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Main
Date: 29 May 2007 12:42:30
From: landotter
Subject: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
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Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/
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Date: 03 Jul 2007 18:10:12
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:29:58 +0100, Jeremy Parker wrote:
> "Luigi de Guzman" <luigi12081@cox.net> wrote
>
> [snip]
>>
>> My local (Northern Virginia, USA) suburban commuter rail station
>> has a
>> bicycle rack by the platform with space for maybe a dozen and a
>> half
>> bikes. I have never seen it more than half full. When I lived in
>> England
>> (roughly halfway between the USA's total car-dependence and urban
>> Holland's total bike-dependence), an equivalent station would have
>> had
>> space for literally hundreds of securely-locked bicycles--all of
>> which
>> spaces would have been occupied.
>
> That varies with location. Cambridge has a higher bike modal split
> than Amsterdam, and there must normally be close to a thousand bikes
> parked at the train station there. My local station, the outermost
> London station, on one of the lines to Cambridge, normally has one
> bike parked, except when my bike makes a second.
Ah, I've been found out. A thousand cycles at Cambridge station would be
a conservative estimate... But I've seen a fair number of cycles locked
up on some of those stations, at least from the train window.
I remember being particularly impressed at the fact that some stations had
Sheffield stands built right into the platforms--roll the bike onto the
platform, lock up, and walk onto the train. Very cool.
>
> Mind you, the last time I went to Cambridge, last week, as part of at
> Bike Week bike-to-work ride whose ride leader decided to play hooky,
> I took my bike with me on the train, so didn't contribute to bike
> parking at any station.
Another nice thing about those trains. When I was in London, it wasn't a
big deal for me to ride to Kings' Cross, roll my bike onto the train, roll
off at Cambridge, and ride into the city centre for the day, and take the
cycle back on the late (non-rush) trains. Brilliant!
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 11:28:19
From: Jeremy Parker
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
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"Luigi de Guzman" <luigi12081@cox.net > wrote in message
news:8iwii.45538$tL1.25812@newsfe22.lga...
> On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:29:58 +0100, Jeremy Parker wrote:
[snip]
>> That varies with location. Cambridge has a higher bike modal
>> split
>> than Amsterdam, and there must normally be close to a thousand
>> bikes
>> parked at the train station there. My local station, the
>> outermost
>> London station, on one of the lines to Cambridge, normally has one
>> bike parked, except when my bike makes a second.
>
> Ah, I've been found out. A thousand cycles at Cambridge station
> would be
> a conservative estimate... But I've seen a fair number of cycles
> locked
> up on some of those stations, at least from the train window.
Yes. One of the towns along the line is Stevenage, first of the post
WW II "new towns", famous for its bike path network. If you build
the bike paths first, and then add the houses round them, its easier
to build a good network than if you try to retrofit facilities
afterwards. Back during the bike/ecology boom of the late 1960s and
early '70s Stevenage was famous throughout the world. It's the town
that taught the Dutch how to do bike networks. Eric Claxton,
Stevenage's chief engineer, used to roam the world, giving talks
about the network.
Stevenage doesn't get nearly as many bikes at its station as does
Cambridge, but does normally have well over a hundred, I would say.
It's interesting the Hitchin, the next station towards Cambridge,
which is just an ordinary market town, and has no special bike
facilities at all, as far as I know, seems to have almost as many
bikes parked as Stevenage
Cambridge doesn't really have much in the way of bike facilities.
There is a super expensive bike bridge over the railway, next to the
station, and lots of short cuts across parks, which have always been
there, probably since bikes were invented. There was an outbreak of
bike lanes in, I would guess, about the 1970s or 1980s, but the bikes
were there before the bike lanes.
Jeremy Parker
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Date: 02 Jul 2007 16:49:47
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
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On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:21:12 -0700, bigjim wrote:
> Crime must be a bigger problem in Holland if people need to monster
> lock what we would generously call "garage sale specials". In the US
> I can use a single u lck or cable lock to secure a Cannondale while
> running errands (not overnight!!!) Maybe because Americans own more
> guns and don't cotton to thievery such locks arent necessary. I
> wish there were that many cyclists here.
No, it's that Americans don't value the bicycle nearly as much as certain
other people do. For most Americans, a stolen bicycle is merely an
inconvenience. For people who depend on bicycles for daily transport, a
stolen bicycle is a catastrophic loss.
Likewise, where there is more dependence on cycling, there's a greater
demand for bicycles, which feeds into the economics of bike theft.
My local (Northern Virginia, USA) suburban commuter rail station has a
bicycle rack by the platform with space for maybe a dozen and a half
bikes. I have never seen it more than half full. When I lived in England
(roughly halfway between the USA's total car-dependence and urban
Holland's total bike-dependence), an equivalent station would have had
space for literally hundreds of securely-locked bicycles--all of which
spaces would have been occupied.
-Luigi
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 03 Jul 2007 15:29:58
From: Jeremy Parker
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
"Luigi de Guzman" <luigi12081@cox.net > wrote
[snip]
>
> My local (Northern Virginia, USA) suburban commuter rail station
> has a
> bicycle rack by the platform with space for maybe a dozen and a
> half
> bikes. I have never seen it more than half full. When I lived in
> England
> (roughly halfway between the USA's total car-dependence and urban
> Holland's total bike-dependence), an equivalent station would have
> had
> space for literally hundreds of securely-locked bicycles--all of
> which
> spaces would have been occupied.
That varies with location. Cambridge has a higher bike modal split
than Amsterdam, and there must normally be close to a thousand bikes
parked at the train station there. My local station, the outermost
London station, on one of the lines to Cambridge, normally has one
bike parked, except when my bike makes a second.
Mind you, the last time I went to Cambridge, last week, as part of at
Bike Week bike-to-work ride whose ride leader decided to play hooky,
I took my bike with me on the train, so didn't contribute to bike
parking at any station.
Jeremy Parker
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Date: 01 Jun 2007 18:09:36
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
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On Jun 1, 11:15 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 1, 11:03 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 1, 12:21 am, big...@backpacker.com wrote:
>
> > > Crime must be a bigger problem in Holland if people need to monster
> > > lock what we would generously call "garage sale specials". In the US
> > > I can use a single u lck or cable lock to secure a Cannondale while
> > > running errands (not overnight!!!) Maybe because Americans own more
> > > guns and don't cotton to thievery such locks arent necessary.
>
> > Yes, it's the lack of gubs in Holland that are the problem. You hit
> > the nail on the head. If every omafiets had a gubrack, there'd be no
> > more crime. In addition, every athelete would have magical bowls of
> > wheaties that strengthened their tendons through chemical osmosis and
> > the rate of elderly trips and falls would be reduced, as when people
> > lost their balance, they could just fire their handgubs at the ground
> > till they were vertical again. Gubs! They're both the cause and
> > solution of every problem known!
>
> If everyone in the US had a gub, there would be no political arguments
> or societal bickering. Just shoot the MoFos who dare disagree with ya.
> That'll end the problem. Some guy in a big ol' pickuop runs ya off the
> road? Shoot the SOB. Done!
Ahhh, you said it! To be a nation of universal gubbists would be a
joy! No more stuck pickle jars, extended arguments, or tedious visits
to piercing studios.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyQO6Q5hmsE
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Date: 01 Jun 2007 16:15:35
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
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On Jun 1, 11:03 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 1, 12:21 am, big...@backpacker.com wrote:
>
> > Crime must be a bigger problem in Holland if people need to monster
> > lock what we would generously call "garage sale specials". In the US
> > I can use a single u lck or cable lock to secure a Cannondale while
> > running errands (not overnight!!!) Maybe because Americans own more
> > guns and don't cotton to thievery such locks arent necessary.
>
> Yes, it's the lack of gubs in Holland that are the problem. You hit
> the nail on the head. If every omafiets had a gubrack, there'd be no
> more crime. In addition, every athelete would have magical bowls of
> wheaties that strengthened their tendons through chemical osmosis and
> the rate of elderly trips and falls would be reduced, as when people
> lost their balance, they could just fire their handgubs at the ground
> till they were vertical again. Gubs! They're both the cause and
> solution of every problem known!
If everyone in the US had a gub, there would be no political arguments
or societal bickering. Just shoot the MoFos who dare disagree with ya.
That'll end the problem. Some guy in a big ol' pickuop runs ya off the
road? Shoot the SOB. Done!
Charlton Heston is the true Messiah. Let us prey!
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Date: 01 Jun 2007 16:03:21
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
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On Jun 1, 12:21 am, big...@backpacker.com wrote:
> Crime must be a bigger problem in Holland if people need to monster
> lock what we would generously call "garage sale specials". In the US
> I can use a single u lck or cable lock to secure a Cannondale while
> running errands (not overnight!!!) Maybe because Americans own more
> guns and don't cotton to thievery such locks arent necessary.
Yes, it's the lack of gubs in Holland that are the problem. You hit
the nail on the head. If every omafiets had a gubrack, there'd be no
more crime. In addition, every athelete would have magical bowls of
wheaties that strengthened their tendons through chemical osmosis and
the rate of elderly trips and falls would be reduced, as when people
lost their balance, they could just fire their handgubs at the ground
till they were vertical again. Gubs! They're both the cause and
solution of every problem known!
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Date: 31 May 2007 22:21:12
From:
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
Crime must be a bigger problem in Holland if people need to monster
lock what we would generously call "garage sale specials". In the US
I can use a single u lck or cable lock to secure a Cannondale while
running errands (not overnight!!!) Maybe because Americans own more
guns and don't cotton to thievery such locks arent necessary. I
wish there were that many cyclists here.
On May 30, 8:56 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On May 30, 6:38 am, catzz66 <catz...@threeletterservice.com> wrote:
>
> > landotter wrote:
> > > Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
> > > these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
> > > seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
>
> > > Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>
> > It's great to see so many people using bikes in their normal routine.
>
> Indeed it is. That is what is lacking here in the US, where so many
> cyclists fall either into the can't-afford-a-car/suspended license
> camp or the racer-wannabe camp.
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Date: 30 May 2007 18:50:29
From: Veloise
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On May 29, 3:42 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
> these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
> seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
>
> Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>
> http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/
Let alone a folding bike. D'oh!
--Karen D.
riding in Grand Rapids Mich, on a bicycle
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Date: 30 May 2007 11:57:18
From: Olebiker
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On May 30, 1:01 pm, Paul Myron Hobson <phob...@gatech.edu > wrote:
> Olebiker wrote:
> > Put that guy riding in his suit on a bike in Atlanta's hills in the
> > Summer. He wouldn't look so content.
>
> Pssh...More people commute around here than you realize.
Not in a suit in the middle of Summer, they don't.
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Date: 30 May 2007 15:33:26
From: Paul Myron Hobson
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
Olebiker wrote:
> On May 30, 1:01 pm, Paul Myron Hobson <phob...@gatech.edu> wrote:
>> Olebiker wrote:
>>> Put that guy riding in his suit on a bike in Atlanta's hills in the
>>> Summer. He wouldn't look so content.
>> Pssh...More people commute around here than you realize.
>
> Not in a suit in the middle of Summer, they don't.
Well, they have the since to leave early enough to take a shower and
change clothes.
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Date: 30 May 2007 15:37:33
From: Paul Myron Hobson
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
Paul Myron Hobson wrote:
> Olebiker wrote:
>> On May 30, 1:01 pm, Paul Myron Hobson <phob...@gatech.edu> wrote:
>>> Olebiker wrote:
>>>> Put that guy riding in his suit on a bike in Atlanta's hills in the
>>>> Summer. He wouldn't look so content.
>>> Pssh...More people commute around here than you realize.
>>
>> Not in a suit in the middle of Summer, they don't.
>
> Well, they have the since to leave early enough to take a shower and
> change clothes.
Clearly I meant to type "cents" :)
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Date: 30 May 2007 09:57:35
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On May 30, 10:46 am, Olebiker <ddur...@tfn.net > wrote:
> On May 30, 7:38 am, catzz66 <catz...@threeletterservice.com> wrote:
>
> > landotter wrote:
> > > Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>
> > It's great to see so many people using bikes in their normal routine.
>
> Put that guy riding in his suit on a bike in Atlanta's hills in the
> Summer. He wouldn't look so content.
Put him on the street cruising from midtown to downtown on Peachtree,
and add a nice Panama hat for the sun, and he'd be just fine. For the
real summer heat, buy your guy a MARTA pass.
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Date: 30 May 2007 14:11:54
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
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On 30 May 2007 09:57:35 -0700, landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
>On May 30, 10:46 am, Olebiker <ddur...@tfn.net> wrote:
>> On May 30, 7:38 am, catzz66 <catz...@threeletterservice.com> wrote:
>>
>> > landotter wrote:
>> > > Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>>
>> > It's great to see so many people using bikes in their normal routine.
>>
>> Put that guy riding in his suit on a bike in Atlanta's hills in the
>> Summer. He wouldn't look so content.
>
>Put him on the street cruising from midtown to downtown on Peachtree,
>and add a nice Panama hat for the sun, and he'd be just fine. For the
>real summer heat, buy your guy a MARTA pass.
I think part of the reason for the pitiful lack of North American
commuter/utility bicycling is because the machines and images being
sold are of the sporting aspect of bicycling. You know, the image
that requires you own a SUV for transporting said bikes to fantasy
movie sets so you can ride them.
The machines are sold with models posing in lycra or body armour.
Only recently has the street image begun to be employed by more
manufacturers to sell an evolving line of bicycles to the urban hip.
Still it's not an image that appeals to everyone any more than the
helmeted pastel mom, dad and kids toddling through fantasy land on
their new matching machines.
I'm sure as many people, if not more, are deterred from bicycling by
the implied need to wear spandex as the implied or mandated need for
special headgear.
Problem is that most of the bikes offered to the N.A. public are
designed for sport and are more comfortably ridden in sport specific
clothing. The lack of "sensible bikes" has spawned the remarkable
growth of the sport specific clothing industries.
It's going to be hard to get people to shell out $600 for a reliable
urban mount when they already have a sporting type bike.
--
zk
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Date: 30 May 2007 13:10:56
From: Paul Myron Hobson
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
landotter wrote:
> On May 30, 10:46 am, Olebiker <ddur...@tfn.net> wrote:
>> On May 30, 7:38 am, catzz66 <catz...@threeletterservice.com> wrote:
>>
>>> landotter wrote:
>>>> Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>>> It's great to see so many people using bikes in their normal routine.
>> Put that guy riding in his suit on a bike in Atlanta's hills in the
>> Summer. He wouldn't look so content.
>
> Put him on the street cruising from midtown to downtown on Peachtree,
> and add a nice Panama hat for the sun, and he'd be just fine. For the
> real summer heat, buy your guy a MARTA pass.
>
Thing is, before 7:30 or 8:00 in the morning, it's nice out!
Get to the lab, shower.
Work.
Go home as the sun's just starting to set (hot, but the good hot).
Start dinner, chug water.
etc etc
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Date: 30 May 2007 09:51:56
From:
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On May 30, 8:18 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net > wrote:
> Careful there, Brickston. You do not want to rile Saint Edward the Great!
If "rile" is a synonym for "impale," then I suspect you're wrong.
> Is that asshole Bill Baka still around?
He's been replaced by a much more obnoxious and banal troll: you,
Eddie.
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Date: 30 May 2007 18:14:57
From: Grolch
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
Well, as a dutch born (Boxtel, NB) immigrant to Canada. I remember well my
early days in Richmond British Columbia. Richmond, a suburb of Vancouver is
a river delta island thus all flat and surrounded by dikes. I suppose this
is what may have attracted my parents. But I remember my mother going
shopping on her Omafiets, with me, and my brother and sister on board. The
groceries would hang off the handle bars. Pure elegance. I have been back to
Nederland, back in 1994 for a 1700km bike tour, mostly the south of Holland
(Brabant) and parts of Belgium. Riding was always pleasant, routes easy to
find and amenities plentiful.
<neil0502@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1180538764.939720.103630@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 30, 8:18 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>
>> Careful there, Brickston. You do not want to rile Saint Edward the Great!
>
> If "rile" is a synonym for "impale," then I suspect you're wrong.
>
>> Is that asshole Bill Baka still around?
>
> He's been replaced by a much more obnoxious and banal troll: you,
> Eddie.
>
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Date: 30 May 2007 19:02:48
From: Grolch
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
"Grolch" <hjwilkeremovenospam@telus.net > wrote in message
news:Baj7i.63808$Xh3.8355@edtnps90...
> Well, as a dutch born (Boxtel, NB) immigrant to Canada. I remember well my
> early days in Richmond British Columbia. Richmond, a suburb of Vancouver
> is a river delta island thus all flat and surrounded by dikes. I suppose
> this is what may have attracted my parents. But I remember my mother going
> shopping on her Omafiets, with me, and my brother and sister on board. The
> groceries would hang off the handle bars. Pure elegance. I have been back
> to Nederland, back in 1994 for a 1700km bike tour, mostly the south of
> Holland (Brabant) and parts of Belgium. Riding was always pleasant, routes
> easy to find and amenities plentiful.
I remember too, running into a Canadian kid, well he was 23 or so. He worked
in a Youth Hostel in Antwerp, his racing bike stashed under his bunk. Seems
he went to Belgium to pursue his cycling carreer, maybe get sponsored, The
quote from him that I remember was, "Back in Canada, I was really something
special on a bike, fast, Over here, I'm just someone else who rides a bike"
>
>
>
> <neil0502@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1180538764.939720.103630@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 30, 8:18 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Careful there, Brickston. You do not want to rile Saint Edward the
>>> Great!
>>
>> If "rile" is a synonym for "impale," then I suspect you're wrong.
>>
>>> Is that asshole Bill Baka still around?
>>
>> He's been replaced by a much more obnoxious and banal troll: you,
>> Eddie.
>>
>
>
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Date: 30 May 2007 08:46:16
From: Olebiker
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On May 30, 7:38 am, catzz66 <catz...@threeletterservice.com > wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>
> It's great to see so many people using bikes in their normal routine.
Put that guy riding in his suit on a bike in Atlanta's hills in the
Summer. He wouldn't look so content.
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Date: 30 May 2007 13:01:08
From: Paul Myron Hobson
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
Olebiker wrote:
> On May 30, 7:38 am, catzz66 <catz...@threeletterservice.com> wrote:
>> landotter wrote:
>>> Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>> It's great to see so many people using bikes in their normal routine.
>
> Put that guy riding in his suit on a bike in Atlanta's hills in the
> Summer. He wouldn't look so content.
>
Pssh...More people commute around here than you realize.
\\paul
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Date: 30 May 2007 07:57:26
From:
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On May 29, 12:42 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>
> http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/
Beautiful.
We spent two weeks in Holland in August. It is, indeed, an incredibly
bicyclist-friendly country. Where there are separate bike trails
(that parallel the road), the bike trails have their own traffic
signals. Where the trails intersect the roads directly, the cyclist
has the right-of-way.
It needs to be said, though, that this Utopia is not readily
transferable to too many other places. The bulk of Holland is dead-a$
$ flat. The bikes can weigh whatever somebody chooses to make them
weigh and it will virtually never be an issue. This is a major factor
in why ridership is so nearly universal.
Family bike touring and camping are incredibly popular. Everywhere
you go, you see the cyclist routes clearly marked for the various
towns. Infrastructure (campgrounds) exists in abundance.
If only......
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Date: 30 May 2007 05:56:41
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On May 30, 6:38 am, catzz66 <catz...@threeletterservice.com > wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
> > these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
> > seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
>
> > Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>
> It's great to see so many people using bikes in their normal routine.
Indeed it is. That is what is lacking here in the US, where so many
cyclists fall either into the can't-afford-a-car/suspended license
camp or the racer-wannabe camp.
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Date: 30 May 2007 06:38:51
From: catzz66
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
landotter wrote:
> Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
> these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
> seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
>
> Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>
>
It's great to see so many people using bikes in their normal routine.
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Date: 30 May 2007 12:25:44
From: Colin Nelson
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
"catzz66" <catzz66@threeletterservice.com > wrote in message
news:5c560rF2tjairU1@mid.individual.net...
> landotter wrote:
> > Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
> > these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
> > seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
> >
> > Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
> >
> >
>
>
> It's great to see so many people using bikes in their normal routine.
More here :-http://www.awfulgood.com/doa-archives/000185.php
--
Colin N.
Lincolnshire is mostly flat ... But the wind is mostly in your face
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Date: 30 May 2007 12:42:05
From: Colin Nelson
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
"Colin Nelson" <colin.nelson2@ntlworld.com > wrote in message
news:c3e7i.14546$RP4.13952@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
>
> "catzz66" <catzz66@threeletterservice.com> wrote in message
> news:5c560rF2tjairU1@mid.individual.net...
> > landotter wrote:
> > > Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
> > > these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
> > > seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
> > >
> > > Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > It's great to see so many people using bikes in their normal routine.
>
> More here :-http://www.awfulgood.com/doa-archives/000185.php
Oops!
http://www.awfulgood.com/doa-archives/000185.php
>
> --
> Colin N.
>
> Lincolnshire is mostly flat ... But the wind is mostly in your face
>
>
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Date: 30 May 2007 03:57:41
From: limeylew@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On May 29, 2:42 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
> these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
> seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
>
> Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>
> http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/
Thanks for sharing. This is very interesting.
Lewis.
*****
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Date: 29 May 2007 22:25:17
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On May 29, 10:12 pm, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> Zoot Katz wrote:
> > ....
> > One thing he didn't mention that is quite obviously different from
> > San Francisco is the lack of obesity evident in the street scenes.
>
> That's because the bicycling done in these countries isn't a major
> factor in obesity rates.
>
> This page:>http://ruudvisser.wordpress.com/2006/12/04/planes-trains-automobiles-...
>
> -notes that the average bicyclist in the Netherlands covers something
> like 550 miles per year, or about two miles per day. How many calories
> do you burn pedaling at a casual pace for two miles a day? Not very many
> really.
>
1.5 miles per citizen per day. That includes elderly invalids,
infants, and car owners. I suspect the actual cyclist average is
closer to ten. Ten miles on an omafiets will certainly be very
beneficial to health.
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Date: 30 May 2007 09:30:06
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On 29 May 2007 22:25:17 -0700, landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
>On May 29, 10:12 pm, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com> wrote:
>> Zoot Katz wrote:
>> > ....
>> > One thing he didn't mention that is quite obviously different from
>> > San Francisco is the lack of obesity evident in the street scenes.
>>
>> That's because the bicycling done in these countries isn't a major
>> factor in obesity rates.
>>
>> This page:>http://ruudvisser.wordpress.com/2006/12/04/planes-trains-automobiles-...
>>
>> -notes that the average bicyclist in the Netherlands covers something
>> like 550 miles per year, or about two miles per day. How many calories
>> do you burn pedaling at a casual pace for two miles a day? Not very many
>> really.
>>
>
>1.5 miles per citizen per day. That includes elderly invalids,
>infants, and car owners. I suspect the actual cyclist average is
>closer to ten. Ten miles on an omafiets will certainly be very
>beneficial to health.
>
And the legs on the Dutch women are superb looking.
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Date: 30 May 2007 10:18:35
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
"R Brickston" <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ > wrote in message
news:0vgq539lu6t54b84vllevd9bcimme0btru@4ax.com...
[...]
> And the legs on the Dutch women are superb looking.
Careful there, Brickston. You do not want to rile Saint Edward the Great!
Is that asshole Bill Baka still around?
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 30 May 2007 22:56:04
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On Wed, 30 May 2007 10:18:35 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net >
wrote:
>
>"R Brickston" <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote in message
>news:0vgq539lu6t54b84vllevd9bcimme0btru@4ax.com...
>[...]
>> And the legs on the Dutch women are superb looking.
>
>Careful there, Brickston. You do not want to rile Saint Edward the Great!
>
>Is that asshole Bill Baka still around?
Hello, Edward. The Planet Baka Death Star was last seen orbiting
alt.mountain-bike.
>Regards,
>
>Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>aka
>Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
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Date: 29 May 2007 18:15:34
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
In article <1180476766.895271.274130@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
landotter <landotter@gmail.com > writes:
> I liked the responses at the bottom, especially the Dutch commenter
> that mentioned that kids there have a week of bike education to get a
> certificate, then periodic retraining. They pointed out that in the
> US, we often plop helmets on them, then teach them to ride on the
> wrong side of the road. Hilarious to see the Dutch perspective. They
> think American bike habits are appalling.
Here's a little more info on cycling in the Netherlands.
I think it gives a more realistic treatment than some
of the preconceptions we so often hear in North America.
http://www.aero.lr.tudelft.nl/~bvo/fiets/nlbybike.htm
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 29 May 2007 18:13:16
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On 29 May 2007 12:42:30 -0700, landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
>Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
>these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
>seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
He seemed a little confused about dynamo powered lights and serious
locks too.
One thing he didn't mention that is quite obviously different from
San Francisco is the lack of obesity evident in the street scenes.
--
zk
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Date: 29 May 2007 22:12:01
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
Zoot Katz wrote:
> ....
> One thing he didn't mention that is quite obviously different from
> San Francisco is the lack of obesity evident in the street scenes.
That's because the bicycling done in these countries isn't a major
factor in obesity rates.
This page:
> http://ruudvisser.wordpress.com/2006/12/04/planes-trains-automobiles-sort-of/
-notes that the average bicyclist in the Netherlands covers something
like 550 miles per year, or about two miles per day. How many calories
do you burn pedaling at a casual pace for two miles a day? Not very many
really.
------
One factor (I've read of) that is suspicious in US obesity rates is the
high amounts of corn products used in processed foods, as well as
livestock feed.
With the proposal for the large-scale adoption of ethanol as motor fuel,
it is speculated that the price of corn may rise so high that its food
uses are curtailed.
Here's to hoping.
Cheap gas and no more corn sweeteners!
It's a win-win situation.
I'll be able to go into anywhere and buy soda made with /real/ /actual/
/sugar/ in it again.....
~
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Date: 30 May 2007 11:09:58
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On Tue, 29 May 2007 22:12:01 -0500, DougC wrote:
> Zoot Katz wrote:
>> ....
>> One thing he didn't mention that is quite obviously different from
>> San Francisco is the lack of obesity evident in the street scenes.
>
> That's because the bicycling done in these countries isn't a major
> factor in obesity rates.
>
> This page:
>> http://ruudvisser.wordpress.com/2006/12/04/planes-trains-automobiles-sort-of/
> -notes that the average bicyclist in the Netherlands covers something
> like 550 miles per year, or about two miles per day. How many calories
> do you burn pedaling at a casual pace for two miles a day? Not very many
> really.
A lot more than when not moving at all. Europeans walk a lot more too, while
Americans hardly walk at all -- only to and from their cars.
Matt O.
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Date: 29 May 2007 22:55:39
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On 29 May 2007 12:42:30 -0700, landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
>Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
>these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
>seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
>
>Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>
>http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/
He makes a big deal about the huge bike chains and locks. Old
Amsterdam saying: If you yell out to a large group of cylists riding
by, "Hey, that's my bike!" about five guys will jump off of "their"
bikes and take off running.
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Date: 29 May 2007 15:12:46
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
On May 29, 4:51 pm, "Cathy Kearns" <cathy_kea...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> "landotter" <landot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1180467750.429924.215820@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...> Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
> > these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
> > seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
>
> > Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>
> >http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/
>
> Great pictures. Last summer we took a Baltic cruise vacation, starting in
> Stockholm and ending in Copenhagen. A few times at stops we took biking
> tours, and at the end, in Copenhagen, we rented bikes for a day and traveled
> around. Ring locks, no helmets, chain and skirt guards. I fell in love
> with the freedom of those types of bikes. In September I bought me one for
> my birthday:http://www.breezerbikes.com/bike_details.cfm?bikeType=town&frame=d&bi...
Yup, I had a clone of that bike myself for years. It got junky looking
pretty quick, but ran great--as doing half a dozen errands per day are
hell on a bike's finish--and with such a bike, you have no excuse to
not ride in in whatever you've got on.
A new bike shop opened up about 3/4 mile from my front door that's to
sell Electra Amsterdams. I'm really tempted to get one, except I'm
none too keen on the "feet forward" hooey. I might just have to put a
skirt guard on my fixed gear instead.
http://valleycyclingandfitness.com/itemdetails.cfm?id=487
(not my shop in the link)
I liked the responses at the bottom, especially the Dutch commenter
that mentioned that kids there have a week of bike education to get a
certificate, then periodic retraining. They pointed out that in the
US, we often plop helmets on them, then teach them to ride on the
wrong side of the road. Hilarious to see the Dutch perspective. They
think American bike habits are appalling.
|
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Date: 29 May 2007 21:51:17
From: Cathy Kearns
Subject: Re: Dutch bike culture, from an outsider's perspective
|
"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1180467750.429924.215820@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> Being a Scandinavian guy, it seems so odd that the guy who put up
> these pictures didn't know about what I consider the obvious. Never
> seen a skirt-guard? What a cloistered life to live. :^P
>
> Fun pics if you've not been to Holland:
>
> http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/
>
Great pictures. Last summer we took a Baltic cruise vacation, starting in
Stockholm and ending in Copenhagen. A few times at stops we took biking
tours, and at the end, in Copenhagen, we rented bikes for a day and traveled
around. Ring locks, no helmets, chain and skirt guards. I fell in love
with the freedom of those types of bikes. In September I bought me one for
my birthday:
http://www.breezerbikes.com/bike_details.cfm?bikeType=town&frame=d&bike=uptown
Yep, it has the chain guard, the ring lock, the hub generator lights. And
it's wonderful. I can, and do, go shopping, errand running, and to sporting
events on it in my skirt and heels. Yep, here near San Francisco on the
lower penninsula people do look surprised to see me, but I still love it.
The only down side is it doesn't have a skirt guard. And like the Dutch,
when I do pull out my road bike to go out for exercise I do put on the lycra
and helmet.
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