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Main
Date: 11 Feb 2007 02:54:25
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Customer had a problem with our service
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Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for a flat
tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling her he's had
some problems with our shop, specifically that we had previously recommended
his chain be replaced because it was worn. She explained to him that we
recommend replacing chains when worn because if you let them go on too long,
they wear out your cassette.
He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes anymore,
just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he planned to ride the
same chain until it broke.
(This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so we try
to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up in this case)
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
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Date: 12 Mar 2007 08:07:56
From: Johan Bornman
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
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On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> >> Just as someone in a newsgroup might feel when an experienced old hand
> >> comes down on them with sarcastic reks that could have been couched
> >> more politely. One wonders if the desire of the experienced old hand is
> >> not to help the person understand the err of his or her ways, but rather
> >> to rid them from the newsgroup through such embarrassment. For good or
> >> bad, it seems to be a tactic that rarely works in a newsgroup.
Mike, the world has gone so PC that there's no-one to laugh at
anymore. Recently I told someone how stupid I was for doing XYZ and
she halted me, reminded me that I'm not really stupid and I shouldn't
have such a low self esteem. That was the last straw. I'm now cathing
up and wildly inventing jokes about morons, Irishmen, Jews, village
idiots, fat rich bastards, bimbos, George Bush, Sadam Hussein,
religios fanatics (various faiths...see, there it goes again), women,
bushmen, hobos, butchers, candlestick makers, cyclists, motorists,
swimmers, chiropodist and dogs. I hope I didn't leave anyone out. Oh
yes, priests, nuns and Satan.
Don't apologise for your story. It is funny. Period.
Johan Bornman
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Date: 16 Feb 2007 11:12:52
From:
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
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On Feb 16, 12:47 pm, Doc O'Leary <droleary.use...@1q2007.subsume.com >
wrote:
>
> Yes, asking for civil behavior by a business owner and members of this
> newsgroup makes me a terrible trolls. How ever shall I sleep at night?
You could curl up with a good dictionary and begin researching the
meaning of "civil behavior." Also look up "sense of humor."
After a few hours of study, you may still not get it, but you'll
probably drift off to sleep.
HTH!
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 16 Feb 2007 14:30:05
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
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> You could curl up with a good dictionary and begin researching the
> meaning of "civil behavior." Also look up "sense of humor."
>
> After a few hours of study, you may still not get it, but you'll
> probably drift off to sleep.
>
> HTH!
>
> - Frank Krygowski
Well, anything to get him off of the computer with his self-righteous
attitude!
>
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Date: 15 Feb 2007 07:59:08
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
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On Feb 15, 9:28 am, Doc O'Leary <droleary.use...@1q2007.subsume.com >
wrote:
> In article <DVKAh.191792$qy.156...@newsfe16.lga>, "di" <di9...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between a bicycle
> > drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be laughed at. They are
> > a joke to begin with, that's one of the problems with today's society, we're
> > raising a bunch of idiots, and then defending their right to be an idiot.
>
> Nice attitude. You should open a bike shop.
>
Or work in any "Customer Service" position...... :-o
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Date: 14 Feb 2007 19:02:14
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
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In article <YyNAh.14811$O02.1442@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net >,
"Cathy Kearns" <cathy_kearns@yahoo.com > writes:
> Ah, if only the world worked that way. You see, most people who know that a
> bike has a cassette also already own a bike.
The customer in this instance already owns a bike,
and apparently has done for quite some time.
Long enough to wear the hell out of his chain, anyways.
> I'm not that familiar with
> bike shop economics, but I'm betting they make lots of money off of selling
> bikes to people that don't already have a bike.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if most bike shops' profits
come from after-sales transactions.
> I suspect if they limited
> their customers to those that could pass a "name that part" test first they
> would all go bankrupt.
A Service Provider has certain duties. But so does
a customer. Customers should feel free to ask questions
about the service she or he is requesting. And the Service
Provider should answer those questions, sometimes even before
they're asked. This particular customer pre-empted and
dismissed such communication.
Maybe in the 24th Century, customers will be able to enter
a shop on a conveyor belt, and get exactly what they
want without having to utter a word or lift a finger.
Anyways, in this case the customer got what he wanted --
he got his flat fixed, and as far as we know, walked out
satisfied with the service he got.
> I don't think Mike meant to make his shop sound like
> it was only open to the bicycle elite that know some bikes have parts called
> cassettes. That's why I was surprised it was written that way.
I guess when talking about the public to the public,
it's gonna rub some of the public the wrong way.
If, further on down the road, this customer wipes out
because his chain busted, I guess Mike will be taken
to task for that, too. Ya can't win. Certain customers
make sure of that, for some obscure (to me) reason.
I guess some folks just have to make everything a contest.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 14 Feb 2007 14:02:46
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
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In article <53heleF1sjlhoU1@mid.individual.net >,
"Pat" <Pat@faraway.com > writes:
> The wife of the
>> owner responds by dazzling the guy with techno jargon, and for those not
>> thinking cassette was techno jargon, look up cassette in your dictionary.
>
>
> "She explained to him that we recommend replacing chains when worn because
> if you let them go on too long,
> they wear out your cassette."
>
> This is not "dazzling with techno jargon."
I have to agree. "Cassette" is plain English, and it
is the appropriate name of a certain bicycle component.
"Corncob" is jargon.
> Would you have had her say, "If
> you ride with a badly worn chain it will wear our your "whatchamacallit"?
> Do you prefer your doctor to say, "You have a problem with your hoohah---so
> that he won't use "technical jargon" on you?
I wish I had money coming out the wazoo. If that happened,
I don't think I'd seek medical help immediately.
Maybe it's a wazoo-al retentive thing.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 12:06:44
From: AustinMN
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
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On Feb 13, 9:37 am, Doc O'Leary <droleary.use...@1q2007.subsume.com >
wrote:
> In article <2o8Ah.63760$Oa.56340@edtnps82>, me <m...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > Like the OP tried to
> > make plain, some people JUST DON"T GET IT. They are incapable of applying
> > logic to their everyday life.
>
> What was shown was not a lack of logic, but a misunderstanding of
> terminology. Given the circumstances, there is nothing particularly
> funny about it, and there is no good reason to belittle a customer on a
> global forum.
Not knowing that "cassette" refers to a collection of gears is a
misunderstanding of terminology. Thinking that "chain wear leads to
cassette wear" is irrelevant if you listen to CD's is a lack of logic,
regardless of whether you understand the bicycle term. Why? To come
to that conclusion, one has to assume the tech was trying to say that
a worn out chain will wear out my music tapes. That is a lack of
logic, regardless of the terminology issue.
> > If I didn't know what a "cassette" was, and someone said that to me in
> > that case, my response would be "what?" or maybe look puzzled, which would
> > I am sure, have resulted in the explanation required. I would NOT have
> > jumped from the subject of bicycles to music storage formats because of
> > the similarity of terminology.
> Well bully for your thought process, but the first thing you should have
> learned when dealing with customers is that neither of you are mind
> readers.
He proves that it';s a lack of logic, and you change the subject.
> As I have already posted, the basic misunderstanding makes it
> just as easy for the *customer* to think that it is the employee who is
> changing the subject. A polite correction goes a lot farther than a
> stifled laugh followed by a post to Usenet saying the customer wasn't
> sane.
How in hell do you know there was no polite correction? You are so
full of it I can hardly believe it. If only you could see how foolish
you look.
Austin (yep, that *was* belittling)
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 11:57:04
From: AustinMN
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
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Doc O'Leary wrote:
> In article <it1Ah.2834$ov2.582@trndny06>,
> Stephen Harding <smhardin...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> I'm all for a funny story of a bad customer getting what they deserve,
> but this wasn't one.
Then there is no such thing as a funny story about a customer.
> Someone misunderstood an obscure bit of mechanical
> terminology, and for that they are called insane world wide?
You are the only one using the *insane* term, meaning in _your_ mind
he has been interpreted as insane.
> > He didn't laugh at them! It was a humorous story that brought
> > about laugher (if that) after the customer was gone. The
> > customer apparently never knew he made such a gaff.
>
> I'm just stunned that so many of you think that is a good thing! As I
> have already said, the customer should have been corrected on the spot
> and a laugh (if that) *shared*. What happened here, and your defense of
> Mike, is just perpetual cruelty.
Perpetual cruelty? Do you even listen to yourself? Cruel to whom?
You have a real problem.
> > >>There's a lesson for many of us there. Don't assume that someone else's
> > >>world works quite the same as your own.
>
> > > Seems mostly to be a lesson for you. Seems like you haven't learned it.
>
> > Seems you need to re-read the post.
>
> I have. Perhaps it is you who needs to go back and see things from the
> customer's perspective.
You know, I have been in the customer's perspective. And you know
what? I was an *idiot*. I doubt any of us have never been an idiot.
I can laugh about it. And I have no doubt I have said and/or done
things that made people, aftewr I walked away, say "Do you believe
that?" I've even told other people about my gaffe, and shared the
laugh.
I have hinted at something here, but now I feel I have to come out and
say it. You need to get an enema, because you are really, really full
of shit.
Austin
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 20:02:13
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
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>> I have. Perhaps it is you who needs to go back and see things from the
>> customer's perspective.
>
> You know, I have been in the customer's perspective. And you know
> what? I was an *idiot*. I doubt any of us have never been an idiot.
> I can laugh about it. And I have no doubt I have said and/or done
> things that made people, aftewr I walked away, say "Do you believe
> that?" I've even told other people about my gaffe, and shared the
> laugh.
There are far worse things you can do than share a laugh with someone at
your own "expense." I learned a very long time ago that eating a healthy
dose of crow now & then is an essential part of a well-balanced personality.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 11:44:38
From: AustinMN
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
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Doc O'Leary spilled out in misguided self-defense:
> In article <53bmtdF1rme2...@mid.individual.net>,
>
> "Pat" <P...@faraway.com> wrote:
> > > Your mistake is to empathize with Mike because he's posting here. If
> > > you look at it from the customer's perspective, why does this moron bike
> > > mechanic think a chain has anything to do with a music player? Is is
> > > clear *now* how being an elitist prick creates an opportunity for both
> > > sides to look foolish?
>
> > You are reading something into the original post that wasn't there! Mike
> > isn't an "elitist prick"!
>
> Yes, he clearly is. Stop defending him because he is here to defend
> himself. The person that needs to be represented here is the customer.
You are *still* reading something into Mike's post that is not there.
There is absolutely no evidence that he treated this customer with
anything but respect. Get used to it.
> > The customer didn't have an inkling that the bike
> > mechanic thought anything was out of the ordinary...he wasn't affected at
> > all! He left the shop happy.
>
> Now who is reading stuff into posts? Nothing was mentioned about how
> the incident ended, and fixing the flat was completely unrelated to
> Mike's intent to belittle the customer on Usenet.
You must use a very different definition of "belittle" than I do.
> > It seems to me that some people are reading
> > into that simple post some hurtful experience from their past. Are you
> > being honest with yourself, here? Did somebody who you call "elitist" make
> > you feel small or foolish?
>
> If so, it would mean my empathy is at least well placed. What would
> embarrass me would be to take Mike's side because I instead had some
> deep-seated desire to get revenge on a world that has treated me so
> badly . . . by being an elitist prick to a random person who wants to
> give me money.
Where in any post is ther *anything* to suggest he's elietist? Seems
to me the only elietist here is the guy who's trying to defend someone
who has not - to the best of our knowledge - been upset, offended, or
injured in any way by anyone.
> If you *really* think a cycle of abuse is the answer,
> you need to read those psychology books over again before you attempt to
> analyze someone else.
ABUSE? You know, your post appears to be in English, but if you can
find abuse in anythign he posted, then you are not using the same
English language that I am. This statement is just beyond belief.
> > > No, I am bending over backwards because the customer is not here to
> > > defend themselves and because Mike is contributing to an unfriendly
> > > biking atmosphere, as are you.
>
> > That would only be true if the customer was made to feel uncomfortable. He
> > wasn't!
>
> Yes, because it is *so* much better to talk about them behind their back
> on a global forum!
Who was the customer? What was his name? Since identity is, in the
English I know, *required* to commit the sin you accuse of, let's have
it. Quote the post that identifies this customer.
> What's next, posting security videos on YouTube
> under the title "Look What Kind of Jerkwads We Get In Our Shop". I am
> simply amazed that you, and others, are so eager to see customers
> treated poorly, as though you are never a customer yourself.
The problem is, there is *no* evidence that *anybody* was treated
poorly.
You are full of something, and it isn't love.
Austin
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 09:33:47
From:
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Feb 13, 10:49 am, Doc O'Leary <droleary.use...@1q2007.subsume.com >
wrote:
> And, again, please
> explain to me how it is better to laugh at them behind their back on a
> global forum?
The customer is not hurt in any way by this discussion. He doesn't
know about it. His name was never mentioned. In fact, the city he
lives in was never mentioned. He's completely anonymous, so he's
unharmed in any way.
The phrase "No harm, no foul" comes to mind. It's silly to get in a
huff about a supposed unkind act toward a person who can never be
harmed by that act, is unaware it ever occurred, and might not mind
even if he knew.
If Doc himself were the person in question, and discovered the tale of
his gaffe here on this newsgroup, his outrage would make some sense.
But I doubt that's the case.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 14 Feb 2007 16:15:16
From: Cathy Kearns
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
<frkrygow@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171388027.481426.20740@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 13, 10:49 am, Doc O'Leary <droleary.use...@1q2007.subsume.com>
> wrote:
>> And, again, please
>> explain to me how it is better to laugh at them behind their back on a
>> global forum?
>
> The customer is not hurt in any way by this discussion. He doesn't
> know about it. His name was never mentioned. In fact, the city he
> lives in was never mentioned. He's completely anonymous, so he's
> unharmed in any way.
I think if anyone was harmed in this story it would be Chain Reaction.
There are folks on this forum, myself included, that know where the Chain
Reaction stores are, and have even been customers. (My husband bought his
carbon fiber road bike there, and many, many accessories.) However, it's an
area with many a local bike shop for competition. I don't know of any other
ones that post customer stories on this newsgroup.
Let's look how this story came off to me. A guy comes into the shop to have
his flat tire fixed. I'd make an assumption that this customer isn't likely
to know a ton about bikes, as fixing tires isn't that hard. He mentions to
the shop owner's wife that he feels the service people are trying to take
advantage of his naivety by pushing for unneeded parts. The wife of the
owner responds by dazzling the guy with techno jargon, and for those not
thinking cassette was techno jargon, look up cassette in your dictionary.
See bike parts mentioned in there anywhere? Now in my mind, it doesn't
really matter what the customer said after that, that's just clueless
customer service. What really doesn't help is the shop owner thinks it's a
cute story because "this particular customer is playing with less than a
full deck, so we try to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from
cracking up in this case."
So you would think Mike would share this chuckle with biking buddies, other
employees, maybe even bicycle enthusiast customers who he knows well enough
to see it his way. But no, he puts it out there on a global news group to
ensure a wide swath of potential customers would see it.
Mike might be a nice guy, but when it comes to public relations, I'm not
sure he's playing with a full deck.
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Date: 14 Feb 2007 15:52:32
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
>
> Let's look how this story came off to me. A guy comes into the shop to
> have his flat tire fixed. I'd make an assumption that this customer isn't
> likely to know a ton about bikes, as fixing tires isn't that hard. He
> mentions to the shop owner's wife that he feels the service people are
> trying to take advantage of his naivety by pushing for unneeded parts.
Wrong!
"He was then telling her he's had some problems with our shop, specifically
that we had previously recommended his chain be replaced because it was
worn. "
What on earth is there in this sentence that tells you he thought they were
taking advantage of his naivety by pushing for unneeded parts? She only told
him his chain was worn. This is NOT "unneeded parts." It is one part--a
chain.
The wife of the
> owner responds by dazzling the guy with techno jargon, and for those not
> thinking cassette was techno jargon, look up cassette in your dictionary.
"She explained to him that we recommend replacing chains when worn because
if you let them go on too long,
they wear out your cassette."
This is not "dazzling with techno jargon." Would you have had her say, "If
you ride with a badly worn chain it will wear our your "whatchamacallit"?
Do you prefer your doctor to say, "You have a problem with your hoohah---so
that he won't use "technical jargon" on you?
> See bike parts mentioned in there anywhere?
Yes! She was explaining to him what a worn chain (bicycle part!) would do to
another bicycle part. She wasn't talking about avocados.
>
> So you would think Mike would share this chuckle with biking buddies,
> other employees, maybe even bicycle enthusiast customers who he knows well
> enough to see it his way. But no, he puts it out there on a global news
> group to ensure a wide swath of potential customers would see it.
It's a funny, harmless story. You need to get a sense of humor. He didn't
put down the guy's name, his city, his description---the guy is anonymous.
How on earth is the customer going to be affected?
> Mike might be a nice guy, but when it comes to public relations, I'm not
> sure he's playing with a full deck.
I KNOW you're not playing with a full deck. Your deck has a chip on its
shoulder.
Pat in TX
>
>
>
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Date: 14 Feb 2007 22:08:30
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
>> Mike might be a nice guy, but when it comes to public relations, I'm not
>> sure he's playing with a full deck.
>
> I KNOW you're not playing with a full deck. Your deck has a chip on its
> shoulder.
That is not true; Cathy is simply reading things from a different
perspective. It simply illustrates how normal, different people can view
something entirely... differently. Life would be pretty boring otherwise.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
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| | | | | |
Date: 15 Feb 2007 18:53:00
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
>> I KNOW you're not playing with a full deck. Your deck has a chip on its
>> shoulder.
Pat in TX
> That is not true; Cathy is simply reading things from a different
> perspective. It simply illustrates how normal, different people can view
> something entirely... differently. Life would be pretty boring otherwise.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
Oh yeah? Then why did she take the trouble to identify your store when in
the OP, you gave the customer anonymity? She went out of her way to do that
when it wasn't necessary or warranted.
Pat in TX
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| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Feb 2007 20:23:29
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
>>> I KNOW you're not playing with a full deck. Your deck has a chip on its
>>> shoulder.
> Pat in TX
>
>> That is not true; Cathy is simply reading things from a different
>> perspective. It simply illustrates how normal, different people can view
>> something entirely... differently. Life would be pretty boring otherwise.
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>
>
> Oh yeah? Then why did she take the trouble to identify your store when in
> the OP, you gave the customer anonymity? She went out of her way to do
> that when it wasn't necessary or warranted.
>
> Pat in TX
I don't think she's on a mission to trash us, or at least identifying our
store isn't an indication of such, since I list our store name and web
address in all my posts.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
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| | | |
Date: 14 Feb 2007 15:11:00
From: di
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"Cathy Kearns" <cathy_kearns@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:oAGAh.44640$Gr2.4582@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
>
> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1171388027.481426.20740@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 13, 10:49 am, Doc O'Leary <droleary.use...@1q2007.subsume.com>
>> wrote:
>>> And, again, please
>>> explain to me how it is better to laugh at them behind their back on a
>>> global forum?
>>
>> The customer is not hurt in any way by this discussion. He doesn't
>> know about it. His name was never mentioned. In fact, the city he
>> lives in was never mentioned. He's completely anonymous, so he's
>> unharmed in any way.
>
> I think if anyone was harmed in this story it would be Chain Reaction.
> There are folks on this forum, myself included, that know where the Chain
> Reaction stores are, and have even been customers. (My husband bought his
> carbon fiber road bike there, and many, many accessories.) However, it's
> an area with many a local bike shop for competition. I don't know of any
> other ones that post customer stories on this newsgroup.
>
> Let's look how this story came off to me. A guy comes into the shop to
> have his flat tire fixed. I'd make an assumption that this customer isn't
> likely to know a ton about bikes, as fixing tires isn't that hard. He
> mentions to the shop owner's wife that he feels the service people are
> trying to take advantage of his naivety by pushing for unneeded parts.
> The wife of the owner responds by dazzling the guy with techno jargon, and
> for those not thinking cassette was techno jargon, look up cassette in
> your dictionary. See bike parts mentioned in there anywhere? Now in my
> mind, it doesn't really matter what the customer said after that, that's
> just clueless customer service. What really doesn't help is the shop
> owner thinks it's a cute story because "this particular customer is
> playing with less than a full deck, so we try to be nice, but it was very
> difficult to keep from cracking up in this case."
>
> So you would think Mike would share this chuckle with biking buddies,
> other employees, maybe even bicycle enthusiast customers who he knows well
> enough to see it his way. But no, he puts it out there on a global news
> group to ensure a wide swath of potential customers would see it.
>
> Mike might be a nice guy, but when it comes to public relations, I'm not
> sure he's playing with a full deck.
>
Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between a bicycle
drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be laughed at. They are
a joke to begin with, that's one of the problems with today's society, we're
raising a bunch of idiots, and then defending their right to be an idiot.
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Feb 2007 09:28:46
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
In article <DVKAh.191792$qy.156037@newsfe16.lga >, "di" <di9999@cox.net>
wrote:
> Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between a bicycle
> drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be laughed at. They are
> a joke to begin with, that's one of the problems with today's society, we're
> raising a bunch of idiots, and then defending their right to be an idiot.
Nice attitude. You should open a bike shop.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Feb 2007 08:40:36
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Doc O'Leary wrote:
> In article <DVKAh.191792$qy.156037@newsfe16.lga>, "di"
> <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between a
>> bicycle drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be laughed
>> at. They are a joke to begin with, that's one of the problems with
>> today's society, we're raising a bunch of idiots, and then defending
>> their right to be an idiot.
>
> Nice attitude. You should open a bike shop.
Troll.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Feb 2007 11:47:30
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
In article <45d48d04$0$27043$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,
"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me > wrote:
> Doc O'Leary wrote:
> > In article <DVKAh.191792$qy.156037@newsfe16.lga>, "di"
> > <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between a
> >> bicycle drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be laughed
> >> at. They are a joke to begin with, that's one of the problems with
> >> today's society, we're raising a bunch of idiots, and then defending
> >> their right to be an idiot.
> >
> > Nice attitude. You should open a bike shop.
>
> Troll.
Yes, asking for civil behavior by a business owner and members of this
newsgroup makes me a terrible trolls. How ever shall I sleep at night?
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Feb 2007 12:29:19
From: di
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"Doc O'Leary" <droleary.usenet@1q2007.subsume.com > wrote in message
news:droleary.usenet-31490D.11473016022007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> In article <45d48d04$0$27043$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote:
>
>> Doc O'Leary wrote:
>> > In article <DVKAh.191792$qy.156037@newsfe16.lga>, "di"
>> > <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between a
>> >> bicycle drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be laughed
>> >> at. They are a joke to begin with, that's one of the problems with
>> >> today's society, we're raising a bunch of idiots, and then defending
>> >> their right to be an idiot.
>> >
>> > Nice attitude. You should open a bike shop.
>>
>> Troll.
>
> Yes, asking for civil behavior by a business owner and members of this
> newsgroup makes me a terrible trolls. How ever shall I sleep at night?
>
I would have trouble sleeping if I was so hung up on something as trivial as
this, Political Correctness running amuck!
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Feb 2007 13:39:27
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"di" <di9999@cox.net > wrote in message
news:2KmBh.83585$IL1.824@newsfe13.lga...
>
> "Doc O'Leary" <droleary.usenet@1q2007.subsume.com> wrote in message
> news:droleary.usenet-31490D.11473016022007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
>> In article <45d48d04$0$27043$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote:
>>
>>> Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>> > In article <DVKAh.191792$qy.156037@newsfe16.lga>, "di"
>>> > <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between a
>>> >> bicycle drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be laughed
>>> >> at. They are a joke to begin with, that's one of the problems with
>>> >> today's society, we're raising a bunch of idiots, and then defending
>>> >> their right to be an idiot.
>>> >
>>> > Nice attitude. You should open a bike shop.
>>>
>>> Troll.
>>
>> Yes, asking for civil behavior by a business owner and members of this
>> newsgroup makes me a terrible trolls. How ever shall I sleep at night?
>>
> I would have trouble sleeping if I was so hung up on something as trivial
> as this, Political Correctness running amuck!
>
More like self-righteousness, but point well taken.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Feb 2007 09:58:53
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Doc O'Leary wrote:
> In article <45d48d04$0$27043$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote:
>
>> Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>> In article <DVKAh.191792$qy.156037@newsfe16.lga>, "di"
>>> <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between
>>>> a bicycle drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be
>>>> laughed at. They are a joke to begin with, that's one of the
>>>> problems with today's society, we're raising a bunch of idiots,
>>>> and then defending their right to be an idiot.
>>>
>>> Nice attitude. You should open a bike shop.
>>
>> Troll.
>
> Yes, asking for civil behavior by a business owner and members of this
> newsgroup makes me a terrible trolls. How ever shall I sleep at
> night?
Yes, Mike Jacoubowsky is terribly uncivil. How ever does HE sleep at night!
Throughout this thread, you sir (oh, sorry, DOC), have been a troll.
Good night now. BS (really)
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Feb 2007 10:36:23
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:28:46 -0600, Doc O'Leary
<droleary.usenet@1q2007.subsume.com > wrote:
>Nice attitude. You should open a bike shop.
You can be their first customer.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Feb 2007 00:11:36
From: Cathy Kearns
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"di" <di9999@cox.net > wrote in message
news:DVKAh.191792$qy.156037@newsfe16.lga...
>
> Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between a
> bicycle drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be laughed at.
> They are a joke to begin with, that's one of the problems with today's
> society, we're raising a bunch of idiots, and then defending their right
> to be an idiot.
Ah, if only the world worked that way. You see, most people who know that a
bike has a cassette also already own a bike. I'm not that familiar with
bike shop economics, but I'm betting they make lots of money off of selling
bikes to people that don't already have a bike. I suspect if they limited
their customers to those that could pass a "name that part" test first they
would all go bankrupt. I don't think Mike meant to make his shop sound like
it was only open to the bicycle elite that know some bikes have parts called
cassettes. That's why I was surprised it was written that way.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Feb 2007 09:26:36
From: Pat Lamb
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Cathy Kearns wrote:
> "di" <di9999@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:DVKAh.191792$qy.156037@newsfe16.lga...
>> Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between a
>> bicycle drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be laughed at.
>> They are a joke to begin with, that's one of the problems with today's
>> society, we're raising a bunch of idiots, and then defending their right
>> to be an idiot.
>
> Ah, if only the world worked that way. You see, most people who know that a
> bike has a cassette also already own a bike. I'm not that familiar with
> bike shop economics, but I'm betting they make lots of money off of selling
> bikes to people that don't already have a bike. I suspect if they limited
> their customers to those that could pass a "name that part" test first they
> would all go bankrupt. I don't think Mike meant to make his shop sound like
> it was only open to the bicycle elite that know some bikes have parts called
> cassettes. That's why I was surprised it was written that way.
Cathy, I'm glad you learned a new term this week (cassette), but I think
even you would do a double-take if somebody behind the counter of a bike
shop tried to link replacing a chain to your need to replace your stereo
equipment. Wouldn't it be obvious that there was a disconnect in your
conversation?
Pat
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Feb 2007 18:29:19
From: di
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"Cathy Kearns" <cathy_kearns@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:YyNAh.14811$O02.1442@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "di" <di9999@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:DVKAh.191792$qy.156037@newsfe16.lga...
>>
>> Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between a
>> bicycle drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be laughed at.
>> They are a joke to begin with, that's one of the problems with today's
>> society, we're raising a bunch of idiots, and then defending their right
>> to be an idiot.
>
> Ah, if only the world worked that way. You see, most people who know that
> a bike has a cassette also already own a bike. I'm not that familiar with
> bike shop economics, but I'm betting they make lots of money off of
> selling bikes to people that don't already have a bike. I suspect if they
> limited their customers to those that could pass a "name that part" test
> first they would all go bankrupt. I don't think Mike meant to make his
> shop sound like it was only open to the bicycle elite that know some bikes
> have parts called cassettes. That's why I was surprised it was written
> that way.
>
The way I read the post was this guy had a bike, he was getting it repaired.
I thought it was a very funny story, and didn't feel any sorrow for the
idiot who was being laughed at.
|
| | | | |
Date: 14 Feb 2007 16:02:44
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
> Any bike rider who is so stupid to not know the difference between a
> bicycle
> drive train cassette and a musical media needs to be laughed at. They
> are a joke to begin with, that's one of the problems with today's society,
> we're raising a bunch of idiots, and then defending their right to be an
> idiot.
Even more, she is blaming Mike for even mentioning it in a strictly
anonymous way. He was bending over backward not to identify the customer and
yet she insinuates it's all Mike's fault. I don't even know Mike, but I
thought it was funny, too.
Do you ever watch Carlos Mencia? He has this saying, "Deet da dee!" when
someone does something really dumb. Jeff Foxworthy has a saying, too. His
is "Here's your sign!"
Here's an example: I am getting bothered by phone calls from a doctor's
office telling me "Joshua" is due for an appointment. I keep getting these
messages on my answering machine. Finally, one day I happened to get a
message that said that she was calling from Dr. ....'s office about Joshua's
appointment. I got out the phone book and found the number and called her
right back. I said, "I want you to stop calling my house about Joshua having
an appointment on February 2. Joshua does not live here and I am tired of
getting these calls." She said, "I'll look into it, but you'll have to tell
me Joshua's last name first." Deet Da Dee!
>
>
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Feb 2007 10:18:27
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Cathy Kearns wrote:
> I think if anyone was harmed in this story it would be Chain Reaction.
> There are folks on this forum, myself included, that know where the
> Chain Reaction stores are, and have even been customers. (My husband
> bought his carbon fiber road bike there, and many, many accessories.)
> However, it's an area with many a local bike shop for competition. I
> don't know of any other ones that post customer stories on this
> newsgroup.
> Let's look how this story came off to me. A guy comes into the shop
> to have his flat tire fixed. I'd make an assumption that this
> customer isn't likely to know a ton about bikes, as fixing tires
> isn't that hard. He mentions to the shop owner's wife that he feels
> the service people are trying to take advantage of his naivety by
> pushing for unneeded parts. The wife of the owner responds by
> dazzling the guy with techno jargon, and for those not thinking
> cassette was techno jargon, look up cassette in your dictionary. See
> bike parts mentioned in there anywhere? Now in my mind, it doesn't
> really matter what the customer said after that, that's just clueless
> customer service. What really doesn't help is the shop owner thinks
> it's a cute story because "this particular customer is playing with
> less than a full deck, so we try to be nice, but it was very
> difficult to keep from cracking up in this case."
> So you would think Mike would share this chuckle with biking buddies,
> other employees, maybe even bicycle enthusiast customers who he knows
> well enough to see it his way. But no, he puts it out there on a
> global news group to ensure a wide swath of potential customers would
> see it.
> Mike might be a nice guy, but when it comes to public relations, I'm
> not sure he's playing with a full deck.
Oh good grief. Yeah, when someone accuses a shop of fraudulent hard-sell
techniques because he doesn't understand that a chain can wear out, the
employee(s) should just shut up and not bother explaining things (or even
TRYING to).
It was a funny little story about someone not knowing what a bike cassette
was -- just like those computer tech service stories about people using
their CD trays as coffee cup holders or looking for their Any Key.
People REALLY need to lighten up.
Bill "the hell you say!" S.
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Feb 2007 08:11:52
From: Aeek
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:18:27 -0800, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me >
wrote:
>It was a funny little story about someone not knowing what a bike cassette
>was -- just like those computer tech service stories about people using
>their CD trays as coffee cup holders or looking for their Any Key.
going OT: I see the "Any Key" as different. There was only ONE key
that would work on our mainframe terminals, the ENTER key, as it sent
the previous characters to mainframe. The message was inappropriate
for our terminals. Any colour provided its black.
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Feb 2007 10:02:16
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
> So you would think Mike would share this chuckle with biking buddies,
> other employees, maybe even bicycle enthusiast customers who he knows well
> enough to see it his way. But no, he puts it out there on a global news
> group to ensure a wide swath of potential customers would see it.
>
> Mike might be a nice guy, but when it comes to public relations, I'm not
> sure he's playing with a full deck.
The problem is that I know a lot more about the situation than I felt
comfortable putting into the initial piece, and wasn't considering that my
editing was going to play the way it did. The person in question is one who
isn't even allowed in any other shop in the area; he's been literally thrown
out because he's beyond difficult to deal with. But because he gets around
on a bike, we do what we can for him. If someone actually uses a bike for
commuting, that person fits into a different category in terms of how
quickly we'll get something done (what we'll put aside to get him or her
back on the road) and our tolerance for rudeness etc.
But I really didn't want it to become a discussion of people with, sorry,
but there's not a better way to say it, less than a full deck, coming into a
bike shop. We are beyond tolerant of such people; that's the way I was
brought up. Yet I still thought it was an interesting story that this person
thought we were a terrible bike shop because we told him his bike needed
work (his chain is so stretched that yes, it actually *will* break soon, and
he could get seriously hurt) and that he believes it doesn't, that we're out
to get his money. That provided, TO ME, the background to carry the story a
bit further, in a way that shows he's not quite all there.
Will I share such a story again? Probably. I'm about as transparent as they
come, for good and bad. If what I wear on my sleeve is offensive to some,
I'd rather they know that out front than have me dance around a life of
trying to be 100% politically correct and more concerned with how I appear
than who I am. A strategy that's worked pretty well for the past 27 years.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Cathy Kearns" <cathy_kearns@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:oAGAh.44640$Gr2.4582@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
>
> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1171388027.481426.20740@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 13, 10:49 am, Doc O'Leary <droleary.use...@1q2007.subsume.com>
>> wrote:
>>> And, again, please
>>> explain to me how it is better to laugh at them behind their back on a
>>> global forum?
>>
>> The customer is not hurt in any way by this discussion. He doesn't
>> know about it. His name was never mentioned. In fact, the city he
>> lives in was never mentioned. He's completely anonymous, so he's
>> unharmed in any way.
>
> I think if anyone was harmed in this story it would be Chain Reaction.
> There are folks on this forum, myself included, that know where the Chain
> Reaction stores are, and have even been customers. (My husband bought his
> carbon fiber road bike there, and many, many accessories.) However, it's
> an area with many a local bike shop for competition. I don't know of any
> other ones that post customer stories on this newsgroup.
>
> Let's look how this story came off to me. A guy comes into the shop to
> have his flat tire fixed. I'd make an assumption that this customer isn't
> likely to know a ton about bikes, as fixing tires isn't that hard. He
> mentions to the shop owner's wife that he feels the service people are
> trying to take advantage of his naivety by pushing for unneeded parts.
> The wife of the owner responds by dazzling the guy with techno jargon, and
> for those not thinking cassette was techno jargon, look up cassette in
> your dictionary. See bike parts mentioned in there anywhere? Now in my
> mind, it doesn't really matter what the customer said after that, that's
> just clueless customer service. What really doesn't help is the shop
> owner thinks it's a cute story because "this particular customer is
> playing with less than a full deck, so we try to be nice, but it was very
> difficult to keep from cracking up in this case."
>
> So you would think Mike would share this chuckle with biking buddies,
> other employees, maybe even bicycle enthusiast customers who he knows well
> enough to see it his way. But no, he puts it out there on a global news
> group to ensure a wide swath of potential customers would see it.
>
> Mike might be a nice guy, but when it comes to public relations, I'm not
> sure he's playing with a full deck.
>
>
>
|
| | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 21:04:46
From: Patrick Lamb
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On 13 Feb 2007 09:33:47 -0800, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>On Feb 13, 10:49 am, Doc O'Leary <droleary.use...@1q2007.subsume.com>
>wrote:
>> And, again, please
>> explain to me how it is better to laugh at them behind their back on a
>> global forum?
>
>
>If Doc himself were the person in question, and discovered the tale of
>his gaffe here on this newsgroup, his outrage would make some sense.
>But I doubt that's the case.
You know, if Doc _were_ the customer in question, this whole blow-up
would start making sense. Not that I'd expect him to admit it, or for
that matter, I'd expect Mike J. to be far too much the gentleman to
expose him. Ya think?
Pat
Email address works as is.
|
| |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 01:21:02
From: me
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 07:21:30 -0600, Doc O'Leary wrote:
> In article <0fJzh.43289$Gr2.12132@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> Uh... I see. So if you go to have your car repaired, and they tell you that
>> your antenna needs replacement, you would assume they're talking about the
>> television antenna you removed when you got cable 10 years ago? That's close
>> to a perfect analogy of this situation.
>
> Hardly, and it is further distasteful that you're attempting to justify
> your bad behavior. You used a term they did not understand in one
> context, so they tried to make sense of it in the only context they had
> for the term. You might like to laugh at them for it, but in their eyes
> you look just as foolish for trying to change the subject.
>
>> It was difficult to keep from cracking up, BUT WE DID NOT. My point,
>> entirely lost upon some, is that it's wrong to assume that someone's rek
>> about "having problems with your shop" is always an indication that there's
>> a "problem with your shop."
>
> Based upon your *direct* posts here, it is not surprising that people
> would indeed have problems with your shop. Instead of trying to
> convince yourself that *you* are not *possibly* to blame, why not take
> this criticism as constructive and fix your damn shop?
>
>> Don't get defensive, hear the story out and see
>> where it leads. In this case, the person hearing the story (my wife) had no
>> prior experience with this particular customer, who has probably been thrown
>> out of every shop but ours. We try to find ways to take care of people who
>> are not dealing with a full deck (is that simply the wrong way to put it? Is
>> that where some people became offended? Am I not being "PC" enough here?).
>
> From your post, the only obvious thing missing from their "deck" is an
> exhaustive glossary of bicycling terminology. My assumption would be
> that is precisely the type of people you should *expect* to get as
> customers for relatively simple repairs. My inclination would be to
> educate them more than laugh at them, but I suppose if you filled up
> their "deck" they wouldn't be so funny to you.
>
>> There's a lesson for many of us there. Don't assume that someone else's
>> world works quite the same as your own.
>
> Seems mostly to be a lesson for you. Seems like you haven't learned it.
>
I would guess you haven't worked in retail before? Like the OP tried to
make plain, some people JUST DON"T GET IT. They are incapable of applying
logic to their everyday life. The only response is to nod politely and
find some way of getting them out of the store, quickly. i am fortunate
in that my boss has given me permission in extreme cases, to refund the
money and ban the idiot. Hasn't happened, yet.
If I didn't know what a "cassette" was, and someone said that to me in
that case, my response would be "what?" or maybe look puzzled, which would
I am sure, have resulted in the explanation required. I would NOT have
jumped from the subject of bicycles to music storage formats because of
the similarity of terminology.
|
| | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 09:37:51
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
In article <2o8Ah.63760$Oa.56340@edtnps82 >, me <me@nowhere.com> wrote:
> I would guess you haven't worked in retail before?
Probably more than you. Or maybe I just did a better job of it than you.
> Like the OP tried to
> make plain, some people JUST DON"T GET IT. They are incapable of applying
> logic to their everyday life.
What was shown was not a lack of logic, but a misunderstanding of
terminology. Given the circumstances, there is nothing particularly
funny about it, and there is no good reason to belittle a customer on a
global forum.
> If I didn't know what a "cassette" was, and someone said that to me in
> that case, my response would be "what?" or maybe look puzzled, which would
> I am sure, have resulted in the explanation required. I would NOT have
> jumped from the subject of bicycles to music storage formats because of
> the similarity of terminology.
Well bully for your thought process, but the first thing you should have
learned when dealing with customers is that neither of you are mind
readers. As I have already posted, the basic misunderstanding makes it
just as easy for the *customer* to think that it is the employee who is
changing the subject. A polite correction goes a lot farther than a
stifled laugh followed by a post to Usenet saying the customer wasn't
sane.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
|
| |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 01:04:14
From: me
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 07:38:24 -0600, Doc O'Leary wrote:
> In article <eqngl0$k26$2@news.xmission.com>, D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch
> wrote:
>
>> Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet@1q2007.subsume.com> wrote:
>>
>> > So you tend to laugh at people who actually need your services? That is
>> > the oddest customer service I have ever heard of. It is even more
>> > strange that you'd post your poor attitude, seemingly *bragging*, to
>> > Usenet.
>>
>> I've seen the proverbial Clueless Newbie many a time. During my
>> planetarium years we sometimes had people ask us if we closed during
>> cloudy weather. At Bryce Canyon NP we had people ask us (a) who carved
>> all those sculptures and (b) was the canyon lighted at night. At Grand
>> Canyon a guy I know tried and failed to convince one tourist (we called
>> them "dudes," with the old meaning, not the current one) that the canyon
>> does not fill with snow up to the rim in winter. Give me a little time,
>> and I'm sure I can think of more like these.
>> And yes, I'm sure I've asked dumb questions myself in computer shops,
>> at airline ticket counters, or somewhere.
>> To the inititated, things like this will always be funny. The only
>> thing you can do is keep a straight face and answer the newby's question
>> in terms s/he can understand. But if you don't laugh about it later, you
>> ain't human.
>
> You're adding confusion to the issue. A lapse in logic, even one's own,
> can definitely be funny, but that is not the case here. This is a case
> of misunderstood terminology, which can be corrected simply by giving a
> definition. The only humor in the situation is laughing *with* the
> now-corrected customer if they find the misunderstanding funny, and not
> *at* the customer by posting the incident around the world on Usenet.
>
Hmmm, I can see both sides of the picture here, and suffer from the same
kinds of situation behind the counter of a computer Establishment.
If someone clearly doesn't understand some jargon, I immediately backup
and try to give them the information they need in a form they understand.
Some, however, do not seem to comprehend the "basics". Eventually, they
usually grasp what I'm trying to say, except for those who think I'm
trying to rip them off, or those who infrequently, have for some reason,
very firmly grasped the wrong end of the stick, or even the end of a
completely separate stick, and utterly refuse to let go.
Personally, someone who responded with the comment about CDs would in
my opinion fall into the latter camp. I would attempt to clarify what I
meant, but the completely disjointed nature of the reply indicates to
me their inability to use logic in their everyday life.
|
| |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 13:52:31
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
In article <_g1Ah.2407$g82.1805@trndny09 >,
Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com > writes:
> Fifteen years ago, buying my Trek 520 at the LBS, the owner (whom
> I grew to really detest), kept referring to the bike panniers as
> "panneeyeas" a la French pronunciation.
>
> Now I can't tell you if the French (who put their stamp on bicycle
> touring as no other nationality has) pronounce "bike bags" in that
> manner or not, but in the USA, I've always heard them referred to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> as "panneeyers".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's how I say it, too.
It seems many believe the word is etymologically related
to the French "pain" (bread,) and it's just a fancy way
of saying "bread basket."
But I consider it may be more related to the Greek "pan"
(all,) as in "carry-all." Maybe the 'ier' on the end
just makes it look like a French word.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
|
| |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 16:57:13
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for a flat
> tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling her he's had
> some problems with our shop, specifically that we had previously recommended
> his chain be replaced because it was worn. She explained to him that we
> recommend replacing chains when worn because if you let them go on too long,
> they wear out your cassette.
>
> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes anymore,
> just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he planned to ride the
> same chain until it broke.
>
> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so we try
> to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up in this case)
Came across something similar to this in my boat trailering magazine
recently.
A fellow driving down the highway is passed by a trailer where the
boat had fenders (air filled "bumpers" attached along the side of
the boat to protect the hull from damage with dock edges or other
boat hulls) attached, flapping away in the breeze.
The driver comes across the boat/trailer filling up for gas and
mildly mentions that it probably isn't a good idea to have the
fenders attached to the boat while flying down the highway as
damage to the gell coat is possible, not to mention loss of a fender.
The boater replies he's been boating for many years and that cars
have fenders and trucks have fenders boat trailers have fenders and
they don't appear to get lost along the highway.
The motorist is still not certain if the boater was joking or not!
SMH
|
| | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 19:00:00
From: Leo Lichtman
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Dear Mike--I was in your store the other day, and I bought something. While
he was waiting on me, the salesperson glanced at another employee. I am sure
they talked about me after I left. I have been watching here to find out
what was said, but you guys are so sly you haven't posted anything. I just
want you to know that's a good way to lose customers.
|
| | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 15:14:02
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"Leo Lichtman" <l.lichtman@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message
news:QUnAh.84528$Xq6.47312@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Dear Mike--I was in your store the other day, and I bought something.
> While he was waiting on me, the salesperson glanced at another employee. I
> am sure they talked about me after I left. I have been watching here to
> find out what was said, but you guys are so sly you haven't posted
> anything. I just want you to know that's a good way to lose customers.
>
Paranoid much?
|
| | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 15:00:54
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 wrote:
> "Leo Lichtman" <l.lichtman@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:QUnAh.84528$Xq6.47312@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> Dear Mike--I was in your store the other day, and I bought something.
>> While he was waiting on me, the salesperson glanced at another
>> employee. I am sure they talked about me after I left. I have been
>> watching here to find out what was said, but you guys are so sly you
>> haven't posted anything. I just want you to know that's a good way
>> to lose customers.
>
> Paranoid much?
Oblivious much?
|
| | | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 18:21:38
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me > wrote in message
news:45d24326$0$24741$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 wrote:
>> "Leo Lichtman" <l.lichtman@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>> news:QUnAh.84528$Xq6.47312@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>> Dear Mike--I was in your store the other day, and I bought something.
>>> While he was waiting on me, the salesperson glanced at another
>>> employee. I am sure they talked about me after I left. I have been
>>> watching here to find out what was said, but you guys are so sly you
>>> haven't posted anything. I just want you to know that's a good way
>>> to lose customers.
>>
>> Paranoid much?
>
> Oblivious much?
>
Happily.
|
| | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 19:55:58
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
> Dear Mike--I was in your store the other day, and I bought something.
> While he was waiting on me, the salesperson glanced at another employee. I
> am sure they talked about me after I left. I have been watching here to
> find out what was said, but you guys are so sly you haven't posted
> anything. I just want you to know that's a good way to lose customers.
Shhh. Maybe it's in our almost-daily diary section? We don't just talk about
our customers... we write 'em up! Anything that's worth talking about much
be worth documenting. : >)
I'm waiting for the thought-police to come and padlock our doors. If they
bring Jack Bauer with them, I'm concerned I'll break. Heck, if they bring
Jack Bauer with them, I'll offer to hand over the store to them if I can
leave with my life!!!
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | | |
Date: 16 Feb 2007 15:48:56
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>Dear Mike--I was in your store the other day, and I bought something.
>>While he was waiting on me, the salesperson glanced at another employee. I
>>am sure they talked about me after I left. I have been watching here to
>>find out what was said, but you guys are so sly you haven't posted
>>anything. I just want you to know that's a good way to lose customers.
>
> Shhh. Maybe it's in our almost-daily diary section? We don't just talk about
> our customers... we write 'em up! Anything that's worth talking about much
> be worth documenting. :>)
Do you have any videos of your foolish customers on YouTube
that we can watch while drinking beer and laugh at during
parties?
I would like to see someone putting the back tire on the
front wheel or putting a racing handlebar backwards on the
stem. People trying to figure out where to insert the
bicycle ignition key can also make for good merriment.
Crashes are always good too. Anyone testing bikes in your
parking lot and hitting telephone poles or better yet, parked
cars or people would be great!
I know it will get even funnier with more beer!
SMH
|
| |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 07:53:03
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Feb 11, 9:04 pm, "Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cycle_pat...@yahoo.ca >
wrote:
> On Feb 10, 9:54 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for a flat
> > tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling her he's had
> > some problems with our shop, specifically that we had previously recommended
> > his chain be replaced because it was worn. She explained to him that we
> > recommend replacing chains when worn because if you let them go on too long,
> > they wear out your cassette.
>
> > He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes anymore,
> > just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he planned to ride the
> > same chain until it broke.
>
> > (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so we try
> > to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up in this case)
>
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> Hi there.
>
> I worked at a place where a person came in and said, " I need the doo-
> hickey that fits on the which-a-ma-call-it that holds the thing-ma-
> bob." The other parts guy went and brought out a part for him. "That's
> the part I need." the customer says.
>
> After he left the other parts guy said, "That guy comes in for that
> same part about once a month."
>
> Cheers from Peter
Or earlier when a bike shop employee talked about 'cable operated
discs' and somebody thought they meant 'electric' disc brakes.
|
| |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 07:09:47
From: AustinMN
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Doc O'Leary wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
>
> > Uh... I see. So if you go to have your car repaired, and they tell you that
> > your antenna needs replacement, you would assume they're talking about the
> > television antenna you removed when you got cable 10 years ago? That's close
> > to a perfect analogy of this situation.
>
> Hardly, and it is further distasteful that you're attempting to justify
> your bad behavior. You used a term they did not understand in one
> context, so they tried to make sense of it in the only context they had
> for the term. You might like to laugh at them for it, but in their eyes
> you look just as foolish for trying to change the subject.
You need to get an enema. You are full of something, and getting it
out will help you feel better.
Austin
|
| |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 05:28:35
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Feb 11, 11:28 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> >> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for a
> >> flat
> >> tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling her he's
> >> had
> >> some problems with our shop, specifically that we had previously
> >> recommended
> >> his chain be replaced because it was worn. She explained to him that we
> >> recommend replacing chains when worn because if you let them go on too
> >> long,
> >> they wear out your cassette.
>
> >> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes
> >> anymore,
> >> just CDs. And he was serious.
>
> > Uh, why wouldn't he be? More to the point, why would you assume that
> > everyone who rides a bike also knows all the mechanical terminology?
> > While it might be common knowledge to you and most people here that a
> > (type of) rear cluster is also known as a cassette, we're probably also
> > more comfortable changing our own flats than this guy clearly was.
>
> Uh... I see. So if you go to have your car repaired, and they tell you that
> your antenna needs replacement, you would assume they're talking about the
> television antenna you removed when you got cable 10 years ago? That's close
> to a perfect analogy of this situation.
>
> >> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so we
> >> try
> >> to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up in this
> >> case)
>
> > So you tend to laugh at people who actually need your services? That is
> > the oddest customer service I have ever heard of. It is even more
> > strange that you'd post your poor attitude, seemingly *bragging*, to
> > Usenet.
>
> It was difficult to keep from cracking up, BUT WE DID NOT. My point,
> entirely lost upon some, is that it's wrong to assume that someone's rek
> about "having problems with your shop" is always an indication that there's
> a "problem with your shop." Don't get defensive, hear the story out and see
> where it leads. In this case, the person hearing the story (my wife) had no
> prior experience with this particular customer, who has probably been thrown
> out of every shop but ours. We try to find ways to take care of people who
> are not dealing with a full deck (is that simply the wrong way to put it? Is
> that where some people became offended? Am I not being "PC" enough here?).
>
> The point is that you have to hear the whole story, not just react to a
> simple statement ("I've had problems with your shop") that turns out to
> illustrate something's quite wrong with the person when you find out what's
> behind it. I obviously know more about this particular customer than I let
> on, but the point wasn't supposed to be so much about the customer as it was
> my wife's reaction to his initial statement, which caused concern until she
> followed up and recognized that all is not quite right with this guy.
> There's a lesson for many of us there. Don't assume that someone else's
> world works quite the same as your own.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Don't even try to explain Mike. Some are just going to take all this
the wrong way, completely missing your point. I have been there, when
I used a '4' letter word describing bcycles, about somebody that was
asking Velonews to be more serious in this daffy biz/sport. A few took
it completely out of context, forgot and/or ignored my point and then
painted the whole thing with a big/wide paintbrush. What makes retail
in genenal and bicycle retail specifically so frustrating at times.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 18:06:29
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
> Don't even try to explain Mike. Some are just going to take all this
> the wrong way, completely missing your point. I have been there, when
> I used a '4' letter word describing bcycles, about somebody that was
> asking Velonews to be more serious in this daffy biz/sport. A few took
> it completely out of context, forgot and/or ignored my point and then
> painted the whole thing with a big/wide paintbrush. What makes retail
> in genenal and bicycle retail specifically so frustrating at times.
Peter: The cast of characters in a newsgroup isn't static; once in a while
somebody sneaks in and doesn't immediately reveal their true character.
Posts like mine tend to flush them into the open very quickly. : >)
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 20:28:16
From: Leo Lichtman
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: (clip) Posts like mine tend to flush them into
the open very quickly. : >)
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mike, you have set off a chain reaction.
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 20:04:58
From: Sir Ridesalot
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Feb 10, 9:54 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for a flat
> tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling her he's had
> some problems with our shop, specifically that we had previously recommended
> his chain be replaced because it was worn. She explained to him that we
> recommend replacing chains when worn because if you let them go on too long,
> they wear out your cassette.
>
> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes anymore,
> just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he planned to ride the
> same chain until it broke.
>
> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so we try
> to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up in this case)
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Hi there.
I worked at a place where a person came in and said, " I need the doo-
hickey that fits on the which-a-ma-call-it that holds the thing-ma-
bob." The other parts guy went and brought out a part for him. "That's
the part I need." the customer says.
After he left the other parts guy said, "That guy comes in for that
same part about once a month."
Cheers from Peter
|
| | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 18:06:37
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> I worked at a place where a person came in and said, " I need the doo-
> hickey that fits on the which-a-ma-call-it that holds the thing-ma-
> bob." The other parts guy went and brought out a part for him. "That's
> the part I need." the customer says.
>
> After he left the other parts guy said, "That guy comes in for that
> same part about once a month."
Hope they didn't laugh!
SMH
|
| | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 23:42:49
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca > wrote in message
news:1171253098.004425.73620@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 10, 9:54 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for a
>> flat
>> tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling her he's
>> had
>> some problems with our shop, specifically that we had previously
>> recommended
>> his chain be replaced because it was worn. She explained to him that we
>> recommend replacing chains when worn because if you let them go on too
>> long,
>> they wear out your cassette.
>>
>> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes
>> anymore,
>> just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he planned to ride
>> the
>> same chain until it broke.
>>
>> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so we
>> try
>> to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up in this
>> case)
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> Hi there.
>
> I worked at a place where a person came in and said, " I need the doo-
> hickey that fits on the which-a-ma-call-it that holds the thing-ma-
> bob." The other parts guy went and brought out a part for him. "That's
> the part I need." the customer says.
>
> After he left the other parts guy said, "That guy comes in for that
> same part about once a month."
>
> Cheers from Peter
>
Awesome.
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 18:32:54
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
I've been in my local shop when a customer, after spending some great
length of time looking at bikes ended up spending around 5000rmb on a
Giant not because it was more within their price range but because the
more expensive bikes (Trek and Bianchi) were no name brands that
they'd never heard of before and clearly couldn't be anywhere near as
good as something as famous as a Giant. Not to mention the snob
appeal that a famous name brand like Giant has which these would never
have. Can't impress the neighbors with your ability to spend lots of
money if you get something no one has ever heard of.
Or, my newest favorite ... the sign over the fax machine instructing
my coworkers to please refrain from sending faxes until _after_ the
white-out is dry.
-M
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 17:10:08
From: Ted
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Mike
The guy was talking about his financial situation; he uses
certificates of deposit now, replacement of components is no object.
Therefore, stop trying preventive maintenance and just upsell him all
the time.
Ted
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 12:14:35
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Feb 11, 9:06 pm, "Leo Lichtman" <l.licht...@worldnet.att.net >
wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: (clip) Uh... I see. So if you go to have your car
>
> repaired, and they tell you that your antenna needs replacement, you would
> assume they're talking about the television antenna you removed when you
> got cable 10 years ago? That's close to a perfect analogy of this
> situation. (clip)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> No, because in your analogy, both items are antennae in function--not just
> in name. A better analogy might be mistaking pants cuffs for fisticuffs.
> Obviously, this needs to be argued out fully, and couldn't I bear to let
> that pass. (I mean bear as: endure--not bear as: a wild animal. And,
> "pass" as in go by, not....oh well.)
Ok, the guy comes into the garage with a non-functional clutch. The
mechanic says, "The cable has broken." the customer says, "That's ok,
I use satellite."
Joseph
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 12:12:29
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
In article <1171219545.813050.32160@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com >,
"joseph.santaniello@gmail.com" <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > writes:
> On Feb 11, 7:28 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> Uh... I see. So if you go to have your car repaired, and they tell you that
>> your antenna needs replacement, you would assume they're talking about the
>> television antenna you removed when you got cable 10 years ago? That's close
>> to a perfect analogy of this situation.
>
> And the best part is the person thinks the mechanic is the one off his
> rocker!
I can full well relate to Mike's experience.
Customer service is something one must really
enjoy, in order to do it well. That means
providing an even-handed level of service to
/all/ comers. And there's a number of categories
of them. There are the Chiselers who want to
make more of a profit out of the transaction
than the service provider, going to extreme
lengths to haggle for every measly freebie and
discount they think they might be able to get.
There are the Lonely Forsaken who want to yack
for hours on end because you're the only human
contact they've had in the last month.
There are the Perpetually Irate Customers who
come into the shop already primed & loaded to
complain, before they're even served.
There are the Desperately Impatient who must have
their exotic-import-that-needs-parts-ordered-in
fixed within the next 5 minutes, even if there's
a cueue of other customers behind them.
Bless 'em all. Most of those folks are actually
downright nice people. In fact, the majority of
customers are courteous, friendly, and come in with
reasonable expectations of the service they seek.
I did a stint in a TV repair shop back in the 80's.
So many customers, when returning to pick up their
repaired set would ask the fatal question: "What
was wrong with it?" If you explain it in technical
English (/not/ jargon,) their eyes would glaze over.
If you dumb it down for them, they think you're
BS'ing them. You can't win. Oh, well.
Providing that even-handed level of service doesn't
necessarily mean dealing with everyone in the same,
formulated way. A good Customer Service agent
"feels out" the best way to relate to, and interact
with each individual. /Nobody/ can pull that off
100% of the time, but it's the goal one shoots for.
While I've listed a number of general categories of
_customers_, the _individuals_ within those categories
represent as diverse a range of characters as any group
of people.
To do customer service for any length of time (such
as Mike has done) really takes truly liking people.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 10:45:49
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Feb 11, 7:28 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> Uh... I see. So if you go to have your car repaired, and they tell you that
> your antenna needs replacement, you would assume they're talking about the
> television antenna you removed when you got cable 10 years ago? That's close
> to a perfect analogy of this situation.
And the best part is the person thinks the mechanic is the one off his
rocker!
Joseph
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 08:16:42
From: TomP
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Mike, Mike, Mike you've really stepped in it now.
Now everyone knows the dirty little secret of how "Elitist shop owners'" laugh
at their customers behind their backs... shame on you.
What are you a Republican?
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for a flat
> tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling her he's had
> some problems with our shop, specifically that we had previously recommended
> his chain be replaced because it was worn. She explained to him that we
> recommend replacing chains when worn because if you let them go on too long,
> they wear out your cassette.
>
> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes anymore,
> just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he planned to ride the
> same chain until it broke.
>
> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so we try
> to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up in this case)
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
--
Tp,
-------- __o
----- -\<. -------- __o
--- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<.
-------------------- ( )/ ( )
-----------------------------------------
No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron...
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 06:41:03
From:
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Dear Mike:
SNIP
> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes anymore,
> just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he planned to ride the
> same chain until it broke.
SNIP
Ouch. Did you/your staff let the guy know when you or your local
bike advocacy group give basic bike repair lessons? As in, "You put
enough miles on that bike -- what if you get a flat far from a bike
shop?" I've seen Information technology people laugh the same way when
the jargon isn't understood by those not in the know.
By the way, did you see the latest "Bicycling" magazine? The one
with the articles on the best hill climbs around the United States? We
you their sole consultant on California hilly roads? Their picks were
all Old La Honda, Mt. Hamilton, Sierra Road -- it was like reading
your ride diary!
Robert Leone
|
| | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 21:47:20
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
rleone@hotmail.com wrote:
> Dear Mike:
> SNIP
>> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes anymore,
>> just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he planned to ride the
>> same chain until it broke.
> SNIP
> Ouch. Did you/your staff let the guy know when you or your local
> bike advocacy group give basic bike repair lessons? As in, "You put
> enough miles on that bike -- what if you get a flat far from a bike
> shop?" I've seen Information technology people laugh the same way when
> the jargon isn't understood by those not in the know.
> By the way, did you see the latest "Bicycling" magazine? The one
> with the articles on the best hill climbs around the United States? We
> you their sole consultant on California hilly roads? Their picks were
> all Old La Honda, Mt. Hamilton, Sierra Road -- it was like reading
> your ride diary!
> Robert Leone
>
Mt. Hamilton is a real ride if the path taken is the one over Mt. Day.
Climb 2,500' steep way up, then descent about 2,000' of that then climb
the 3,500' to the observatory and enjoy the view. Coming home you have a
2,500' descent and then oops, forgot about the final 2,000' climb to get
back over Mt. Day. It is a hot, hard ride, and you might just get
jealous of the hawk spiraling upwards on a thermal while you sweat your
butt off.
At the end of the day, and about 100 miles later you can feel like you
have done something. I did it twice as a teen and both times it was a
life lesson, like not being as fit as you think you are.
A definite 'yes' on the ride list.
Also anything at all in the area of the Big Basin, Big Bear, La Honda is
like cycling in a dream world where the trees are the rulers of the
land. You can ride in some places and never get hit by the sun, while it
may be in the 90's in San Jose. There are spots that never seem to get
over 65F, and you can actually be shivering while Silicon valley is cooking.
Bill Baka
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 00:48:56
From: nash
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"Bill Baka" <bbaka@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:I9Mzh.17519$ji1.7037@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
> rleone@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Dear Mike:
>> SNIP
>>> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes
>>> anymore,
>>> just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he planned to ride
>>> the
>>> same chain until it broke.
>> SNIP
>> Ouch. Did you/your staff let the guy know when you or your local
>> bike advocacy group give basic bike repair lessons? As in, "You put
>> enough miles on that bike -- what if you get a flat far from a bike
>> shop?" I've seen Information technology people laugh the same way when
>> the jargon isn't understood by those not in the know.
>> By the way, did you see the latest "Bicycling" magazine? The one
>> with the articles on the best hill climbs around the United States? We
>> you their sole consultant on California hilly roads? Their picks were
>> all Old La Honda, Mt. Hamilton, Sierra Road -- it was like reading
>> your ride diary!
>> Robert Leone
>>
> Mt. Hamilton is a real ride if the path taken is the one over Mt. Day.
> Climb 2,500' steep way up, then descent about 2,000' of that then climb
> the 3,500' to the observatory and enjoy the view. Coming home you have a
> 2,500' descent and then oops, forgot about the final 2,000' climb to get
> back over Mt. Day. It is a hot, hard ride, and you might just get jealous
> of the hawk spiraling upwards on a thermal while you sweat your butt off.
> At the end of the day, and about 100 miles later you can feel like you
> have done something. I did it twice as a teen and both times it was a life
> lesson, like not being as fit as you think you are.
> A definite 'yes' on the ride list.
> Also anything at all in the area of the Big Basin, Big Bear, La Honda is
> like cycling in a dream world where the trees are the rulers of the land.
> You can ride in some places and never get hit by the sun, while it may be
> in the 90's in San Jose. There are spots that never seem to get over 65F,
> and you can actually be shivering while Silicon valley is cooking.
> Bill Baka
Do you notice less oxygen too in the trees. They are suppose to hold in the
CO2 which they produce during the day making breathing or being in the sun
your choices.
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 02:58:17
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
nash wrote:
> "Bill Baka" <bbaka@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:I9Mzh.17519$ji1.7037@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
>> rleone@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Mt. Hamilton is a real ride if the path taken is the one over Mt. Day.
>> Climb 2,500' steep way up, then descent about 2,000' of that then climb
>> the 3,500' to the observatory and enjoy the view. Coming home you have a
*********************************************************
>> 3,500' descent and then oops, forgot about the final 2,000' climb to get
**********Correction******3,500' not 2,500***********BB*******
>> back over Mt. Day. It is a hot, hard ride, and you might just get jealous
>> of the hawk spiraling upwards on a thermal while you sweat your butt off.
>> At the end of the day, and about 100 miles later you can feel like you
>> have done something. I did it twice as a teen and both times it was a life
>> lesson, like not being as fit as you think you are.
>> A definite 'yes' on the ride list.
>> Also anything at all in the area of the Big Basin, Big Bear, La Honda is
>> like cycling in a dream world where the trees are the rulers of the land.
>> You can ride in some places and never get hit by the sun, while it may be
>> in the 90's in San Jose. There are spots that never seem to get over 65F,
>> and you can actually be shivering while Silicon valley is cooking.
>> Bill Baka
>
> Do you notice less oxygen too in the trees. They are suppose to hold in the
> CO2 which they produce during the day making breathing or being in the sun
> your choices.
>
>
Do the ride. After you have done that one I may answer you. Very little
in the way of trees on that ride. The CO2 gets taken care of on the
other side of Silicon valley by the Big Basin trees.
One thing that did get me on the Hamilton ride was getting chased by
angry bees while riding UPhill. I got away but nearly died after that
climb with bees on my tail.
Bill Baka
|
| | | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 06:33:42
From: nash
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
I was referring to this passage
<<like cycling in a dream world where the trees are the rulers of the land.
>> You can ride in some places and never get hit by the sun
where you said trees rule the land. Lack of O2 in the lungs could be from
being robbed by the CO2 concentration .
other than that nevermind.
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 07:58:19
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
In article <Bzvzh.17380$ji1.15484@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net >,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for a flat
> tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling her he's had
> some problems with our shop, specifically that we had previously recommended
> his chain be replaced because it was worn. She explained to him that we
> recommend replacing chains when worn because if you let them go on too long,
> they wear out your cassette.
>
> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes anymore,
> just CDs. And he was serious.
Uh, why wouldn't he be? More to the point, why would you assume that
everyone who rides a bike also knows all the mechanical terminology?
While it might be common knowledge to you and most people here that a
(type of) rear cluster is also known as a cassette, we're probably also
more comfortable changing our own flats than this guy clearly was.
> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so we try
> to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up in this case)
So you tend to laugh at people who actually need your services? That is
the oddest customer service I have ever heard of. It is even more
strange that you'd post your poor attitude, seemingly *bragging*, to
Usenet.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
|
| | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 18:28:12
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
>> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for a
>> flat
>> tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling her he's
>> had
>> some problems with our shop, specifically that we had previously
>> recommended
>> his chain be replaced because it was worn. She explained to him that we
>> recommend replacing chains when worn because if you let them go on too
>> long,
>> they wear out your cassette.
>>
>> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes
>> anymore,
>> just CDs. And he was serious.
>
> Uh, why wouldn't he be? More to the point, why would you assume that
> everyone who rides a bike also knows all the mechanical terminology?
> While it might be common knowledge to you and most people here that a
> (type of) rear cluster is also known as a cassette, we're probably also
> more comfortable changing our own flats than this guy clearly was.
Uh... I see. So if you go to have your car repaired, and they tell you that
your antenna needs replacement, you would assume they're talking about the
television antenna you removed when you got cable 10 years ago? That's close
to a perfect analogy of this situation.
>> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so we
>> try
>> to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up in this
>> case)
>
> So you tend to laugh at people who actually need your services? That is
> the oddest customer service I have ever heard of. It is even more
> strange that you'd post your poor attitude, seemingly *bragging*, to
> Usenet.
It was difficult to keep from cracking up, BUT WE DID NOT. My point,
entirely lost upon some, is that it's wrong to assume that someone's rek
about "having problems with your shop" is always an indication that there's
a "problem with your shop." Don't get defensive, hear the story out and see
where it leads. In this case, the person hearing the story (my wife) had no
prior experience with this particular customer, who has probably been thrown
out of every shop but ours. We try to find ways to take care of people who
are not dealing with a full deck (is that simply the wrong way to put it? Is
that where some people became offended? Am I not being "PC" enough here?).
The point is that you have to hear the whole story, not just react to a
simple statement ("I've had problems with your shop") that turns out to
illustrate something's quite wrong with the person when you find out what's
behind it. I obviously know more about this particular customer than I let
on, but the point wasn't supposed to be so much about the customer as it was
my wife's reaction to his initial statement, which caused concern until she
followed up and recognized that all is not quite right with this guy.
There's a lesson for many of us there. Don't assume that someone else's
world works quite the same as your own.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 07:21:30
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
In article <0fJzh.43289$Gr2.12132@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net >,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> Uh... I see. So if you go to have your car repaired, and they tell you that
> your antenna needs replacement, you would assume they're talking about the
> television antenna you removed when you got cable 10 years ago? That's close
> to a perfect analogy of this situation.
Hardly, and it is further distasteful that you're attempting to justify
your bad behavior. You used a term they did not understand in one
context, so they tried to make sense of it in the only context they had
for the term. You might like to laugh at them for it, but in their eyes
you look just as foolish for trying to change the subject.
> It was difficult to keep from cracking up, BUT WE DID NOT. My point,
> entirely lost upon some, is that it's wrong to assume that someone's rek
> about "having problems with your shop" is always an indication that there's
> a "problem with your shop."
Based upon your *direct* posts here, it is not surprising that people
would indeed have problems with your shop. Instead of trying to
convince yourself that *you* are not *possibly* to blame, why not take
this criticism as constructive and fix your damn shop?
> Don't get defensive, hear the story out and see
> where it leads. In this case, the person hearing the story (my wife) had no
> prior experience with this particular customer, who has probably been thrown
> out of every shop but ours. We try to find ways to take care of people who
> are not dealing with a full deck (is that simply the wrong way to put it? Is
> that where some people became offended? Am I not being "PC" enough here?).
From your post, the only obvious thing missing from their "deck" is an
exhaustive glossary of bicycling terminology. My assumption would be
that is precisely the type of people you should *expect* to get as
customers for relatively simple repairs. My inclination would be to
educate them more than laugh at them, but I suppose if you filled up
their "deck" they wouldn't be so funny to you.
> There's a lesson for many of us there. Don't assume that someone else's
> world works quite the same as your own.
Seems mostly to be a lesson for you. Seems like you haven't learned it.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 11:39:20
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
This original post obviously brought out some past painful memory for
you--so painful that you are now trying to roast Mike for it. He wasn't
there! I'm sorry you were embarrassed. Now, get over it.
Pat in TX
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 17:28:46
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Doc O'Leary wrote:
> In article <0fJzh.43289$Gr2.12132@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>Uh... I see. So if you go to have your car repaired, and they tell you that
>>your antenna needs replacement, you would assume they're talking about the
>>television antenna you removed when you got cable 10 years ago? That's close
>>to a perfect analogy of this situation.
>
> Hardly, and it is further distasteful that you're attempting to justify
> your bad behavior. You used a term they did not understand in one
> context, so they tried to make sense of it in the only context they had
> for the term. You might like to laugh at them for it, but in their eyes
> you look just as foolish for trying to change the subject.
He didn't laugh *at* the guy!
They chuckled about it *afterwards*.
>>It was difficult to keep from cracking up, BUT WE DID NOT. My point,
>>entirely lost upon some, is that it's wrong to assume that someone's rek
>>about "having problems with your shop" is always an indication that there's
>>a "problem with your shop."
>
> Based upon your *direct* posts here, it is not surprising that people
> would indeed have problems with your shop. Instead of trying to
> convince yourself that *you* are not *possibly* to blame, why not take
> this criticism as constructive and fix your damn shop?
I think your reading comprehension needs fixing!
Funny stories *abound* in customer relations. Probably most
often the customer never fully realizes they've made a gaff
of some sort.
The customer may "always be right" in business practice, but
we all know customers are ignorant dorks at times, perhaps
deserving of rough treatment by a business. But it rarely
ever happens for "good business practices" reasons.
>>Don't get defensive, hear the story out and see
>>where it leads. In this case, the person hearing the story (my wife) had no
>>prior experience with this particular customer, who has probably been thrown
>>out of every shop but ours. We try to find ways to take care of people who
>>are not dealing with a full deck (is that simply the wrong way to put it? Is
>>that where some people became offended? Am I not being "PC" enough here?).
>
> From your post, the only obvious thing missing from their "deck" is an
> exhaustive glossary of bicycling terminology. My assumption would be
> that is precisely the type of people you should *expect* to get as
> customers for relatively simple repairs. My inclination would be to
> educate them more than laugh at them, but I suppose if you filled up
> their "deck" they wouldn't be so funny to you.
He didn't laugh at them! It was a humorous story that brought
about laugher (if that) after the customer was gone. The
customer apparently never knew he made such a gaff.
>>There's a lesson for many of us there. Don't assume that someone else's
>>world works quite the same as your own.
>
> Seems mostly to be a lesson for you. Seems like you haven't learned it.
Seems you need to re-read the post.
SMH
|
| | | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 09:49:54
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
In article <it1Ah.2834$ov2.582@trndny06 >,
Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com > wrote:
> Doc O'Leary wrote:
> >
> > Hardly, and it is further distasteful that you're attempting to justify
> > your bad behavior. You used a term they did not understand in one
> > context, so they tried to make sense of it in the only context they had
> > for the term. You might like to laugh at them for it, but in their eyes
> > you look just as foolish for trying to change the subject.
>
> He didn't laugh *at* the guy!
>
> They chuckled about it *afterwards*.
Yes, which is why I wrote "might like to laugh". And, again, please
explain to me how it is better to laugh at them behind their back on a
global forum?
> Funny stories *abound* in customer relations. Probably most
> often the customer never fully realizes they've made a gaff
> of some sort.
I'm all for a funny story of a bad customer getting what they deserve,
but this wasn't one. Someone misunderstood an obscure bit of mechanical
terminology, and for that they are called insane world wide?
> He didn't laugh at them! It was a humorous story that brought
> about laugher (if that) after the customer was gone. The
> customer apparently never knew he made such a gaff.
I'm just stunned that so many of you think that is a good thing! As I
have already said, the customer should have been corrected on the spot
and a laugh (if that) *shared*. What happened here, and your defense of
Mike, is just perpetual cruelty.
> >>There's a lesson for many of us there. Don't assume that someone else's
> >>world works quite the same as your own.
> >
> > Seems mostly to be a lesson for you. Seems like you haven't learned it.
>
> Seems you need to re-read the post.
I have. Perhaps it is you who needs to go back and see things from the
customer's perspective.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
|
| | | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 20:06:50
From: Leo Lichtman
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: (clip) Uh... I see. So if you go to have your car
repaired, and they tell you that your antenna needs replacement, you would
assume they're talking about the television antenna you removed when you
got cable 10 years ago? That's close to a perfect analogy of this
situation. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No, because in your analogy, both items are antennae in function--not just
in name. A better analogy might be mistaking pants cuffs for fisticuffs.
Obviously, this needs to be argued out fully, and couldn't I bear to let
that pass. (I mean bear as: endure--not bear as: a wild animal. And,
"pass" as in go by, not....oh well.)
|
| | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 16:35:44
From:
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet@1q2007.subsume.com > wrote:
> So you tend to laugh at people who actually need your services? That is
> the oddest customer service I have ever heard of. It is even more
> strange that you'd post your poor attitude, seemingly *bragging*, to
> Usenet.
I've seen the proverbial Clueless Newbie many a time. During my
planetarium years we sometimes had people ask us if we closed during
cloudy weather. At Bryce Canyon NP we had people ask us (a) who carved
all those sculptures and (b) was the canyon lighted at night. At Grand
Canyon a guy I know tried and failed to convince one tourist (we called
them "dudes," with the old meaning, not the current one) that the canyon
does not fill with snow up to the rim in winter. Give me a little time,
and I'm sure I can think of more like these.
And yes, I'm sure I've asked dumb questions myself in computer shops,
at airline ticket counters, or somewhere.
To the inititated, things like this will always be funny. The only
thing you can do is keep a straight face and answer the newby's question
in terms s/he can understand. But if you don't laugh about it later, you
ain't human.
Bill
__________________________________________________________________
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 07:38:24
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
In article <eqngl0$k26$2@news.xmission.com >, D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch
wrote:
> Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet@1q2007.subsume.com> wrote:
>
> > So you tend to laugh at people who actually need your services? That is
> > the oddest customer service I have ever heard of. It is even more
> > strange that you'd post your poor attitude, seemingly *bragging*, to
> > Usenet.
>
> I've seen the proverbial Clueless Newbie many a time. During my
> planetarium years we sometimes had people ask us if we closed during
> cloudy weather. At Bryce Canyon NP we had people ask us (a) who carved
> all those sculptures and (b) was the canyon lighted at night. At Grand
> Canyon a guy I know tried and failed to convince one tourist (we called
> them "dudes," with the old meaning, not the current one) that the canyon
> does not fill with snow up to the rim in winter. Give me a little time,
> and I'm sure I can think of more like these.
> And yes, I'm sure I've asked dumb questions myself in computer shops,
> at airline ticket counters, or somewhere.
> To the inititated, things like this will always be funny. The only
> thing you can do is keep a straight face and answer the newby's question
> in terms s/he can understand. But if you don't laugh about it later, you
> ain't human.
You're adding confusion to the issue. A lapse in logic, even one's own,
can definitely be funny, but that is not the case here. This is a case
of misunderstood terminology, which can be corrected simply by giving a
definition. The only humor in the situation is laughing *with* the
now-corrected customer if they find the misunderstanding funny, and not
*at* the customer by posting the incident around the world on Usenet.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 23:13:05
From: Dennis P. Harris
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 07:38:24 -0600 in rec.bicycles.misc, Doc
O'Leary <droleary.usenet@1q2007.subsume.com > wrote:
> You're adding confusion to the issue. A lapse in logic, even one's own,
> can definitely be funny, but that is not the case here. This is a case
> of misunderstood terminology, which can be corrected simply by giving a
> definition. The only humor in the situation is laughing *with* the
> now-corrected customer if they find the misunderstanding funny, and not
> *at* the customer by posting the incident around the world on Usenet.
>
you sir, are a waste of bandwidth with your oversensitive
fussiness and judgemental attitude. PLONK.
|
| | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 09:38:11
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
>> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes
>> anymore,
>> just CDs. And he was serious.
>
> Uh, why wouldn't he be? More to the point, why would you assume that
> everyone who rides a bike also knows all the mechanical terminology?
> While it might be common knowledge to you and most people here that a
> (type of) rear cluster is also known as a cassette, we're probably also
> more comfortable changing our own flats than this guy clearly was.
Now, think about what you just wrote for a second. Why would the guy think
his CD player would have anything to do with his bicycle chain? If she was
talking about the chain wearing out something---anything---it would have to
be something the chain touches!
You are bending over backward to be contentious. Get a grip, man!
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 07:06:37
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
In article <538rjbF1rmv3tU1@mid.individual.net >,
"Pat" <Pat@faraway.com > wrote:
> >> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes
> >> anymore,
> >> just CDs. And he was serious.
> >
> > Uh, why wouldn't he be? More to the point, why would you assume that
> > everyone who rides a bike also knows all the mechanical terminology?
> > While it might be common knowledge to you and most people here that a
> > (type of) rear cluster is also known as a cassette, we're probably also
> > more comfortable changing our own flats than this guy clearly was.
>
> Now, think about what you just wrote for a second. Why would the guy think
> his CD player would have anything to do with his bicycle chain?
Your mistake is to empathize with Mike because he's posting here. If
you look at it from the customer's perspective, why does this moron bike
mechanic think a chain has anything to do with a music player? Is is
clear *now* how being an elitist prick creates an opportunity for both
sides to look foolish?
> If she was
> talking about the chain wearing out something---anything---it would have to
> be something the chain touches!
Yes, if both parties were in the same conversation. Clearly they were
not, and laughing at the customer over a misunderstanding of terminology
is not helpful.
> You are bending over backward to be contentious. Get a grip, man!
No, I am bending over backwards because the customer is not here to
defend themselves and because Mike is contributing to an unfriendly
biking atmosphere, as are you.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 11:36:35
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
>> Now, think about what you just wrote for a second. Why would the guy
>> think
>> his CD player would have anything to do with his bicycle chain?
Pat
> Your mistake is to empathize with Mike because he's posting here. If
> you look at it from the customer's perspective, why does this moron bike
> mechanic think a chain has anything to do with a music player? Is is
> clear *now* how being an elitist prick creates an opportunity for both
> sides to look foolish?
You are reading something into the original post that wasn't there! Mike
isn't an "elitist prick"! The customer didn't have an inkling that the bike
mechanic thought anything was out of the ordinary...he wasn't affected at
all! He left the shop happy. It seems to me that some people are reading
into that simple post some hurtful experience from their past. Are you
being honest with yourself, here? Did somebody who you call "elitist" make
you feel small or foolish?
>
>> You are bending over backward to be contentious. Get a grip, man!
Pat
>
> No, I am bending over backwards because the customer is not here to
> defend themselves and because Mike is contributing to an unfriendly
> biking atmosphere, as are you.
That would only be true if the customer was made to feel uncomfortable. He
wasn't! You are simply reading things into the post that don't exist. The
customer doesn't have to "defend" himself because he is oblivious of any
problem. Mike isn't "contributing to an unfriendly biking atmosphere", he's
merely relating a "war story" from his busy shop.
Pat in TX
|
| | | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 09:30:17
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
In article <53bmtdF1rme27U1@mid.individual.net >,
"Pat" <Pat@faraway.com > wrote:
> > Your mistake is to empathize with Mike because he's posting here. If
> > you look at it from the customer's perspective, why does this moron bike
> > mechanic think a chain has anything to do with a music player? Is is
> > clear *now* how being an elitist prick creates an opportunity for both
> > sides to look foolish?
>
> You are reading something into the original post that wasn't there! Mike
> isn't an "elitist prick"!
Yes, he clearly is. Stop defending him because he is here to defend
himself. The person that needs to be represented here is the customer.
> The customer didn't have an inkling that the bike
> mechanic thought anything was out of the ordinary...he wasn't affected at
> all! He left the shop happy.
Now who is reading stuff into posts? Nothing was mentioned about how
the incident ended, and fixing the flat was completely unrelated to
Mike's intent to belittle the customer on Usenet.
> It seems to me that some people are reading
> into that simple post some hurtful experience from their past. Are you
> being honest with yourself, here? Did somebody who you call "elitist" make
> you feel small or foolish?
If so, it would mean my empathy is at least well placed. What would
embarrass me would be to take Mike's side because I instead had some
deep-seated desire to get revenge on a world that has treated me so
badly . . . by being an elitist prick to a random person who wants to
give me money. If you *really* think a cycle of abuse is the answer,
you need to read those psychology books over again before you attempt to
analyze someone else.
> > No, I am bending over backwards because the customer is not here to
> > defend themselves and because Mike is contributing to an unfriendly
> > biking atmosphere, as are you.
>
> That would only be true if the customer was made to feel uncomfortable. He
> wasn't!
Yes, because it is *so* much better to talk about them behind their back
on a global forum! What's next, posting security videos on YouTube
under the title "Look What Kind of Jerkwads We Get In Our Shop". I am
simply amazed that you, and others, are so eager to see customers
treated poorly, as though you are never a customer yourself.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 08:22:47
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 07:06:37 -0600, Doc O'Leary
<droleary.usenet@1q2007.subsume.com > wrote:
>Your mistake is to empathize with Mike because he's posting here. If
>you look at it from the customer's perspective, why does this moron bike
>mechanic think a chain has anything to do with a music player? Is is
>clear *now* how being an elitist prick creates an opportunity for both
>sides to look foolish?
You appear to be a minority of one here, so I will defer to your
perspective on being an elitist prick and looking foolish.
Your life must be one of constant confusion, most of which you blame
on the other person. Like here, right now.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
|
| | | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 21:37:04
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Pat wrote:
>>> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes
>>> anymore,
>>> just CDs. And he was serious.
>> Uh, why wouldn't he be? More to the point, why would you assume that
>> everyone who rides a bike also knows all the mechanical terminology?
>> While it might be common knowledge to you and most people here that a
>> (type of) rear cluster is also known as a cassette, we're probably also
>> more comfortable changing our own flats than this guy clearly was.
>
> Now, think about what you just wrote for a second. Why would the guy think
> his CD player would have anything to do with his bicycle chain? If she was
> talking about the chain wearing out something---anything---it would have to
> be something the chain touches!
>
>
> You are bending over backward to be contentious. Get a grip, man!
>
>
Too funny. I only wish there was a video. Laughing mode.
Bill Baka
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 02:40:38
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Feb 11, 3:54 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for a flat
> tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling her he's had
> some problems with our shop, specifically that we had previously recommended
> his chain be replaced because it was worn. She explained to him that we
> recommend replacing chains when worn because if you let them go on too long,
> they wear out your cassette.
>
> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes anymore,
> just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he planned to ride the
> same chain until it broke.
>
> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so we try
> to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up in this case)
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Hanging out at the LBS the other day I think this guy's missing twin
was in to complain. He had purchased a $300 MTB a month earlier, and
complained that it was dangerous and had caused him to crash, ruining
his vacation, and that it didn't shift right. He also claimed he rode
about 1000 km per week as he used his bike for transport for his job
which was to "collect information about compaines that need to be
investigated." His belly seemed to suggest that this 1000km claim was
a bit exagerated. The guy at the store took one look at the bike which
was completly trashed, and just to get rid of the guy, tried to offer
fixing everything for free. The rear hanger was bent among other
things so he figured it would be an easy fix. The guy wasn't
interested. He wanted a list over all the other customers that had
bought the same bike because he was going to bring a class action suit
against the shop on their behalf. And he wanted his money back. He
then stated saying the frame was an amazingly good quality frame, but
the bike was terrible, and he knows about frames. He then started
rummaging through his bag which was overflowing with folders and files
of an illegible nature for at least 20 minutes looking for something.
Then he just left. The kid at the store joked to me that maybe the
should give the boss' cell-phone number to the guy as punishment for
not giving his a raise.
I looked at the bike and my theory is that someone at the group home
where this guy must live probably has the same bike albeit a few years
older, and somehow they got mixed up and this nut didn't notice.
It sure brightened up the day.
Then a guy came in with a grungy wheel with a flat. He wanted a refund
because he had gotten a flat fixed there "only a few weeks ago". He
put the wheel on the counter and the LBS guy looked at it for about 2
seconds and then pointed to a HUGE nail that was sticking into the
tire. "Oh, I didn't see that." the customer said.
I feel for you guys!
Joseph
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 03:29:13
From:
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Mike Jacoubowsky writes:
> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in
> for a flat tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then
> telling her he's had some problems with our shop, specifically that
> we had previously recommended his chain be replaced because it was
> worn. She explained to him that we recommend replacing chains when
> worn because if you let them go on too long, they wear out your
> cassette.
> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes
> anymore, just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he
> planned to ride the same chain until it broke.
> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so
> we try to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking
> up in this case)
I see the same problem here in this forum. When discussing mechanical
items on bicycles, especially with someone like the customer in
question, not using jargon is the best policy. I find using cassette
awkward because whether they are individual sprockets of a cassette is
immaterial. The sprockets wear to a point where they must all be
replaced when the chain is replaced. That's the problem.
The customer may discover his faux pas later and feel embarrassed,
choosing not to come back to this shop where he made these blunders.
Many people revel in assimilating as much bike-jargon as possible to
show they are part of the in group. I notice it while riding, where a
newbie seems to say to himself, now's my chance and shouts "on your
left", as if it made any difference on an empty road.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 18:14:35
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
>> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in
>> for a flat tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then
>> telling her he's had some problems with our shop, specifically that
>> we had previously recommended his chain be replaced because it was
>> worn. She explained to him that we recommend replacing chains when
>> worn because if you let them go on too long, they wear out your
>> cassette.
>
>> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes
>> anymore, just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he
>> planned to ride the same chain until it broke.
>
>> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so
>> we try to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking
>> up in this case)
>
> I see the same problem here in this forum. When discussing mechanical
> items on bicycles, especially with someone like the customer in
> question, not using jargon is the best policy. I find using cassette
> awkward because whether they are individual sprockets of a cassette is
> immaterial. The sprockets wear to a point where they must all be
> replaced when the chain is replaced. That's the problem.
No Jobst, that's not the problem. The customer honestly thought there was a
connection between his bike and a cassette player. The point of my
illustration, which you seem to want to avoid by pretending it's something
else that you're on a personal crusade about, is that this customer is not
to be taken literally about anything. The mis-communication doesn't occur
because we, as a shop, are using jargon. The mis-communication comes because
we, as a shop, hear a comment and think oh my, what did we do, when the
reality is that this particular customer is not to be taken literally for
just about anything.
> The customer may discover his faux pas later and feel embarrassed,
> choosing not to come back to this shop where he made these blunders.
> Many people revel in assimilating as much bike-jargon as possible to
> show they are part of the in group. I notice it while riding, where a
> newbie seems to say to himself, now's my chance and shouts "on your
> left", as if it made any difference on an empty road.
Just as someone in a newsgroup might feel when an experienced old hand comes
down on them with sarcastic reks that could have been couched more
politely. One wonders if the desire of the experienced old hand is not to
help the person understand the err of his or her ways, but rather to rid
them from the newsgroup through such embarrassment. For good or bad, it
seems to be a tactic that rarely works in a newsgroup.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 17:15:38
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> No Jobst, that's not the problem. The customer honestly thought there was a
> connection between his bike and a cassette player. The point of my
> illustration, which you seem to want to avoid by pretending it's something
> else that you're on a personal crusade about, is that this customer is not
> to be taken literally about anything. The mis-communication doesn't occur
> because we, as a shop, are using jargon. The mis-communication comes because
> we, as a shop, hear a comment and think oh my, what did we do, when the
> reality is that this particular customer is not to be taken literally for
> just about anything.
Well there is "jargon" and there is simply communicating the
need for some component of a product.
I have my doubts whether some commercial establishment would
laugh themselves silly because someone doesn't know the difference
between a "cassette" or "freewheel" and "rear gears". A rather
poor business practice I would think.
Yet the customer should make an effort to know components of a
gizmo, whether bicycle, lawn mower or stereo equipment to better
communicate their needs to the professional.
Not a real requirement of course, but it makes things easier and
clearer in communicating what is needed.
Fifteen years ago, buying my Trek 520 at the LBS, the owner (whom
I grew to really detest), kept referring to the bike panniers as
"panneeyeas" a la French pronunciation.
Now I can't tell you if the French (who put their stamp on bicycle
touring as no other nationality has) pronounce "bike bags" in that
manner or not, but in the USA, I've always heard them referred to
as "panneeyers".
Perhaps that's the barbaric American gutting of a perfectly good
French term, but that's how they pronounce it in these parts.
I still chuckle a bit when I think back on this. French style
pronunciation and French style arrogance in communication at
the LBS!
> Just as someone in a newsgroup might feel when an experienced old hand comes
> down on them with sarcastic reks that could have been couched more
> politely. One wonders if the desire of the experienced old hand is not to
> help the person understand the err of his or her ways, but rather to rid
> them from the newsgroup through such embarrassment. For good or bad, it
> seems to be a tactic that rarely works in a newsgroup.
No! Who would do such a thing?
SMH
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 23:28:13
From: Dennis P. Harris
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:15:38 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, Stephen
Harding <smharding16@msn.com > wrote:
> Fifteen years ago, buying my Trek 520 at the LBS, the owner (whom
> I grew to really detest), kept referring to the bike panniers as
> "panneeyeas" a la French pronunciation.
>
> Now I can't tell you if the French (who put their stamp on bicycle
> touring as no other nationality has) pronounce "bike bags" in that
> manner or not, but in the USA, I've always heard them referred to
> as "panneeyers".
>
> Perhaps that's the barbaric American gutting of a perfectly good
> French term, but that's how they pronounce it in these parts
well, they're ignorant. as a francophone, i think that anyone
who think's it's "arrogant" to pronounce foreign language words
correctly (i also correctly pronounce spanish, german, and
italian, even though i don't speak them, because i used to be a
classical music announcer) is full of false pride in their
ignorance and stupidity, which means that they're arrogant about
knowing nothing.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 12:12:41
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Dennis P. Harris wrote:
>>Perhaps that's the barbaric American gutting of a perfectly good
>>French term, but that's how they pronounce it in these parts
>
>
> well, they're ignorant. as a francophone, i think that anyone
> who think's it's "arrogant" to pronounce foreign language words
> correctly (i also correctly pronounce spanish, german, and
> italian, even though i don't speak them, because i used to be a
> classical music announcer) is full of false pride in their
> ignorance and stupidity, which means that they're arrogant about
> knowing nothing.
I guess it must be "Leenooks" and not "Lienucks" for you then!
SMH
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 11:31:15
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
>
> I have my doubts whether some commercial establishment would
> laugh themselves silly because someone doesn't know the difference
> between a "cassette" or "freewheel" and "rear gears". A rather
> poor business practice I would think.
>
> SMH
Re-read the original post. He didn't say he thought it was funny that the
customer didn't know the difference between a cassette and a freewheel. He
didn't say they laughed themselves silly. You are interpreting all of that
into his post. He didn't write what you think he wrote!
Pat in TX
|
| | | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 21:31:24
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Pat wrote:
>>I have my doubts whether some commercial establishment would
>>laugh themselves silly because someone doesn't know the difference
>>between a "cassette" or "freewheel" and "rear gears". A rather
>>poor business practice I would think.
>
> Re-read the original post. He didn't say he thought it was funny that the
> customer didn't know the difference between a cassette and a freewheel. He
> didn't say they laughed themselves silly. You are interpreting all of that
> into his post. He didn't write what you think he wrote!
What is this, misinterpret posts week on rbm???
Re-read my post!
I doubted any commercial establishment would laugh themselves silly
because a customer didn't know a correct term for something.
It would be bad business at the very best. Mike didn't do that.
I never believed he did.
If I didn't make that clear enough in my original writing, I
hope I'm doing so now.
SMH
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 12:25:50
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:15:38 GMT, Stephen Harding
<smharding16@msn.com > wrote:
>Fifteen years ago, buying my Trek 520 at the LBS, the owner (whom
>I grew to really detest), kept referring to the bike panniers as
>"panneeyeas" a la French pronunciation.
I'm guessing you don't like how people pronounce 'forte' either.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
|
| | | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 21:27:08
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:15:38 GMT, Stephen Harding
> <smharding16@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Fifteen years ago, buying my Trek 520 at the LBS, the owner (whom
>>I grew to really detest), kept referring to the bike panniers as
>>"panneeyeas" a la French pronunciation.
>
> I'm guessing you don't like how people pronounce 'forte' either.
Your right! I think both versions are now considered correct.
The one that always got me was "err". In High School English
class, we were told it was pronounced "err" not "air".
But again, I believe both pronunciations are considered correct
these days.
SMH
|
| | | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 19:11:39
From: Cathy Kearns
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:f2Jzh.43286$Gr2.10464@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
>>> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in
>>> for a flat tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then
>>> telling her he's had some problems with our shop, specifically that
>>> we had previously recommended his chain be replaced because it was
>>> worn. She explained to him that we recommend replacing chains when
>>> worn because if you let them go on too long, they wear out your
>>> cassette.
>>
>>> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes
>>> anymore, just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he
>>> planned to ride the same chain until it broke.
>>
>>> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so
>>> we try to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking
>>> up in this case)
>>
>> I see the same problem here in this forum. When discussing mechanical
>> items on bicycles, especially with someone like the customer in
>> question, not using jargon is the best policy. I find using cassette
>> awkward because whether they are individual sprockets of a cassette is
>> immaterial. The sprockets wear to a point where they must all be
>> replaced when the chain is replaced. That's the problem.
>
>
> No Jobst, that's not the problem. The customer honestly thought there was
> a connection between his bike and a cassette player. The point of my
> illustration, which you seem to want to avoid by pretending it's something
> else that you're on a personal crusade about, is that this customer is not
> to be taken literally about anything. The mis-communication doesn't occur
> because we, as a shop, are using jargon. The mis-communication comes
> because we, as a shop, hear a comment and think oh my, what did we do,
> when the reality is that this particular customer is not to be taken
> literally for just about anything.
>
>> The customer may discover his faux pas later and feel embarrassed,
>> choosing not to come back to this shop where he made these blunders.
>> Many people revel in assimilating as much bike-jargon as possible to
>> show they are part of the in group. I notice it while riding, where a
>> newbie seems to say to himself, now's my chance and shouts "on your
>> left", as if it made any difference on an empty road.
>
> Just as someone in a newsgroup might feel when an experienced old hand
> comes down on them with sarcastic reks that could have been couched
> more politely. One wonders if the desire of the experienced old hand is
> not to help the person understand the err of his or her ways, but rather
> to rid them from the newsgroup through such embarrassment. For good or
> bad, it seems to be a tactic that rarely works in a newsgroup.
I've been biking a few years now. I'm the type of customer that if my
husband wasn't around I'd bring my bike in to get flats fixed. I spend a
ton of money on bikes, having one for my weekly short mountain climb with
the moms, a tandem for my weekly long mountain climb with my husband, one
with fenders and baskets for shopping and other errands, and an old hybrid I
should get rid of but only use for those too wet for skinny tire days when I
want to go climb hills anyway. My husband and daughter also have bikes,
plural. I do all my bike shopping at local bike shops, and have even been
into your store a few times. I wouldn't have known what a cassette is. I
believe that is the jargon the other posters are alluding to. (And by the
way, lately, as the bike business has slowed, I seldom run into a jargon
spewing sales guy anymore.)
|
| | | | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 19:20:04
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
>> Just as someone in a newsgroup might feel when an experienced old hand
>> comes down on them with sarcastic reks that could have been couched
>> more politely. One wonders if the desire of the experienced old hand is
>> not to help the person understand the err of his or her ways, but rather
>> to rid them from the newsgroup through such embarrassment. For good or
>> bad, it seems to be a tactic that rarely works in a newsgroup.
>
> I've been biking a few years now. I'm the type of customer that if my
> husband wasn't around I'd bring my bike in to get flats fixed. I spend a
> ton of money on bikes, having one for my weekly short mountain climb with
> the moms, a tandem for my weekly long mountain climb with my husband, one
> with fenders and baskets for shopping and other errands, and an old hybrid
> I should get rid of but only use for those too wet for skinny tire days
> when I want to go climb hills anyway. My husband and daughter also have
> bikes, plural. I do all my bike shopping at local bike shops, and have
> even been into your store a few times. I wouldn't have known what a
> cassette is. I believe that is the jargon the other posters are alluding
> to. (And by the way, lately, as the bike business has slowed, I seldom
> run into a jargon spewing sales guy anymore.)
Kathy: Had you had even the slightest quizzical look on your face when
somebody said "cassette", any of us in the shop would have deftly switched
gears, so to speak, and explained that we're talking about the cogs in the
rear. There would have been no assumption whatsoever that somebody is a
lesser person because they don't know we call the rear gears a "cassette"
(when that's what they actually are). Most of us probably call them the
"rear cogs" anyway. My wife calls it the "cassette" because she knows that's
what it's called when we sell one, to differentiate it from a freewheel.
But no matter how confused someone might have been over the jargon involved,
that was never the unintentionally funny part. That came from the customer
believing we were talking about something entirely unrelated. As I explained
in a different reply, it would be like you taking your car in for a repair,
and they told you that you needed a new antenna, and your reply was that you
don't use an antenna anymore, you had cable installed years ago.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 09:41:19
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
<snip >
> Many people revel in assimilating as much bike-jargon as possible to
> show they are part of the in group. I notice it while riding, where a
> newbie seems to say to himself, now's my chance and shouts "on your
> left", as if it made any difference on an empty road.
>
> Jobst Brandt
I take your point, but please don't discourage newbies from alerting people
to their presence. Many times, I have been near one while riding and they
tend to---well, let's just say they don't keep a straight line while riding.
If a newbie comes up beside me and yells "on your left", it tells me he is
trying to be conscientious and not bang into anybody.
Pat in TX
|
| |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 22:17:34
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:Bzvzh.17380$ji1.15484@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for a
> flat tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling her
> he's had some problems with our shop, specifically that we had previously
> recommended his chain be replaced because it was worn. She explained to
> him that we recommend replacing chains when worn because if you let them
> go on too long, they wear out your cassette.
>
> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes anymore,
> just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he planned to ride
> the same chain until it broke.
>
> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so we try
> to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up in this
> case)
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
>
At least he won't be RWI (riding while iPod'ing).
|
| |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 19:08:38
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Customer had a problem with our service
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Just heard about this one from my wife. We had a customer come in for
> a flat tire, which she had someone take care of. He was then telling
> her he's had some problems with our shop, specifically that we had
> previously recommended his chain be replaced because it was worn. She
> explained to him that we recommend replacing chains when worn because
> if you let them go on too long, they wear out your cassette.
>
> He replied that wasn't a problem because he doesn't use cassettes
> anymore, just CDs. And he was serious. He went on to say that he
> planned to ride the same chain until it broke.
>
> (This particular customer is playing with less than a full deck, so
> we try to be nice, but it was very difficult to keep from cracking up
> in this case)
One cog short of a cluster? :-P
|
|
