stuff. I'm convinced the Avid Road discs are
mechanically inefficient with 160mm rotors when used with normal road
levers, and will work much better with 185 or 203's. The only thing I
haven't really looked at is the cable itself, although I've changed it
several times, maybe I need some better quality cables.
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 19 Apr 2007 05:59:26
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
"di" <di9999@cox.net > wrote:
>"Mark Hickey" <mark@habcycles.com> wrote
>> "di" <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> A 700c wheel with a (typical) 23mm tire isn't really that much
>> different than a 26" wheel with a 2.1" tire in radius...
>>
>> 700c - 311mm + 25mm = 336mm
>> 26" - 279.5mm + 78.7mm = 358.2mm
>>
>> ... and as you can see, the 26" effective wheel plus tire radius is
>> actually 6.6% larger than the typical roadie wheel/tire combination.
>>
>> Seriously, take the bike to a pro who can diagnose what is wrong with
>> your brakes - being unable to lock up the rear wheel (especially if we
>> assume your front brake is no better) is downright dangerous. Brake
>> work is a lot cheaper than dental work, after all...
>
>By taking it to a Pro, I assume you mean a LBS with a pimple faced 18 year
>old kid making minimum wage working on the bike. No Thanks.
>
>You're talking like you think I don't have brakes, I do and they stop ok,
>it's just they just don't work as well as my mountain bikes with discs.
If you can't skid the rear wheel, and assuming the front is no better,
you have only a small fraction of "normal brakes"... which is quite
frankly dangerous.
>My 700c x 32 wheel is about 27" diameter with 216cm circumference, My 26
>x 2.1 is approx 26" diameter with 207cm circumference. I know you have
>vast experience with building bikes, but give me some credit also,
I didn't know what size tires you were running (and assumed smaller),
but even with the fat rubber, the difference is only 4%, so I think
it's safe to rule that out as a problem.
>I've very
>qualified with mechanical stuff. I'm convinced the Avid Road discs are
>mechanically inefficient with 160mm rotors when used with normal road
>levers, and will work much better with 185 or 203's. The only thing I
>haven't really looked at is the cable itself, although I've changed it
>several times, maybe I need some better quality cables.
Good luck then - I'm still of the (firm) opinion that even if you DO
get 20% more mechanical advantage with a bigger disc, you're still
going to be FAR short of "normal braking" on the front (and possibly
even on the rear).
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 18 Apr 2007 11:38:58
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
di wrote:
>
> .....Don't get me wrong, the bike will stop better than it
> would with cantilever brakes, but will not lock the rear wheel. I think
> it's either the road components (calipers or levers), or the larger diameter
> 700c wheel has to much lever advantage for a 160mm rotor. If you notice
> touring bikes and 29" mountain bikes all use larger rotors. I'll never use
> anything other than 200 or maybe 180 rotors for future use.
>
>
On the only semi-normal bike I have (dual 26" wheels) the 200mm BB7's
won't lock the tires either on clean pavement, but they will if there's
just a tiny bit of sand on the road. The tires are wider than a road
bike, at 1.75" on downhill-width rims. The disk brakes DO stop a lot
harder than the original v-brakes would. I don't often ride in the
/rain/, but next time it's wet I'll have to do some experimenting.
If you want to be able to lock up the wheels at any time, the only way
to go seems to be hydraulics, but they bring along a few of their own
possible problems as well.
I don't know how much tire width has to do with being able to lock up
wheels or not.... the only bikes I've rode that could lock the rear
wheel on clean pavement were bikes that had very-near equal weight
distribution front/rear. In the world of upright bikes this 50/50 weight
distribution is accepted, but among recumbents it's not always so.
......
As it happens both the (road) bikes I ride now have about 66% weight on
the rear and from a practical safety standpoint I think it's better than
a bike that has 50/50 distribution during normal riding. With a bicycle
that has a rearward weight bias, during a panic stop there's not much
danger of going over the bars and the braking force is better
distributed across both wheels.
~
|
| |
Date: 17 Apr 2007 17:40:16
From: nash
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
Try Trek
"Bob in CT" <ctviggen.x@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:op.tqxonssu3plkkk@esq03.mfh.com...
> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop well
> enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only disk
> brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than the
> LeMond.
>
> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there are
> touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing bike,
> so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet stopping
> ability of disks.
>
> --
> Bob in CT
|
| | |
Date: 18 Apr 2007 15:30:17
From: nash
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
"nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net > wrote in message
news:4E7Vh.87615$6m4.44611@pd7urf1no...
> Try Trek
>
> "Bob in CT" <ctviggen.x@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:op.tqxonssu3plkkk@esq03.mfh.com...
>> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop well
>> enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only disk
>> brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than the
>> LeMond.
>>
>> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there
>> are touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing
>> bike, so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet
>> stopping ability of disks.
>>
>> --
>> Bob in CT
>
Forget Trek my bad
no discs on road frames
my 1500 is called a touring bike by trek but it does not take fenders or
panniers on the frame.
Not sure if you want a good climber or just a good stopper.
the 1500 is an excellent climber as I have heard so enough times by owners.
22 lbs. so it fits the race category. I have a freddy seat post fender
and know a $45 special fender can go on the front.
Sorry I have no experience braking downhill in the rain with it. Maybe
someone else can pitch that one.
|
| |
Date: 17 Apr 2007 10:13:11
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Apr 17, 10:15 am, "Bob in CT" <ctvigge...@comcast.net > wrote:
> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop well
> enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only disk
> brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than the
> LeMond.
>
> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there are
> touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing bike,
> so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet stopping
> ability of disks.
>
> --
> Bob in CT
Redline used to have a model called Conquest Road. It had disk brakes
on it. No longer made by them but you could probably find one
around. Do a Google search and you should find some reviews by
various magazines and such.
|
| |
Date: 17 Apr 2007 09:24:38
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
Bob in CT <ctviggen.x@comcast.net > wrote:
> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop well
> enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only disk
> brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than the
> LeMond.
Crazy? Not really. The easiest/best thing to do IMO would be just to
replace the front brake. It should be easy enough to find a cyclocross
fork with disk tabs (Nashbar is a good source usually). So you would
need: Cyclocross fork, disk brake, new disc compatible front wheel.
Depending on which brake you get, you might or might not need a travel
agent to correct the amount of cable pull. Avid has disc brakes that
are compatible with road levers.
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=8693&category=19
There's no real need to replace the rear brake. In the wet especially,
you'll easily be able to skid out the rear wheel. Most of your braking
power is concentrated in the front anyway.
> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there are
> touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing bike,
> so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet stopping
> ability of disks.
I don't know for sure, but the fix I put above should be fairly easy to
do. Depending on how cheap^H^H^H^H^H^H frugal you are, you could
probably do it for less than $250. If you're willing to scavenge and
you have good used bike shops near you, you could easily do it for less
than $150.
The other option is to buy the 'cyclocross' style bikes that come with
disc brakes. They're not race legal for cyclocross, but they are nice
for riding around. My cube neighbor rides his as a commuter.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Advertising is a valuable economic factor because it is the
cheapest way of selling goods, particularly if the goods are
worthless." -Sinclair Lewis
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 13:03:36
From: Bob in CT
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:24:38 -0400, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu > wrote:
> Bob in CT <ctviggen.x@comcast.net> wrote:
>> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop =
=
>> well
>> enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only dis=
k
>> brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than th=
e
>> LeMond.
>
> Crazy? Not really. The easiest/best thing to do IMO would be just to=
> replace the front brake. It should be easy enough to find a cyclocros=
s
> fork with disk tabs (Nashbar is a good source usually). So you would
> need: Cyclocross fork, disk brake, new disc compatible front wheel.
>
> Depending on which brake you get, you might or might not need a travel=
> agent to correct the amount of cable pull. Avid has disc brakes that
> are compatible with road levers.
>
> http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=3D8693&=
category=3D19
>
> There's no real need to replace the rear brake. In the wet especially=
,
> you'll easily be able to skid out the rear wheel. Most of your brakin=
g
> power is concentrated in the front anyway.
>
>> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know ther=
e =
>> are
>> touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing =
>> bike,
>> so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet stopp=
ing
>> ability of disks.
>
> I don't know for sure, but the fix I put above should be fairly easy t=
o
> do. Depending on how cheap^H^H^H^H^H^H frugal you are, you could
> probably do it for less than $250. If you're willing to scavenge and
> you have good used bike shops near you, you could easily do it for les=
s
> than $150.
>
> The other option is to buy the 'cyclocross' style bikes that come with=
> disc brakes. They're not race legal for cyclocross, but they are nice=
> for riding around. My cube neighbor rides his as a commuter.
>
Very good ideas. Thank you.
-- =
Bob in CT
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| |
Date: 17 Apr 2007 12:15:53
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
Bob in CT wrote:
:: with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop
:: well enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with
:: only disk brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops
:: better than the LeMond.
::
:: Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know
:: there are touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of
:: a racing bike, so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the
:: better wet stopping ability of disks.
What's a racing bike and what's a touring bike? I get confused when I hear
those terms. When I think racing, I think extremely lightweight components
and a rather aggressive riding position. Is that what you want? The touring
bikes can have very similar make up, but sturdier components and a slightly
not so aggressive riding position. At least, they do in my mind! :)
Also, do disc brakes really stop you better? I've heard arguments for and
against.
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 13:19:47
From: Bob in CT
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:15:53 -0400, Roger Zoul <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> Bob in CT wrote:
> :: with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop
> :: well enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with
> :: only disk brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops
> :: better than the LeMond.
> ::
> :: Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know
> :: there are touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of
> :: a racing bike, so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the
> :: better wet stopping ability of disks.
>
> What's a racing bike and what's a touring bike? I get confused when I
> hear
> those terms. When I think racing, I think extremely lightweight
> components
> and a rather aggressive riding position. Is that what you want? The
> touring
> bikes can have very similar make up, but sturdier components and a
> slightly
> not so aggressive riding position. At least, they do in my mind! :)
>
> Also, do disc brakes really stop you better? I've heard arguments for
> and
> against.
>
>
Well, I'm not huge into light weight parts (especially wheels), although I
do like a more aggressive position. Having said that, perhaps there are
touring bikes with good positions, but they tend to have a lot of stuff I
don't want, like connections for panniers, "weird" positions for shifters,
etc. As for whether disk brakes stop better, I can only give you my
feelings, which is they do. I cannot stop my racing bike in the rain/wet
on the steep downhills I ride. I can slow down, but cannot stop.
Meanwhile, I can stop my mountain bike on the same road. Now, there could
be some amount of involvement due to rubber with this, too, as the
mountain bike certainly puts more rubber to the road. Also, the amount of
sand/grit/leaves/etc. that gets onto the brakes is amazing on the racing
bike. By contrast, there's nothing on my disk brakes.
--
Bob in CT
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Date: 19 Apr 2007 14:01:09
From: nash
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
"Bob in CT" <ctviggen.x@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:op.tqxue9wc3plkkk@esq03.mfh.com...
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:15:53 -0400, Roger Zoul <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Bob in CT wrote:
>> :: with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop
>> :: well enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with
>> :: only disk brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops
>> :: better than the LeMond.
>> ::
>> :: Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know
>> :: there are touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of
>> :: a racing bike, so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the
>> :: better wet stopping ability of disks.
>>
>> What's a racing bike and what's a touring bike? I get confused when I
>> hear
>> those terms. When I think racing, I think extremely lightweight
>> components
>> and a rather aggressive riding position. Is that what you want? The
>> touring
>> bikes can have very similar make up, but sturdier components and a
>> slightly
>> not so aggressive riding position. At least, they do in my mind! :)
>>
>> Also, do disc brakes really stop you better? I've heard arguments for
>> and
>> against.
>>
>>
>
> Well, I'm not huge into light weight parts (especially wheels), although I
> do like a more aggressive position. Having said that, perhaps there are
> touring bikes with good positions, but they tend to have a lot of stuff I
> don't want, like connections for panniers, "weird" positions for shifters,
> etc. As for whether disk brakes stop better, I can only give you my
> feelings, which is they do. I cannot stop my racing bike in the rain/wet
> on the steep downhills I ride. I can slow down, but cannot stop.
> Meanwhile, I can stop my mountain bike on the same road. Now, there could
> be some amount of involvement due to rubber with this, too, as the
> mountain bike certainly puts more rubber to the road. Also, the amount of
> sand/grit/leaves/etc. that gets onto the brakes is amazing on the racing
> bike. By contrast, there's nothing on my disk brakes.
>
> --
> Bob in CT
Yeah, those are the stated pros also your rim does not get any wear
especially when there is grit. No black mucky rims either.
|
| | |
Date: 17 Apr 2007 09:30:25
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
Roger Zoul <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Bob in CT wrote:
> ::
> :: Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know
> :: there are touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of
> :: a racing bike, so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the
> :: better wet stopping ability of disks.
>
> What's a racing bike and what's a touring bike? I get confused when I hear
> those terms. When I think racing, I think extremely lightweight components
> and a rather aggressive riding position. Is that what you want? The touring
> bikes can have very similar make up, but sturdier components and a slightly
> not so aggressive riding position. At least, they do in my mind! :)
Yeah, it's pretty slippery. A racing bike from yesteryear looks
suspiciously like tourers now in a lot of cases.
> Also, do disc brakes really stop you better? I've heard arguments for
> and against.
Well, they can. However, most of the time you're not limited by the
braking force you can exert, you're limited by not losing control as
your rear wheel lifts. Most people rarely test the limits of their
braking anyway.
Braking in the wet is a special case that you could certainly argue for
the 'need' for disc brakes. Personally I ride year round in Seattle and
just use cantilever brakes with Koolstop salmon pads.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
Creativity is no substitute for knowing what you are doing.
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 13:02:22
From: Bob in CT
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:30:25 -0400, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu > wrote:
> Roger Zoul <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Bob in CT wrote:
>> ::
>> :: Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know
>> :: there are touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of
>> :: a racing bike, so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the
>> :: better wet stopping ability of disks.
>>
>> What's a racing bike and what's a touring bike? I get confused when I
>> hear
>> those terms. When I think racing, I think extremely lightweight
>> components
>> and a rather aggressive riding position. Is that what you want? The
>> touring
>> bikes can have very similar make up, but sturdier components and a
>> slightly
>> not so aggressive riding position. At least, they do in my mind! :)
>
> Yeah, it's pretty slippery. A racing bike from yesteryear looks
> suspiciously like tourers now in a lot of cases.
There may be tourers that have a geometry I'd like. The problem is that
they're really built for touring, which is something I won't do. I don't
need gussets for paniers, for instance. I'll never use them.
>> Also, do disc brakes really stop you better? I've heard arguments for
>> and against.
>
> Well, they can. However, most of the time you're not limited by the
> braking force you can exert, you're limited by not losing control as
> your rear wheel lifts. Most people rarely test the limits of their
> braking anyway.
>
> Braking in the wet is a special case that you could certainly argue for
> the 'need' for disc brakes. Personally I ride year round in Seattle and
> just use cantilever brakes with Koolstop salmon pads.
>
I ride a lot of hills. I cannot stop my racing bike in the rain/wet when
coming down a hill. I can slow down, but not stop. I can, however, stop
my mountain bike.
--
Bob in CT
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 14:44:48
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:02:22 -0400, "Bob in CT"
<ctviggen.x@comcast.net > wrote:
>There may be tourers that have a geometry I'd like. The problem is that
>they're really built for touring, which is something I won't do. I don't
>need gussets for paniers, for instance. I'll never use them.
The two lines of thought make little sense to me. You can't make disc
brakes work on a true road race bike in the rear. The rear triangle
simply is not designed to handle the forces applied in that manner. If
gussets bother you, what about the thicker, heavier front fork, the
respoked wheel and the weight of the disc? And you still have a rim
brake in the rear, even if that is the less important brake.
I can come to a stop on some pretty steep hills using rim brakes, even
with a load. Even with a trailer. And I watched a pro rider snap a
chain on a wet downhill and still come to a full stop before exiting
right over a stone wall. I'd check with a good bike shop or mechanic
and take a shot at improving your rim brakes before going the disc
route. Even the top of the line rim set-ups will cost you not much
more than the time and effort that would go into the disc brake
set-up, and it will leave you with the same bike in all essential
areas.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 10:27:04
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
Bob in CT <ctviggen.x@comcast.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:30:25 -0400, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Well, they can. However, most of the time you're not limited by the
>> braking force you can exert, you're limited by not losing control as
>> your rear wheel lifts. Most people rarely test the limits of their
>> braking anyway.
>>
>> Braking in the wet is a special case that you could certainly argue for
>> the 'need' for disc brakes. Personally I ride year round in Seattle and
>> just use cantilever brakes with Koolstop salmon pads.
>
> I ride a lot of hills. I cannot stop my racing bike in the rain/wet when
> coming down a hill. I can slow down, but not stop. I can, however, stop
> my mountain bike.
Then I would question your brakes/pads/adjustment. Seattle is very
hilly and I have no trouble stopping from 40+ mph in pouring rain going
down a 8-10% grade. What is your current brake setup?
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
Repel them. Repel them. Induce them to relinquish the spheroid.
-- Indiana University football cheer
|
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 08:30:58
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Am I crazy to want a racing bike...
|
On Apr 17, 9:15 am, "Bob in CT" <ctvigge...@comcast.net > wrote:
> with cable-actuated disk brakes? I find my LeMond just doesn't stop well
> enough in the rain for my tastes, but my mountain bike (with only disk
> brakes on the front) does. Or, I should say, it stops better than the
> LeMond.
>
> Is there such a thing as a racing bike with disk brakes? I know there are
> touring bikes with disk brakes, but I like the geometry of a racing bike,
> so I'd like to get the racing bike geometry with the better wet stopping
> ability of disks.
>
> --
> Bob in CT
Certain custom builders can make ya a race-y geometry frame with disc
brake tabs, geometry for the disc compatible fork, 135mm spacing in
the rear. Not hard at all for the likes of Waterford or Moots. Be
careful if ya want fenders tho. If it's a seat stay mounted caliper,
it 'may' interfere with the fender mounts.
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