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Main
Date: 09 May 2007 18:39:02
From: Jay - BFri Commuter
Subject: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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I am thinking about buying a second folding bike. I am looking for
recommendations, but it seems like most RBM regulars ride strictly full-size
bikes.
I rarely fold my bike. But the small footprint of a bike with 20" wheels
works well for my inter-modal city commute, one leg of which is on a
elevated/subway city train. This involves carrying the bike up/down stairs.
I also need to stand cheek by jowl in crowded train aisles. So I like to be
as small as possible, without the hassle of folding the bike daily.
My current Bike Friday stock model has 20" wheels, so I guess I will stick
with that size. I also like full extension when pedaling. Given my
height/weight (6'4"/225lbs) + 25 lbs cargo, there is no stock folder which
would meet those specs. So we are talking about a custom folder, somewhat
north of $1,000 USD.
Bike Friday is in the lead, since they have treated me well after-sales. But
I want to at least consider options. I should at least think about the
Chinese alternative (Dahon and whomever else), if they even make custom
folders - TIA - America First J.
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Date: 14 May 2007 16:41:32
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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Jay - BFri Commuter wrote:
>
> I think I need heavy duty rims like Sun Rhyno Lite XL http://www.beyondbikes.com/bb/ItemMatrix.asp?GroupCode=WH-RIM-rhynolt
I think that in the context of 20" rims, the Sun Rhyno Lite XL, at
435g and 29mm wide, can better be characterized as a medium-duty rim.
It should be more than adequate for a rugged city bike that doesn't
need to carry passengers or heavy cargo.
Sun makes a relatively heavy-duty rim that looks very similar to an
oversized Rhyno Lite. It measures 665g and 34mm wide. It is called
Big City:
http://www.danscomp.com/420081.php
The gold standard in heavy-duty 20" rims for the last several years
has been the Alex Supra E, at 850g and 31.5mm wide:
http://www.danscomp.com/422006.php
Most rims on quality freestyle bikes these days are heavier and
stronger than the Rhyno Lite XL, but lighter and less strong than the
Supra E.
Chalo
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Date: 16 May 2007 08:25:35
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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In article <1179186092.413541.191330@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote:
> Jay - BFri Commuter wrote:
> >
> > I think I need heavy duty rims like Sun Rhyno Lite XL
> > http://www.beyondbikes.com/bb/ItemMatrix.asp?GroupCode=WH-RIM-rhynolt
>
> I think that in the context of 20" rims, the Sun Rhyno Lite XL, at
> 435g and 29mm wide, can better be characterized as a medium-duty rim.
> It should be more than adequate for a rugged city bike that doesn't
> need to carry passengers or heavy cargo.
I think the parameters of usage that 20" rims see are distorting the
parameters of what constitutes a light or heavy duty rim.
To compare to the rest of the bike universe, you'd practically have to
start your calibration at "lightweight" (to pick up stuff like the aero
Velocity rims aimed at the fast 'bent market), call the Rhyno Lite XL
"heavy duty," and then...
> Sun makes a relatively heavy-duty rim that looks very similar to an
> oversized Rhyno Lite. It measures 665g and 34mm wide. It is called
> Big City:
>
> http://www.danscomp.com/420081.php
"Super Duty"...
> The gold standard in heavy-duty 20" rims for the last several years
> has been the Alex Supra E, at 850g and 31.5mm wide:
>
> http://www.danscomp.com/422006.php
"Chalo Spec."
> Most rims on quality freestyle bikes these days are heavier and
> stronger than the Rhyno Lite XL, but lighter and less strong than the
> Supra E.
The fun we have when products start getting designed for tasks like
"drop ten feet to flat without tacoing." I think at the top end the
bikes are sturdier than the riders.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 13 May 2007 17:02:24
From: Sheldon Brown
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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Ryan Cousineau a =E9crit:
> Sheldonwill sell you a Sturmey-Archer 8-speed hub that has its lowest
> gear as the 1:1 ratio (which he claims, for some reason, makes it
> especially good for small-wheel bikes)
The reason is that the largest sprocket available for this hub is 25
teeth. If you want a serious low gear that's a problem. For
instance, if you want a 27" low gear, on a bike with 27" wheels,
you'll need a 25 tooth chainring. That puts a LOT of stress on the
chain and frame and axle in every gear you use.
If you mount it on a bike with 16" wheels, you can get the same low
gear with a much more reasonable 42 tooth chainring.
Sheldon " http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/internal " Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Date: 14 May 2007 18:09:10
From: Jay - BFri Commuter
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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"Sheldon Brown" <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com > wrote in message
news:1179100944.119652.59630@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Ryan Cousineau a écrit:
> Sheldonwill sell you a Sturmey-Archer 8-speed hub that has its lowest
> gear as the 1:1 ratio (which he claims, for some reason, makes it
> especially good for small-wheel bikes)
The reason is that the largest sprocket available for this hub is 25
teeth. If you want a serious low gear that's a problem. For
instance, if you want a 27" low gear, on a bike with 27" wheels,
you'll need a 25 tooth chainring. That puts a LOT of stress on the
chain and frame and axle in every gear you use.
If you mount it on a bike with 16" wheels, you can get the same low
gear with a much more reasonable 42 tooth chainring.
Sheldon " http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/internal " Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Date: 14 May 2007 07:24:12
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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In article <1179100944.119652.59630@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau a écrit:
>
> > Sheldonwill sell you a Sturmey-Archer 8-speed hub that has its lowest
> > gear as the 1:1 ratio (which he claims, for some reason, makes it
> > especially good for small-wheel bikes)
>
> The reason is that the largest sprocket available for this hub is 25
> teeth. If you want a serious low gear that's a problem. For
> instance, if you want a 27" low gear, on a bike with 27" wheels,
> you'll need a 25 tooth chainring. That puts a LOT of stress on the
> chain and frame and axle in every gear you use.
>
> If you mount it on a bike with 16" wheels, you can get the same low
> gear with a much more reasonable 42 tooth chainring.
>
> Sheldon " http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/internal " Brown
Thanks for the clarification. I should have been able to figure that
out, I suppose, but I was sorta fixated on the thought that the 1:1
ratio should be the most-used gear, or otherwise optimized to be the
gear you were in most of the time.
I have my suspicion that the 1:1 ratio being the low gear was entirely
in aid of some mechanical simplification of the hub.
That said, for the price (and it's unique narrow-spacing option), I'm
half-inclined to pick one up anyways. The only thing stopping me from
mail-ordering one now is this pesky summer vacation I'm saving up for...
-RjC, still thinking a hub-geared CX bike has interesting merits,
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 12 May 2007 00:53:01
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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Jay - BFri Commuter wrote:
>
> I don't want to pay a premium for a folding bike, if I would rarely fold it.
> It seems I could get a stronger frame for less $, if it does not fold.
Yep. especially if you are at all attracted to the idea of
commutifying a BMX frame as Ryan Cousineau has suggested. BMX stuff
is outstanding value.
Here's a frame at an appealing price in size "Pro XXL", which is BMX
terminology that's sort of difficult to explain adequately.
http://www.danscomp.com/201340.php
Basically, Pro XXL means full size adult, and bikes thus designated
tend to have top tubes around 21.5" in length. These bikes usually
have steep head angles and comparatively slack seat angles, so as you
go upwards, they naturally grow a longer cockpit. That works in your
favor.
You'd still have to get a silly-long seatpost, which in this case is
probably just a 1" rod of high strength aluminum with a short section
turned down to 7/8" at the top end. That's "custom", but it's also
something your weird uncle could cook up on his basement lathe in
fifteen minutes. None too exotic or expensive, in other words.
Note that BMX and freestyle bikes have rear ends that vary quite a bit
on length, even between bikes with the same length top tube. Bikes
for jumping things and breaking your collarbones have short rear ends,
which you don't want. Race bikes have less-short rear ends, which
works better for what you're looking at.
You'd need a tall stem with a tall bar, but this is not an
insurmountable problem. A stem for a "mod" class trials bike would be
a good start:
http://www.webcyclery.com/product.php?productid=17353
Unfortunately, trials bike handlebars come in retarded diameters, so
you'd have to consult your weird uncle again to get a pair of shims to
fit a 31.8mm stem to a 22.2mm BMX bar. Like these, but made for a
more retarded stem:
http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=SM3002
Or maybe you could get away with a more accessible and affordable
stem:
http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=SM2379
> I still need to check the links and ideas suggested so far. I also want to
> fight my inclination to make a snap decision on $1,000 purchases.
Agreed. This may be the sort of bike where you can start with
something you found in a dumpster. I understand if this is too
offensive to your dignity, but my point is that exhibiting a modicum
of resilience and imagination can save you a ton of cash.
> It would be nice if my center of mass is where it is supposed to be. Does
> this mean the midpoint between the front axel and the rear axel?
No.
> So the rider weight is distributed equally over the front and rear wheel?
No.
Most bikes have a rear weight bias-- something on the order of 2:1,
depending on the size of the bike and rider and the rider's position.
You don't need to find a 50/50 balance, you just need to move the
saddle aft and the bars forward by similar amounts until you get as
much room as you need. It's not hard science. If a bike feels
squirrelly, it is; and likewise if you feel like you are in control of
things, you probably are. A bar with lots and lots of rise-- like a
BMX bar-- allows you much fore-to-aft adjustability at the end of the
process without having to buy more stuff. Being able to swing the
seat guts around from the rear to the front of the post helps too,
more than doubling the amount of adjustment your saddle rails give
you.
Chalo
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Date: 13 May 2007 04:44:15
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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In article <1178956381.672020.185010@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote:
> Jay - BFri Commuter wrote:
> >
> > I don't want to pay a premium for a folding bike, if I would rarely fold it.
> > It seems I could get a stronger frame for less $, if it does not fold.
>
> Yep. especially if you are at all attracted to the idea of
> commutifying a BMX frame as Ryan Cousineau has suggested. BMX stuff
> is outstanding value.
>
> Here's a frame at an appealing price in size "Pro XXL", which is BMX
> terminology that's sort of difficult to explain adequately.
>
> http://www.danscomp.com/201340.php
>
> Basically, Pro XXL means full size adult, and bikes thus designated
> tend to have top tubes around 21.5" in length. These bikes usually
> have steep head angles and comparatively slack seat angles, so as you
> go upwards, they naturally grow a longer cockpit. That works in your
> favor.
It occurs to me that one early decision that should be made is what kind
of drivetrain is wanted on this bike. That will dictate some frame
spacing decisions, and I don't know what the default frame spacing on
modern BMXes is (on my old-school Kuwahara, the default frame spacing
was "narrow." But it was steel, so I could change that).
Sheldon will sell you a Sturmey-Archer 8-speed hub that has its lowest
gear as the 1:1 ratio (which he claims, for some reason, makes it
especially good for small-wheel bikes) and this same hub can be spaced
very narrowly, which means it doesn't matter what the frame spacing of
modern BMXes is.
It also will work perfectly with the track ends of a BMX frame, and at
$180 including shifter, it's really cheap.
So $180 for the frame, $300 for the custom rear wheel, free for the
front wheel (because if you can't scrounge an alloy BMX front wheel, the
rest of this project will be beyond you), etc. etc... Not cheap, but
super solid and cheaper than any commercial alternative.
You'll be swapping time for money on this project, though.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 10 May 2007 00:16:53
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> The other thing I would consider is starting with a BMX frame. The
> racing ones are not too heavy and strong like ox, and there are sizes to
> fit adult humans. Better yet, the proliferation of mountain bikes means
> that 400 mm seatposts area available to make a BMX into a fairly normal
> riding propostion. The front end may not be a trivial issue: you could
> end up with a pretty weird stem or needing a custom fork. I don't know:
> I'm not that tall.
That's not a bad idea per se, but a 400mm seatpost ain't gonna cut
it. That would give you at most 325mm of post hanging out of, what,
like 250mm of frame? Including a couple more inches of height for a
typical saddle, that's like 25 inches from BB center to top of
saddle. My bikes are more like 35 inches in that measurement.
Good lucky that the prevalent size of seatpost on BMX and freestyle
bikes these days is 25.4mm-- an even 1.00 inch. A piece of 1" 7075
aluminum rod would be plenty strong even if it stuck two feet out of
the frame-- and it would be a simple and cheap matter to have the top
couple of inches turned down to 7/8" in diameter to fit a normal seat
guts.
The main hangup, unless the OP likes having his bars well below saddle
level, is that the bar of a BMX bike, even accounting for the generous
8" rise of a tall "Pro XL" bend, would be situated uncomfortably low
for a tall rider. But getting a custom stem riser would be
substantially easier and cheaper, I'm guessing, than getting a custom
folding frame.
Chalo
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Date: 10 May 2007 18:27:13
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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In article <1178781413.747694.252810@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >
> > The other thing I would consider is starting with a BMX frame. The
> > racing ones are not too heavy and strong like ox, and there are sizes to
> > fit adult humans. Better yet, the proliferation of mountain bikes means
> > that 400 mm seatposts area available to make a BMX into a fairly normal
> > riding propostion. The front end may not be a trivial issue: you could
> > end up with a pretty weird stem or needing a custom fork. I don't know:
> > I'm not that tall.
>
> That's not a bad idea per se, but a 400mm seatpost ain't gonna cut
> it. That would give you at most 325mm of post hanging out of, what,
> like 250mm of frame? Including a couple more inches of height for a
> typical saddle, that's like 25 inches from BB center to top of
> saddle. My bikes are more like 35 inches in that measurement.
Okay, plan b... :)
> Good lucky that the prevalent size of seatpost on BMX and freestyle
> bikes these days is 25.4mm-- an even 1.00 inch. A piece of 1" 7075
> aluminum rod would be plenty strong even if it stuck two feet out of
> the frame-- and it would be a simple and cheap matter to have the top
> couple of inches turned down to 7/8" in diameter to fit a normal seat
> guts.
I thought that a lot of BMX bikes were using oversized MTB seatposts.
Are there any? Because if so, there's the possibility of getting a
telescoping post too (which would be sweet on a commuter bicycle).
I don't know if telescoping posts are Chalo-approved, but around here
some pretty large people ride VPS frames, which means two-clamp
telescoping posts.
> The main hangup, unless the OP likes having his bars well below saddle
> level, is that the bar of a BMX bike, even accounting for the generous
> 8" rise of a tall "Pro XL" bend, would be situated uncomfortably low
> for a tall rider. But getting a custom stem riser would be
> substantially easier and cheaper, I'm guessing, than getting a custom
> folding frame.
I wonder if you could get what was needed using one of those adjustable
hybrid stems in the full-up position, clamping a BMX bar? That would
give you about 1 cm of reach and several cm of rise (85 degrees, 110
mm?).
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 09 May 2007 23:51:42
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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Jay wrote:
>
> I am thinking about buying a second folding bike.
...
> I rarely fold my bike. But the small footprint of a bike with 20" wheels
> works well for my inter-modal city commute, one leg of which is on a
> elevated/subway city train. This involves carrying the bike up/down stairs.
> I also need to stand cheek by jowl in crowded train aisles. So I like to be
> as small as possible, without the hassle of folding the bike daily.
>
> My current Bike Friday stock model has 20" wheels, so I guess I will stick
> with that size. I also like full extension when pedaling. Given my
> height/weight (6'4"/225lbs) + 25 lbs cargo, there is no stock folder which
> would meet those specs. So we are talking about a custom folder, somewhat
> north of $1,000 USD.
I composed a longer reply, which seems to have been eaten by Google
Groups. If it shows up, you may disregard this one.
You seem to want two things:
1) a bike with a small footprint, and
2) a bike with an expansive rider envelope.
These things are not inconsistent with each other, and you do not have
to have a custom frame to get them. Use a stock folding frame for its
compact wheelbase and small overall size, and use a custom seatpost
and handlebar riser as necessary to get the fit you want.
The principle you should observe is that as a seatpost grows longer
than the design was intended to accomodate, the seat moves rearward
over the rear wheel. Use a handlebar stem that places the bar a
similar amount forward of where the design would ordinarily put it.
That will locate your "cockpit" and your center of mass in the middle
of the wheelbase where it belongs, thereby mitigating the worst
effects of either the superlong seatpost or the superlong stem used in
isolation. Get a seatpost that has a significant amount of layback if
that helps you establish a good fit-- just don't forget to offset the
bars forward to balance the rearward offset of the seat.
The Swift Folder is a simple, robust, versatile, and relatively
inexpensive frame to start with. The manufacturer offers "special
order" seatposts and stems, which might be enough to get you a decent
fit. http://www.swiftfolders.com/
Chalo
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Date: 11 May 2007 19:16:48
From: Jay - BFri Commuter
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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"Chalo" <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1178779902.234444.156860@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Jay wrote:
>>
>> I am thinking about buying a second folding bike.
> ...
>> I rarely fold my bike. But the small footprint of a bike with 20" wheels
>> works well for my inter-modal city commute, one leg of which is on a
>> elevated/subway city train. This involves carrying the bike up/down
>> stairs.
>> I also need to stand cheek by jowl in crowded train aisles. So I like to
>> be
>> as small as possible, without the hassle of folding the bike daily.
>>
>> My current Bike Friday stock model has 20" wheels, so I guess I will
>> stick
>> with that size. I also like full extension when pedaling. Given my
>> height/weight (6'4"/225lbs) + 25 lbs cargo, there is no stock folder
>> which
>> would meet those specs. So we are talking about a custom folder, somewhat
>> north of $1,000 USD.
>
> I composed a longer reply, which seems to have been eaten by Google
> Groups. If it shows up, you may disregard this one.
>
> You seem to want two things:
>
> 1) a bike with a small footprint, and
>
> 2) a bike with an expansive rider envelope.
>
> These things are not inconsistent with each other, and you do not have
> to have a custom frame to get them. Use a stock folding frame for its
> compact wheelbase and small overall size, and use a custom seatpost
> and handlebar riser as necessary to get the fit you want.
>
> The principle you should observe is that as a seatpost grows longer
> than the design was intended to accomodate, the seat moves rearward
> over the rear wheel. Use a handlebar stem that places the bar a
> similar amount forward of where the design would ordinarily put it.
> That will locate your "cockpit" and your center of mass in the middle
> of the wheelbase where it belongs, thereby mitigating the worst
> effects of either the superlong seatpost or the superlong stem used in
> isolation. Get a seatpost that has a significant amount of layback if
> that helps you establish a good fit-- just don't forget to offset the
> bars forward to balance the rearward offset of the seat.
>
> The Swift Folder is a simple, robust, versatile, and relatively
> inexpensive frame to start with. The manufacturer offers "special
> order" seatposts and stems, which might be enough to get you a decent
> fit. http://www.swiftfolders.com/
>
> Chalo
>
I certainly did not expect to get such detailed, expert advice from everyone
who has replied, regarding this niche need. It is greatly appreciated. I
need to clarify my specs a bit.
I probably do not need another folder, since I rarely fold my current bike.
I do certainly need a strong frame to support my weight (225lbs + 25lbs
cargo). I do not want to worry about frame failures. If the stronger frame
weighs a bit more, that is fine with me. I am commuting 15 miles daily (8
miles am, 7 miles pm), not touring. The morning route has a 1 mile latte
detour.
As far as my small footprint requirement, my current 20" wheel bike is fine.
The main issue is in the train aisle. I can usually position myself such
that I am out of the way. Wheels smaller than 20" are not needed. But these
guys with larger wheels are always in someone's way, and a larger bike is
harder to maneuver, and harder to carry up and down stairs. So I think 20"
is a good compromise.
I don't want to pay a premium for a folding bike, if I would rarely fold it.
It seems I could get a stronger frame for less $, if it does not fold.
I still need to check the links and ideas suggested so far. I also want to
fight my inclination to make a snap decision on $1,000 purchases.
It would be nice if my center of mass is where it is supposed to be. Does
this mean the midpoint between the front axel and the rear axel? So the
rider weight is distributed equally over the front and rear wheel? I did not
do well in physics, so I thought psychology would be the easier major - J.
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Date: 09 May 2007 21:19:46
From: Brian Huntley
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
|
On May 9, 6:39 pm, "Jay - BFri Commuter" <jbol...@gmail.com > wrote:
> I am thinking about buying a second folding bike. I am looking for
> recommendations, but it seems like most RBM regulars ride strictly full-size
> bikes.
>
Not that it'll suit your needs, but I saw my first Strida folder in
the wild today. Very fast to fold to a roll-along size. A bit odd,
though.
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Date: 09 May 2007 20:13:55
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
|
Jay - BFri Commuter wrote:
> I am thinking about buying a second folding bike. I am looking for
> recommendations, but it seems like most RBM regulars ride strictly full-size
> bikes.
>
> I rarely fold my bike. But the small footprint of a bike with 20" wheels
> works well for my inter-modal city commute, one leg of which is on a
> elevated/subway city train. This involves carrying the bike up/down stairs.
> I also need to stand cheek by jowl in crowded train aisles. So I like to be
> as small as possible, without the hassle of folding the bike daily.
>
> My current Bike Friday stock model has 20" wheels, so I guess I will stick
> with that size. I also like full extension when pedaling. Given my
> height/weight (6'4"/225lbs) + 25 lbs cargo, there is no stock folder which
> would meet those specs. So we are talking about a custom folder, somewhat
> north of $1,000 USD.
>
> Bike Friday is in the lead, since they have treated me well after-sales. But
> I want to at least consider options. I should at least think about the
> Chinese alternative (Dahon and whomever else), if they even make custom
> folders - TIA - America First J.
The real question is what you're going to be using the second folder
for. The recommendations are totally different for touring versus commuting.
To be as small as possible means going to a Bromptonesque size, like a
Brompton (duh), the Tikit, or the DaHon Curve SL (which is relatively
light compared to the Brompton. I'd probably go with the Curve for a
commute, and the Tikit for a travel bike for touring, if I was going the
16" route. I'd pass on the Brompton at this juncture.
There are also a couple of 18" wheeled bicycles, such as the Birdy.
If I wanted the ultimate custom 20" disassembleable touring bicycle, I'd
get the Gaerlan gt20.
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Date: 15 May 2007 05:54:38
From: Don Wiss
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
|
On Wed, 09 May 2007 20:13:55 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
>The real question is what you're going to be using the second folder
>for. The recommendations are totally different for touring versus commuting.
Yes! I just got back from beating up my new Dahon Glide in the Turks &
Caicos. A fellow seeing me post here that I was buying the Glide bike,
writes and asks about using one for commuting. Like no way. It weighs a
ton. This is manageable for the short schlep up to the check in counter,
but you would never want to commute with this bike.
I had some equipment failures. And the advertized pump isn't in the seat
post. Some of the failures are design issues. I'll start taking them up
with the dealer today.
Don <www.donwiss.com > (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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Date: 15 May 2007 15:33:14
From: Jay - BFri Commuter
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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"Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com > wrote in message
news:ph0j439e9iugf23k6ui9vgh19nnmtogip9@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 09 May 2007 20:13:55 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>>The real question is what you're going to be using the second folder
>>for. The recommendations are totally different for touring versus
>>commuting.
>
> Yes! I just got back from beating up my new Dahon Glide in the Turks &
> Caicos. A fellow seeing me post here that I was buying the Glide bike,
> writes and asks about using one for commuting. Like no way. It weighs a
> ton. This is manageable for the short schlep up to the check in counter,
> but you would never want to commute with this bike.
>
> I had some equipment failures. And the advertized pump isn't in the seat
> post. Some of the failures are design issues. I'll start taking them up
> with the dealer today.
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
Don,
Very interesting to read your Dahon comments!
I see your Glide is 36 lbs:
http://www.bikefold.com/dahon_glide_bicycle.htm
I recently glanced at the various Dahon models, and my first impression:
Heavy; and only for casual riders.
My Bike Friday Pocket Tourist is 26 lbs. I have always thought that is
pretty heavy. I would need to go with a non-folder to reduce that weight
very much, which is probably what I will do for my next (imminent) bike. I
am 230lbs + 25 lbs cargo, 6'4", so I need a strong bike. I want potential
frame failure to be a non-issue on my 15-mile daily commute - J.
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Date: 15 May 2007 21:10:34
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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Jay - BFri Commuter wrote:
> My Bike Friday Pocket Tourist is 26 lbs. I have always thought that is
> pretty heavy. I would need to go with a non-folder to reduce that weight
> very much, which is probably what I will do for my next (imminent) bike. I
> am 230lbs + 25 lbs cargo, 6'4", so I need a strong bike. I want potential
> frame failure to be a non-issue on my 15-mile daily commute - J.
The Dahon Speed TR, their 20" wheeled touring bike, is 28.6#. However
this includes items such as the dynamo hub, front and rear lights, rear
rack, mudguards, and I believe the kickstand. These items probably
account for much or all of the weight difference.
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Date: 15 May 2007 22:22:35
From: Don Wiss
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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On Tue, 15 May 2007, "Jay - BFri Commuter" <jbollyn@gmail.com > wrote:
>I see your Glide is 36 lbs:
>
>http://www.bikefold.com/dahon_glide_bicycle.htm
>
>I recently glanced at the various Dahon models, and my first impression:
>Heavy; and only for casual riders.
I would not call myself a casual rider. When I travel I can put a lot of
miles on the bike. In The Netherlands or Denmark I can bike 70 miles over a
14 hour day. In the Caribbean the distance is a lot shorter, but the roads
can be incredibly rough and/or sandy. This bike got a lot of shaking in my
11 days of riding it full time (when I wasn't flying between the six
islands).
I want large wheels for this. And I am used to larger wheels. My Batavus
has 28". So the Glide's 24" is at the bottom for me.
The Glide should me advertized as a tourist bike and never for commuting.
Though bike commuting to me is to use a bike to get to the train, fold for
the train, and then bike at the other end.
If you fold solely as you don't want to leave a bike on the street and you
carrying up to your office, this could still be too heavy.
Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/carib > (e-mail link at page bottoms).
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Date: 10 May 2007 01:45:08
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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In article <-9idnUXM8ocRxt_bnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@comcast.com >,
"Jay - BFri Commuter" <jbollyn@gmail.com > wrote:
> I am thinking about buying a second folding bike. I am looking for
> recommendations, but it seems like most RBM regulars ride strictly full-size
> bikes.
>
> I rarely fold my bike. But the small footprint of a bike with 20" wheels
> works well for my inter-modal city commute, one leg of which is on a
> elevated/subway city train. This involves carrying the bike up/down stairs.
> I also need to stand cheek by jowl in crowded train aisles. So I like to be
> as small as possible, without the hassle of folding the bike daily.
>
> My current Bike Friday stock model has 20" wheels, so I guess I will stick
> with that size. I also like full extension when pedaling. Given my
> height/weight (6'4"/225lbs) + 25 lbs cargo, there is no stock folder which
> would meet those specs. So we are talking about a custom folder, somewhat
> north of $1,000 USD.
>
> Bike Friday is in the lead, since they have treated me well after-sales. But
> I want to at least consider options. I should at least think about the
> Chinese alternative (Dahon and whomever else), if they even make custom
> folders - TIA - America First J.
Jay: since you don't really need the bike to fold, have you considered a
custom, small-wheel, non-folder?
Also, that kind of cash would get you into a lightly used Moulton AM or
similar. They don't fold, but they are pretty sturdy. There's a line
made by Pashley as well:
http://www.tsr.uk.com/bikes/
Pricing is in the realm of your budget: listed 900 pounds for the model
with an 8-speed hub gear.
Also, these guys:
http://www.gaerlan.com/bikes/who.html
Custom, plus mods to Dahons.
Scharf's folding bike list, just a bit out of date now:
http://nordicgroup.us/fold/
But back to my main point. The hard part of any folding bike is the part
where it folds. Getting that right is what you are paying the company to
do. Absent that trick, there's a fair number of custom builders who may
be able to work with you, because it's just a matter of getting the
geometry right on the small-wheel bike. The obvious builder who comes to
mind is Bilenky, because he already does oddball frames: the remarkable
ViewPoint tandem and a cargo bike. The difficulty may be making this
project fit your budget and his schedule (he's pretty popular).
The other thing I would consider is starting with a BMX frame. The
racing ones are not too heavy and strong like ox, and there are sizes to
fit adult humans. Better yet, the proliferation of mountain bikes means
that 400 mm seatposts area available to make a BMX into a fairly normal
riding propostion. The front end may not be a trivial issue: you could
end up with a pretty weird stem or needing a custom fork. I don't know:
I'm not that tall.
Hopefully Chalo will, er, weigh in, as he has experience with the
morphological issues when large riders and small wheels meet.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 10 May 2007 05:43:18
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Does anyone in RBM care a whit about custom folding bikes?
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Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Also, these guys:
>
> http://www.gaerlan.com/bikes/who.html
>
> Custom, plus mods to Dahons.
Yes, the gt20 is probably the best touring bike that breaks down, but it
doesn't really fold. Gaerlan's mod's to the DaHons get you back some of
functionality removed by DaHon. I have a 2004 DaHon speed TR, which was
the last year before they changed the design and it's great. Actually
the current Speed TR is fine, but the changes to the stem and the
folding mean that it no longer can be packed into an airline legal case.
With even the international airlines now charging for bicycles, being
able to fit into a 62" suitcase is an important feature.
> Scharf's folding bike list, just a bit out of date now:
> http://nordicgroup.us/fold/
Sorry.
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