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Date: 05 Feb 2007 21:47:11
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Broke A Chain!
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Riding in to work this morning I seemed to be getting a break from the weather. Although quite cold (around 0F I think, with a brisk wind allegedly putting wind chills down into the -teensF), the wind was from astern and I had virtually no wind chill effect. With the sun out, I was starting to sweat a bit as I headed up the hill towards Amherst center. Nearing the top, I down shifted and immediately had no gears at all! Looked down thinking the chain had come off the rings and noticed no chain at all! Walked back 15 feet and picked it up, hoping the masterlink was in place. It was (sort of). It's a SRAM PC48 chain of perhaps four years vintage. One half of the master link was still in the chain but the other half had only half of itself still in the chain. It had broken! I think this is the first time I've ever had a chain break on me. Walked into downtown Amherst to the local bike shop there only to find them closed. Must be shut down on Mondays during the winter, darn! Coasted down the other side of the hill and then walked the final half mile to my office. Bike stays in my nice warm office tonight instead of its normal frigid barn. Already ordered a new SRAM PC48 for it and will get a ride home via a coworker tonight. Will bring the bike back home via my "Global Warmer" later this week. Fortunately, I've got a reserve ice bike (with a PC48 chain that I guess I'd better look over closely!) to pedal until the new chain comes in from Performance. Wondered if a broken chain was anything the group found to be a common or rare event? Can you buy just replacement masterlinks from SRAM? Didn't see any on the Performance or Nashbar web pages. SMH
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Date: 08 Feb 2007 05:44:05
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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On Feb 5, 2:47 pm, Stephen Harding <smhardin...@msn.com > wrote: > Riding in to work this morning I seemed to be getting a > break from the weather. Although quite cold (around 0F > I think, with a brisk wind allegedly putting wind chills > down into the -teensF), the wind was from astern and I > had virtually no wind chill effect. > > With the sun out, I was starting to sweat a bit as I > headed up the hill towards Amherst center. Nearing the > top, I down shifted and immediately had no gears at all! > > Looked down thinking the chain had come off the rings > and noticed no chain at all! Walked back 15 feet and > picked it up, hoping the masterlink was in place. > > It was (sort of). > > It's a SRAM PC48 chain of perhaps four years vintage. > One half of the master link was still in the chain but > the other half had only half of itself still in the chain. > It had broken! > > I think this is the first time I've ever had a chain > break on me. > > Walked into downtown Amherst to the local bike shop there > only to find them closed. Must be shut down on Mondays > during the winter, darn! > > Coasted down the other side of the hill and then walked > the final half mile to my office. > > Bike stays in my nice warm office tonight instead of its > normal frigid barn. Already ordered a new SRAM PC48 for > it and will get a ride home via a coworker tonight. > > Will bring the bike back home via my "Global Warmer" later > this week. Fortunately, I've got a reserve ice bike (with > a PC48 chain that I guess I'd better look over closely!) > to pedal until the new chain comes in from Performance. > > Wondered if a broken chain was anything the group found to > be a common or rare event? Can you buy just replacement > masterlinks from SRAM? Didn't see any on the Performance > or Nashbar web pages. > > SMH Decent bike shops have Sram links..gotta ask why you just didn't go to the bike shop on Tuesday and buy a chain? How many miles on that 4 yr old chain, BTW-'maybe' time for a new one anyway.
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Date: 08 Feb 2007 14:42:56
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote: > Decent bike shops have Sram links..gotta ask why you just didn't go to > the bike shop on Tuesday and buy a chain? Appears to be closed during the winters until noon. More of an inconvenience to go back anyways. The chain will be on my porch inside of a week and I've got another bike in the meantime. > How many miles on that 4 yr old chain, BTW-'maybe' time for a new one > anyway. Not lots. I use that particular bike only for my occasional MTB forays and to have a bike if I travel somewhere (it goes in the back of my truck) or when I take a long weekend boating (it goes inside the boat for runs to tha's Vineyard or Block Island, etc.). Otherwise, it's a "bad weather" winter bike: for snowy icy days since it has studded knobby tires. So in short, last year about 600 miles. I believe I bought a new chain/cogset when I revived this bike 4 years ago from its former dumpster queen existence, so it's likely the cogset will have to be replaced along with the chain. Will wait and see how the chain sets in the cogs before deciding. SMH
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Date: 08 Feb 2007 01:26:27
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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"Stephen Harding" <smharding16@msn.com > wrote in message news:zBNxh.1657$177.473@trndny08... = > > Wondered if a broken chain was anything the group found to > be a common or rare event? Can you buy just replacement > masterlinks from SRAM? Didn't see any on the Performance > or Nashbar web pages. > > > SMH Riding along the Blue Ridge Parkway about 10 years ago my SRAM chain w/ master link very quietly laid itself out on the road behind me sans master link. Fortunately I had a spare in my seat bag and was back on the road in a bout 5 minutes. I've not had the opportunity to fix my own chain again on the road but I've helped two others since then. They are damn near weightless. Don't leave home without one. Not cheaper that a phone call but way more convenient. Bill
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 13:00:29
From: Alex Colvin
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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>It's a SRAM PC48 chain of perhaps four years vintage. >One half of the master link was still in the chain but >the other half had only half of itself still in the chain. >It had broken! Similar happened to me once. A bad shift with the front derailler and the link popped off. I usually try to carry a chain tool, but that time I had to phone for a ride. I'd prefer to avoid chains with (unique critical) master links. When I install an SRAM, I'll splce it out. Reminds me of Oliver Wendell Holmes' "The Deacon's Masterpiece" or "The Wonderful One-Hoss Shay" -- mac the naïf
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 13:17:53
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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On 2007-02-06, Alex Colvin <alexc@TheWorld.com > wrote: > I'd prefer to avoid chains with (unique critical) master links. When I > install an SRAM, I'll splce it out. I bought an SRAM replacement chain a couple years ago after running out of my stockpile of SedisSport chains. I didn't even realize it had a master link until I'd already pinned it together in the traditional manner. It's still sitting in my tool box someplace. -- John "Huh? What's this piece, then?" (john@os2.dhs.org)
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 13:59:35
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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Alex Colvin wrote: > I'd prefer to avoid chains with (unique critical) master links. When I > install an SRAM, I'll splce it out. You mean remove the masterlink altogether and use a pin instead? I hate those danged pins! Sooo many more ways to go wrong with it than with a masterlink IMHO. SMH
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 13:18:49
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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On 2007-02-06, Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com > wrote: > You mean remove the masterlink altogether and use a > pin instead? Yup. > I hate those danged pins! Sooo many more ways to go > wrong with it than with a masterlink IMHO. How so? I haven't had one fail in 30 years. -- John (john@os2.dhs.org)
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 16:42:18
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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John Thompson wrote: > On 2007-02-06, Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com> wrote: > >> You mean remove the masterlink altogether and use a >> pin instead? > > Yup. > >> I hate those danged pins! Sooo many more ways to go >> wrong with it than with a masterlink IMHO. > > How so? I haven't had one fail in 30 years. > The pins on Shimano chains discourage proper chain cleaning, since you have to replace it with a new one each time. The standard bins on most new chains do not work properly once you've pushed it out with a chain tool. The only chain I've had fail on me was the last one I used without a master link, 10 years ago or so. I have never had a problem with the "superlinks" supplied with SRAM chains. They break apart easily for cleaning, and so far, never failed me. -- David L. Johnson Let's be straight here. If we find something we can't understand we like to call it something you can't understand, or indeed even pronounce. -- Douglas Adams
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 22:03:41
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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David L. Johnson wrote: > John Thompson wrote: > >> On 2007-02-06, Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com> wrote: >> >> I hate those danged pins! Sooo many more ways to go >>> wrong with it than with a masterlink IMHO. >> >> How so? I haven't had one fail in 30 years. >> > The pins on Shimano chains discourage proper chain cleaning, since you > have to replace it with a new one each time. The standard bins on most > new chains do not work properly once you've pushed it out with a chain > tool. The only chain I've had fail on me was the last one I used > without a master link, 10 years ago or so. I have never had a problem > with the "superlinks" supplied with SRAM chains. They break apart > easily for cleaning, and so far, never failed me. My belief too. It's very convenient being able to take the chain off so easily (although I obvious don't do it as often as I should!). I also have found getting the pins back in and properly positioned can sometimes be a tricky. They need to be well centered and it's easy pushing the pin back in too far or not far enough. No doubt just me since I have a prejudice against them. SMH
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Date: 05 Feb 2007 23:48:23
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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Stephen Harding wrote: > It's a SRAM PC48 chain of perhaps four years vintage. 4 years! > Wondered if a broken chain was anything the group found to > be a common or rare event? Can you buy just replacement > masterlinks from SRAM? Didn't see any on the Performance > or Nashbar web pages. Breaking a chain is indeed a rare event--- but so is riding with the same chain for 4 years; unless you don't ride that bike much at all. Chains on geared bikes rarely last more than 2000 miles or so, and even that requires regular cleaning. Replace a chain when the measurement of 12 full links exceeds 12 + 1/16 inches. Waiting until 12 + 1/8 inch will often mean having to replace the cassette as well, which may very well be your fate. You'll be lucky to not have to replace the chainrings. Don't bother to replace just the master link. This chain is worn out, unless you only ride 500 miles/year. -- David L. Johnson Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You soon find out the pig likes it!
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 08:19:03
From: Fritz
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:48:23 -0500, "David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu > wrote: >Stephen Harding wrote: > >> It's a SRAM PC48 chain of perhaps four years vintage. > >4 years! > > >> Wondered if a broken chain was anything the group found to >> be a common or rare event? Can you buy just replacement >> masterlinks from SRAM? Didn't see any on the Performance >> or Nashbar web pages. > >Breaking a chain is indeed a rare event--- but so is riding with the >same chain for 4 years; unless you don't ride that bike much at all. >Chains on geared bikes rarely last more than 2000 miles or so, and even >that requires regular cleaning. Replace a chain when the measurement of I rarely ever could get 2000 miles on an SRAM chain. I switched over to Shimano chains with the sram quick link connector (Jenson bikes online sells them for about 4 bucks each) and I have logged over 3000 miles with only about a 1/32 of inch of stretch noted so far. When you switch out that chain with a new one be prepared to change the rear cogs too. 4 years! Wow.
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 17:57:19
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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Fritz wrote: > When you switch out that chain with a new one be prepared to change > the rear cogs too. 4 years! Wow. Yes, that's very possible [likely]. Because the chain and cogs wear together, I never fully know if a replacement chain will bring gearing back to spec. The cogs will tell you they need replacing when the new chain comes on and you still get lots of noise and some shifting roughness. If the rings are skipping teeth, they're telling you they need replacement as well! [Keep in mind these bikes are 6 speed freewheel or cassette or 7 speed cassette drivetrains. A big ring (usually from RaceFace) will set you back $25 all by itself, but not frequently while chains are $15 and a cogset/freewheel less than $25. I'm more attentive of my Trek 2000 with a 9 speed.] SMH
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 17:38:39
From: Road Dog
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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Fritz wrote: > > I rarely ever could get 2000 miles on an SRAM chain. I switched > over to Shimano chains with the sram quick link connector (Jenson > bikes online sells them for about 4 bucks each) and I have logged > over 3000 miles with only about a 1/32 of inch of stretch noted so > far. > > When you switch out that chain with a new one be prepared to change > the rear cogs too. 4 years! Wow. I have over 4000 miles and 5 years on an original Shimano 9sp chain. I take my share of hills, but then again, I'm only 130#.
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Date: 07 Feb 2007 17:27:06
From: Fred
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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"Road Dog" <noone@nowhere.com > wrote in message news:z23yh.19750$yx6.18792@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... > Fritz wrote: >> >> I rarely ever could get 2000 miles on an SRAM chain. I switched >> over to Shimano chains with the sram quick link connector (Jenson >> bikes online sells them for about 4 bucks each) and I have logged >> over 3000 miles with only about a 1/32 of inch of stretch noted so >> far. >> >> When you switch out that chain with a new one be prepared to change >> the rear cogs too. 4 years! Wow. > > I have over 4000 miles and 5 years on an original Shimano 9sp chain. > I take my share of hills, but then again, I'm only 130#. Same here on an 8 speed cassette - (apart from the 130 bit)
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 13:56:49
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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David L. Johnson wrote: > Stephen Harding wrote: > >> It's a SRAM PC48 chain of perhaps four years vintage. > > > 4 years! > > >> Wondered if a broken chain was anything the group found to >> be a common or rare event? Can you buy just replacement >> masterlinks from SRAM? Didn't see any on the Performance >> or Nashbar web pages. > > > Breaking a chain is indeed a rare event--- but so is riding with the > same chain for 4 years; unless you don't ride that bike much at all. > Chains on geared bikes rarely last more than 2000 miles or so, and even > that requires regular cleaning. Replace a chain when the measurement of > 12 full links exceeds 12 + 1/16 inches. Waiting until 12 + 1/8 inch > will often mean having to replace the cassette as well, which may very > well be your fate. You'll be lucky to not have to replace the chainrings. I think chains are good for better than that! I have no problem running chains on my road bikes for 3 years or so, paying more attention to lube than I do for the lesser ridden MTBs. I typically run the entire drive line down, letting them wear out together, then replace the chain and the cogs at once. Chain rings seem to be harder to wear than cogsets, so a ring can last a couple chain/cog replacement cycles. I put about 2500 mi/year and 1500 mi/year typically on my two priy rides (one road/one MTB). Chains last for 2+ years easily. > Don't bother to replace just the master link. This chain is worn out, > unless you only ride 500 miles/year. Probably about right for this particular bike. SMH
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 11:56:51
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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Stephen Harding wrote: > I have no problem running chains on my road bikes for > 3 years or so, paying more attention to lube than I do > for the lesser ridden MTBs. > > I typically run the entire drive line down, letting them > wear out together, then replace the chain and the cogs > at once. Chain rings seem to be harder to wear than > cogsets, so a ring can last a couple chain/cog replacement > cycles. This strikes me as false economy. Chains are available for $15 or $20 just about anywhere. Cassettes are more like $50, $100 for fancier ones like 10-speeds. Chainrings can cost $50 apiece. Frankly, tossing a chain every once in a while is a lot cheaper. > > I put about 2500 mi/year and 1500 mi/year typically on my > two priy rides (one road/one MTB). Chains last for > 2+ years easily. At your mileage I would be replacing 1 chain per year (per bike), and keeping the cassette for several years, and the chainrings for longer than that. -- David L. Johnson The motor car reflects our standard of living and gauges the speed of our present life. It long ago ran down Simple Living, and never halted to inquire about the prostrate figure which fell as its victim. -- Warren G. Harding
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 12:45:16
From: Pat Lamb
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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David L. Johnson wrote: > Stephen Harding wrote: >> >> I typically run the entire drive line down, letting them >> wear out together, then replace the chain and the cogs >> at once. Chain rings seem to be harder to wear than >> cogsets, so a ring can last a couple chain/cog replacement >> cycles. >> >> I put about 2500 mi/year and 1500 mi/year typically on my >> two priy rides (one road/one MTB). Chains last for >> 2+ years easily. > > This strikes me as false economy. Chains are available for $15 or $20 > just about anywhere. Cassettes are more like $50, $100 for fancier ones > like 10-speeds. Chainrings can cost $50 apiece. Frankly, tossing a > chain every once in a while is a lot cheaper. It's not that bad (forgive the citation reordering, but it makes the point a bit clearer). If Stephen runs 2-3 times longer on a $20 chain, he's not paying that much extra to replace a $50 cassette. And since we're talking about 7 or 8 speeds, if you replace a $20 cassette (Perf/bar house brand) and $15 chain, it's almost a wash. Pat
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 17:47:41
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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David L. Johnson wrote: > Stephen Harding wrote: >> >> I typically run the entire drive line down, letting them >> wear out together, then replace the chain and the cogs >> at once. Chain rings seem to be harder to wear than >> cogsets, so a ring can last a couple chain/cog replacement >> cycles. > > This strikes me as false economy. Chains are available for $15 or $20 > just about anywhere. Cassettes are more like $50, $100 for fancier ones > like 10-speeds. Chainrings can cost $50 apiece. Frankly, tossing a > chain every once in a while is a lot cheaper. Only my joy bike has 9 speed. The others are 6 and two 7 speed cassettes that run about $25. I think my procedure is quite cost efficient. You may be more correct in the "false economy" charge WRT my 9 speed bike. Never replaced the cogset so I'm not up on what they go for, but $50 for one might make me more attentive towards replacing the chain more frequently. >> I put about 2500 mi/year and 1500 mi/year typically on my >> two priy rides (one road/one MTB). Chains last for >> 2+ years easily. > > At your mileage I would be replacing 1 chain per year (per bike), and > keeping the cassette for several years, and the chainrings for longer > than that. I think that's way too frequent for a 7 speed cogset. In the 15 years I've owned my Trek 520 (my priy ride with the most miles per year on it), I've replaced the large ring 3 times, the middle ring twice and never replaced the small ring. Not certain how many times I've replaced the drive chain and cogset but perhaps 4 times (???). I really don't think I'd do a hole lot better with more frequent chain changes. I suppose if crisp shifting were more a requirement chain changes might be more critical, but I'm a "Fred Rider", so it's largely irrelevant. Until the rings start skipping teeth in gear during stand up climbs, they stay put; that's the indicator that a ring needs replacement for me! SMH
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Date: 05 Feb 2007 18:05:58
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 21:47:11 GMT, Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com > may have said: >Looked down thinking the chain had come off the rings >and noticed no chain at all! Walked back 15 feet and >picked it up, hoping the masterlink was in place. > >It was (sort of). > >It's a SRAM PC48 chain of perhaps four years vintage. Four years of commuting and you haven't had to replace the chain? Have you checked it for wear? >One half of the master link was still in the chain but >the other half had only half of itself still in the chain. >It had broken! > >I think this is the first time I've ever had a chain >break on me. >[snip] >Wondered if a broken chain was anything the group found to >be a common or rare event? IME, chain breakage is only common if the chain is badly worn or corroded. It's been nonexistent for me on chains that are in good condition. >Can you buy just replacement >masterlinks from SRAM? That depends on the dealer. *You* won't buy them direct from SRAM, but they are packaged and available for ordering by SRAM dealers through the normal distribution channels. >Didn't see any on the Performance >or Nashbar web pages. There are many more vendors out there. Those two just have the most advertising. KMC also makes a snaplink that works with most 8-speed chains (all that I've tried, anyway), and there are others around. -- My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 13:48:15
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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Werehatrack wrote: > On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 21:47:11 GMT, Stephen Harding > <smharding16@msn.com> may have said: > > >>Looked down thinking the chain had come off the rings >>and noticed no chain at all! Walked back 15 feet and >>picked it up, hoping the masterlink was in place. >> >>It was (sort of). >> >>It's a SRAM PC48 chain of perhaps four years vintage. > > > Four years of commuting and you haven't had to replace the chain? > > Have you checked it for wear? It was in good shape except for needed lube. Although it's four years old, it's on a bike I use for MTB/trucking/boating in summer and "bad weather" during winter, so it isn't used frequently like a general commuter. Other bikes get more miles on them. >>One half of the master link was still in the chain but >>the other half had only half of itself still in the chain. >>It had broken! >> >>I think this is the first time I've ever had a chain >>break on me. >>[snip] >>Wondered if a broken chain was anything the group found to >>be a common or rare event? > > IME, chain breakage is only common if the chain is badly worn or > corroded. It's been nonexistent for me on chains that are in good > condition. Corrosion is a definite possibility. Need to lube it more frequently. >>Can you buy just replacement >>masterlinks from SRAM? > > That depends on the dealer. *You* won't buy them direct from SRAM, > but they are packaged and available for ordering by SRAM dealers > through the normal distribution channels. > >>Didn't see any on the Performance >>or Nashbar web pages. > > There are many more vendors out there. Those two just have the most > advertising. > > KMC also makes a snaplink that works with most 8-speed chains (all > that I've tried, anyway), and there are others around. Think I saw the KMC in Nashbar/Performance but wasn't sure as to compatibility issue with SRAM and with 7 speed chains. I think 6/7/8 are all compatible but am not certain. SMH
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Date: 05 Feb 2007 14:55:12
From: blue_x21@usa.com
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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I hate it when I have to repair the bike in bad weather conditions! Yes, I've had a SRAM masterlink fall apart over three years ago, but I think it was because I did not install it correctly. When the chain fell off I never found one half of the link. So now I carry a spare masterlink in my toolcase and I always take care to lube the masterlink when I lube the chain. Funny thing, but since that time, I've never had to use the spare. Rick
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 13:43:27
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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blue_x21@usa.com wrote: > I hate it when I have to repair the bike in bad weather conditions! > Yes, I've had a SRAM masterlink fall apart over three years ago, but I > think it was because I did not install it correctly. When the chain > fell off I never found one half of the link. So now I carry a spare > masterlink in my toolcase and I always take care to lube the > masterlink when I lube the chain. Funny thing, but since that time, > I've never had to use the spare. I think lack of lube might have been a contributing factor. The chain has been "squealing" a bit for a week but I just hadn't gotten around to dumping some sort of lube on it. Since it's an ice bike, the drive line gets a lot of abuse with slush and salt, and although we haven't had much snow, we have had some ice and the attendant salt on the roads which will rust up the chain real quick. An inability to easily pivot at the pins might have helped the chain come apart, although I'm a bit perplexed at one half of the link actually breaking. Live and learn! SMH
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Date: 05 Feb 2007 20:47:34
From: Chris Y.F.N.W.
Subject: Re: Broke A Chain!
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I'vge never had any brand of "masterlink" break in tens of thousands of miles. I always carry a spare, though. just in case ANY of the links break. It makes a great lightweight chain repair/replacement - - Compliments of: "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman" If you want to E-mail me use: ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net My website: http://geocities.com/czcorner
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