Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

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Date: 14 Nov 2006 11:45:05
From: erasmo
Subject: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

hi dear Forum:

what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?

i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
(panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)

thank you for any comment :-)

greetings

--
http://erasmo.r8.org

Date: 15 Nov 2006 22:03:58
From: erasmo
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

hi dear Posters:

thank you very much for your very enlightening and interesting opinions
:-)

i usually ride only with a little bag attached to the top tube carrying
a spare tube, bomb and tools for changing the tube. I also use a second
little bag (a la hiking), this one attached to my lower back, where i
carry my "e-pack" (GPS, digital camera and PDA+phone)

so i am in no need for racks (front or back). As i rest in hotels (and
eat where available on the road), i do not find the need of travelling
with more than has been already described

as you see, i ride what could be termed "ultra-light". Sometimes (warm
season) i do not even carry a jacket [the body-generated heat is
usually enough for calefaction purposes on the road :-)]. If i needed a
jacket, it can be accomodated folded in my small hiking back bag

thank you

On Nov 15, 10:30 pm, "bfd" <bfd...@comcast.net > wrote:
> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetrem...@jt10000.com> wrote in messagenews:qfmnl257mt1j646uc2u8p9hvlpbri43dfd@4ax.com...
>
> > On 15 Nov 2006 10:52:20 -0800, "bfd" <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>erasmo wrote:
> >>> hi dear Forum:
>
> >>> what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
> >>> non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
>
> >>> i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
> >>> kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
> >>> frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
> >>> road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
> >>> (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
>
> >>If money is no object, you may want to consider the Parlee/Cycle
> >>Tournesol carbone. Its designed to use a front rack
>
> > Why would he want a front rack?
> > --Good question. Nevertheless, the Parlee/Cycle Tournesol front end design can
> be designed according to whether a front bag and/or rack will be used.
> Since the OP is planning on doing *non-luggage* TOURING, he may want the
> option of carrying extra gear, food, map, camera, etc.

Date: 15 Nov 2006 14:11:02
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

bfd wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > bfd wrote:
> > > erasmo wrote:
> > > > hi dear Forum:
> > > >
> > > > what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
> > > > non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
> > > >
> > > > i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
> > > > kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
> > > > frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
> > > > road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
> > > > (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
> > > >
> > > If money is no object, you may want to consider the Parlee/Cycle
> > > Tournesol carbone. Its designed to use a front rack and/or seatbag and
> > > will take tires as wide as 27mm with fenders. Of course, at $6500, its
> > > definitely not cheap!
> > >
> >
> > Now that's a carbon bike I like! The price isn't insane considering the
> > small production, not that I've got that sort of dosh...I like the
> > fender mounting, the fork crown, and the focus on using the material
> > for efficiency and comfort, instead of trying to be stupid light. Good
> > stuff.
>
> Agree. The frame is made by Bob Parlee and along with Craig Calfee and
> Nic Crumpton make arguably one of the best carbon fiber frames on the
> ket. Add in a Wound-Up carbon fork and you have the clearance for
> fenders and 25-28mm tires. At 18lbs, it is NOT LIGHT; at least in
> comparison with some of the superlight stuff coming out of Taiwan.

18 pounds for a sane road bike with fenders is light. Heck, anything
under 20# strikes me as light enough to not bother going lighter.
That's sling it over your shoulder with your messenger bag and climb a
four story walk-up without thinking about it light.

Where did they put the "spare four pounds" anyway?

Date: 15 Nov 2006 14:02:26
From: bfd
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

landotter wrote:
> bfd wrote:
> > erasmo wrote:
> > > hi dear Forum:
> > >
> > > what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
> > > non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
> > >
> > > i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
> > > kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
> > > frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
> > > road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
> > > (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
> > >
> > If money is no object, you may want to consider the Parlee/Cycle
> > Tournesol carbone. Its designed to use a front rack and/or seatbag and
> > will take tires as wide as 27mm with fenders. Of course, at $6500, its
> > definitely not cheap!
> >
>
> Now that's a carbon bike I like! The price isn't insane considering the
> small production, not that I've got that sort of dosh...I like the
> fender mounting, the fork crown, and the focus on using the material
> for efficiency and comfort, instead of trying to be stupid light. Good
> stuff.

Agree. The frame is made by Bob Parlee and along with Craig Calfee and
Nic Crumpton make arguably one of the best carbon fiber frames on the
ket. Add in a Wound-Up carbon fork and you have the clearance for
fenders and 25-28mm tires. At 18lbs, it is NOT LIGHT; at least in
comparison with some of the superlight stuff coming out of Taiwan.

Date: 15 Nov 2006 13:44:03
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

bfd wrote:
> erasmo wrote:
> > hi dear Forum:
> >
> > what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
> > non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
> >
> > i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
> > kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
> > frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
> > road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
> > (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
> >
> If money is no object, you may want to consider the Parlee/Cycle
> Tournesol carbone. Its designed to use a front rack and/or seatbag and
> will take tires as wide as 27mm with fenders. Of course, at $6500, its
> definitely not cheap!
>

Now that's a carbon bike I like! The price isn't insane considering the
small production, not that I've got that sort of dosh...I like the
fender mounting, the fork crown, and the focus on using the material
for efficiency and comfort, instead of trying to be stupid light. Good
stuff.

Date: 15 Nov 2006 10:52:20
From: bfd
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

Date: 15 Nov 2006 22:24:54
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

On 15 Nov 2006 10:52:20 -0800, "bfd" <bfd853@yahoo.com > wrote:

>erasmo wrote:
>> hi dear Forum:
>>
>> what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
>> non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
>>
>> i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
>> kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
>> frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
>> road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
>> (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
>>
>If money is no object, you may want to consider the Parlee/Cycle
>Tournesol carbone. Its designed to use a front rack

Why would he want a front rack?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 15 Nov 2006 20:30:26
From: bfd
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote in message
news:qfmnl257mt1j646uc2u8p9hvlpbri43dfd@4ax.com...
> On 15 Nov 2006 10:52:20 -0800, "bfd" <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>erasmo wrote:
>>> hi dear Forum:
>>>
>>> what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
>>> non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
>>>
>>> i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
>>> kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
>>> frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
>>> road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
>>> (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
>>>
>>If money is no object, you may want to consider the Parlee/Cycle
>>Tournesol carbone. Its designed to use a front rack
>
> Why would he want a front rack?
> --
Good question. Nevertheless, the Parlee/Cycle Tournesol front end design can
be designed according to whether a front bag and/or rack will be used.
Since the OP is planning on doing *non-luggage* TOURING, he may want the
option of carrying extra gear, food, map, camera, etc.

Date: 16 Nov 2006 07:15:46
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:30:26 -0800, "bfd" <bfd853@comcast.net > wrote:

>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote in message
>news:qfmnl257mt1j646uc2u8p9hvlpbri43dfd@4ax.com...
>> On 15 Nov 2006 10:52:20 -0800, "bfd" <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>erasmo wrote:
>>>> hi dear Forum:
>>>>
>>>> what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
>>>> non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
>>>>
>>>> i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
>>>> kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
>>>> frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
>>>> road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
>>>> (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
>>>>
>>>If money is no object, you may want to consider the Parlee/Cycle
>>>Tournesol carbone. Its designed to use a front rack
>>
>> Why would he want a front rack?
>> --
>Good question. Nevertheless, the Parlee/Cycle Tournesol front end design can
>be designed according to whether a front bag and/or rack will be used.
>Since the OP is planning on doing *non-luggage* TOURING, he may want the
>option of carrying extra gear, food, map, camera, etc.

Seems to me it's just the opposite and he's explictly saying he
doesn't want to carry anything on the bike other than himself.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 16 Nov 2006 08:15:46
From: bfd
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote in message
news:4hlol2dcb71iandj60d17vf80923osimsl@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:30:26 -0800, "bfd" <bfd853@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote in message
>>news:qfmnl257mt1j646uc2u8p9hvlpbri43dfd@4ax.com...
>>> On 15 Nov 2006 10:52:20 -0800, "bfd" <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>erasmo wrote:
>>>>> hi dear Forum:
>>>>>
>>>>> what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
>>>>> non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
>>>>>
>>>>> i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
>>>>> kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
>>>>> frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
>>>>> road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
>>>>> (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
>>>>>
>>>>If money is no object, you may want to consider the Parlee/Cycle
>>>>Tournesol carbone. Its designed to use a front rack
>>>
>>> Why would he want a front rack?
>>> --
>>Good question. Nevertheless, the Parlee/Cycle Tournesol front end design
>>can
>>be designed according to whether a front bag and/or rack will be used.
>>Since the OP is planning on doing *non-luggage* TOURING, he may want the
>>option of carrying extra gear, food, map, camera, etc.
>
> Seems to me it's just the opposite and he's explictly saying he
> doesn't want to carry anything on the bike other than himself.
> --
After reading his last post, I agree. If that's the case, just about any
carbon bike would appear to fit the bill. I recommend he check out the
latest Trek OCLV.

Date: 14 Nov 2006 18:34:12
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

Date: 14 Nov 2006 15:59:10
From: bdbafh
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 14 Nov 2006 12:48:41 -0800, "bdbafh" <bdbafh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >erasmo wrote:
> >> hi dear Forum:
> >>
> >> what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
> >> non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
> >>
> >> i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
> >> kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
> >> frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
> >> road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
> >> (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
> >>
> >> thank you for any comment :-)
> >>
> >> greetings
> >>
> >> --
> >> http://erasmo.r8.org
> >
> >Typically, a rack position over the rear wheel requires mounting to
> >eyelets on the frame.
>
> What makes you think the OP is using a rack?
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************

I misread the post.

-bdbafh

Date: 14 Nov 2006 13:00:15
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

erasmo wrote:
> hi dear Forum:
>
> what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
> non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
>
> i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
> kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
> frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
> road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
> (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
>
> thank you for any comment :-)

A good seat bag or bar bag will be necessary to carry essentials that
aren't on the sag wagon. They tend to not complain about frame
material.

Only drawbacks would be if you're riding at a touring pace, but on a
machine set up to be high zoot race. While very low bars, ultra skinny
saddes and the like are just the thing when your body is being held
up by hard hammering, they can become uncomfortable at less than a full
out pace. May or may not be an issue for you. You'll also want to carry
a spare folding tire unless you managed to squeeze something more
rugged into that frame.

Date: 14 Nov 2006 12:48:41
From: bdbafh
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

erasmo wrote:
> hi dear Forum:
>
> what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
> non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
>
> i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
> kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
> frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
> road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
> (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
>
> thank you for any comment :-)
>
> greetings
>
> --
> http://erasmo.r8.org

Typically, a rack position over the rear wheel requires mounting to
eyelets on the frame.
These eyelets are typically brazed onto a metal frame.
It is not possible to braze eyelets onto a carbon fiber frame.

One work-around when using a carbon fiber frame is to use a clamp-on
rear rack, which attaches to the seatpost.
It is recommended by at least one rack and one seatpost manufacturer
that clamp-on racks not be used with carbon fiber seat posts. An in
expensive substitute aluminium seat post will work just fine.
Some rack/pack units provide smallish panniers integrated with the
rack.

I've used one before (Specialized Roubaix, Topeak MTX rack beam and
bag) with good results but carried additional stuff in a largish
backpack/hydration unit.
The (max) weight limit that I saw described was "20 lbs loading".

hth.

-bdbafh

Date: 14 Nov 2006 18:38:17
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?

On 14 Nov 2006 12:48:41 -0800, "bdbafh" <bdbafh@gmail.com > wrote:

>
>erasmo wrote:
>> hi dear Forum:
>>
>> what do you think about using a Carbon Frame (Benotto Black Jack) for
>> non-luggage touring (cyclo-tourism) ?
>>
>> i have read opinions for and against the use of carbon frames in this
>> kind of cycling, but i would like to ask you if you think a carbon
>> frame could be reliable (in the long run) up to the task of riding on
>> road (not trail or MTB) for 100-125 miles/day, but without lugagge
>> (panniers et al), just the cyclist (i plan to rest at hotels)
>>
>> thank you for any comment :-)
>>
>> greetings
>>
>> --
>> http://erasmo.r8.org
>
>Typically, a rack position over the rear wheel requires mounting to
>eyelets on the frame.

What makes you think the OP is using a rack?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 14 Nov 2006 11:56:08
From: gds
Subject: Re: Carbon Frame for non-luggage touring ?