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Date: 25 Sep 2007 10:33:22
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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LA bus drivers (and cops) do tend to be surly, but this is over the top:
http://laist.com/2007/09/24/hollywood_bus_d.php
Matt O.
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 08:07:59
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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On Sep 27, 3:04 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Sep 27, 6:49 am, Kenny <Postoas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Although I sympathize with the cyclist, I take the basketball rule of
> > thumb to vehicular activity, that is, "no harm, no foul." Maybe, when
> > I'm in a bad mood I'd flip'em off, but I'd never seek a confrontation.
> > I mean there are jerks everywhere. Jerks on the road, at work, in
> > public places, you can't educate them all. If you tried you might go
> > postal.
>
> Close only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades?
>
> Joseph
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 07:04:42
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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On Sep 27, 6:49 am, Kenny <Postoas...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Although I sympathize with the cyclist, I take the basketball rule of
> thumb to vehicular activity, that is, "no harm, no foul." Maybe, when
> I'm in a bad mood I'd flip'em off, but I'd never seek a confrontation.
> I mean there are jerks everywhere. Jerks on the road, at work, in
> public places, you can't educate them all. If you tried you might go
> postal.
Close only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades?
Joseph
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 21:49:16
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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Although I sympathize with the cyclist, I take the basketball rule of
thumb to vehicular activity, that is, "no harm, no foul." Maybe, when
I'm in a bad mood I'd flip'em off, but I'd never seek a confrontation.
I mean there are jerks everywhere. Jerks on the road, at work, in
public places, you can't educate them all. If you tried you might go
postal.
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 13:07:45
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:49:16 -0700, Kenny wrote:
> Although I sympathize with the cyclist, I take the basketball rule of
> thumb to vehicular activity, that is, "no harm, no foul." Maybe, when
> I'm in a bad mood I'd flip'em off, but I'd never seek a confrontation. I
> mean there are jerks everywhere. Jerks on the road, at work, in public
> places, you can't educate them all. If you tried you might go postal.
Point well taken.
But whatever the cyclist did, there's no excuse for the bus driver
threatening or "shoving" him with her bus. If she had rammed any other
vehicle in anger, she'd probably go to jail, and/or lose her job.
Matt O.
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 21:26:04
From:
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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>
> In general, here in Chapel Hill NC the bus drivers are good with
> cyclists.
Yeah I have had good luck with them in Vancouver. I think they have an
understanding, or at least and appreciation of cycling in traffic, as
they get to deal with the most atrocious drivers all day long but
aren't exposed at a personal risk to themselves.
Byron
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Date: 29 Sep 2007 11:50:23
From: Claire Petersky
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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<byronsspam@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190867164.407919.138200@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>> In general, here in Chapel Hill NC the bus drivers are good with
>> cyclists.
>
> Yeah I have had good luck with them in Vancouver. I think they have an
> understanding, or at least and appreciation of cycling in traffic, as
> they get to deal with the most atrocious drivers all day long but
> aren't exposed at a personal risk to themselves.
Ditto here in Seattle. I did get nearly run down by some driver last week,
but the fact that it is so rare is what made it notable.
I realize as I ride up Third every morning (bikes and buses only during rush
hour) that we're just like these annoying mosquitos around the rhinos of the
buses. Like a rhino, they aren't very nimble, but once they get going, they
move along just fine, and you probably don't want to make them mad at you.
--
Warm Regards,
Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 07:54:48
From: rick b
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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In general it's poor practice for a bicyclist to escalate the
confrontation as much as the rider did in the article. Right or
wrong, motor vehicles are much bigger than we are. Better to take
down as much information as possible about the vehicle and report it
later.
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 21:34:47
From: Bob
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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On Sep 25, 9:33 am, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org > wrote:
> LA bus drivers (and cops) do tend to be surly, but this is over the top:
>
> http://laist.com/2007/09/24/hollywood_bus_d.php
>
> Matt O.
It's a bit unwise to form an opinion on an incident based solely on
the word of one of the participants. Somewhere there may be a post (in
some LA Metro bus drivers NG undoubtedly) from this female bus driver
generating all kinds of sympathy for *her* version of events...
"This huge bearded guy on a bike just went berserk slapping the side
of my bus as I passed him, shouting profanity at me, intentionally
blocking the street, and threatening me and my passengers. Why, some
of my passengers were so frightened they got off the bus and ran away!
The police showed up but of course they let him go. Cyclists *always*
get away with it." <g >
Regards,
Bob Hunt
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 14:43:39
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:34:47 -0700, Bob wrote:
> On Sep 25, 9:33 am, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>> LA bus drivers (and cops) do tend to be surly, but this is over the
>> top:
>> http://laist.com/2007/09/24/hollywood_bus_d.php
> It's a bit unwise to form an opinion on an incident based solely on the
> word of one of the participants. Somewhere there may be a post (in some
> LA Metro bus drivers NG undoubtedly) from this female bus driver
> generating all kinds of sympathy for *her* version of events... "This
> huge bearded guy on a bike just went berserk slapping the side of my bus
> as I passed him, shouting profanity at me, intentionally blocking the
> street, and threatening me and my passengers. Why, some of my passengers
> were so frightened they got off the bus and ran away! The police showed
> up but of course they let him go. Cyclists *always* get away with it."
> <g>
"...so I got really pissed off and rammed him..."
Your point is well taken, but there were plenty of other witnesses to
this, including a friend whom I consider credible -- a former LA
prosecutor, then private attorney defending the MTA against lawsuits. If
not for this, I might not believe an event written up in LA-ist or
Craigslist or Whatevertheblog even happened.
But it's easy to understand why things like this do happen:
* Bus drivers have to deal with all kinds of crazies -- people who
assault/intimidate drivers and passengers, or intentionally cause
accidents so they can sue the city
* Because of this, MTA bus drivers have a "hot button" to the LAPD, who
arrive assuming some troublemaker is disrupting bus service. Not knowing
what's going on and fearing the worst, they respond aggressively, but then
can't back down once their adrenaline is flowing.
* Bus drivers know the deck is stacked in their favor, and take advantage
of it when they're having a bad day. Give the driver a little lip and
she'll call the cops and say you threatened her. Some drivers have a bad
day every day, but their union ensures they remain employed.
* LAPD may take it upon themselves to "discourage" people from messing
with the LAPD or the MTA.
So it's easy to see why this stuff happens, but it's still unacceptable.
"No harm, no foul" should apply to all of us, including bus drivers and
police officers -- and hotheaded wankers on bicycles.
Matt O.
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 21:22:46
From: Sir Thomas of Cannondale
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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I drive a school bus. I give bicyclists so much room .. you can't believe.
If I can't give the cyclist room, I wait till there is room.
I have honked on occasion. I do this way back, so the cyclist isnt scared.
This is just to tell the cyclist I'm coming along.
While I hate to admit it, there are some cyclists who break the rules. I've
come across a few who ride in the middle of the road when there is plenty of
shoulder.
In a city, dealing with city buses, I would not bother to yell at or
confront the driver.
It would be better to immediatly call the bus company, tell the dispatch or
ask for a supervisor, and give them the bus number, etc.
When you get home, write a letter, send it to the authority or transit
company. Also send a copy to the police department, mayor, etc. Make sure
a few agencies get the letter. This way they must respond to each other and
eventually the bus company.
The "cc" in a letter is a very powerful tool.
===========================
"Matt O'Toole" <mattotoole@letterboxes.org > wrote in message
news:pan.2007.09.25.14.33.20.291636@letterboxes.org...
> LA bus drivers (and cops) do tend to be surly, but this is over the top:
>
> http://laist.com/2007/09/24/hollywood_bus_d.php
>
> Matt O.
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 12:44:38
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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On Sep 25, 9:05 pm, Wayne Pein <wp...@nc.rr.com > wrote:
> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sep 25, 4:33 pm, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>
> >>LA bus drivers (and cops) do tend to be surly, but this is over the top:
>
> >> http://laist.com/2007/09/24/hollywood_bus_d.php
>
> >>Matt O.
>
> > I had a run in with a bus driver yesterday. He saw me coming across
> > the top of a T intersection and decided I was of no consequence so he
> > just pulled out in front of me. He had a yeild sign. I was forced to
> > brake resonably hard and swerve so as not to broadside the bus. I gave
> > him the finger, and turned around to give chase. It took some serious
> > motoring on my part to catch him (rural area!) but when I did, he was
> > ready for a "discussion". I decided to start out nice and give him an
> > out by asking if he didn't see me due to the sun glare. He responded
> > with that he was tired of cyclists who think they own the road. So I
> > asked if that meant that because some other people are jerks it was ok
> > to run me over. Then he said I didn't have reflectors (I have
> > reflective tape) which is I think the standard bus driver response
> > around here as I have heard others say they heard the same thing from
> > jerk bus drivers. I stuck to my story asking him if he had a yeild
> > sign, and if so he was supposed to yeild to me. He then claimed I was
> > going too fast. The speed limit is 50km/h and I was lucky if I was
> > doing 30 up the rise where the intersection is. He said I was doing
> > 60. I said no way, if I could do 60 there I'd be down winning the
> > world championships not sitting there arguing with him. He laughed. I
> > then said I knew he wasn't going to admit it because it had to do with
> > his job, etc, but that I knew that he knew I was at least partially
> > right, and he shouldn't take it upon himself to give some cyclist a
> > lesson because some other cyclists have been a problem for him. He
> > sort of half nodded, and we went our seperate ways. I saw him again
> > today and I waved.
>
> > Joseph
>
> In general, here in Chapel Hill NC the bus drivers are good with
> cyclists. However, I've had my share of run-ins with bus drivers over
> the years. They can be very aggressive with their vehicles, but those
> that are are also too stupid to realize that I can easily catch them at
> the next light. At that point we have a discussion, and I let them know
> I have their bus number and they will be reported. Then I go to the
> municipal bus offices and have a face to face with the boss.
>
> Wayne
Actually around here the busses have been amongst the most thoughtful
of drivers, so I was surprised at his "f*** you" move throwing the bus
in front of me. There are only a handful of bus drivers (8-10?) that
drive the routes I ride, and I'm sure they all recognize me. One bus
driver is a neighbor, and another is a racer I ride with. Maybe this
(new) guy will tell them about it back at the locker room or where
ever, and they'll let him have it too!
Joseph
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 19:04:59
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Actually around here the busses have been amongst the most thoughtful
> of drivers, so I was surprised at his "f*** you" move throwing the bus
> in front of me. There are only a handful of bus drivers (8-10?) that
> drive the routes I ride, and I'm sure they all recognize me. One bus
> driver is a neighbor, and another is a racer I ride with. Maybe this
> (new) guy will tell them about it back at the locker room or where
> ever, and they'll let him have it too!
>
Yea, our bus drivers are in general better than the average towards
bicyclists. I have a friend who is a driver: he was a racer and his
brother, also a friend, still is. I think my complaints over the years
have improved their culture.
But drivers are drivers, and there will be the occasional hostile one.
There is always turnover of bus drivers. Bus drivers drive in circles
all day, and are in conflict with bicyclists when they pull over to the
curb. Couple that with the stupid maneuvers they undoubtedly regularly
see, particularly in this college town. So their stress may be high.
Wayne
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 11:20:30
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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On Sep 25, 4:33 pm, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org > wrote:
> LA bus drivers (and cops) do tend to be surly, but this is over the top:
>
> http://laist.com/2007/09/24/hollywood_bus_d.php
>
> Matt O.
I had a run in with a bus driver yesterday. He saw me coming across
the top of a T intersection and decided I was of no consequence so he
just pulled out in front of me. He had a yeild sign. I was forced to
brake resonably hard and swerve so as not to broadside the bus. I gave
him the finger, and turned around to give chase. It took some serious
motoring on my part to catch him (rural area!) but when I did, he was
ready for a "discussion". I decided to start out nice and give him an
out by asking if he didn't see me due to the sun glare. He responded
with that he was tired of cyclists who think they own the road. So I
asked if that meant that because some other people are jerks it was ok
to run me over. Then he said I didn't have reflectors (I have
reflective tape) which is I think the standard bus driver response
around here as I have heard others say they heard the same thing from
jerk bus drivers. I stuck to my story asking him if he had a yeild
sign, and if so he was supposed to yeild to me. He then claimed I was
going too fast. The speed limit is 50km/h and I was lucky if I was
doing 30 up the rise where the intersection is. He said I was doing
60. I said no way, if I could do 60 there I'd be down winning the
world championships not sitting there arguing with him. He laughed. I
then said I knew he wasn't going to admit it because it had to do with
his job, etc, but that I knew that he knew I was at least partially
right, and he shouldn't take it upon himself to give some cyclist a
lesson because some other cyclists have been a problem for him. He
sort of half nodded, and we went our seperate ways. I saw him again
today and I waved.
Joseph
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 15:05:36
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sep 25, 4:33 pm, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>
>>LA bus drivers (and cops) do tend to be surly, but this is over the top:
>>
>> http://laist.com/2007/09/24/hollywood_bus_d.php
>>
>>Matt O.
>
>
> I had a run in with a bus driver yesterday. He saw me coming across
> the top of a T intersection and decided I was of no consequence so he
> just pulled out in front of me. He had a yeild sign. I was forced to
> brake resonably hard and swerve so as not to broadside the bus. I gave
> him the finger, and turned around to give chase. It took some serious
> motoring on my part to catch him (rural area!) but when I did, he was
> ready for a "discussion". I decided to start out nice and give him an
> out by asking if he didn't see me due to the sun glare. He responded
> with that he was tired of cyclists who think they own the road. So I
> asked if that meant that because some other people are jerks it was ok
> to run me over. Then he said I didn't have reflectors (I have
> reflective tape) which is I think the standard bus driver response
> around here as I have heard others say they heard the same thing from
> jerk bus drivers. I stuck to my story asking him if he had a yeild
> sign, and if so he was supposed to yeild to me. He then claimed I was
> going too fast. The speed limit is 50km/h and I was lucky if I was
> doing 30 up the rise where the intersection is. He said I was doing
> 60. I said no way, if I could do 60 there I'd be down winning the
> world championships not sitting there arguing with him. He laughed. I
> then said I knew he wasn't going to admit it because it had to do with
> his job, etc, but that I knew that he knew I was at least partially
> right, and he shouldn't take it upon himself to give some cyclist a
> lesson because some other cyclists have been a problem for him. He
> sort of half nodded, and we went our seperate ways. I saw him again
> today and I waved.
>
> Joseph
>
In general, here in Chapel Hill NC the bus drivers are good with
cyclists. However, I've had my share of run-ins with bus drivers over
the years. They can be very aggressive with their vehicles, but those
that are are also too stupid to realize that I can easily catch them at
the next light. At that point we have a discussion, and I let them know
I have their bus number and they will be reported. Then I go to the
municipal bus offices and have a face to face with the boss.
Wayne
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 19:53:49
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Hollywood bus driver attacks cyclist, LAPD handcuffs cyclist
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Wayne Pein wrote:
> In general, here in Chapel Hill NC the bus drivers are good with
> cyclists. However, I've had my share of run-ins with bus drivers over
> the years. They can be very aggressive with their vehicles, but those
> that are are also too stupid to realize that I can easily catch them at
> the next light. At that point we have a discussion, and I let them know
> I have their bus number and they will be reported. Then I go to the
> municipal bus offices and have a face to face with the boss.
I was buzzed by a student shuttle bus on campus at my University. I
called the office that runs the busses and reported the incident. You
really don't need the bus #, just the time and place. They know who is
there when.
After I reported the incident it never happened again. Unfortunately we
can't deal with drivers of cars the same way.
--
David L. Johnson
Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front of
enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of them would
reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has
proven this not to be the case.
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