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Main
Date: 10 Oct 2007 19:08:41
From: Duke of Hazard
Subject: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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I like the minamilist approach ( coaster brakes , single gear ) and
price < $200, and weight 29 lbs. Some questions:
1) Is it small enough to take as carry-on luggage in airplane, or must
I put it in a suitcase and check it in?
2) Any other folding bikes I should consider in this price range <
$250 ?
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 18:54:54
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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On Oct 16, 8:16 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1192505246.809753.226...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Jym Dyer <j...@econet.org> wrote:
>
> > > Dahon pays relatively well for China.
>
> > =v= This is kind of the all-purpose off-shoring excuse.
> > 10-15% above a poor average doesn't sound so hot to me.
> > <_Jym_>
>
> So they should . . . leave? And take the job back to the USA?
>
> You know, anyone who thinks that offshoring hasn't been a great benefit
> to actual people in China might want to take note of the fact that China
> has about 3 times the GDP of India.
>
Don't go messing up peoples "thinking" with facts, Ryan!
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 20:27:26
From: Jym Dyer
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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> Dahon pays relatively well for China.
=v= This is kind of the all-purpose off-shoring excuse.
10-15% above a poor average doesn't sound so hot to me.
<_Jym_ >
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Date: 17 Oct 2007 01:16:31
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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In article <1192505246.809753.226620@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
Jym Dyer <jym@econet.org > wrote:
> > Dahon pays relatively well for China.
>
> =v= This is kind of the all-purpose off-shoring excuse.
> 10-15% above a poor average doesn't sound so hot to me.
> <_Jym_>
So they should . . . leave? And take the job back to the USA?
You know, anyone who thinks that offshoring hasn't been a great benefit
to actual people in China might want to take note of the fact that China
has about 3 times the GDP of India.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 18:50:11
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <1192505246.809753.226620@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Jym Dyer <jym@econet.org> wrote:
>
>>> Dahon pays relatively well for China.
>> =v= This is kind of the all-purpose off-shoring excuse.
>> 10-15% above a poor average doesn't sound so hot to me.
>> <_Jym_>
>
> So they should . . . leave? And take the job back to the USA?
>
> You know, anyone who thinks that offshoring hasn't been a great benefit
> to actual people in China might want to take note of the fact that China
> has about 3 times the GDP of India.
The only way to not have a rush to the bottom in terms of manufacturing
is to legislate high tariffs for imported merchandise so that it is
uneconomical to manufacture outside the U.S.. When one company runs off
to China, all the competitors must follow or go out of business. You're
left with the low volume, boutique manufacturers that cannot fill the
demand for the products. The savings of manufacturing frames and
building complete bicycles in the U.S. versus China is about $45 per
bicycle when shipping costs are included in the equation.
Prior to building in China, Dahon had their own factory in Taiwan, they
never manufactured in the U.S..
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Date: 17 Oct 2007 10:15:53
From: Don Wiss
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:50:11 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
>Prior to building in China, Dahon had their own factory in Taiwan, they
>never manufactured in the U.S..
And remember the family that owns Dahon is named Hon, which sounds Chinese
to me.
Don <www.donwiss.com/joyrides > (e-mail link at page bottom).
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Date: 12 Oct 2007 12:02:12
From: jbollyn@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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On Oct 11, 3:26 pm, "Pat" <P...@starrynight.com > wrote:
> "cmcanulty"
>
> > I found a suitcase just large enough but took a long search found it
> > in a thrift shop, trouble is you need a real tight fit to meet the 62"
> > girth requirement. Any bikes that fold really small out there? my case
> > is soft so i lined it with heavy cardboard or bike would rip it,
> > weighs 48lbs loaded just makes the 50lb max, also don't say it's a
> > bike or extra charge say sports equipment
>
> My Bike Friday folds into its own suitcase. I took it to Ireland without a
> surcharge.
>
> Pat in TX
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, but I think BF is more than Duke wants to pay - J.
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Date: 12 Oct 2007 14:35:07
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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>>
>> My Bike Friday folds into its own suitcase. I took it to Ireland without
>> a
>> surcharge.
>>
>> Pat in TX
>
> Yes, but I think BF is more than Duke wants to pay - J.
It's more than I wanted to pay, too! But, it is extremely well-built and
will last a lifetime. OTOH, they make a new model called the Tikit which is
not custom made and thus is cheaper.
Pat in TX
>
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Date: 12 Oct 2007 19:27:54
From: Jay
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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"Pat" <Pat@starrynight.com > wrote in message
news:5na0jgFh7ccsU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>>>
>>> My Bike Friday folds into its own suitcase. I took it to Ireland without
>>> a
>>> surcharge.
>>>
>>> Pat in TX
>>
>> Yes, but I think BF is more than Duke wants to pay - J.
>
> It's more than I wanted to pay, too! But, it is extremely well-built and
> will last a lifetime. OTOH, they make a new model called the Tikit which
> is not custom made and thus is cheaper.
>
> Pat in TX
>>
Pat,
You and I both like, and own, Bike Friday bikes.
But it is very hard for US companies (like BF) to compete with Chinese slave
labor, which is Dahon.
(If I had no conscience, it would be SO much easier.)
Jay
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 02:10:49
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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Jay wrote:
> But it is very hard for US companies (like BF) to compete with Chinese slave
> labor, which is Dahon.
>
> (If I had no conscience, it would be SO much easier.)
Dahon pays relatively well for China. Their factory isn't in the
interior where they can get away with paying shoe-company wages. I don't
know about Trek, Specialized, and all the other bicycle manufacturers
that have moved most of their production to China.
See
"http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/business/worldbusiness/29labor.html?pagewanted=all"
The difference in labor cost between bikefriday and Dahon accounts for
only a small portion of the difference in price. The bigger factor is
that Dahon manufactures standard products in large quantities, while
Bike Friday manufactures custom products in very small quantities.
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 10:03:14
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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Jay Bollyn wrote:
> "Pat" <Pat@starrynight.com> wrote in message
> news:5na0jgFh7ccsU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> My Bike Friday folds into its own suitcase. I took it to Ireland without
>>>> a
>>>> surcharge.
>>>>
>>>> Pat in TX
>>> Yes, but I think BF is more than Duke wants to pay - J.
>> It's more than I wanted to pay, too! But, it is extremely well-built and
>> will last a lifetime. OTOH, they make a new model called the Tikit which
>> is not custom made and thus is cheaper.
>>
>> Pat in TX
> Pat,
>
> You and I both like, and own, Bike Friday bikes.
>
> But it is very hard for US companies (like BF) to compete with Chinese slave
> labor, which is Dahon.
>
> (If I had no conscience, it would be SO much easier.)
butbutbut, I thought you were employed by The Great City of Chicago!
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 17:45:52
From: Jay
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:fetb3j$97j$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Jay Bollyn wrote:
>> "Pat" <Pat@starrynight.com> wrote in message
>> news:5na0jgFh7ccsU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> My Bike Friday folds into its own suitcase. I took it to Ireland
>>>>> without a
>>>>> surcharge.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pat in TX
>>>> Yes, but I think BF is more than Duke wants to pay - J.
>>> It's more than I wanted to pay, too! But, it is extremely well-built and
>>> will last a lifetime. OTOH, they make a new model called the Tikit which
>>> is not custom made and thus is cheaper.
>>>
>>> Pat in TX
>> Pat,
>>
>> You and I both like, and own, Bike Friday bikes.
>>
>> But it is very hard for US companies (like BF) to compete with Chinese
>> slave labor, which is Dahon.
>>
>> (If I had no conscience, it would be SO much easier.)
>
> butbutbut, I thought you were employed by The Great City of Chicago!
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
No, I am employed by the great state of IL, as a civil servant.
Chicago is, IMHO, run by the 'Irish mafia'.
Jay
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Date: 17 Oct 2007 21:48:15
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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Jay Bollyn wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fetb3j$97j$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Jay Bollyn wrote:
>>> "Pat" <Pat@starrynight.com> wrote in message
>>> news:5na0jgFh7ccsU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> My Bike Friday folds into its own suitcase. I took it to Ireland
>>>>>> without a
>>>>>> surcharge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pat in TX
>>>>> Yes, but I think BF is more than Duke wants to pay - J.
>>>> It's more than I wanted to pay, too! But, it is extremely well-built and
>>>> will last a lifetime. OTOH, they make a new model called the Tikit which
>>>> is not custom made and thus is cheaper.
>>>>
>>>> Pat in TX
>>> Pat,
>>>
>>> You and I both like, and own, Bike Friday bikes.
>>>
>>> But it is very hard for US companies (like BF) to compete with Chinese
>>> slave labor, which is Dahon.
>>>
>>> (If I had no conscience, it would be SO much easier.)
>> butbutbut, I thought you were employed by The Great City of Chicago!
>
> No, I am employed by the great state of IL, as a civil servant.
Do you work at Helmut Jahn's monstrosity at Clark & Lake?
> Chicago is, IMHO, run by the 'Irish mafia'.
The most sullen and unhelpful civil servants I have ever dealt with were
part of the City of Chicago bureaucracy. Dial 311 to get the run-around. :(
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
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Date: 11 Oct 2007 10:17:15
From:
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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>2) Any other folding bikes I should consider in this price range <
>$250 ?
The Dahon Curve has my attention tho its a bit more
than your price range
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Date: 11 Oct 2007 14:51:32
From: cmcanulty
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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I found a suitcase just large enough but took a long search found it
in a thrift shop, trouble is you need a real tight fit to meet the 62"
girth requirement. Any bikes that fold really small out there? my case
is soft so i lined it with heavy cardboard or bike would rip it,
weighs 48lbs loaded just makes the 50lb max, also don't say it's a
bike or extra charge say sports equipment
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 02:00:40
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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cmcanulty wrote:
> I found a suitcase just large enough but took a long search found it
> in a thrift shop, trouble is you need a real tight fit to meet the 62"
> girth requirement. Any bikes that fold really small out there? my case
> is soft so i lined it with heavy cardboard or bike would rip it,
> weighs 48lbs loaded just makes the 50lb max, also don't say it's a
> bike or extra charge say sports equipment
>
There are some suitcases that are technically a bit too large, but not
to the point where it's likely that they'd be measured. While I've often
seen the weighing of luggage lately, I've _never_ seen a suitcase
measured for conformance to size when it looks like a suitcase.
See "http://welectronics.com/luggage.shtml" and look at Trident 33".
They left out the picture, but you can see it in the bottom left at
"http://gaerlan.com/" who used to sell these as well. I'm pretty sure
that these are the same Trident suitcases.
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Date: 11 Oct 2007 15:26:11
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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"cmcanulty"
> I found a suitcase just large enough but took a long search found it
> in a thrift shop, trouble is you need a real tight fit to meet the 62"
> girth requirement. Any bikes that fold really small out there? my case
> is soft so i lined it with heavy cardboard or bike would rip it,
> weighs 48lbs loaded just makes the 50lb max, also don't say it's a
> bike or extra charge say sports equipment
My Bike Friday folds into its own suitcase. I took it to Ireland without a
surcharge.
Pat in TX
>
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Date: 22 Oct 2007 19:20:26
From: Jym Dyer
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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> Jym,
>
> You haven't ridden the Dahon Glide. It is fun to ride. I have
> made it my every day bike. Sometime I'll let you try it.
=v= I've tried the Glide, but there's something about the feel
of aluminum. I *almost* liked the 2004 Helios XL, but still,
aluminum. I don't try to be picky, and like I wrote, I find
the Dahon story to be inspiring, but I've never liked the ride.
=v= They just introduced a snazzy new magnesium alloy bike that
I'd like to try out, though ...
> Are you still around here? I do sometimes make the Brooklyn
> Critical Mass.
=v= Mostly in California, but I bounce around. Alas, for the
past year I've only been in town for the Manhattan CM, which
is a little bit less fun. :-\
<_Jym_ >
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Date: 22 Oct 2007 23:20:00
From: Don Wiss
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:20:26 -0700, Jym Dyer <jym@econet.org > wrote:
>=v= Mostly in California, but I bounce around. Alas, for the
>past year I've only been in town for the Manhattan CM, which
>is a little bit less fun. :-\
No kidding. I stopped going a while back. I will go this Friday to take
pictures for my web site. But I'll come from work and I won't have a bike.
Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/ > (e-mail link at page bottoms).
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Date: 10 Oct 2007 22:08:54
From: Duke of Hazard
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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On Oct 10, 11:18 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Duke of Hazard wrote:
> > I like the minamilist approach ( coaster brakes , single gear ) and
> > price < $200, and weight 29 lbs. Some questions:
>
> > 1) Is it small enough to take as carry-on luggage in airplane, or must
> > I put it in a suitcase and check it in?
>
> Checked. And you're probably going to pay the airline surcharge too,
> unless you can find a conforming suitcase big enough for it. Even the
> Brompton is an impossible fit in all but a very few extremely large and
> proper dimension suitcases.
That's a bummer, how about the Dahon D7 ? It is $320 instead of $180
for the boardwalk. Since I have hills in my commute, I think I will
need the 7 gears, no? I am also reading about Downtube, but I like the
Dahon website better , it seems like a better product?
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 19:44:50
From: Jym Dyer
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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>> Prior to building in China, Dahon had their own factory
>> in Taiwan, they never manufactured in the U.S..
> And remember the family that owns Dahon is named Hon,
> which sounds Chinese to me.
=v= Could be Taiwanese, though.
=v= In the 1970s, Dr. David Hon was living and working in
California, working on war planes for Hughes Aircraft, and
had a change of heart. When he was waiting in one of those
long energy crisis-era lines to buy gas, he decided to put
his talents towards the betterment of humanity, and to deal
with that very problem. His solution was a folding bike.
=v= I'd like to say, after all that, that it was a *good*
folding bike, but in fact it was quite heavy and clunky and
a horrible ride. He moved to Taiwan to have them built,
and the low quality production made it even worse, since
the frame hinges didn't line up or close snugly.
=v= They've improved quite a bit since then, but they've never
come up with something I'd like to ride every day. That's what
makes a Bike Friday or Swift Folder worth a the extra expense:
everyday-quality ride, made stateside, no labor abuses and much
kinder to the environment. Certainly Dr. Hon's heart is in the
right place, but I just don't like the product.
<_Jym_ >
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Date: 19 Oct 2007 06:27:04
From: Don Wiss
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:44:50 -0700, Jym Dyer <jym@econet.org > wrote:
>=v= They've improved quite a bit since then, but they've never
>come up with something I'd like to ride every day. That's what
>makes a Bike Friday or Swift Folder worth a the extra expense:
>everyday-quality ride, made stateside, no labor abuses and much
>kinder to the environment. Certainly Dr. Hon's heart is in the
>right place, but I just don't like the product.
Jym,
You haven't ridden the Dahon Glide. It is fun to ride. I have made it my
every day bike. Sometime I'll let you try it. Are you still around here? I
do sometimes make the Brooklyn Critical Mass.
Don <www.donwiss.com/joyrides > (e-mail link at page bottom).
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Date: 22 Oct 2007 13:30:16
From:
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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>You haven't ridden the Dahon Glide. It is fun to ride. I have made it my
>every day bike
Any thoughts on the Dahon Curve model?
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Date: 19 Oct 2007 09:40:07
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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Don Wiss wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:44:50 -0700, Jym Dyer <jym@econet.org> wrote:
>
>> =v= They've improved quite a bit since then, but they've never
>> come up with something I'd like to ride every day. That's what
>> makes a Bike Friday or Swift Folder worth a the extra expense:
>> everyday-quality ride, made stateside, no labor abuses and much
>> kinder to the environment. Certainly Dr. Hon's heart is in the
>> right place, but I just don't like the product.
>
> Jym,
>
> You haven't ridden the Dahon Glide.
Or the Speed TR.
Dahon has a wide range of folders, some better than others, and some
better and some worse than some of Bike Friday's products. A lot of
people base their opinion of Dahon on the early Dahon folders which were
indeed pretty bad. Kind of like how some people judge Hyundai cars based
on the old Hyundai Excel.
But it's true that Bike Friday's are assembled in the U.S., as well as
having frames made in the U.S., though of course all the components are
imported.
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Date: 17 Oct 2007 14:34:26
From: cmcanulty
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
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Here is a link to an instruction for getting a folder into an airline
sized suitcase (girth max 62") I get my 16" cheapo heavy folder into
a suitcase OK but with the additional work shown on link you can even
get a 20' in a suitcase. Now I'm going to get a nice 20" dahon or
downtube . I am considering the Dahon Speed D7 http://www.dahon.com/us/speedd7.htm
or Vitesse http://www.dahon.com/us/vitessed7.htm or the Downtube
http://www.downtube.com/product530.html Does anyone know which is
better for all around riding? Also does anyone know if the Dahon D7 or
Vitesse has quick release hubs? The specs don't say, thanks
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Date: 10 Oct 2007 21:18:14
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Dahon borderwalk folding bike
|
Duke of Hazard wrote:
> I like the minamilist approach ( coaster brakes , single gear ) and
> price < $200, and weight 29 lbs. Some questions:
>
> 1) Is it small enough to take as carry-on luggage in airplane, or must
> I put it in a suitcase and check it in?
Checked. And you're probably going to pay the airline surcharge too,
unless you can find a conforming suitcase big enough for it. Even the
Brompton is an impossible fit in all but a very few extremely large and
proper dimension suitcases.
> 2) Any other folding bikes I should consider in this price range <
> $250 ?
No, not any more. I bought my Brompton's for $235-245 but the Taiwanese
Bromptons are no longer being manufactured.
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