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Date: 23 Jun 2007 15:57:18
From: Cathy Kearns
Subject: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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Today I was dropping off my daughter at the horse barn, which happens to be
situated on one of the most popular recreational cycling routes in the
country. (I know, as I ride it often...) As I was waiting to turn left off
this road I saw two cyclists coming toward me. One of them was wearing a
road construction vest, the other had a helmet that had to be at least 15
years old. The guy with the old helmet holds his hand up in the perfect
"I'm turning right" signal. Well, a) the guy really doesn't look like he
knows what he's doing, and b) the road I'm turning on is hilly enough that
despite being this close to the bike route, really doesn't attract many
cyclists. So I don't believe him, and just sit waiting for him to pass.
Sure enough, he doesn't turn right. Though I suspect, some day someone is
going to believe he is turning right and T-bone him.
But this got me thinking. I do give cyclists that look like they don't know
what they are doing much more room than I give experienced looking cyclists.
And how do I judge? By their outfits. I assume someone in full club kit
who's riding on the edge of road line can hold that line. But I assume
someone in board shorts a foot inside the edge of road line my swerve out
into my lane at any moment.
And I'm not the only one. One weekend I was driving along a two lane road
with a suicide turn lane through the center early in the morning. It was
apparent there was some charity ride taking that route. I was not the only
one pulling all the way into the suicide lane to pass the ride that was
pretty much entirely in the bike lane, except the occasional swerve. So
maybe dressing dorky is the way for cars to give you more room. What do you
all think?
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Date: 29 Jun 2007 11:56:52
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Jun 28, 9:08 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
> DougC wrote:
> > Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> >> Shouldn't a rider get paid to wear advertising, not the other way
> >> around?
>
> > I read a book a couple years back where the author commented on the
> > matter of teenagers overpaying for shirts that had the clothing
> > company's logo writ large upon them.
>
> > He thought it looked funny, because when he was that age (back in the
> > 1950's, in the US) kids wouldn't wear shirts with logos if they could
> > help it. Back then companies that would GIVE those shirts away for free
> > just for the advertising (nobody would pay for them, people though they
> > were garish). So only poor kids ended up wearing them, and no kid wanted
> > to look like he was poor.
> > ~
>
> A few years back, Supergo (now defunct) typically offered house-brand
> shorts $5 cheaper with the larger logo. My kids used to complain when I
> bought them (for them), but I thought it was a fair deal.- Hide quoted text -
>
And that, pretty much, is how things *should* work. And not only in
clothing; an example is Chris King headsets, if they want to plaster
that garish logo on the headset, they should charge less for it v. a
tasteful, plain version.
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 00:43:33
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Jun 27, 7:30 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:12:33 +0000, marian.rosenb...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Maybe, just maybe, you should knock the chip off of your own shoulder.
>
> That would mean I'd have to fight myself. Someone might get hurt.
Sometimes a little pain is necessary.
-M
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 10:55:17
From: Camilo
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Jun 27, 3:29 am, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:08:06 -0700, Camilo wrote:
> > On Jun 26, 6:10 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
> > I only hope I find the right person to get permission from before I
> > buy my dream bicycle, since I only average 15 MPH on my rides. You
> > can bet your life that if I felt I could afford it, I'd buy the $multi
> > thousand Orbea I saw in a bike shop a few weeks ago. I'd love to ride
> > that bike and I think I'd really enjoy it.
>
> I play the piano very badly. Once, shopping with my parents, I had the
> chance to play what might have been my dream piano--a Steinway Model B.
> It was a beautiful instrument. It looked beautiful. It felt perfect under
> my fingers. It had a wonderfully rich sound.
>
> We didn't get it.
>
> Why not? It was going to go to waste. My skill wasn't up to
> the quality of the instrument; too much of its potential was going to go
> unexplored.
>
> I'm much the same with bicycles. As it is, I have a hard
> time justifying to myself the gear I already have.
>
> -Luigi
>
> --
> Luigi de Guzmanhttp://ouij.livejournal.com
That's fine - your choice. I probably would do the same. But I
wouldn't even think of passing judgement on how others choose to spend
their money. If someone has a beautiful Steinway grand in their
living room just because it's beautiful and they enjoy plinking on it,
I admire their taste and ability to indulge it. I don't go around
criticizing or disparaging them for it.
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 08:05:50
From: gds
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Jun 26, 11:16 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman >
> >
> Shouldn't a rider get paid to wear advertising, not the other way
> around?
>
> --
>
I tend to agree. So, in the case of a club with sponsor they are
paying for the advertising. In the other cases I agree and prefer the
stuff with minimal logos.
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 11:30:12
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:12:33 +0000, marian.rosenberg@gmail.com wrote:
> Maybe, just maybe, you should knock the chip off of your own shoulder.
That would mean I'd have to fight myself. Someone might get hurt.
-Luigi
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 11:29:27
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:08:06 -0700, Camilo wrote:
> On Jun 26, 6:10 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
> I only hope I find the right person to get permission from before I
> buy my dream bicycle, since I only average 15 MPH on my rides. You
> can bet your life that if I felt I could afford it, I'd buy the $multi
> thousand Orbea I saw in a bike shop a few weeks ago. I'd love to ride
> that bike and I think I'd really enjoy it.
I play the piano very badly. Once, shopping with my parents, I had the
chance to play what might have been my dream piano--a Steinway Model B.
It was a beautiful instrument. It looked beautiful. It felt perfect under
my fingers. It had a wonderfully rich sound.
We didn't get it.
Why not? It was going to go to waste. My skill wasn't up to
the quality of the instrument; too much of its potential was going to go
unexplored.
I'm much the same with bicycles. As it is, I have a hard
time justifying to myself the gear I already have.
-Luigi
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 09:12:33
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Jun 27, 10:10 am, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:34:11 +0000, marian.rosenb...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Speaking as one of those overpriced racer types you hate ...
>
> > 1. I am not a wannabe. I do not want to be. I am.
>
> My ire isn't directed at you.
> I'm thinking more about the dude I saw wobbling on his Trek OCLV. He might
> have been a fine gent off the bike, but, seriously, that man did not
> belong on that bike, no matter how many greenbacks he forked over to the
> shopdude who sold it to him.
Are you sure?
At the end of September 2005 I forked over 3000 rmb for what was
easily one of the most expensive road bikes in the bike shop at the
time. If I recall correctly, with the exception of the lone Bianchi
it was the most expensive assembled bike there. At the time there
were a scant number of more expensive bikes in the province and the
vast majority of those had been special ordered by the very very
serious types. It was a nicer bike than any of the bikes then
belonging to the amateur coach and was a nicer frame than the bike
that is the normally ridden by the professional coach (who, back in
the day, before he became involved with the national team as a coach
was involved with the national team as a racer and represented China
at the Olympics in 1984).
Now 3000 rmb really isn't actually all that much money. Especially
not when you put it in dollars. And the local biking scene has
changed even more dramatically than the local economy (I think it was
in the China Economic Review that I read about Hainan having an annual
12% growth rate) in the last year and a half. There are relatively
quite a lot of 3000rmb bikes on the road these days and there are a
lot more pre-assembled non-special ordered bikes in the 6000 and up
range. There's even a teenager with a 46,000rmb T-Mobile team
replica. The point is that while it wasn't the most expensive bike I
could afford, it was the most expensive bike the shopdude was able to
justify convincing me to buy. Part of the reason he wasn't able to
convince me to spend more was because, at the time, there was nothing
between that 3000 rmb bike and the 20,000rmb Bianchi and I wasn't that
likely a candidate. But, if there had been a 5000 or 6000 rmb bike
available at the time he probably could have managed to sell me that
one instead.
This bike was so astonishingly expensive that one of my Chinese
friends felt the need to drop everything and rush over to the bike
shop before I handed over the cash to make sure that they weren't
fleecing the foreigner.
The shopdudes were so confident of my bike handling skills that they
refused to attach both toe straps on my first day out. When I
proceeded to fall over at a stop light and dent the top tube in the
first week (when I still had only one toe strap) their lack of
confidence in my bike handling skills proved to be quite correct.
Eighteen months down the line I've got three bikes, try to do 1000km a
month, am the second ranked amateur female in the province, am
preparing to go to the South China Regional as a competitor, and
preparing to go to the Tour of Qinghai Lake (a 2.HC international
stage race on the UCI calender) as a staff member. In the last local
time trial I took overall 28th out of a field of 85, 11th out of 20
for my age category, and overall first for women. I've done two
lightly loaded tours (one of which was international), twice been
unable to accept invitations to ride to Tibet, regularly go credit
card touring, and am among the group of people who get asked for
advice on what products I think the bike shop should carry.
So maybe the guy on the OCLV was a bit wobbly. And maybe that bike
will eventually end up in his garage gathering dust. Or maybe it was
the one that caught his eye and it will be the bike that started it
all for him.
> As to the rest of it, well--you'd probably blow by me so fast you wouldn't
> even notice me. Or you'd be like that other joker who passed me no-hands
> yesterday.
Maybe, just maybe, you should knock the chip off of your own shoulder.
-M
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 23:16:31
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Jun 26, 11:24 am, gds wrote:
> On Jun 25, 6:21 pm, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > On Jun 25, 7:54 pm, Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
> > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:28:50 +0000, gds wrote:
> > > > Just wonder why there is all this prejuduce focused on what folks
> > > > wear?
>
> > > The proportion of asshattitude you're likely to get from
> > > Europoseur-equipped riders tends to be much higher than that you get from
> > > anyone else.
>
> > Bingo!
>
> > > I don't mind the guys decked out in their local club kit--a couple of guys
> > > in NCVC colors just blasted by me today--but I tend to watch guys in
> > > replica racer gear very carefully. As often as not, they're trying to
> > > make up for a lack of time on the bike with an abundance of cash. Like
> > > I've said elsewhere in the thread, there are way too many guys out there
> > > in full Europoseur kit who can barely ride straight.
>
> > > -Luigi
>
> Well. I don't see that as much as you do. Perhaps there are regional
> differences.
> I guess my point is "So What?" If they are out on their bike and
> having fun why does is rankle you so much. As I said before most of
> the folks riding the wrong way and riding on sidewalks and veering
> into other lanes are not wearing "euro pro" kits. they are the truly
> unsafe riders.
> We have had a number of threads in the past on the safety of cycling
> and I have commented before that from at least what I see in my home
> town, which is very cyclist friendly, is that most serious cyclist
> accidents - those involving serious injury or death, do not involve
> the "racer types" but rather transportational cyclists. So, at least
> here in Tucson observations to contrary are at odds with the
> statistics.
> Most of these accidents seem to occurr early in the morning or later
> in the evening. And while there is little doubt that motorists share
> much or most of the blame news descriptions of the incidents almost
> always involve phrases such as "riding in the dark without lights" or
> "riding opposite traffic" or some such info.
> I'm not down on transportational cyclists but I am down on the
> prejudice that folks are showing to something as silly as what folks
> wear. I think you should wear whatever you want and the idea that one
> would be "judged" by the outfit they wear is, to me, an indication of
> the shallowness of the judge.
Shouldn't a rider get paid to wear advertising, not the other way
around?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 11:54:27
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> Shouldn't a rider get paid to wear advertising, not the other way
> around?
>
I read a book a couple years back where the author commented on the
matter of teenagers overpaying for shirts that had the clothing
company's logo writ large upon them.
He thought it looked funny, because when he was that age (back in the
1950's, in the US) kids wouldn't wear shirts with logos if they could
help it. Back then companies that would GIVE those shirts away for free
just for the advertising (nobody would pay for them, people though they
were garish). So only poor kids ended up wearing them, and no kid wanted
to look like he was poor.
~
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 10:08:26
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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DougC wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>> Shouldn't a rider get paid to wear advertising, not the other way
>> around?
>>
>
> I read a book a couple years back where the author commented on the
> matter of teenagers overpaying for shirts that had the clothing
> company's logo writ large upon them.
>
> He thought it looked funny, because when he was that age (back in the
> 1950's, in the US) kids wouldn't wear shirts with logos if they could
> help it. Back then companies that would GIVE those shirts away for free
> just for the advertising (nobody would pay for them, people though they
> were garish). So only poor kids ended up wearing them, and no kid wanted
> to look like he was poor.
> ~
>
A few years back, Supergo (now defunct) typically offered house-brand
shorts $5 cheaper with the larger logo. My kids used to complain when I
bought them (for them), but I thought it was a fair deal.
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 22:12:09
From: Lynne Fitz
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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Except for my ride souvenir jerseys, all my jerseys are fun jerseys.
I have entirely too many of them, and not a single race team jersey in
the bunch. Darn near everyone passes me on my commute as well. I
don't care. I'm having fun.
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 22:08:06
From: Camilo
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Jun 26, 6:10 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:34:11 +0000, marian.rosenb...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Speaking as one of those overpriced racer types you hate ...
>
> > 1. I am not a wannabe. I do not want to be. I am.
>
> My ire isn't directed at you.
>
> I'm thinking more about the dude I saw wobbling on his Trek OCLV. He might
> have been a fine gent off the bike, but, seriously, that man did not
> belong on that bike, no matter how many greenbacks he forked over to the
> shopdude who sold it to him....
I continue to just be amazed at people who think they can or should
judge whether or not someone "belongs" on or "deserves" to own a
bike. And why they should think anyone gives a hairy rat's a$$ what
they think? Don't they feel any embarrassment at all?
Heaven f&*king forbid that anyone should feel free to judge for him or
her self what is worth spending their own money on. Heaven forbid
anyone should buy equipment based on non-approved values such as
pleasing design or color, feel, efficiency, smooth function or because
they like top of the line equipment and/or think it might just make
cycling more fun. You should help them out by making sure everyone
understands the proper criteria of bicycle choice - based strictly on
physical ability and intended use.
Tell you what, give a list of every material object you own and we'll
tell you whether you're a poseur or not.
I only hope I find the right person to get permission from before I
buy my dream bicycle, since I only average 15 MPH on my rides. You
can bet your life that if I felt I could afford it, I'd buy the $multi
thousand Orbea I saw in a bike shop a few weeks ago. I'd love to ride
that bike and I think I'd really enjoy it.
Sheesh
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 02:10:06
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:34:11 +0000, marian.rosenberg@gmail.com wrote:
> Speaking as one of those overpriced racer types you hate ...
>
> 1. I am not a wannabe. I do not want to be. I am.
My ire isn't directed at you.
I'm thinking more about the dude I saw wobbling on his Trek OCLV. He might
have been a fine gent off the bike, but, seriously, that man did not
belong on that bike, no matter how many greenbacks he forked over to the
shopdude who sold it to him.
As to the rest of it, well--you'd probably blow by me so fast you wouldn't
even notice me. Or you'd be like that other joker who passed me no-hands
yesterday.
-L
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 01:34:11
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Jun 27, 5:37 am, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> But sure, fine, you caught me. I hate wannabe racers. Part of it is
> straight out envy--I wish I were that fast. But a lot of the time, it's
> resentment. I see a lot of guys out there trying to make up in cash what
> they lack in bike time. It's their time and money, but God strike me dead
> if I should ever start fronting like that.
Speaking as one of those overpriced racer types you hate ...
1. I am not a wannabe. I do not want to be. I am.
2. I enjoy riding bikes. I try to ride at least one of my bikes
everyday. Because of the amount that I ride bikes I have found out
exactly what I want and exactly what I am comfortable with and my
equipment is chosen from a mix of factors including comfort,
performance, and price tag.
3. I am not riding an expensive bike to annoy you. I am riding an
expensive bike because this is a bike that I find comfortable.
4. I am not riding fast to annoy you. I am riding fast because today
I am riding fast. Tomorrow I might be riding slow. Maybe you should
say "hello" to me. Maybe I'll stop and say "hello" to you. Maybe
I'll even decide now is a good time to get in some spinning and I ride
with you for a while.
5. While some people are making up in cash what they lack in skill
and speed obviously, since I am out there on my bike going faster than
slow and going farther than the coffee shop perhaps I have a very good
reason for riding this bike. Maybe it isn't just because I can afford
it that I bought it.
I'm in a totally different situation than you or, so far as I know,
anyone else on these groups is. But unless I meet some smug so-and-so
who is way to oversure of his ability to do something clearly
impossible[1], I don't go around randomly telling other people on
bikes how fast I am or that my helmet cost more than their bike.
-M
[1] Errr... notwithstanding the fact that the aforementioned smug so-
and-so then went on to do the clearly impossible and, with my help, is
now working at the bike shop.
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 18:26:46
From: Camilo
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Jun 26, 11:20 am, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:17:19 +0200, Andrew Price wrote:
> > I'm surprised that it's not readily available there - surely it can't
> > be for lack of a market?
>
> Yeah, it is. Sport cycling in the US is such a marginalized activity,
> it's a fetish. The garish jerseys and so forth are no more unusual than
> the tatoos and piercings that prevail among certain outlaw motorcycle
> gangs.
>
> Bet you never thought of those racer dudes as "one percenters," but that's
> exactly what they are.
>
> -Luigi
>
> --
> Luigi de Guzmanhttp://ouij.livejournal.com
This is a bizarre statement - not saying you dont' think it's true,
but it is just not true that there is a lack of plain cycling
clothing. I can't speak for your LBS's, but mine display 10 plain
jerseys for every "pro-kit" or logo festooned jersey. Examples are
Pearl Isumi, Garneau, Cannondale, Hind, etc. etc. All have very tiny,
normal size single logos, usually on the breast or near the lower hem
on the back.
As another example, just look at the main online retailers such as
Performance Bike and Nashbar. Not only do they have huge selections
of the above Brand Name small logo jerseys, they also have huge
selections of house brand, small logo jerseys.
Of the riders I see on my daily rides throughout my community, there
are 10 in plain jerseys for every one I see in the other kind.
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 21:37:06
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:06:13 -0700, gds wrote:
> Luigi, where do you shop?
Northern Virginia. Not an awful lot of cyclists on the road here (by
European standards). The sporty cyclists I tend to see are triathletes
who gain great satisfaction in shaving seconds off their ride times, among
others.
Not at all like my stint in England, where I saw all manner of cyclists,
and a much wider selection of cycling gear easily at hand.
But sure, fine, you caught me. I hate wannabe racers. Part of it is
straight out envy--I wish I were that fast. But a lot of the time, it's
resentment. I see a lot of guys out there trying to make up in cash what
they lack in bike time. It's their time and money, but God strike me dead
if I should ever start fronting like that.
-Luigi
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 13:06:13
From: gds
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Jun 26, 12:20 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:17:19 +0200, Andrew Price wrote:
> > I'm surprised that it's not readily available there - surely it can't
> > be for lack of a market?
>
> Yeah, it is. Sport cycling in the US is such a marginalized activity,
> it's a fetish. The garish jerseys and so forth are no more unusual than
> the tatoos and piercings that prevail among certain outlaw motorcycle
> gangs.
>
> Bet you never thought of those racer dudes as "one percenters," but that's
> exactly what they are.
>
> -Luigi
>
> --
> Luigi de Guzmanhttp://ouij.livejournal.com
Luigi, where do you shop? I can find huge quanties of cycling clothing
with very non obvious logos. I can find them in all price points and
all sizes and in a great variety of colors. The reality is that in the
US there is a huge selction of cycling clothing in a variety of styles
and in both garish and non garish colors and with and without large
logos.
I have a number of jerseys that are from various clubs/teams that I
have been asociated with over the years. Those all have prominent
displays of the folks who put out $$ to sponsor the club /team. As for
my shorts, tights, knee warmers, and jackets you would be hard pressed
to tell me the brand if you were more than 6 feet away. Never had any
problem finding stuff like this.
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 19:20:44
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:17:19 +0200, Andrew Price wrote:
> I'm surprised that it's not readily available there - surely it can't
> be for lack of a market?
Yeah, it is. Sport cycling in the US is such a marginalized activity,
it's a fetish. The garish jerseys and so forth are no more unusual than
the tatoos and piercings that prevail among certain outlaw motorcycle
gangs.
Bet you never thought of those racer dudes as "one percenters," but that's
exactly what they are.
-Luigi
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 09:28:50
From: gds
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Jun 25, 7:33 pm, "Cathy Kearns" <cathy_kea...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> If I'm going to tennis, I wear my tennis
> dress. If I'm going for a ladies luncheon, I wear a flippy skirt, blouse,
> and heels. If I'm heading to the market, I wear my normal run errands
> clothes of jeans or capris and a nice shirt. I do have the full lycra
> roadie wear for taking my road bike out for exercise. I have touring wear
> for bike tours on my tandem. But my "townie" bike does not have it's own
> wardrobe, that is the whole point of the bike.
>
And that all makes eminent sense! You have differing selections of
clothing for differing use. Most of us do. And some things that you do
are so neutral that no specific outfit is needed. Perfectly
reasonable.
And going back to original question of the OP. Doesn't this make the
judging of riders by their outfit kind of difficult. My guess is that
your riding skills are your riding skills and that your riding
behavior doesn't change much whether you are wearing a tennis dress,
full lycra kit, a touring kit, or jeans. So, how can anyone judge?
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 09:24:25
From: gds
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Jun 25, 6:21 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 25, 7:54 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:28:50 +0000, gds wrote:
> > > Just wonder why there is all this prejuduce focused on what folks
> > > wear?
>
> > The proportion of asshattitude you're likely to get from
> > Europoseur-equipped riders tends to be much higher than that you get from
> > anyone else.
>
> Bingo!
>
>
>
>
>
> > I don't mind the guys decked out in their local club kit--a couple of guys
> > in NCVC colors just blasted by me today--but I tend to watch guys in
> > replica racer gear very carefully. As often as not, they're trying to
> > make up for a lack of time on the bike with an abundance of cash. Like
> > I've said elsewhere in the thread, there are way too many guys out there
> > in full Europoseur kit who can barely ride straight.
>
> > -Luigi
>
Well. I don't see that as much as you do. Perhaps there are regional
differences.
I guess my point is "So What?" If they are out on their bike and
having fun why does is rankle you so much. As I said before most of
the folks riding the wrong way and riding on sidewalks and veering
into other lanes are not wearing "euro pro" kits. they are the truly
unsafe riders.
We have had a number of threads in the past on the safety of cycling
and I have commented before that from at least what I see in my home
town, which is very cyclist friendly, is that most serious cyclist
accidents - those involving serious injury or death, do not involve
the "racer types" but rather transportational cyclists. So, at least
here in Tucson observations to contrary are at odds with the
statistics.
Most of these accidents seem to occurr early in the morning or later
in the evening. And while there is little doubt that motorists share
much or most of the blame news descriptions of the incidents almost
always involve phrases such as "riding in the dark without lights" or
"riding opposite traffic" or some such info.
I'm not down on transportational cyclists but I am down on the
prejudice that folks are showing to something as silly as what folks
wear. I think you should wear whatever you want and the idea that one
would be "judged" by the outfit they wear is, to me, an indication of
the shallowness of the judge.
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 02:56:28
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 02:33:40 +0000, Cathy Kearns wrote:
>
> (And to get back on subject, yep, if you are riding around in a flippy
> skirt, blouse and heels cars give you tons of room...)
Many, like me, might even be loath to pass you.
-L
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 29 Jun 2007 10:56:49
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 02:56:28 GMT, Luigi de Guzman
<luigi12081@cox.net > wrote:
>On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 02:33:40 +0000, Cathy Kearns wrote:
>
>>
>> (And to get back on subject, yep, if you are riding around in a flippy
>> skirt, blouse and heels cars give you tons of room...)
>
>Many, like me, might even be loath to pass you.
>
Right now it sounds like you might be hard pressed to even draft her.
When I see a woman riding in a skirt, it gladdens my heart. I always
want to see if she's wearing dangling earrings too. Sometimes she's
also toting waterproof panniers that look well used. You'll know then
that you've met a woman of substance.
I like riding around in a day-glo hot pink jersey or jacket with my
blonde flowing pigtail sticking out from under my hard kayak hat.
I try to not judge cyclists by their garb but people wearing highway
vests get extra room from me. They appear to be easily startled and
don't want to startle them.
Notice the way fashion designers finally picked up on the docked
trousers that couriers initiated and street riders adopted long ago.
Bikes are sexy, damnit. Dress the part.
--
zk
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 18:50:05
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
In article <1182796130.587054.267060@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com >,
gds <gary_jill@msn.com > writes:
> In my experience it is the transportational cyclists who don't have
> the transportational cycling skills.
I submit those aren't real transportational riders.
> So, riding the wrong way against traffic, riding on the sidewalk,
> swerving into traffic are what I see of this group.
Y'see, all those sins take noticable effort. Real
transportational riders glide through with subtle
and unremarkable ease.
> If you actually get to ride with a group of CAT 1 & 2 racers you will
> be amazed at their bike handling skills. For the most part they are
> superb bike handlers at both high and slow speeds and they also are
> pretty good about obeying the rules of the road.
> Just wonder why there is all this prejuduce focused on what folks
> wear? I've seen great riders in pro kits and horrible riders in pro
> kits. As to the anti lycra crowd. I don't get it. Many years ago I
> rode mostly in jeans and cut off jeans. Lots of riding as a kid and
> wore that type of "cycle wear" through college which included several
> tours of over 1,000 miles. But today I wouldn't dream of that. Modern
> cycling clothing is much more comfortable and practical.
I agree that modern cycling clothing performs beautifully
at its purpose, and I'm hardly one of the anti lycra crowd.
But I believe a lot of people are turned-off the notion of
transportational riding by the presumption they have to
dress funny to do it.
Although there's a current revival of "townie" bikes, there's
still a definite lag and lack in the availability of off-the-rack
cycling apparel appropriate for destination-based runs about town.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 02:33:40
From: Cathy Kearns
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
"Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:dofs5f.v8.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> Although there's a current revival of "townie" bikes, there's
> still a definite lag and lack in the availability of off-the-rack
> cycling apparel appropriate for destination-based runs about town.
The point of "townie" bikes is everything off the rack is suitable for
destination-based runs about town. If I'm going to tennis, I wear my tennis
dress. If I'm going for a ladies luncheon, I wear a flippy skirt, blouse,
and heels. If I'm heading to the market, I wear my normal run errands
clothes of jeans or capris and a nice shirt. I do have the full lycra
roadie wear for taking my road bike out for exercise. I have touring wear
for bike tours on my tandem. But my "townie" bike does not have it's own
wardrobe, that is the whole point of the bike.
(And to get back on subject, yep, if you are riding around in a flippy
skirt, blouse and heels cars give you tons of room...)
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 16:42:38
From: Neil Brooks
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 02:33:40 GMT, "Cathy Kearns"
<cathy_kearns@yahoo.com > wrote:
>(And to get back on subject, yep, if you are riding around in a flippy
>skirt, blouse and heels cars give you tons of room...)
Worth a try, but .... somehow I think I'm going to have a vastly
different result than you....
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| | | | |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 03:10:39
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
In article <feg2839urn823kp3gph87eg4qip1kkrbcr@4ax.com >,
Neil Brooks <neil0502@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 02:33:40 GMT, "Cathy Kearns"
> <cathy_kearns@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >(And to get back on subject, yep, if you are riding around in a flippy
> >skirt, blouse and heels cars give you tons of room...)
>
> Worth a try, but .... somehow I think I'm going to have a vastly
> different result than you....
You sure? I'd give you a wide berth.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 25 Jun 2007 18:21:36
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Jun 25, 7:54 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:28:50 +0000, gds wrote:
> > Just wonder why there is all this prejuduce focused on what folks
> > wear?
>
> The proportion of asshattitude you're likely to get from
> Europoseur-equipped riders tends to be much higher than that you get from
> anyone else.
Bingo!
>
> I don't mind the guys decked out in their local club kit--a couple of guys
> in NCVC colors just blasted by me today--but I tend to watch guys in
> replica racer gear very carefully. As often as not, they're trying to
> make up for a lack of time on the bike with an abundance of cash. Like
> I've said elsewhere in the thread, there are way too many guys out there
> in full Europoseur kit who can barely ride straight.
>
> -Luigi
>
> --
> Luigi de Guzmanhttp://ouij.livejournal.com
|
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 00:54:24
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:28:50 +0000, gds wrote:
> Just wonder why there is all this prejuduce focused on what folks
> wear?
The proportion of asshattitude you're likely to get from
Europoseur-equipped riders tends to be much higher than that you get from
anyone else.
I don't mind the guys decked out in their local club kit--a couple of guys
in NCVC colors just blasted by me today--but I tend to watch guys in
replica racer gear very carefully. As often as not, they're trying to
make up for a lack of time on the bike with an abundance of cash. Like
I've said elsewhere in the thread, there are way too many guys out there
in full Europoseur kit who can barely ride straight.
-Luigi
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
|
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 00:51:31
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:51:34 -0700, Dane Buson wrote:
>
> I do tend to do an awful lot of miles in cargo shorts and t-shirt.
Let me be the first to get the AMEN corner started: AMEN.
I just did a half-century today (by accident) in khakis and a t-shirt.
Utterly Fredly--The Fab One would be displeased, I'm sure. But
considering the fact that I took it at an even SLOWER pace (~8.5 mph) than
my usual loop around the 'hood (~11 mph), I figure that I dressed
appropriately to my level of skill.
>
>> A moving fashion violation!
>
> If you take a look at the advertisements in British cycling magazines
> it's prefectly possible to get logo-less, inoffensive cycling clothing
> in all sizes and shapes. Try doing that in the US.
And at reasonable prices, natch. I miss CyclingPlus--probably the only
cycling mag I've ever read that wasn't a waste of time.
There's a much broader base of cyclists in Britain--from the working-class
bloke getting to & from work on a beater to the clubmen (and women) to the
hardcore competitors.
-Luigi
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
|
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 01:07:33
From: Cathy Kearns
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
"Luigi de Guzman" <luigi12081@cox.net > wrote in message
news:nqZfi.12231$F32.4152@newsfe21.lga...
> I just did a half-century today (by accident) in khakis and a t-shirt.
> Utterly Fredly--The Fab One would be displeased, I'm sure. But
> considering the fact that I took it at an even SLOWER pace (~8.5 mph) than
> my usual loop around the 'hood (~11 mph), I figure that I dressed
> appropriately to my level of skill.
I don't know, I would never confuse speed with competency. I'm betting your
skill level was just fine.
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Date: 25 Jun 2007 18:28:50
From: gds
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Jun 23, 1:10 pm, "Rich Clark" <rdclark2S...@TRAPcomcast.net > wrote:
> In my experience it's usually a mistake to assume racers, professional or
> otherwise, have any transportational cycling skills at all. Indeed, you can
> generally count on them not to stop at signals (or anywhere else).
>
In my experience it is the transportational cyclists who don't have
the transportational cycling skills.
So, riding the wrong way against traffic, riding on the sidewalk,
swerving into traffic are what I see of this group.
If you actually get to ride with a group of CAT 1 & 2 racers you will
be amazed at their bike handling skills. For the most part they are
superb bike handlers at both high and slow speeds and they also are
pretty good about obeying the rules of the road.
As to running red lights. I don't see much of that at all by the racer
crowd except during race type rides. Not real races but most cities
have some sort of faux race training ride. Here in Tucson it is the
"shootout" and there is no doubt that lots of unsafe riding takes
place on this ride. But it is the exception not the rule.
Just wonder why there is all this prejuduce focused on what folks
wear? I've seen great riders in pro kits and horrible riders in pro
kits. As to the anti lycra crowd. I don't get it. Many years ago I
rode mostly in jeans and cut off jeans. Lots of riding as a kid and
wore that type of "cycle wear" through college which included several
tours of over 1,000 miles. But today I wouldn't dream of that. Modern
cycling clothing is much more comfortable and practical.
|
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Date: 25 Jun 2007 08:02:24
From: rdclark
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Jun 24, 6:46 am, Doc O'Leary <droleary.use...@2q2007.subsume.com >
wrote:
> In article <q5Wdnbp8RYK14-DbnZ2dnUVZ_jCdn...@comcast.com>,
> "Rich Clark" <rdclark2S...@TRAPcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Of course, in my experience it's usually a mistake to assume anyone on a
> > bike is going to do anything predictable. The tiny minority of us who
> > actually try to behave like traffic rarely present problems to cars or other
> > cyclists anyway, so treating all cyclists as insane menaces is usually a
> > good bet.
>
> Why limit it to cyclists? Hell, I can't even limit it to vehicles
> because I've seen people who can't even *walk* predictably.
I thought that qwent without saying!
r
>
> --
> My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
> heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
|
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Date: 25 Jun 2007 14:03:39
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
Dane Buson wrote:
>
> Cargo shorts and t-shirt - probably popping over to a friends or just
> off to the drug store.
>
> Comfortable looking top and cycling shorts - could be 5 miles, could be
> fifty miles.
>
> White cycling shorts and no fenders - the sure sign of someone who only
> rides this bike when it's totally dry without a cloud in the sky.
> Probably out on a training ride.
>
> Full europoseur gear colored matched to their frame - coffee shop.
I'm likely to ride up to thirty miles at a time in a cotton t-shirt,
cut-off or rolled-up overalls, chunky work shoes, and a flashing
safety vest if I expect to be out after dark:
http://www.ledtronics.com/ds/VST-1004/default.asp
A moving fashion violation!
My shiny shorts usually function as shiny underwear rather than shiny
outerwear. I used to spend my college class days in them, wear them
to work at newspapers and other places, and basically roam all over
the city hurting people's eyes. I got over it around the time I began
working in machine shops.
I consider most riders garbed in stretchy advertisements to be having
some kind of costume party all by themselves. At least the dorks in
tunics beating on each other with foam swords in the park are having a
sociable time. Seems like the lycras mostly grimace in silence.
Chalo
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Date: 25 Jun 2007 12:51:34
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>>
>> Cargo shorts and t-shirt - probably popping over to a friends or just
>> off to the drug store.
>>
>> Comfortable looking top and cycling shorts - could be 5 miles, could be
>> fifty miles.
>>
>> White cycling shorts and no fenders - the sure sign of someone who only
>> rides this bike when it's totally dry without a cloud in the sky.
>> Probably out on a training ride.
>>
>> Full europoseur gear colored matched to their frame - coffee shop.
>
> I'm likely to ride up to thirty miles at a time in a cotton t-shirt,
> cut-off or rolled-up overalls, chunky work shoes, and a flashing
> safety vest if I expect to be out after dark:
>
> http://www.ledtronics.com/ds/VST-1004/default.asp
Shiny. You'll be almost as visible as Joby.
I do tend to do an awful lot of miles in cargo shorts and t-shirt.
> A moving fashion violation!
>
> My shiny shorts usually function as shiny underwear rather than shiny
> outerwear. I used to spend my college class days in them, wear them
> to work at newspapers and other places, and basically roam all over
> the city hurting people's eyes. I got over it around the time I began
> working in machine shops.
>
> I consider most riders garbed in stretchy advertisements to be having
> some kind of costume party all by themselves. At least the dorks in
> tunics beating on each other with foam swords in the park are having a
> sociable time. Seems like the lycras mostly grimace in silence.
If you take a look at the advertisements in British cycling magazines
it's prefectly possible to get logo-less, inoffensive cycling clothing
in all sizes and shapes. Try doing that in the US.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"This is a job for BOB VIOLENCE and SCUM, the INCREDIBLY STUPID MUTANT DOG."
-- Bob Violence
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 21:17:19
From: Andrew Price
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:51:34 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu >
wrote:
>If you take a look at the advertisements in British cycling magazines
>it's prefectly possible to get logo-less, inoffensive cycling clothing
>in all sizes and shapes.
Not just in Britain, in most countries in Europe.
>Try doing that in the US.
I'm surprised that it's not readily available there - surely it can't
be for lack of a market?
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| | | | |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 03:08:44
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
In article <0fp2831hff3ntsnh32isjlskgf1dv91avt@4ax.com >,
Andrew Price <ajprice@free.fr > wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:51:34 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >If you take a look at the advertisements in British cycling magazines
> >it's prefectly possible to get logo-less, inoffensive cycling clothing
> >in all sizes and shapes.
>
> Not just in Britain, in most countries in Europe.
>
> >Try doing that in the US.
>
> I'm surprised that it's not readily available there - surely it can't
> be for lack of a market?
I have no idea what these people are talking about. I own a small number
of jerseys and cycling tops aside from my club kit: A plain red Hind
with a simple silver logo on the breast about the size of the Izod gator
and a second one on the rear pockets, a plain gold Race Face jersey with
just a breast logo (about the same size, and white on gold, so it's
pretty subtle). Most of my other non-club garments have similarly subtle
logos. It was barely even a conscious choice: I just kept buying
inexpensive jerseys and shorts as I found them at local bike shops.
Even Nashbar will sell you quite a number of very plain jerseys. They
even offer a technical-fabric button-front, collared shirt, which might
be a lot of fun for a dressed look on your next group ride.
That said, there's lots of fun jerseys out there (a local fave makes the
rider look like a large glass of Sleeman's), and there you go.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
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Date: 24 Jun 2007 11:30:04
From: jdsingleton
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:57:18 GMT, "Cathy Kearns"
<cathy_kearns@yahoo.com > wrote:
>And how do I judge? By their outfits. I assume someone in full club kit
>who's riding on the edge of road line can hold that line. But I assume
>someone in board shorts a foot inside the edge of road line my swerve out
>into my lane at any moment.
If it's a local club kit, all I assume is they're going to ride a
fairly straight line, rather than weaving back and forth or wobbling.
I also expect them to run traffic lights.
If it's a pro club kit, I figure they're a newbie. Actually, come to
think of it, I rarely see these people on the road, but on the trails
or sidewalk.
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Date: 25 Jun 2007 01:11:16
From: Aeek
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:30:04 GMT, jdsingleton
<jdsingleton@earthlink.net > wrote:
>If it's a pro club kit, I figure they're a newbie. Actually, come to
>think of it, I rarely see these people on the road, but on the trails
>or sidewalk.
Here in Australia, it depends on the season. Summer, they may well be
pros home for the northern off season.
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Date: 23 Jun 2007 17:57:59
From: Dart70ca
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
I'm pretty well with the rest of the group on this one. I wear
board shorts on my bike and my helmet is MORE than 15 yrs old (Bell
V1). I dress like this because I think the tights on a bike look
ridiculous. I wear my tights underneath the t-shirt and shorts on a
long ride just for their wicking ability and anti-chafing
characteristics. The helmet I wear because I like that style. Most of
the crap they sell these days looks like something out of Aliens.
As for hand-signals, I generally go motorcycle-style with those and
actually point in the direction I'm going to turn and using the arm on
that side. I figure that there's always the question of whether or not
the driver understands hand signals but almost no question that they
understand a pointing motion. Braking is usually a non-issue as I'm
only stopping if they are as well. Also kind if hard to brake and
steer effectively using only one hand...
While I probably wouldn't wear an orange safety-vest, I DO put on
reflective bands around ankles and wrists if I'm out at dusk and I
always wear a white t-shirt.
A bar-end mirror is great for watching for inattentive guys behind
you. I try to stay a foot away from anything rough on the shoulder,
whether that means leaving the bike lane or not. If the guy looks as
if he's going to brush-pass, I'll move out and take up a little more
of the lane, then maybe duck back over at the last second to take that
away from him.
While I disagree with your judgement of cyclist ability based on
what they're wearing, I have to say that the guy you saw giving the
false turn-signal that day and looking no-too-steady on the road would
be someone I'd stay away from as well, regardless of what he or she
was wearing.
Keith
|
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Date: 23 Jun 2007 17:19:21
From: Joe S.
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
"Cathy Kearns" <cathy_kearns@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:ypbfi.3436$Rw1.3188@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
> Today I was dropping off my daughter at the horse barn, which happens to
> be situated on one of the most popular recreational cycling routes in the
> country. (I know, as I ride it often...) As I was waiting to turn left off
> this road I saw two cyclists coming toward me. One of them was wearing a
> road construction vest, the other had a helmet that had to be at least 15
> years old. The guy with the old helmet holds his hand up in the perfect
> "I'm turning right" signal. Well, a) the guy really doesn't look like he
> knows what he's doing, and b) the road I'm turning on is hilly enough that
> despite being this close to the bike route, really doesn't attract many
> cyclists. So I don't believe him, and just sit waiting for him to pass.
> Sure enough, he doesn't turn right. Though I suspect, some day someone is
> going to believe he is turning right and T-bone him.
>
> But this got me thinking. I do give cyclists that look like they don't
> know what they are doing much more room than I give experienced looking
> cyclists. And how do I judge? By their outfits. I assume someone in full
> club kit who's riding on the edge of road line can hold that line. But I
> assume someone in board shorts a foot inside the edge of road line my
> swerve out into my lane at any moment.
>
> And I'm not the only one. One weekend I was driving along a two lane road
> with a suicide turn lane through the center early in the morning. It was
> apparent there was some charity ride taking that route. I was not the
> only one pulling all the way into the suicide lane to pass the ride that
> was pretty much entirely in the bike lane, except the occasional swerve.
> So maybe dressing dorky is the way for cars to give you more room. What
> do you all think?
Back in the day -- when I was hotrodding old VW Beetles and drag-racing
them, there was a guy who consistently smoked everyone on the track, me
included.
He, his clothes, his truck, the trailer on which he hauled his VW dragster,
and the dragster itself all resembled one big POS.
However, when you peeked into the toolbox on the trailer, or looked under
the hood of the dragster, it was another story -- top-notch all the way and
it showed on the track -- which is where it counts.
|
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Date: 23 Jun 2007 14:12:17
From:
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
> I like to wobble the wheel a bit when I see cars coming up fast in my
> rearview.
> Invariably they slow down and give me more room.
I do that too and am still alive. I think it works. Also if someone is
coming up fast behind me I'll drift out into the road a little and
then snap closer to the edge of the road as they come up so as to
create a bit more cushion. Not exactly a swerve but a fast drift.
-Rick
|
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Date: 23 Jun 2007 17:16:38
From: JP
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
"Cathy Kearns" <cathy_kearns@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:ypbfi.3436$Rw1.3188@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
>
> But this got me thinking. I do give cyclists that look like they don't
> know what they are doing much more room than I give experienced looking
> cyclists. And how do I judge? By their outfits. I assume someone in full
> club kit who's riding on the edge of road line can hold that line. But I
> assume someone in board shorts a foot inside the edge of road line my
> swerve out into my lane at any moment.
>
> And I'm not the only one. One weekend I was driving along a two lane road
> with a suicide turn lane through the center early in the morning. It was
> apparent there was some charity ride taking that route. I was not the
> only one pulling all the way into the suicide lane to pass the ride that
> was pretty much entirely in the bike lane, except the occasional swerve.
> So maybe dressing dorky is the way for cars to give you more room. What
> do you all think?
I like to wobble the wheel a bit when I see cars coming up fast in my
rearview.
Invariably they slow down and give me more room.
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Date: 23 Jun 2007 13:21:50
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 17:16:38 GMT, "JP" <vze2wx8p@verizon.net > wrote:
>I like to wobble the wheel a bit when I see cars coming up fast in my
>rearview.
>Invariably they slow down and give me more room.
Yep.
I also like to swerve at them head-on when I see them approaching too
fast from the other direction on the traffic calmed bike routes.
Swing bikes are really fun for these kinds of actions.
--
zk
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Date: 23 Jun 2007 09:58:30
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
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On Jun 23, 11:26 am, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:57:18 +0000, Cathy Kearns wrote:
> > I assume someone in full club kit
> > who's riding on the edge of road line can hold that line. But I assume
> > someone in board shorts a foot inside the edge of road line my swerve out
> > into my lane at any moment.
>
> You'd assume wrong. I've seen too many people in full Europoseur gear who
> can barely ride a straight line.
Yep. When I see someone wearing an outfit festooned with logos, I
pretty much assume they're a newb.
>
> The only thing a cyclist's wardrobe will tell you is how much money he
> wants to show off.
>
Or that they're fascinated by all those bright colors.
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Date: 23 Jun 2007 16:26:08
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:57:18 +0000, Cathy Kearns wrote:
> I assume someone in full club kit
> who's riding on the edge of road line can hold that line. But I assume
> someone in board shorts a foot inside the edge of road line my swerve out
> into my lane at any moment.
You'd assume wrong. I've seen too many people in full Europoseur gear who
can barely ride a straight line.
The only thing a cyclist's wardrobe will tell you is how much money he
wants to show off.
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 23:37:06
From: Claire Petersky
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
"Luigi de Guzman" <luigi12081@cox.net > wrote in message
news:AQbfi.151515$dC2.111183@newsfe13.lga...
> The only thing a cyclist's wardrobe will tell you is how much money he
> wants to show off.
Not, say, how comfortable she wants to be? I think I'm much more comfortable
in a decent pair of bike shorts than I would be in a pair of cut-offs, even
just for 5 miles.
--
Warm Regards,
Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
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Date: 23 Jun 2007 15:24:57
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
>> I assume someone in full club kit
>> who's riding on the edge of road line can hold that line. But I assume
>> someone in board shorts a foot inside the edge of road line my swerve out
>> into my lane at any moment.
>
> You'd assume wrong. I've seen too many people in full Europoseur gear who
> can barely ride a straight line.
>
> The only thing a cyclist's wardrobe will tell you is how much money he
> wants to show off.
In Cathy's defense, she's not talking about random pro outfits. She's
talking about "full CLUB kit" (emphasis mine). And, given the area she
lives, most-likely Webcor. That's a highly pre-selected group of riders, who
have had it drilled into them that, when they're wearing that jersey, they
represent the club... what people see them do, reflects upon the club. And
their rides are all about effective & safe riding in a pace line, avoiding
conflicts with cars & equestrians & joggers etc.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
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Date: 24 Jun 2007 15:44:32
From: Cathy Kearns
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > wrote in message
news:%4hfi.6897$c06.2973@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>>> I assume someone in full club kit
>>> who's riding on the edge of road line can hold that line. But I assume
>>> someone in board shorts a foot inside the edge of road line my swerve
>>> out
>>> into my lane at any moment.
>>
>> You'd assume wrong. I've seen too many people in full Europoseur gear
>> who
>> can barely ride a straight line.
>>
>> The only thing a cyclist's wardrobe will tell you is how much money he
>> wants to show off.
>
> In Cathy's defense, she's not talking about random pro outfits. She's
> talking about "full CLUB kit" (emphasis mine). And, given the area she
> lives, most-likely Webcor. That's a highly pre-selected group of riders,
> who have had it drilled into them that, when they're wearing that jersey,
> they represent the club... what people see them do, reflects upon the
> club. And their rides are all about effective & safe riding in a pace
> line, avoiding conflicts with cars & equestrians & joggers etc.
Mike's right, Webcor riders are ubiquitous around here. And I have yet to
see one do something really stupid. I also occasionally see Safeway and some
other yellow and red club. I know the amount of money they spent on these
outfits is zero. (I know a few cat 1 racers....) When I see guys in full
T-Mobile or Discovery kits I assume they got them for father's day from
their loving children. I'm not sure what I think about the guys in the white
jelly belly kits, other than geez, do you know the white shorts are
transparent...
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Date: 23 Jun 2007 18:59:33
From: Neil Brooks
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:26:08 GMT, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12081@cox.net >
wrote:
>On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:57:18 +0000, Cathy Kearns wrote:
>
>> I assume someone in full club kit
>> who's riding on the edge of road line can hold that line. But I assume
>> someone in board shorts a foot inside the edge of road line my swerve out
>> into my lane at any moment.
>
>You'd assume wrong. I've seen too many people in full Europoseur gear who
>can barely ride a straight line.
>
>The only thing a cyclist's wardrobe will tell you is how much money he
>wants to show off.
The racers I know around here (Cat 1's and 2's) often ARE seen wearing
full kit--largely because it's either the gear of THEIR team sponsor,
or simply what their sponsor gives them.
For me, I'll wear any of the $5-10 jerseys and shorts that I can score
at the annual Canari warehouse sale ... whether they make me look like
a Phred or not ;-)
Ya' just can't judge a cyclist's cred by the cycle or the duds. More
like: whether or not they jack you on the hill.
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Date: 23 Jun 2007 16:10:22
From: Rich Clark
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
"Neil Brooks" <neil0502@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:h7rq73lpl9htfvl7258c373i7826pri93n@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:26:08 GMT, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12081@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:57:18 +0000, Cathy Kearns wrote:
>>
>>> I assume someone in full club kit
>>> who's riding on the edge of road line can hold that line. But I assume
>>> someone in board shorts a foot inside the edge of road line my swerve
>>> out
>>> into my lane at any moment.
>>
>>You'd assume wrong. I've seen too many people in full Europoseur gear who
>>can barely ride a straight line.
>>
>>The only thing a cyclist's wardrobe will tell you is how much money he
>>wants to show off.
>
> The racers I know around here (Cat 1's and 2's) often ARE seen wearing
> full kit--largely because it's either the gear of THEIR team sponsor,
> or simply what their sponsor gives them.
In my experience it's usually a mistake to assume racers, professional or
otherwise, have any transportational cycling skills at all. Indeed, you can
generally count on them not to stop at signals (or anywhere else).
Of course, in my experience it's usually a mistake to assume anyone on a
bike is going to do anything predictable. The tiny minority of us who
actually try to behave like traffic rarely present problems to cars or other
cyclists anyway, so treating all cyclists as insane menaces is usually a
good bet.
Especially people riding fixies in Center City Philadelphia.
r
r
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Date: 24 Jun 2007 05:46:50
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
In article <q5Wdnbp8RYK14-DbnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@comcast.com >,
"Rich Clark" <rdclark2SPAM@TRAPcomcast.net > wrote:
> Of course, in my experience it's usually a mistake to assume anyone on a
> bike is going to do anything predictable. The tiny minority of us who
> actually try to behave like traffic rarely present problems to cars or other
> cyclists anyway, so treating all cyclists as insane menaces is usually a
> good bet.
Why limit it to cyclists? Hell, I can't even limit it to vehicles
because I've seen people who can't even *walk* predictably.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
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Date: 23 Jun 2007 10:07:14
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Judging cyclist's competency by their outfit
|
Luigi de Guzman <luigi12081@cox.net > wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:57:18 +0000, Cathy Kearns wrote:
>
>> I assume someone in full club kit
>> who's riding on the edge of road line can hold that line. But I assume
>> someone in board shorts a foot inside the edge of road line my swerve out
>> into my lane at any moment.
>
> You'd assume wrong. I've seen too many people in full Europoseur gear who
> can barely ride a straight line.
Yeah, that was exactly what I was about to post.
> The only thing a cyclist's wardrobe will tell you is how much money he
> wants to show off.
Well, to be fair, it can also show you what kind of ride they're out on.
Cargo shorts and t-shirt - probably popping over to a friends or just
off to the drug store.
Comfortable looking top and cycling shorts - could be 5 miles, could be
fifty miles.
White cycling shorts and no fenders - the sure sign of someone who only
rides this bike when it's totally dry without a cloud in the sky.
Probably out on a training ride.
Full europoseur gear colored matched to their frame - coffee shop.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Don't knock masturbation it's sex with someone I love!"
-Woody Allen
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