Insurance Settlement Experiences

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Date: 24 Aug 2006 03:37:54
From: Alex Webster
Subject: Insurance Settlement Experiences

I'm looking for some anecdotal information on experiences folks have
had with insurance settlements for road bike damage after a wreck
perpetrated by an automobile in which they were at fault. Were you paid
the replacement cost of the bike, or did they try to depreciate it?

In my case there is no contributory negligence on my part; the auto
driver was written up in the accident report as completely at fault.

Regrettably, this is my second such experience. In the first case,
again the auto driver completely at fault when they turned across my
path and I T-boned them at about 25 mph, the driver's insurance company
rep wrote a check as quickly as she could for the full amount of the
bike shop estimate of replacing my bicycle, a double-butted SLX steel
frame, which was completely destroyed with bent fork and frame. This
was a good strategy on their part to try to earn my goodwill that they
were nice folks looking out for me, considering the severity of the
accident and the prospects for medical and pain and suffering
settlements, or court action.

In the current case, the accident was not as severe when they
improperly passed me (and crossed the center yellow line) with about
two inches to spare as I owned the center of the lane at 20 mph to
protect myself in a congested situation, and I went down rather
gracelessly. Many components were scraped up and the aluminum frame was
dented: about a 7 year old bike with numerous upgrades of components,
some of them less than a month old, extremely well cared for, no chips
or flaws in the exceptional paint scheme, all decals intact. The dent
cannot be repaired, and of course, it is now a frame that has been
wrecked.

I sent an estimate of replacement cost for bike (which is what they had
requested) about a month ago, and after hearing nothing and then about
a week of waiting for a return call to my phone message requests for
status, finally was able to catch the insurance rep at her desk. She
apologized for the lack of response, she was doing research on the
internet for the bike's value and hadn't found anything comparable yet.
It's clear she's been spending the month on the 'net trying to try to
get a value for it by catching my bike's particular year and model
being offered for sale by someone on Ebay or wherever it might show up
(since, unlike a car, you don't have blue book depreciation schedules
on bikes).

Naturally I'm not happy about this, so I'd be grateful for any comments
on how typical my experience is in this case, and how much of a fuss I
should put up.

Thanks,
Alex

Date: 27 Aug 2006 14:40:24
From: TomP
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

A friend had to have a bike lawyer write a couple of letters to get the
insurance company to settle. The lawyer was a local one (LA) and
advertised in Velo News. He prided himself on the fact that in all the
years he practiced this sort of law. He only went to court a couple of
times.

The settlement:
new bike about $2000
new riding cloths, including shoes; about $300
medical expences; about $3000
pain & suffering; $15,000 The lawyer got $5000 of this money.

Qualifier: the year was 1997

Alex Webster wrote:

> I'm looking for some anecdotal information on experiences folks have
> had with insurance settlements for road bike damage after a wreck
> perpetrated by an automobile in which they were at fault. Were you paid
> the replacement cost of the bike, or did they try to depreciate it?
>
> In my case there is no contributory negligence on my part; the auto
> driver was written up in the accident report as completely at fault.
>
> Regrettably, this is my second such experience. In the first case,
> again the auto driver completely at fault when they turned across my
> path and I T-boned them at about 25 mph, the driver's insurance company
> rep wrote a check as quickly as she could for the full amount of the
> bike shop estimate of replacing my bicycle, a double-butted SLX steel
> frame, which was completely destroyed with bent fork and frame. This
> was a good strategy on their part to try to earn my goodwill that they
> were nice folks looking out for me, considering the severity of the
> accident and the prospects for medical and pain and suffering
> settlements, or court action.
>
> In the current case, the accident was not as severe when they
> improperly passed me (and crossed the center yellow line) with about
> two inches to spare as I owned the center of the lane at 20 mph to
> protect myself in a congested situation, and I went down rather
> gracelessly. Many components were scraped up and the aluminum frame was
> dented: about a 7 year old bike with numerous upgrades of components,
> some of them less than a month old, extremely well cared for, no chips
> or flaws in the exceptional paint scheme, all decals intact. The dent
> cannot be repaired, and of course, it is now a frame that has been
> wrecked.
>
> I sent an estimate of replacement cost for bike (which is what they had
> requested) about a month ago, and after hearing nothing and then about
> a week of waiting for a return call to my phone message requests for
> status, finally was able to catch the insurance rep at her desk. She
> apologized for the lack of response, she was doing research on the
> internet for the bike's value and hadn't found anything comparable yet.
> It's clear she's been spending the month on the 'net trying to try to
> get a value for it by catching my bike's particular year and model
> being offered for sale by someone on Ebay or wherever it might show up
> (since, unlike a car, you don't have blue book depreciation schedules
> on bikes).
>
> Naturally I'm not happy about this, so I'd be grateful for any comments
> on how typical my experience is in this case, and how much of a fuss I
> should put up.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex

--
Tp,

-------- __o
----- -\<. -------- __o
--- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<.
-------------------- ( )/ ( )
-----------------------------------------

No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron...

Date: 25 Aug 2006 15:06:35
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

Alex Webster <NoUCE@address.invalid > wrote:
> I'm looking for some anecdotal information on experiences folks have
> had with insurance settlements for road bike damage after a wreck
> perpetrated by an automobile in which they were at fault. Were you paid
> the replacement cost of the bike, or did they try to depreciate it?

Replacement cost of bike + helmet + fenders for me. The injury
settlement was separate of course.

It helped to have a witness that it was 100% the other fellows fault.
While he driving the company car... For an insurance company.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
--Matt Groening

Date: 26 Aug 2006 02:37:31
From: Alex Webster
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

In article <bs84s3-2ic.ln1@zuvembi.homelinux.org >, Dane Buson
<dane@unseen.edu > wrote:

> Alex Webster <NoUCE@address.invalid> wrote:
> > I'm looking for some anecdotal information on experiences folks have
> > had with insurance settlements for road bike damage after a wreck
> > perpetrated by an automobile in which they were at fault. Were you paid
> > the replacement cost of the bike, or did they try to depreciate it?
>
> Replacement cost of bike + helmet + fenders for me. The injury
> settlement was separate of course.
>
> It helped to have a witness that it was 100% the other fellows fault.

I also have a witness.

> While he driving the company car... For an insurance company.

Boy some people have all the luck :-)

Thanks for the info.

Alex

Date: 24 Aug 2006 22:29:29
From: Dennis P. Harris
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 03:37:54 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, Alex
Webster <NoUCE@address.invalid > wrote:

> I sent an estimate of replacement cost for bike (which is what they had
> requested) about a month ago, and after hearing nothing and then about
> a week of waiting for a return call to my phone message requests for
> status, finally was able to catch the insurance rep at her desk. She
> apologized for the lack of response, she was doing research on the
> internet for the bike's value and hadn't found anything comparable yet.
> It's clear she's been spending the month on the 'net trying to try to
> get a value for it by catching my bike's particular year and model
> being offered for sale by someone on Ebay or wherever it might show up
> (since, unlike a car, you don't have blue book depreciation schedules
> on bikes).
>
> Naturally I'm not happy about this, so I'd be grateful for any comments
> on how typical my experience is in this case, and how much of a fuss I
> should put up.

Add up the cost of a NEW bike of the same make and quality and
all of your add-ons at current prices. Tell the adjuster that
you're willing to settle for that total.

If she balks, tell her that your next call will be to (name of
local well known personal injury attorney). If she still
refuses, tell her that the next call will be from your lawyer,
and then retain one.

BTW, how is that pain in your shoulder now? <g >

Date: 24 Aug 2006 18:30:01
From: Will
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

Alex Webster wrote:
> Thanks for the replies so far. Keep them coming! A bit more detail:
>
> The check for the bike in the first incident was for personal property
> settlement. I only signed off on that. Medical costs and pain and
> suffering were held open and dealt with later. Hence their eagerness to
> appear to be nice.
>
> Current incident: There are medical costs: Ambulance, emergency room,
> CAT scans, X-rays, MRI for head and neck, Tegaderm dressings for road
> rash (man, that stuff's expensive, but it sure does work), pain med.
> prescriptions, etc.; I do have permanent physical injuries (cartilage
> tear) that will not worsen over time; surgery is optional depending
> upon whether I want to live with the reduced strength and pain. Doctor
> estimates 80% improvement with surgery. I am in an assessment period to
> see how I'm "living with it" before I decide whether to undergo the
> surgery. There will definitely be upcoming discussions on medical and
> pain and suffering settlement.
>
> Neither case was/is serious enough for a personal injury attorney to
> get involved. Can't say I disagree with that. There are frankly other
> people with more serious situations for whom they need to reserve their
> time than a case like mine, which in their mind is more on the order of
> harassing an insurance company.
>
> Alex

Seems to me that if they get the idea that you are ready to jump back
aboard a bike you'll be disputing the seriousness of your injuries
next. Might be good to chill out; get your medical straightened out,
then press them on the bike. It's hard for me to imagine they'd be
bargaining on the bike. A freaking car bumper replacement plus a spot
of paint would cost them more than a Serotta. What gives?

Please share the name of this company, so we'll know who to avoid for
buying auto or personal property coverage.

Date: 26 Aug 2006 02:42:13
From: Alex Webster
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

In article <1156469401.356385.231200@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com >, Will
<waller.william@gmail.com > wrote:

> Please share the name of this company, so we'll know who to avoid for
> buying auto or personal property coverage.

It is State Farm.

Alex

Date: 25 Aug 2006 00:41:58
From: Alex Webster
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

Thanks for the replies so far. Keep them coming! A bit more detail:

The check for the bike in the first incident was for personal property
settlement. I only signed off on that. Medical costs and pain and
suffering were held open and dealt with later. Hence their eagerness to
appear to be nice.

Current incident: There are medical costs: Ambulance, emergency room,
CAT scans, X-rays, MRI for head and neck, Tegaderm dressings for road
rash (man, that stuff's expensive, but it sure does work), pain med.
prescriptions, etc.; I do have permanent physical injuries (cartilage
tear) that will not worsen over time; surgery is optional depending
upon whether I want to live with the reduced strength and pain. Doctor
estimates 80% improvement with surgery. I am in an assessment period to
see how I'm "living with it" before I decide whether to undergo the
surgery. There will definitely be upcoming discussions on medical and
pain and suffering settlement.

Neither case was/is serious enough for a personal injury attorney to
get involved. Can't say I disagree with that. There are frankly other
people with more serious situations for whom they need to reserve their
time than a case like mine, which in their mind is more on the order of
harassing an insurance company.

Alex

Date: 24 Aug 2006 22:35:32
From: Dennis P. Harris
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:41:58 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, Alex
Webster <NoUCE@address.invalid > wrote:

> I do have permanent physical injuries (cartilage
> tear) that will not worsen over time; surgery is optional depending
> upon whether I want to live with the reduced strength and pain. Doctor
> estimates 80% improvement with surgery. I am in an assessment period to
> see how I'm "living with it" before I decide whether to undergo the
> surgery. There will definitely be upcoming discussions on medical and
> pain and suffering settlement.
>
Let me assure you, as the victim of a torn meniscus you DO it
repaired as soon as possible. You do NOT want the pain the rest
of your life, because it often gets worse later. Been there,
done that.

> Neither case was/is serious enough for a personal injury attorney to
> get involved.

Read my lips: the insurance company has throngs of lawyers to
throw at you to lowball your injuries and any payment. YOU NEED
A GOOD PERSONAL INJURY LAWYER.

I'm not a great fan of lawyers, but insurance companies simply
don't take folks like you seriously if you don't have one.

Been there, done that too. GET A LAWYER.

Date: 24 Aug 2006 14:44:57
From:
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

"The 2nd insurance company sounds like it's just trying to blow you
off- go get the best f-ing lawyer you can, sue the shit out of 'em
including legal fees."

You've been watching too much Court TV. What makes you think a lawyer
would even WANT to file such a case? The OP does not say he suffered
significant bodily injury, so probably the only damages are the P.D.
for the bike, which is not enough money to justify an attorney's
involvement. And what do you mean by "legal fees"? The OP is NOT
going to be able to recover his attorney's fees in a negligence case.
And he would be able to recover his court filing fees only if he's the
prevailing party on an actual judgment. But if the insurance carrier
did settle the case, there wouldn't be any judgment, and therefore no
way for the OP to recover his filing fees. And even if a lawyer DID
take the case based only on the bike PD (not too likely), who's going
to pay the lawyer? The OP? And after he pays his lawyer, how's he
going to buy a new bike? You really should know what you're talking
about before you post such nonsense.

Date: 24 Aug 2006 10:25:55
From: gds
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

My experience was similar to some above. I was not seriusly injured and
the adjuster was very happy to pay for full costs of repair for my
signature waiving future claims.

Of course, if you are injured that will complicate the negotiation.

Date: 24 Aug 2006 09:47:38
From: Pat Lamb
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

Date: 24 Aug 2006 19:07:00
From: wvantwiller
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

Pat Lamb <pdl678NOSPAM@comcast.net > wrote in
news:4l5sgcFdcbuU1@individual.net:

> Alex Webster wrote:
>> I'm looking for some anecdotal information on experiences folks have
>> had with insurance settlements for road bike damage after a wreck
>> perpetrated by an automobile in which they were at fault. Were you
>> paid the replacement cost of the bike, or did they try to depreciate
>> it?
>>
>> In my case there is no contributory negligence on my part; the auto
>> driver was written up in the accident report as completely at fault.
>>
>
> Cager was at fault in my case, too. My bike wasn't totaled, but the
> insurance adjuster very cheerfully paid all repair costs -- about
> $400, IIRC, on a bike that originally cost $600 (but was closer to a
> $1,000 bike with the upgrades I made to it). No questions asked, she
> just took the repair ticket and added the bottom line to the check she
> cut.
>
> Pat

Any piddling cash extras that will preclude future BIG dollar lawsuits
for personal injury are a price they're willing to pay.

Just keeping the case open is costing them money, especially if it
carries over into a new accounting period. They especially get antsy if
any kind of personal injury was involved.

Those are impressions that come from an interesting family reunion
conversation I listened in on between an insurance adjuster and a brace
of personal liability attorneys who represent several well-thought-of
insurance companies on a routine basis, and who also serve on boards of
several hospitals in the fractious state of New Jersey.

Date: 23 Aug 2006 22:25:30
From: peter
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

Alex Webster wrote:

> It's clear she's been spending the month on the 'net trying to try to
> get a value for it by catching my bike's particular year and model
> being offered for sale by someone on Ebay or wherever it might show up
> (since, unlike a car, you don't have blue book depreciation schedules
> on bikes).
>
> Naturally I'm not happy about this, so I'd be grateful for any comments
> on how typical my experience is in this case, and how much of a fuss I
> should put up.

My experience was more like your first case - the insurance company
really wanted to get my signature on the sheet of paper that said I was
accepting this check as full compensation and thereby eliminating the
chance that I'd later claim hidden back ailments, etc. I gave them a
bike shop estimate for an equivalent bike model and they had a check
for me the next day in exchange for the smashed bike and my signature.

Your current scenario above doesn't really make sense to me since the
insurance company has a lot more potential loss if they aggravate the
victim enough so they go for medical and pain&suffering damages in
addition to the bike material damage.

And, also unlike a car, you need to find a replacement bike that's a
good match to your body size and proportions. That makes it rather
unreasonable to expect you to be able to find a used bike that's a
decent replacement for your previous one.

Maybe you could give them the bike shop's daily rental fee for a decent
bike and suggest that any delays on their part will require them to add
those figures to the eventual settlement.

Date: 25 Aug 2006 04:46:36
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

> Maybe you could give them the bike shop's daily rental fee for a decent
> bike and suggest that any delays on their part will require them to add
> those figures to the eventual settlement.

No maybe about it; that's an excellent, and reasonable, strategy. The
insurance company has an obligation to take care of you in a reasonable time
frame, and even if that time frame is relatively short, you're entirely
within reason to let them know that you'll be obtaining a rental bike if
they don't provide you with one by "x" date. This assumes, of course, that
you've done all of your homework and they can't come back and claim that it
was you, not them, that was dragging feet.

Also, even though an accident might seem cut-and-dry (that you had no
negligent involvement), you're still better off if you provide a one-page
sumy of what happened, *including* photos & diagrams. It's amazing how
much more quickly they settle claims when presented with that sort of thing;
it lets them know that you're not about to let things slide, and that you've
already got documentation that avoids the fuzziness of passing time.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"peter" <prathman@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:1156397130.650853.50210@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Alex Webster wrote:
>
>> It's clear she's been spending the month on the 'net trying to try to
>> get a value for it by catching my bike's particular year and model
>> being offered for sale by someone on Ebay or wherever it might show up
>> (since, unlike a car, you don't have blue book depreciation schedules
>> on bikes).
>>
>> Naturally I'm not happy about this, so I'd be grateful for any comments
>> on how typical my experience is in this case, and how much of a fuss I
>> should put up.
>
> My experience was more like your first case - the insurance company
> really wanted to get my signature on the sheet of paper that said I was
> accepting this check as full compensation and thereby eliminating the
> chance that I'd later claim hidden back ailments, etc. I gave them a
> bike shop estimate for an equivalent bike model and they had a check
> for me the next day in exchange for the smashed bike and my signature.
>
> Your current scenario above doesn't really make sense to me since the
> insurance company has a lot more potential loss if they aggravate the
> victim enough so they go for medical and pain&suffering damages in
> addition to the bike material damage.
>
> And, also unlike a car, you need to find a replacement bike that's a
> good match to your body size and proportions. That makes it rather
> unreasonable to expect you to be able to find a used bike that's a
> decent replacement for your previous one.
>
> Maybe you could give them the bike shop's daily rental fee for a decent
> bike and suggest that any delays on their part will require them to add
> those figures to the eventual settlement.
>

Date: 25 Aug 2006 05:37:12
From: Alex Webster
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

In article <MgvHg.2845$yO7.2174@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com >, Mike
Jacoubowsky <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote:

> Also, even though an accident might seem cut-and-dry (that you had no
> negligent involvement), you're still better off if you provide a one-page
> sumy of what happened, *including* photos & diagrams. It's amazing how
> much more quickly they settle claims when presented with that sort of thing;
> it lets them know that you're not about to let things slide, and that you've
> already got documentation that avoids the fuzziness of passing time.

Oh, I have a police report, photos of the area where it happened,
photos of the dent in his car, photos of my fresh raw bright-red
scraped-up self, the cracked helmet, the shredded skinsuit, the ripped
gloves, you get the picture.

No fuzziness of passing time either. I know the gear I was in when hit
(and have a picture of it :-), the speed I was going at that point
(20-22 mph) as I cranked up to speed from a standing stop at a red
light where I was first in the line of autos, how many turns of the
cranks between each pair of STI clicks through the gears to get to that
gear and speed at the point of impact, the conditions of the road, the
blow-by-blow of the appearance of his right front quarter panel
immediately to my left and I do mean immediately to my left, my lean to
the right to avoid having his passenger rear-view mirror hook my
handlebars, the lean back upright to avoid falling but unfortunately he
hadn't cleared, the impact with his right rear quarter panel, the bike
tailing out from underneath me to the right as I sprawled forward...you
get the picture.

And with my 36 years of experience with road-biking, I have no doubt
that I can be a compelling witness on the stand...and they'll get the
message soon enough that if that's how they want to play it, we can get
there.

All to be revealed in its own good time.

What I don't know is how prevalent is the practice of depreciating a
bicycle's value in an insurance claim. So far it's looking like it is a
bit out of line.

Thanks,
Alex

Date: 24 Aug 2006 04:41:20
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences

Alex Webster wrote:
> I'm looking for some anecdotal information on experiences folks have
> had with insurance settlements for road bike damage after a wreck
> perpetrated by an automobile in which they were at fault. Were you
> paid the replacement cost of the bike, or did they try to depreciate
> it?
>
> In my case there is no contributory negligence on my part; the auto
> driver was written up in the accident report as completely at fault.
>
> Regrettably, this is my second such experience. In the first case,
> again the auto driver completely at fault when they turned across my
> path and I T-boned them at about 25 mph, the driver's insurance
> company rep wrote a check as quickly as she could for the full amount
> of the bike shop estimate of replacing my bicycle, a double-butted
> SLX steel frame, which was completely destroyed with bent fork and
> frame. This was a good strategy on their part to try to earn my
> goodwill that they were nice folks looking out for me, considering
> the severity of the accident and the prospects for medical and pain
> and suffering settlements, or court action.
>
> In the current case, the accident was not as severe when they
> improperly passed me (and crossed the center yellow line) with about
> two inches to spare as I owned the center of the lane at 20 mph to
> protect myself in a congested situation, and I went down rather
> gracelessly. Many components were scraped up and the aluminum frame
> was dented: about a 7 year old bike with numerous upgrades of
> components, some of them less than a month old, extremely well cared
> for, no chips or flaws in the exceptional paint scheme, all decals
> intact. The dent cannot be repaired, and of course, it is now a frame
> that has been wrecked.
>
> I sent an estimate of replacement cost for bike (which is what they
> had requested) about a month ago, and after hearing nothing and then
> about a week of waiting for a return call to my phone message
> requests for status, finally was able to catch the insurance rep at
> her desk. She apologized for the lack of response, she was doing
> research on the internet for the bike's value and hadn't found
> anything comparable yet. It's clear she's been spending the month on
> the 'net trying to try to get a value for it by catching my bike's
> particular year and model being offered for sale by someone on Ebay
> or wherever it might show up (since, unlike a car, you don't have
> blue book depreciation schedules on bikes).
>
> Naturally I'm not happy about this, so I'd be grateful for any
> comments on how typical my experience is in this case, and how much
> of a fuss I should put up.

Blair P. Houghton will tell you to just go kill the guy. Ignore him. <eg >

Date: 23 Aug 2006 21:28:59
From:
Subject: Re: Insurance Settlement Experiences