Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

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Date: 03 Oct 2006 00:38:20
From: Xtowers
Subject: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

It was kind of funny. I got a call from my girlfriend, and she told me
that she was pulled over by a cop on her bike. The cop said that it was
illegal to bike against traffic, which made sense to me. The thing that
didn't make sense was that she was biking on a sidewalk, not the road.

This got me a little interested in the bicycle operation laws of
Minneapolis, Minnesota, where I live. I looked through the Minnesota
statutes, which said that it is illegal to bike against traffic.
However, all those laws applied to only the road, and not specifically
sidewalks. My girlfriend was also biking in an area where it was o.k.
to bike on the sidewalk, i.e. not a business district.

So I was wondering if this is as strange to others as it is to me. I
have never heard of a cop pulling over a bicyclist for biking against
traffic while on a sidewalk. I'm thinking that this cop was having a
slow night. I don't think I'll stop biking against traffic while on a
sidewalk, and if I do get stopped I think I will bring up this issue
with the peace officer who thinks I am doing wrong. I think before I do
that, though, I'll have to make sure I'm up to code on all the other
bicycle laws that I found out I was breaking while reading the
statutes. XD

-Xtowers

Date: 04 Oct 2006 12:02:48
From: Xtowers
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

JP wrote:
> Is she pretty?
> Cops will use any means at their disposal to meet cute girls,
> like the rest of us I guess.

Ooh, I didn't even consider this. This could be a real possibility, but
if this is true then shame on that cop. He is sending mixed messages
about bicycle laws. I mean my girlfriend is pretty darn cute, but then
again it was at 1:00am and it might have been hard to see her face, so
it is hard to be sure this is the reason why he stopped her.

Date: 04 Oct 2006 06:09:21
From: AustinMN
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Steve Daniels wrote:
> On 3 Oct 2006 18:36:21 -0700, against all advice, something
> compelled "Ted" <plpfoot@gmail.com>, to say:
>
> > I see no problem with traveling at walking speed on the sidewalk.
>
> You mean besides being rude beyond belief?

Since I believe it, it's not beyond belief. Mildly rude under certain
circumstances, but not "rude beyond belief."

Austin

Date: 04 Oct 2006 12:15:01
From: JP
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Is she pretty?
Cops will use any means at their disposal to meet cute girls,
like the rest of us I guess.

I've sailed through stop signs, red lights, the wrong way on
one way streets and across sidewalks with police as witnesses.
They could care less.
But I'm a lumpy middle-aged guy. My attraction factor must be pretty low.

Date: 04 Oct 2006 02:07:32
From:
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Steve Daniels wrote:
> On 3 Oct 2006 18:36:21 -0700, against all advice, something
> compelled "Ted" <plpfoot@gmail.com>, to say:
>
> > I see no problem with traveling at walking speed on the sidewalk.
>
>
> You mean besides being rude beyond belief?

'rude beyond belief'? Blowing snot on the donuts
is rude beyond belief. Sidewalk riding is something that
can be/is done safely and with consideration every day, even
by those who give speeches against it.

Sidewalks are extremely useful if you know how to
use them.

Robert

Date: 04 Oct 2006 02:03:26
From: Xtowers
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

r15757@aol.com wrote:
> landotter wrote:
>
> > Your girlfriend derserves every single citation she gets, even a
> > "reckless driving" charge would be in order. Sidewalks are for
> > *walking*. Duh. Streets are for vehicles. Brilliant way to get yourself
> > killed is to zoom through an intersection wrong way when riding on the
> > sidewalk.
> >
> > It's not funny or "aw, man, it's no biggie", nope, it's just downright
> > stupid. It's about 5 notches of stupid above driving drunk.
> >
> > This is of course assuming you're over 12 years old. In many
> > jurisdictions you may ride your "My little pony" bmx bike on the
> > sidewalk if you're under that age, and by the sound of things you may
> > be able to argue with a judge that you're 10--on an emotional level.
>
> Damn, give it a rest you ninnies.
>
> Sidewalk riding is no more dangerous than any other
> kind of riding, provided the cyclist recognizes the particular
> hazards involved.
>
> We all ride on sidewalks occasionally. That's part of the
> beauty of the bicycle, the ability to outperform in the
> pedestrian as well as vehicle realms. If you never ride
> sidewalks, you simply aren't riding enough.
>
> Scratch the surface of those who give anti-sidewalk
> speeches and you will find cyclists who occasionally
> ride sidewalks, when it is useful to them. You see,
> it's ok for them, the self-righteous safety ninnie, to
> do it, but not for anyone else.
>
> To the OP, I'm sorry you got rudely kneejerked
> on this newsgroup, you aren't the first.
> The cop was wrong, unless perhaps he observed
> her riding in a way that was particulary dangerous, besides
> her simply riding wrong way on the sidewalk, maybe
> he saw her cut somebody off or just looking
> particularly oblivious.
>
> Robert

I appreciate your courtesy Robert. And perhaps I should clarify a few
things. First of all I'll post a link to the most recent Minnesota
Statutes on Bicycle Operations (2005):

http://ros.leg.mn/stats/169/222.html

Second, maybe the circumstances under which my girlfriend was pulled
over. It was late at night, about 1:00am on a Monday night/Tuesday
morning. There was little or no traffic on the roads, or pedestrians on
the sidewalks. This area was a residential area. The sidewalk she was
riding on runs parallel to a one way street. There is a bike lane on
this one-way street, but it runs with the traffic. So my girlfriend
was, in effect, biking on the sidewalk in the opposite direction in
which the one-way street traffic is going. Hmm, maybe I can get a neat
visual:

________________________________________________________

------------------One Way Street -- > --> -->
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________
___________Bike Lane -- > --> -->____________________________

________________________________________________________
__________Side Walk___________ <-- <-- <-- My GF ___________

These were the circumstances under which my girlfriend was pulled over.
And I'm pretty sure that she has not been the only one to ride her bike
in this fashion. This street is near the university, and I see countles
people riding their bikes, in the same fashion as my girlfriend did, in
the day and night. I seriously doubt that any cyclists, if not very
few, have been pulled over for these reasons. I really think the cop
was bored, or ignorant, and pulled her over for the wrong reasons.

Third, I would like to explain what the cop said my girlfriend should
do instead of riding on the sidewalk. He said that she needed to ride
on a street that ran parallel to this street, but one block to the
north. Now, there isn't a bicycle path on this street, and most likely
she would have to ride on the street with the cars (I believe this
street goes through a business district that doesn't allow bike riding
on the sidewalks, so she would have to either ride in the street, or
walk her bike on the sidewalk and if she does that she might as well
just walk home).

Personally I don't like this. I feel much safer riding a bicycle on the
sidewalk. There have been countless times when I have been riding on a
bicycle lane or street and a car making a right turn pulls out in front
of me and slows down to turn forcing me to break quickly or hit the
car. I have also had many occasions where traffic has forced me to ride
dangerously close to parked cars, and I have been clipped by a person
opening their car door. It was not cool. I have not had near as many of
these close calls when riding on the sidewalk, and I don't think anyone
could convince me that riding on the street is safer than riding on the
sidewalk.

Next, I have to agree with Ted who also wrote on here (Thank you). I am
pretty sure that sidewalks cannot be one-directional. It would seem
silly to have one-way sidewalks.

Last I would like to comment on the issue of biking at sidewalks at a
walker's speed. If we did say it was ok to bike at a walker's speed,
then what about the joggers (I'm agreeing with Leo here)? Would they
have to jog on the road? Would there have to be speed limits put on
sidewalks? I don't think any city would spend the resources for
creating and enforcing city-wide sidewalk speed limits.

Ok that is all I wanted to write for now. I appreciate all the
responses, they have given me a lot to think about. Please comment
more. This discussion has gotten me so excited, I think I want to buy a
light and a bell for my bike. XD

-Xtowers

Date: 04 Oct 2006 09:22:03
From: bill
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Xtowers wrote:
> r15757@aol.com wrote:
>> landotter wrote:
>>
>>> Your girlfriend derserves every single citation she gets, even a
>>> "reckless driving" charge would be in order. Sidewalks are for
>>> *walking*. Duh. Streets are for vehicles. Brilliant way to get yourself
>>> killed is to zoom through an intersection wrong way when riding on the
>>> sidewalk.
>>>
>>> It's not funny or "aw, man, it's no biggie", nope, it's just downright
>>> stupid. It's about 5 notches of stupid above driving drunk.
>>>
>>> This is of course assuming you're over 12 years old. In many
>>> jurisdictions you may ride your "My little pony" bmx bike on the
>>> sidewalk if you're under that age, and by the sound of things you may
>>> be able to argue with a judge that you're 10--on an emotional level.
>> Damn, give it a rest you ninnies.
>>
>> Sidewalk riding is no more dangerous than any other
>> kind of riding, provided the cyclist recognizes the particular
>> hazards involved.
>>
>> We all ride on sidewalks occasionally. That's part of the
>> beauty of the bicycle, the ability to outperform in the
>> pedestrian as well as vehicle realms. If you never ride
>> sidewalks, you simply aren't riding enough.
>>
>> Scratch the surface of those who give anti-sidewalk
>> speeches and you will find cyclists who occasionally
>> ride sidewalks, when it is useful to them. You see,
>> it's ok for them, the self-righteous safety ninnie, to
>> do it, but not for anyone else.
>>
>> To the OP, I'm sorry you got rudely kneejerked
>> on this newsgroup, you aren't the first.
>> The cop was wrong, unless perhaps he observed
>> her riding in a way that was particulary dangerous, besides
>> her simply riding wrong way on the sidewalk, maybe
>> he saw her cut somebody off or just looking
>> particularly oblivious.
>>
>> Robert
>
> I appreciate your courtesy Robert. And perhaps I should clarify a few
> things. First of all I'll post a link to the most recent Minnesota
> Statutes on Bicycle Operations (2005):
>
> http://ros.leg.mn/stats/169/222.html
>
> Second, maybe the circumstances under which my girlfriend was pulled
> over. It was late at night, about 1:00am on a Monday night/Tuesday
> morning. There was little or no traffic on the roads, or pedestrians on
> the sidewalks. This area was a residential area. The sidewalk she was
> riding on runs parallel to a one way street. There is a bike lane on
> this one-way street, but it runs with the traffic. So my girlfriend
> was, in effect, biking on the sidewalk in the opposite direction in
> which the one-way street traffic is going. Hmm, maybe I can get a neat
> visual:
>
>
> ________________________________________________________
>
> ------------------One Way Street --> --> -->
> ----------------------------------------
> ________________________________________________________
> ___________Bike Lane --> --> -->____________________________
>
> ________________________________________________________
> __________Side Walk___________ <-- <-- <-- My GF ___________
>
> These were the circumstances under which my girlfriend was pulled over.
> And I'm pretty sure that she has not been the only one to ride her bike
> in this fashion. This street is near the university, and I see countles
> people riding their bikes, in the same fashion as my girlfriend did, in
> the day and night. I seriously doubt that any cyclists, if not very
> few, have been pulled over for these reasons. I really think the cop
> was bored, or ignorant, and pulled her over for the wrong reasons.

Now I am convinced the cop was just an anal asshole. The bike lane would
have been against traffic too so what was she supposed to do, walk the
wrong way?
>
> Third, I would like to explain what the cop said my girlfriend should
> do instead of riding on the sidewalk. He said that she needed to ride
> on a street that ran parallel to this street, but one block to the
> north. Now, there isn't a bicycle path on this street, and most likely
> she would have to ride on the street with the cars (I believe this
> street goes through a business district that doesn't allow bike riding
> on the sidewalks, so she would have to either ride in the street, or
> walk her bike on the sidewalk and if she does that she might as well
> just walk home).
>
> Personally I don't like this. I feel much safer riding a bicycle on the
> sidewalk. There have been countless times when I have been riding on a
> bicycle lane or street and a car making a right turn pulls out in front
> of me and slows down to turn forcing me to break quickly or hit the
> car. I have also had many occasions where traffic has forced me to ride
> dangerously close to parked cars, and I have been clipped by a person
> opening their car door. It was not cool. I have not had near as many of
> these close calls when riding on the sidewalk, and I don't think anyone
> could convince me that riding on the street is safer than riding on the
> sidewalk.

If it is 1:00 in the morning I am damn well going to be on the sidewalk
at all times it is possible. That is prime time for drunk drivers and
the next road over would have put her on the actual pavement with them.
>
> Next, I have to agree with Ted who also wrote on here (Thank you). I am
> pretty sure that sidewalks cannot be one-directional. It would seem
> silly to have one-way sidewalks.
>
> Last I would like to comment on the issue of biking at sidewalks at a
> walker's speed. If we did say it was ok to bike at a walker's speed,
> then what about the joggers (I'm agreeing with Leo here)? Would they
> have to jog on the road? Would there have to be speed limits put on
> sidewalks? I don't think any city would spend the resources for
> creating and enforcing city-wide sidewalk speed limits.
>
> Ok that is all I wanted to write for now. I appreciate all the
> responses, they have given me a lot to think about. Please comment
> more. This discussion has gotten me so excited, I think I want to buy a
> light and a bell for my bike. XD
>
> -Xtowers
>
I agree with you that if a slow bike ride gets her pulled over then
there should be no tolerance for those ignorant wrong way joggers.
Bill Baka

Date: 03 Oct 2006 19:37:05
From:
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Leo Lichtman wrote:
> "Ted" wrote: (clip) I see no problem with traveling at walking speed =
on
> the sidewalk. The problem is when one exceeds that speed one becomes a
> hazard.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Part of the enjoyment if posting and reading here is the exploration of
> hypothetical side issues. It is in that spirit that I bring this up: Wo=
uld
> a "pedestrian" running at, say, 10 mph be breaking the law?

Probably not breaking a specific law, in most cases.

> If he ran into
> a little old lady, knocking her down, with resulting serious head injury,
> would he be guilty of a crime?

IMNAL, but ISTM there might be some "public endangerment" statute that
could come into play, depending on the jurisdiction.

> Would this be worse than having a cyclist do the same thing?

If both were at exactly 10 mph, it would probably be no worse - or
negligibly worse. But there are differences.

Part of the difference is that bikes can easily exceed the speed of
runners. Thus, bike-ped impacts can easily be worse than ped-ped
impacts.

Another difference is that bikes are not as maneurverable as peds. A
runner can stop or dodge sideways far easier than a cyclist.

And those factors affect the cyclist's danger. Specifically, there are
many situations where a normal-speed cyclist on a sidewalk can be hurt
by a driver he's surprised. That can occur at any driveway crossing
the sidewalk, or at any crosswalk the cyclist enters from the sidewalk.

This doesn't mean that no cyclist can ever safely use any sidewalk. It
does mean, however, that there are many cyclists thinking they're
perfectly safe on the sidewalk, whereas they are actually in greater
danger than if they rode properly on the street.

IIRC, =EF=BB=BFWachtel, A., & Lewiston, D. (1994). Risk factors for
bicycle-motor vehicle collisions at intersections. I T E Journal,
64(9), 30-35 is one paper that addresses this.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 03 Oct 2006 18:36:21
From: Ted
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Aren't sidewalks omnidirectional? Can you walk the wrong
direction on a sidewalk too?
I see no problem with traveling at walking speed on the sidewalk.
The problem is when one exceeds that speed one becomes a hazard.

Ted.

Date: 03 Oct 2006 20:55:55
From: Steve Daniels
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

On 3 Oct 2006 18:36:21 -0700, against all advice, something
compelled "Ted" <plpfoot@gmail.com >, to say:

> I see no problem with traveling at walking speed on the sidewalk.

You mean besides being rude beyond belief?

Date: 04 Oct 2006 09:23:43
From: bill
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Date: 04 Oct 2006 01:59:27
From: Leo Lichtman
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

"Ted" wrote: (clip) I see no problem with traveling at walking speed on
the sidewalk. The problem is when one exceeds that speed one becomes a
hazard.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Part of the enjoyment if posting and reading here is the exploration of
hypothetical side issues. It is in that spirit that I bring this up: Would
a "pedestrian" running at, say, 10 mph be breaking the law? If he ran into
a little old lady, knocking her down, with resulting serious head injury,
would he be guilty of a crime? Would this be worse than having a cyclist do
the same thing?

Date: 04 Oct 2006 14:22:45
From: Cathy Kearns
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

"Leo Lichtman" <l.lichtman@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message
news:3AEUg.20372$QZ1.12067@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Ted" wrote: (clip) I see no problem with traveling at walking speed
on
> the sidewalk. The problem is when one exceeds that speed one becomes a
> hazard.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Part of the enjoyment if posting and reading here is the exploration of
> hypothetical side issues. It is in that spirit that I bring this up:
Would
> a "pedestrian" running at, say, 10 mph be breaking the law? If he ran
into
> a little old lady, knocking her down, with resulting serious head injury,
> would he be guilty of a crime? Would this be worse than having a cyclist
do
> the same thing?

I have been on beach walks (sidewalks fronting the ocean) that have local
municipal codes posted saying slower walkers have right of way, and runners
need to yield to walkers.

Date: 03 Oct 2006 14:12:39
From:
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com wrote:
> >Sidewalk riding is no more dangerous than any other
> >kind of riding, provided the cyclist recognizes the particular
> >hazards involved.
>
> Studies prove you wrong.

Studies prove that sidewalk riding is dangerous for
people who recognize the special hazards involved?
I don't think so.

> >We all ride on sidewalks occasionally. That's part of the
> >beauty of the bicycle, the ability to outperform in the
> >pedestrian as well as vehicle realms. If you never ride
> >sidewalks, you simply aren't riding enough.
> >
> >Scratch the surface of those who give anti-sidewalk
> >speeches and you will find cyclists who occasionally
> >ride sidewalks, when it is useful to them. You see,
> >it's ok for them, the self-righteous safety ninnie, to
> >do it, but not for anyone else.
> >
> >To the OP, I'm sorry you got rudely kneejerked
> >on this newsgroup, you aren't the first.
> >The cop was wrong,
>
> You can quote the law in the orginal poster's jurisdiction?

Probably, if I cared to Google it. There are no
laws anywhere that I know of prohibiting riding
wrong way on the sidewalk. There are places where
it's legal to ride on the sidewalk and places where
it's not.

My guess is we're not getting the entire story.
Perhaps by sidewalk what is really meant is
bike lane.

Robert

Date: 03 Oct 2006 21:16:08
From:
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

On 3 Oct 2006 14:12:39 -0700, r15757@aol.com wrote:

>
>jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com wrote:
>> >Sidewalk riding is no more dangerous than any other
>> >kind of riding, provided the cyclist recognizes the particular
>> >hazards involved.
>>
>> Studies prove you wrong.
>
>Studies prove that sidewalk riding is dangerous for
>people who recognize the special hazards involved?
>I don't think so.

It is not only the cyclists who are at greater risk of injury when
traveling on the sidewalk.

Date: 03 Oct 2006 07:36:06
From:
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

landotter wrote:

> Your girlfriend derserves every single citation she gets, even a
> "reckless driving" charge would be in order. Sidewalks are for
> *walking*. Duh. Streets are for vehicles. Brilliant way to get yourself
> killed is to zoom through an intersection wrong way when riding on the
> sidewalk.
>
> It's not funny or "aw, man, it's no biggie", nope, it's just downright
> stupid. It's about 5 notches of stupid above driving drunk.
>
> This is of course assuming you're over 12 years old. In many
> jurisdictions you may ride your "My little pony" bmx bike on the
> sidewalk if you're under that age, and by the sound of things you may
> be able to argue with a judge that you're 10--on an emotional level.

Damn, give it a rest you ninnies.

Sidewalk riding is no more dangerous than any other
kind of riding, provided the cyclist recognizes the particular
hazards involved.

We all ride on sidewalks occasionally. That's part of the
beauty of the bicycle, the ability to outperform in the
pedestrian as well as vehicle realms. If you never ride
sidewalks, you simply aren't riding enough.

Scratch the surface of those who give anti-sidewalk
speeches and you will find cyclists who occasionally
ride sidewalks, when it is useful to them. You see,
it's ok for them, the self-righteous safety ninnie, to
do it, but not for anyone else.

To the OP, I'm sorry you got rudely kneejerked
on this newsgroup, you aren't the first.
The cop was wrong, unless perhaps he observed
her riding in a way that was particulary dangerous, besides
her simply riding wrong way on the sidewalk, maybe
he saw her cut somebody off or just looking
particularly oblivious.

Robert

Date: 03 Oct 2006 12:59:29
From: Set
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

On 3 Oct 2006 07:36:06 -0700, r15757@aol.com wrote:

>landotter wrote:
>
>> Your girlfriend derserves every single citation she gets, even a
>> "reckless driving" charge would be in order. Sidewalks are for
>> *walking*. Duh. Streets are for vehicles. Brilliant way to get yourself
>> killed is to zoom through an intersection wrong way when riding on the
>> sidewalk.
>>
>> It's not funny or "aw, man, it's no biggie", nope, it's just downright
>> stupid. It's about 5 notches of stupid above driving drunk.
>>
>> This is of course assuming you're over 12 years old. In many
>> jurisdictions you may ride your "My little pony" bmx bike on the
>> sidewalk if you're under that age, and by the sound of things you may
>> be able to argue with a judge that you're 10--on an emotional level.
>
>Damn, give it a rest you ninnies.
>
>Sidewalk riding is no more dangerous than any other
>kind of riding, provided the cyclist recognizes the particular
>hazards involved.
>
>We all ride on sidewalks occasionally. That's part of the
>beauty of the bicycle, the ability to outperform in the
>pedestrian as well as vehicle realms. If you never ride
>sidewalks, you simply aren't riding enough.
>
>Scratch the surface of those who give anti-sidewalk
>speeches and you will find cyclists who occasionally
>ride sidewalks, when it is useful to them. You see,
>it's ok for them, the self-righteous safety ninnie, to
>do it, but not for anyone else.
>
>To the OP, I'm sorry you got rudely kneejerked
>on this newsgroup, you aren't the first.
>The cop was wrong, unless perhaps he observed
>her riding in a way that was particulary dangerous, besides
>her simply riding wrong way on the sidewalk, maybe
>he saw her cut somebody off or just looking
>particularly oblivious.
>
>Robert

Indeed. Some cities even plan for sidewalk riding both directions. (the
sidewalks are double wide). Not very clever, imo, but still they're out
there.

<www.vbgov.com/dept/parks/pdfs/dsgndev/bikeplanfacilitystandards.pdf >

(page 6)

Date: 03 Oct 2006 19:11:49
From: mark
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Set wrote:

>
> Indeed. Some cities even plan for sidewalk riding both directions. (the
> sidewalks are double wide). Not very clever, imo, but still they're out
> there.
>
> <www.vbgov.com/dept/parks/pdfs/dsgndev/bikeplanfacilitystandards.pdf>
>
> (page 6)
>

This is exactly what my town does, a double width shared use path on
either side of a 4 lane thoroughfare. I ride in the roadway next to it
to get to work. The local cops have pulled people over for passing too
close to me.

k

Date: 03 Oct 2006 18:08:32
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 19:11:49 +0000, k wrote:

> Set wrote:
>
>
>> Indeed. Some cities even plan for sidewalk riding both directions. (the
>> sidewalks are double wide). Not very clever, imo, but still they're out
>> there.
>>
>> <www.vbgov.com/dept/parks/pdfs/dsgndev/bikeplanfacilitystandards.pdf>
>>
>> (page 6)
>>
>>
> This is exactly what my town does, a double width shared use path on
> either side of a 4 lane thoroughfare. I ride in the roadway next to it
> to get to work.

Well, building "bike paths" alongside a road is a good way to get TEA
grants to pay for sidewalks!

We have a situation like that too. More than one traffic engineer has
admitted to me that they would rather have narrower sidewalks, with
the extra width devoted to wide outside traffic lanes for cyclists.

Matt O.

Date: 03 Oct 2006 12:12:35
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

r15757@aol.com wrote:
:: landotter wrote:
::
::: Your girlfriend derserves every single citation she gets, even a
::: "reckless driving" charge would be in order. Sidewalks are for
::: *walking*. Duh. Streets are for vehicles. Brilliant way to get
::: yourself killed is to zoom through an intersection wrong way when
::: riding on the sidewalk.
:::
::: It's not funny or "aw, man, it's no biggie", nope, it's just
::: downright stupid. It's about 5 notches of stupid above driving
::: drunk.
:::
::: This is of course assuming you're over 12 years old. In many
::: jurisdictions you may ride your "My little pony" bmx bike on the
::: sidewalk if you're under that age, and by the sound of things you
::: may be able to argue with a judge that you're 10--on an emotional
::: level.
::
:: Damn, give it a rest you ninnies.
::
:: Sidewalk riding is no more dangerous than any other
:: kind of riding, provided the cyclist recognizes the particular
:: hazards involved.

I agree.

::
:: We all ride on sidewalks occasionally. That's part of the
:: beauty of the bicycle, the ability to outperform in the
:: pedestrian as well as vehicle realms. If you never ride
:: sidewalks, you simply aren't riding enough.

I've done it. I've also ridden the wrong way on a road, too. The danger is
greater and increases ones risk of getting hurt, but one can do it without
getting hurt.

::
:: Scratch the surface of those who give anti-sidewalk
:: speeches and you will find cyclists who occasionally
:: ride sidewalks, when it is useful to them. You see,
:: it's ok for them, the self-righteous safety ninnie, to
:: do it, but not for anyone else.

Well, from the standpoint of recommending proper riding habits, I say opt
for safely. Make sure people understand why it's more risky to WWR or ROSW.
Then, if they choose to do so, at least they know to be on the lookout.
Those are not times to be lost in your own thoughts.

::
:: To the OP, I'm sorry you got rudely kneejerked
:: on this newsgroup, you aren't the first.
:: The cop was wrong, unless perhaps he observed
:: her riding in a way that was particulary dangerous, besides
:: her simply riding wrong way on the sidewalk, maybe
:: he saw her cut somebody off or just looking
:: particularly oblivious.

Well, I'd guess the oblivious part first.

Date: 03 Oct 2006 15:17:30
From:
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

On 3 Oct 2006 07:36:06 -0700, r15757@aol.com wrote:

>landotter wrote:
>
>> Your girlfriend derserves every single citation she gets, even a
>> "reckless driving" charge would be in order. Sidewalks are for
>> *walking*. Duh. Streets are for vehicles. Brilliant way to get yourself
>> killed is to zoom through an intersection wrong way when riding on the
>> sidewalk.
>>
>> It's not funny or "aw, man, it's no biggie", nope, it's just downright
>> stupid. It's about 5 notches of stupid above driving drunk.
>>
>> This is of course assuming you're over 12 years old. In many
>> jurisdictions you may ride your "My little pony" bmx bike on the
>> sidewalk if you're under that age, and by the sound of things you may
>> be able to argue with a judge that you're 10--on an emotional level.
>
>Damn, give it a rest you ninnies.
>
>Sidewalk riding is no more dangerous than any other
>kind of riding, provided the cyclist recognizes the particular
>hazards involved.

Studies prove you wrong.

>
>We all ride on sidewalks occasionally. That's part of the
>beauty of the bicycle, the ability to outperform in the
>pedestrian as well as vehicle realms. If you never ride
>sidewalks, you simply aren't riding enough.
>
>Scratch the surface of those who give anti-sidewalk
>speeches and you will find cyclists who occasionally
>ride sidewalks, when it is useful to them. You see,
>it's ok for them, the self-righteous safety ninnie, to
>do it, but not for anyone else.
>
>To the OP, I'm sorry you got rudely kneejerked
>on this newsgroup, you aren't the first.
>The cop was wrong,

You can quote the law in the orginal poster's jurisdiction?

Date: 03 Oct 2006 06:40:55
From: AustinMN
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Xtowers wrote:
> It was kind of funny.

Actually, no, not particularly.

> I got a call from my girlfriend, and she told me
> that she was pulled over by a cop on her bike. The cop said that it was
> illegal to bike against traffic, which made sense to me. The thing that
> didn't make sense was that she was biking on a sidewalk, not the road.

Whether it is legal to cycle on the sidewalk varies. Cycling on the
sidewalk is always a bad idea unless the cyclist is too young to
understand basic traffic laws (and then should be restricted to walking
speeds).

What your girlfrined was doing was almost certanly not illegal, but was
certanly unwise, no almost about it.

Austin (lives and works in Metro Twin Cities)

Date: 10 Oct 2006 18:15:37
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

On 3 Oct 2006 06:40:55 -0700, "AustinMN" <tacooper260@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>Whether it is legal to cycle on the sidewalk varies. Cycling on the
>sidewalk is always a bad idea

Sorry, but NO. Near here, there is a curved, busy four-lane road
which has tall curbs everywhere with no paved shoulder and fairly
narrow lanes. It has a sidewalk down one side only. Because of the
curves, the roadside bushes and other landcaping, and the density of
traffic, it is bloody damn near to suicide to ride in the traffic lane
for a good portion of the day on that road. There is no good
alternate route available, unfortunately. Since the sidewalk is on
one side only, the traffic on that sidewalk is by necessity
two-way...and bikes typically are the only thing on it, as it
traverses a neighborhood full of people who willingly hop in their
SUVs to go two blocks to the liquor store to get more vermouth for
their tinis.

>What your girlfrined was doing was almost certanly not illegal, but was
>certanly unwise, no almost about it.

Without more information concerning the environment involved, this
judgement is foolish.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Date: 03 Oct 2006 05:51:44
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Xtowers wrote:
> It was kind of funny. I got a call from my girlfriend, and she told me
> that she was pulled over by a cop on her bike. The cop said that it was
> illegal to bike against traffic, which made sense to me. The thing that
> didn't make sense was that she was biking on a sidewalk, not the road.
>
> This got me a little interested in the bicycle operation laws of
> Minneapolis, Minnesota, where I live. I looked through the Minnesota
> statutes, which said that it is illegal to bike against traffic.
> However, all those laws applied to only the road, and not specifically
> sidewalks. My girlfriend was also biking in an area where it was o.k.
> to bike on the sidewalk, i.e. not a business district.
>
> So I was wondering if this is as strange to others as it is to me. I
> have never heard of a cop pulling over a bicyclist for biking against
> traffic while on a sidewalk. I'm thinking that this cop was having a
> slow night. I don't think I'll stop biking against traffic while on a
> sidewalk, and if I do get stopped I think I will bring up this issue
> with the peace officer who thinks I am doing wrong. I think before I do
> that, though, I'll have to make sure I'm up to code on all the other
> bicycle laws that I found out I was breaking while reading the
> statutes. XD

Your girlfriend derserves every single citation she gets, even a
"reckless driving" charge would be in order. Sidewalks are for
*walking*. Duh. Streets are for vehicles. Brilliant way to get yourself
killed is to zoom through an intersection wrong way when riding on the
sidewalk.

It's not funny or "aw, man, it's no biggie", nope, it's just downright
stupid. It's about 5 notches of stupid above driving drunk.

This is of course assuming you're over 12 years old. In many
jurisdictions you may ride your "My little pony" bmx bike on the
sidewalk if you're under that age, and by the sound of things you may
be able to argue with a judge that you're 10--on an emotional level.

Date: 04 Oct 2006 09:14:47
From: bill
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

landotter wrote:
> Xtowers wrote:
>> It was kind of funny. I got a call from my girlfriend, and she told me
>> that she was pulled over by a cop on her bike. The cop said that it was
>> illegal to bike against traffic, which made sense to me. The thing that
>> didn't make sense was that she was biking on a sidewalk, not the road.
>>
>> This got me a little interested in the bicycle operation laws of
>> Minneapolis, Minnesota, where I live. I looked through the Minnesota
>> statutes, which said that it is illegal to bike against traffic.
>> However, all those laws applied to only the road, and not specifically
>> sidewalks. My girlfriend was also biking in an area where it was o.k.
>> to bike on the sidewalk, i.e. not a business district.
>>
>> So I was wondering if this is as strange to others as it is to me. I
>> have never heard of a cop pulling over a bicyclist for biking against
>> traffic while on a sidewalk. I'm thinking that this cop was having a
>> slow night. I don't think I'll stop biking against traffic while on a
>> sidewalk, and if I do get stopped I think I will bring up this issue
>> with the peace officer who thinks I am doing wrong. I think before I do
>> that, though, I'll have to make sure I'm up to code on all the other
>> bicycle laws that I found out I was breaking while reading the
>> statutes. XD
>
>
> Your girlfriend derserves every single citation she gets, even a
> "reckless driving" charge would be in order. Sidewalks are for
> *walking*. Duh. Streets are for vehicles. Brilliant way to get yourself
> killed is to zoom through an intersection wrong way when riding on the
> sidewalk.
>
> It's not funny or "aw, man, it's no biggie", nope, it's just downright
> stupid. It's about 5 notches of stupid above driving drunk.
>
> This is of course assuming you're over 12 years old. In many
> jurisdictions you may ride your "My little pony" bmx bike on the
> sidewalk if you're under that age, and by the sound of things you may
> be able to argue with a judge that you're 10--on an emotional level.
>
Lighten up. If she has any sts she pushes the button and walks the
bike like a good pedestrian. I do that sometimes where the sidewalk is
the safest place to be, but always under 10 MPH.
Bill Baka

Date: 03 Oct 2006 05:10:07
From:
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Date: 03 Oct 2006 12:01:29
From:
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

On 3 Oct 2006 00:38:20 -0700, "Xtowers" <Xtowers@gmail.com > wrote:

>It was kind of funny. I got a call from my girlfriend, and she told me
>that she was pulled over by a cop on her bike. The cop said that it was
>illegal to bike against traffic, which made sense to me. The thing that
>didn't make sense was that she was biking on a sidewalk, not the road.
>
>This got me a little interested in the bicycle operation laws of
>Minneapolis, Minnesota, where I live. I looked through the Minnesota
>statutes, which said that it is illegal to bike against traffic.
>However, all those laws applied to only the road, and not specifically
>sidewalks. My girlfriend was also biking in an area where it was o.k.
>to bike on the sidewalk, i.e. not a business district.
>
>So I was wondering if this is as strange to others as it is to me. I
>have never heard of a cop pulling over a bicyclist for biking against
>traffic while on a sidewalk. I'm thinking that this cop was having a
>slow night. I don't think I'll stop biking against traffic while on a
>sidewalk, and if I do get stopped I think I will bring up this issue
>with the peace officer who thinks I am doing wrong. I think before I do
>that, though, I'll have to make sure I'm up to code on all the other
>bicycle laws that I found out I was breaking while reading the
>statutes. XD
>

In some jurisdictions, the sidewalk is considered part of the highway;
you should check if that is so where you are.

Riding on the sidewalk is dangerous to both the cyclist and
pedestrians. Riding against the flow of motorcar traffic is also
dangerous.

Your sister should have been on the roadway proper, on the other side.

Date: 04 Oct 2006 09:12:17
From: bill
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com wrote:
> On 3 Oct 2006 00:38:20 -0700, "Xtowers" <Xtowers@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It was kind of funny. I got a call from my girlfriend, and she told me
>> that she was pulled over by a cop on her bike. The cop said that it was
>> illegal to bike against traffic, which made sense to me. The thing that
>> didn't make sense was that she was biking on a sidewalk, not the road.
>>
>> This got me a little interested in the bicycle operation laws of
>> Minneapolis, Minnesota, where I live. I looked through the Minnesota
>> statutes, which said that it is illegal to bike against traffic.
>> However, all those laws applied to only the road, and not specifically
>> sidewalks. My girlfriend was also biking in an area where it was o.k.
>> to bike on the sidewalk, i.e. not a business district.
>>
>> So I was wondering if this is as strange to others as it is to me. I
>> have never heard of a cop pulling over a bicyclist for biking against
>> traffic while on a sidewalk. I'm thinking that this cop was having a
>> slow night. I don't think I'll stop biking against traffic while on a
>> sidewalk, and if I do get stopped I think I will bring up this issue
>> with the peace officer who thinks I am doing wrong. I think before I do
>> that, though, I'll have to make sure I'm up to code on all the other
>> bicycle laws that I found out I was breaking while reading the
>> statutes. XD
>>
>
>
> In some jurisdictions, the sidewalk is considered part of the highway;
> you should check if that is so where you are.
>
> Riding on the sidewalk is dangerous to both the cyclist and
> pedestrians. Riding against the flow of motorcar traffic is also
> dangerous.
>
> Your sister should have been on the roadway proper, on the other side.

Great,
Now we have a sidewalk Nazi.
Bill (I'll ride on the sidewalk if I want to) Baka

Date: 03 Oct 2006 09:08:08
From: bill
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Xtowers wrote:
> It was kind of funny. I got a call from my girlfriend, and she told me
> that she was pulled over by a cop on her bike. The cop said that it was
> illegal to bike against traffic, which made sense to me. The thing that
> didn't make sense was that she was biking on a sidewalk, not the road.
>
> This got me a little interested in the bicycle operation laws of
> Minneapolis, Minnesota, where I live. I looked through the Minnesota
> statutes, which said that it is illegal to bike against traffic.
> However, all those laws applied to only the road, and not specifically
> sidewalks. My girlfriend was also biking in an area where it was o.k.
> to bike on the sidewalk, i.e. not a business district.
>
> So I was wondering if this is as strange to others as it is to me. I
> have never heard of a cop pulling over a bicyclist for biking against
> traffic while on a sidewalk. I'm thinking that this cop was having a
> slow night. I don't think I'll stop biking against traffic while on a
> sidewalk, and if I do get stopped I think I will bring up this issue
> with the peace officer who thinks I am doing wrong. I think before I do
> that, though, I'll have to make sure I'm up to code on all the other
> bicycle laws that I found out I was breaking while reading the
> statutes. XD
>
> -Xtowers
>
Bored cop? Stopping some for riding the wrong way on a sidewalk makes
about as much sense as stopping people for walking the wrong way.
Let us know, sounds like it might be harassment.
Bill Baka

Date: 03 Oct 2006 15:29:59
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

bill wrote: {snip]

> Bored cop? Stopping some for riding the wrong way on a sidewalk makes
> about as much sense as stopping people for walking the wrong way.

Mother holding a baby walks out of a store-front. BLAM!

Guess what, it wasn't a walker that creamed her.

HTH

Date: 04 Oct 2006 09:25:00
From: bill
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Bill Sornson wrote:
> bill wrote: {snip]
>
>> Bored cop? Stopping some for riding the wrong way on a sidewalk makes
>> about as much sense as stopping people for walking the wrong way.
>
> Mother holding a baby walks out of a store-front. BLAM!
>
> Guess what, it wasn't a walker that creamed her.
>
> HTH
>
>
That only applies if she was riding over 10 MPH.
Joggers use the sidewalk and run about that speed so what's the hangup?
Bill Baka

Date: 03 Oct 2006 17:49:29
From: Leo Lichtman
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

"Bill Sornson" wrote: Mother holding a baby walks out of a store-front.
BLAM!
>
> Guess what, it wasn't a walker that creamed her.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorni, this is copied from the original post: "My girlfriend was also
biking in an area where it was o.k.
to bike on the sidewalk, i.e. not a business district."

Mom carrying a baby is not likely to get slammed by a bike in a residential
neighborhood. Presumably the areas where sidewalk riding is legal would be
determined mostly on the basis of safety.

Date: 03 Oct 2006 18:14:33
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Leo Lichtman wrote:
> "Bill Sornson" wrote: Mother holding a baby walks out of a
> store-front. BLAM!
>>
>> Guess what, it wasn't a walker that creamed her.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Sorni, this is copied from the original post: "My girlfriend was also
> biking in an area where it was o.k.
> to bike on the sidewalk, i.e. not a business district."
>
> Mom carrying a baby is not likely to get slammed by a bike in a
> residential neighborhood. Presumably the areas where sidewalk riding
> is legal would be determined mostly on the basis of safety.

Leo, I specifically replied only to what Bill Baka wrote, which you snipped
(or failed to re-paste).

HTH

Date: 04 Oct 2006 09:28:10
From: bill
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Leo Lichtman wrote:
>> "Bill Sornson" wrote: Mother holding a baby walks out of a
>> store-front. BLAM!
>>> Guess what, it wasn't a walker that creamed her.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Sorni, this is copied from the original post: "My girlfriend was also
>> biking in an area where it was o.k.
>> to bike on the sidewalk, i.e. not a business district."
>>
>> Mom carrying a baby is not likely to get slammed by a bike in a
>> residential neighborhood. Presumably the areas where sidewalk riding
>> is legal would be determined mostly on the basis of safety.
>
> Leo, I specifically replied only to what Bill Baka wrote, which you snipped
> (or failed to re-paste).
>
> HTH
>
>
Did you note that he also stated it was 1:00 A.M.?
Not too many people out walking at that time!!!
Bill Baka

Date: 03 Oct 2006 13:02:24
From: Set
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:29:59 GMT, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me > wrote:

>bill wrote: {snip]
>
>> Bored cop? Stopping some for riding the wrong way on a sidewalk makes
>> about as much sense as stopping people for walking the wrong way.
>
>Mother holding a baby walks out of a store-front. BLAM!
>
>Guess what, it wasn't a walker that creamed her.
>
>HTH

Bomb disposal tech, carrying nitro walks out of building. BLAM!

;-p

Date: 03 Oct 2006 12:21:17
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Set wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:29:59 GMT, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote:
>
>> bill wrote: {snip]
>>
>>> Bored cop? Stopping some for riding the wrong way on a sidewalk makes
>>> about as much sense as stopping people for walking the wrong way.
>> Mother holding a baby walks out of a store-front. BLAM!
>>
>> Guess what, it wasn't a walker that creamed her.
>>
>> HTH
>
> Bomb disposal tech, carrying nitro walks out of building. BLAM!
>
> ;-p
>
Hot chick in tight lycra pants and shirt, riding wrong way on
sidewalk.... ???

Date: 03 Oct 2006 17:26:26
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

DougC wrote:
> Set wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:29:59 GMT, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
>> wrote:
>>> bill wrote: {snip]
>>>
>>>> Bored cop? Stopping some for riding the wrong way on a sidewalk
>>>> makes about as much sense as stopping people for walking the wrong
>>>> way.
>>> Mother holding a baby walks out of a store-front. BLAM!
>>>
>>> Guess what, it wasn't a walker that creamed her.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>
>> Bomb disposal tech, carrying nitro walks out of building. BLAM!
>>
>> ;-p
>>
> Hot chick in tight lycra pants and shirt, riding wrong way on
> sidewalk.... ???

And I'm riding with a water balloon? (Full of pudding?!?)

I'll grab me hat...

Date: 03 Oct 2006 17:12:42
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Is it illegal to bike against traffic on a sidewalk?

Set wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:29:59 GMT, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote:
>
>> bill wrote: {snip]
>>
>>> Bored cop? Stopping some for riding the wrong way on a sidewalk
>>> makes about as much sense as stopping people for walking the wrong
>>> way.
>>
>> Mother holding a baby walks out of a store-front. BLAM!
>>
>> Guess what, it wasn't a walker that creamed her.
>>
>> HTH
>
> Bomb disposal tech, carrying nitro walks out of building. BLAM!
>
> ;-p

Nice touch.

:-D