| |
Main
Date: 20 Sep 2006 19:53:10
From: Elisa Francesca Roselli
Subject: French Idea: Velobus
|
I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
newsgroup.
The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind of
bicycle convoy, routing through the residences of all the kids to pick
them up as a schoolbus would, and accompanied by volunteer adults
(parents or teachers) to round up the packlines, stop the traffic in
appropriate places, mind the kids and keep everything orderly and safe.
The kids learn to ride to school in a safe and convivial manner.
There's also a variation called a "Pedibus" which goes on foot.
The kids interviewed for the Velobus were saying it was really fun and
got them to school faster than public transport or their harassed
parents in cars. Of course it saved gas and money. The accompanying
adults volunteered on a rotational basis, thus freeing up the other
parents from chugging their kids to school before and after work.
Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
EFR
Ile de France
|
|
| |
Date: 23 Sep 2006 12:44:15
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
n5hsr wrote:
> "Elisa Francesca Roselli" <nospam@free.fr> wrote in message
> news:45118007$0$22498$626a54ce@news.free.fr...
> >I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
> >newsgroup.
> >
> > The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
> > means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind of
> > bicycle convoy, routing through the residences of all the kids to pick
> > them up as a schoolbus would, and accompanied by volunteer adults (parents
> > or teachers) to round up the packlines, stop the traffic in appropriate
> > places, mind the kids and keep everything orderly and safe. The kids learn
> > to ride to school in a safe and convivial manner.
> >
> > There's also a variation called a "Pedibus" which goes on foot.
> >
> > The kids interviewed for the Velobus were saying it was really fun and got
> > them to school faster than public transport or their harassed parents in
> > cars. Of course it saved gas and money. The accompanying adults
> > volunteered on a rotational basis, thus freeing up the other parents from
> > chugging their kids to school before and after work.
> >
> > Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
> >
> > EFR
> > Ile de France
>
> We walked to school on our own when I was younger. True, there were a lot
> of other kids going the same way at nearly the same time, but there were
> also lots of adults about. There were also adults in the houses along the
> way. This was back before we saw child molesters on every corner.
>
> Charles of Schaumburg
Isn't one (1) motor vehicle (with a gross weight of at least 2 tons)
per child the way children get to school in Schaumburg?
--
Tom "Former suburban Chicagoland resident" Sherman - Here, not there.
|
| |
Date: 23 Sep 2006 13:38:07
From: ian henden
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
"Elisa Francesca Roselli" <nospam@free.fr > wrote in message
news:45118007$0$22498$626a54ce@news.free.fr...
>I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
>newsgroup.
>
> The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
> means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind of
> bicycle convoy, routing through the residences of all the kids to pick
> them up as a schoolbus would, and accompanied by volunteer adults (parents
> or teachers) to round up the packlines, stop the traffic in appropriate
> places, mind the kids and keep everything orderly and safe. The kids learn
> to ride to school in a safe and convivial manner.
>
> There's also a variation called a "Pedibus" which goes on foot.
>
> The kids interviewed for the Velobus were saying it was really fun and got
> them to school faster than public transport or their harassed parents in
> cars. Of course it saved gas and money. The accompanying adults
> volunteered on a rotational basis, thus freeing up the other parents from
> chugging their kids to school before and after work.
>
> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>
Feasible, provided the appropriate risk assessments had been carried out,
all potential accompanying adults had been CRB checked, appropriate
insurance obtained, and police permission to hold processions obtained.
|
| | |
Date: 26 Sep 2006 11:12:47
From: Daniel Barlow
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
ian henden wrote:
> "Elisa Francesca Roselli" <nospam@free.fr> wrote in message
> news:45118007$0$22498$626a54ce@news.free.fr...
>> Cool, eh? Do they have [the velobus] in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>>
> Feasible, provided the appropriate risk assessments had been carried out,
> all potential accompanying adults had been CRB checked, appropriate
> insurance obtained, and police permission to hold processions obtained.
Tell me, on what grounds is police permission necessary? It doesn't
sound like it would be a notifiable procession according to the Public
Order Act 1986 definition (and even then, it would only require police
notification, not permission)
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Sep 2006 15:11:15
From: ian henden
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
"Daniel Barlow" <dan@coruskate.net > wrote in message
news:1159265567.22056.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
> ian henden wrote:
>> "Elisa Francesca Roselli" <nospam@free.fr> wrote in message
>> news:45118007$0$22498$626a54ce@news.free.fr...
>>> Cool, eh? Do they have [the velobus] in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>>>
>> Feasible, provided the appropriate risk assessments had been carried out,
>> all potential accompanying adults had been CRB checked, appropriate
>> insurance obtained, and police permission to hold processions obtained.
>
> Tell me, on what grounds is police permission necessary? It doesn't
> sound like it would be a notifiable procession according to the Public
> Order Act 1986 definition (and even then, it would only require police
> notification, not permission)
>
I do admit it was a bit tongue-in-cheek.... but neither would it surprise me
if such permission WAS required. Authority does want to control
*everything*.
And the first rule seems to be.... if the people are happy doing this
activity... STOP IT!! (e..g. conkers at school; a church choir going round
a village singing (had to be scrapped, insurance!), a general "Killjoy is
here" mentality. )
Sad, innit.
|
| | |
Date: 23 Sep 2006 22:14:23
From: John B
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
ian henden wrote:
> "Elisa Francesca Roselli" <nospam@free.fr> wrote in message
> news:45118007$0$22498$626a54ce@news.free.fr...
> >I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
> >newsgroup.
> >
> > The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
> > means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind of
> > bicycle convoy, routing through the residences of all the kids to pick
> > them up as a schoolbus would, and accompanied by volunteer adults (parents
> > or teachers) to round up the packlines, stop the traffic in appropriate
> > places, mind the kids and keep everything orderly and safe. The kids learn
> > to ride to school in a safe and convivial manner.
> >
> > Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
> >
> Feasible, provided the appropriate risk assessments had been carried out,
> all potential accompanying adults had been CRB checked, appropriate
> insurance obtained, and police permission to hold processions obtained.
Or a couple of parents get together and ride to school with their kids and some
neighbours.
Best keep the busybodies out, eh ;-)
John B
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Sep 2006 21:27:45
From: ian henden
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
"John B" <nothing@nowhere.com > wrote in message
news:4515A3AF.F1B8D03@nowhere.com...
>
>
> ian henden wrote:
>
>> "Elisa Francesca Roselli" <nospam@free.fr> wrote in message
>> news:45118007$0$22498$626a54ce@news.free.fr...
>> >I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
>> >newsgroup.
>> >
>> > The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
>> > means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind
>> > of
>> > bicycle convoy, routing through the residences of all the kids to pick
>> > them up as a schoolbus would, and accompanied by volunteer adults
>> > (parents
>> > or teachers) to round up the packlines, stop the traffic in appropriate
>> > places, mind the kids and keep everything orderly and safe. The kids
>> > learn
>> > to ride to school in a safe and convivial manner.
>> >
>> > Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>> >
>> Feasible, provided the appropriate risk assessments had been carried out,
>> all potential accompanying adults had been CRB checked, appropriate
>> insurance obtained, and police permission to hold processions obtained.
>
> Or a couple of parents get together and ride to school with their kids and
> some
> neighbours.
>
> Best keep the busybodies out, eh ;-)
>
Couldn't agree more. But if the idea takes off, you can bet your last 5p
that the busibodies WILL get their snouts in .... :o(
|
| |
Date: 22 Sep 2006 01:33:26
From: Neil Williams
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
David tin wrote:
> And the hill in question is a 400m 1 in 10 (though steeper at the top
> than the bottom) which goes straight onto a main road.
>
> I'd be concerned taking my kids down it on a bike, let alone a class
> full of hyper kids with bikes and brakes of unknown provenance and
> condition.
Cycle to the top and push down?
I can see your point from an ease-of-organisation standpoint, though.
Neil
|
| |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 08:29:13
From: John Kane
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
David tin wrote:
> Tony Raven wrote:
> > Neil Williams wrote on 21/09/2006 11:48 +0100:
> > >
> > > Typical risk-avoidance. Bicycles are fitted with brakes, are they not?
> > >
> >
> > Yes, FSVO brakes.
>
> And the hill in question is a 400m 1 in 10 (though steeper at the top
> than the bottom) which goes straight onto a main road.
>
> I'd be concerned taking my kids down it on a bike, let alone a class
> full of hyper kids with bikes and brakes of unknown provenance and
> condition.
>
> ..d
I'd be worried about taking myself down it.:) Is there any reasonable
detour that might add 5 minutes onto the ride but have better
gradients?
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
|
| |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 08:20:33
From: David Martin
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Tony Raven wrote:
> Neil Williams wrote on 21/09/2006 11:48 +0100:
> >
> > Typical risk-avoidance. Bicycles are fitted with brakes, are they not?
> >
>
> Yes, FSVO brakes.
And the hill in question is a 400m 1 in 10 (though steeper at the top
than the bottom) which goes straight onto a main road.
I'd be concerned taking my kids down it on a bike, let alone a class
full of hyper kids with bikes and brakes of unknown provenance and
condition.
..d
|
| | |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 19:17:11
From: Tom Crispin
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
On 21 Sep 2006 08:20:33 -0700, "David tin"
<tin-family@blueyonder.co.uk > wrote:
>
>Tony Raven wrote:
>> Neil Williams wrote on 21/09/2006 11:48 +0100:
>> >
>> > Typical risk-avoidance. Bicycles are fitted with brakes, are they not?
>> >
>>
>> Yes, FSVO brakes.
>
>And the hill in question is a 400m 1 in 10 (though steeper at the top
>than the bottom) which goes straight onto a main road.
So similar to the hill in Greenwich Park, 45m of descent over 400m,
and ends in a locked gate until 4pm.
School: TQ393760
Pool: TQ373773
Hill: TQ390772
However, I'd probably not take them that way, using the Ravensbourne
cycle path instead.
>I'd be concerned taking my kids down it on a bike, let alone a class
>full of hyper kids with bikes and brakes of unknown provenance and
>condition.
>
>..d
|
| |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 07:00:43
From: n5hsr
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
"Elisa Francesca Roselli" <nospam@free.fr > wrote in message
news:45118007$0$22498$626a54ce@news.free.fr...
>I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
>newsgroup.
>
> The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
> means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind of
> bicycle convoy, routing through the residences of all the kids to pick
> them up as a schoolbus would, and accompanied by volunteer adults (parents
> or teachers) to round up the packlines, stop the traffic in appropriate
> places, mind the kids and keep everything orderly and safe. The kids learn
> to ride to school in a safe and convivial manner.
>
> There's also a variation called a "Pedibus" which goes on foot.
>
> The kids interviewed for the Velobus were saying it was really fun and got
> them to school faster than public transport or their harassed parents in
> cars. Of course it saved gas and money. The accompanying adults
> volunteered on a rotational basis, thus freeing up the other parents from
> chugging their kids to school before and after work.
>
> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>
> EFR
> Ile de France
We walked to school on our own when I was younger. True, there were a lot
of other kids going the same way at nearly the same time, but there were
also lots of adults about. There were also adults in the houses along the
way. This was back before we saw child molesters on every corner.
Charles of Schaumburg
|
| |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 04:15:55
From: David Martin
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Neil Williams wrote:
> David tin wrote:
>
> > A risk assessment would fail for ours.. the secondary school is at the
> > bottom of a gert steep hill.
>
> Typical risk-avoidance. Bicycles are fitted with brakes, are they not?
>
> > Everything else would be fine though. It
> > is a 15-20 minute walk, so they go by coach.
>
> Sounds like perfect walking distance.
OK, make that a 20-25 min walk.
That adds nearly an hour on to the trip, minus the time taken to board
and disembark the coach.
It is worth suggesting - the route is pretty safe with only three roads
to cross, and most of the rest across the park.
..d
|
| |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 03:48:01
From: Neil Williams
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
David tin wrote:
> A risk assessment would fail for ours.. the secondary school is at the
> bottom of a gert steep hill.
Typical risk-avoidance. Bicycles are fitted with brakes, are they not?
> Everything else would be fine though. It
> is a 15-20 minute walk, so they go by coach.
Sounds like perfect walking distance.
Neil
|
| | |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 16:02:40
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Neil Williams wrote on 21/09/2006 11:48 +0100:
>
> Typical risk-avoidance. Bicycles are fitted with brakes, are they not?
>
Yes, FSVO brakes.
--
Tony
"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
|
| |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 00:39:33
From: sothach
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
> I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
> newsgroup.
>
> The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
> means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind of
> bicycle convoy
I'd imagined this space-framed charabanc with a bicycle/cyclist at each
corner supporting rows of seats for the kids... What you describe
however, is more prosaic but neat all the same.
> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
Where are these fabled lands? Denk and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern?
|
| |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 01:47:21
From: OzCableguy
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
"Elisa Francesca Roselli" <nospam@free.fr > wrote in message
news:45118007$0$22498$626a54ce@news.free.fr...
> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>
Ahh the BikeBus. They've been in Australia for quite some time for
commuters. eg
http://www.massbug.org.au/cgi-bin/twiki/bin/view/MASSBUG/BikeBus
I haven't heard of any for school kids though.
--
www.ozcableguy.com
www.oztechnologies.com
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 23:05:37
From: mark
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
> I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
> newsgroup.
>
> The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
> means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind of
> bicycle convoy, routing through the residences of all the kids to pick
> them up as a schoolbus would, and accompanied by volunteer adults
> (parents or teachers) to round up the packlines, stop the traffic in
> appropriate places, mind the kids and keep everything orderly and safe.
> The kids learn to ride to school in a safe and convivial manner.
>
> There's also a variation called a "Pedibus" which goes on foot.
>
> The kids interviewed for the Velobus were saying it was really fun and
> got them to school faster than public transport or their harassed
> parents in cars. Of course it saved gas and money. The accompanying
> adults volunteered on a rotational basis, thus freeing up the other
> parents from chugging their kids to school before and after work.
>
> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>
> EFR
> Ile de France
I've heard of "walking buses in different parts of the US, great idea
for younger kids. As they get older it would be nice if they were
encouraged to walk or cycle on their own.
k
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 12:59:27
From: David Martin
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Tom Crispin wrote:
> Cycle trains.
>
> I'm trying to set one up for next academic year (2007/8) for getting
> children to and from school swimming lessons instead of using a coach.
A risk assessment would fail for ours.. the secondary school is at the
bottom of a gert steep hill. Everything else would be fine though. It
is a 15-20 minute walk, so they go by coach.
See the thread elsewhere for our progress in getting cycle facilities
and how to deal with them.
..d
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 19:30:17
From: Marcus Red
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
> I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
> newsgroup.
>
> The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
> means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind of
> bicycle convoy
[]
> There's also a variation called a "Pedibus" which goes on foot.
>
Invented by Eric Sykes IIRC
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 11:47:41
From: Not Responding
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
>
> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
Yup. Walking buses (often talked about, seldom seen) and Cycling Trains
(seldom talked about and seldom seen). Both usually fail any risk
assessment.
Both concepts are a pile of steaming shite as they are an acceptance
that the streets are unsafe for children. Organising these things takes
a hell of a lot of effort and they are rarely sustained as interest
wanes, it rains and parents/teachers/councillors move on.
I much prefer making safe routes to school actually safe - you know,
for, like /kids/ going to school. I'm sort of slightly in favour of a
ked trail on the pavement on approaches to schools - showing parents
that, yes it is OK to let your sprog walk on his own legs with his own
pals.
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 23:13:04
From: mark
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Not Responding wrote:
> Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
>
>> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>
> Yup. Walking buses (often talked about, seldom seen) and Cycling Trains
> (seldom talked about and seldom seen). Both usually fail any risk
> assessment.
>
> Both concepts are a pile of steaming shite as they are an acceptance
> that the streets are unsafe for children.
Depends on the age of the children and the streets they have to walk on.
k
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 20:28:12
From: John B
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Not Responding wrote:
> Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
>
> >
> > Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>
> Yup. Walking buses (often talked about, seldom seen) and Cycling Trains
> (seldom talked about and seldom seen). Both usually fail any risk
> assessment.
>
> Both concepts are a pile of steaming shite as they are an acceptance
> that the streets are unsafe for children.
The same could be argued about anything that encourages or teaches
children to deal with any danger. Of course it is best to remove the
cause.
With travel to school it is not only the real dangers of excessive
traffic, speed and bad driving, but also other, often unjustified
perceptions of danger held by parents.
Turning this around ain't gonna happen overnight, or even in the near
future. Its a battle that is only being won in small pockets where the
introduction of Walking and Cycling Buses can encourage less car use and
importantly give confidence to parents.
Of course providing safer routes must also continue, but in parallel to
these other initiatives.
> Organising these things takes
> a hell of a lot of effort
Oh,well, lets not bother then if it means making an effort.
Lets also tell the following that they are wasting their time:
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/unknown/viewarticle.aspx?id=398132
http://www.groundwork-tv.org.uk/news/detail/index.asp?id=5
http://www.watchfield.oxon.sch.uk/cycle_train.htm
http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/news/2006/june/21_06_2006-091530.asp
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4486069.stm
> and they are rarely sustained as interest
> wanes, it rains
Yep, lets also find all the reasons we shouldn't support such ideas.
> and parents/teachers/councillors move on.
If that happens then investigate employing helpers - in the same way as
the lollipop crossing patrol. If the worst does happen at least those
children who have benefited will have learned that cycling to school is a
possibility.
You never know, they may even wish to cycle independently.
> I much prefer making safe routes to school actually safe - you know,
> for, like /kids/ going to school.
There's no disagreement there.
A fundamental difference is that much usually then results in the
provision of infrastructure to be implemented by local councillors, who
also seem to have difficulty making actual decisions quickly.
With Walking and Cycling Buses, parents can actually _do_ something that
doesn't cost much bar a few tabards - nor need the approval of all and
sundry.
> I'm sort of slightly in favour of a
> ked trail on the pavement on approaches to schools - showing parents
> that, yes it is OK to let your sprog walk on his own legs with his own
> pals.
...and cycles painted on roads?
John B
|
| | | |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 21:21:17
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
John B wrote on 20/09/2006 20:28 +0100:
>
> The same could be argued about anything that encourages or teaches
> children to deal with any danger. Of course it is best to remove the
> cause.
Not necessarily there is increasing evidence now that no only does
removing the cause result in risk homeostasis - i.e they learn that more
dangerous behaviour is possible - but that we are creating a generation
of kids that have not had to learn to handle danger and are ill prepared
to deal with it when the protection of parents and the school ends.
--
Tony
"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
|
| | | | |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 12:05:29
From: Tony B
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Tony Raven wrote:
> - but that we are creating a generation
> of kids that have not had to learn to handle danger and are ill prepared
> to deal with it when the protection of parents and the school ends.
indeed, but luckily then that nice Mr Bliar has arranged for the state
to then take over and look after us. They have experts trained for that
sort of thing, so it all works out rather swimmingly!!
Of course, that does rather put us in a position where we are all
relying on the state rather a lot, but hey it's a bad world out there
and there are lots of bad men (always, ALWAYS men)waiting to get us.
Unless you happen to be one of those 100,000 that appear on the census
but not in any school record, then I guess you'll just have to chance
your arm with the rest of the degenerates ;-)
Tony B
ps irony for comic effect, natch!!
|
| | | | |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 21:24:49
From: John B
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Tony Raven wrote:
> John B wrote on 20/09/2006 20:28 +0100:
> >
> > The same could be argued about anything that encourages or teaches
> > children to deal with any danger. Of course it is best to remove the
> > cause.
>
> Not necessarily there is increasing evidence now that no only does
> removing the cause result in risk homeostasis - i.e they learn that more
> dangerous behaviour is possible - but that we are creating a generation
> of kids that have not had to learn to handle danger and are ill prepared
> to deal with it when the protection of parents and the school ends.
OK, I'll reword - It is often best to remove the danger.
John B
|
| | | | | |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 22:31:53
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
John B wrote on 20/09/2006 21:24 +0100:
>
> Tony Raven wrote:
>
>> John B wrote on 20/09/2006 20:28 +0100:
>>> The same could be argued about anything that encourages or teaches
>>> children to deal with any danger. Of course it is best to remove the
>>> cause.
>> Not necessarily there is increasing evidence now that no only does
>> removing the cause result in risk homeostasis - i.e they learn that more
>> dangerous behaviour is possible - but that we are creating a generation
>> of kids that have not had to learn to handle danger and are ill prepared
>> to deal with it when the protection of parents and the school ends.
>
> OK, I'll reword - It is often best to remove the danger.
>
Rewording it doesn't solve the problem - my post was about children not
learning to handle danger and removing the danger just ensures they
won't get the chance to learn to handle it.
--
Tony
"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 23:02:50
From: John B
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Tony Raven wrote:
> John B wrote on 20/09/2006 21:24 +0100:
> >
> > Tony Raven wrote:
> >
> >> John B wrote on 20/09/2006 20:28 +0100:
> >>> The same could be argued about anything that encourages or teaches
> >>> children to deal with any danger. Of course it is best to remove the
> >>> cause.
> >> Not necessarily there is increasing evidence now that no only does
> >> removing the cause result in risk homeostasis - i.e they learn that more
> >> dangerous behaviour is possible - but that we are creating a generation
> >> of kids that have not had to learn to handle danger and are ill prepared
> >> to deal with it when the protection of parents and the school ends.
> >
> > OK, I'll reword - It is often best to remove the danger.
>
> Rewording it doesn't solve the problem - my post was about children not
> learning to handle danger and removing the danger just ensures they
> won't get the chance to learn to handle it.
Best send your kids off to school with their wheel nuts undone and wonky
brakes then.
John B
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 04:22:12
From: Tom Crispin
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:02:50 +0100, John B <nothing@nowhere.com >
wrote:
>> > OK, I'll reword - It is often best to remove the danger.
>>
>> Rewording it doesn't solve the problem - my post was about children not
>> learning to handle danger and removing the danger just ensures they
>> won't get the chance to learn to handle it.
>
>Best send your kids off to school with their wheel nuts undone and wonky
>brakes then.
Perhaps you mean mitigate the danger rather than remove it.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 21:32:46
From: Tom Crispin
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 21:24:49 +0100, John B <nothing@nowhere.com >
wrote:
>
>
>Tony Raven wrote:
>
>> John B wrote on 20/09/2006 20:28 +0100:
>> >
>> > The same could be argued about anything that encourages or teaches
>> > children to deal with any danger. Of course it is best to remove the
>> > cause.
>>
>> Not necessarily there is increasing evidence now that no only does
>> removing the cause result in risk homeostasis - i.e they learn that more
>> dangerous behaviour is possible - but that we are creating a generation
>> of kids that have not had to learn to handle danger and are ill prepared
>> to deal with it when the protection of parents and the school ends.
>
>OK, I'll reword - It is often best to remove the danger.
Few of my colleagues will allow children to climb the PE ropes. Mind
you, I had a child's hands slip on a rope on Tuesday when he was at
the top, and he ended up with half a dozen blisters on his hands as he
slid to the ground.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 21:56:37
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Tom Crispin wrote on 20/09/2006 21:32 +0100:
>
> Few of my colleagues will allow children to climb the PE ropes. Mind
> you, I had a child's hands slip on a rope on Tuesday when he was at
> the top, and he ended up with half a dozen blisters on his hands as he
> slid to the ground.
He'll recover pretty quickly with no long term harm and he will have
learnt a valuable lesson.
--
Tony
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the
lesson afterwards."
- Vernon Sanders Law
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Sep 2006 04:19:54
From: Tom Crispin
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 21:56:37 +0100, Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.com >
wrote:
>Tom Crispin wrote on 20/09/2006 21:32 +0100:
>>
>> Few of my colleagues will allow children to climb the PE ropes. Mind
>> you, I had a child's hands slip on a rope on Tuesday when he was at
>> the top, and he ended up with half a dozen blisters on his hands as he
>> slid to the ground.
>
>He'll recover pretty quickly with no long term harm and he will have
>learnt a valuable lesson.
Very true. Before I packed him off to have plasters put on his
fingures and hands I got the rest of my class off the PE apparatus and
showed them what happens if you slide down a rope. Perhaps it was a
bit tough on the poor lad whose hands they were, but a valuable lesson
for all.
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 19:15:57
From: druidh
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Not Responding wrote:
> Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
>
>> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>
> Yup. Walking buses (often talked about, seldom seen) and Cycling Trains
> (seldom talked about and seldom seen). Both usually fail any risk
> assessment.
>
> Both concepts are a pile of steaming shite as they are an acceptance
> that the streets are unsafe for children. Organising these things takes
> a hell of a lot of effort and they are rarely sustained as interest
> wanes, it rains and parents/teachers/councillors move on.
>
> I much prefer making safe routes to school actually safe - you know,
> for, like /kids/ going to school. I'm sort of slightly in favour of a
> ked trail on the pavement on approaches to schools - showing parents
> that, yes it is OK to let your sprog walk on his own legs with his own
> pals.
>
Prat.
There are organised "walking buses" in my area. Very useful for getting
toddlers off to school without having hoards of parents driving there on
the way to work.
druidh
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 14:34:03
From: Chris Y.F.N.W.
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
What a great idea! Especially here in the States and ESPECIALLY in the
Southeastern states where obesity is a big problem with kids and P.E. is
a dying breed.
Now all we got to do is convince our currenr right-wing leaders...
- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner
To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 19:07:46
From: Nigel Cliffe
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
> I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
> newsgroup.
>
> The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is
> a means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a
> kind of bicycle convoy, routing through the residences of all the
> kids to pick them up as a schoolbus would, and accompanied by
> volunteer adults (parents or teachers) to round up the packlines,
> stop the traffic in appropriate places, mind the kids and keep
> everything orderly and safe. The kids learn to ride to school in a
> safe and convivial manner.
> There's also a variation called a "Pedibus" which goes on foot.
>
> The kids interviewed for the Velobus were saying it was really fun and
> got them to school faster than public transport or their harassed
> parents in cars. Of course it saved gas and money. The accompanying
> adults volunteered on a rotational basis, thus freeing up the other
> parents from chugging their kids to school before and after work.
>
> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
Certainly have the walking version at some schools, some more organised than
others.
Not sure about the cycling version. I saw an informal one operating in a
small Norfolk town: one parent cycling supervising, various children added
to the group as they went past homes towards the school.
--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 19:01:30
From: John B
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
> I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
> newsgroup.
>
> The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
> means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind of
> bicycle convoy, routing through the residences of all the kids to pick
> them up as a schoolbus would, and accompanied by volunteer adults
> (parents or teachers) to round up the packlines, stop the traffic in
> appropriate places, mind the kids and keep everything orderly and safe.
> The kids learn to ride to school in a safe and convivial manner.
>
> There's also a variation called a "Pedibus" which goes on foot.
>
> The kids interviewed for the Velobus were saying it was really fun and
> got them to school faster than public transport or their harassed
> parents in cars. Of course it saved gas and money. The accompanying
> adults volunteered on a rotational basis, thus freeing up the other
> parents from chugging their kids to school before and after work.
>
> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
I'm trying to introduce this at a priy school.
This summer just over 30 children in a busy village that suffers from
rat-running drivers were given cycle-training with one of the sub-aims
being to reduce congestion outside the school gates.
Some parents were also trained to ride with the children.
Its going to be a hard slog to get it fully accepted but the idea is to
setup routes of approximately 5/6 pick up points where children will be
able to join the 'Cycling Bus'.
So, yes the ideas are here too.
ISTR it may have been tried in other parts of the country.
John B
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 18:56:47
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote on 20/09/2006 18:53 +0100:
> I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
> newsgroup.
>
> The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
> means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind of
> bicycle convoy, routing through the residences of all the kids to pick
> them up as a schoolbus would, and accompanied by volunteer adults
> (parents or teachers) to round up the packlines, stop the traffic in
> appropriate places, mind the kids and keep everything orderly and safe.
> The kids learn to ride to school in a safe and convivial manner.
>
> There's also a variation called a "Pedibus" which goes on foot.
>
> The kids interviewed for the Velobus were saying it was really fun and
> got them to school faster than public transport or their harassed
> parents in cars. Of course it saved gas and money. The accompanying
> adults volunteered on a rotational basis, thus freeing up the other
> parents from chugging their kids to school before and after work.
>
> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>
Mainly walking buses rather than cycling buses but yes.
--
Tony
"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2006 20:50:56
From: Tom Crispin
Subject: Re: French Idea: Velobus
|
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:56:47 +0100, Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.com >
wrote:
>Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote on 20/09/2006 18:53 +0100:
>> I saw something on the news a few nights ago that might interest the
>> newsgroup.
>>
>> The French have come up with something they call the "Velobus". It is a
>> means of getting kids to school. Instead of a schoolbus, it is a kind of
>> bicycle convoy, routing through the residences of all the kids to pick
>> them up as a schoolbus would, and accompanied by volunteer adults
>> (parents or teachers) to round up the packlines, stop the traffic in
>> appropriate places, mind the kids and keep everything orderly and safe.
>> The kids learn to ride to school in a safe and convivial manner.
>>
>> There's also a variation called a "Pedibus" which goes on foot.
>>
>> The kids interviewed for the Velobus were saying it was really fun and
>> got them to school faster than public transport or their harassed
>> parents in cars. Of course it saved gas and money. The accompanying
>> adults volunteered on a rotational basis, thus freeing up the other
>> parents from chugging their kids to school before and after work.
>>
>> Cool, eh? Do they have this in Anglo-Saxon lands?
>>
>
>Mainly walking buses rather than cycling buses but yes.
Cycle trains.
I'm trying to set one up for next academic year (2007/8) for getting
children to and from school swimming lessons instead of using a coach.
|
|
