Even AP does it...

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Date: 14 Jan 2007 20:46:25
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Even AP does it...

Peddling...

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html

Bill "sigh" S.

Date: 16 Jan 2007 02:34:00
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

In article <SiNqh.34409$Gr2.28444@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net >,
Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net > writes:

> The American language (not real English) has
> been getting beat up rather badly as of late.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You can say that again.

One might even say it's been badly beaten up lately.
Or beat up, real bad.

Or it's just had the livin' daylights pounded the
hell out of it.

cheers,
Tom

--
I's a sort o' rustic chap, me was borned on Thakem.
There's fourteen more who're just like I, 'cuz 'er
knows 'ow to make 'em.

Date: 16 Jan 2007 02:00:15
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

In article <m36pq2pa38r4t5mv5na196gnq0f8ken2nb@4ax.com >,
Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com > writes:

>>Don'cha just hate it when people verb a noun?
>
> I think "bike" is an understandable and almost acceptable substitute
> for "ride", and vice versa.

I'm preferring to feel so unconstrained, muhself.

>>On the other hand, I do appreciate a good malapropism.
>>
> Yew wood.

I understand that's the preferred material for
the manufacture of Welsh longbows. Stuff about
heartwood squeezin', and sapwood stretchin'.
Or is 't t'other way 'rownd?

>>Hip-hop culture has creatively developed many nuanceful
>>expressions by mutating gram and syntax. I find it
>>rather interesting and refreshing, and sometimes even
>>artistic. Irregardless,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> ARRRRGHHH!!!

'O-reeble, i'n 't?

'N I t'ought I'd be taken t' task for "nuanceful".

Bloddy 'ell.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 16 Jan 2007 00:29:21
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

In article <45abd968$0$80066$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org writes:
> Roger Zoul writes:
>
>>>> Peddling...
>
>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html
>
>>> These are the same editors who let BS like:
>
>>> The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
>>> The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
>
>>> We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
>>> We'll have more on that at eleven.
>
>>> We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
>>> We've seen enough of these things.
>
>>> I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
>>> I spoke to a friend about this.
>
>> What's wrong with this one?
>
> The "of mine" is gratuitous verbiage.
>
> What other kind of friends do you have?

Well, there are Quakers, but I can't think of any
legitimate context in which they'd be owned.
As a proper noun, "Friends" really should be
capitalized.

I can think of some contexts where such possessives
could be applied: "my wife," "my landlady," "my nemesis."

If someone's wife, landlady and nemesis are one and the
same, and a Quaker as well, I'd say that person deserves
some liberal latitude of forgiveness, even for his misuse
of the English language.

Remember when people used to ~type~ messages?
Then, as computer technology advanced, we began to
"keyboard" instead. There was an interim period
when some technoid people would "input," or "input in."
Now, we "text". Some irresponsible people text while
driving.

Don'cha just hate it when people verb a noun?

On the other hand, I do appreciate a good malapropism.

Hip-hop culture has creatively developed many nuanceful
expressions by mutating gram and syntax. I find it
rather interesting and refreshing, and sometimes even
artistic. Irregardless, It would like to kill many an
immutably purist stick-in-the-mud. I guess that's what
separates-out the wheat from the goats.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 16 Jan 2007 17:21:13
From: nash
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

"Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1d2ioe.6rg.ln@bud.garden.local...
> In article <45abd968$0$80066$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org writes:
>> Roger Zoul writes:
>>
>>>>> Peddling...
>>
>>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html
>>
>>>> These are the same editors who let BS like:
>>
>>>> The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
>>>> The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
>>
>>>> We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
>>>> We'll have more on that at eleven.
>>
>>>> We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
>>>> We've seen enough of these things.
>>
>>>> I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
>>>> I spoke to a friend about this.
>>
>>> What's wrong with this one?
>>
>> The "of mine" is gratuitous verbiage.
>>
>> What other kind of friends do you have?
>
> Well, there are Quakers, but I can't think of any
> legitimate context in which they'd be owned.
> As a proper noun, "Friends" really should be
> capitalized.
>
> I can think of some contexts where such possessives
> could be applied: "my wife," "my landlady," "my nemesis."
>
> If someone's wife, landlady and nemesis are one and the
> same, and a Quaker as well, I'd say that person deserves
> some liberal latitude of forgiveness, even for his misuse
> of the English language.
>
> Remember when people used to ~type~ messages?
> Then, as computer technology advanced, we began to
> "keyboard" instead. There was an interim period
> when some technoid people would "input," or "input in."
> Now, we "text". Some irresponsible people text while
> driving.
>
> Don'cha just hate it when people verb a noun?
>
> On the other hand, I do appreciate a good malapropism.
>
> Hip-hop culture has creatively developed many nuanceful
> expressions by mutating gram and syntax. I find it
> rather interesting and refreshing, and sometimes even
> artistic. Irregardless, It would like to kill many an
> immutably purist stick-in-the-mud. I guess that's what
> separates-out the wheat from the goats.
>
>
> cheers,
> Tom
>
> --
> Nothing is safe from me.
> Above address is just a spam midden.
> I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Thanks for that TK. If it wasn't for you I think I would leave this ng.

Date: 16 Jan 2007 01:29:29
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:29:21 -0800, tkeats2005@hotmail.com (Tom
Keats) wrote:

>In article <45abd968$0$80066$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org writes:
>> Roger Zoul writes:
>>
>>>>> Peddling...
>>
>>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html
>>
>>>> These are the same editors who let BS like:
>>
>>>> The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
>>>> The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
>>
>>>> We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
>>>> We'll have more on that at eleven.
>>
>>>> We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
>>>> We've seen enough of these things.
>>
>>>> I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
>>>> I spoke to a friend about this.
>>
>>> What's wrong with this one?
>>
>> The "of mine" is gratuitous verbiage.
>>
>> What other kind of friends do you have?
>
>Well, there are Quakers, but I can't think of any
>legitimate context in which they'd be owned.
>As a proper noun, "Friends" really should be
>capitalized.
>
>I can think of some contexts where such possessives
>could be applied: "my wife," "my landlady," "my nemesis."
>
>If someone's wife, landlady and nemesis are one and the
>same, and a Quaker as well, I'd say that person deserves
>some liberal latitude of forgiveness, even for his misuse
>of the English language.
>
>Remember when people used to ~type~ messages?
>Then, as computer technology advanced, we began to
>"keyboard" instead. There was an interim period
>when some technoid people would "input," or "input in."
>Now, we "text". Some irresponsible people text while
>driving.
>
>Don'cha just hate it when people verb a noun?

I think "bike" is an understandable and almost acceptable substitute
for "ride", and vice versa.
>
>On the other hand, I do appreciate a good malapropism.
>
Yew wood.

>Hip-hop culture has creatively developed many nuanceful
>expressions by mutating gram and syntax. I find it
>rather interesting and refreshing, and sometimes even
>artistic. Irregardless,
^^^^^^^^^^^^

ARRRRGHHH!!!
--
zk

Date: 16 Jan 2007 20:09:20
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Zoot Katz? writes:

>> Hip-hop culture has creatively developed many nuanceful
>> expressions by mutating gram and syntax. I find it
>> rather interesting and refreshing, and sometimes even
>> artistic. Irregardless,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^

> ARRRRGHHH!!!

Yes, that should be "disirregardless."

Jobst Brandt

Date: 15 Jan 2007 06:33:18
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Peddling...
>
> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html
>
> Bill "sigh" S.

I'll buy that for a dollar!

Joseph

Date: 15 Jan 2007 06:32:01
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Bill Sornson writes:
>
> > Peddling...
>
> > http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html
>
> These are the same editors who let BS like:
>
> The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
> The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
>
> We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
> We'll have more on that at eleven.
>
> We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
> We've seen enough of these things.
>
> I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
> I spoke to a friend about this.
>
> Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge.
> Six people died when their car ran off the bridge.
> [one might imagine that the police shot them]
>
> The robbery took place while the residents were away.
> The burglary took place while the residents were away.
>
> The injured were laying on the roadway after the crash.
> The injured were lying on the road after the crash.
>
> ...
>
> It's a long list that grates on readers sensitivities if there are
> any. It's just edjumacation.
>
> Jobst Brandt

While we're on the subject of irritating things, I will take the time
to share my pet peeve.

I live in Norway, and here most of the TV shows and movies are English
or American with Norwegian subtitles. Someone clearly has the job of
translating shows and movies from English to Norwegian. Unfortunately
whoever this is doesn't seem to know a thing about English. I have the
irritating habit of not being able to ignore the subtitles, so I notice
all the glaring errors. Almost half the jokes are mistranslated, and
should a joke make some popular culture reference, forget it, it
probably won't even be recognized as a joke by the translators.

Not such a big deal, but these people presumably are the ones with a
better than average grasp of English, yet they continually make huge
mistakes. What about everyone with an even lesser grasp of English, say
some newspaper editor misreading an editorial in the NYT and then
forming a half-baked opinion that then gets taken as gospel by his
readers? Depressing.

Joseph

Date: 15 Jan 2007 15:43:46
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>> Bill Sornson writes:
>>
>>> Peddling...
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html
>> These are the same editors who let BS like:
>>
>> The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
>> The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
>>
>> We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
>> We'll have more on that at eleven.
>>
>> We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
>> We've seen enough of these things.
>>
>> I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
>> I spoke to a friend about this.
>>
>> Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge.
>> Six people died when their car ran off the bridge.
>> [one might imagine that the police shot them]
>>
>> The robbery took place while the residents were away.
>> The burglary took place while the residents were away.
>>
>> The injured were laying on the roadway after the crash.
>> The injured were lying on the road after the crash.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> It's a long list that grates on readers sensitivities if there are
>> any. It's just edjumacation.
>>
>> Jobst Brandt
>
> While we're on the subject of irritating things, I will take the time
> to share my pet peeve.
>
> I live in Norway, and here most of the TV shows and movies are English
> or American with Norwegian subtitles. Someone clearly has the job of
> translating shows and movies from English to Norwegian. Unfortunately
> whoever this is doesn't seem to know a thing about English. I have the
> irritating habit of not being able to ignore the subtitles, so I notice
> all the glaring errors. Almost half the jokes are mistranslated, and
> should a joke make some popular culture reference, forget it, it
> probably won't even be recognized as a joke by the translators.
>
> Not such a big deal, but these people presumably are the ones with a
> better than average grasp of English, yet they continually make huge
> mistakes. What about everyone with an even lesser grasp of English, say
> some newspaper editor misreading an editorial in the NYT and then
> forming a half-baked opinion that then gets taken as gospel by his
> readers? Depressing.
>
> Joseph
>
Maybe the subtitling gets farmed out to India, just like everything else
these days in the states. The American language (not real English) has
been getting beat up rather badly as of late. I don't know if Norway has
the Indian problem yet, as an Indian speaking both Punjab (native) and
English plus Norwegian sounds unlikely, but welcome to the 21st century
and cost cutting.
Actually, I would take it as kind of an insult to my country, like it
wasn't worth translating properly.
I have watched, here in the states, Clint Eastwood westerns that have
been dubbed with Spanish and I know the words, and even those get messed
up, sometimes badly. It seems lip syncing is more important than the
actual words.
Sorry state of affairs.
Bill Baka

Date: 15 Jan 2007 19:52:13
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Bill Baka writes:

> Maybe the subtitling gets farmed out to India, just like everything
> else these days in the states. The American language (not real
> English) has been getting beat up rather badly as of late. I don't
> know if Norway has the Indian problem yet, as an Indian speaking
> both Punjab (native) and English plus Norwegian sounds unlikely, but
> welcome to the 21st century and cost cutting.

Don't forget the difference between "like" and "as", as I said. The
word "as" is almost gone from the media, just as the words "effect"
and "affect" have turned into "impact" for greater effect. Having had
artillery training, I know what an impact area is and the sound made.

> Actually, I would take it as kind of an insult to my country, like it
> wasn't worth translating properly.

> I have watched, here in the states, Clint Eastwood westerns that
> have been dubbed with Spanish and I know the words, and even those
> get messed up, sometimes badly. It seems lip syncing is more
> important than the actual words.

> Sorry state of affairs.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 16 Jan 2007 09:35:43
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Bill Baka writes:
>
>> Maybe the subtitling gets farmed out to India, just like (AS) everything
>> else these days in the states. The American language (not real
>> English) has been getting beat up rather badly as (LIKE);>) of late. I don't
>> know if Norway has the Indian problem yet, as an Indian speaking
>> both Punjab (native) and English plus Norwegian sounds unlikely, but
>> welcome to the 21st century and cost cutting.
>
> Don't forget the difference between "like" and "as", as I said. The
> word "as" is almost gone from the media, just as the words "effect"
> and "affect" have turned into "impact" for greater effect.

Effect and affect have never had a effect on me nor affected me.
That's 4th grade stuff.

Having had
> artillery training, I know what an impact area is and the sound made.
>
>> Actually, I would take it as kind of an insult to my country, like it
>> wasn't worth translating properly.
>
>
> Jobst Brandt

Date: 15 Jan 2007 07:57:10
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Bill Sornson writes:

> Peddling...

> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html

These are the same editors who let BS like:

The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).

We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
We'll have more on that at eleven.

We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
We've seen enough of these things.

I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
I spoke to a friend about this.

Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge.
Six people died when their car ran off the bridge.
[one might imagine that the police shot them]

The robbery took place while the residents were away.
The burglary took place while the residents were away.

The injured were laying on the roadway after the crash.
The injured were lying on the road after the crash.

...

It's a long list that grates on readers sensitivities if there are
any. It's just edjumacation.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 15 Jan 2007 15:46:58
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Date: 15 Jan 2007 22:03:23
From: Kristian M Zoerhoff
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

In article <SlNqh.34412$Gr2.10401@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net >,
bbaka@comcast.net says...
>
> Come on.
> You 'know' the news people are not hired for literacy but rather camera
> 'presence' and reporters and copy writers for newspapers are deadline
> driven. 5 minutes for a proofread by another writer, can't do it, might
> miss the deadline.
> Hurry, publish something, anything.

AP writers aren't expected to turn in fully correct stories, AIUI. The editors
are supposed to take care of that, so one wishes to cast aspersions, cast them
on the editors.

Now, if only the editors at the (suburban Chicago) Daily Herald would refrain
from editing before that first cup of coffee, my blood pressure might drop a
point or two.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com
(_)/ (_)

Date: 16 Jan 2007 09:38:05
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
> In article <SlNqh.34412$Gr2.10401@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>,
> bbaka@comcast.net says...
>> Come on.
>> You 'know' the news people are not hired for literacy but rather camera
>> 'presence' and reporters and copy writers for newspapers are deadline
>> driven. 5 minutes for a proofread by another writer, can't do it, might
>> miss the deadline.
>> Hurry, publish something, anything.
>
> AP writers aren't expected to turn in fully correct stories, AIUI. The editors
> are supposed to take care of that, so one wishes to cast aspersions, cast them
> on the editors.
>
> Now, if only the editors at the (suburban Chicago) Daily Herald would refrain
> from editing before that first cup of coffee, my blood pressure might drop a
> point or two.
>
My dad used to work for the Tribune and he had his horror stories, too.
Bill Baka

Date: 15 Jan 2007 16:33:38
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Bill Baka wrote:
:: jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
::: Bill Sornson writes:
:::
:::: Peddling...
:::
:::: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html
:::
::: These are the same editors who let BS like:
:::
::: The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
::: The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
:::
::: We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
::: We'll have more on that at eleven.
:::
::: We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
::: We've seen enough of these things.
:::
::: I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
::: I spoke to a friend about this.
:::
::: Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge.
::: Six people died when their car ran off the bridge.
::: [one might imagine that the police shot them]
:::
::: The robbery took place while the residents were away.
::: The burglary took place while the residents were away.
:::
::: The injured were laying on the roadway after the crash.
::: The injured were lying on the road after the crash.
:::
::: ...
:::
::: It's a long list that grates on readers sensitivities if there are
::: any. It's just edjumacation.
:::
::: Jobst Brandt
::
:: Come on.
:: You 'know' the news people are not hired for literacy but rather
:: camera 'presence' and reporters and copy writers for newspapers are
:: deadline driven. 5 minutes for a proofread by another writer, can't
:: do it, might miss the deadline.
:: Hurry, publish something, anything.
:: Modern life.
:: Bill Baka

Too true!

Date: 15 Jan 2007 08:36:55
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Date: 15 Jan 2007 19:43:36
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Roger Zoul writes:

>>> Peddling...

>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html

>> These are the same editors who let BS like:

>> The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
>> The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).

>> We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
>> We'll have more on that at eleven.

>> We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
>> We've seen enough of these things.

>> I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
>> I spoke to a friend about this.

> What's wrong with this one?

The "of mine" is gratuitous verbiage.

What other kind of friends do you have? My friends are mine.
Redundancy abounds.

There is no ketplace for this product.
There is no ket for this product.

We have a local road formerly known as Pescadero Road that is
gradually changing to Pescadero Creek Road as street signs are
replaced. The longer appellation sounds more impressive.

That you don't notice is a sign of language dilution in the media
that has become adopted as our own.

>> Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge.
>> Six people died when their car ran off the bridge.
>> [one might imagine that the police shot them]

>> The robbery took place while the residents were away.
>> The burglary took place while the residents were away.

>> The injured were laying on the roadway after the crash.
>> The injured were lying on the road after the crash.

>> ...

>> It's a long list that grates on readers sensitivities if there are
>> any. It's just edjumacation.

Big diamond shaped temporary warning signs announce:

Road Work Ahead... where elese?
Be Prepared to Stop... was: Stop Ahead
this preceded by the redundant Flagger Ahead

Watch for Rocks on Pavement... was: Slide Area

However, we no longer have land slides, they are more dramatically mud
slides. What other lkind is there? Even rock slides are initiated by
rain and softening of soil.

Road signs have been replaced by icons in Europe where language
diffferences made that more urgent. The result is better in any
language. However, our road signs are becomming wordier and less
useful.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 15 Jan 2007 16:31:07
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
:: Roger Zoul writes:
::
::::: Peddling...
::
::::: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html
::
:::: These are the same editors who let BS like:
::
:::: The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
:::: The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
::
:::: We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
:::: We'll have more on that at eleven.
::
:::: We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
:::: We've seen enough of these things.
::
:::: I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
:::: I spoke to a friend about this.
::
::: What's wrong with this one?
::
:: The "of mine" is gratuitous verbiage.
::
:: What other kind of friends do you have? My friends are mine.
:: Redundancy abounds.
::
:: There is no ketplace for this product.
:: There is no ket for this product.
::
:: We have a local road formerly known as Pescadero Road that is
:: gradually changing to Pescadero Creek Road as street signs are
:: replaced. The longer appellation sounds more impressive.
::
:: That you don't notice is a sign of language dilution in the media
:: that has become adopted as our own.

Actually, I do notice. But as usual, things have to be done with care for
the point to be made effectively.

::
:::: Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge.
:::: Six people died when their car ran off the bridge.
:::: [one might imagine that the police shot them]
::
:::: The robbery took place while the residents were away.
:::: The burglary took place while the residents were away.
::
:::: The injured were laying on the roadway after the crash.
:::: The injured were lying on the road after the crash.
::
:::: ...
::
:::: It's a long list that grates on readers sensitivities if there are
:::: any. It's just edjumacation.
::
:: Big diamond shaped temporary warning signs announce:
::
:: Road Work Ahead... where elese?
:: Be Prepared to Stop... was: Stop Ahead
:: this preceded by the redundant Flagger Ahead
::

Stop Ahead and Flagger Ahead don't mean the same thing.

:: Watch for Rocks on Pavement... was: Slide Area
::
:: However, we no longer have land slides, they are more dramatically
:: mud slides. What other lkind is there? Even rock slides are
:: initiated by rain and softening of soil.
::
:: Road signs have been replaced by icons in Europe where language
:: diffferences made that more urgent. The result is better in any
:: language. However, our road signs are becomming wordier and less
:: useful.

Agreed.

Date: 15 Jan 2007 16:24:26
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
:: Roger Zoul writes:
::
::::: Peddling...
::
::::: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html
::
:::: These are the same editors who let BS like:
::
:::: The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
:::: The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
::
:::: We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
:::: We'll have more on that at eleven.
::
:::: We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
:::: We've seen enough of these things.
::
:::: I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
:::: I spoke to a friend about this.
::
::: What's wrong with this one?
::
:: The "of mine" is gratuitous verbiage.

I agree. However, you screwed up the order in the line about the tanker.

::
:: What other kind of friends do you have? My friends are mine.
:: Redundancy abounds.
::
:: There is no ketplace for this product.
:: There is no ket for this product.
::
:: We have a local road formerly known as Pescadero Road that is
:: gradually changing to Pescadero Creek Road as street signs are
:: replaced. The longer appellation sounds more impressive.
::
:: That you don't notice is a sign of language dilution in the media
:: that has become adopted as our own.
::
:::: Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge.
:::: Six people died when their car ran off the bridge.
:::: [one might imagine that the police shot them]
::
:::: The robbery took place while the residents were away.
:::: The burglary took place while the residents were away.
::
:::: The injured were laying on the roadway after the crash.
:::: The injured were lying on the road after the crash.
::
:::: ...
::
:::: It's a long list that grates on readers sensitivities if there are
:::: any. It's just edjumacation.
::
:: Big diamond shaped temporary warning signs announce:
::
:: Road Work Ahead... where elese?
:: Be Prepared to Stop... was: Stop Ahead
:: this preceded by the redundant Flagger Ahead
::
:: Watch for Rocks on Pavement... was: Slide Area
::
:: However, we no longer have land slides, they are more dramatically
:: mud slides. What other lkind is there? Even rock slides are
:: initiated by rain and softening of soil.
::
:: Road signs have been replaced by icons in Europe where language
:: diffferences made that more urgent. The result is better in any
:: language. However, our road signs are becomming wordier and less
:: useful.
::
:: Jobst Brandt

Date: 15 Jan 2007 21:39:05
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Roger Zoul writes:

>>>> Peddling...

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html

>>> These are the same editors who let BS like:

>>> The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
>>> The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).

>>> We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
>>> We'll have more on that at eleven.

>>> We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
>>> We've seen enough of these things.

>>> I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
>>> I spoke to a friend about this.

>>> What's wrong with this one?

>> The "of mine" is gratuitous verbiage.

> I agree. However, you screwed up the order in the line about the
> tanker.

It is either a tanker or a tank truck, not both. Where is your
complaint, the roadway or the tanker truck?

Jobst Brandt

Date: 15 Jan 2007 15:27:10
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
{much snippage}

> It is either a tanker or a tank truck, not both.

Do you really think this and your other examples are comparable nits to a
(presumably) professional AP writer/reporter not knowing the difference
between 'pedal' and 'peddle'?

Bill "sorry I brought it up" S.

Date: 15 Jan 2007 22:23:00
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Bill Sornson wrote:
:: jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
:: {much snippage}
::
::: It is either a tanker or a tank truck, not both.
::
:: Do you really think this and your other examples are comparable nits
:: to a (presumably) professional AP writer/reporter not knowing the
:: difference between 'pedal' and 'peddle'?
::
:: Bill "sorry I brought it up" S.

I think many of them definitely are. Perhaps the one you mention above
isn't, though. :)

Date: 16 Jan 2007 04:50:45
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Roger Zoul writes:

>>> It is either a tanker or a tank truck, not both.

>> Do you really think this and your other examples are comparable
>> nits to a (presumably) professional AP writer/reporter not knowing
>> the difference between 'pedal' and 'peddle'?

>> Bill "sorry I brought it up" S.

> I think many of them definitely are. Perhaps the one you mention
> above isn't, though.

The origin of these guffaws is that these folks like to sound like
insiders by using jargon from the environment about which they are
reporting without understanding trucker talk or railroad talk, both of
which are best left to the industry with plain English used for
reporting.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 15 Jan 2007 17:03:14
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
:: Roger Zoul writes:
::
:::::: Peddling...
::
:: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html
::
::::: These are the same editors who let BS like:
::
::::: The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
::::: The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
::
::::: We'll have more on that in the eleven o'clock hour.
::::: We'll have more on that at eleven.
::
::::: We've seen enough of these kinds of things.
::::: We've seen enough of these things.
::
::::: I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
::::: I spoke to a friend about this.
::
::::: What's wrong with this one?
::
:::: The "of mine" is gratuitous verbiage.
::
::: I agree. However, you screwed up the order in the line about the
::: tanker.
::
:: It is either a tanker or a tank truck, not both. Where is your
:: complaint, the roadway or the tanker truck?
::

:)

Neither!

:The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).

Because if this error, the question this becomes, is the correct line first
or second? Of course, using "and" when one means "an" is another of those
blunders we see sometimes.

Date: 15 Jan 2007 21:47:46
From: Kristian M Zoerhoff
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

In article <45abf479$0$80052$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org says...
>
> It is either a tanker or a tank truck, not both. Where is your
> complaint, the roadway or the tanker truck?

He's pointing out that your "correct" second entry reads:

>>> The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
------------------------------^

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com
(_)/ (_)

Date: 15 Jan 2007 21:50:51
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Kristian M Zoerhoff writes:

>> It is either a tanker or a tank truck, not both. Where is your
>> complaint, the roadway or the tanker truck?

> He's pointing out that your "correct" second entry reads:

>>>> The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
> ------------------------------^

Arggh, the spell checker doesn't find that!

Jobst Brandt

Date: 15 Jan 2007 17:04:03
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
:: Kristian M Zoerhoff writes:
::
:::: It is either a tanker or a tank truck, not both. Where is your
:::: complaint, the roadway or the tanker truck?
::
::: He's pointing out that your "correct" second entry reads:
::
:::::: The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
::: ------------------------------^
::
:: Arggh, the spell checker doesn't find that!
::
:: Jobst Brandt

Editing is not so simple all the time, no?

Date: 15 Jan 2007 22:47:15
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Roger Zoul writes:

>>>> It is either a tanker or a tank truck, not both. Where is your
>>>> complaint, the roadway or the tanker truck?

>>> He's pointing out that your "correct" second entry reads:

>>>> The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
>>> --------------------------^

>> Arggh, the spell checker doesn't find that!

> Editing is not so simple all the time, no?

Spelling is one aspect but content is the serious one and I'm talking
about content. Typos are easily found by fastidious readers but
content is in the editor's domain and we don't seem to have ones who
know the difference. For instance, I don't think the use of like and
as is known by these people who let "like I said" sail through along
with "these kinds of things" aka "these things" or "this kind of
thing" but never "kinds".

Jobst Brandt

Date: 15 Jan 2007 18:28:30
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
:: Roger Zoul writes:
::
:::::: It is either a tanker or a tank truck, not both. Where is your
:::::: complaint, the roadway or the tanker truck?
::
::::: He's pointing out that your "correct" second entry reads:
::
:::::: The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).
:::::: --------------------------^
::
:::: Arggh, the spell checker doesn't find that!
::
::: Editing is not so simple all the time, no?
::
:: Spelling is one aspect but content is the serious one and I'm talking
:: about content. Typos are easily found by fastidious readers but
:: content is in the editor's domain and we don't seem to have ones who
:: know the difference. For instance, I don't think the use of like and
:: as is known by these people who let "like I said" sail through along
:: with "these kinds of things" aka "these things" or "this kind of
:: thing" but never "kinds".
::
:: Jobst Brandt

I bet you eat like a pig! :)

Date: 15 Jan 2007 15:48:57
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

On 15 Jan 2007 19:43:36 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:

>Even rock slides are initiated by
>rain and softening of soil.

Maybe in California. Road cuts through rock face can have rock slides
precipitated by other causes, such as frost and other temperature
changes,in areas where there is pretty much only rock and the weather
is dry. Seeing the results can have you trying to drive while looking
up at the rock face, like that will somehow save you if a car-sized
piece of rock comes down the side.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 15 Jan 2007 21:33:11
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Curtis L. Russell <curtis@md-bicycling.org > writes:

>> Even rock slides are initiated by rain and softening of soil.

> Maybe in California. Road cuts through rock face can have rock slides
> precipitated by other causes, such as frost and other temperature
> changes,in areas where there is pretty much only rock and the weather
> is dry. Seeing the results can have you trying to drive while looking
> up at the rock face, like that will somehow save you if a car-sized
> piece of rock comes down the side.

I take it you think "mud slide" is the appropriate term since you
take issue with my claim that it is a form of grandstanding.

If there is no mud, what was freezing?

Although Rock fall can be initiated by wind a land slide rarely is.
You might find the word definition below appropriate for many
wreck.bike responses:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/red%20herring

...second part of #2.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 15 Jan 2007 13:38:01
From: Paul Hobson
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>> I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
>> I spoke to a friend about this.

Roger Zoul wrote:
> What's wrong with this one?

My guess: If you call someone a friend, they're assumed to be your
friend unless stated otherwise.

>> Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge.
>> Six people died when their car ran off the bridge.
>> [one might imagine that the police shot them]
>>
>> The robbery took place while the residents were away.
>> The burglary took place while the residents were away.

<http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=robbery&word2=burglary >
HTH, Jobst.

\\paul

Date: 15 Jan 2007 16:20:10
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Paul Hobson wrote:
::: jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
:::: I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
:::: I spoke to a friend about this.
::
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: What's wrong with this one?
::
:: My guess: If you call someone a friend, they're assumed to be your
:: friend unless stated otherwise.

Correct. However, I think it comes down to order: which line is correct
(bottom?) and which isn't (top?):

The roadway was blocked by an overturned tanker truck.
The road was blocked by and overturned tanker (or tank truck).

::
:::: Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge.
:::: Six people died when their car ran off the bridge.
:::: [one might imagine that the police shot them]
::::
:::: The robbery took place while the residents were away.
:::: The burglary took place while the residents were away.
::
::
<http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=robbery&word2=burglary >
:: HTH, Jobst.
::
:: \\paul

Date: 15 Jan 2007 19:57:46
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Paul Hobson <gtg611a@mail.gatech.edu > writes:

>>> I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
>>> I spoke to a friend about this.

>> What's wrong with this one?

> My guess: If you call someone a friend, they're assumed to be your
> friend unless stated otherwise.

>>> Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge.
>>> Six people died when their car ran off the bridge.
>>> [one might imagine that the police shot them]

>>> The robbery took place while the residents were away.
>>> The burglary took place while the residents were away.

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=robbery&word2=burglary

I don't get it. What's this got to do with understanding the
difference between robbery and burglary?

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/burglary
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/robbery

Jobst Brandt

Date: 15 Jan 2007 21:36:08
From: Paul Hobson
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Paul Hobson <gtg611a@mail.gatech.edu> writes:
>
>>>> I spoke to a friend of mine about this.
>>>> I spoke to a friend about this.
>
>>> What's wrong with this one?
>
>> My guess: If you call someone a friend, they're assumed to be your
>> friend unless stated otherwise.
>
>>>> Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge.
>>>> Six people died when their car ran off the bridge.
>>>> [one might imagine that the police shot them]
>
>>>> The robbery took place while the residents were away.
>>>> The burglary took place while the residents were away.
>
> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=robbery&word2=burglary
>
> I don't get it. What's this got to do with understanding the
> difference between robbery and burglary?
>
> http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/burglary
> http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/robbery

I point[1] was, is that the two, in common usage[2], the two have become
synonyms with the average Joe preferring /robbery/ b/c it's easier to
spell[3].

[1] I'm being overly brief b/c my left hand is currently in a cast due
to a slight "disagreement" I had with a Chevy Avalanche[4].
[2] Language does and should change over time. This type of thing
really doesn't bother me too much.
[3] Just a guess
[4] No typing with one hand jokes please ;)

Date: 16 Jan 2007 04:45:52
From:
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Paul Hobson writes:

>>>>> I spoke to a friend of mine about this. I spoke to a friend
>>>>> about this.

>>>> What's wrong with this one?

>>> My guess: If you call someone a friend, they're assumed to be your
>>> friend unless stated otherwise.

>>>>> Six people were killed when their car ran off the bridge. Six
>>>>> people died when their car ran off the bridge. [one might
>>>>> imagine that the police shot them]

>>>>> The robbery took place while the residents were away. The
>>>>> burglary took place while the residents were away.

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=robbery&word2=burglary

>> I don't get it. What's this got to do with understanding the
>> difference between robbery and burglary?

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/burglary
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/robbery

One is in the presence of the owner with threat of violence or death,
a far more serious crime than burglary, that of taking something that
is not yours. That is a significant difference and to try to merge
the two is a major misunderstanding of language, similar to the
difference between kill and die, or for that matter lie and lay.

> I point[1] was, is that the two, in common usage[2], the two have
> become synonyms with the average Joe preferring /robbery/ b/c it's
> easier to spell[3].

That's an excuse I hadn't hear before. More power to the illiterate!
Is this one of the things that occurs with GWB as president?

Nucular!

> [1] I'm being overly brief b/c my left hand is currently in a cast
> due to a slight "disagreement" I had with a Chevy Avalanche[4]. [2]
> Language does and should change over time. This type of thing
> really doesn't bother me too much. [3] Just a guess [4] No typing
> with one hand jokes please ;)

That's fine, I suppose that event spared us from a longer defense of
language misuse.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 16 Jan 2007 18:56:38
From: Paul Hobson
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Paul Hobson writes:
>> I point[1] was, is that the two, in common usage[2], the two have
>> become synonyms with the average Joe preferring /robbery/ b/c it's
>> easier to spell[3].
>
> That's an excuse I hadn't hear before. More power to the illiterate!
> Is this one of the things that occurs with GWB as president?
>
> Nucular!

Wow, that came out of left field [no pun intended].

>> [1] I'm being overly brief b/c my left hand is currently in a cast
>> due to a slight "disagreement" I had with a Chevy Avalanche[4]. [2]
>> Language does and should change over time. This type of thing
>> really doesn't bother me too much. [3] Just a guess [4] No typing
>> with one hand jokes please ;)
>
> That's fine, I suppose that event spared us from a longer defense of
> language misuse.

I bet you're a blast at parties. Tell me this: imagine you're having a
conversation with a stranger in public (bus stop, airport, etc.) and he
poses the question, "Where you stay?" How do you (Jobst Brandt) respond?

(a) I'm from California
(b) huh?
(c) Pardon my unsolicited advice, but you'd better communicate your
ideas if you spoke in "proper" English. In this instance, might I
recommend, "Where do you reside?"
(d) other

Date: 16 Jan 2007 17:42:09
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

Paul Hobson wrote:
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:

>> That's an excuse I hadn't hear before. More power to the illiterate!
>> Is this one of the things that occurs with GWB as president?
>>
>> Nucular!
>
> Wow, that came out of left field [no pun intended].

I thought he was quoting Jimmy Carter. (You know, the guy who actually
worked in the field.)

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucular):

"Usage by politicians
U.S. Presidents Dwight D. Eisenhower, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and George
W. Bush have all used this pronunciation.[3][4][5]

Jimmy Carter in particular had served as an officer on a United States Navy
experimental nuclear subine,[6] and would have been well exposed to both
pronunciations."

Date: 14 Jan 2007 21:04:59
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Even AP does it...

In article <45ab0724$0$4878$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,
"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me > writes:
> Peddling...
>
> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070114/D8MKTCTG0.html
>
> Bill "sigh" S.

So much fore litterassy.

cheers (but y'know what they mean anyway,)
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca