"Do not feed the dinosaur! Ride a bike!"

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Date: 15 Feb 2007 07:20:17
From: donquijote1954
Subject: "Do not feed the dinosaur! Ride a bike!"

That's the new T-shirt of a series that could change the world. Well,
first you gotta know who the dinosaur is, but I can tell you he's BIG,
STUPID and REFUSES TO EVOLVE. He may look like this...

http://animals.timduru.org/dirlist/dino/Dinosaur-Giganotosaurus_carolinii-I=
llust.jpg

Or he may look like this...

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=3Dhttp://www.ketingshift.com/imag=
es/internationalSUV-7300cxt.gif&imgrefurl=3Dhttp://www.ketingshift.com/2=
004/9/biggest-suv-navistar-international.cfm&h=3D400&w=3D400&sz=3D85&hl=3De=
n&start=3D12&tbnid=3D6E29o9lBJvOpXM:&tbnh=3D124&tbnw=3D124&prev=3D/images%3=
Fq%3Dbig%2Bsuv%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

In any case, you may have decided you had it with the stupid beast,
and you've decided to give a chance to the st and small, just like
a bike. "Do not feed the dinosaur" seems like a good start.

(T-shirt is at bottom)

http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

Or you may decide to buy something like a Jetta TDI, but I don't have
a license to sell VW products. :(

"So you get all the attributes of a commercial truck, but you don't
need a commercial driver's license to drive it.

The legendary International =A9 DT 466 diesel engine provides up to 6
tons of hauling power. The air-ride cab and seats provide an
exceptionally smooth ride. And a spacious and well-appointed interior
ensures automotive-like comfort and convenience. The result of more
than a century of leadership in the truck ket, the International
7300 CXT delivers performance. In a big way"

Update to Post Aug 11, 2005
When I initially posted about the biggest suv I owned a Yukon Denali.
After 5 months my wife and I couldn't stand it any longer and decided
to replace it. We ended up bying a diesel powered vehicle but not the
International CXT. Instead we purchased a 2005 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
powered by a 1.9 liter TDI [turbo diesel]. We love it. Going from 13
mpg in the city to 36 mpg in the city is amazing and Shannon can
actually park it. We do miss some of the room we had in the Yukon but
it's totally worth it and I know Shannon would agree. So I'm sorry to
disappoint those of you that thought I love gas guzzling oversized
bloated suvs, I'm really a penny-pincher at heart."

Date: 02 Mar 2007 23:40:05
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <45DF8EFC.4E5BD36D@hovnanian.com >,
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com > writes:

>> > Who said anything about speeding? If a cyclist impedes more than 5
>> > vehicles, that's a violation.
>>
>> Not necessarily. Are you sure there isn't a proviso
>> in that legislation that says the slow moving vehicle
>> may proceed until the first opportunity to /safely/
>> allow following traffic to overtake, if it's built-up
>> to five or more following vehicles?
>
> There's the link right below. I saw no such proviso, but you are welcome
> to search for it.

Okay, I did follow your link:

>> > http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.427

and it says:

"On a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe because of
traffic in the opposite direction or other conditions, a
slow moving vehicle, behind which five or more vehicles are
formed in a line, shall turn off the roadway wherever
sufficient area for a safe turn-out exists, in order to
permit the vehicles following to proceed. As used in this
section a slow moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at
a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at
the particular time and place."

Note the part about "sufficient area for a safe turn-out."

>> Sometimes self-interested car drivers try to
>> disguise themselves as cyclists.
>> The results of their thrashings and wailings and
>> nashing of teeth are amusing. Like now.
>
> And sometimes cyclists don't want to get killed due to the road rage
> that those seeking to make political statements incite.

"Incite", eh? As in: "She was just /asking/ for it?"

> If you want to be taken seriously, you are going to have to quit acting
> like children.

How so? Do you mean by exercising one's rights to use
the road despite not being motorized? If so, how is
that childish?

> Nobody is going to invest millions of dollars into
> infastructure to coddle law breakers (other than prisons that is).

FWIW I, unlike certain autoholics, don't want or need millions
of dollars of infrastructure or political statements. The
infrastructure and the politics are already in place for us
cyclists. All we need is for some self-interested, selfish
people to stop trying to impede our due access to them.

Tell ya what -- I'll leave you to your own pitard.

But I sure hope you don't represent too many drivers.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 24 Feb 2007 08:35:10
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: "I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain"

Well, it's not cocaine but another kind of addiction that goes through
the brain of the "voracious consumers" (SUVs, motorboats...)

'Oil on the Brain: Adventures from the Pump to the Pipeline'

'Lisa gonelli's illuminating, entertaining stories of "people who
oversee oil's long journey to our cars." Starting at her neighborhood
filling station, she scurries up the pump like Alice down the rabbit
hole, to discover and chronicle the delivery trucks, refineries,
drilling rigs, the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, the oil ket and,
most tellingly, the voracious consumers. Simply put, oil rules. It is
indispensable to our comfortable lifestyles and we will go to war over
access to it.

Running through the book, subterranean but ever present, is our
preposterous relationship to oil, an institutionalized addiction that
discourages strategic change. We feed the rat [dinosaur] instead of
setting a trap for it.

Today's petro-states are hazards in themselves: gonelli's portraits
of Venezuela, Chad, Iran and Nigeria are cases in point. "Lurking
within [those countries] were instability, poverty, nationalism, and
deep anti-American feelings. The 2001 National Energy Policy, written
after secret consultations between Vice President Dick Cheney and oil
executives, concluded as much. ... Many people interpret it as a
virtual declaration of war." Weapons of mass destruction don't have to
be bombs; oil fits the bill quite nicely.'

http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/read.php?itemid=5209

"She realizes that the long term future of energy is not with oil. She
says: 'The United States could put its considerable money and
political will into creating new kinds of vehicles and fuels, while
creating incentives to use fossil fuels more efficiently.'
Unfortunately, when I listen to our politicians, I don't hear anything
about such things. Perhaps lip service as in the state of the union
message, but no action."

http://www.amazon.com/Oil-Brain-Adventures-Pump-Pipeline/dp/0385511450

and I leave you with the lyrics here (you may substitute appropriately
oil for cocaine)...

Song: Cocaine in My Brain Lyrics

Hey Jim, Jim, just a minute y'all
I want to ask you somethin'
I want you to spell somethin' for me Jim
Can you do that? Sure John
But I want you to spell for me New York
John, why you ask me to do that?
I just want you to spell New York, Jim
Well alright, I'm gonna go ahead man

N-E-W Y-O-R-K, that's New York man
No Jim, you've made a mistake, Jim
I'm gonna teach you the right way
And the proper way to spell New York
Well, go ahead, John

A knife, a fork, a bottle and a cork
That's the way we spell New York, Jim - yeah
You see I'm a dynamite
So all you got to do is hold me tight
Because I'm out a sight, you know
'Cause I'm a dynamite

But everytime I walk in the rain
Man, o man, I feel a pain, I feel a burning pain
Keep on burning in my bloody brain

I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain
I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain
I want you to dig me soul brother and soul sister
I want you hold me tight because I'm a dynamite - yeah
I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain

No matter where I treat my guest
You see they always like my kitchen best
'Cause I've cocaine runnin' around my brain
cocaine runnin' around my brain, yea

Hey Jim, Jim? Where is Jim, man?
Jim, I want you to tell me somethin'
I want you to spell for me New York, Jim
Come on, Jim, I want you to spell New York

A knife, a fork, a bottle and a cork
That's the way we spell New York
Right on, out of sight man, right on, ooh
Right on, yeah, right on

Hey Jim, Jim, just a minute y'all
I want to ask you somethin'
I want you to spell somethin' for me, Jim
Can you do that? Sure John
But I want you to spell for me New York
John, why you ask me to do that?
I just want you to spell New York, Jim
Well alright, I'm gonna go ahead man

N-E-W Y-O-R-K, that's New York, man
No Jim, you've made a mistake, Jim
I'm gonna teach you the right way
And the proper way to spell New York
Well, go ahead, John

A knife, a fork, a bottle and a cork
That's the way we spell New York, Jim - yeah
You see, I'm a dynamite
So all you got to do is hold me tight
Because I'm out a sight, you know
'Cause I'm a dynamite

But everytime I walk in the rain
Man, o man, I feel a pain, I feel a burning pain
Keep on burning in my bloody brain

I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain
I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain
I want you to dig me soul brother and soul sister
I want you hold me tight because I'm a dynamite - yeah
I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain

No matter where I treat my guest
You see they always like my kitchen best
'Cause I've cocaine runnin' around my brain
cocaine runnin' around my brain, yea

Hey Jim, Jim? Where is Jim, man?
Jim, I want you to tell me somethin'
I want you to spell for me New York, Jim
Come on, Jim, I want you spell New York

A knife, a fork, a bottle and a cork
That's the way we spell New York
Right on, out of sight man, right on, ooh
Right on, yeah, right on

Man oh man, I'm on the run
I've got to reach the setting sun
'Cause I've got cocaine
A whole lot, whole lot of cocaine, man
Runnin' around my brain, runnin' around my brain
cocaine, cocaine, runnin' around my brain, yeah

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/mewithoutyou/cocaineinmybrain.htm

Date: 24 Feb 2007 07:51:52
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: a wake up call for the dinosaur

I know we have a problem with the dinosaur. He's so stupid that he
doesn't see the need to change! So perhaps a wake up call could be
that we alert him that the asteroid is coming, or that we don't feed
him --or perhaps that he reads a book like this...

'Worldchanging: A Users Guide for the 21st Century' is a
groundbreaking compendium of the most innovative solutions, ideas and
inventions emerging today for building a sustainable, livable,
prosperous future.

"To build that future, we need a generation of everyday heroes, people
who - whatever their walks of life - have the courage to think in
fresh ways and to act to meet this planetary crisis head-on. This book
belongs in the library of every person who aspires to be part of that
generation."
- Al Gore

http://www.worldchanging.com/book/

I think it could be an action plan for THE REVOLUTION. It talks about
bicycle activism too, so, who knows, the cyclists may be the next
furry little mammals.

Date: 23 Feb 2007 17:03:56
From: Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Tom Keats wrote:
>
> In article <45DD21D2.A807FB29@hovnanian.com>,
> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> writes:
> > nash wrote:
> >>
> >> Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
> >> the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.
> >> <<<<<<<<<<<<
> >>
> >> If they are speeding in the first place you are not officially slowing them
> >> down.
> >
> > Who said anything about speeding? If a cyclist impedes more than 5
> > vehicles, that's a violation.
>
> Not necessarily. Are you sure there isn't a proviso
> in that legislation that says the slow moving vehicle
> may proceed until the first opportunity to /safely/
> allow following traffic to overtake, if it's built-up
> to five or more following vehicles?

There's the link right below. I saw no such proviso, but you are welcome
to search for it.

> > Just as it is for a motor vehicle.
> >
> >> You made that up didn't you?
> >
> > http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.427
> >
> > Note that the law defines a 'slow moving vehicles' as one traveling at a
> > speed less than the normal traffic flow. It says nothing about speed
> > limits.
> >
> >> How about being inept at driving they should "walk only" in the first place.
> >
> > The same goes for inept cyclists. Put the training wheels back on and
> > ride only where mom can watch you.
>
> Sometimes self-interested car drivers try to
> disguise themselves as cyclists.
> The results of their thrashings and wailings and
> nashing of teeth are amusing. Like now.

And sometimes cyclists don't want to get killed due to the road rage
that those seeking to make political statements incite.

If you want to be taken seriously, you are going to have to quit acting
like children. Nobody is going to invest millions of dollars into
infastructure to coddle law breakers (other than prisons that is).

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Software Engineering is like looking for a black cat in a dark room.
Systems Engineering is like looking for a black cat in a dark room
in which there is no cat.
Knowledge Engineering is like looking for a black cat in a dark room
in which there is no cat and somebody yells, "I got it!"

Date: 23 Feb 2007 13:03:30
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: not a fairy tale

On Feb 23, 3:17 pm, "Amy Blankenship"
> > But not knowing that fact about gov't support everyone still knew what it
> > is doing to the environment and resources so they are still to blame you
> > know.
>
> I disagree. We as a society build where people have no choice but to drive
> if we are to survive. And if you talk to officials about what can be done
> to add density in selected areas, you'll find out there are all kinds of
> crazy policies that mean that everyone has to live pretty far apart. For
> instance, in one recent case in our area, a developer wanted to build a
> fairly dense subdivision in an area where there's actually existing sewer
> (for once). Unfortunately, it is at the end of a road that can't handle the
> increased traffic. The developer has no control over that road and the
> county will not upgrade it. So eventually the county will have to build
> sewer out to some other area that got settled since the developer couldn't
> develop at the end of the road the county wouldn't spend a few thousand $ to
> upgrade (not to mention the increased tax base that area would have had to
> make the road feasible).

SUVs and sprawl are connected: it's all about the Big Money. One needs
the other.

And the compact city and bike are connected: they save space --and
money.

Once upon a time, in an enchanted place called Denk...

'Once when I was touring Denk my friend Jenka was visiting Europe
at the same time. I picked her up at the airport and we headed into
Copenhagen. As we were approaching the city, she got excited. "Wow,"
she said, "it's like a constant Critical Mass bike ride!"

As we wait at traffic lights at major intersections we passed through,
the traffic passing by ahead of us generally includes a few cars and a
lot of bicycles and pedestrians. Bike paths are as common as streets,
and most people of all walks of life get around town by bicycle.
Trains and buses full of passengers traverse the city, and you rarely
have to wait long for the next one. Each neighborhood has a
commercial center with shops, cafes, public spaces and streets off-
limits to cars altogether. Most people live bicycling distance from
where they work. Like so many European cities, it is a place that
seems to have been designed for people. People like it that way and,
to a huge extent, they keep it that way.'

However a little Danish girl found a place in the real big world, not
a fairy tale...

'My friend Ash came to visit the US from Denk once while I was in
Washington, DC to sing at a protest. It was January a couple years
ago. Her plan was to join me for a week in DC, but first to spend a
week soaking up the sun in Florida. She flew into Tampa. She managed
to make it to the hotel she had found online, checked in, and then
thought she'd go try to find the beach. Like most hotels in the US,
hers was located some miles down a highway outside of the city, in an
area that used to be woods, swamp or farmland. An entirely recent
development, a sort of sprawling cluster of hotels, fast food
restaurants, and big box stores, surrounded by vast parking lots,
connected by four-lane roads and six-lane highways. A sidewalk has
never graced the area, and certainly not a bike path. Ash discovered a
bus stop eventually, on the side of the highway, but no bus ever
crossed it's path. Welcome to the real USA.

Ash had never seen or imagined such a place. An entirely alienating
environment where everybody gets around by car, and there is not a
pedestrian to be seen unless it's someone walking from their car to
the mall. Where walking is actually somewhat dangerous and certainly
not pleasant, there on the shoulder of the four-lane road with the
trucks and SUV's whizzing past. I had warned Ash that there would be
no way to get around the area without renting a car, and that this was
really the only way to get around most of the country, but this idea
had seemed just too preposterous to be believed, and she didn't rent
one.'

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Feb07/Rovics06.htm

Date: 23 Feb 2007 12:14:50
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

On Feb 23, 2:45 pm, "nash" <zwepytzkehil...@jetable.net > wrote:
> so now the gas guzzlers are the heroes?
> Oil is not sold by the gallon by the way only gas.
>
> I guess we should give the drivers a thumbs up when they get close and
> intimate with us on the road.
>
> But not knowing that fact about gov't support everyone still knew what it is
> doing to the environment and resources so they are still to blame you know.
> I know that is why I am a life long cyclist.
> Things just seem to be getting worse.
>
> Zen

Yep, they are the heroes judging by the bumper stickers on their gas-
guzzling SUVs: "We support our troops" and "God bless America"...

The not-so-prosperous mostly supply the troops and a few cyclists who
dare to ride out there. David doesn't have a chance nowadays. You
know, Goliath got big bucks.

Date: 23 Feb 2007 11:13:35
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

On Feb 23, 12:54 pm, Wayne Pein <w...@nc.rr.com > wrote:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>
> >>>It is a matter of historical record that bicycling groups were the first
> >>>to push the Good Roads Movement.
>
> >>It's ALSO a matter of historical record that they basically failed.
>
> > No they didn't. What happened was, since bicycles and automobiles
> > were more-or-less contemporary with each other, drivers usurped the
> > developing Good Roads Movement to their advantage. So the Good
> > Roads Movement was originally initiated and kick-started by
> > bicyclists. But the car drivers later stole it.
>
> Of course, a reason bicyclists "failed" is that motorists were able to
> pay for roads due to the taxation of gas. Thank you motorists, even if
> you tried to usurp bicyclists' initial efforts as your own.
>
> Wayne

Thank you, American people, for subsidizing gas so the SUVs can
prosper and multiply...

"gas has been so crucial to our economy in the governments eyes that
they have subsidized a large portion of oil production, through
programs, tax-exemptions, and the hiding of pollution costs through
pollution permits. They have through intervention put off an
inevitable end-we will run out of gas sometime, if we continue forcing
prices down on a scarce product. In fact, government has actually
contributed to the overconsumption of oil. When government subsidizes
something (meaning they pay for a portion of it so that the consumers
don't have to) they effectively raise the demand for a product far
beyond where it naturally should be. They make it cheaper for the
companies to produce it and thus cheaper for consumers. This process
distorts ket balance, because it hides costs, and creates what is
known as a moral hazard. If companies had to pay all the costs out of
their own pockets, they would produce less, and with a smaller output,
the cost would rise, and consumers would demand less and slowly ween
themselves off of this product and substitute another for it. They
would find communal travel, or alternate means of energy, things that
are both economically efficient and in the long run even better for
the environment. But because the government has absorbed the costs of
production, they have encouraged overconsumption of this good to the
extent that any miscalculation in their plan will result in the prices
skyrocketing towards the price equilibrium where oil naturally should
be, which is near 5 dollars per gallon or more. It is this type of
economic incentive that spurs innovation and gaurds scarce resources
from overconsumption.

The best solution I can think of now is to let the prices of gas..."

http://www.collegeliberty.com/?p=14

Date: 23 Feb 2007 19:45:31
From: nash
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

so now the gas guzzlers are the heroes?
Oil is not sold by the gallon by the way only gas.

I guess we should give the drivers a thumbs up when they get close and
intimate with us on the road.

But not knowing that fact about gov't support everyone still knew what it is
doing to the environment and resources so they are still to blame you know.
I know that is why I am a life long cyclist.
Things just seem to be getting worse.

Zen

Date: 23 Feb 2007 14:17:25
From: Amy Blankenship
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net > wrote in message
news:vvHDh.1121560$5R2.856160@pd7urf3no...
> so now the gas guzzlers are the heroes?
> Oil is not sold by the gallon by the way only gas.
>
> I guess we should give the drivers a thumbs up when they get close and
> intimate with us on the road.
>
> But not knowing that fact about gov't support everyone still knew what it
> is doing to the environment and resources so they are still to blame you
> know.

I disagree. We as a society build where people have no choice but to drive
if we are to survive. And if you talk to officials about what can be done
to add density in selected areas, you'll find out there are all kinds of
crazy policies that mean that everyone has to live pretty far apart. For
instance, in one recent case in our area, a developer wanted to build a
fairly dense subdivision in an area where there's actually existing sewer
(for once). Unfortunately, it is at the end of a road that can't handle the
increased traffic. The developer has no control over that road and the
county will not upgrade it. So eventually the county will have to build
sewer out to some other area that got settled since the developer couldn't
develop at the end of the road the county wouldn't spend a few thousand $ to
upgrade (not to mention the increased tax base that area would have had to
make the road feasible).

Anyway, the upshot is that rather than having enough people you could
support a corner store, etc. and people could walk or bike to useful
destinations, that place will likely develop at a rate of one house per
acre, which is pretty much the worst density from an environmental
standpoint and certainly doesn't lend itself to transit, pedestrian traffic,
or bike traffic.

Love this town.

But the fact is that the average person doesn't realize that these things
are going on behind the scenes or what they could possibly do to affect the
mystery world of how these things get decided. Most people seem to think
that anyone who points out these kinds of problems are somehow the cause of
them, and that if we all pretend not to notice they'll go away.

-Amy

Date: 23 Feb 2007 07:14:06
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

On Feb 22, 5:42 pm, "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net >
wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1172173204.813377.96970@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 21, 8:35 pm, Tim McNaa <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > In article <hO5Dh.4758$tD2.2...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> > > "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his Fury he
> drove
> > > > them out."
>
> > > God is also obviously an advocate of car pooling.
>
> > For sure, he would have taken all his disciples in two vans for long
> > distance touring. Then the bikes for local preaching. Something like
> > the Mormons, you know.
>
> Had they invented white shirts back then?

No, there was no iron back then.

Date: 23 Feb 2007 07:11:15
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

On Feb 22, 5:06 pm, Wayne Pein <w...@nc.rr.com > wrote:
> Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
> > In article <45dddb31$0$16654$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
> > Wayne Pein <w...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >>We don't need to be kicked off OUR ancestral roads onto crummy Bike
> >>Reservations for the convenience of motorists at our expense.
>
> > You don't have any ancestral roads. The ancestral roads belong to
> > cattle and horses and their drivers and riders.
>
> Ooops. My bad. Let me rephrase.
>
> We shouldn't be kicked off our ancestral PAVED roads onto crummy Bike
> Reservations for the convenience of motorists at our expense.
>
> It is a matter of historical record that bicycling groups were the first
> to push the Good Roads Movement.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Roads_Movement
>
> Wayne

"I often hear now-a-days, the automobile instigated good roads; that
the automobile is the parent of good roads. Well, the truth is, the
bicycle is the father of the good roads movement in this country."
"The League fought for the privilege of building bicycle paths along
the side of public highways." "The League fought for equal privileges
with horse-drawn vehicles. All these battles were won and the
bicyclist was accorded equal rights with other users of highways and
streets."

VERY, VERY interesting. So the cyclists lead the way but now got no
right of way. Goliath beat David, and David is hiding under the bed. I
hope someday before the End of Times, everything goes back to normal.
Some say the Devil rules the world...

http://earthhopenetwork.net/bush%20art/Satan_George_pitch_fork.jpg

Date: 23 Feb 2007 03:37:14
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <6KKdnSUlOO5m0UPYnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@speakeasy.net >,
russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) writes:

>>It is a matter of historical record that bicycling groups were the first
>>to push the Good Roads Movement.
>
> It's ALSO a matter of historical record that they basically failed.

No they didn't. What happened was, since bicycles and automobiles
were more-or-less contemporary with each other, drivers usurped the
developing Good Roads Movement to their advantage. So the Good
Roads Movement was originally initiated and kick-started by
bicyclists. But the car drivers later stole it. At any rate, it
was priily localized to a few urban centres, such as Chicago.
Until post WWII most roads were still hardpack dirt, which was
kinder to horse's hooves.

> And of course many paved roads pre-date the bicycle as well.

In North America, they pre-date the automobile as well.
But in places like New Amsterdam, they did facilitate
pushing barrowfuls of commodities to the street kets.
In the city, streets exist to allow goods movement, and
to facilitate workers getting to their places of employment
by whatever means.

What really got roads paved in a hurry in North America was
the Cold War, and the perceived need to head for the hills
when the Tupolev bombers were coming. Then the H-bomb and
Sputnik happened, and we realized there was nowhere to go
anyways.

The transportation model we have now is the resultant tumor
of that old, pre-1956, obsolete outlook, fraught as it is
with the desire to move out of the city, and build fall-out
shelters, and stockpile cans of beans and rolls of toilet paper,
and have a car in order to survive mouse-fart A-bomb attacks
from overflying, prop-driven, Ruskie bomber planes.

What's really interesting is that so many people from that
era (I'm one) still think in those terms. A megaton H-bomb
is the same as a kiloton A-bomb to them. And a good ol'
motor vehicle will save them, like the SUV that starred in
Dante's Peak and drove over molten lava and through a boiling
lake, etc. Heh. Stoopido torpedoes, those who bought into that.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 23 Feb 2007 12:54:41
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Tom Keats wrote:
>
>
>>>It is a matter of historical record that bicycling groups were the first
>>>to push the Good Roads Movement.
>>
>>It's ALSO a matter of historical record that they basically failed.
>
>
> No they didn't. What happened was, since bicycles and automobiles
> were more-or-less contemporary with each other, drivers usurped the
> developing Good Roads Movement to their advantage. So the Good
> Roads Movement was originally initiated and kick-started by
> bicyclists. But the car drivers later stole it.

Of course, a reason bicyclists "failed" is that motorists were able to
pay for roads due to the taxation of gas. Thank you motorists, even if
you tried to usurp bicyclists' initial efforts as your own.

Wayne

Date: 22 Feb 2007 12:21:05
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

> >I know this group has been through this hundreds of times, but I'm not
> >sure how realistic it is to expect a publicly funded transportation mode
> >to profit. Roads aren't exactly cheap either. And just imagine how
> >many billions must be wasted on the small stuff, like municipal parking
> >lots.
>
> Odd.. at one point the trolleys were profitable. Then an option was given to
> the public that was more desirable.. That's when trolleys lost out.
>
> Here, the parking is just about all paid, and highly profitable for those
> selling the space. The only municipally owned stuff around here is at the
> court house, and there are spaces set aside for things like jury parking.
> (Show your jury duty letter to get in) - and so on. Everything else is a
> for-profit operation.

>
> Can you say "screwed up priorities?" -- I thought you could.- Hide quoted text -

That's a nice way to put it. What gets priority is what feeds the
dinosaur the most, not what's better. And the older simpler technology
doesn't simply die out. It's killed.

Bikes were at one point VERY POPULAR, then came the simple but stylish
open car and trolley, which were killed to get people into mass-
production claustrophobic cars and buses. Later they realized they
could further fit people into trucks and charge them an arm and a leg.
The cyclists and fun efficient transportation of any kind are
dismissed. Welcome to the SUV world.

By the way, do you know who killed this one?

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

Date: 22 Feb 2007 20:26:29
From: nash
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1172175665.811228.228450@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>> >I know this group has been through this hundreds of times, but I'm not
>> >sure how realistic it is to expect a publicly funded transportation mode
>> >to profit. Roads aren't exactly cheap either. And just imagine how
>> >many billions must be wasted on the small stuff, like municipal parking
>> >lots.
>>
>> Odd.. at one point the trolleys were profitable. Then an option was
>> given to
>> the public that was more desirable.. That's when trolleys lost out.
>>
>> Here, the parking is just about all paid, and highly profitable for those
>> selling the space. The only municipally owned stuff around here is at
>> the
>> court house, and there are spaces set aside for things like jury parking.
>> (Show your jury duty letter to get in) - and so on. Everything else is a
>> for-profit operation.
>
>>
>> Can you say "screwed up priorities?" -- I thought you could.- Hide quoted
>> text -
>
> That's a nice way to put it. What gets priority is what feeds the
> dinosaur the most, not what's better. And the older simpler technology
> doesn't simply die out. It's killed.
>
> Bikes were at one point VERY POPULAR, then came the simple but stylish
> open car and trolley, which were killed to get people into mass-
> production claustrophobic cars and buses. Later they realized they
> could further fit people into trucks and charge them an arm and a leg.
> The cyclists and fun efficient transportation of any kind are
> dismissed. Welcome to the SUV world.
>
> By the way, do you know who killed this one?
>
> http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

Chevrolet has the Volt. with 4 sources of energy. 150mph.
not dead just dormant
not in production yet sadly. really cool looking car
>

Date: 22 Feb 2007 11:40:06
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

On Feb 21, 8:35 pm, Tim McNaa <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <hO5Dh.4758$tD2.2...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his Fury he drove
> > them out."
>
> God is also obviously an advocate of car pooling.

For sure, he would have taken all his disciples in two vans for long
distance touring. Then the bikes for local preaching. Something like
the Mormons, you know.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 22:42:52
From: George Conklin
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1172173204.813377.96970@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 21, 8:35 pm, Tim McNaa <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > In article <hO5Dh.4758$tD2.2...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> > "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his Fury he
drove
> > > them out."
> >
> > God is also obviously an advocate of car pooling.
>
> For sure, he would have taken all his disciples in two vans for long
> distance touring. Then the bikes for local preaching. Something like
> the Mormons, you know.
>

Had they invented white shirts back then?

Date: 22 Feb 2007 11:36:54
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: MULTIMODAL IS THE WAY TO GO

On Feb 21, 5:03 pm, "nash" <zwepytzkehil...@jetable.net > wrote:
> If you changed it from Emperor rode a donkey to rather the Messiah rode a
> donkey the Messiah definitely had more power.
> He came back from that beating didn't he.
> So cyclists have the power. Use it wisely and peacefully to avoid a
> beating.

The Emperor would have ridden an SUV, but the Messiah would have
ridden a bike.

Now we should narrow it down to a particular brand of bike, and seek
sponsors. ;)

"The Messiah would have ridden a Trek," for example.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 08:03:25
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

On Feb 22, 8:17 am, k Hickey <m...@habcycles.com > wrote:
> tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
> >Furthermore, I submit following ROW rules inculcates more
> >sociable, respectful and understanding interactions between
> >street/road users -- regardless of the types of vehicles
> >they operate, and better than a bunch of legalistic mumbo-jumbo
> >such as Uniform Vehicle Codes and Motor Vehicle Acts.
>
> Well said. It could be further pared down by simply substituting the
> golden rule (do unto others as you'd have them do to you). It really
> doesn't take a whole lot of courtesy to get the whole car/bike
> interaction thing to work well in every circumstance.

I thought the golden rule was another...

"Remember the Golden Rule: Those with the Gold (SUVs) rule"

Date: 22 Feb 2007 07:59:34
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

On Feb 21, 7:53 pm, "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net >
wrote:

> > the entire lane. IMO, drivers who lack the necessary competence to pass
> > a cyclist should lose their licences.
>
> Bicycles just slow down roads and make us invest a whole lot more.

Not if we got bike lanes. Or maybe a gigantic elevated path with
elevators for bikes. Or simply charge a tax gas to the tune of $8 a
gallon. Then cars would become endangered species.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 13:04:32
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

donquijote1954 wrote:

> On Feb 21, 7:53 pm, "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>the entire lane. IMO, drivers who lack the necessary competence to pass
>>>a cyclist should lose their licences.
>>
>> Bicycles just slow down roads and make us invest a whole lot more.
>
>
> Not if we got bike lanes. Or maybe a gigantic elevated path with
> elevators for bikes. Or simply charge a tax gas to the tune of $8 a
> gallon. Then cars would become endangered species.
>

We don't need to be kicked off OUR ancestral roads onto crummy Bike
Reservations for the convenience of motorists at our expense.

And quit whining about cars. They aren't inherently evil.

Wayne

Date: 22 Feb 2007 14:42:18
From: Matthew T. Russotto
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <45dddb31$0$16654$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,
Wayne Pein <wpein@nc.rr.com > wrote:
>donquijote1954 wrote:
>
>> On Feb 21, 7:53 pm, "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>the entire lane. IMO, drivers who lack the necessary competence to pass
>>>>a cyclist should lose their licences.
>>>
>>> Bicycles just slow down roads and make us invest a whole lot more.
>>
>> Not if we got bike lanes. Or maybe a gigantic elevated path with
>> elevators for bikes. Or simply charge a tax gas to the tune of $8 a
>> gallon. Then cars would become endangered species.
>>
>
>We don't need to be kicked off OUR ancestral roads onto crummy Bike
>Reservations for the convenience of motorists at our expense.

You don't have any ancestral roads. The ancestral roads belong to
cattle and horses and their drivers and riders.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 17:06:35
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Matthew T. Russotto wrote:

> In article <45dddb31$0$16654$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> Wayne Pein <wpein@nc.rr.com> wrote:

>>We don't need to be kicked off OUR ancestral roads onto crummy Bike
>>Reservations for the convenience of motorists at our expense.
>
>
> You don't have any ancestral roads. The ancestral roads belong to
> cattle and horses and their drivers and riders.

Ooops. My bad. Let me rephrase.

We shouldn't be kicked off our ancestral PAVED roads onto crummy Bike
Reservations for the convenience of motorists at our expense.

It is a matter of historical record that bicycling groups were the first
to push the Good Roads Movement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Roads_Movement

Wayne

Date: 22 Feb 2007 20:10:03
From: Matthew T. Russotto
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <45de13eb$0$18890$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,
Wayne Pein <wpein@nc.rr.com > wrote:
>Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>
>> In article <45dddb31$0$16654$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> Wayne Pein <wpein@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>>We don't need to be kicked off OUR ancestral roads onto crummy Bike
>>>Reservations for the convenience of motorists at our expense.
>>
>>
>> You don't have any ancestral roads. The ancestral roads belong to
>> cattle and horses and their drivers and riders.
>
>Ooops. My bad. Let me rephrase.
>
>We shouldn't be kicked off our ancestral PAVED roads onto crummy Bike
>Reservations for the convenience of motorists at our expense.

>It is a matter of historical record that bicycling groups were the first
>to push the Good Roads Movement.

It's ALSO a matter of historical record that they basically failed.
And of course many paved roads pre-date the bicycle as well.

--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 07:46:58
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: WE THE PEOPLE

On Feb 21, 3:50 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com > wrote:

>
> Good responses but I take issue with a few things.
>
> I'm not convinced the government can do better at developing
> alternative fuels than the competive ketplace. In fact, investors
> may be holding out in hopes of getting a piece of pie from the
> govenrment instead fo forging investments themselves. Also, I view the
> biggest impediments to mass transit like trains and subways as the
> airline and auto lobby, not the gas lobby. Oh, and our devotion to
> property rights isn't helping either.

The government can do EVERYTHING if not directly, indirectly via the
private ket. The private ket is stupid however, just GREEDY for
the most part, so only the government can keep THE BEAST in check. The
question is WHO keeps the government (that seems to be controlled by
the beast) from doing extravagant projects (Iraq or s) and not the
environment? Well, WE THE PEOPLE. If only we had the right issues (not
gay riage) before the elections...

There are many good ideas sitting out there, but the LOW OIL PRICES
don't make them competitive, and we go back to square one where
nothing is done.

NATURAL CAPITALISM
"The book will find its audience, regardless. It is that important.
The authors are setting out a boldly different framework for
understanding the ecological crisis.... This perspective has something
to offend nearly everyone: Business interests will choke on the
apocalyptic description of the earth in crisis but may be flattered by
the suggestion that they have the means to solve it. Most
environmentalists agree on the vast dimensions of the threat to nature
but may dismiss the authors' can-do optimism as dangerously naive. I
have particular doubts of my own. Nevertheless, Natural Capitalism
poses an intelligent challenge to lazy assumptions on both sides of
the political divide and ought to jump-start a reinvigorated
environmental debate." -William Greider

http://www.natcap.org/

>
> I've spent a lot of time in Europe. I don't think the price of gas is
> preventing them from pollutiong. I think they have population density
> advantages. When a European can afford a big car, they get one, just
> like Americans. That's just my experience, not a scientific study.

So are many Americans too affluent too drive anything but the biggest
behemoths they can lay their hands on? How about taxing gas to
SUBSIDIZE OTHER ALTERNATIVES THAT INCLUDE THE BIKE. Yep, it's not
always high tech, sometimes it's simple, like GOING BACK TO BASICS,
you know. HOW ABOUT LAUNCHING A NATIOWIDE CAMPAIGN TO ENCOURAGE
*SAVING*.

You know the message people get from watching commercials? Yep, YOU
NEED AN SUV, even if you pollute whatever is left. YOU ARE THE KING OF
THE JUNGLE AND... PHUCK (?) THE WORLD.

>
> Regarding the Kyoto protocol and the "worst predator": heck no I
> wouldn't join up for these either since somehow China and India are
> left out. On the whole those countries may be second or third world
> but regions are definitely some of the world's worse polluters, east
> China for example.

Well America uses 25% of resources and pollutes accordingly and it's
the only major power to retire from any Kyoto commitment. We're only
committed to victory in Iraq... (?)

>
> Regarding public works -- FDR proved deficit spending can spur the
> econmy. Various presidents have used that technique again and again.
> Putting someone or something on s wilpsur technology just like
> putting a man on the moon did. BTW, IIIRC, Bush is spending a lot on
> fuel cells and clean coal. Both are good things. We should be allowing
> nuclear power, too.

And BIKES and SAVING too. Any real change must take into account the
individual who can then ride a bike, switch to fluorescent lights,
plant trees, etc, etc.

The rest is BS and balloney.

ECONOMIC APARTHEID?
Is there a solution? Maybe. A massive public works project that did
not expand the deficit would help; something like a massive clean
energy program or nationwide high-speed rail network financed by new
taxes on pollution and fossil fuels. A more progressive tax system
would help as well. Both seem inconceivable since the Bush
administration wants to spend public works dollars on s not earth,
and Congress that has just enacted tax breaks that exacerbate the
wealth gap.

http://www.eugenelinden.com/news280.html

>
> Just my opinion. Not wanting to start a fight.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No fight. We follow here Jesus on the donkey --or bike. And he was
still crucified! :(

Date: 22 Feb 2007 04:05:27
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <45DD21D2.A807FB29@hovnanian.com >,
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com > writes:
> nash wrote:
>>
>> Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
>> the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.
>> <<<<<<<<<<<<
>>
>> If they are speeding in the first place you are not officially slowing them
>> down.
>
> Who said anything about speeding? If a cyclist impedes more than 5
> vehicles, that's a violation.

Not necessarily. Are you sure there isn't a proviso
in that legislation that says the slow moving vehicle
may proceed until the first opportunity to /safely/
allow following traffic to overtake, if it's built-up
to five or more following vehicles?

> Just as it is for a motor vehicle.
>
>> You made that up didn't you?
>
> http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.427
>
> Note that the law defines a 'slow moving vehicles' as one traveling at a
> speed less than the normal traffic flow. It says nothing about speed
> limits.
>
>> How about being inept at driving they should "walk only" in the first place.
>
> The same goes for inept cyclists. Put the training wheels back on and
> ride only where mom can watch you.

Sometimes self-interested car drivers try to
disguise themselves as cyclists.
The results of their thrashings and wailings and
nashing of teeth are amusing. Like now.

Just do us all a favour, and try not to hit anyone
who has Right Of Way, okay? Think you can do that?

I knew you could.

Look at it this way -- the guy on the bike has to
get somewhere too. Same as you. And the guy/gal
on the bike isn't going to interfere with your
progress any more than the grey-bearded retiree
with the RV that you can't see around.

'Cuz we cyclists let you aggressive drivers go by.
We'd rather have you self-centred, inconsiderate
assholes ahead of us than behind us. When you're
in front of us, at least we can see and recognize
the usual bullshit you're about to pull off.

So, go kill yourselves on each other. No skin
off our teeth. As long as you don't take out
any innocent bystanders in the process. But
that's a lot to ask of selfish assholes.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 22 Feb 2007 01:29:34
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <3X0Dh.1070498$1T2.552787@pd7urf2no >,
"nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net > writes:
> Good post Tom. Drivers are so two faced.
> "Please, leave that horn alone
> unless you really need it in a dire emergency
> like brake failure."
> <<<<<<<<<<<
>
> that reminds me of what my Dad use to say when people honk
>
> "We know your horn works, now try your brakes" lol

I forgot to add the part about properly using turn signals.
I've had a car driver signal a right turn at a stop light
(45th & Kerr, Vancouver.) So I hauled-up onto his left
to go straight through. Unbeknownst to me, as I was waiting
on his left for the green light, he changed his mind, and]
flicked his turn signal to turn left, but of course, I couldn't
see that. The light turned green, I went, and he went -- and
cut across in front of me, from my right to my left, to make
his left turn from the right lane. I got honked-at from
drivers all around, like I was in the wrong.

What a bunch of car-driving assholes. But I forgive them.
'Cuz they're so naively stoopid. Besides, I anticipated
the guy would pull such an asshole trick on me, and I was
ready for it, so I didn't get clobbered. Robert H. knows
what I mean.

Keeping one's cool on city streets is half the trick to
urban cycling survival. The other half is reading
car drivers' minds. Fortunately, that's trivial & easy.
In fact it's more difficult to discern the incipient
maneouvers of sheep or cattle, than it is to anticipate
those of car drivers. All it takes is to expect stupid,
heartless and selfish impulses from them. As evidenced
by the recent plethora of local hit-&-run pedestrian victims.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 21 Feb 2007 21:01:36
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <bS4Dh.3335$B25.760@news01.roc.ny >,
Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu > writes:
> [Leaving group distribution intact since I don't know from what group
> you're reading this from]
>
> Wayne Pein wrote:
>> Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>
>>> Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
>>> the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.
>
>> Laws discriminating against slow traffic should be abolished in those
>> backwater places that have chosen to adopt them.
>
> I see those types of laws only applying to slow vehicles that take up
> the entire lane.

For an interesting treatment of the relationship between
traffic law and bicycles, I highly recommend Paul Schimek's:
Bicycles and the Traffic Law
A Guide to Improving U.S. Traffic Laws Pertaining
to Bicycling
available for perusal online at:
http://www.bicycledriving.com/trafficlaw.htm

Subtopics include: Impeding Traffic, and Slow Moving Vehicle Rule.

In my personal opinion we'd fare better by defaulting
and giving precedence to the old Common Law precepts of
Right of Way, as it was before post-WWII bureaucracies
overshadowed and obfuscated all that with Uniform Vehicle
Code renditions in American states, and Motor Vehicle Acts
in Canadian provinces.

Nowadays drummed-up legislation gets first consideration, and
Common Law Right of Way is referred-to only in exceptional
circumstances not covered, or muddled by legislation. It seems
to me that a lot of road/street users don't even know what a
ROW /is/. I guess that's what happens when a bunch of
power-tripping bureaucrats come up with their imperious
Thou Shalt Nots.

Note how under the venerable Right of Way rules, no vehicle
has ROW by dint of its size, weight or speed capability
(or the speed at which it approaches an intersection.)
And vehicles aren't discriminated against by type.

Furthermore, I submit following ROW rules inculcates more
sociable, respectful and understanding interactions between
street/road users -- regardless of the types of vehicles
they operate, and better than a bunch of legalistic mumbo-jumbo
such as Uniform Vehicle Codes and Motor Vehicle Acts.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 22 Feb 2007 12:58:31
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Tom Keats wrote:

> For an interesting treatment of the relationship between
> traffic law and bicycles, I highly recommend Paul Schimek's:
> Bicycles and the Traffic Law
> A Guide to Improving U.S. Traffic Laws Pertaining
> to Bicycling
> available for perusal online at:
> http://www.bicycledriving.com/trafficlaw.htm
>
> Subtopics include: Impeding Traffic, and Slow Moving Vehicle Rule.
>
> In my personal opinion we'd fare better by defaulting
> and giving precedence to the old Common Law precepts of
> Right of Way, as it was before post-WWII bureaucracies
> overshadowed and obfuscated all that with Uniform Vehicle
> Code renditions in American states, and Motor Vehicle Acts
> in Canadian provinces.
>
> Nowadays drummed-up legislation gets first consideration, and
> Common Law Right of Way is referred-to only in exceptional
> circumstances not covered, or muddled by legislation. It seems
> to me that a lot of road/street users don't even know what a
> ROW /is/. I guess that's what happens when a bunch of
> power-tripping bureaucrats come up with their imperious
> Thou Shalt Nots.
>
> Note how under the venerable Right of Way rules, no vehicle
> has ROW by dint of its size, weight or speed capability
> (or the speed at which it approaches an intersection.)
> And vehicles aren't discriminated against by type.
>
> Furthermore, I submit following ROW rules inculcates more
> sociable, respectful and understanding interactions between
> street/road users -- regardless of the types of vehicles
> they operate, and better than a bunch of legalistic mumbo-jumbo
> such as Uniform Vehicle Codes and Motor Vehicle Acts.
>

Characteristics of the Ideal Law:

* Simply stated; has clear meaning.
* Completely effective in solving the problem it addresses.
* Interacts synergistically with all other laws.
* Consumes minimal resources in its enforcement.
* Produces no adverse side-effects on human
rights, living standards or quality of life.

>From the book The Moon, Resources, Future
Development and Colonization, David G. Schrunk,
Burton L. Sharpe, Bonnie L. Cooper and Madhu
Thangavelu, New York : Wiley, 1999.

Wayne

Date: 22 Feb 2007 12:56:39
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Tom Keats wrote:

> For an interesting treatment of the relationship between
> traffic law and bicycles, I highly recommend Paul Schimek's:
> Bicycles and the Traffic Law
> A Guide to Improving U.S. Traffic Laws Pertaining
> to Bicycling
> available for perusal online at:
> http://www.bicycledriving.com/trafficlaw.htm
>
> Subtopics include: Impeding Traffic, and Slow Moving Vehicle Rule.
>
> In my personal opinion we'd fare better by defaulting
> and giving precedence to the old Common Law precepts of
> Right of Way, as it was before post-WWII bureaucracies
> overshadowed and obfuscated all that with Uniform Vehicle
> Code renditions in American states, and Motor Vehicle Acts
> in Canadian provinces.
>
> Nowadays drummed-up legislation gets first consideration, and
> Common Law Right of Way is referred-to only in exceptional
> circumstances not covered, or muddled by legislation. It seems
> to me that a lot of road/street users don't even know what a
> ROW /is/. I guess that's what happens when a bunch of
> power-tripping bureaucrats come up with their imperious
> Thou Shalt Nots.
>
> Note how under the venerable Right of Way rules, no vehicle
> has ROW by dint of its size, weight or speed capability
> (or the speed at which it approaches an intersection.)
> And vehicles aren't discriminated against by type.
>
> Furthermore, I submit following ROW rules inculcates more
> sociable, respectful and understanding interactions between
> street/road users -- regardless of the types of vehicles
> they operate, and better than a bunch of legalistic mumbo-jumbo
> such as Uniform Vehicle Codes and Motor Vehicle Acts.
>

Testify! That's so good I should make a giant quote of it!

Wayne

Date: 22 Feb 2007 06:17:08
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

tkeats2005@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:

>Furthermore, I submit following ROW rules inculcates more
>sociable, respectful and understanding interactions between
>street/road users -- regardless of the types of vehicles
>they operate, and better than a bunch of legalistic mumbo-jumbo
>such as Uniform Vehicle Codes and Motor Vehicle Acts.

Well said. It could be further pared down by simply substituting the
golden rule (do unto others as you'd have them do to you). It really
doesn't take a whole lot of courtesy to get the whole car/bike
interaction thing to work well in every circumstance.

Some DO seem to be born without the courtesy gene though... where
their perceived "rights" (whether they're in a car or on a bike)
trumps everyone else in the universe.

k Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Date: 21 Feb 2007 17:22:30
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <WP5Dh.4775$tD2.3126@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
"George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@earthlink.net > writes:
>
> "Arif Khokar" <akhokar1234@wvu.edu> wrote in message
> news:bS4Dh.3335$B25.760@news01.roc.ny...
>> [Leaving group distribution intact since I don't know from what group
>> you're reading this from]
>>
>> Wayne Pein wrote:
>> > Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>>
>> >> Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
>> >> the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.
>>
>> > Laws discriminating against slow traffic should be abolished in those
>> > backwater places that have chosen to adopt them.
>>
>> I see those types of laws only applying to slow vehicles that take up
>> the entire lane. IMO, drivers who lack the necessary competence to pass
>> a cyclist should lose their licences.
>
> Bicycles just slow down roads and make us invest a whole lot more.

No, that's what cars do.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 21 Feb 2007 17:18:43
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Date: 21 Feb 2007 12:55:07
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: BLOW YOUR HORN IF YOU LOVE BIKES!

> Am I disturbing the peace and quiet?

Yes.

> Does it look that bad?

Yes.

> OK, I'll use it sparingly.

I'd appreciate that. I'm sure other readers would as well.

Date: 21 Feb 2007 12:32:12
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: BLOW YOUR HORN IF YOU LOVE BIKES!

On Feb 21, 3:25 pm, "DanK...@gmail.com" <DanK...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 21, 2:29 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 21, 2:19 pm, "nash" <zwepytzkehil...@jetable.net> wrote:
>
> > > Good post Tom. Drivers are so two faced.
> > > "Please, leave that horn alone
> > > unless you really need it in a dire emergency
> > > like brake failure."
> > > <<<<<<<<<<<
>
> > > that reminds me of what my Dad use to say when people honk
>
> > > "We know your horn works, now try your brakes" lol
>
> > I think this as far as most motorists would go in support of bikes:
>
> > BLOW YOUR HORN IF YOU LOVE BIKES!
>
> > Next they can tackle another problem we got:
>
> > Blow your horn if you love peace and quiet!
>
> Must you change the subject line (to an annoying all-caps line at
> that!) constantly?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Am I disturbing the peace and quiet? Does it look that bad?

OK, I'll use it sparingly.

Date: 21 Feb 2007 12:25:36
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: BLOW YOUR HORN IF YOU LOVE BIKES!

On Feb 21, 2:29 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> On Feb 21, 2:19 pm, "nash" <zwepytzkehil...@jetable.net> wrote:
>
> > Good post Tom. Drivers are so two faced.
> > "Please, leave that horn alone
> > unless you really need it in a dire emergency
> > like brake failure."
> > <<<<<<<<<<<
>
> > that reminds me of what my Dad use to say when people honk
>
> > "We know your horn works, now try your brakes" lol
>
> I think this as far as most motorists would go in support of bikes:
>
> BLOW YOUR HORN IF YOU LOVE BIKES!
>
> Next they can tackle another problem we got:
>
> Blow your horn if you love peace and quiet!

Must you change the subject line (to an annoying all-caps line at
that!) constantly?

Date: 21 Feb 2007 11:29:30
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: BLOW YOUR HORN IF YOU LOVE BIKES!

On Feb 21, 2:19 pm, "nash" <zwepytzkehil...@jetable.net > wrote:
> Good post Tom. Drivers are so two faced.
> "Please, leave that horn alone
> unless you really need it in a dire emergency
> like brake failure."
> <<<<<<<<<<<
>
> that reminds me of what my Dad use to say when people honk
>
> "We know your horn works, now try your brakes" lol

I think this as far as most motorists would go in support of bikes:

BLOW YOUR HORN IF YOU LOVE BIKES!

Next they can tackle another problem we got:

Blow your horn if you love peace and quiet!

Date: 21 Feb 2007 11:16:40
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: Second Coming of Jesus on a donkey --or bicycle

On Feb 21, 12:24 pm, "cramer...@gmail.com" <cramer...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Feb 18, 4:03 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > T-SHIRTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD...
>
> > In any case, you may have decided you had it with the stupid beast,
> > and you've decided to give a chance to the st and small, just like
> > a bike or canoe. "Do not feed the dinosaur" seems like a good start.
>
> I'm OK with the sentiment, but I'm having trouble with the metaphor.
> SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs. They don't feed them. Good
> luck with your campaign.
>
> Steve

Oh, that's ANOTHER metaphor. Why would God wipe out the dinosaurs, to
provide oil for his worshippers in SUVs and motorboats? Oh sure, they
are fulfilling the prophecies that big is good, if you ever find one.
They no doubt would have sided with Rome at its prime (not the Vatican
but the Roman Empire).

But what if God decides to wipe out the new dinosaurs and make room
for the furry little mammals? Perhaps that would be the Second Coming
of Jesus on a donkey --or bicycle or canoe. Then the cyclists and
canoeists will lead the next revolution... ;)

For those who only listen to the preacherman, here's what the Bible
says...

John's gospel records that Jesus rejected the call to be their warrior
king. Mounting a young donkey, he rode into Jerusalem, fulfilling the
prophecy of Zephaniah: "Fear not, Daughter of Sion, your king is
coming, mounted on a donkey's colt."

Not a fearsome warrior, he was the humble king the prophet described.
In Jerusalem he would open his arms to the poor outcasts of the
world..

"At the time his disciples did not understand this..." John
concludes.

http://www.cptryon.org/prayer/season/palm.html

Date: 21 Feb 2007 08:39:30
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: If public transportation works good for Disney...?

On Feb 21, 11:19 am, Wayne Pein <w...@nc.rr.com > wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
> > Damage society? If it works for that Conservative Utopia callled
> > "Disney World," I don't see why transit can't work for the rest of
> > us...
>
> That's because you live in LaLaLand.

I thought I lived in the jungle. You know that philosophy of "bigger
is better"... But is it???

Tell us about the size incompatibility issue with SUVs.

... The Explorer and other sport utilities are built in such a way
that makes them extremely dangerous to cars. In fact, a federal study
found that the Explorer is 16 times as likely as the typical family
car to kill the other driver in a crash. If you look at the numbers,
almost as many people are being killed unnecessarily, additionally, in
cars each year by Explorers as died in tire-related crashes of
Explorers over the last decade. ...

Is it disingenuous for Ford to say that their SUV, or SUVs in general,
are safer than cars?

It's a myth that SUVs are safer than cars. People in SUVs die just as
often as people in cars; they just die differently. They are more
likely to die in rollovers, and they are much more likely to kill
other people. ...

Even the largest sport utility vehicles don't really make you
appreciably more safe than you would be in a large car or minivan, and
you will get much better gas mileage [in a car or minivan], you will
produce a tiny amount of the air pollution, and you will not be
putting your neighbors at an enormous risk. ...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/rollover/unsafe/theme.html

Date: 21 Feb 2007 08:31:24
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: MULTIMODAL IS THE WAY TO GO

On Feb 20, 12:11 am, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net > wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171834153.772917.266140@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 18, 12:50 pm, Arif Khokar <akhokar1...@wvu.edu> wrote:
> > Nobody is proposing here a no-car option. We are proposing OPTIONS,
> > like people choosing whether they need a car in freezing weather or
> > simply riding a bike in beautiful sunny weather.
>
> > Does the word "options" scare anyone?
>
> It is a very scary word in technology because it leads to major failures in
> society. especially failure in transportation.
>
> Technology "S" curves show the progress of technology in society with new,
> better technology replacing old, inferior technology.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations
>
> The problem is when you want options, the old technology is more expensive
> and the new technology requires money to grow. So for transportation to
> have options, you have to spend a lot of money on the old technology
> (transit) and lot of money as the newer technology (cars) becomes the
> dominant technology.
>
> Money constraints then results in both options not having enough money to
> grow the better solution and maintain the inferior solution. That is why
> in almost all technology fields only the dominant technology is available
> with few or no real options. That is the reason there are no tube computer
> options out there.
>
> The result of having options in technology is that both the old and the new
> technology are strangled for funds which greatly damages both options.
>
> Yes, "options" loved by the ignorant is very scary to knowledgeable people
> that want to build a working society, not a broken society.

BULLSHIT. Yep, in every society there's been several modes of
transportation in use at the same time. Either in Europe now or in
ancient Rome. Allow me here to use another biblical example...

"Jesus rode a donkey"... OK, the guy was poor so he had to make do
with it. It's the equivalent of a bike today.

"The emperor rode a donkey"... See, it doesn't make sense. The Emperor
and the Rich and Famous back then had their own wagons, fancy horses
or simply had beautiful slaves who carried them on their shoulders.
Fine.

See the pattern? MULTIMODAL IS THE WAY TO GO. But pity, a guy on a
bike today may easily be crushed by a Christian on a SUV. Not even
Jesus was run over by the emperor's wagon. But he was crucified. So is
the cyclist, metaphorically, that is.

But why am I getting so much into theology here? I guess I could
create yet another church: Church of the Latter Days Cyclists. ;)

Date: 21 Feb 2007 22:03:27
From: nash
Subject: Re: MULTIMODAL IS THE WAY TO GO

If you changed it from Emperor rode a donkey to rather the Messiah rode a
donkey the Messiah definitely had more power.
He came back from that beating didn't he.
So cyclists have the power. Use it wisely and peacefully to avoid a
beating.

Date: 21 Feb 2007 07:49:02
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

On Feb 20, 7:06 pm, "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net >
wrote:

> > Actually, I *do* think it is a shame that it's virtually impossible to use
> > horses for transportation in most areas, even rural ones. It basically
> > turns what could be a useful animal into another mouth to feed that's not
> > producing anything useful.
>
> Horses stopped doing useful work about 1920.- Hide quoted text -

It doesn't matter. The Christian Fundamentalists (those who interpret
the Bible literally) should ride the same vehicle their boss did: an
ass. Yep, it's in there in the Bible...

John 12:14

"Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,"

and...

Luke 13:15

The Lord answered him, "You hypocrites! Doesn't each of you know that
SUVs pollute my creation, make oil wars necessary and kill innocent
people who choose smaller vehicles?"

Well, that's not entirely in the Bible, but I'm sure Jesus would have
said it. ;)

Date: 22 Feb 2007 13:33:25
From: necromancer
Subject: donkey hotay's crossposting wankers need to STFU

Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), donquijote1954
said in rec.autos.driving:

<< snip a bunch of crap >>

--
Sincerely,

The New World Order.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 16:20:37
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: donkey hotay's crossposting wankers need to STFU

In article <MPG.2047abf08c6a91bf98a22e@newsgroups.bellsouth.net >,
necromancer <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_nospam_noway.org > wrote:

> Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), donquijote1954
> said in rec.autos.driving:
>
>
> << snip a bunch of crap >>

Yes, he does write a lot of crap... and I'm pro-bicycle! That's why
I've killfiled him and don't waste my time reading him. When he's
changed sock puppets, I've killfiled those too. Only way to deal with
folks like that.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 00:51:25
From: George Conklin
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1172072942.095652.323560@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 20, 7:06 pm, "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> > > Actually, I *do* think it is a shame that it's virtually impossible to
use
> > > horses for transportation in most areas, even rural ones. It
basically
> > > turns what could be a useful animal into another mouth to feed that's
not
> > > producing anything useful.
> >
> > Horses stopped doing useful work about 1920.- Hide quoted text -
>
> It doesn't matter. The Christian Fundamentalists (those who interpret
> the Bible literally) should ride the same vehicle their boss did: an
> ass. Yep, it's in there in the Bible...
>
> John 12:14
>
> "Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,"
>
> and...
>
> Luke 13:15
>
> The Lord answered him, "You hypocrites! Doesn't each of you know that
> SUVs pollute my creation, make oil wars necessary and kill innocent
> people who choose smaller vehicles?"
>
> Well, that's not entirely in the Bible, but I'm sure Jesus would have
> said it. ;)
>
>

And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his Fury he drove
them out."

Date: 21 Feb 2007 20:31:24
From: Amy Blankenship
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

"George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:hO5Dh.4758$tD2.2671@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1172072942.095652.323560@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 20, 7:06 pm, "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > > Actually, I *do* think it is a shame that it's virtually impossible
>> > > to
> use
>> > > horses for transportation in most areas, even rural ones. It
> basically
>> > > turns what could be a useful animal into another mouth to feed that's
> not
>> > > producing anything useful.
>> >
>> > Horses stopped doing useful work about 1920.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> It doesn't matter. The Christian Fundamentalists (those who interpret
>> the Bible literally) should ride the same vehicle their boss did: an
>> ass. Yep, it's in there in the Bible...
>>
>> John 12:14
>>
>> "Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,"
>>
>> and...
>>
>> Luke 13:15
>>
>> The Lord answered him, "You hypocrites! Doesn't each of you know that
>> SUVs pollute my creation, make oil wars necessary and kill innocent
>> people who choose smaller vehicles?"
>>
>> Well, that's not entirely in the Bible, but I'm sure Jesus would have
>> said it. ;)
>>
>>
>
> And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his Fury he drove
> them out."

I used to have one of those...

Date: 21 Feb 2007 19:35:32
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

In article <hO5Dh.4758$tD2.2671@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
"George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@earthlink.net > wrote:

> And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his Fury he drove
> them out."

God is also obviously an advocate of car pooling.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 11:18:37
From: George Conklin
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

"Tim McNaa" <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote in message
news:timmcn-949703.19353221022007@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <hO5Dh.4758$tD2.2671@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> "George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his Fury he
drove
> > them out."
>
> God is also obviously an advocate of car pooling.

Correct, because it says in New Testament, "And the Disciples were all of
one Accord."

Date: 22 Feb 2007 06:20:19
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

"George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@earthlink.net > wrote:

>
>"Tim McNaa" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
>news:timmcn-949703.19353221022007@news.iphouse.com...
>> In article <hO5Dh.4758$tD2.2671@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> "George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> > And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his Fury he
>drove
>> > them out."
>>
>> God is also obviously an advocate of car pooling.
>
>Correct, because it says in New Testament, "And the Disciples were all of
>one Accord."

Hmmmm. Interesting. Old Testament - big gas-guzzling V8. By the
time of Christ, it was down to an efficient Japanese sedan. I wonder
if it's gonna be a Prius or a bicycle by the time of the second
coming?

k Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Date: 22 Feb 2007 16:41:02
From: Bill Z.
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

k Hickey <k@habcycles.com > writes:

> Hmmmm. Interesting. Old Testament - big gas-guzzling V8. By the
> time of Christ, it was down to an efficient Japanese sedan. I wonder
> if it's gonna be a Prius or a bicycle by the time of the second
> coming?

At the rate the second coming is coming, my guess is that they'll
use ice skates because hell will have frozen over. :-)

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

Date: 21 Feb 2007 19:35:04
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

In article <hO5Dh.4758$tD2.2671@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
"George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@earthlink.net > wrote:

> And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his Fury he
> drove them out."

OK, that's pretty danged funny.

Date: 21 Feb 2007 07:29:34
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: THE RIGHT TO RIDE THE LANE --OR HAVE A BIKE LANE

On Feb 20, 9:56 pm, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <p...@hovnanian.com > wrote:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>
> > In article <45DA7C7B.F8362...@hovnanian.com>,
> > "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <p...@hovnanian.com> writes:
>
> > > There's a nice scenic road around a nearby island. In order to
> > > accommodate cycle traffic, the city ked off a cycle lane along one
> > > side of the road. Due to the width of the road (very narrow), they
> > > couldn't manage to put a lane on either side. So, in order to
> > > circumnavigate the island, you've got to go around clockwise.
>
> > > On a few nice weekend days, I've taken my bicycle around the loop.
> > > Riding clockwise, using the bicycle trail. Oddly enough, I'd say that
> > > about 95% of the rest of the cycle traffic takes the loop
> > > counter-clockwise. This places them on the side of the road with no
> > > trail where they have to block traffic.
>
> > If the cyclists are riding on the road, on
> > the correct side, they /are/ traffic.
>
> So, why complain about not having dedicated bicycle lanes then? If you
> are happy being 'traffic' you should share the road with the rest of it.
> We could save millions by not having to widen roads for cycle lanes.
>
> Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
> the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.

I think you are making so hard for the monkey on the bike that he'll
either get intimidated or crushed by cars.

If there's no bike lanes then bikes should have THE RIGHT TO RIDE THE
LANE. And if they are not happy with it, then let them make the bike
lane.

At least that's monkey's logic. By the way, do you know how he used
logic to beat the lion? ;)

THE MONKEY THAT WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE FOOD CHAIN WORKS

"A food chain shows how each living thing gets its food... a large
mass of living things at the base is required to support a few at the
top." (http://www.vtaide.com/png/foodchains.htm)

ONCE UPON A TIME...

THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE
Once upon a time, in the deep jungle, lived a Lion and a Monkey... One
day the Monkey, tired of the Lion always taking the LION'S SHARE, and
seeing that such injustice represented a danger to all, demanded
JUSTICE... The Lion, yawning and stretching, said, "You would have to
have paws and sharp teeth..." Then the Monkey, who was very clever,
devised a plan: He would go to the costume store, and look like a
lion...

When the HUNGRY LION saw him, noticing that the new lion wasn't a
match for him, and fearing COMPETITION, killed him on the spot --
before the indifferent look of the little animals of the jungle... And
that's how the Law of the Jungle was re-established one more time...
(NOTE: Other monkeys survived him...)

***

The st monkey shows his cleverness...

The monkey thinks: "Lions eat monkeys, and monkeys eat banana..." And
he tells the lion: "Mighty King, in all likelihood you can skip one
step in the food chain, so YOU CAN EAT MY BANANA..."

(Notice in this story how the "hungry lion that hated competition" is
a metaphor for Big Oil and SUV owners, while the monkey is a metaphor
for the environmentally concerned citizen who wants to ride a bike
safely)

Date: 21 Feb 2007 07:15:09
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <45DBB4C4.F6570C41@hovnanian.com >,
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com > writes:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>>
>> In article <45DA7C7B.F8362C96@hovnanian.com>,
>> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> writes:
>>
>> > There's a nice scenic road around a nearby island. In order to
>> > accommodate cycle traffic, the city ked off a cycle lane along one
>> > side of the road. Due to the width of the road (very narrow), they
>> > couldn't manage to put a lane on either side. So, in order to
>> > circumnavigate the island, you've got to go around clockwise.
>> >
>> > On a few nice weekend days, I've taken my bicycle around the loop.
>> > Riding clockwise, using the bicycle trail. Oddly enough, I'd say that
>> > about 95% of the rest of the cycle traffic takes the loop
>> > counter-clockwise. This places them on the side of the road with no
>> > trail where they have to block traffic.
>>
>> If the cyclists are riding on the road, on
>> the correct side, they /are/ traffic.
>
> So, why complain about not having dedicated bicycle lanes then?

I'm not making any such complaints.

> If you
> are happy being 'traffic' you should share the road with the rest of it.
> We could save millions by not having to widen roads for cycle lanes.

Exactly.

> Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
> the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.

Speaking of adhering to rules, make sure
you obey the speed limit when driving.
And yield to pedestrians about to cross
the street -- in fact, yield Right of Way
to everybody who should by rights have it.
And obey all mandatory signage, like "No
Left Turn" or "Do Not Enter". And stop
on yellow (unless unsafe to do so.) And
come to a full stop and yield before crossing
a sidewalk, such as at driveway exits.
And please, Please, leave that horn alone
unless you really need it in a dire emergency
like brake failure.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 21 Feb 2007 19:19:27
From: nash
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Good post Tom. Drivers are so two faced.
"Please, leave that horn alone
unless you really need it in a dire emergency
like brake failure."
<<<<<<<<<<<

that reminds me of what my Dad use to say when people honk

"We know your horn works, now try your brakes" lol

Date: 21 Feb 2007 07:15:16
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: If public transportation works good for Disney...?

On Feb 19, 11:46 pm, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net > wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171730128.951377.240340@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1171633440.389918.65860@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > "The culture is so geared to motor vehicles, it's oppressive," says
> > Craig Barnes, events coordinator of Transportation Alternatives, the
> > nonprofit group that organizes Bike Week, with sponsorship from the
> > city's Department of Transportation. "It's a real catch-22. People say
> > they'd bike if they saw more infrastructure, like bike lanes, parking,
> > traffic law enforcement, but city planners and politicians say they
> > won't give more until they see a need for it. Who's going to make the
> > first move? We try to link these two things."
>
> > You know, cars get the lion's share...
>
> Actually transit gets the majority of the transportation dollars in major
> cities while transporting only a small fraction of the commuters. That high
> spending on failed transit is what leads to increased congestion, leading to
> increased pollution leading to a high early death rate. It also leads to
> higher gas consumption which leads to increased CO2.
>
> You may get a kick out of trying to damage society with your incredible
> ignorance, but I am not amused.

Damage society? If it works for that Conservative Utopia callled
"Disney World," I don't see why transit can't work for the rest of
us...

Pity though that Disney recognizes the need of public transportion...

The internal transportation systems
Walt Disney World's transportation is one of the things that make a
vacation at WDW so carefree, relaxing, and magical. Simply put, Walt
Disney World's transportation network is among the most efficient,
easy to use, and convenient of any mass transit system in the world.
The system includes the famous Disney monorail, as well as busses and
watercraft, to move guests from resort hotel to park and back, park to
park, and from any other location to another within the 30,000+ acres
of the complex. The vehicles are always clean, loading and unloading
of passengers is simple and well-thought-out, and the wait for
transportation (except during the very busiest of times) is minimal.

It's hard to over-emphasize the convenience of the internal
transportation.

(http://www.mouseplanet.com/dtp/wdwguide/5_Primer/wdw_transportation/
w...)

If public transportation works good for Disney, why not outside? Hey,
it's carefree, relaxing, and magical. ;)

>
> > "The skew to cars, despite their disadvantages, is so profound,
> > politicians and bureaucrats spend entire careers simultaneously trying
> > to accommodate and tame traffic."
>
> Again you show you high level of ignorance of our technological society.
> Technology evolves over time as new technologies are tried with the ones
> that best meet the needs of people going on to dominate society until they
> are killed off with the next superior technology that people want.
>
> The word "skew" implies an unnatural process for what is actually normal
> technology evolution. . More of your irrational paranoia resulting from
> your ignorance of the society you live in..
>
> You probably too far over the edge into your insanity to ever be of any
> value in society, but who knows, sometimes nutcases yelling on street
> corners recover sanity.

I know, fighting gas-guzzling oversized SUVs makes you fight the
windmills. But many people are already riding bikes and public
transportation. And, of course, we got Disney's train.

Date: 21 Feb 2007 11:19:11
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: If public transportation works good for Disney...?

donquijote1954 wrote:

> Damage society? If it works for that Conservative Utopia callled
> "Disney World," I don't see why transit can't work for the rest of
> us...
>

That's because you live in LaLaLand.

Wayne

Date: 22 Feb 2007 00:51:59
From: George Conklin
Subject: Re: If public transportation works good for Disney...?

"Wayne Pein" <wpein@nc.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45dc7100$0$4917$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> donquijote1954 wrote:
>
> > Damage society? If it works for that Conservative Utopia callled
> > "Disney World," I don't see why transit can't work for the rest of
> > us...
> >
>
> That's because you live in LaLaLand.
>
> Wayne
>

Disney created stage sets, not real cities.

Date: 20 Feb 2007 18:56:04
From: Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Tom Keats wrote:
>
> In article <45DA7C7B.F8362C96@hovnanian.com>,
> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> writes:
>
> > There's a nice scenic road around a nearby island. In order to
> > accommodate cycle traffic, the city ked off a cycle lane along one
> > side of the road. Due to the width of the road (very narrow), they
> > couldn't manage to put a lane on either side. So, in order to
> > circumnavigate the island, you've got to go around clockwise.
> >
> > On a few nice weekend days, I've taken my bicycle around the loop.
> > Riding clockwise, using the bicycle trail. Oddly enough, I'd say that
> > about 95% of the rest of the cycle traffic takes the loop
> > counter-clockwise. This places them on the side of the road with no
> > trail where they have to block traffic.
>
> If the cyclists are riding on the road, on
> the correct side, they /are/ traffic.

So, why complain about not having dedicated bicycle lanes then? If you
are happy being 'traffic' you should share the road with the rest of it.
We could save millions by not having to widen roads for cycle lanes.

Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
RAM disk is *not* an installation procedure.

Date: 21 Feb 2007 11:17:42
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

> So, why complain about not having dedicated bicycle lanes then? If you
> are happy being 'traffic' you should share the road with the rest of it.
> We could save millions by not having to widen roads for cycle lanes.

Yes. Bicyclists should operate in the center of the lane like
motorcyclists. It's much safer than hugging the edge.

>
> Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
> the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.
>

Laws discriminating against slow traffic should be abolished in those
backwater places that have chosen to adopt them.

Wayne
Empower Human Power

Date: 21 Feb 2007 23:47:19
From: Arif Khokar
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

[Leaving group distribution intact since I don't know from what group
you're reading this from]

Wayne Pein wrote:
> Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

>> Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
>> the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.

> Laws discriminating against slow traffic should be abolished in those
> backwater places that have chosen to adopt them.

I see those types of laws only applying to slow vehicles that take up
the entire lane. IMO, drivers who lack the necessary competence to pass
a cyclist should lose their licences.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 12:46:50
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Arif Khokar wrote:

> Wayne Pein wrote:
>
>> Laws discriminating against slow traffic should be abolished in those
>> backwater places that have chosen to adopt them.
>
>
> I see those types of laws only applying to slow vehicles that take up
> the entire lane. IMO, drivers who lack the necessary competence to pass
> a cyclist should lose their licences.

You are right, with a caveat. I think they were intended to prevent a
motor vehicle operator from PURPOSEFULLY impeding other traffic by
traveling less than the speed limit. Vehicles that are slow by nature,
such as farm tractors were exempt. Then, in some places these vehicles
became non-exempt as society placed a premium on speed at the expense of
slow road users. Beyond that, bicyclists got entangled in the
discrimination even further. Of course, if one is slow, whether in a
motor vehicle or a bicycle vehicle it may be courteous to pull off the
narrow road to let a line of faster vehicles pass.

And you are also right that its usually not difficult for a motorist to
pass a bicyclist, even if the bicyclist is using the whole lane. It is
more of an issue with a group of cyclists. However, in that circumstance
I believe that the rights of the many (the cyclists) trumps the short
term inconvenince of the few (motorists). The maximum allowable speed on
a road is always by default the speed of the slowest user at that place
on the road.

Wayne

Date: 22 Feb 2007 00:53:10
From: George Conklin
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"Arif Khokar" <akhokar1234@wvu.edu > wrote in message
news:bS4Dh.3335$B25.760@news01.roc.ny...
> [Leaving group distribution intact since I don't know from what group
> you're reading this from]
>
> Wayne Pein wrote:
> > Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>
> >> Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
> >> the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.
>
> > Laws discriminating against slow traffic should be abolished in those
> > backwater places that have chosen to adopt them.
>
> I see those types of laws only applying to slow vehicles that take up
> the entire lane. IMO, drivers who lack the necessary competence to pass
> a cyclist should lose their licences.

Bicycles just slow down roads and make us invest a whole lot more.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 12:52:15
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

George Conklin wrote:

>
>
> Bicycles just slow down roads and make us invest a whole lot more.
>

Inept crybaby. Learn how to drive better. I don't have a problem passing
bicyclists when I drive. Why do you?

Wayne

Date: 22 Feb 2007 21:57:32
From: Arif Khokar
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Wayne Pein wrote:
> George Conklin wrote:

>> Bicycles just slow down roads and make us invest a whole lot more.

> Inept crybaby. Learn how to drive better. I don't have a problem passing
> bicyclists when I drive. Why do you?

He's an inept hypocrite. He also claims he has the right to block the
road with his unnecessary SUV and impede those with more capable vehicles.

Date: 21 Feb 2007 04:11:35
From: nash
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.
<<<<<<<<<<<<

If they are speeding in the first place you are not officially slowing them
down. You made that up didn't you?
How about being inept at driving they should "walk only" in the first place.
Geeezz Get a life.

Date: 21 Feb 2007 20:53:38
From: Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

nash wrote:
>
> Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
> the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.
> <<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> If they are speeding in the first place you are not officially slowing them
> down.

Who said anything about speeding? If a cyclist impedes more than 5
vehicles, that's a violation. Just as it is for a motor vehicle.

> You made that up didn't you?

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.427

Note that the law defines a 'slow moving vehicles' as one traveling at a
speed less than the normal traffic flow. It says nothing about speed
limits.

> How about being inept at driving they should "walk only" in the first place.

The same goes for inept cyclists. Put the training wheels back on and
ride only where mom can watch you.

> Geeezz Get a life.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for
the change to take effect. Reboot now? [OK]

Date: 22 Feb 2007 07:44:14
From: nash
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

The same goes for inept cyclists
<<<<<<<<<<<<

what do you mean by that? Cars get the lion's share means they shouldn't.
Do not know what your problem is with cyclists but you better grow out of
it. You just want to scare everyone off the road so you can be fast and
powerful. Well driving slow saves gas and gets the boys back on their own
soil. Ever think of that Law breaker.

Date: 23 Feb 2007 16:58:32
From: Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

nash wrote:
>
> The same goes for inept cyclists
> <<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> what do you mean by that? Cars get the lion's share means they shouldn't.
> Do not know what your problem is with cyclists but you better grow out of
> it. You just want to scare everyone off the road so you can be fast and
> powerful. Well driving slow saves gas and gets the boys back on their own
> soil. Ever think of that Law breaker.

Well, I'm a cyclist. Not as a political statement, but to get from point
A to B.

The road is a terrible place to make political statements.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Parity on, dudes!

Date: 22 Feb 2007 07:30:19
From: nash
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com > wrote in message
news:45DD21D2.A807FB29@hovnanian.com...
> nash wrote:
>>
>> Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
>> the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.
>> <<<<<<<<<<<<
>>
>> If they are speeding in the first place you are not officially slowing
>> them
>> down.
>
> Who said anything about speeding? If a cyclist impedes more than 5
> vehicles, that's a violation. Just as it is for a motor vehicle.
>
>> You made that up didn't you?
>
> http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.427
>
> Note that the law defines a 'slow moving vehicles' as one traveling at a
> speed less than the normal traffic flow. It says nothing about speed
> limits.
>
>> How about being inept at driving they should "walk only" in the first
>> place.
>
> The same goes for inept cyclists. Put the training wheels back on and
> ride only where mom can watch you.
>
>> Geeezz Get a life.
>
> --
> Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for
> the change to take effect. Reboot now? [OK]

Besides the laws were made for everyone's safety. That one only protects
speeders. What reason is there for saying cars have to go above 30 miles an
hour. Are we making them late for surgery?
5 seconds to go around a bike does not constitute slowing down traffic. It
is just in their bloated imagination. As a cyclist you are going to get
blamed for what every cyclist has ever done to one idiot driver only
according to him mind you. Thankfully I do not live in your neck of the
woods.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 07:47:40
From: nash
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

>>
>>> You made that up didn't you?
>>
>> http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.427
>>
>> Note that the law defines a 'slow moving vehicles' as one traveling at a
>> speed less than the normal traffic flow. It says nothing about speed
>> limits.

So you are admitting you would drive over the speed limit if everyone else
did and just people under who did not keep up. How manly. ohhhhh

>>> How about being inept at driving they should "walk only" in the first
>>> place.
>>
>> The same goes for inept cyclists. Put the training wheels back on and
>> ride only where mom can watch you.
>>
>>> Geeezz Get a life.
>>
>> --
>> Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for
>> the change to take effect. Reboot now? [OK]
>
> Besides the laws were made for everyone's safety. That one only protects
> speeders. What reason is there for saying cars have to go above 30 miles
> an hour. Are we making them late for surgery?
> 5 seconds to go around a bike does not constitute slowing down traffic.
> It is just in their bloated imagination. As a cyclist you are going to
> get blamed for what every cyclist has ever done to one idiot driver only
> according to him mind you. Thankfully I do not live in your neck of the
> woods.
>

Date: 20 Feb 2007 03:54:27
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <droleary.usenet-2B1C29.04593420022007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net >,
Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet@1q2007.subsume.com > writes:
> In article <MPG.2042b8ecca24d1e2989ac1@news.conversent.net>,
> David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:
>
>> Get a trailer? The only issue I can see with carrying groceries by bike
>> would be refrigerated or frozen stuff in warm weather, when it might get
>> too warm by the time I get home. Though a good cooler could take care
>> of that (for smaller quantities, you can get insulated bags or
>> panniers).
>
> You can even go further if you get electric coolers powered by solar
> panels on top of the trailer!

You don't need all that hi-tech, energy-consuming razmatazz.
Why do people always default to wasteful, hi-tech/hi-cost
approaches?

Actually, properly frozen foods stay frozen out of the
freezer pretty good for a couple of hours.

Throw a couple of containers of ice in there, and
yer off 'n runnin'. Stick yer bottle of pink
grapefruit juice in there too, for chilled swigs
on the way home.

And if you're gonna gripe that everything is too far
away from you -- well, maybe it's /you/ that is too
far away from everything you want. You can always
move back to the city, where everything /is/.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 20 Feb 2007 14:01:08
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <droleary.usenet-2B1C29.04593420022007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet@1q2007.subsume.com> writes:
>> In article <MPG.2042b8ecca24d1e2989ac1@news.conversent.net>,
>> David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Get a trailer? The only issue I can see with carrying groceries by bike
>>> would be refrigerated or frozen stuff in warm weather, when it might get
>>> too warm by the time I get home. Though a good cooler could take care
>>> of that (for smaller quantities, you can get insulated bags or
>>> panniers).
>> You can even go further if you get electric coolers powered by solar
>> panels on top of the trailer!
>
> You don't need all that hi-tech, energy-consuming razmatazz.
> Why do people always default to wasteful, hi-tech/hi-cost
> approaches?

What the flying Fuck is energy wasting about Solar?
Have you TOTALLY lost it?
>
> Actually, properly frozen foods stay frozen out of the
> freezer pretty good for a couple of hours.
>
> Throw a couple of containers of ice in there, and
> yer off 'n runnin'. Stick yer bottle of pink
> grapefruit juice in there too, for chilled swigs
> on the way home.
>
> And if you're gonna gripe that everything is too far
> away from you -- well, maybe it's /you/ that is too
> far away from everything you want. You can always
> move back to the city, where everything /is/.
>

Date: 21 Feb 2007 02:14:18
From: Aeek
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:01:08 GMT, Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net > wrote:

>Tom Keats wrote:

>> You don't need all that hi-tech, energy-consuming razmatazz.
>> Why do people always default to wasteful, hi-tech/hi-cost
>> approaches?
>
>What the flying Fuck is energy wasting about Solar?
>Have you TOTALLY lost it?

Got to make it and if you don't need the energy there's no payback to
be had.

Date: 21 Feb 2007 04:24:39
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Aeek wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:01:08 GMT, Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Tom Keats wrote:
>
>>> You don't need all that hi-tech, energy-consuming razmatazz.
>>> Why do people always default to wasteful, hi-tech/hi-cost
>>> approaches?
>> What the flying Fuck is energy wasting about Solar?
>> Have you TOTALLY lost it?
>
> Got to make it and if you don't need the energy there's no payback to
> be had.

Some of you people are totally hopeless. I had a spare solar cell just
sitting around so I hooked it to my 6 volt ine RDF that I sometimes
take with me for some FREE sound. No batteries, ever. Since I don't sit
by the waterfall in the rain I have AM/FM/ine LF, ine HF, and even
aircraft band. More entertaining listening in on the 'Heavies' flying
over than an MP3, and it's FREE. Sun is FREE. What don't you understand?
Should I go nuclear????
Bill Baka

Date: 21 Feb 2007 09:21:12
From: Daryl Hunt
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"Bill Baka" <bbaka@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:bQPCh.26151$zH1.16002@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> Aeek wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:01:08 GMT, Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Keats wrote:
>>
>>>> You don't need all that hi-tech, energy-consuming razmatazz.
>>>> Why do people always default to wasteful, hi-tech/hi-cost
>>>> approaches?
>>> What the flying Fuck is energy wasting about Solar?
>>> Have you TOTALLY lost it?
>>
>> Got to make it and if you don't need the energy there's no payback to
>> be had.
>
> Some of you people are totally hopeless. I had a spare solar cell just
> sitting around so I hooked it to my 6 volt ine RDF that I sometimes
> take with me for some FREE sound. No batteries, ever. Since I don't sit by
> the waterfall in the rain I have AM/FM/ine LF, ine HF, and even
> aircraft band. More entertaining listening in on the 'Heavies' flying over
> than an MP3, and it's FREE. Sun is FREE. What don't you understand?
> Should I go nuclear????
> Bill Baka

Wow, Bill. That would be considered "Unclean" by some. You are supposed to
hook up that generator to the rear wheel, suspend the rear wheel and pedal
while listing to those stations.:)

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Date: 21 Feb 2007 23:36:49
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Daryl Hunt wrote:
> "Bill Baka" <bbaka@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:bQPCh.26151$zH1.16002@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>> Aeek wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:01:08 GMT, Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Keats wrote:
>>>>> You don't need all that hi-tech, energy-consuming razmatazz.
>>>>> Why do people always default to wasteful, hi-tech/hi-cost
>>>>> approaches?
>>>> What the flying Fuck is energy wasting about Solar?
>>>> Have you TOTALLY lost it?
>>> Got to make it and if you don't need the energy there's no payback to
>>> be had.
>> Some of you people are totally hopeless. I had a spare solar cell just
>> sitting around so I hooked it to my 6 volt ine RDF that I sometimes
>> take with me for some FREE sound. No batteries, ever. Since I don't sit by
>> the waterfall in the rain I have AM/FM/ine LF, ine HF, and even
>> aircraft band. More entertaining listening in on the 'Heavies' flying over
>> than an MP3, and it's FREE. Sun is FREE. What don't you understand?
>> Should I go nuclear????
>> Bill Baka
>
> Wow, Bill. That would be considered "Unclean" by some. You are supposed to
> hook up that generator to the rear wheel, suspend the rear wheel and pedal
> while listing to those stations.:)
>
The idea is to relax at the mid-point of an 80 mile ride. Besides, since
the radio only takes about 1.5 watts at full volume and the solar panel
puts out about 250ma at 6 volts it works just fine. Pedaling for less
than 1 watt is a tad ridiculous. Riding is riding, and relaxing is
laying on the grass, listening to the waterfall and the radio, with the
radio being optional.
Bill Baka

Date: 22 Feb 2007 11:05:29
From: Daryl Hunt
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"Bill Baka" <bbaka@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:lI4Dh.83$m85.37@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> Daryl Hunt wrote:
>> "Bill Baka" <bbaka@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:bQPCh.26151$zH1.16002@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>> Aeek wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:01:08 GMT, Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom Keats wrote:
>>>>>> You don't need all that hi-tech, energy-consuming razmatazz.
>>>>>> Why do people always default to wasteful, hi-tech/hi-cost
>>>>>> approaches?
>>>>> What the flying Fuck is energy wasting about Solar?
>>>>> Have you TOTALLY lost it?
>>>> Got to make it and if you don't need the energy there's no payback to
>>>> be had.
>>> Some of you people are totally hopeless. I had a spare solar cell just
>>> sitting around so I hooked it to my 6 volt ine RDF that I sometimes
>>> take with me for some FREE sound. No batteries, ever. Since I don't sit
>>> by the waterfall in the rain I have AM/FM/ine LF, ine HF, and even
>>> aircraft band. More entertaining listening in on the 'Heavies' flying
>>> over than an MP3, and it's FREE. Sun is FREE. What don't you understand?
>>> Should I go nuclear????
>>> Bill Baka
>>
>> Wow, Bill. That would be considered "Unclean" by some. You are supposed
>> to hook up that generator to the rear wheel, suspend the rear wheel and
>> pedal while listing to those stations.:)
>>
> The idea is to relax at the mid-point of an 80 mile ride. Besides, since
> the radio only takes about 1.5 watts at full volume and the solar panel
> puts out about 250ma at 6 volts it works just fine. Pedaling for less than
> 1 watt is a tad ridiculous. Riding is riding, and relaxing is laying on
> the grass, listening to the waterfall and the radio, with the radio being
> optional.
> Bill Baka

I know, Bill. I was poking fun at some.:)

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Date: 24 Feb 2007 19:33:34
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Daryl Hunt wrote:
> "Bill Baka" <bbaka@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> The idea is to relax at the mid-point of an 80 mile ride. Besides, since
>> the radio only takes about 1.5 watts at full volume and the solar panel
>> puts out about 250ma at 6 volts it works just fine. Pedaling for less than
>> 1 watt is a tad ridiculous. Riding is riding, and relaxing is laying on
>> the grass, listening to the waterfall and the radio, with the radio being
>> optional.
>> Bill Baka
>
> I know, Bill. I was poking fun at some.:)
>
>
I can handle that.
Bill

Date: 21 Feb 2007 16:51:32
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <45dc721f$1@news.i70west.com >,
"Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com > wrote:

> Wow, Bill. That would be considered "Unclean" by some. You are supposed to
> hook up that generator to the rear wheel, suspend the rear wheel and pedal
> while listing to those stations.:)

Hmmm. Maybe I should patent this if it doesn't already exist, but does
anyone make a generator that is integrated with the freewheel or
possibly the derailer? By linking the generation to the pedaling
instead of the wheel, it'd be possible to just pedal backwards and
"freewheel" the power. I suppose you could also build the wheels for
the trailer with hub generators, but I still like the idea that the
trailer cover can power it. I'm surprised most refrigerated cooler lids
don't have panels built in already; maybe I should patent that, too. :-)

--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org

Date: 19 Feb 2007 22:03:36
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <45DA7C7B.F8362C96@hovnanian.com >,
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com > writes:

> There's a nice scenic road around a nearby island. In order to
> accommodate cycle traffic, the city ked off a cycle lane along one
> side of the road. Due to the width of the road (very narrow), they
> couldn't manage to put a lane on either side. So, in order to
> circumnavigate the island, you've got to go around clockwise.
>
> On a few nice weekend days, I've taken my bicycle around the loop.
> Riding clockwise, using the bicycle trail. Oddly enough, I'd say that
> about 95% of the rest of the cycle traffic takes the loop
> counter-clockwise. This places them on the side of the road with no
> trail where they have to block traffic.

If the cyclists are riding on the road, on
the correct side, they /are/ traffic.

> In addition, I get quite a few
> dirty looks and a few comments about riding 'the wrong way'.
>
> As far as I can tell, when riding recreationally, it doesn't matter
> which way one rides and I'd rather use the cycle lane. Unless of course,
> your form of recreation happens to be blocking traffic.

If cars can pass each other on this road,
they can pass bikes too.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 19 Feb 2007 20:43:39
From: Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

donquijote1954 wrote:
>
> On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net> wrote:
> > "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1171633440.389918.65860@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > But the good news is the facts are on our side and an ounce of
> > > truth trumps a tonne of lies. Given the choice, most people opt for
> > > carfree experiences: speedy tram trips, vacations in Venice, strolls
> > > to local kets, and public gathering places free from motor
> > > vehicles. The challenge then is to promote existing carfree otions and
> > > to create new ones.
> >
> > You really should wait to until you come down from you drug high before
> > posting insane gibberish
>
> You forget two important words: GIVEN THE CHOICE. People often do none
> of the above because they don't have a choice. Same thing for riding a
> bike...
>
> "The culture is so geared to motor vehicles, it's oppressive," says
> Craig Barnes, events coordinator of Transportation Alternatives, the
> nonprofit group that organizes Bike Week, with sponsorship from the
> city's Department of Transportation. "It's a real catch-22. People say
> they'd bike if they saw more infrastructure, like bike lanes, parking,
> traffic law enforcement, but city planners and politicians say they
> won't give more until they see a need for it. Who's going to make the
> first move? We try to link these two things."

There's a nice scenic road around a nearby island. In order to
accommodate cycle traffic, the city ked off a cycle lane along one
side of the road. Due to the width of the road (very narrow), they
couldn't manage to put a lane on either side. So, in order to
circumnavigate the island, you've got to go around clockwise.

On a few nice weekend days, I've taken my bicycle around the loop.
Riding clockwise, using the bicycle trail. Oddly enough, I'd say that
about 95% of the rest of the cycle traffic takes the loop
counter-clockwise. This places them on the side of the road with no
trail where they have to block traffic. In addition, I get quite a few
dirty looks and a few comments about riding 'the wrong way'.

As far as I can tell, when riding recreationally, it doesn't matter
which way one rides and I'd rather use the cycle lane. Unless of course,
your form of recreation happens to be blocking traffic.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Sleep is for wimps. Happy, healthy, well-rested wimps, but wimps
nonetheless.

Date: 20 Feb 2007 08:53:00
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:43:39 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<paul@hovnanian.com > wrote:

>As far as I can tell, when riding recreationally, it doesn't matter
>which way one rides and I'd rather use the cycle lane. Unless of course,
>your form of recreation happens to be blocking traffic.

What gave you that idea? Maybe I read this wrong, but you sound as if
you are riding against prevailing bicycle traffic on the trail, which
presumably is riding with other traffic. If there wasn't enough room
for two bike lanes (never mind the general lack of need), then there
isn't room for you to be riding against other bike traffic in the lane
that exists.

Since you ARE riding for recreation, why the need to inconvenience
others? Its not like this is an essential link in a commute.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 18 Feb 2007 13:29:13
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: Does the word "options" scare anyone?

On Feb 18, 12:50 pm, Arif Khokar <akhokar1...@wvu.edu > wrote:
> [Leaving group distribution alone since I don't know what group you're
> posting from]
>
> nash wrote:
> > I take more than one bicycle trip for my groceries and I have one produce
> > store 3 miles away. Does not stop me.
>
> I do get most of my groceries on bike when it's warmer, but there are
> certain things I have to use the car for (like when I purchase several
> watermelons) :)

Nobody is proposing here a no-car option. We are proposing OPTIONS,
like people choosing whether they need a car in freezing weather or
simply riding a bike in beautiful sunny weather.

Does the word "options" scare anyone?

Date: 19 Feb 2007 21:11:29
From: Jack May
Subject: Re: Does the word "options" scare anyone?

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171834153.772917.266140@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 18, 12:50 pm, Arif Khokar <akhokar1...@wvu.edu> wrote:

> Nobody is proposing here a no-car option. We are proposing OPTIONS,
> like people choosing whether they need a car in freezing weather or
> simply riding a bike in beautiful sunny weather.
>
> Does the word "options" scare anyone?

It is a very scary word in technology because it leads to major failures in
society. especially failure in transportation.

Technology "S" curves show the progress of technology in society with new,
better technology replacing old, inferior technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations

The problem is when you want options, the old technology is more expensive
and the new technology requires money to grow. So for transportation to
have options, you have to spend a lot of money on the old technology
(transit) and lot of money as the newer technology (cars) becomes the
dominant technology.

Money constraints then results in both options not having enough money to
grow the better solution and maintain the inferior solution. That is why
in almost all technology fields only the dominant technology is available
with few or no real options. That is the reason there are no tube computer
options out there.

The result of having options in technology is that both the old and the new
technology are strangled for funds which greatly damages both options.

Yes, "options" loved by the ignorant is very scary to knowledgeable people
that want to build a working society, not a broken society.

Date: 18 Feb 2007 13:25:21
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

On Feb 18, 12:30 pm, "Sancho Panza" <otterpo...@xhotmail.com > wrote:
> "nash" <zwepytzkehil...@jetable.net> wrote in message
>
> news:G%LBh.1017973$1T2.560822@pd7urf2no...
>
> > You want to ride your bike in 20 degree temperatures and 20 mile an
> > hour winds with ice and salty slushy crap all over the roads, you be
> > my guest. I'll stick with the car; heart disease is the least of my
> > worries under those conditions.
> > -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
>
> > I do not think we get heart disease from driving or taking transit in foul
> > weather. I am talking about over the years 99% of the time drivers could
> > have walked to the corner grocery and not taken a humvee.
>
> Sure, the corner grocery is more than two miles away and I've got three or
> four bags of groceries to carry back. Got a good way to do that?

Hey Sancho, you disappoint me with that logic. No wonder you got a big
belly.

You may split the load into two trips. Or you may simply ride a
tricycle with a basket in the back, old-guy style. If you rode an ass
with DonQuixote, a three-wheeled bike wouldn't fit you that bad.

Date: 17 Feb 2007 08:35:29
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net > wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171633440.389918.65860@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > But the good news is the facts are on our side and an ounce of
> > truth trumps a tonne of lies. Given the choice, most people opt for
> > carfree experiences: speedy tram trips, vacations in Venice, strolls
> > to local kets, and public gathering places free from motor
> > vehicles. The challenge then is to promote existing carfree otions and
> > to create new ones.
>
> You really should wait to until you come down from you drug high before
> posting insane gibberish

You forget two important words: GIVEN THE CHOICE. People often do none
of the above because they don't have a choice. Same thing for riding a
bike...

"The culture is so geared to motor vehicles, it's oppressive," says
Craig Barnes, events coordinator of Transportation Alternatives, the
nonprofit group that organizes Bike Week, with sponsorship from the
city's Department of Transportation. "It's a real catch-22. People say
they'd bike if they saw more infrastructure, like bike lanes, parking,
traffic law enforcement, but city planners and politicians say they
won't give more until they see a need for it. Who's going to make the
first move? We try to link these two things."

You know, cars get the lion's share...

"The skew to cars, despite their disadvantages, is so profound,
politicians and bureaucrats spend entire careers simultaneously trying
to accommodate and tame traffic."

http://www.transalt.org/press/media/2001/010509voice.html

Date: 22 Feb 2007 13:24:36
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

Once the dinosaur is either killed or put on a diet, this is the kind
of little animal that I think could prevail in the next evolutionary
period...

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/t/r/troprent/ford.htm

Of course, such a cute little car wouldn't have a chance now in our
Darwinian roads. Nobody would sell insurance for one. And all the
loopholes in the law go to favor the big and stupid (no special
license, you can write them for work use).

I'm praying that God decides their mission in life is over, and
decides to send Jesus on a donkey down here.

Date: 22 Feb 2007 07:34:59
From:
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

On Feb 22, 8:20 am, k Hickey <m...@habcycles.com > wrote:
> "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >"Tim McNaa" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> >news:timmcn-949703.19353221022007@news.iphouse.com...
> >> In article <hO5Dh.4758$tD2.2...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> >> "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >> > And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his Fury he
> >drove
> >> > them out."
>
> >> God is also obviously an advocate of car pooling.
>
> >Correct, because it says in New Testament, "And the Disciples were all of
> >one Accord."
>
> Hmmmm. Interesting. Old Testament - big gas-guzzling V8. By the
> time of Christ, it was down to an efficient Japanese sedan. I wonder
> if it's gonna be a Prius or a bicycle by the time of the second
> coming?
>
> k Hickey
> Habanero Cycleshttp://www.habcycles.com
> Home of the $795 ti frame

Witness the seeds of The Gospel of k.

/s

Date: 22 Feb 2007 18:40:40
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

blubberpuss@gmail.com wrote:

>On Feb 22, 8:20 am, k Hickey <m...@habcycles.com> wrote:
>> "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >"Tim McNaa" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
>> >news:timmcn-949703.19353221022007@news.iphouse.com...
>> >> In article <hO5Dh.4758$tD2.2...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> >> "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> > And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his Fury he
>> >drove
>> >> > them out."
>>
>> >> God is also obviously an advocate of car pooling.
>>
>> >Correct, because it says in New Testament, "And the Disciples were all of
>> >one Accord."
>>
>> Hmmmm. Interesting. Old Testament - big gas-guzzling V8. By the
>> time of Christ, it was down to an efficient Japanese sedan. I wonder
>> if it's gonna be a Prius or a bicycle by the time of the second
>> coming?
>>
>> k Hickey
>> Habanero Cycleshttp://www.habcycles.com
>> Home of the $795 ti frame
>
>Witness the seeds of The Gospel of k.

Heh. But it's already been done. Sigh... woulda made a great read.

k Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Date: 22 Feb 2007 21:12:34
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

In article <hfhst21in7fn3qhnlh4s642hkdd4n8g42p@4ax.com >,
k Hickey <k@habcycles.com > wrote:

> blubberpuss@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >On Feb 22, 8:20 am, k Hickey <m...@habcycles.com> wrote:
> >> "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >"Tim McNaa" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:timmcn-949703.19353221022007@news.iphouse.com...
> >> >> In article
> >> >> <hO5Dh.4758$tD2.2...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> >> >> "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> > And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his
> >> >> > Fury he drove them out."
> >>
> >> >> God is also obviously an advocate of car pooling.
> >>
> >> >Correct, because it says in New Testament, "And the Disciples
> >> >were all of one Accord."
> >>
> >> Hmmmm. Interesting. Old Testament - big gas-guzzling V8. By the
> >> time of Christ, it was down to an efficient Japanese sedan. I
> >> wonder if it's gonna be a Prius or a bicycle by the time of the
> >> second coming?
> >
> >Witness the seeds of The Gospel of k.
>
> Heh. But it's already been done. Sigh... woulda made a great read.

But not the Gospel of St. Habanerus.

Date: 23 Feb 2007 05:48:36
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

Tim McNaa <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:

> k Hickey <k@habcycles.com> wrote:>
>> blubberpuss@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >On Feb 22, 8:20 am, k Hickey <m...@habcycles.com> wrote:
>> >> "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >> >"Tim McNaa" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote
>> >> >> "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> > And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in his
>> >> >> > Fury he drove them out."
>> >>
>> >> >> God is also obviously an advocate of car pooling.
>> >>
>> >> >Correct, because it says in New Testament, "And the Disciples
>> >> >were all of one Accord."
>> >>
>> >> Hmmmm. Interesting. Old Testament - big gas-guzzling V8. By the
>> >> time of Christ, it was down to an efficient Japanese sedan. I
>> >> wonder if it's gonna be a Prius or a bicycle by the time of the
>> >> second coming?
>> >
>> >Witness the seeds of The Gospel of k.
>>
>> Heh. But it's already been done. Sigh... woulda made a great read.
>
>But not the Gospel of St. Habanerus.

I'm afraid y'all know me to well to qualify for sainthood... ;-)

k Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Date: 23 Feb 2007 09:11:26
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: The Christian Fundamentalists should ride an ass

In article <jjott21tnfd4t9132gmkjtpfiv5jg5fqos@4ax.com >,
k Hickey <k@habcycles.com > wrote:

> Tim McNaa <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > k Hickey <k@habcycles.com> wrote:>
> >> blubberpuss@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Feb 22, 8:20 am, k Hickey <m...@habcycles.com> wrote:
> >> >> "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> >> >"Tim McNaa" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote
> >> >> >> "George Conklin" <georgeconkl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> > And God drove a Plymouth. It says in the bible, "And in
> >> >> >> > his Fury he drove them out."
> >> >>
> >> >> >> God is also obviously an advocate of car pooling.
> >> >>
> >> >> >Correct, because it says in New Testament, "And the Disciples
> >> >> >were all of one Accord."
> >> >>
> >> >> Hmmmm. Interesting. Old Testament - big gas-guzzling V8. By
> >> >> the time of Christ, it was down to an efficient Japanese sedan.
> >> >> I wonder if it's gonna be a Prius or a bicycle by the time of
> >> >> the second coming?
> >> >
> >> >Witness the seeds of The Gospel of k.
> >>
> >> Heh. But it's already been done. Sigh... woulda made a great
> >> read.
> >
> >But not the Gospel of St. Habanerus.
>
> I'm afraid y'all know me to well to qualify for sainthood... ;-)

That doesn't seem to stop anybody else!

Date: 19 Feb 2007 20:46:58
From: Jack May
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171730128.951377.240340@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net> wrote:
>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1171633440.389918.65860@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> "The culture is so geared to motor vehicles, it's oppressive," says
> Craig Barnes, events coordinator of Transportation Alternatives, the
> nonprofit group that organizes Bike Week, with sponsorship from the
> city's Department of Transportation. "It's a real catch-22. People say
> they'd bike if they saw more infrastructure, like bike lanes, parking,
> traffic law enforcement, but city planners and politicians say they
> won't give more until they see a need for it. Who's going to make the
> first move? We try to link these two things."

>
> You know, cars get the lion's share...

Actually transit gets the majority of the transportation dollars in major
cities while transporting only a small fraction of the commuters. That high
spending on failed transit is what leads to increased congestion, leading to
increased pollution leading to a high early death rate. It also leads to
higher gas consumption which leads to increased CO2.

You may get a kick out of trying to damage society with your incredible
ignorance, but I am not amused.

> "The skew to cars, despite their disadvantages, is so profound,
> politicians and bureaucrats spend entire careers simultaneously trying
> to accommodate and tame traffic."

Again you show you high level of ignorance of our technological society.
Technology evolves over time as new technologies are tried with the ones
that best meet the needs of people going on to dominate society until they
are killed off with the next superior technology that people want.

The word "skew" implies an unnatural process for what is actually normal
technology evolution. . More of your irrational paranoia resulting from
your ignorance of the society you live in..

You probably too far over the edge into your insanity to ever be of any
value in society, but who knows, sometimes nutcases yelling on street
corners recover sanity.

Date: 20 Feb 2007 11:33:17
From: George Conklin
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"Jack May" <jack.may@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:uOednS9fzO_e4EfYnZ2dnUVZ_uygnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1171730128.951377.240340@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >> news:1171633440.389918.65860@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > "The culture is so geared to motor vehicles, it's oppressive," says
> > Craig Barnes, events coordinator of Transportation Alternatives, the
> > nonprofit group that organizes Bike Week, with sponsorship from the
> > city's Department of Transportation. "It's a real catch-22. People say
> > they'd bike if they saw more infrastructure, like bike lanes, parking,
> > traffic law enforcement, but city planners and politicians say they
> > won't give more until they see a need for it. Who's going to make the
> > first move? We try to link these two things."
>
> >
> > You know, cars get the lion's share...
>
> Actually transit gets the majority of the transportation dollars in major
> cities while transporting only a small fraction of the commuters. That
high
> spending on failed transit is what leads to increased congestion, leading
to
> increased pollution leading to a high early death rate. It also leads to
> higher gas consumption which leads to increased CO2.
>
> You may get a kick out of trying to damage society with your incredible
> ignorance, but I am not amused.
>
>
> > "The skew to cars, despite their disadvantages, is so profound,
> > politicians and bureaucrats spend entire careers simultaneously trying
> > to accommodate and tame traffic."
>
> Again you show you high level of ignorance of our technological society.
> Technology evolves over time as new technologies are tried with the ones
> that best meet the needs of people going on to dominate society until they
> are killed off with the next superior technology that people want.
>
> The word "skew" implies an unnatural process for what is actually normal
> technology evolution. . More of your irrational paranoia resulting from
> your ignorance of the society you live in..
>
> You probably too far over the edge into your insanity to ever be of any
> value in society, but who knows, sometimes nutcases yelling on street
> corners recover sanity.
>
>

I wonder why horse lovers do not get involved so they can declare that
bicycles get too much attention and what we really need are horse trails
along the interstates, along with special entrances and exits, to stop the
skew in favor of mechanized transport.

Date: 20 Feb 2007 10:24:15
From: Amy Blankenship
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:10BCh.3791$_73.2524@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Jack May" <jack.may@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:uOednS9fzO_e4EfYnZ2dnUVZ_uygnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1171730128.951377.240340@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >>
>> >> news:1171633440.389918.65860@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > "The culture is so geared to motor vehicles, it's oppressive," says
>> > Craig Barnes, events coordinator of Transportation Alternatives, the
>> > nonprofit group that organizes Bike Week, with sponsorship from the
>> > city's Department of Transportation. "It's a real catch-22. People say
>> > they'd bike if they saw more infrastructure, like bike lanes, parking,
>> > traffic law enforcement, but city planners and politicians say they
>> > won't give more until they see a need for it. Who's going to make the
>> > first move? We try to link these two things."
>>
>> >
>> > You know, cars get the lion's share...
>>
>> Actually transit gets the majority of the transportation dollars in major
>> cities while transporting only a small fraction of the commuters. That
> high
>> spending on failed transit is what leads to increased congestion, leading
> to
>> increased pollution leading to a high early death rate. It also leads to
>> higher gas consumption which leads to increased CO2.
>>
>> You may get a kick out of trying to damage society with your incredible
>> ignorance, but I am not amused.
>>
>>
>> > "The skew to cars, despite their disadvantages, is so profound,
>> > politicians and bureaucrats spend entire careers simultaneously trying
>> > to accommodate and tame traffic."
>>
>> Again you show you high level of ignorance of our technological society.
>> Technology evolves over time as new technologies are tried with the ones
>> that best meet the needs of people going on to dominate society until
>> they
>> are killed off with the next superior technology that people want.
>>
>> The word "skew" implies an unnatural process for what is actually normal
>> technology evolution. . More of your irrational paranoia resulting from
>> your ignorance of the society you live in..
>>
>> You probably too far over the edge into your insanity to ever be of any
>> value in society, but who knows, sometimes nutcases yelling on street
>> corners recover sanity.
>>
>>
>
> I wonder why horse lovers do not get involved so they can declare that
> bicycles get too much attention and what we really need are horse trails
> along the interstates, along with special entrances and exits, to stop the
> skew in favor of mechanized transport.

Actually, I *do* think it is a shame that it's virtually impossible to use
horses for transportation in most areas, even rural ones. It basically
turns what could be a useful animal into another mouth to feed that's not
producing anything useful.

Date: 21 Feb 2007 00:06:55
From: George Conklin
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"Amy Blankenship" <Amy_nospam@magnoliamultimedia.com > wrote in message
news:PgFCh.42172$I8.13957@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
>
> "George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:10BCh.3791$_73.2524@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Jack May" <jack.may@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:uOednS9fzO_e4EfYnZ2dnUVZ_uygnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >>
> >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1171730128.951377.240340@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> >> > On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> news:1171633440.389918.65860@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> > "The culture is so geared to motor vehicles, it's oppressive," says
> >> > Craig Barnes, events coordinator of Transportation Alternatives, the
> >> > nonprofit group that organizes Bike Week, with sponsorship from the
> >> > city's Department of Transportation. "It's a real catch-22. People
say
> >> > they'd bike if they saw more infrastructure, like bike lanes,
parking,
> >> > traffic law enforcement, but city planners and politicians say they
> >> > won't give more until they see a need for it. Who's going to make the
> >> > first move? We try to link these two things."
> >>
> >> >
> >> > You know, cars get the lion's share...
> >>
> >> Actually transit gets the majority of the transportation dollars in
major
> >> cities while transporting only a small fraction of the commuters. That
> > high
> >> spending on failed transit is what leads to increased congestion,
leading
> > to
> >> increased pollution leading to a high early death rate. It also leads
to
> >> higher gas consumption which leads to increased CO2.
> >>
> >> You may get a kick out of trying to damage society with your incredible
> >> ignorance, but I am not amused.
> >>
> >>
> >> > "The skew to cars, despite their disadvantages, is so profound,
> >> > politicians and bureaucrats spend entire careers simultaneously
trying
> >> > to accommodate and tame traffic."
> >>
> >> Again you show you high level of ignorance of our technological
society.
> >> Technology evolves over time as new technologies are tried with the
ones
> >> that best meet the needs of people going on to dominate society until
> >> they
> >> are killed off with the next superior technology that people want.
> >>
> >> The word "skew" implies an unnatural process for what is actually
normal
> >> technology evolution. . More of your irrational paranoia resulting
from
> >> your ignorance of the society you live in..
> >>
> >> You probably too far over the edge into your insanity to ever be of any
> >> value in society, but who knows, sometimes nutcases yelling on street
> >> corners recover sanity.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I wonder why horse lovers do not get involved so they can declare that
> > bicycles get too much attention and what we really need are horse trails
> > along the interstates, along with special entrances and exits, to stop
the
> > skew in favor of mechanized transport.
>
> Actually, I *do* think it is a shame that it's virtually impossible to use
> horses for transportation in most areas, even rural ones. It basically
> turns what could be a useful animal into another mouth to feed that's not
> producing anything useful.
>
>

Horses stopped doing useful work about 1920.

Date: 17 Feb 2007 18:32:33
From: nash
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171730128.951377.240340@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net> wrote:
>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1171633440.389918.65860@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > But the good news is the facts are on our side and an ounce of
>> > truth trumps a tonne of lies. Given the choice, most people opt for
>> > carfree experiences: speedy tram trips, vacations in Venice, strolls
>> > to local kets, and public gathering places free from motor
>> > vehicles. The challenge then is to promote existing carfree otions and
>> > to create new ones.
>>
>> You really should wait to until you come down from you drug high before
>> posting insane gibberish
>
> You forget two important words: GIVEN THE CHOICE. People often do none
> of the above because they don't have a choice. Same thing for riding a
> bike...
>
> "The culture is so geared to motor vehicles, it's oppressive," says
> Craig Barnes, events coordinator of Transportation Alternatives, the
> nonprofit group that organizes Bike Week, with sponsorship from the
> city's Department of Transportation. "It's a real catch-22. People say
> they'd bike if they saw more infrastructure, like bike lanes, parking,
> traffic law enforcement, but city planners and politicians say they
> won't give more until they see a need for it. Who's going to make the
> first move? We try to link these two things."
>
> You know, cars get the lion's share...
>
> "The skew to cars, despite their disadvantages, is so profound,
> politicians and bureaucrats spend entire careers simultaneously trying
> to accommodate and tame traffic."
>
> http://www.transalt.org/press/media/2001/010509voice.html

And hence we have a health problem linked to heart disease because people
would rather look like blimps than fight the gov't.
Never mind how many bikers die on the road. What about the no. 1 killer
which would not have happened if we were not this car centric.
>

Date: 17 Feb 2007 15:13:43
From: Matthew T. Russotto
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <5THBh.1017168$1T2.992073@pd7urf2no >,
nash <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net > wrote:
>
>And hence we have a health problem linked to heart disease because people
>would rather look like blimps than fight the gov't.
>Never mind how many bikers die on the road. What about the no. 1 killer
>which would not have happened if we were not this car centric.

You want to ride your bike in 20 degree temperatures and 20 mile an
hour winds with ice and salty slushy crap all over the roads, you be
my guest. I'll stick with the car; heart disease is the least of my
worries under those conditions.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

Date: 17 Feb 2007 23:14:46
From: nash
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

You want to ride your bike in 20 degree temperatures and 20 mile an
hour winds with ice and salty slushy crap all over the roads, you be
my guest. I'll stick with the car; heart disease is the least of my
worries under those conditions.
-- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,

I do not think we get heart disease from driving or taking transit in foul
weather. I am talking about over the years 99% of the time drivers could
have walked to the corner grocery and not taken a humvee.
Gov'ts do not want you healthy anyway. It is too lucrative for all the
scientists and car manufacturers, nurses, doctors, and police.

Date: 18 Feb 2007 12:30:55
From: Sancho Panza
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net > wrote in message
news:G%LBh.1017973$1T2.560822@pd7urf2no...
> You want to ride your bike in 20 degree temperatures and 20 mile an
> hour winds with ice and salty slushy crap all over the roads, you be
> my guest. I'll stick with the car; heart disease is the least of my
> worries under those conditions.
> -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
>
> I do not think we get heart disease from driving or taking transit in foul
> weather. I am talking about over the years 99% of the time drivers could
> have walked to the corner grocery and not taken a humvee.

Sure, the corner grocery is more than two miles away and I've got three or
four bags of groceries to carry back. Got a good way to do that?

Date: 18 Feb 2007 17:18:14
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In rec.bicycles.misc Sancho Panza <otterpower@xhotmail.com > wrote:
> "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> wrote in message
> news:G%LBh.1017973$1T2.560822@pd7urf2no...
>> You want to ride your bike in 20 degree temperatures and 20 mile an
>> hour winds with ice and salty slushy crap all over the roads, you be
>> my guest. I'll stick with the car; heart disease is the least of my
>> worries under those conditions.
>> -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
>>
>> I do not think we get heart disease from driving or taking transit in foul
>> weather. I am talking about over the years 99% of the time drivers could
>> have walked to the corner grocery and not taken a humvee.
>
> Sure, the corner grocery is more than two miles away and I've got three or
> four bags of groceries to carry back. Got a good way to do that?

Absolutely. I can take six full sacks by myself. Only four plus two
jugs of milk if I'm carrying my five year old along.

http://xtracycle.com

http://unixbigots.org/files/xtracycle_girls-01.jpg

Of course, if you're routinely carrying more than a couple hundred
pounds of cargo, you might look into a stokemonkey.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
We use Linux for all our mission-critical applications. Having the source code
means that we are not held hostage by anyone's support department.
(Russell Nelson, President of Crynwr Software)

Date: 18 Feb 2007 17:45:11
From: nash
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"Sancho Panza" <otterpower@xhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:r30Ch.1482$r97.32@newsfe09.lga...
>
> "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> wrote in message
> news:G%LBh.1017973$1T2.560822@pd7urf2no...
>> You want to ride your bike in 20 degree temperatures and 20 mile an
>> hour winds with ice and salty slushy crap all over the roads, you be
>> my guest. I'll stick with the car; heart disease is the least of my
>> worries under those conditions.
>> -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
>>
>> I do not think we get heart disease from driving or taking transit in
>> foul
>> weather. I am talking about over the years 99% of the time drivers could
>> have walked to the corner grocery and not taken a humvee.
>
> Sure, the corner grocery is more than two miles away and I've got three or
> four bags of groceries to carry back. Got a good way to do that?
>
>
If you wanted to you would find a way.
Wait till you get a heart attack. Why should anybody care if you do.

I take more than one bicycle trip for my groceries and I have one produce
store 3 miles away. Does not stop me.

Date: 18 Feb 2007 17:50:57
From: Arif Khokar
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

[Leaving group distribution alone since I don't know what group you're
posting from]
nash wrote:

> I take more than one bicycle trip for my groceries and I have one produce
> store 3 miles away. Does not stop me.

I do get most of my groceries on bike when it's warmer, but there are
certain things I have to use the car for (like when I purchase several
watermelons) :)

Date: 19 Feb 2007 11:12:54
From: David Kerber
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <5m0Ch.3039$B25.1908@news01.roc.ny >, akhokar1234@wvu.edu
says...
> [Leaving group distribution alone since I don't know what group you're
> posting from]
> nash wrote:
>
> > I take more than one bicycle trip for my groceries and I have one produce
> > store 3 miles away. Does not stop me.
>
> I do get most of my groceries on bike when it's warmer, but there are
> certain things I have to use the car for (like when I purchase several
> watermelons) :)

Get a trailer? The only issue I can see with carrying groceries by bike
would be refrigerated or frozen stuff in warm weather, when it might get
too warm by the time I get home. Though a good cooler could take care
of that (for smaller quantities, you can get insulated bags or
panniers).

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

Date: 20 Feb 2007 04:59:35
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In article <MPG.2042b8ecca24d1e2989ac1@news.conversent.net >,
David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net > wrote:

> Get a trailer? The only issue I can see with carrying groceries by bike
> would be refrigerated or frozen stuff in warm weather, when it might get
> too warm by the time I get home. Though a good cooler could take care
> of that (for smaller quantities, you can get insulated bags or
> panniers).

You can even go further if you get electric coolers powered by solar
panels on top of the trailer!

--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org

Date: 18 Feb 2007 10:39:04
From: Fred G. Mackey
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

Sancho Panza wrote:
> "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> wrote in message
> news:G%LBh.1017973$1T2.560822@pd7urf2no...

>
> Sure, the corner grocery is more than two miles away and I've got three or
> four bags of groceries to carry back. Got a good way to do that?
>

You're not crippled, are you? You could walk and carry the bags. It
would be good exercise. I would drive too, but you asked for a good way
to do it.

Date: 17 Feb 2007 18:27:01
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

nash wrote:
> You want to ride your bike in 20 degree temperatures and 20 mile an
> hour winds with ice and salty slushy crap all over the roads, you be
> my guest. I'll stick with the car; heart disease is the least of my
> worries under those conditions.
> -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
>
> I do not think we get heart disease from driving or taking transit in foul
> weather. I am talking about over the years 99% of the time drivers could
> have walked to the corner grocery and not taken a humvee.
> Gov'ts do not want you healthy anyway. It is too lucrative for all the
> scientists and car manufacturers, nurses, doctors, and police.
>
>
There's actually a grain of truth in that. They also don't want too many
of us baby boomers living long enough to collect our Social Security
checks. Publicly, they will make noise about smoking, laziness, and
heart attacks, cancer, and stuff, but I think in secret they just want
you to drop dead at 62. Funny how people are supposed to retire at 62-67
but politicians stay on until....well, forever if they can. I can see it
now, Teddy Kennedy being removed from his seat, stiff as a board. His
death only noticed because he hadn't said anything for a week.
Could happen???
Bill Baka

Date: 17 Feb 2007 18:57:22
From: Dave Head
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:32:33 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net > wrote:

>
>"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1171730128.951377.240340@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:1171633440.389918.65860@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> > But the good news is the facts are on our side and an ounce of
>>> > truth trumps a tonne of lies. Given the choice, most people opt for
>>> > carfree experiences: speedy tram trips, vacations in Venice, strolls
>>> > to local kets, and public gathering places free from motor
>>> > vehicles. The challenge then is to promote existing carfree otions and
>>> > to create new ones.
>>>
>>> You really should wait to until you come down from you drug high before
>>> posting insane gibberish
>>
>> You forget two important words: GIVEN THE CHOICE. People often do none
>> of the above because they don't have a choice. Same thing for riding a
>> bike...
>>
>> "The culture is so geared to motor vehicles, it's oppressive," says
>> Craig Barnes, events coordinator of Transportation Alternatives, the
>> nonprofit group that organizes Bike Week, with sponsorship from the
>> city's Department of Transportation. "It's a real catch-22. People say
>> they'd bike if they saw more infrastructure, like bike lanes, parking,
>> traffic law enforcement, but city planners and politicians say they
>> won't give more until they see a need for it. Who's going to make the
>> first move? We try to link these two things."
>>
>> You know, cars get the lion's share...
>>
>> "The skew to cars, despite their disadvantages, is so profound,
>> politicians and bureaucrats spend entire careers simultaneously trying
>> to accommodate and tame traffic."
>>
>> http://www.transalt.org/press/media/2001/010509voice.html
>
>
>And hence we have a health problem linked to heart disease because people
>would rather look like blimps than fight the gov't.
>Never mind how many bikers die on the road. What about the no. 1 killer
>which would not have happened if we were not this car centric.

Two wheels?

I got up and looked at my brand new Radio Shack indoor-outdoor thermometer this
morning, the bottom screen read 72.5 degrees, and the top one read 12.8
degrees.

Now, the damn driveway is a glare of ice, which is negotiated OK by my AWD
Subaru WRX. The roadways are _mostly_ clear of ice, but not parking lots - I
damn near sprained something in the movie parking lot last night after seeing
"Breach".

2 wheeled vehicle? Not on your life. I'd be having to buy a casket, mine. And
short of that, there's frostbite.

Face it, a car is an all-weather solution, or as close as you can get to one
for moving around locally. Even the damn DC Metro, the closes transit to which
I _still_ don't have access, stops when there's a lotta snow. They don't even
try - the snow shorts out the 3rd rail. So much for the exhaulted electric
trains. If they woulda just kept 'em in tunnels, I guess...

Dave Head

Date: 18 Feb 2007 02:50:18
From: Clark F Morris
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:57:22 GMT, Dave Head <rally2xs@att.net > wrote:

>On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:32:33 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:1171730128.951377.240340@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, "Jack May" <jack....@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:1171633440.389918.65860@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> > But the good news is the facts are on our side and an ounce of
>>>> > truth trumps a tonne of lies. Given the choice, most people opt for
>>>> > carfree experiences: speedy tram trips, vacations in Venice, strolls
>>>> > to local kets, and public gathering places free from motor
>>>> > vehicles. The challenge then is to promote existing carfree otions and
>>>> > to create new ones.
>>>>
>>>> You really should wait to until you come down from you drug high before
>>>> posting insane gibberish
>>>
>>> You forget two important words: GIVEN THE CHOICE. People often do none
>>> of the above because they don't have a choice. Same thing for riding a
>>> bike...
>>>
>>> "The culture is so geared to motor vehicles, it's oppressive," says
>>> Craig Barnes, events coordinator of Transportation Alternatives, the
>>> nonprofit group that organizes Bike Week, with sponsorship from the
>>> city's Department of Transportation. "It's a real catch-22. People say
>>> they'd bike if they saw more infrastructure, like bike lanes, parking,
>>> traffic law enforcement, but city planners and politicians say they
>>> won't give more until they see a need for it. Who's going to make the
>>> first move? We try to link these two things."
>>>
>>> You know, cars get the lion's share...
>>>
>>> "The skew to cars, despite their disadvantages, is so profound,
>>> politicians and bureaucrats spend entire careers simultaneously trying
>>> to accommodate and tame traffic."
>>>
>>> http://www.transalt.org/press/media/2001/010509voice.html
>>
>>
>>And hence we have a health problem linked to heart disease because people
>>would rather look like blimps than fight the gov't.
>>Never mind how many bikers die on the road. What about the no. 1 killer
>>which would not have happened if we were not this car centric.
>
>Two wheels?
>
>I got up and looked at my brand new Radio Shack indoor-outdoor thermometer this
>morning, the bottom screen read 72.5 degrees, and the top one read 12.8
>degrees.
>
>Now, the damn driveway is a glare of ice, which is negotiated OK by my AWD
>Subaru WRX. The roadways are _mostly_ clear of ice, but not parking lots - I
>damn near sprained something in the movie parking lot last night after seeing
>"Breach".
>
>2 wheeled vehicle? Not on your life. I'd be having to buy a casket, mine. And
>short of that, there's frostbite.
>
>Face it, a car is an all-weather solution, or as close as you can get to one
>for moving around locally. Even the damn DC Metro, the closes transit to which
>I _still_ don't have access, stops when there's a lotta snow. They don't even
>try - the snow shorts out the 3rd rail. So much for the exhaulted electric
>trains. If they woulda just kept 'em in tunnels, I guess...

I hope they still aren't using snow as an excuse for extended outages.
If they are suggest to them that they contact other transit
authorities in the northern United States, the TTC in Canada, Hamburg,
Stockholm, Oslo, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and Munich.
>
>Dave Head

Date: 17 Feb 2007 17:28:20
From: Baxter
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Dave Head" <rally2xs@att.net > wrote in message
news:4ujet216mkvnrei5mboojh076vshd09t1s@4ax.com...
>
>
> Now, the damn driveway is a glare of ice, which is negotiated OK by my AWD
> Subaru WRX. The roadways are _mostly_ clear of ice, but not parking
lots - I
> damn near sprained something in the movie parking lot last night after
seeing
> "Breach".
-----------
Ice Walker Cleats by Covell Covell Ice Walker cleats are easy on; economical
protection for slippery conditions. These rust resistant steel cleats dig
into the ice for a firm foothold.
http://www.vtarmynavy.com/ice-cleat.htm

Snow and Ice Traction Cleats
http://cozywinters.com/ice-cleats/ice-cleats.html

also:
http://www.shoechain.com/
http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/traccleatans.html

Scandinavian bicycle tire manufacturer Nokian makes carbide-studded "ice"
tires for winter riding.
http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000239.php

also:
http://bluecollarmtb.com/2007/01/18/zip-ties-for-better-traction/
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp

Date: 18 Feb 2007 12:30:31
From: Sancho Panza
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

"Baxter" <lbax02.spamguard@baxcode.com > wrote in message
news:12tfava4evfsbde@corp.supernews.com...
> -
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Dave Head" <rally2xs@att.net> wrote in message
> news:4ujet216mkvnrei5mboojh076vshd09t1s@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> Now, the damn driveway is a glare of ice, which is negotiated OK by my
>> AWD
>> Subaru WRX. The roadways are _mostly_ clear of ice, but not parking
> lots - I
>> damn near sprained something in the movie parking lot last night after
> seeing
>> "Breach".
> -----------
> Ice Walker Cleats by Covell Covell Ice Walker cleats are easy on;
> economical
> protection for slippery conditions. These rust resistant steel cleats dig
> into the ice for a firm foothold.
> http://www.vtarmynavy.com/ice-cleat.htm
>
> Snow and Ice Traction Cleats
> http://cozywinters.com/ice-cleats/ice-cleats.html
>
> also:
> http://www.shoechain.com/
> http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/traccleatans.html
>
>
> Scandinavian bicycle tire manufacturer Nokian makes carbide-studded "ice"
> tires for winter riding.
> http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000239.php
>
> also:
> http://bluecollarmtb.com/2007/01/18/zip-ties-for-better-traction/
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp

Does anyone know how many of these are sold in the U.S.?

Date: 18 Feb 2007 17:13:53
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: cars get the lion's share

In rec.bicycles.misc Sancho Panza <otterpower@xhotmail.com > wrote:
> "Baxter" <lbax02.spamguard@baxcode.com> wrote in message

>> Ice Walker Cleats by Covell Covell Ice Walker cleats are easy on;
>> Snow and Ice Traction Cleats
>>
>> Scandinavian bicycle tire manufacturer Nokian makes carbide-studded "ice"
>
> Does anyone know how many of these are sold in the U.S.?

Err, pretty much all of them? The shoe ice-cleats are standard
equipment for certain types of outdoorsy winter people. I've seen them
in person at my local REI. The studded bike are available by mailorder.
None of my local shops carry them that I know of, but Peter White
cyclery and some others do ship them.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he
is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not
make messes in the house.
-- Lazarus Long, "Time Enough for Love"

Date: 16 Feb 2007 13:44:34
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: "Put the dinosaur on a diet: Ride Public Transportation!"

Date: 16 Feb 2007 05:44:00
From: donquijote1954
Subject: Re: traffic jams are reaching a boiling point

On Feb 15, 9:06 pm, "Mike A Schwab" <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 15, 9:20 am, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:> That's the new T-shirt of a series that could change the world. Well,
> > first you gotta know who the dinosaur is, but I can tell you he's BIG,
> > STUPID and REFUSES TO EVOLVE. He may look like this...
>
> [delete]
> How about some cartoon dinos?http://www.roadkillbill.com/http://www.roadkillbill.com/G-page.htmland click on the 1st part.
> Dinos begin on page 2. Set in Minneapolis.
>
> http://www.roadkillbill.com/r80.htmlCM Kids

Very interesting. I took the freedom (what a sweet word) to reproduce
this...

Carfree Success Stories
The carfree movement faces huge challenges. Despite climbing gas
prices, daily confirmations of climate change, and the precarious
global petro-political situation, car use continues to reach record
high levels. The world's most profitable corporation is ExxonMobil,
which recently became the first company ever to generate US$1 billion
a day. It seems as if now that people have accepted the reality of
finite oil supplies, paradoxically they are going on a binge to use up
all they can while it's still available.
Car industries spend billions on advertising every year. In
addition to its impact on the mental environment, the clout of car-
related ad expenditures skews editorial content of the media in which
they appear. After all, most media outlets are for-profit businesses
which are reluctant to bite the hand that feeds them by casting a
critical eye on car culture. The glamourisation of automobiles in
popular entertainment continues unabated.
Leaders of industrialised nations are beholden to automobile
interests, whether as payback for campaign contributions or simply out
of the common perception that car manufacture and use are key indices
of economic health. Politicians fear any deviation from the status
quo.
But the good news is the facts are on our side and an ounce of
truth trumps a tonne of lies. Given the choice, most people opt for
carfree experiences: speedy tram trips, vacations in Venice, strolls
to local kets, and public gathering places free from motor
vehicles. The challenge then is to promote existing carfree otions and
to create new ones.
The success stories in this issue (not online) are not intended as
a comprehensive survey of tactics, but are presented to demonstrate
how a variety of strategies at various scales can effect positive
change. We hope they'll inspire you take action where you can.

***

The good news also is that traffic jams are reaching a boiling point,
and overheating is in the horizon...

Traffic congestion in the United States

On Fridays in California, Interstate 5 is often congested as Los
Angeles residents travel north for the weekendIn the United States,
construction of new highway capacity has not kept pace with increases
in population and car use and the resulting increase in demand for
highway travel. Between 1980 and 1999, the total length of highways as
measured by miles increased by only 1.5 percent, while the total
number of miles of vehicle travel increased by 76 percent.

The Texas Transportation Institute estimates that in 2000 the 75
largest metropolitan areas experienced 3.6 billion vehicle-hours of
delay, resulting in 5.7 billion US gallons (21.6 billion liters) in
wasted fuel and $67.5 billion in lost productivity, or about 0.7% of
the nation's GDP. It also estimates that the annual cost of congestion
for each driver is approximately $1,000 in very large cities and $200
in small cities. Traffic congestion is increasing in major cities, and
delays are becoming more frequent in smaller cities and rural areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_congestion

Date: 16 Feb 2007 18:23:45
From: Jack May
Subject: Re: traffic jams are reaching a boiling point

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171633440.389918.65860@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> But the good news is the facts are on our side and an ounce of
> truth trumps a tonne of lies. Given the choice, most people opt for
> carfree experiences: speedy tram trips, vacations in Venice, strolls
> to local kets, and public gathering places free from motor
> vehicles. The challenge then is to promote existing carfree otions and
> to create new ones.

You really should wait to until you come down from you drug high before
posting insane gibberish

Date: 15 Feb 2007 18:06:00
From: Mike A Schwab
Subject: Re: "Do not feed the dinosaur! Ride a bike!"

On Feb 15, 9:20 am, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> That's the new T-shirt of a series that could change the world. Well,
> first you gotta know who the dinosaur is, but I can tell you he's BIG,
> STUPID and REFUSES TO EVOLVE. He may look like this...
>
[delete]
How about some cartoon dinos?
http://www.roadkillbill.com/
http://www.roadkillbill.com/G-page.html and click on the 1st part.
Dinos begin on page 2. Set in Minneapolis.

http://www.roadkillbill.com/r80.html CM Kids