Comfy performance bikes

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Date: 07 Jul 2007 18:48:57
From: Zen Cohen
Subject: Comfy performance bikes

I like to ride fast but now that I'm in my 40's my body doesn't withstand
the road shocks as well. Are bikes like Specialized Roubaix, Trek Pilot and
Cannondale Synapse really that more comfortable than road bikes with racing
configs? I rode a Roubaix around the LBS parking lot and it felt pretty good
but the only way to really know is on a longer road ride.

Comments appreciated.

Date: 11 Jul 2007 00:23:47
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:03:35 -0500, DougC wrote:

>
> The solution he offered was was "ride with [your] hands on the brake
> hoods"... I haven't rode a Zenetic, but I do own a Fusion and I can say
> that the difference goes way beyond "riding a regular bike on the hoods".

Don't get your shorts--padded or otherwise--in a twist. My reference to
my setup and riding position was just so you'd know where I was coming
from. It's hardly a *solution* for *you*. It's the set-up I like and
prefer and find actually very comfortable, thanks very much.

Obviously nothing short of a recumbent gets you on two wheels. More power
(and less wind resistance!) to you. If your preferred bicycle puts a grin
on your face without putting a crease in your shorts, then I'm happy for
you.

What I don't understand is the need to grimace with rage when anyone
suggests that one might be comfortable on anything but a recumbent
bicycle. I am comfortable enough on my ride to ride it all day with
a smile on my face--even in liquorbike clothes. If you don't believe
that, I don't know what else to tell you.

Would I like to try a recumbent one of these days? Sure, if the price is
right. I'm familiar with the usual upsides--comfort, aerodynamics, and so
forth. Many designs really intrigue me.

But here's the kicker: the barrier to entry is pretty high. Recumbents
are more expensive compared to comparable conventional diamond-frame
bicycles. And, again, since nothing compels me to consider a recumbent--I
get by very well with diamond-frame uprights--it's not a priority. If,
however, I was unable to ride anything but a recumbent for whatever
reason, it's a simple choice: I'd get the recumbent. I'd hate not to be
able to ride a bicycle *at all*.

Now you can argue till you're blue in the face about the reasons why
recumbents aren't more widespread--UCI conspiracies and the rest of it.
But none of that wishful thinking translates into dollars in my pocket or
shooting pains in my backside--the two things which, jointly or singly,
would make me consider a new type of bicycle.

=-Luigi

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Date: 09 Jul 2007 15:34:32
From: catzz66
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

Zen Cohen wrote:
> I like to ride fast but now that I'm in my 40's my body doesn't withstand
> the road shocks as well. Are bikes like Specialized Roubaix, Trek Pilot and
> Cannondale Synapse really that more comfortable than road bikes with racing
> configs? I rode a Roubaix around the LBS parking lot and it felt pretty good
> but the only way to really know is on a longer road ride.
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
>

The Roubaix on 25 tires seems smoother on chip seal roads than my
regular bike, an Allez Elite on 23 tires. Wheelbase is a little longer
on the Roubaix, so it also feels more stable. Other than that, I am not
sure that I can tell a huge difference for the extra cost, but the ride
is somewhat more comfortable, in my opinion. If you could try it out on
rougher roads, you might be able to draw your own, better conclusions.
Also, when I was looking around, there was one base model Roubaix that
was aluminum. All the others were CF.

Date: 09 Jul 2007 17:03:12
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:14:56 -0500, DougC wrote:

> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>>
>> My ass isn't exactly the same as yours; why should my saddle be?
>>
>
> Believe it or not--there are bicycles that basically only come available
> with ONE seat, and that seat is comfortable enough for the vast majority
> of humanity.
>
> The RANS Zenetic is one such bicycle (although I think there are plastic
> and carbon-fiber versions, so I suppose that's two seats).
> ~

RANS recumbents are not universally available. I can't justify the
additional cost and hassle (won't fit on bike racks on buses/cars/trains,
etc.)

They're perfectly sensible bicycles, I'm sure, but the fact is that saddle
pain is not a problem if you learn to set up your (diamond-frame) bicycle
correctly.

In my case, it's a cheap fix: study, some time with an allen wrench, and
off I go.

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Date: 09 Jul 2007 19:06:07
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

Luigi de Guzman wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:14:56 -0500, Doug Cimper wrote:
>
>> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>>> My ass isn't exactly the same as yours; why should my saddle be?
>>>
>> Believe it or not--there are bicycles that basically only come available
>> with ONE seat, and that seat is comfortable enough for the vast majority
>> of humanity.
>>
>> The RANS Zenetic is one such bicycle (although I think there are plastic
>> and carbon-fiber versions, so I suppose that's two seats).
>> ~
>
> RANS recumbents are not universally available. I can't justify the
> additional cost and hassle (won't fit on bike racks on buses/cars/trains,
> etc.)

Er, the RANS Zenetic is a "crank forward" upright, not a recumbent:
<http://www.ransbikes.com/07ZTour.htm >.

> They're perfectly sensible bicycles, I'm sure, but the fact is that saddle
> pain is not a problem if you learn to set up your (diamond-frame) bicycle
> correctly.

For many this may be true. For those who it is not, they likely give up
on cycling, which is unfortunate.

> In my case, it's a cheap fix: study, some time with an allen wrench, and
> off I go.

The proper generic term is "hex key" (right "gotbent").

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Date: 14 Jul 2007 23:48:17
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:4692c144$0$16404$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>> On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:14:56 -0500, Doug Cimper wrote:
>>
>>> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>>>> My ass isn't exactly the same as yours; why should my saddle be?
>>> Believe it or not--there are bicycles that basically only come available
>>> with ONE seat, and that seat is comfortable enough for the vast majority
>>> of humanity.
>>>
>>> The RANS Zenetic is one such bicycle (although I think there are plastic
>>> and carbon-fiber versions, so I suppose that's two seats).
>>> ~
>>
>> RANS recumbents are not universally available. I can't justify the
>> additional cost and hassle (won't fit on bike racks on buses/cars/trains,
>> etc.)
>
> Er, the RANS Zenetic is a "crank forward" upright, not a recumbent:
> <http://www.ransbikes.com/07ZTour.htm>.

These type of bikes are an abomination. For Christ's sakes, either get a
proper recumbent or stay on your god damn uprights!
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Date: 10 Jul 2007 07:27:33
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
> RANS recumbents are not universally available. I can't justify the
> additional cost and hassle (won't fit on bike racks on buses/cars/trains,
> etc.)
>
If you are one who is having comfort issues on a normal bike and you go
and buy another normal bike, you're going to get the same old aches and
pains. Bikes that LOOK the same, HURT the same to ride. Buying a
more-expensive bike doesn't even help; expensive bikes are lighter, but
they're not any more comfortable.

As for the bike rack issue, some have said these bikes fit into a
regular bike rack if you flip the front wheel around backwards--but for
many people, the transportation aspect may not even be an issue at all.

> They're perfectly sensible bicycles, I'm sure, but the fact is that saddle
> pain is not a problem if you learn to set up your (diamond-frame) bicycle
> correctly.
>

Sorry, not true.
We will know the bike companies have figured out how to make a
comfortable saddle when all the bike shops stop selling padded shorts.

> In my case, it's a cheap fix: study, some time with an allen wrench, and
> off I go.
>

How many riders in the TdF are using padded shorts this year?
Why don't you drop on by pre-race and bring your allen wrench, since
they seem to be too stupid to figure out things themselves.....
~

Date: 10 Jul 2007 18:04:23
From: Booker C. Bense
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

In article <oVKki.4$VP7.0@newsfe04.lga >, DougC <dcimper@norcom2000.com> wrote:

>
>How many riders in the TdF are using padded shorts this year?
>Why don't you drop on by pre-race and bring your allen wrench, since
>they seem to be too stupid to figure out things themselves.....
>~

I'm sorry Doug, but that just won't do. We have standards here at
rec.bicycling.* and if you wish to hold the position of resident
recumbent crank, you're going to have to do much better. Your
posts have gotten repetive and boring, they lack style and panache.
The padded shorts thing just isn't working in the long run. I
suggest adding some black helicopters and a touch of "UCI
conspiracy" to your posts.

It might be helpful to spend some time at the google archives
studying some of the master works of previous holders of the
position...

_ Booker C. Bense

Date: 10 Jul 2007 19:03:35
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

Booker C. Bense wrote:
>
> I'm sorry Doug, but that just won't do. We have standards here at
> rec.bicycling.* and if you wish to hold the position of resident
> recumbent crank, you're going to have to do much better. Your
> posts have gotten repetive and boring, they lack style and panache.

I'd have engaged Luigi in a debate, but he doesn't seem to have ever
owned or even tried riding the bicycle in question, or anything like it.

The solution he offered was was "ride with [your] hands on the brake
hoods"... I haven't rode a Zenetic, but I do own a Fusion and I can say
that the difference goes way beyond "riding a regular bike on the hoods".

> The padded shorts thing just isn't working in the long run.
>

Yea, I know--it didn't work for me either. That's why I switched to
bicycles that don't require them.
~

Date: 09 Jul 2007 00:45:34
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 16:21:02 -0700, Tom Keats wrote:

> In article <1392s2mr3ubhm00@news.supernews.com>,
> "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> writes:
>> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>>:: Saddle comfort is a major issue and can be solved with patience.
>>
>> You seem to have left out the part about $$$.
>
> We don't like to think about that ;-)

Think of the weight savings when you remove all that cash from your wallet!

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Date: 09 Jul 2007 00:45:08
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:16:31 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote:

> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
> :: Saddle comfort is a major issue and can be solved with patience.
>
> You seem to have left out the part about $$$.

Don't know. Maybe I have a standard-issue posterior, but I've had good
luck with simply adjusting my saddle to a point where it works on my bike.

I'll have to spend some dosh to get a new saddle for the old bike,
though--that never did work for me, and now that I know what *does*, I'll
be sure to get it.

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Date: 08 Jul 2007 16:59:02
From: MsJimmi
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

On Jul 7, 6:48 pm, "Zen Cohen" <atu...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I like to ride fast but now that I'm in my 40's my body doesn't withstand
> the road shocks as well. Are bikes like Specialized Roubaix, Trek Pilot and
> Cannondale Synapse really that more comfortable than road bikes with racing
> configs? I rode a Roubaix around the LBS parking lot and it felt pretty good
> but the only way to really know is on a longer road ride.
>
> Comments appreciated.

Great comments in your responses. You would do well to take from that
and use what will serve you best.. Maybe your bike shop will let you
try a longer ride on your favorite..
My comments: A well fitted bike, saddle and wheel/tire combination.
I ride a carbon fiber Calfee Luna pro, with Krysrium wheels, Vrenstein
tires at suggested air pressure. You're just a kid in your forties.
I'm almost 60, had back surgery, both knees scoped and have a t-
shaped plate holding my wrist together..I manage to get in 150-200
miles a week. I also have a profile bar on the bike for riding the
flats, sprinting and it also lets me stretch out my back on longer
rides.
Don't forget good padded gloves for hands and of course a great
helmet!! Be safe out there and keep on pedaling! Lyn

Date: 08 Jul 2007 16:21:02
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

In article <1392s2mr3ubhm00@news.supernews.com >,
"Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > writes:
> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>:: Saddle comfort is a major issue and can be solved with patience.
>
> You seem to have left out the part about $$$.

We don't like to think about that ;-)

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 08 Jul 2007 22:19:04
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 16:40:10 -0500, DougC wrote:

>
> Saddle comfort is a major issue that a lot of riders have, and most bike
> shops can't seem to solve it. If they could they'd only need to sell ONE
> saddle, and they wouldn't bother sticking any padded shorts, because
> nobody would ever want to buy them.

My ass isn't exactly the same as yours; why should my saddle be?

Or, less churlishly:

Human beings come in a number of shapes and sizes, from the tiny (my
babybro on his new bike) to the immense (the redoubtable Chalo Collina,
rec.bicycles.* regular). Surely you're not suggesting that the same
saddle fits *all* of these people?

Why, if what you're saying is true, I've been wasting my time all these
years buying shoes that fit my feet, gloves that fit my hands, hats that
fit my head...I should just be using all your stuff instead!

Saddle comfort is a major issue and can be solved with patience. Sadly,
patience is the one thing that is in increasingly short supply in this day
and age.

-Luigi

> (synthetic shorts are still a good idea for the moisture-wicking benefit)
> ~

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Date: 09 Jul 2007 11:14:56
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
> My ass isn't exactly the same as yours; why should my saddle be?
>

Believe it or not--there are bicycles that basically only come available
with ONE seat, and that seat is comfortable enough for the vast majority
of humanity.

The RANS Zenetic is one such bicycle (although I think there are plastic
and carbon-fiber versions, so I suppose that's two seats).
~

Date: 09 Jul 2007 19:00:44
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

Doug Cimper wrote:
> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>>
>> My ass isn't exactly the same as yours; why should my saddle be?
>
> Believe it or not--there are bicycles that basically only come available
> with ONE seat, and that seat is comfortable enough for the vast majority
> of humanity.
>
> The RANS Zenetic is one such bicycle (although I think there are plastic
> and carbon-fiber versions, so I suppose that's two seats).

I doubt that the Zenetic seat is as comfortable as the one on my RANS
Rocket.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Date: 08 Jul 2007 19:16:31
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

Luigi de Guzman wrote:
:: Saddle comfort is a major issue and can be solved with patience.

You seem to have left out the part about $$$.

Date: 08 Jul 2007 09:56:02
From: rdclark
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

On Jul 7, 9:48 pm, "Zen Cohen" <atu...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I like to ride fast but now that I'm in my 40's my body doesn't withstand
> the road shocks as well. Are bikes like Specialized Roubaix, Trek Pilot and
> Cannondale Synapse really that more comfortable than road bikes with racing
> configs? I rode a Roubaix around the LBS parking lot and it felt pretty good
> but the only way to really know is on a longer road ride.
>
> Comments appreciated.

Seriously, ditto the comments about tires. I'm an arthritic 55-year
old who still rides thousands of road miles a year (mostly urban
commuting) on touring bikes with 700x32c or 700x35c touring tires. The
combination of fatter tires and relatively compliant frames (one ti,
one steel) give these bikes all the shock-resistance they need, as
long as I don't ride purposefully over severe obstacles without
unloading the saddle by distributing my weight between hands and feet
and letting my knees fles over the bumps. Springs would just make the
bike heavier and harder to maintain with no benefit.

The arthritis in my hands has made it especially important to remember
my padded gloves, but they're secondary to the benefit of riding with
a light grip, something I trained myself to do long ago.

I would hate to give up the versatility of drop bars; their variety of
available hand positions is a real benefit to me.

r

Date: 08 Jul 2007 16:34:49
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:48:57 -0700, Zen Cohen wrote:

> I like to ride fast but now that I'm in my 40's my body doesn't withstand
> the road shocks as well. Are bikes like Specialized Roubaix, Trek Pilot and
> Cannondale Synapse really that more comfortable than road bikes with racing
> configs? I rode a Roubaix around the LBS parking lot and it felt pretty good
> but the only way to really know is on a longer road ride.
>
> Comments appreciated.

Consider a touring bike; a bit longer wheelbase (stability rather than
twitchiness on long rides), slacker frame angles (ditto), wider-range
gearing, clearance for wider tires. You still get drops for the fun of
all the nice hand positions, and they're sportier than sit-up-and-beg
bikes.

Fuji Touring, Trek 520, Jamis Aurora and the like will fit the bill. I
ride a 2001 Jamis Aurora and love it to bits.

Cyclocross bikes will be a bit more aggressive in their frame angles, but
make fairly good all-rounders.

I can't stress the tires enough: nothing has a bigger effect on how the
bike feels rolling down the road than the tires; narrow tires a
super-high pressures will really beat you up on broken pavement. too-wide
tires with too-low pressures (& floppy sidewalls/tread) will be a drag.
Test ride a few and see what you can live with.

-Luigi

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Date: 08 Jul 2007 16:30:53
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 04:38:27 -0500, DougC wrote:

> http://www.ransbikes.com/07ZPRO.htm#
>
> -no padded shorts required,

I don't wear padded shorts on my bike; I took it out for a fifty-odd mile
jaunt a bit ago and my lungs and legs hurt more than my perineum.

The main benefit of cycling shorts, I find, is the decreased chafing (from
repeated pedal strokes). The padding is an added bonus, but not strictly
*necessary* if your bike is nicely set-up: good saddle, good position,
and so forth.

For what it's worth, I ride an upright touring bike with drop bars; my
hands are mostly just behind the brake hoods.

> -hand pressure is much lower,
> -neck strain is much lower.
>
> Comfort? Yea, we've heard of it.....
> ~

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Date: 08 Jul 2007 16:40:10
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

Luigi de Guzman wrote:
> I don't wear padded shorts on my bike; I took it out for a fifty-odd mile
> jaunt a bit ago and my lungs and legs hurt more than my perineum.
>
There's always people that say this....

> The main benefit of cycling shorts, I find, is the decreased chafing (from
> repeated pedal strokes). The padding is an added bonus, but not strictly
> *necessary* if your bike is nicely set-up: good saddle, good position,
> and so forth.

...in spite of the fact that most "cycling specific" shorts have the
padding. ....And most well-stocked bike shops (in the US anyway) will
sell them (as well as 20 or 30 different saddles).

-------

Saddle comfort is a major issue that a lot of riders have, and most bike
shops can't seem to solve it. If they could they'd only need to sell ONE
saddle, and they wouldn't bother sticking any padded shorts, because
nobody would ever want to buy them.

(synthetic shorts are still a good idea for the moisture-wicking benefit)
~

Date: 08 Jul 2007 16:05:12
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:13:42 -0700, joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Tires will make a bigger difference than any frame.

The frame will also determine the tires. Very narrow-clearance frames
will not permit tires wider than 25 or even 23 mm. 700C x 28mm tires are
nice if you have a frame that will fit 'em.

-Luigi

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Date: 08 Jul 2007 06:42:18
From: bernmart
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

> Tires will make a bigger difference than any frame.
>
> Joseph

Perhaps true, but frame geometry and design do matter. I test-rode
the Synapse and the Roubaix, and they both felt great compared to more
race-oriented bikes with similar tires. Bought the Roubaix, and my 68-
yr old bones have been happy ever since.

Date: 08 Jul 2007 04:38:27
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

Date: 08 Jul 2007 04:33:22
From: Grand Poobah
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

"Zen Cohen" <aturny@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:469042af$0$3189$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>I like to ride fast but now that I'm in my 40's my body doesn't withstand
>the road shocks as well. Are bikes like Specialized Roubaix, Trek Pilot and
>Cannondale Synapse really that more comfortable than road bikes with racing
>configs? I rode a Roubaix around the LBS parking lot and it felt pretty
>good but the only way to really know is on a longer road ride.
>
> Comments appreciated.
As Joseph has korrectly opined...think tires, not frame. I B 53 years since
birth, an' I B ridin' ~ 20 miles daily in nise weather. Ich weiss nicht,
what a ride around D LBS parking lot will tell U a/b comfort. I guess U
would want 2 run lower tire pressure, N also think saddle. Ich denke, D mos'
comfortable saddle B Brooks, but sUm riders kan't get used 2 a premium
leather saddle.

I'll keep thinkin' bekaus dat B watt I like 2 du!

...oder auf Deutsch:

Ich werde behalten, daran zu denken. Weil das ist, was ich machen mag!

Jay D Kraut (Bike Friday serious Bike Commuter in da beg citi witch B
Chicago, TRU!)

http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/brooks.jpg

http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/bike1.jpg

Date: 08 Jul 2007 01:13:42
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Comfy performance bikes

On Jul 8, 3:48 am, "Zen Cohen" <atu...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I like to ride fast but now that I'm in my 40's my body doesn't withstand
> the road shocks as well. Are bikes like Specialized Roubaix, Trek Pilot and
> Cannondale Synapse really that more comfortable than road bikes with racing
> configs? I rode a Roubaix around the LBS parking lot and it felt pretty good
> but the only way to really know is on a longer road ride.
>
> Comments appreciated.

Tires will make a bigger difference than any frame.

Joseph