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Main
Date: 11 May 2007 07:30:53
From:
Subject: Good website on bike headlights
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I just found this website on bike headlights. Lots of good
discussion.
http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/thumbnails/nob.jpg
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 15 May 2007 06:47:25
From: Ben Pfaff
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu > writes:
>>> Why do we need a light while stopped?
>>>
>> To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are
>> waiting at intersections.
>
> I'm pretty sure only a bazooka or concrete barriers is going to *really*
> help with that.
A few weeks ago an old woman in a sedan bumped into the back of
my bike while I was stopped at a red light (fortunately not
enough to damage me or the bike). This was in broad daylight. I
don't think any amount of light on my bike would have helped.
--
Ben Pfaff
http://benpfaff.org
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Date: 15 May 2007 19:50:12
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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>>>> Why do we need a light while stopped?
>>> To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are
>>> waiting at intersections.
> Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> writes:
>> I'm pretty sure only a bazooka or concrete barriers is going to *really*
>> help with that.
Ben Pfaff wrote:
> A few weeks ago an old woman in a sedan bumped into the back of
> my bike while I was stopped at a red light (fortunately not
> enough to damage me or the bike). This was in broad daylight. I
> don't think any amount of light on my bike would have helped.
Last Sunday's Chicago Trib carried a story about a 17-yr-old CO woman
who rear-ended a stopped car, amputating the two helpful young men about
to change a tire at their knees. All four knees. Not even drunk or high,
"I thought I saw something but I wasn't sure"
We cyclists assume a lot about the passing cager pilots sometimes (shudder)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 16 May 2007 09:26:18
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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In rec.bicycles.misc A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> Ben Pfaff wrote:
>> A few weeks ago an old woman in a sedan bumped into the back of
>> my bike while I was stopped at a red light (fortunately not
>> enough to damage me or the bike). This was in broad daylight. I
>> don't think any amount of light on my bike would have helped.
>
> Last Sunday's Chicago Trib carried a story about a 17-yr-old CO woman
> who rear-ended a stopped car, amputating the two helpful young men about
> to change a tire at their knees. All four knees. Not even drunk or high,
> "I thought I saw something but I wasn't sure"
I've always been concious of this sort of thing. That's how my uncle
ended up a high single amputee.
> We cyclists assume a lot about the passing cager pilots sometimes (shudder)
It does seem to me that people are rarely killed or seriously injured by
malicious drivers (as much as they might like to). It's more often
drunk or oblivious people.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
-Dan Quayle
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Date: 15 May 2007 18:46:59
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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A Muzi wrote:
>>>>> Why do we need a light while stopped?
>
>>>> To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are
>>>> waiting at intersections.
>
>> Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> writes:
>>> I'm pretty sure only a bazooka or concrete barriers is going to *really*
>>> help with that.
>
> Ben Pfaff wrote:
>> A few weeks ago an old woman in a sedan bumped into the back of
>> my bike while I was stopped at a red light (fortunately not
>> enough to damage me or the bike). This was in broad daylight. I
>> don't think any amount of light on my bike would have helped.
>
> Last Sunday's Chicago Trib carried a story about a 17-yr-old CO woman
> who rear-ended a stopped car, amputating the two helpful young men about
> to change a tire at their knees. All four knees. Not even drunk or high,
> "I thought I saw something but I wasn't sure"
>
> We cyclists assume a lot about the passing cager pilots sometimes (shudder)
It's true. But in the case of stopped vehicles on the shoulder, it seems
to have become more of a problem due to the inattentiveness brought on
by too many distractions in the vehicle. Whether it's reaching for a CD,
fiddling with the GPS, or talking on the phone, a stopped vehicle may
just not register with these drivers as they plow into it.
The most horrible accidents occur when good Samaritans try to help. Now
I just let AAA take care of it. Their big yellow trucks are very
visible. It's not worth getting killed or maimed over.
One very good safety device, widely used all over the world except the
U.S., is the flexible shaft reflector that extends out to the side of
the bicycle. It has been proven to be very effective at encouraging
vehicles to not come too close to the bicycle, but if a vehicle hits the
shaft it will simply bend or break. Flags can be mounted to the seat
stay, or to a rear rack (with a rubber insert).
See "http://tinyurl.com/2sgsce".
I've equipped all our bicycles with these. I definitely notice that
vehicles tend to arc around us in a much wider path when we have the flags.
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Date: 16 May 2007 05:31:51
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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On Tue, 15 May 2007 18:46:59 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com >
wrote:
>The most horrible accidents occur when good Samaritans try to help. Now
>I just let AAA take care of it. Their big yellow trucks are very
>visible.
I'm not sure I've ever seen one.
> It's not worth getting killed or maimed over.
I stopped on a highway, in the left lane, two weeks ago to help
someone. I felt I *had* too -- I was the first car on the scene after
their car hit the barrier hard. It was daylight with good
visibility, so I stopped my car, with blinkers on, and hoped it would
protect me from some dumbass not paying attention.
Luckily a few seconds later other cars arrive that were paying
attention and we got the traffic under control while consoling the
victimes and calling for help.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 16 May 2007 11:09:32
From: _
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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On Wed, 16 May 2007 05:31:51 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Tue, 15 May 2007 18:46:59 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>The most horrible accidents occur when good Samaritans try to help. Now
>>I just let AAA take care of it. Their big yellow trucks are very
>>visible.
> I'm not sure I've ever seen one.
>
>> It's not worth getting killed or maimed over.
>
> I stopped on a highway, in the left lane, two weeks ago to help
> someone. I felt I *had* too -- I was the first car on the scene after
> their car hit the barrier hard. It was daylight with good
> visibility, so I stopped my car, with blinkers on, and hoped it would
> protect me from some dumbass not paying attention.
>
> Luckily a few seconds later other cars arrive that were paying
> attention and we got the traffic under control while consoling the
> victimes and calling for help.
In such a case, park your vehicle on the far side (from the point of view
of approaching traffic) of the stopped car. Take the emergency triangles
and flares or lights from your boot and walk them back a safe distance from
the stopped car. Taht way, should some fool not see the warnings, they hit
the stopped car, not yours.
You do have those triangles and flares in the boot, don't you?
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Date: 15 May 2007 08:02:45
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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Ben Pfaff wrote:
> A few weeks ago an old woman in a sedan bumped into the back of
> my bike while I was stopped at a red light (fortunately not
> enough to damage me or the bike). This was in broad daylight. I
> don't think any amount of light on my bike would have helped.
You could use a flashing xenon strobe, which is very visible in
daylight, much more so than an LED flasher in the daytime. Maybe if I
lived in an area with a lot of older drivers I'd turn on my rear light
in the daytime. Sometimes when I'm leading a ride of family members in
an area with a lot of bicycles, I'll turn on the rear strobe so they can
follow the right person more easily. It's amazing how having a good
lighting system has side benefits that you often don't think about.
"http://www.nordicgroup.us/s78/images/rearstrobe.jpg" which runs off my
main lighting system battery (available at
"http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=STROBE-3A&type=store").
However there are bicycle xenon strobes as well, i.e.
"http://www.night-sun.com/htmldocs/stuff_civilian.html". They offer an
AA powered model for those without a 12V lighting system, as well as a
model that's powered by the 12V battery that most high-end lighting
systems employ.
Steve
"http://bicyclelighting.com"
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Date: 14 May 2007 18:43:37
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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On May 14, 1:36 pm, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org > wrote:
> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:18:09 -0700, Zoot Katz wrote:
> > I like to flash the cross traffic diagonally cutting the corner while
> > making a left turn. Stunned ones aren't looking for you, they're
> > concentrating on getting a break in traffic so they can turn.
>
> > I use a LED blinky as my stand light and aim it at them.
>
> A helmet light is great for getting drivers' attention.
>
> However I still think it's important to have a handlebar light, to present
> the light signature of a bicycle, and help be recognized as such.
>
> Matt O.
Helmet lights are fine on wide roads, but if you're commuting on a
multi-use trail, Oncoming riders will hate you, especially if you look
at them. I don't know how many times I've been blinded by one of those.
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Date: 12 May 2007 10:34:51
From:
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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On May 12, 11:56 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
> > SMS wrote:
> >> Well I believe people like Ken Kifer
>
> > I'm pretty sure Mr Kifer is not up on recent developments
>
> Not funny.
>
> The big changes have been higher power Luxeon based LED lights, and
> falling prices of HID lights. The efficient dynamos like the LightSpin
> are gone.
I'll give you points for learning a _little_. About a week ago, you
claimed some other site was out of date because it didn't mention the
LightSpin. I pointed out the LightSpin is no longer available, and
amazingly, you paid attention.
But to say "the [other] efficient dynamos are gone" is another
mistake. There are others on the market as efficient as the
LightSpin. And really, the difference between a 60% efficient dynamo
and a 40% efficient one is not important to most non-competitive
riders.
> Meanwhile, I gave up on trying to keep up with the increasing prices of
> dynamo components, though much of this is probably due to the falling
> dollar.
Dynamo lights are still available for less than $50. Yes, top-of-the-
market units like the SON are expensive. So are top-of-the-market
frames, cranks, wheels, derailleurs, etc. If a person wants the
ultimate in performance, they're allowed to pay for it. If they want
more economy, there are plenty of viable choices - a fact that you
refuse to acknowledge in your supposedly "unbiased" website.
> In any case, what I liked about Kifer's statement is that it showed that
> he recognized that different types of lights are better for certain
> types of applications. Higher powered battery powered lights for
> commuting, and lower power dynamo lights for touring.
What you liked about Ken's statement was that you could use it to
bolster your prejudices. There have been many posters here who have
used dynamo lights for commuting for decades. I'm one of them. We've
given plenty of information about the benefits, which you continue to
ignore. As usual, you're simply cherry-picking others' statements -
and calling only those who agree with you "experts."
> While the dynamo jihad may not like anyone pointing out the pros and
> cons of each type of system, it seems to be appreciated by a lot of
> others, judging from both e-mail feedback and the web statistics.
I'm always interested in statistics. What data do you have?
But your list of "pros" on generators deliberately omits much. Not
surprising, from a failed marketer of rechargeable headlight
systems.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 12 May 2007 09:07:47
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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On May 12, 10:08 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > On May 12, 7:42 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> Zoot Katz wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 11 May 2007 16:06:33 -0700, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> It's more like people that are unable to look at the big picture and
> >>>> admit that what they do personally is not necessarily the wisest course
> >>>> of action.
> >>> I ride on well lit city steets. I don't need any lights to see where
> >>> I'm going.
> >>> A couple of blinkies is all that's needed to make me legeal.
> >> Yeah, everything is about you.
>
> > Did anyone else's Irony Meter just explode? ;-)
>
> Very funny. Have you actually looked at any of the sites? I take great
> care to present
<snip useless blather >
Here's it is, Scharf: *anyone* who presents themselves as "the world's
foremost authority" on a subject, as you do, loses all credibility.
All of your "websites" are all about you and your myopic take on
things bicycle.
Bleh!
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Date: 12 May 2007 07:36:18
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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On May 12, 7:42 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Zoot Katz wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 May 2007 16:06:33 -0700, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> It's more like people that are unable to look at the big picture and
> >> admit that what they do personally is not necessarily the wisest course
> >> of action.
>
> > I ride on well lit city steets. I don't need any lights to see where
> > I'm going.
> > A couple of blinkies is all that's needed to make me legeal.
>
> Yeah, everything is about you.
Did anyone else's Irony Meter just explode? ;-)
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Date: 12 May 2007 08:08:25
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> On May 12, 7:42 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Zoot Katz wrote:
>>> On Fri, 11 May 2007 16:06:33 -0700, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> It's more like people that are unable to look at the big picture and
>>>> admit that what they do personally is not necessarily the wisest course
>>>> of action.
>>> I ride on well lit city steets. I don't need any lights to see where
>>> I'm going.
>>> A couple of blinkies is all that's needed to make me legeal.
>> Yeah, everything is about you.
>
> Did anyone else's Irony Meter just explode? ;-)
Very funny. Have you actually looked at any of the sites? I take great
care to present _all_ the facts, both pro and con, regarding each type
of lighting system, including links to sites that have different
opinions. I quickly make corrections based on feedback from website
visitors, but it has to be more substantial than 'I use it so it must be
the best, and you're wrong.'
It's really amazing to see the defensiveness from a few dynamo
aficionados. It's always, "I" or "me," with never any comprehension that
your choices may not necessarily be the best choices for others, or g-d
forbid may not even be the best for you!
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Date: 12 May 2007 11:25:10
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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In article <4645d86d$0$27187$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> It's really amazing to see the defensiveness from a few dynamo
> aficionados. It's always, "I" or "me," with never any comprehension
> that your choices may not necessarily be the best choices for others,
If you believe that, then you are interpreting what other people write
in a very self-serving manner. Which, given the rest of the tone of
your writing, is no surprise.
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Date: 12 May 2007 06:40:42
From:
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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On May 11, 7:06 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
> > In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> Ted Bennett wrote:
>
> >>> Instead of the above, usehttp://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/
> >>> for the article, which is very good.
> >> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
> >> insufficient for most cyclists needs.
>
> > That is true as long as you define the set of experts for bicycle
> > lighting to 'True' where ('experts' = 'Steven Scharf') and exclude
> > anyone else on planet earth.
>
> Well I believe people like Ken Kifer, Paul Dorn, and Marty Goodman.
> Maybe there are some "experts" with differing views, but I've never seen
> any.
I'm sure you've never seen any that you can _recall_. We're familiar
with your lack of knowledge and inability to learn, despite your
personal claims to being "expert."
And I'm sure you've lost sight (again!) of the fact that the experts
who advise legislators in all US states and other countries have long
accepted generator lights. They are legal everywhere.
And I'm sure you've forgotten that a great many expert randonneurs -
people who ride road events over 24 hours long - use generator lights.
And as I said in a recent, similar thread regarding SMS's website:
"Finally, if one cherry picks enough other "experts" and takes enough
of their statements out of context, one can put together a list of
people who apparently don't like dynamos. But if the website were
truly unbiased, as the author claims, it would include an equal number
of statements from people like John Forester, Guy Chapman, Andreas
Oehler, John Allen, Sheldon Brown, Andrew Muzi, Peter Clinch and
countless others who either use, promote or accept generator lights.
Remember that SMS got into this as a failed marketer of rechargeable
light systems. Despite his claim to the contrary, his bias is
evident."
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 12 May 2007 01:50:17
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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In article <1178905083.287363.284340@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net > writes:
> Ah. You're talking about old-skool pre-halogen lamps. Yeah, those
> suck.
My ol' U-100 headlights with the 0.5A / 2.54V bulbs don't.
In fact, they work pretty good, as they were designed to do..
And the 0.6V taillights illuminate better than any blinkie,
as I've empirically observed on foggy, moonless nights.
It's old tech, but it's tried-'n-true, and it's more than
adequate.
cheers,
Tom
--
"I want you to show me the way" -- Peter Frampton
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 11 May 2007 19:03:08
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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On May 11, 4:06 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
> > In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> Ted Bennett wrote:
>
> >>> Instead of the above, usehttp://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/
> >>> for the article, which is very good.
> >> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
> >> insufficient for most cyclists needs.
>
> > That is true as long as you define the set of experts for bicycle
> > lighting to 'True' where ('experts' = 'Steven Scharf') and exclude
> > anyone else on planet earth.
>
> Well I believe people like Ken Kifer, Paul Dorn, and Marty Goodman.
> Maybe there are some "experts" with differing views, but I've never seen
> any. All we see here is people that desperately defend whatever they are
> doing themselves; short on facts and long on anecdotes.
OK, that's my third "Huh?"
Are you even reading back what your're writing? Your first post was to
dismiss a website written by two of the best-known, most-respected
people in the world of randonneuring and bike commuting.
All the people you quote talk about wattage. Light output isn't
measured in wattage, it's measured in candlepower or lumens. You're
quoting outdated information from when all lighting systems were
incandescent bulbs. With LED and HID systems, wattage isn't the be-
all, end-all.
I get it. Anything you agree with is a fact, and anything you don't is
an anecdote.
Go away, you idiot.
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Date: 11 May 2007 13:17:17
From: Andy M-S
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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On May 11, 12:47 pm, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
> > That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
> > insufficient for most cyclists needs. I have some dynamo lights, and
> > while they're great for well-lit familiar streets, you wouldn't want to
> > be riding in dark or unfamiliar areas with them, as they aren't bright
> > enough.
>
> Dynamos aren't real popular in the USA, I know for sure.
> With a good LED a dynamo could be more than enough, but it may not be
> the best choice for city riding because of the fact that a regular
> dynamo setup doesn't work if you aren't /rolling/.
>
> There's at least one somewhere that the light has a small rechargeable
> battery to run off of while standing still.
> ------
> All the cheaper dynamo lights I know of still is dim yellow low-output
> incan bulbs however, and converting to a good LED is still something of
> a D-I-Y task.
>
> A good LED setup needs a big heatsink as well as a current
> regulator--but at least, powering it from a generator means you don't
> need a perfectly-efficient regulator circuit (like you want if you're
> driving it with a battery). You could use one of the more-wasteful
> regulators, as long as it left enough power to run the LED decently.
> ~
Actually, you don't need a regulator at all, since generators
generally don't put out more than 500 mA. At least, not in my
experience. I'm currently using 2 3W Luxeon K2 stars in series,
powered with the output from a Shimano hub generator run through a
full-wave bridge rectifier. That's it. The heatsinking is fairly
minimal (because it's a generator light, it's only getting warm while
there's forced air cooling). I'm using two L2 20mm lenses--one a
narrow beam, one a wideangle. It works great.
It works so well under all conditions that I'm building a single-LED
unit to work with an older Soubitez bottle generator on my other
bike. That one *will* have a 1F capacitor in place to supply a
minimal standlight...
My first single-LED system built this way compared favorably to a
friend's 15W halogen, for what that's worth.
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Date: 11 May 2007 10:38:03
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
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On May 11, 10:08 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Ted Bennett wrote:
> > Instead of the above, usehttp://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/
> > for the article, which is very good.
>
> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
> insufficient for most cyclists needs.
Huh? Which experts?
I have some dynamo lights, and
> while they're great for well-lit familiar streets, you wouldn't want to
> be riding in dark or unfamiliar areas with them, as they aren't bright
> enough.
Double huh? I used dynamos for all my commuting this winter, which was
in the dark both directions, 10 miles of which had no streetlighting.
>
> The only stores you'll find dynamo lights for sale these days are places
> like hardware stores and drug stores. Very, very few bicycle stores sell
> dynamo lights anymore, the market is too small, and there is some legal
> risk as well.
Ah. You're talking about old-skool pre-halogen lamps. Yeah, those
suck. I don't know of anybody who sells those anymore, except as
vintage parts on ebay.
>You can order high end dynamo lights on-line from Peter
> White Cycles, but a good system with a 6W dynamo and a good headlight
> will cost you a lot of money.
Most dynamos available today are 6 VOLT, 3W. I've never seen a 6W
bicycle dynamo. So yeah, that probably would cost a lot of money. And
a Shimano Nexus dynohub + a good quality B&M lamp is comparable in
price, probably less, than a large share of rechargeable systems out
there. Same goes for B&M's better bottle generators + lamp.
>
> I strongly agree with the late Ken Kifer's statement, "For commuters,
> the best front light is the very bright rechargeable lamp."
How recently late? B&M and Schmidt have been introducing fantastic
dynamo lamps in recent years. Especially B&M's LED products.
And Very Bright Rechargeable Lamps are very good at blinding oncoming
riders. Especially helmet-mounted ones.
>
> For the best web site on bicycle lighting, just Google or Yahoo "bicycle
> lighting" and the first non-sponsored result will take you there.
>
> Oh my, I just realized, that's _my_ web site, what a surprise!
Based on what you've said here, I question your judgement.
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Date: 11 May 2007 16:13:14
From: Ted Bennett
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
> I just found this website on bike headlights. Lots of good
> discussion.
>
> http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/thumbnails/nob.jpg
>
>
> - Frank Krygowski
Instead of the above, use http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/
for the article, which is very good.
Thanks for the link, Frank.
--
Ted Bennett
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Date: 11 May 2007 18:05:55
From: Alan Hoyle
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
In rec.bicycles.misc Ted Bennett <tedbennett@earthlink.net > wrote:
>> I just found this website on bike headlights. Lots of good
>> discussion.
>>
>> http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/thumbnails/nob.jpg
> Instead of the above, use http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/
> for the article, which is very good.
> Thanks for the link, Frank.
The previous link has a great link to a roundup of 2007 LED lights:
http://www.gearreview.com/2007_led_lights.php
-a
--
Alan Hoyle - alanh@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.
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Date: 11 May 2007 13:07:40
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
In rec.bicycles.misc Alan Hoyle <alanh@unc.edu > wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Ted Bennett <tedbennett@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>> I just found this website on bike headlights. Lots of good
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/thumbnails/nob.jpg
>
>> Instead of the above, use http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/
>> for the article, which is very good.
>
>> Thanks for the link, Frank.
>
> The previous link has a great link to a roundup of 2007 LED lights:
>
> http://www.gearreview.com/2007_led_lights.php
Interesting, though it seems a bit MTB specific in it's outlook.
This URL is what finally sold me on getting a Solidlights LED generator
light:
http://www.meiring.org.uk/pdm/Audax/SolidLights_Review.shtml
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
The question is, why are politicians so eager to be president? What is it
about the job that makes it worth revealing, on national television, that
you have the ethical standards of a slime-coated piece of industrial waste?
-- Dave Barry, "On Presidential Politics"
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| | |
Date: 11 May 2007 10:08:28
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
Ted Bennett wrote:
> Instead of the above, use http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/
> for the article, which is very good.
That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
insufficient for most cyclists needs. I have some dynamo lights, and
while they're great for well-lit familiar streets, you wouldn't want to
be riding in dark or unfamiliar areas with them, as they aren't bright
enough.
The only stores you'll find dynamo lights for sale these days are places
like hardware stores and drug stores. Very, very few bicycle stores sell
dynamo lights anymore, the market is too small, and there is some legal
risk as well. You can order high end dynamo lights on-line from Peter
White Cycles, but a good system with a 6W dynamo and a good headlight
will cost you a lot of money.
I strongly agree with the late Ken Kifer's statement, "For commuters,
the best front light is the very bright rechargeable lamp."
For the best web site on bicycle lighting, just Google or Yahoo "bicycle
lighting" and the first non-sponsored result will take you there.
Oh my, I just realized, that's _my_ web site, what a surprise!
|
| | | |
Date: 11 May 2007 21:13:40
From: Patrick Lamb
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
SMS wrote:
> Ted Bennett wrote:
>
>> Instead of the above, use http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/ for
>> the article, which is very good.
>
>
> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
> insufficient for most cyclists needs.
Except, apparently, for the experts who ride with them.
If all you have is a hammer, maybe it's time to stop by the hardware
store and get a screwdriver or a crescent wrench...
Pat
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| | | | |
Date: 12 May 2007 06:59:26
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
Patrick Lamb wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> Ted Bennett wrote:
>>
>>> Instead of the above, use http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/ for
>>> the article, which is very good.
>>
>> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
>> insufficient for most cyclists needs.
>
> Except, apparently, for the experts who ride with them.
I have some dynamo lights, including a Sanyo bottom bracket dynamo.
Dynamo lights are great in some applications. If you're doing Brevet
rides they're a good choice. For commuting, often not so great. But you
already knew that.
> If all you have is a hammer, maybe it's time to stop by the hardware
> store and get a screwdriver or a crescent wrench...
I prefer the Cool Tool.
For the facts about dynamo lighting, Google (or Yahoo) "dynamo lighting
facts". The first two results on each will go directly to pages (two
different pages) that explain the pros and cons of dynamo systems, as
well as the myths and facts of rechargeables.
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| | | |
Date: 11 May 2007 11:57:21
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> Ted Bennett wrote:
>
>> Instead of the above, use http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/
>> for the article, which is very good.
>
> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
> insufficient for most cyclists needs.
That is true as long as you define the set of experts for bicycle
lighting to 'True' where ('experts' = 'Steven Scharf') and exclude
anyone else on planet earth.
> I have some dynamo lights, and while they're great for well-lit
> familiar streets, you wouldn't want to be riding in dark or unfamiliar
> areas with them, as they aren't bright enough.
Blah blah blah, you regurgitate this pretty much every time the subject
of dynamo lights comes up until everyone gets tired of telling you
you're wrong.
> The only stores you'll find dynamo lights for sale these days are
> places like hardware stores and drug stores. Very, very few bicycle
> stores sell dynamo lights anymore, the market is too small,
Somewhat true, Americans are not exactly number one for cycle commuting.
Especially in the rain and dark.
> and there is some legal risk as well. You can order high end dynamo
> lights on-line from Peter White Cycles, but a good system with a 6W
> dynamo and a good headlight will cost you a lot of money.
Legal risk? Ha!
As to your cost argument, we've seen you put up these ridiculous
strawmen about how people need a $500 lighting setup to pootle two miles
to work.
> I strongly agree with the late Ken Kifer's statement, "For commuters,
> the best front light is the very bright rechargeable lamp."
Pfffft. And oddly enough, things have changed. I find it kind of
offensive that you use Ken's site as an example, when you know it's
static and doesn't get updated since his death. Classy.
> For the best web site on bicycle lighting, just Google or Yahoo
> "bicycle lighting" and the first non-sponsored result will take you
> there.
>
> Oh my, I just realized, that's _my_ web site, what a surprise!
Oh self promotion, we can add tacky also I think.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
Dungeons and Dragons is just a lot of Saxon Violence.
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Date: 11 May 2007 16:06:33
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
Dane Buson wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Ted Bennett wrote:
>>
>>> Instead of the above, use http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/
>>> for the article, which is very good.
>> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
>> insufficient for most cyclists needs.
>
> That is true as long as you define the set of experts for bicycle
> lighting to 'True' where ('experts' = 'Steven Scharf') and exclude
> anyone else on planet earth.
Well I believe people like Ken Kifer, Paul Dorn, and Marty Goodman.
Maybe there are some "experts" with differing views, but I've never seen
any. All we see here is people that desperately defend whatever they are
doing themselves; short on facts and long on anecdotes.
Here are some statements regarding low wattage and generator lights from
bicycle advocacy organizations and cycling experts:
North Carolina Bicycle Coalition
http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/lights/lights.htm
...a cyclist operating at 15 mph can see well enough with less than 600
candlepower (e.g. 12 watt halogen), and a cyclist operating at 7.5 mph
can see far enough in with less than 150 candlepower (e.g. 3 watt
halogen). The light provided by a bicycle headlamp may be focused into a
narrow beam for maximum range, or may be spread out for better
peripheral vision. A three watt lamp can be focused into a beam suitable
for high speed cycling on the darkest roads, but will not give much
illumination of turns. North Carolina Bicycle Coalition
Sacramento Area Bicycle Advocates
(http://www.sacbike.org/articles/article.php?mode=display&lognum=17)
"If you want to cycle at low speeds in areas with street lights, other
ambient lighting, or when there's a full moon on a cloudless night, a
low wattage light is OK. If you actually want to see obstacles in darker
areas, you need a more powerful light, from 10 to 30 watts or more. With
the added power come a couple of penalties, much higher costs and more
weight. These lights can run from $70 to well over $200. Their weights,
mostly from the batteries (often rechargeable NiCads) can go from 2 to 3
pounds."
Bicycle Federation of Wisconsin
(http://www.bfw.org/new_bfw/articles/brightideas.php?printable=true)
"Generators One of the oldest lighting systems is the generator. This
type of lighting works off a generator (or dynamo) that is powered when
it makes contact with the bicycle's tire. A generator system is often
set up to power a headlight and a taillight. These systems are reliable,
but often lack the power to really light up the road. Generators are
more popular in Europe than in the United States."
Ken Kifer http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/traffic/traffic.htm
"For commuters, the best front light is the very bright rechargeable
lamp. For the day tourer, it's important to carry a small,
battery-powered lamp for the trip that ends up finishing after daylight
has ended. Unfortunately, many of the lights sold for this purpose are
inadequate. For long-distance travelers, those who ride long distances
in the country at night, or those whose habits are sporadic, a generator
front light is bright and always available for use."
Ice Bike (http://icebike.com/Equipment/lights.htm)
.....my personal first priority is brightness. Not just because its hard
to see, but because being seen is even more difficult. If you are doing
city riding, you need more light than country riding. 6 watts is
adequate on a dark country road, but would be totally overpowered in a
city environment.
Ken Kifer (http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/commute/accessor.htm)
I have been using generator lights for many years, and I find them very
suitable for riding in the country at night and on touring trips. There
are no batteries to fade or go bad, and the light gets brighter while
going downhill. The beam is very wide and thus visible from all sides.
On the other hand, a generator light is not very bright in city traffic
and goes out each time you stop at a red light.
Peter Cole
"I'm always surprised that so many serious cyclists who otherwise
recognize the equivalence of bicycles to other vehicles take exception
to lighting requirements. I wouldn't dare operate a motorcycle with a 3W
light, so I don't understand the recommendation to operate a bicycle (at
often similar speeds ) with such inadequate lights. Perhaps this was an
accommodation to the technological limitations of the past, but in these
times of readily available and relatively cheap, high-wattage
alternatives, it seems a bad way to go."
Steven Goodridge (
http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/lights/lights.htm)
"...a cyclist operating at 15 mph can see well enough with less than 600
candlepower (e.g. 12 Watt halogen), and a cyclist operating at 7.5 mph
can see far enough in with less than 150 candlepower (e.g. 3 Watt
halogen). The light provided by a bicycle headlamp may be focused into a
narrow beam for maximum range, or may be spread out for better
peripheral vision. A three Watt lamp can be focused into a beam suitable
for high speed cycling on the darkest roads, but will not give much
illumination of turns." This is a good, succinct, evaluation of the
trade-offs inherent with low power lighting.
Paul Dorn (http://www.runmuki.com/commute/commuting10.html)
"The more expensive lights, which use a rechargeable battery mounted on
the frame, are essential if you ride at night."
> Blah blah blah, you regurgitate this pretty much every time the subject
> of dynamo lights comes up until everyone gets tired of telling you
> you're wrong.
It's more like people that are unable to look at the big picture and
admit that what they do personally is not necessarily the wisest course
of action.
> Legal risk? Ha!
In fact there is a big risk for stores that sell safety equipment that
has safety issues. At least that's what one store owner told me when I
inquired as to why they didn't sell any dynamo systems except as part of
bikes that came with them from the factory (this transferred the risk to
the manufacturer, or so said their insurance company).
> As to your cost argument, we've seen you put up these ridiculous
> strawmen about how people need a $500 lighting setup to pootle two miles
> to work.
Huh?
All prices I've ever quoted for _any_ kind of lights are from the web
sites of the companies that sell them.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 12 May 2007 10:05:51
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
>> In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> Instead of the above, use http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/
>>>> for the article, which is very good.
>>> Ted Bennett wrote:
>>> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree
>>> are insufficient for most cyclists needs.
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> That is true as long as you define the set of experts for bicycle
>> lighting to 'True' where ('experts' = 'Steven Scharf') and exclude
>> anyone else on planet earth.
SMS wrote:
> Well I believe people like Ken Kifer
I'm pretty sure Mr Kifer is not up on recent developments
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
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Date: 12 May 2007 08:56:00
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
A Muzi wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> Well I believe people like Ken Kifer
>
> I'm pretty sure Mr Kifer is not up on recent developments
Not funny.
The big changes have been higher power Luxeon based LED lights, and
falling prices of HID lights. The efficient dynamos like the LightSpin
are gone.
Meanwhile, I gave up on trying to keep up with the increasing prices of
dynamo components, though much of this is probably due to the falling
dollar.
OTOH, the resurgence of hub dynamos is good to see, especially now that
we're seeing some lower cost options such as the Joule, used by Dahon.
When a bicycle manufacturer includes a dynamo system, the extra cost is
relatively low, versus building a new wheel with a hub dynamo, and
purchasing all the lamps at retail prices.
In any case, what I liked about Kifer's statement is that it showed that
he recognized that different types of lights are better for certain
types of applications. Higher powered battery powered lights for
commuting, and lower power dynamo lights for touring. He never fell into
the "what I do is the only thing that everyone else should do" mindset
that appears to be so prevalent these days. That's why I added the whole
dynamo section to the web site, to present the different lighting
options, and explain the pros and cons of each.
While the dynamo jihad may not like anyone pointing out the pros and
cons of each type of system, it seems to be appreciated by a lot of
others, judging from both e-mail feedback and the web statistics.
It's amusing to see Usenet threads where someone inquires about
trade-offs between different LED lights or different HID lights, and the
same people are always responding off-topic with a lecture on how they
use dynamo lights and why the original poster should be using dynamo
lights too. There was just a thread like this recently. It's always 'I
do this and if you don't do the same thing as me then it somehow
invalidates my choices.'
|
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Date: 12 May 2007 11:57:48
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
>> SMS wrote:
>>> Well I believe people like Ken Kifer
> A Muzi wrote:
>> I'm pretty sure Mr Kifer is not up on recent developments
SMS wrote:
> Not funny.
-snip-
> It's amusing to see Usenet threads where someone inquires about
> trade-offs between different LED lights or different HID lights, and the
> same people are always responding off-topic with a lecture on how they
> use dynamo lights and why the original poster should be using dynamo
> lights too. There was just a thread like this recently. It's always 'I
> do this and if you don't do the same thing as me then it somehow
> invalidates my choices.'
Well, I don't. Here, I sell battery blinkies, halogens, LED, various
dynamos and hi-zoot HID, Halogen and LED recharge systems. Whatever.
There are a gazillion riders with various opinions, no 'bad' choices.
I'd go so far as to say that probably at least 1/2 of riders have no
light whatsoever. And could probably use one.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 13 May 2007 20:56:52
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
A Muzi wrote:
> Well, I don't. Here, I sell battery blinkies, halogens, LED, various
> dynamos and hi-zoot HID, Halogen and LED recharge systems. Whatever.
> There are a gazillion riders with various opinions, no 'bad' choices.
I see bad choices just about every time I'm riding at night. A lot less
visible than even the 2.4W headlights. Even worse than the headlights
that aren't even good as "being seen" lights, are the drugstore/hardware
store rear LED flashers. Usually these have no reflector built in, use
the lowest intensity LEDs, and lack any side-pointing LEDs. Not all that
much cheaper than a good rear blinker either.
|
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Date: 12 May 2007 12:04:20
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
A Muzi wrote:
> Well, I don't. Here, I sell battery blinkies, halogens, LED, various
> dynamos and hi-zoot HID, Halogen and LED recharge systems. Whatever.
> There are a gazillion riders with various opinions, no 'bad' choices.
Yeah, but you have to go to Peter White Cycles to buy the ultimate light.
"http://peterwhitecycles.com/bigbang.asp"
$953. And $3 extra for the plug adapter, LOL.
|
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Date: 13 May 2007 14:15:54
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
> A Muzi wrote:
>> Well, I don't. Here, I sell battery blinkies, halogens, LED, various
>> dynamos and hi-zoot HID, Halogen and LED recharge systems. Whatever.
>> There are a gazillion riders with various opinions, no 'bad' choices.
SMS wrote:
> Yeah, but you have to go to Peter White Cycles to buy the ultimate light.
> "http://peterwhitecycles.com/bigbang.asp"
> $953. And $3 extra for the plug adapter, LOL.
You prove my point. Many choices ($15 to $953) including some pretty
cool stuff!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
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Date: 12 May 2007 02:04:28
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
On Fri, 11 May 2007 16:06:33 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com >
wrote:
>It's more like people that are unable to look at the big picture and
>admit that what they do personally is not necessarily the wisest course
>of action.
I ride on well lit city steets. I don't need any lights to see where
I'm going.
A couple of blinkies is all that's needed to make me legeal.
Go shove your desk lamp bullshit.
--
zk
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Date: 12 May 2007 05:42:27
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
Zoot Katz wrote:
> On Fri, 11 May 2007 16:06:33 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> It's more like people that are unable to look at the big picture and
>> admit that what they do personally is not necessarily the wisest course
>> of action.
>
> I ride on well lit city steets. I don't need any lights to see where
> I'm going.
> A couple of blinkies is all that's needed to make me legeal.
Yeah, everything is about you.
> Go shove your desk lamp bullshit.
Very smooth.
|
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Date: 12 May 2007 19:23:11
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
On Sat, 12 May 2007 05:42:27 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com >
wrote:
>Zoot Katz wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 May 2007 16:06:33 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's more like people that are unable to look at the big picture and
>>> admit that what they do personally is not necessarily the wisest course
>>> of action.
>>
>> I ride on well lit city steets. I don't need any lights to see where
>> I'm going.
>> A couple of blinkies is all that's needed to make me legeal.
>
>Yeah, everything is about you.
>
>> Go shove your desk lamp bullshit.
>
>Very smooth.
If by "smooth" you mean "incisive", yeah.
I'm saying your claims that paint-peelers are the only way to be seen
in traffic are plain bullshit.
I can't count the times I've noticed a blinking LED before noticing
the bike with a super bright battery powered halogen lamp.
As others have pointed out, your cobbled up desk lamps don't focus
the beam in any useful manner.
--
zk
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| | | |
Date: 11 May 2007 13:40:30
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
SMS wrote:
> Ted Bennett wrote:
>
>> Instead of the above, use http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/ for
>> the article, which is very good.
>
> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
> insufficient for most cyclists needs. I have some dynamo lights, and
> while they're great for well-lit familiar streets, you wouldn't want to
> be riding in dark or unfamiliar areas with them, as they aren't bright
> enough.
>
> The only stores you'll find dynamo lights for sale these days are places
> like hardware stores and drug stores. Very, very few bicycle stores sell
> dynamo lights anymore, the market is too small, and there is some legal
> risk as well. You can order high end dynamo lights on-line from Peter
> White Cycles, but a good system with a 6W dynamo and a good headlight
> will cost you a lot of money.
>
> I strongly agree with the late Ken Kifer's statement, "For commuters,
> the best front light is the very bright rechargeable lamp."
>
> For the best web site on bicycle lighting, just Google or Yahoo "bicycle
> lighting" and the first non-sponsored result will take you there.
>
> Oh my, I just realized, that's _my_ web site, what a surprise!
Man, what a small worldview.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | |
Date: 11 May 2007 12:47:51
From:
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
On Fri, 11 May 2007 13:40:30 -0500, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org >
wrote:
>SMS wrote:
>> Ted Bennett wrote:
>>
>>> Instead of the above, use http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/ for
>>> the article, which is very good.
>>
>> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
>> insufficient for most cyclists needs. I have some dynamo lights, and
>> while they're great for well-lit familiar streets, you wouldn't want to
>> be riding in dark or unfamiliar areas with them, as they aren't bright
>> enough.
>>
>> The only stores you'll find dynamo lights for sale these days are places
>> like hardware stores and drug stores. Very, very few bicycle stores sell
>> dynamo lights anymore, the market is too small, and there is some legal
>> risk as well. You can order high end dynamo lights on-line from Peter
>> White Cycles, but a good system with a 6W dynamo and a good headlight
>> will cost you a lot of money.
>>
>> I strongly agree with the late Ken Kifer's statement, "For commuters,
>> the best front light is the very bright rechargeable lamp."
>>
>> For the best web site on bicycle lighting, just Google or Yahoo "bicycle
>> lighting" and the first non-sponsored result will take you there.
>>
>> Oh my, I just realized, that's _my_ web site, what a surprise!
>
>Man, what a small worldview.
Dear Andrew,
Perhaps he could see things more clearly with a better light?
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | |
Date: 11 May 2007 12:47:52
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
SMS wrote:
>
> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
> insufficient for most cyclists needs. I have some dynamo lights, and
> while they're great for well-lit familiar streets, you wouldn't want to
> be riding in dark or unfamiliar areas with them, as they aren't bright
> enough.
>
Dynamos aren't real popular in the USA, I know for sure.
With a good LED a dynamo could be more than enough, but it may not be
the best choice for city riding because of the fact that a regular
dynamo setup doesn't work if you aren't /rolling/.
There's at least one somewhere that the light has a small rechargeable
battery to run off of while standing still.
------
All the cheaper dynamo lights I know of still is dim yellow low-output
incan bulbs however, and converting to a good LED is still something of
a D-I-Y task.
A good LED setup needs a big heatsink as well as a current
regulator--but at least, powering it from a generator means you don't
need a perfectly-efficient regulator circuit (like you want if you're
driving it with a battery). You could use one of the more-wasteful
regulators, as long as it left enough power to run the LED decently.
~
|
| | | | |
Date: 11 May 2007 15:51:29
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
DougC wrote:
> A good LED setup needs a big heatsink as well as a current
> regulator--but at least, powering it from a generator means you don't
> need a perfectly-efficient regulator circuit (like you want if you're
> driving it with a battery). You could use one of the more-wasteful
> regulators, as long as it left enough power to run the LED decently.
The LED headlight sold by Peter White has a buck DC-DC regulator built
in, that accepts a wide range of voltages. These regulators are at least
90% efficient, so that 10% or so loss needs to be made up by the higher
efficiency of the LED.
As you stated, these LEDs need a big heat sink, and apparently the
manufacturer of these lights neglected to properly size the heat sink,
as there were many reports of excessive heat causing other components to
unsolder themselves. But at least there was no "white hot filament,"
just a "white hot LED," LOL. Hopefully the manufacturer has solved this
problem by now.
|
| | | | |
Date: 11 May 2007 13:53:06
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
DougC wrote:
-snip dynamos -
> may not be
> the best choice for city riding because of the fact that a regular
> dynamo setup doesn't work if you aren't /rolling/.
Yeah, that has been "explained" to me as long as I've (happily) ridden
with them - since 1972. I may be special, but where I ride, the
streetlamps are at the intersections.
Total lifetime maintenance costs (bulbs, wires, lenses etc for 3
dynamos) under fifty bucks I estimate. Plenty of light, I never have a
'dead' light and I don't (can't) leave them home. YMMV
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | | |
Date: 12 May 2007 21:21:56
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
In article <1349et06q8mikc9@corp.supernews.com >,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> DougC wrote:
>
> -snip dynamos -
> > may not be
> > the best choice for city riding because of the fact that a regular
> > dynamo setup doesn't work if you aren't /rolling/.
>
> Yeah, that has been "explained" to me as long as I've (happily) ridden
> with them - since 1972. I may be special, but where I ride, the
> streetlamps are at the intersections.
>
> Total lifetime maintenance costs (bulbs, wires, lenses etc for 3
> dynamos) under fifty bucks I estimate. Plenty of light, I never have a
> 'dead' light and I don't (can't) leave them home. YMMV
Why do we need a light while stopped?
--
Michael Press
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Date: 13 May 2007 22:18:09
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
On Sat, 12 May 2007 21:21:56 -0700, Michael Press
<rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
>In article <1349et06q8mikc9@corp.supernews.com>,
> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> DougC wrote:
>>
>> -snip dynamos -
>> > may not be
>> > the best choice for city riding because of the fact that a regular
>> > dynamo setup doesn't work if you aren't /rolling/.
>>
>> Yeah, that has been "explained" to me as long as I've (happily) ridden
>> with them - since 1972. I may be special, but where I ride, the
>> streetlamps are at the intersections.
>>
>> Total lifetime maintenance costs (bulbs, wires, lenses etc for 3
>> dynamos) under fifty bucks I estimate. Plenty of light, I never have a
>> 'dead' light and I don't (can't) leave them home. YMMV
>
>Why do we need a light while stopped?
Often I'll be stopped in the left tire track at an intersection where
I'm going straight but most traffic is turning.
I like to flash the cross traffic diagonally cutting the corner while
making a left turn. Stunned ones aren't looking for you, they're
concentrating on getting a break in traffic so they can turn.
I use a LED blinky as my stand light and aim it at them.
--
zk
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Date: 14 May 2007 16:36:10
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:18:09 -0700, Zoot Katz wrote:
> I like to flash the cross traffic diagonally cutting the corner while
> making a left turn. Stunned ones aren't looking for you, they're
> concentrating on getting a break in traffic so they can turn.
>
> I use a LED blinky as my stand light and aim it at them.
A helmet light is great for getting drivers' attention.
However I still think it's important to have a handlebar light, to present
the light signature of a bicycle, and help be recognized as such.
Matt O.
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Date: 14 May 2007 21:59:29
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
Matt O'Toole wrote:
> A helmet light is great for getting drivers' attention.
>
> However I still think it's important to have a handlebar light, to present
> the light signature of a bicycle, and help be recognized as such.
I have found that the most effective lights for commuting are lights
that _don't_ give you the light signature of a bicycle.
The problem with many drivers is that they don't expect a bicycle to be
traveling more than 5-10 mph. When you're approaching at 20 mph, and all
they see is a tiny light or a blinker, they'll turn left in front of you
at intersections, they'll come out of parking lots without yielding to
you, etc. I definitely notice the difference in driver behavior when I'm
using good lights.
When I'm riding my main commute bike, which has dual 14 watt sealed
beams (with usually just one on), I think that I look more like a
motorcycle, which is why the drivers behave better.
"http://www.nordicgroup.us/s78/images/img_0281.jpg"
Of course if they're about to misbehave, a blast from my horn quickly
brings them back to their senses. It's so loud that it startles me when
I accidentally hit the button.
Steve
"http://bicyclelighting.com"
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Date: 14 May 2007 16:30:20
From: Mike
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
In article <rubrum-1B8C63.21215612052007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net >, rubrum@pacbell.net says...
> In article <1349et06q8mikc9@corp.supernews.com>,
> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > DougC wrote:
> >
> > -snip dynamos -
> > > may not be
> > > the best choice for city riding because of the fact that a regular
> > > dynamo setup doesn't work if you aren't /rolling/.
> >
> > Yeah, that has been "explained" to me as long as I've (happily) ridden
> > with them - since 1972. I may be special, but where I ride, the
> > streetlamps are at the intersections.
> >
> > Total lifetime maintenance costs (bulbs, wires, lenses etc for 3
> > dynamos) under fifty bucks I estimate. Plenty of light, I never have a
> > 'dead' light and I don't (can't) leave them home. YMMV
>
> Why do we need a light while stopped?
>
To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are waiting at intersections.
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Date: 14 May 2007 16:32:01
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:30:20 +1200, Mike wrote:
> In article <rubrum-1B8C63.21215612052007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, rubrum@pacbell.net says...
>> Why do we need a light while stopped?
> To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are waiting at intersections.
A "standlight" in front is important to keep drivers from making left
turns in front of you as you start riding into an intersection. Since a
dynamo light isn't visible while you're stopped, oncoming drivers might
not notice you. However it's surprising how attention-getting the tiny
LED standlights are.
If your dynamo light doesn't have this, a small auxiliary LED light does
the trick.
Matt O.
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Date: 14 May 2007 10:10:53
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
In rec.bicycles.misc Mike <m.fee@iirrll..ccrrii..nnzz > wrote:
>> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> Why do we need a light while stopped?
>>
> To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are
> waiting at intersections.
I'm pretty sure only a bazooka or concrete barriers is going to *really*
help with that. Still, my light has a standlight and I use a 5 LED
front light as a blinky.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
The default Magic Word, "Abracadabra", actually is a corruption of the
Hebrew phrase "ha-Bracha dab'ra" which means "pronounce the blessing".
|
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Date: 14 May 2007 23:42:01
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
> In rec.bicycles.misc Mike <m.fee@iirrll..ccrrii..nnzz> wrote:
>>> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> Why do we need a light while stopped?
>>>
>> To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are
>> waiting at intersections.
Dane Buson wrote:
> I'm pretty sure only a bazooka or concrete barriers is going to *really*
> help with that. Still, my light has a standlight and I use a 5 LED
> front light as a blinky.
Nothing I wrote is shown under my name
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
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Date: 15 May 2007 05:39:25
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
In rec.bicycles.misc A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc Mike <m.fee@iirrll..ccrrii..nnzz> wrote:
>>>> rubrum@pacbell.net wrote:
>
>>>> Why do we need a light while stopped?
>>>>
>>> To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are
>>> waiting at intersections.
>
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> I'm pretty sure only a bazooka or concrete barriers is going to *really*
>> help with that. Still, my light has a standlight and I use a 5 LED
>> front light as a blinky.
>
> Nothing I wrote is shown under my name
Sorry about that, I just replied to SMS's post. Which is where the
error appears to have originated. I've fixed it (in this post) to show
the correct poster.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more
doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage, than the creation of
a new system. For the initiator has the emnity of all who would profit
by the preservation of the old institutions and merely lukewarm defenders
in those who would gain by the new ones.
-- Niccolo Machiavelli, 1513
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Date: 15 May 2007 18:37:18
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
In article <t8moh4-j7k.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org >,
Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu > wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> In rec.bicycles.misc Mike <m.fee@iirrll..ccrrii..nnzz> wrote:
> >>>> rubrum@pacbell.net wrote:
> >
> >>>> Why do we need a light while stopped?
> >>>>
> >>> To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are
> >>> waiting at intersections.
> >
> > Dane Buson wrote:
> >> I'm pretty sure only a bazooka or concrete barriers is going to *really*
> >> help with that. Still, my light has a standlight and I use a 5 LED
> >> front light as a blinky.
> >
> > Nothing I wrote is shown under my name
>
> Sorry about that, I just replied to SMS's post. Which is where the
> error appears to have originated. I've fixed it (in this post) to show
> the correct poster.
The `error' appeared in one of your messages. Namely
<tphmh4-vt7.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org >
which is a reply not to SMS, but to Mike's
<MPG.20b2ad0474aeaa3989730@news.fx.net.nz >
No quoted material appears at a quote level exactly one greater
than the quote level of the attribution line containing `A Muzi',
so careful counting shows that no quoted message lines are
attributed to A Muzi; and this is why I put ticks around `error'
in the previous paragraph. Of course it can be misleading, and
AM's point is well taken.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 15 May 2007 13:11:50
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
Michael Press wrote:
> No quoted material appears at a quote level exactly one greater
> than the quote level of the attribution line containing `A Muzi',
> so careful counting shows that no quoted message lines are
> attributed to A Muzi; and this is why I put ticks around `error'
> in the previous paragraph. Of course it can be misleading, and
> AM's point is well taken.
Oh g-d enough already. I'm not sure where the attributions got messed
up. If I did it I apologize, if someone else did it I apologize for them.
Steve
http://bicyclelighting.com (Google Bicycle Lighting)
http://bicyclecoffeesystems.com (Google Bicycle Coffee)
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Date: 15 May 2007 22:29:20
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
In article <464a140c$0$14136$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> Michael Press wrote:
>
> > No quoted material appears at a quote level exactly one greater
> > than the quote level of the attribution line containing `A Muzi',
> > so careful counting shows that no quoted message lines are
> > attributed to A Muzi; and this is why I put ticks around `error'
> > in the previous paragraph. Of course it can be misleading, and
> > AM's point is well taken.
>
> Oh g-d enough already. I'm not sure where the attributions got messed
> up. If I did it I apologize, if someone else did it I apologize for them.
But you did not mess up. Two fingers of single malt* as anti-penance.
[*] Or the moral equivalent.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 15 May 2007 12:17:47
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
In rec.bicycles.misc Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
> Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> wrote:
>
>> Sorry about that, I just replied to SMS's post. Which is where the
>> error appears to have originated. I've fixed it (in this post) to show
>> the correct poster.
>
> The `error' appeared in one of your messages.
True, as I already acknowledged.
> Namely <tphmh4-vt7.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org> which is a reply not to
> SMS, but to Mike's <MPG.20b2ad0474aeaa3989730@news.fx.net.nz>
True also, I didn't look closely enough at my threading.
I will now go read RFC 977 again in penance.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
A Difficulty for Every Solution.
-- Motto of the Federal Civil Service
|
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Date: 15 May 2007 20:33:14
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
>> Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> wrote:
>>> Sorry about that, I just replied to SMS's post. Which is where the
>>> error appears to have originated. I've fixed it (in this post) to show
>>> the correct poster.
> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> The `error' appeared in one of your messages.
Dane Buson wrote:
> True, as I already acknowledged.
>> Namely <tphmh4-vt7.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org> which is a reply not to
>> SMS, but to Mike's <MPG.20b2ad0474aeaa3989730@news.fx.net.nz>
Dane Buson wrote:
> True also, I didn't look closely enough at my threading.
> I will now go read RFC 977 again in penance.
Dane, I'm sorry this took on a life of its own. I was not offended and
thought a short note about attribution would clear up the rest of the
thread. That's all.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 14 May 2007 22:13:34
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
A Muzi wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc Mike <m.fee@iirrll..ccrrii..nnzz> wrote:
>>>> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>> Why do we need a light while stopped?
>>>>
>>> To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we
>>> are waiting at intersections.
>
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> I'm pretty sure only a bazooka or concrete barriers is going to
>> *really* help with that. Still, my light has a standlight and I use
>> a 5 LED front light as a blinky.
> Nothing I wrote is shown under my name
They don't seem to care about such trivial matters around here, Andy. HTH!
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Date: 14 May 2007 04:47:13
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
Mike wrote:
> In article <rubrum-1B8C63.21215612052007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, rubrum@pacbell.net says...
>> In article <1349et06q8mikc9@corp.supernews.com>,
>> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> Why do we need a light while stopped?
>>
> To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are waiting at intersections.
That's for the back anyway. You can always use a battery powered LED or
Xenon strobe.
For the front, when you're stopped at a traffic light and you are going
straight but the vehicle across from you is turning left, a standlight
is a good idea. I plan my commute to cross major arteries like El Camino
Real on minor cross-streets that have traffic lights. Most of the
vehicular traffic will be turning from the minor cross-street onto the
major arterial. If you don't have a good light, they just turn right in
front you even though you have the right of way.
It's actually less of a problem when you're stopped--you just let them
go first and it's no big deal. It's more of a problem when you're riding
at 20mph approaching a green light, and they turn in front of you
because a) they don't see you because you're using a crappy light, or b)
they do see you but they equate a small, relatively low power light with
a slow moving vehicle. With low power lights, risk compensation comes
into play, you ride more cautiously because you know you aren't as visible.
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Date: 13 May 2007 23:44:34
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
>>> DougC wrote:
>>> -snip dynamos -
>>>> may not be
>>>> the best choice for city riding because of the fact that a regular
>>>> dynamo setup doesn't work if you aren't /rolling/.
>> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> Yeah, that has been "explained" to me as long as I've (happily) ridden
>>> with them - since 1972. I may be special, but where I ride, the
>>> streetlamps are at the intersections.
>>> Total lifetime maintenance costs (bulbs, wires, lenses etc for 3
>>> dynamos) under fifty bucks I estimate. Plenty of light, I never have a
>>> 'dead' light and I don't (can't) leave them home. YMMV
> rubrum@pacbell.net says...
>> Why do we need a light while stopped?
Mike wrote:
> To stop lunatics in SUVs from running us down from behind while we are waiting at intersections.
I usually note that neighborhoods, ambient traffic and rider opinions
vary a lot. Which is why I haven't made recommendations on lighting.
For my rides, a headlamp with reflectors works well but as I noted there
are streetlamps at the intersections which are well lit. I surely never
wrote anything against blinky lights or tail lamps. In fact, YMMV!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
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Date: 12 May 2007 01:39:56
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
On Fri, 11 May 2007 13:53:06 -0500, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org >
wrote:
>DougC wrote:
>
>-snip dynamos -
>> may not be
>> the best choice for city riding because of the fact that a regular
>> dynamo setup doesn't work if you aren't /rolling/.
>
>Yeah, that has been "explained" to me as long as I've (happily) ridden
>with them - since 1972. I may be special, but where I ride, the
>streetlamps are at the intersections.
>
>Total lifetime maintenance costs (bulbs, wires, lenses etc for 3
>dynamos) under fifty bucks I estimate. Plenty of light, I never have a
>'dead' light and I don't (can't) leave them home. YMMV
Better than that, they're still there when you come out of the store
and a daytime running light doesn't limit your night riding.
Grinding your own lumens is easier than dragging an extension cord.
Bicycling is so often associated with "freedom" that it makes no
sense being tied to the grid
--
zk
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Date: 11 May 2007 18:30:30
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Good website on bike headlights
|
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote in message
news:4644a30d$0$27221$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> That site is mainly about dynamo lights, which all the experts agree are
> insufficient for most cyclists needs.
You don't learn, do you. That statement is complete and utter bollocks.
> The only stores you'll find dynamo lights for sale these days are places
> like hardware stores and drug stores. Very, very few bicycle stores sell
> dynamo lights anymore, the market is too small, and there is some legal
> risk as well.
More bullshit.
It would be nice to read a post from you which wasn't full of nonsense, but
I don't hold out much hope.
clive
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