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Main
Date: 05 Nov 2007 08:33:13
From: Sir Ridesalot
Subject: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
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Hi t here.
I read recently in the local paper that yet another cyclist was struck
whilst riding in the dark wearing dark-coloured clothing and without
any lights or reflectors mounted on the bicycle.
I really feel sorry for the bicyclist's family and especially the
truck driver who most likely never even saw the bicyclist.
I wonder if writing a letter to the paper imploring people to make
more effort to be visible to other road users at night would help any?
Another tragic accident that may well have been prevented with even
very basic ligting on the bicycle.
Peter
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 03:40:49
From:
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
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On Nov 6, 2:26 pm, "Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 - Global Warming Edition =AE"
<b...@bellsouth.net > wrote:
>
> I wonder if there is a study done on bicycle vs. car accidents in which
> types of bikes are mentioned. I have a sneaking suspicion that there may=
be
> a lot of hipsters on brake-less, light-less, reflector-less death traps
> bonking into or being bonked by cars.
I really doubt there has been, or ever will be, such a study.
Bike accident studies are few and far between, from what I can tell.
Some might think that's very regrettable, but I think it's due to good
judgment about use of resources. There are about 700,000 heart
disease fatalities per year in the entire USA. There are about 40,000
motorist fatalities. But there are only about 800 cycling
fatalities.
Briefly, bicycling is too safe to worry about very much, and nobody is
likely to worry about details like "what style of bike was he
riding?" Hell, most people don't understand the differences between
types of bikes anyway.
("What??? You paid $500 for a _bicycle_????")
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 06 Nov 2007 14:26:47
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 - Global Warming Edition ®
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
"Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca > wrote in message
news:1194280393.245883.86280@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> Hi t here.
>
> I read recently in the local paper that yet another cyclist was struck
> whilst riding in the dark wearing dark-coloured clothing and without
> any lights or reflectors mounted on the bicycle.
>
> I really feel sorry for the bicyclist's family and especially the
> truck driver who most likely never even saw the bicyclist.
>
> I wonder if writing a letter to the paper imploring people to make
> more effort to be visible to other road users at night would help any?
>
> Another tragic accident that may well have been prevented with even
> very basic ligting on the bicycle.
>
> Peter
>
I wonder if there is a study done on bicycle vs. car accidents in which
types of bikes are mentioned. I have a sneaking suspicion that there maybe
a lot of hipsters on brake-less, light-less, reflector-less death traps
bonking into or being bonked by cars. Spoke cards don't count as
reflectors. There was one dumbass I saw who came rocketing down Brooklyn
Bridge one night and without slowing down plowed right into the side of a
SUV once he exited the curb. SUV, as much as I don't like them, had the
green light and had every right to go. There was the dude, his track bike
mangled, his face leaving a huge dent in the driver side door of the SUV,
Keds, spoke cards flying everywhere, messenger bag, you get the picture.
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Date: 06 Nov 2007 12:21:59
From: limeylew@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
On Nov 5, 9:29 pm, Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pat...@yahoo.ca > wrote:
> On Nov 5, 6:05 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > Many drivers do not look for cyclists on the roads around here.
> > > Because they are not looking for them these drivers simply do not see
> > > a dark clothing wearing cyclist on a bicycle that is not lit by active
> > > lighting.
>
> > Of course they don't, but let's be clear, here. This is not the
> > drivers' fault. Most of you are drivers. Don't try to tell me that you
> > would look for a person on a bike, with no lights or reflectors, wearing
> > black. You might say "What the hell is that?" as you run into it, but
> > we cannot assume that drivers are clairvoyant, or have super x-ray
> > vision. As sad as any traffic death is, the driver is not at fault
> > under these conditions.
>
> > I recall last Fall driving along, in the rain, and just barely avoiding
> > an idiot riding, without lights, without reflectors, wearing black, at
> > night, in the rain. Now, natural selection should weed this out of the
> > gene pool, but until that happens it's gonna piss me off. Had I hit the
> > guy, I would have felt like shit --- even though there was no way I
> > could have prevented it. As it was, that guy is alive through dumb luck.
>
> > Most bikes come with reflectors, shit though they are. He had to go out
> > of his way to remove them, then had the idea of wearing black on a rainy
> > night.
>
> > > I urge all my friends to have a permanently mounted front and rear
> > > blinky as a mininum for riding *IN CASE THEY GET CAUGHT BY DARKNESS*
> > > especially during the shorter day-light days we are moving into.
>
> > Absolutely.
>
> > --
>
> > David L. Johnson
>
> Hi there.
>
> I most definitely did not mean to imply that I blame the drivers in
> either of these two accidents. What I was trying to say is that many
> drivers are not looking for bicyclists when the driver looks to see if
> there is another vehicle. If the bicyclist is wearing dark clothing
> and does not have an active light of some sort that bicyclist can be
> invisible to the driver.
>
> Another thing that I notice about many "Stealth Bicyclists" riding
> habits is that they ride on the sidewalks (still with the dark
> clothing and no lights or even passive reflectors) which makes them
> even more invisible when they suddenly decide to a) continue into an
> intersection without stopping or b) exit the sidewalk onto the road
> without even checking for any approaching vehicle.
>
> I am not surprised that these stealth bicyclist get hit. I am
> astounded that there are not more of them struck.
>
> I have decided to approach the local paper to see if they are
> interested in writing a short article on safe bicycling at night.
>
> Peter
With all due respect here, Peter, lets say you did talk the local
paper into writing this article.
WHO would read it ????
You, me, a couple of others, maybe but definitely NOT these people you
are bent on 'helping'.
Since you are "astounded that there are not more of them struck", why
could you not just accept this fact of life and move on? It would
make life less stressful for you. :-)
Kind regards.
Lewis.
*****
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 19:29:40
From: Sir Ridesalot
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
On Nov 5, 6:05 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > Many drivers do not look for cyclists on the roads around here.
> > Because they are not looking for them these drivers simply do not see
> > a dark clothing wearing cyclist on a bicycle that is not lit by active
> > lighting.
>
> Of course they don't, but let's be clear, here. This is not the
> drivers' fault. Most of you are drivers. Don't try to tell me that you
> would look for a person on a bike, with no lights or reflectors, wearing
> black. You might say "What the hell is that?" as you run into it, but
> we cannot assume that drivers are clairvoyant, or have super x-ray
> vision. As sad as any traffic death is, the driver is not at fault
> under these conditions.
>
> I recall last Fall driving along, in the rain, and just barely avoiding
> an idiot riding, without lights, without reflectors, wearing black, at
> night, in the rain. Now, natural selection should weed this out of the
> gene pool, but until that happens it's gonna piss me off. Had I hit the
> guy, I would have felt like shit --- even though there was no way I
> could have prevented it. As it was, that guy is alive through dumb luck.
>
> Most bikes come with reflectors, shit though they are. He had to go out
> of his way to remove them, then had the idea of wearing black on a rainy
> night.
>
>
>
> > I urge all my friends to have a permanently mounted front and rear
> > blinky as a mininum for riding *IN CASE THEY GET CAUGHT BY DARKNESS*
> > especially during the shorter day-light days we are moving into.
>
> Absolutely.
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
Hi there.
I most definitely did not mean to imply that I blame the drivers in
either of these two accidents. What I was trying to say is that many
drivers are not looking for bicyclists when the driver looks to see if
there is another vehicle. If the bicyclist is wearing dark clothing
and does not have an active light of some sort that bicyclist can be
invisible to the driver.
Another thing that I notice about many "Stealth Bicyclists" riding
habits is that they ride on the sidewalks (still with the dark
clothing and no lights or even passive reflectors) which makes them
even more invisible when they suddenly decide to a) continue into an
intersection without stopping or b) exit the sidewalk onto the road
without even checking for any approaching vehicle.
I am not surprised that these stealth bicyclist get hit. I am
astounded that there are not more of them struck.
I have decided to approach the local paper to see if they are
interested in writing a short article on safe bicycling at night.
Peter
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 15:15:36
From:
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
Around here they are usually "Wrong Way Jose's". No lights reflectors
etc. Riding the wrong way,on sidewalks etc. Sad to see one go down
but most of these P.O.B's contribute to their own demise.
On Nov 5, 11:33 am, Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pat...@yahoo.ca > wrote:
> Hi t here.
>
> I read recently in the local paper that yet another cyclist was struck
> whilst riding in the dark wearing dark-coloured clothing and without
> any lights or reflectors mounted on the bicycle.
>
> I really feel sorry for the bicyclist's family and especially the
> truck driver who most likely never even saw the bicyclist.
>
> I wonder if writing a letter to the paper imploring people to make
> more effort to be visible to other road users at night would help any?
>
> Another tragic accident that may well have been prevented with even
> very basic ligting on the bicycle.
>
> Peter
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 10:44:14
From: Sir Ridesalot
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
On Nov 5, 1:20 pm, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> "Pat" <Or...@starrynight.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5p94d8Fq893sU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> > I wonder if writing a letter to the paper imploring people to make
> >> > more effort to be visible to other road users at night would help any?
>
> >> I don't think so. If I person can't be bothered to think on his/her own
> >> behalf regarding safety, no amount of letter writing will help.
>
> > I went to a night-time parade last year, a Christmas lighting ceremony in
> > a
> > downtown area. Going back to the parking lot, some people were walking in
> > the street. I turned to one woman and said, "Do you know that with your
> > dark
> > clothes that you'll practically invisible walking down the middle of the
> > street like that?" and she was astonished! She hadn't even thought of it.
>
> > Pat in TX
>
> I can understand that, as people walking don't generally expect to walk in
> the middle of the street at night. But a cyclist riding a bike in the
> road...unless he/she got caught out unexpectedly.....
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi there.
It's getting caught unexpectedly by darkness that is the reason I
recommend a front and rear blinky (at least) be mounted on the bicycle
at all times.
However, the two cyclists that were hit that I have reported here were
not caught unexpectedly by darkness. They chose to ride in the dark
whilst wearing dark clothing and with out any lights.
Many drivers do not look for cyclists on the roads around here.
Because they are not looking for them these drivers simply do not see
a dark clothing wearing cyclist on a bicycle that is not lit by active
lighting.
I urge all my friends to have a permanently mounted front and rear
blinky as a mininum for riding *IN CASE THEY GET CAUGHT BY DARKNESS*
especially during the shorter day-light days we are moving into.
Losing the hour we did recently catches many bicyclists because they
have not yet adjusted to the earlier occurring darkness.
But, both these accidents happened before the clocks went back.
It is accidents like these that increase the general public's belief
that bicycling is dangerous.
I just wish there were more I could do the educate uninformed
bicyclists just how dangerous it is to wear dark clothing whilst
cycling at night with out any lights or even reflectors.
Peter
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 18:05:10
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> Many drivers do not look for cyclists on the roads around here.
> Because they are not looking for them these drivers simply do not see
> a dark clothing wearing cyclist on a bicycle that is not lit by active
> lighting.
Of course they don't, but let's be clear, here. This is not the
drivers' fault. Most of you are drivers. Don't try to tell me that you
would look for a person on a bike, with no lights or reflectors, wearing
black. You might say "What the hell is that?" as you run into it, but
we cannot assume that drivers are clairvoyant, or have super x-ray
vision. As sad as any traffic death is, the driver is not at fault
under these conditions.
I recall last Fall driving along, in the rain, and just barely avoiding
an idiot riding, without lights, without reflectors, wearing black, at
night, in the rain. Now, natural selection should weed this out of the
gene pool, but until that happens it's gonna piss me off. Had I hit the
guy, I would have felt like shit --- even though there was no way I
could have prevented it. As it was, that guy is alive through dumb luck.
Most bikes come with reflectors, shit though they are. He had to go out
of his way to remove them, then had the idea of wearing black on a rainy
night.
>
> I urge all my friends to have a permanently mounted front and rear
> blinky as a mininum for riding *IN CASE THEY GET CAUGHT BY DARKNESS*
> especially during the shorter day-light days we are moving into.
Absolutely.
--
David L. Johnson
And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you killed
all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds, thousands would
rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't kill that fast.
-- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).
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Date: 06 Nov 2007 08:25:17
From: dgk
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:05:10 -0500, "David L. Johnson"
<david.johnson@lehigh.edu > wrote:
>Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>
>> Many drivers do not look for cyclists on the roads around here.
>> Because they are not looking for them these drivers simply do not see
>> a dark clothing wearing cyclist on a bicycle that is not lit by active
>> lighting.
>
>Of course they don't, but let's be clear, here. This is not the
>drivers' fault. Most of you are drivers. Don't try to tell me that you
>would look for a person on a bike, with no lights or reflectors, wearing
>black. You might say "What the hell is that?" as you run into it, but
>we cannot assume that drivers are clairvoyant, or have super x-ray
>vision. As sad as any traffic death is, the driver is not at fault
>under these conditions.
>
>I recall last Fall driving along, in the rain, and just barely avoiding
>an idiot riding, without lights, without reflectors, wearing black, at
>night, in the rain. Now, natural selection should weed this out of the
>gene pool, but until that happens it's gonna piss me off. Had I hit the
>guy, I would have felt like shit --- even though there was no way I
>could have prevented it. As it was, that guy is alive through dumb luck.
>
>Most bikes come with reflectors, shit though they are. He had to go out
>of his way to remove them, then had the idea of wearing black on a rainy
>night.
>>
I removed the reflectors to mount real lights in their place, but
should put some reflectors on anyway.
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 15:17:35
From: Ben Pfaff
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu > writes:
> Most bikes come with reflectors, shit though they are. He had to go
> out of his way to remove them, then had the idea of wearing black on a
> rainy night.
Of the four bikes I have purchased at bike shops in California,
only two of them came from the shop with reflectors. This is
despite the fact that California state law requires bike shops to
sell bikes (new or used, if I recall correctly, but perhaps only
new) with a full complement of reflectors.
It doesn't excuse the bicyclist's stupidity, of course, but he
may not be *entirely* to blame on his bike's lack of reflectors.
--
Ben Pfaff
http://benpfaff.org
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Date: 06 Nov 2007 07:32:30
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
>
> It doesn't excuse the bicyclist's stupidity, of course, but he
> may not be *entirely* to blame on his bike's lack of reflectors.
> --
> Ben Pfaff
No! He is absolutely to blame for his bike's lack of reflectors! He
shouldn't have thrown a leg over the frame without being properly prepared
to ride where and when he chose to ride.
Pat in TX
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 14:13:34
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
"Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca > wrote in message
news:1194288254.998899.192670@z9g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 5, 1:20 pm, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Pat" <Or...@starrynight.com> wrote in message
>> >> > I wonder if writing a letter to the paper imploring people to make
>> >> > more effort to be visible to other road users at night would help
>> >> > any?
>>
>> >> I don't think so. If I person can't be bothered to think on his/her
>> >> own
>> >> behalf regarding safety, no amount of letter writing will help.
>>
>> > I went to a night-time parade last year, a Christmas lighting ceremony
>> > in
>> > a
>> > downtown area. Going back to the parking lot, some people were walking
>> > in
>> > the street. I turned to one woman and said, "Do you know that with your
>> > dark
>> > clothes that you'll practically invisible walking down the middle of
>> > the
>> > street like that?" and she was astonished! She hadn't even thought of
>> > it.
>>
>> > Pat in TX
>>
>> I can understand that, as people walking don't generally expect to walk
>> in
>> the middle of the street at night. But a cyclist riding a bike in the
>> road...unless he/she got caught out unexpectedly.....
>>
> Hi there.
>
> It's getting caught unexpectedly by darkness that is the reason I
> recommend a front and rear blinky (at least) be mounted on the bicycle
> at all times.
It would seem that any concerned, responsible, experienced, intelligent
cyclist wouldn't have to be told this. Perhaps these cyclist were newbies. I
do see lots of people like this, but they mostly ride on the wrong side of
the street, etc. Still, I'm doubtful you can educate them either.
>
> However, the two cyclists that were hit that I have reported here were
> not caught unexpectedly by darkness. They chose to ride in the dark
> whilst wearing dark clothing and with out any lights.
Any info as to the type of cyclist they were? Fred's, Lance-wannabees, or
just newbies? Kids?
>
> Many drivers do not look for cyclists on the roads around here.
> Because they are not looking for them these drivers simply do not see
> a dark clothing wearing cyclist on a bicycle that is not lit by active
> lighting.
Very understandable. If I were caught out, I'd be expecting this (even if I
were nearly invisible). I'd either stop and wait or go really slow. Even if
the drivers could not or did not see the cyclist, why didn't the cyclist see
them and act accordingly?
>
> I urge all my friends to have a permanently mounted front and rear
> blinky as a mininum for riding *IN CASE THEY GET CAUGHT BY DARKNESS*
> especially during the shorter day-light days we are moving into.
> Losing the hour we did recently catches many bicyclists because they
> have not yet adjusted to the earlier occurring darkness.
>
> But, both these accidents happened before the clocks went back.
>
> It is accidents like these that increase the general public's belief
> that bicycling is dangerous.
>
> I just wish there were more I could do the educate uninformed
> bicyclists just how dangerous it is to wear dark clothing whilst
> cycling at night with out any lights or even reflectors.
>
I applaud your willingness to serve others in this manner.
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 11:51:42
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
"Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca > wrote in message
> I wonder if writing a letter to the paper imploring people to make
> more effort to be visible to other road users at night would help any?
I don't think so. If I person can't be bothered to think on his/her own
behalf regarding safety, no amount of letter writing will help.
Think about it....you're riding at night and there's a truck coming your
way...you don't bother to consider if it's going to hit you or not? It's
beyond imagination, IMO.
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 12:05:08
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
> > I wonder if writing a letter to the paper imploring people to make
> > more effort to be visible to other road users at night would help any?
> I don't think so. If I person can't be bothered to think on his/her own
> behalf regarding safety, no amount of letter writing will help.
I went to a night-time parade last year, a Christmas lighting ceremony in a
downtown area. Going back to the parking lot, some people were walking in
the street. I turned to one woman and said, "Do you know that with your dark
clothes that you'll practically invisible walking down the middle of the
street like that?" and she was astonished! She hadn't even thought of it.
Pat in TX
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| | | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 13:20:57
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
"Pat" <Orion@starrynight.com > wrote in message
news:5p94d8Fq893sU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>> > I wonder if writing a letter to the paper imploring people to make
>> > more effort to be visible to other road users at night would help any?
>
>> I don't think so. If I person can't be bothered to think on his/her own
>> behalf regarding safety, no amount of letter writing will help.
>
> I went to a night-time parade last year, a Christmas lighting ceremony in
> a
> downtown area. Going back to the parking lot, some people were walking in
> the street. I turned to one woman and said, "Do you know that with your
> dark
> clothes that you'll practically invisible walking down the middle of the
> street like that?" and she was astonished! She hadn't even thought of it.
>
> Pat in TX
I can understand that, as people walking don't generally expect to walk in
the middle of the street at night. But a cyclist riding a bike in the
road...unless he/she got caught out unexpectedly.....
>
>
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| | | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 12:16:18
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
> I went to a night-time parade last year, a Christmas lighting ceremony in
a
> downtown area. Going back to the parking lot, some people were walking in
> the street. I turned to one woman and said, "Do you know that with your
dark
> clothes that you'll practically invisible walking down the middle of the
> street like that?" and she was astonished! She hadn't even thought of it.
>
> Pat in TX
er, that's supposed to be "you're practically invisible." Haven't had my
jalapenos yet today....
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| | | | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 13:25:44
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Another Stealth Cyclist hit.
|
"Pat" <Orion@starrynight.com > wrote in message
news:5p9520Fq9j5bU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>> I went to a night-time parade last year, a Christmas lighting ceremony in
> a
>> downtown area. Going back to the parking lot, some people were walking in
>> the street. I turned to one woman and said, "Do you know that with your
> dark
>> clothes that you'll practically invisible walking down the middle of the
>> street like that?" and she was astonished! She hadn't even thought of it.
>>
>> Pat in TX
>
> er, that's supposed to be "you're practically invisible." Haven't had my
> jalapenos yet today....
>
>
I actually read it the way you meant it, Pat. :)
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