Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

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Date: 25 Mar 2007 22:40:39
From: Don Wiss
Subject: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

Besides the Bromptom and Dahons, what folding bicycles have fenders? I'd
like one for travel, and it needs to be able to be used on dirt and sand
roads. Plus, when it rains, I don't want to have to stop. Rental bikes
almost never have fenders, and I've ruined many clothes during my travels
because of this.

Since this isn't going to be a commuter bike, it need not be small. It just
has to fold, so I can take in onto small planes. So bigger wheels would be
better.

I like this one: http://dahon.com/intl/glidep8.htm
Though it is on the heavy side. I do need lights when I travel to the
Caribbean, as it gets dark rather early. But bringing along battery
operated ones have worked fine.

Don <www.donwiss.com > (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Date: 10 Apr 2007 20:13:55
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

In article <1176258023.827270.187350@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com >,
"jbollyn@gmail.com" <jbollyn@gmail.com > writes:

>> Gaiters are an essential part of my own rain gear, at
>> least for shorter hops while wearing street clothes,
>> in cooler, non-shorts weather.
>>
>> I got them on the cheap ($15.oo CDN) from a military
>> surplus/discount store. Those, supplemented with my
>> homemade toeclip covers (lengths of inner tube rubber
>> stretched over the toeclips and held in place with
>> zip ties,) my shoes remain dry, yet breathable and cool.
>> And the shins of my jeans stay nice & dry, right up to
>> the knee. My $25 rain cape and $? helmet cover take
>> care of the top part of me.
>>
>> I don't care about stylish, I just wanna stay dry.
>>
>> Anyways, my system works pretty good.

[snip]

> Tom,
>
> You are right. I am sure there are cheaper ways to achieve my ends (a
> comfortable all-weather ride). I *start*at the top $, if I can afford
> it. Most people look for the cheapest possible solution, and only
> spend more if their first choice was not satisfactory.

I really don't think money has much to do with it.
Stuff either works, or it doesn't (or falls somewhere
in between,) no matter how much or how little it costs.

The trick to doing it the cheap way is to ask oneself:
"How can I comfortably ride under these adverse conditions
/right now/, with what I've got?" As far as I'm concerned,
if someone figures out a way to ride when others would be
stymied, I say: Good on them!

The more expensive rain pants & jacket approach has a number
of advantages over the rain cape approach. For one thing, it's
difficult if not impossible to do hand signals from under a
rain cape, so that restricts a rider from streets & roads with
higher volumes of traffic. I enjoy the ability to geographically
get around that problem, but not everybody does.

We all have our unique, individual approaches to problem-solving,
and I think it's great that there's such a variegity of them.
We contribute what we've figured out to the pool, and take what
other people have figured out, that might work for us, too.
I find it beautifully communal.

So, it's about what works for /you/. You're right, too.

But I concur with your appreciation for gaiters. Especially
when wearing trousers. Shins & cuffs of trousers seem to
bear the brunt.

> I will undoubtedly die broke - J.

Some say it's a sin to die rich.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 11 Apr 2007 14:51:40
From: David Damerell
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

Quoting Tom Keats <tkeats2005@hotmail.com >:
>The more expensive rain pants & jacket approach has a number
>of advantages over the rain cape approach. For one thing, it's
>difficult if not impossible to do hand signals from under a
>rain cape,

"Not impossible" is right. Ie, possible.

>so that restricts a rider from streets & roads with
>higher volumes of traffic.

Nonsense.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk > Kill the tomato!
Today is Monday, April.

Date: 11 Apr 2007 15:57:28
From: Ziggy
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On 11 Apr 2007 14:51:40 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
<damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk > wrote:

>Quoting Tom Keats <tkeats2005@hotmail.com>:
>>The more expensive rain pants & jacket approach has a number
>>of advantages over the rain cape approach. For one thing, it's
>>difficult if not impossible to do hand signals from under a
>>rain cape,
>
>"Not impossible" is right. Ie, possible.

His use of the English language seems to be a little too subtle for you.

The use of litotes to indicate something does not indicate a black v white
converse.

>>so that restricts a rider from streets & roads with
>>higher volumes of traffic.
>
>Nonsense.

That sort of response adds nothing to the debate. If you were an acknowledged
authority on the subject it might mean something, but you are just a USENET
poster who makes a great many mistakes in both fact and logic in what he posts.

Date: 10 Apr 2007 19:20:23
From: jbollyn@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On Apr 10, 8:25 pm, tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article <1176252528.447919.280...@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> "jbol...@gmail.com" <jbol...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 10, 4:09 pm, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu> wrote:
> >> In rec.bicycles.misc jbol...@gmail.com <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > I use my BFhttp://orion.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/bike1.jpgfor
> >> > commuting in Chicago all year round. Instead of a rear fender, I
> >> > always have my Topeak rear rack and trunk bag (trunk bag not shown in
> >> > the pic). This is very effective at protecting your clothing. For the
> >> > front wheel, I wear gaitershttp://www2.llbean.com/product/43528.htm.
> >> > The gaiters are very packable when the weather is nice - J.
>
> >> Oooh, nice. I've been looking for a pair of gaiters to supplement my
> >> rain boots when it's really coming down. However, I think I'm going to
> >> keep looking as $60 is a bit more than I was planning on spending...
>
> >> --
> >> Dane Buson - sigd...@unixbigots.org
> >> How much does it cost to entice a dope-smoking UNIX system guru to Dayton?
> >> -- Brian Boyle, UNIX/WORLD's First Annual Salary Survey
>
> > Hey Dane,
>
> > Your comment struck a nerve (not your fault)...
>
> > I run into your question/comment all the time, with all the stuff I
> > buy.
>
> > When I am riding to work (8 miles in the morning, 8 miles home at
> > night), all I care about is, if my feet are wet and cold. My Gore-Tex
> > system is not cheap, but it is 100% effective. I wear Gore_Tex head to
> > toe, in bad weather. My gaiters are *absolutely essential* for all wet
> > weather (snow/rain), and any temps less than 40 degrees F. Plus, they
> > keep my pants out of the chain. And, I think they are really stylish.
> > But you must know, I do not follow the latest trends. I expect to set
> > my own trends. And if they don't follow immediately, well, I hope they
> > catch up - J.
>
> Gaiters are an essential part of my own rain gear, at
> least for shorter hops while wearing street clothes,
> in cooler, non-shorts weather.
>
> I got them on the cheap ($15.oo CDN) from a military
> surplus/discount store. Those, supplemented with my
> homemade toeclip covers (lengths of inner tube rubber
> stretched over the toeclips and held in place with
> zip ties,) my shoes remain dry, yet breathable and cool.
> And the shins of my jeans stay nice & dry, right up to
> the knee. My $25 rain cape and $? helmet cover take
> care of the top part of me.
>
> I don't care about stylish, I just wanna stay dry.
>
> Anyways, my system works pretty good.
>
> cheers,
> Tom
>
> --
> Nothing is safe from me.
> Above address is just a spam midden.
> I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Tom,

You are right. I am sure there are cheaper ways to achieve my ends (a
comfortable all-weather ride). I *start*at the top $, if I can afford
it. Most people look for the cheapest possible solution, and only
spend more if their first choice was not satisfactory.

I will undoubtedly die broke - J.

Date: 10 Apr 2007 18:25:57
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

In article <1176252528.447919.280180@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
"jbollyn@gmail.com" <jbollyn@gmail.com > writes:
> On Apr 10, 4:09 pm, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu> wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc jbol...@gmail.com <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > I use my BFhttp://orion.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/bike1.jpgfor
>> > commuting in Chicago all year round. Instead of a rear fender, I
>> > always have my Topeak rear rack and trunk bag (trunk bag not shown in
>> > the pic). This is very effective at protecting your clothing. For the
>> > front wheel, I wear gaitershttp://www2.llbean.com/product/43528.htm.
>> > The gaiters are very packable when the weather is nice - J.
>>
>> Oooh, nice. I've been looking for a pair of gaiters to supplement my
>> rain boots when it's really coming down. However, I think I'm going to
>> keep looking as $60 is a bit more than I was planning on spending...
>>
>> --
>> Dane Buson - sigd...@unixbigots.org
>> How much does it cost to entice a dope-smoking UNIX system guru to Dayton?
>> -- Brian Boyle, UNIX/WORLD's First Annual Salary Survey
>
> Hey Dane,
>
> Your comment struck a nerve (not your fault)...
>
> I run into your question/comment all the time, with all the stuff I
> buy.
>
> When I am riding to work (8 miles in the morning, 8 miles home at
> night), all I care about is, if my feet are wet and cold. My Gore-Tex
> system is not cheap, but it is 100% effective. I wear Gore_Tex head to
> toe, in bad weather. My gaiters are *absolutely essential* for all wet
> weather (snow/rain), and any temps less than 40 degrees F. Plus, they
> keep my pants out of the chain. And, I think they are really stylish.
> But you must know, I do not follow the latest trends. I expect to set
> my own trends. And if they don't follow immediately, well, I hope they
> catch up - J.

Gaiters are an essential part of my own rain gear, at
least for shorter hops while wearing street clothes,
in cooler, non-shorts weather.

I got them on the cheap ($15.oo CDN) from a military
surplus/discount store. Those, supplemented with my
homemade toeclip covers (lengths of inner tube rubber
stretched over the toeclips and held in place with
zip ties,) my shoes remain dry, yet breathable and cool.
And the shins of my jeans stay nice & dry, right up to
the knee. My $25 rain cape and $? helmet cover take
care of the top part of me.

I don't care about stylish, I just wanna stay dry.

Anyways, my system works pretty good.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 10 Apr 2007 17:48:48
From: jbollyn@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On Apr 10, 4:09 pm, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu > wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc jbol...@gmail.com <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I use my BFhttp://orion.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/bike1.jpgfor
> > commuting in Chicago all year round. Instead of a rear fender, I
> > always have my Topeak rear rack and trunk bag (trunk bag not shown in
> > the pic). This is very effective at protecting your clothing. For the
> > front wheel, I wear gaitershttp://www2.llbean.com/product/43528.htm.
> > The gaiters are very packable when the weather is nice - J.
>
> Oooh, nice. I've been looking for a pair of gaiters to supplement my
> rain boots when it's really coming down. However, I think I'm going to
> keep looking as $60 is a bit more than I was planning on spending...
>
> --
> Dane Buson - sigd...@unixbigots.org
> How much does it cost to entice a dope-smoking UNIX system guru to Dayton?
> -- Brian Boyle, UNIX/WORLD's First Annual Salary Survey

Hey Dane,

Your comment struck a nerve (not your fault)...

I run into your question/comment all the time, with all the stuff I
buy.

When I am riding to work (8 miles in the morning, 8 miles home at
night), all I care about is, if my feet are wet and cold. My Gore-Tex
system is not cheap, but it is 100% effective. I wear Gore_Tex head to
toe, in bad weather. My gaiters are *absolutely essential* for all wet
weather (snow/rain), and any temps less than 40 degrees F. Plus, they
keep my pants out of the chain. And, I think they are really stylish.
But you must know, I do not follow the latest trends. I expect to set
my own trends. And if they don't follow immediately, well, I hope they
catch up - J.

Date: 11 Apr 2007 09:45:15
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

In rec.bicycles.misc jbollyn@gmail.com <jbollyn@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Apr 10, 4:09 pm, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Oooh, nice. I've been looking for a pair of gaiters to supplement my
>> rain boots when it's really coming down. However, I think I'm going to
>> keep looking as $60 is a bit more than I was planning on spending...
>
> Your comment struck a nerve (not your fault)...
>
> I run into your question/comment all the time, with all the stuff I
> buy.

Well, really for your application they're not extravagant at all. In
fact they're almost certainly cheaper than my solution of fenders +
boots + cheaper gaiters. Your problem space is different than mine
however.

> When I am riding to work (8 miles in the morning, 8 miles home at
> night), all I care about is, if my feet are wet and cold. My Gore-Tex
> system is not cheap, but it is 100% effective. I wear Gore_Tex head to
> toe, in bad weather. My gaiters are *absolutely essential* for all wet
> weather (snow/rain), and any temps less than 40 degrees F. Plus, they
> keep my pants out of the chain. And, I think they are really stylish.

Well, the reason is not that I consider $60 expensive for your
application. It's rather that I am cheap. Also, as I mentioned I only
need the gaiters when it's precipitating quadrapeds of the canid and
felid persuasion. I already have a pair of very water-resistant winter
cycling boots and fenders. The only time I need gaiters is when the
rain is coming down so hard it insinuates itself through the top of my
boots.

Since I would only be using them about 10% of the winter, I don't want
to spend much on them, as my current solution is *almost* wholely
satisfactory. I doubt they would fair any better than my current setup
with the full immersion test.

> But you must know, I do not follow the latest trends. I expect to set
> my own trends. And if they don't follow immediately, well, I hope they
> catch up

Meh, I'm not much of a fashion victim as regards cycling. Part of that
is of course my habit of destroying gear and equipment. It's not good
to become too attached to ephemeral things.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
The problem with engineers is that they tend to cheat in order to get results.
The problem with mathematicians is that they tend to work on toy problems in order to get results.
The problem with program verifiers is that they tend to cheat at toy problems in order to get results

Date: 08 Apr 2007 15:29:33
From: jbollyn@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On 25, 9:40 pm, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com > wrote:
> Besides the Bromptom and Dahons, what folding bicycles have fenders? I'd
> like one for travel, and it needs to be able to be used on dirt and sand
> roads. Plus, when it rains, I don't want to have to stop. Rental bikes
> almost never have fenders, and I've ruined many clothes during my travels
> because of this.
>
> Since this isn't going to be a commuter bike, it need not be small. It just
> has to fold, so I can take in onto small planes. So bigger wheels would be
> better.
>
> I like this one:http://dahon.com/intl/glidep8.htm
> Though it is on the heavy side. I do need lights when I travel to the
> Caribbean, as it gets dark rather early. But bringing along battery
> operated ones have worked fine.
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

I use my BF http://orion.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/bike1.jpg for
commuting in Chicago all year round. Instead of a rear fender, I
always have my Topeak rear rack and trunk bag (trunk bag not shown in
the pic). This is very effective at protecting your clothing. For the
front wheel, I wear gaiters http://www2.llbean.com/product/43528.htm .
The gaiters are very packable when the weather is nice - J.

Date: 10 Apr 2007 14:09:27
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

In rec.bicycles.misc jbollyn@gmail.com <jbollyn@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> I use my BF http://orion.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/bike1.jpg for
> commuting in Chicago all year round. Instead of a rear fender, I
> always have my Topeak rear rack and trunk bag (trunk bag not shown in
> the pic). This is very effective at protecting your clothing. For the
> front wheel, I wear gaiters http://www2.llbean.com/product/43528.htm .
> The gaiters are very packable when the weather is nice - J.

Oooh, nice. I've been looking for a pair of gaiters to supplement my
rain boots when it's really coming down. However, I think I'm going to
keep looking as $60 is a bit more than I was planning on spending...

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
How much does it cost to entice a dope-smoking UNIX system guru to Dayton?
-- Brian Boyle, UNIX/WORLD's First Annual Salary Survey

Date: 11 Apr 2007 17:54:14
From: Phil Cook
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

Dane Buson wrote:

>In rec.bicycles.misc jbollyn@gmail.com <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I use my BF http://orion.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/bike1.jpg for
>> commuting in Chicago all year round. Instead of a rear fender, I
>> always have my Topeak rear rack and trunk bag (trunk bag not shown in
>> the pic). This is very effective at protecting your clothing. For the
>> front wheel, I wear gaiters http://www2.llbean.com/product/43528.htm .
>> The gaiters are very packable when the weather is nice - J.
>
>Oooh, nice. I've been looking for a pair of gaiters to supplement my
>rain boots when it's really coming down. However, I think I'm going to
>keep looking as $60 is a bit more than I was planning on spending...

Then go up the navigation a little way. Others are available for 19
bucks from L.L.Bean...
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Date: 11 Apr 2007 12:54:19
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

In rec.bicycles.misc Phil Cook <phil@p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>>
>>Oooh, nice. I've been looking for a pair of gaiters to supplement my
>>rain boots when it's really coming down. However, I think I'm going to
>>keep looking as $60 is a bit more than I was planning on spending...
>
> Then go up the navigation a little way. Others are available for 19
> bucks from L.L.Bean...

So close and yet so far. I was about to put one in the shopping cart.
Size Large, out of stock. Oh well, I'll check them in the fall. I
don't really need them until then.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
Alliance, n.:
In international politics, the union of two thieves who have
their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot
separately plunder a third.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

Date: 26 Mar 2007 13:07:55
From: Will
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On 25, 9:40 pm, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com > wrote:
> Besides the Bromptom and Dahons, what folding bicycles have fenders? I'd
> like one for travel, and it needs to be able to be used on dirt and sand
> roads. Plus, when it rains, I don't want to have to stop.

Here's a good one. Check out the cross model... It has the nipple
braze-ons for fenders. Choice of steel or titanium...

http://www.ritcheylogic.com/web/Ritchey~Logic/Ritchey~Site/web/EN/main/20789.html

Date: 26 Mar 2007 10:00:52
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

Don Wiss wrote:
> Besides the Bromptom and Dahons, what folding bicycles have fenders? I'd
> like one for travel, and it needs to be able to be used on dirt and sand
> roads. Plus, when it rains, I don't want to have to stop. Rental bikes
> almost never have fenders, and I've ruined many clothes during my travels
> because of this.
>
> Since this isn't going to be a commuter bike, it need not be small. It just
> has to fold, so I can take in onto small planes. So bigger wheels would be
> better.
>
> I like this one: http://dahon.com/intl/glidep8.htm
> Though it is on the heavy side. I do need lights when I travel to the
> Caribbean, as it gets dark rather early. But bringing along battery
> operated ones have worked fine.
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

I have a Montague Urban, which can accept fenders, and which can be
outfitted with pretty wide tires. I've used it as a "hybrid" and on trails.

I don't see the weight on their newer models, nor is it clear if they
accept fenders.

"http://www.montagueco.com/productbikes.html"

Date: 26 Mar 2007 08:08:47
From:
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On 26, 10:53 am, Curtis L. Russell <cur...@md-bicycling.org >
wrote:
> On 25 2007 19:51:33 -0700, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> >However, I wasn't impressed by the design, from what I could tell from
> >the online images. And other Friday owners confirmed some of my
> >fears, regarding the lack of fender stays and less-than-thorough
> >coverage, etc.
>
> Use them on my Bike Friday as it was my commuter (in a small sense -
> the parking lot was more than city blocks from where I worked). They
> are tough and aren't bent around as much tire, so to speak, so they
> have worked well over the last four or so years. I'd recommend them,
> as long as you know fenders don't make a wet day dry.
>

The specific complaints I heard (and had wondered about) were that the
front fender stops at the fork. I was told the front wheel throws a
dirty spray up and forward, which blows back onto him and his bike.
Also, the rear fender stops well above the chainstays, and allows crap
to sling down onto the bottom bracket area, chain, and feet. Then
there's the sideways movement of the cantilevered front fender.

Have you not had those problems, or do you not mind them?

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 26 Mar 2007 14:22:34
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

> The specific complaints I heard (and had wondered about) were that the
> front fender stops at the fork. I was told the front wheel throws a
> dirty spray up and forward, which blows back onto him and his bike.
> Also, the rear fender stops well above the chainstays, and allows crap
> to sling down onto the bottom bracket area, chain, and feet. Then
> there's the sideways movement of the cantilevered front fender.
>
> Have you not had those problems, or do you not mind them?
>
> - Frank Krygowski

I haven't had the problems of the spray at all. And, just the one front
fender wiggles around a bit. Maybe I need some duct tape....or J.B.Weld.

Pat in TX
>

Date: 26 Mar 2007 12:45:42
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On 26 2007 08:08:47 -0700, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:

>Have you not had those problems, or do you not mind them?

None of them were significant IMO. The front fender I don't notice
because it would get straightened out every time I pulled it from the
back of my car, if there were an issue. Never had the wheel spray
issue, at least not to the point of it being a problem. I was not
trying to make good time - I was only riding about 8 and 1/2 blocks,
and probably riding in the 14-15 mph range.

The other qualifier is that part of DC goes into full flood mode very
quickly (around p and 16th) and when it rains noticeably, you are very
soon riding through deep back-ups from the drains. That brings down
your speed and you worry more about water coming in over the tops of
your shoes than your fenders...

(That area really reminds me of that old Bill Cosby 'Noah and the
Flood' routine about letting it rain only so long and wait for the
sewers to back up - we had some severe floor damage on two occasions.)

Most of my other use of the folder is on vacation on really nice days,
so it isn't an issue there.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 26 Mar 2007 13:40:00
From: Paul Rudin
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

ziggy317@nospam.ntl.com (Ziggy) writes:

> On Mon, 26 2007 09:17:33 +0100, Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>Paul Rudin wrote on 26/03/2007 08:54 +0100:
>>> Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> Tony Raven wrote on 26/03/2007 08:21 +0100:
>>>>> frkrygow@gmail.com wrote on 26/03/2007 03:51 +0100:
>>>>>> With that caveat, I'd recommend getting the bike you like best, and
>>>>>> adding Freddy Fenders to it.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Are they available in the UK? Google didn't help.
>>>>>
>>>> Sorry about the multiple posts - my SMTP server kept saying it hadn't
>>>> been sent so I kept trying.
>>>
>>> You send news via smtp?
>>>
>>
>>That's what it tells me on the posting error messages. Vagaries of the
>>server I post through, for reasons I don't quite understand, even though
>>it is set up as an NNTP account on TB.
>
> SMTP *is* the way USENET news is sent from the end user.
>

Hmm - I realise this is getting a bit off topic, but rfc 997 seems to
think that nntp is sufficient for posting articles. I don't have any
particular expertise in this area, but quick googling suggests that
what you say is not correct.

Date: 26 Mar 2007 12:59:46
From: Ziggy
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On Mon, 26 2007 13:40:00 +0100, Paul Rudin <paul.rudin@ntlworld.com > wrote:

>Hmm - I realise this is getting a bit off topic, but rfc 997 seems to
>think that nntp is sufficient for posting articles. I don't have any
>particular expertise in this area, but quick googling suggests that
>what you say is not correct.
>

You are quite correct.

It was a long time ago when I wrote some newsreader software and in that
*particular* case articles were posted by smtp.

Apologies for the incorrect information.

Date: 26 Mar 2007 10:49:53
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

Don Wiss wrote:
> Besides the Bromptom and Dahons, what folding bicycles have fenders?

Errrr, any you put them on... mudguards are available in lots of sizes
and few bikes in the general utility class don't have room.

Beyond that, they're certainly a standard factory option on the Birdy
and Mezzo ranges, and most others I've seen, or so ISTM.

> like one for travel, and it needs to be able to be used on dirt and sand
> roads. Plus, when it rains, I don't want to have to stop.
> Since this isn't going to be a commuter bike, it need not be small. It just
> has to fold, so I can take in onto small planes. So bigger wheels would be
> better.

If it just needs to pack down rather than do it really fast, look at
Airnimals and Bike Fridays, which will take mudguards as a standard
option. Moultons too. Small wheels are still much easier to pack than
big ones, and don't compromise a bike nearly as much as popular myth
suggests (especially when combined with good suspension), and are
certainly okay on dirt roads. You do want to make sure your tyre
selection is up to the soft stuff though.

> Though it is on the heavy side. I do need lights when I travel to the
> Caribbean, as it gets dark rather early. But bringing along battery
> operated ones have worked fine.

Now the Schmidt SON is available for narrow spacings there's no reason
not to have good dynamo lighting.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 26 Mar 2007 08:54:13
From: Paul Rudin
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.invalid > writes:

> Tony Raven wrote on 26/03/2007 08:21 +0100:
>> frkrygow@gmail.com wrote on 26/03/2007 03:51 +0100:
>>>
>>> With that caveat, I'd recommend getting the bike you like best, and
>>> adding Freddy Fenders to it.
>>>
>>
>> Are they available in the UK? Google didn't help.
>>
>
> Sorry about the multiple posts - my SMTP server kept saying it hadn't
> been sent so I kept trying.

You send news via smtp?

Date: 26 Mar 2007 09:17:33
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

Paul Rudin wrote on 26/03/2007 08:54 +0100:
> Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.invalid> writes:
>
>> Tony Raven wrote on 26/03/2007 08:21 +0100:
>>> frkrygow@gmail.com wrote on 26/03/2007 03:51 +0100:
>>>> With that caveat, I'd recommend getting the bike you like best, and
>>>> adding Freddy Fenders to it.
>>>>
>>> Are they available in the UK? Google didn't help.
>>>
>> Sorry about the multiple posts - my SMTP server kept saying it hadn't
>> been sent so I kept trying.
>
> You send news via smtp?
>

That's what it tells me on the posting error messages. Vagaries of the
server I post through, for reasons I don't quite understand, even though
it is set up as an NNTP account on TB.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Date: 26 Mar 2007 12:16:48
From: Ziggy
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On Mon, 26 2007 09:17:33 +0100, Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.invalid >
wrote:

>Paul Rudin wrote on 26/03/2007 08:54 +0100:
>> Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> Tony Raven wrote on 26/03/2007 08:21 +0100:
>>>> frkrygow@gmail.com wrote on 26/03/2007 03:51 +0100:
>>>>> With that caveat, I'd recommend getting the bike you like best, and
>>>>> adding Freddy Fenders to it.
>>>>>
>>>> Are they available in the UK? Google didn't help.
>>>>
>>> Sorry about the multiple posts - my SMTP server kept saying it hadn't
>>> been sent so I kept trying.
>>
>> You send news via smtp?
>>
>
>That's what it tells me on the posting error messages. Vagaries of the
>server I post through, for reasons I don't quite understand, even though
>it is set up as an NNTP account on TB.

SMTP *is* the way USENET news is sent from the end user.

There was no point in devising a different protocol for outgoing news as SMTP
was perfectly satisfactory. Obviously disseminating USENET news required a quite
different protocol (NNTP).

SMTP = Simple Mail Transport Protocol
NNTP = Network News Transport Protocol

Date: 26 Mar 2007 23:54:32
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

in message <4607b8cc.4485187@news.individual.NET >, Ziggy
('ziggy317@nospam.ntl.com') wrote:

> On Mon, 26 2007 09:17:33 +0100, Tony Raven
> <junk@raven-family.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Paul Rudin wrote on 26/03/2007 08:54 +0100:
>>> Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> Tony Raven wrote on 26/03/2007 08:21 +0100:
>>>>> frkrygow@gmail.com wrote on 26/03/2007 03:51 +0100:
>>>>>> With that caveat, I'd recommend getting the bike you like best, and
>>>>>> adding Freddy Fenders to it.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Are they available in the UK? Google didn't help.
>>>>>
>>>> Sorry about the multiple posts - my SMTP server kept saying it hadn't
>>>> been sent so I kept trying.
>>>
>>> You send news via smtp?
>>>
>>
>>That's what it tells me on the posting error messages. Vagaries of the
>>server I post through, for reasons I don't quite understand, even though
>>it is set up as an NNTP account on TB.
>
> SMTP *is* the way USENET news is sent from the end user.

Err... no it isn't, and never was. UUCP in the distant past, NNTP now. See
RFC 977, section 3.10.1. The message format is as defined in RFC 850,
which references RFC 822, which is mail format, but NNTP sending is very
different from SMTP sending (as you'd expect as the two protocols do
different things).

With NNTP you send POST; you hope that the server sends 340; if it does you
send the message, followed by a line comprising just a full stop; you hope
the server sends 240.

With SMTP you send MAIL FROM:<user@address >; you hope the server sends 250
OK; you send RCPT TO:<user@address >; you hope the server sends 250 OK; you
may repeat the RCPT TO message several times with different 'to'
addresses; you send DATA; you hope the server sends 354; you send the
message, followed by a line comprising just a full stop; you hope the
server sends 250 OK.

I can still (just) send a mail message by typing raw SMTP over a telnet
session; I don't think I've ever tried to inject a Usenet message by
typing raw NNTP, but I've seen it done.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'Victories are not solutions.'
;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much

Date: 26 Mar 2007 13:00:49
From: Ziggy
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On Mon, 26 2007 12:16:48 GMT, ziggy317@nospam.ntl.com (Ziggy) wrote:

THIS BELOW IS INCORRECT.

My apologies.

It applied to a particular situation some years ago and is NOT the general case.

>
>SMTP *is* the way USENET news is sent from the end user.
>
>There was no point in devising a different protocol for outgoing news as SMTP
>was perfectly satisfactory. Obviously disseminating USENET news required a quite
>different protocol (NNTP).
>
>SMTP = Simple Mail Transport Protocol
>NNTP = Network News Transport Protocol
>

Date: 26 Mar 2007 13:44:12
From: Anthony Jones
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

Ziggy wrote:
> SMTP *is* the way USENET news is sent from the end user.

I'm pretty sure you're incorrect.

Anthony

Date: 25 Mar 2007 19:51:33
From:
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On 25, 10:40 pm, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com > wrote:
> Besides the Bromptom and Dahons, what folding bicycles have fenders? I'd
> like one for travel, and it needs to be able to be used on dirt and sand
> roads. Plus, when it rains, I don't want to have to stop. Rental bikes
> almost never have fenders, and I've ruined many clothes during my travels
> because of this.
>
> Since this isn't going to be a commuter bike, it need not be small. It just
> has to fold, so I can take in onto small planes. So bigger wheels would be
> better.
>
> I like this one:http://dahon.com/intl/glidep8.htm
> Though it is on the heavy side. I do need lights when I travel to the
> Caribbean, as it gets dark rather early. But bringing along battery
> operated ones have worked fine.
>

My wife and I have matching Bike Friday New World Tourists. They
don't come stock with fenders, but they are an option.

However, I wasn't impressed by the design, from what I could tell from
the online images. And other Friday owners confirmed some of my
fears, regarding the lack of fender stays and less-than-thorough
coverage, etc.

So I just put Planet Bike's Freddy Fenders on the bikes. They're
available to fit 20" wheels. I've used them on other bikes and found
them to be reliable.

My only complaint: This year's fender model features a friction
collet attachment between the stays and the fenders, to allow the
front fender to pull loose if it swallows a stick. But the plastic
collet nuts are much wider than the standard arrangement. They
protrude inward toward the tire, and on today's rough-road city test
ride, they sometimes vibrate side-to-side enough to squeal against the
tire. Now I wish I'd left the front stays longer.

With that caveat, I'd recommend getting the bike you like best, and
adding Freddy Fenders to it.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 26 Mar 2007 10:53:53
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

On 25 2007 19:51:33 -0700, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:

>
>However, I wasn't impressed by the design, from what I could tell from
>the online images. And other Friday owners confirmed some of my
>fears, regarding the lack of fender stays and less-than-thorough
>coverage, etc.

Use them on my Bike Friday as it was my commuter (in a small sense -
the parking lot was more than city blocks from where I worked). They
are tough and aren't bent around as much tire, so to speak, so they
have worked well over the last four or so years. I'd recommend them,
as long as you know fenders don't make a wet day dry.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 26 Mar 2007 08:52:32
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

> My wife and I have matching Bike Friday New World Tourists. They
> don't come stock with fenders, but they are an option.
>
> However, I wasn't impressed by the design, from what I could tell from
> the online images. And other Friday owners confirmed some of my
> fears, regarding the lack of fender stays and less-than-thorough
> coverage, etc.

We have two Bike Fridays also. Their fenders are easy to put on and coverage
is good. One bike's fenders work like a charm; the other bike's front fender
is squirelly. It tends to vibrate slightly sideways. I ride along and every
so often have to stick my toe out and nudge it back to center. I can't find
any way to make it stay centered. Coverage, however, is adequate if it would
just stay put!

>
> So I just put Planet Bike's Freddy Fenders on the bikes. They're
> available to fit 20" wheels. I've used them on other bikes and found
> them to be reliable.

Thanks for this recommendation. I'll look into it.

Date: 26 Mar 2007 08:21:01
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

frkrygow@gmail.com wrote on 26/03/2007 03:51 +0100:
>
> With that caveat, I'd recommend getting the bike you like best, and
> adding Freddy Fenders to it.
>

Are they available in the UK? Google didn't help.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Date: 26 Mar 2007 08:27:31
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

Tony Raven wrote on 26/03/2007 08:21 +0100:
> frkrygow@gmail.com wrote on 26/03/2007 03:51 +0100:
>>
>> With that caveat, I'd recommend getting the bike you like best, and
>> adding Freddy Fenders to it.
>>
>
> Are they available in the UK? Google didn't help.
>

Sorry about the multiple posts - my SMTP server kept saying it hadn't
been sent so I kept trying.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Date: 26 Mar 2007 08:20:38
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

Date: 26 Mar 2007 08:20:24
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?

Date: 26 Mar 2007 08:19:58
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Folding bicycles with fenders/mud guards ?