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Date: 12 Mar 2007 13:31:21
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Kreitler Challenger now with resistance eventually, or Minoura Action Mag now?
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I've decided to get a set of rollers. The Minoura Action Mag rollers
came into conversation rather promptly, as did of course the Kreitler
Challengers. Unfortunately I'm not in the position right now to spend
the extra couple hundred to get the challengers with the wind
resistance setup; my budget is stretched getting the fleet ready for
spring and my real (i.e. outdoors) riding.
I do want to build technique & smoothness, but I also want to get some
exercise in as well and I'm concerned I'll need resistance as my road
bike is a singlespeed. I've never ridden rollers so I don't know what
to expect for resistance without a resistance unit.
So, do I buy the Minoura Action Mag, which has everything I need out
of the box (for even less $ than the Challengers without resistance)
or do I bite the bullet and buy the Kreitler challengers now, assuming
I'll add the resistance unit down the road? With spring coming up I
doubt I'll be dropping a substantial coin on indoor riding anytime
soon, which tempts me to buy the Minoura. OTOH, I like to buy things
that will last, and enjoy having high-end equipment. This leans me
toward the Kreitlers.
If it were your piggy bank that was being cracked open, what would you
do?
TIA,
Dan
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Date: 19 Mar 2007 07:02:58
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Kreitler Challenger now with resistance eventually, or Minoura Action Mag now?
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On 13, 12:03 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> I learned in a narrow hallway back in the days of toe clips and
> straps. Make sure you get the front roller positioned properly
> relative to the front axle. Running with loose release on the pedals
> sounds like a good idea to start. The thing is you are so much higher
> on the rollers that you might not be able to reach the floor. A
> kitchen chair sounds like a bad idea to me. It will just slide if you
> put any weight on it. Try against a wall on one side, with adequate
> fall room on the other. As long as there is room and you can get your
> cleats out, you should be fine putting a leg down in an emergency. Try
> not to stare at the front wheel. Look at the floor a few feet ahead.
> Lean your elbow on the wall to start, keeping relaxed. Have fun!
Thanks for the solid advice. The Minouras came in Friday, and so far
I'm happy with them.
By the time I got home, got them set up in a suitable location, moved
the front roller, etc. it was past 10 and dinner was ready. I had to
give it a quick go first all the same, even with the threat of a
cooling dinner looming over my head. I took your advice and
positioned myself with a wall on my left and fall room on the right.
I started off leaning on the wall, and pedaled for about a minute
before pushing off the wall. I then wobbled for about 5 seconds
before my bike swiftly deposited me on the hardwood floor with a great
crash. Some laughing and untangling later, I was mandated to eat my
dinner, which I did. After dinner it was late, and I was full and
tired. With an early morning start to a day of hard work ahead of me,
I reluctantly sent myself to bed.
Saturday I worked all day, and then went out for St. Patty's. No
roller riding after that.
Sunday I got a chance to get back on the rollers. I did about a
minute with my elbow on the wall, and then pushed off again. This
time when I started to wobble I hammered the pedals, and the bike
straightened out. I then proceeded to ride them about 5 miles without
incident, though I still wobble if I look too far to the side.
All in all they're fun. I'm working on keeping a straight line and
using as little of the rollers as possible. So far I'm still using
about 6" width of space, maybe a bit more on occasion. On a good
streak I can stay within an inch for about a minute.
The resistance unit is overkill at this juncture, but I'm sure will be
nice to have once I've got a couple hours on the rollers.
People talk about watching TV while riding them. I'm not sure if I
can afford to give that much attention away just yet. Still, I think
I'll get bored on longer sessions without any sort of outside
entertainment. I'm thinking audio book?
I can't wait to get home and log a couple more stationary miles!
Dan
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Date: 19 Mar 2007 18:41:53
From: Bill Marsh
Subject: Re: Kreitler Challenger now with resistance eventually, or Minoura Action Mag now?
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Hi Dan. I used to ride rollers and watch TV. It has to be directley in front
of you and when I was learning I put a yard stick right in front of the
front roller to give me a reference. It will definelty improve your outdoor
skills once you get oon the road, you'll be a lot more stable. Bill
<DanKMTB@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1174312978.811729.111160@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On 13, 12:03 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I learned in a narrow hallway back in the days of toe clips and
>> straps. Make sure you get the front roller positioned properly
>> relative to the front axle. Running with loose release on the pedals
>> sounds like a good idea to start. The thing is you are so much higher
>> on the rollers that you might not be able to reach the floor. A
>> kitchen chair sounds like a bad idea to me. It will just slide if you
>> put any weight on it. Try against a wall on one side, with adequate
>> fall room on the other. As long as there is room and you can get your
>> cleats out, you should be fine putting a leg down in an emergency. Try
>> not to stare at the front wheel. Look at the floor a few feet ahead.
>> Lean your elbow on the wall to start, keeping relaxed. Have fun!
>
>
>
> Thanks for the solid advice. The Minouras came in Friday, and so far
> I'm happy with them.
> By the time I got home, got them set up in a suitable location, moved
> the front roller, etc. it was past 10 and dinner was ready. I had to
> give it a quick go first all the same, even with the threat of a
> cooling dinner looming over my head. I took your advice and
> positioned myself with a wall on my left and fall room on the right.
> I started off leaning on the wall, and pedaled for about a minute
> before pushing off the wall. I then wobbled for about 5 seconds
> before my bike swiftly deposited me on the hardwood floor with a great
> crash. Some laughing and untangling later, I was mandated to eat my
> dinner, which I did. After dinner it was late, and I was full and
> tired. With an early morning start to a day of hard work ahead of me,
> I reluctantly sent myself to bed.
> Saturday I worked all day, and then went out for St. Patty's. No
> roller riding after that.
> Sunday I got a chance to get back on the rollers. I did about a
> minute with my elbow on the wall, and then pushed off again. This
> time when I started to wobble I hammered the pedals, and the bike
> straightened out. I then proceeded to ride them about 5 miles without
> incident, though I still wobble if I look too far to the side.
> All in all they're fun. I'm working on keeping a straight line and
> using as little of the rollers as possible. So far I'm still using
> about 6" width of space, maybe a bit more on occasion. On a good
> streak I can stay within an inch for about a minute.
> The resistance unit is overkill at this juncture, but I'm sure will be
> nice to have once I've got a couple hours on the rollers.
> People talk about watching TV while riding them. I'm not sure if I
> can afford to give that much attention away just yet. Still, I think
> I'll get bored on longer sessions without any sort of outside
> entertainment. I'm thinking audio book?
> I can't wait to get home and log a couple more stationary miles!
>
> Dan
>
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Date: 20 Mar 2007 17:11:38
From: Mike Latondresse
Subject: Re: Kreitler Challenger now with resistance eventually, or Minoura Action Mag now?
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"Bill sh" <Ibswamp@kc.rr.com > wrote in
news:45ff1fce$0$5772$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
> Hi Dan. I used to ride rollers and watch TV. It has to be directley in
> front of you and when I was learning I put a yard stick right in front
> of the front roller to give me a reference.
I found a wrap of duct tape around the front roller gives you a good
reference and it makes a different sound when you are on it so you don't
even have to look.
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Date: 13 Mar 2007 09:03:31
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Kreitler Challenger now with resistance eventually, or Minoura Action Mag now?
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On 13, 3:46 pm, "DanK...@gmail.com" <DanK...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Thanks for the guidance. I think I'm going to go with the Minouras
> for the resistance, since my SS likely won't have the gearing required
> otherwise.
>
> Oddly enough, the only appropriate doorway in my house is the one into
> the bathroom. I don't see myself spending too much time there, so it
> looks like a wall & a kitchen chair will have to do for the learning
> curve.
>
> Did most of you clip in for your first couple times, while learning?
> I'm thinking I'll loosen my pedals, but still click in. I'll touch
> back with what I think and my living room hardwood faceplant stories
> once I get a little time on them.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Dan
I learned in a narrow hallway back in the days of toe clips and
straps. Make sure you get the front roller positioned properly
relative to the front axle. Running with loose release on the pedals
sounds like a good idea to start. The thing is you are so much higher
on the rollers that you might not be able to reach the floor. A
kitchen chair sounds like a bad idea to me. It will just slide if you
put any weight on it. Try against a wall on one side, with adequate
fall room on the other. As long as there is room and you can get your
cleats out, you should be fine putting a leg down in an emergency. Try
not to stare at the front wheel. Look at the floor a few feet ahead.
Lean your elbow on the wall to start, keeping relaxed. Have fun!
Joseph
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Date: 13 Mar 2007 07:46:38
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Kreitler Challenger now with resistance eventually, or Minoura Action Mag now?
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Thanks for the guidance. I think I'm going to go with the Minouras
for the resistance, since my SS likely won't have the gearing required
otherwise.
Oddly enough, the only appropriate doorway in my house is the one into
the bathroom. I don't see myself spending too much time there, so it
looks like a wall & a kitchen chair will have to do for the learning
curve.
Did most of you clip in for your first couple times, while learning?
I'm thinking I'll loosen my pedals, but still click in. I'll touch
back with what I think and my living room hardwood faceplant stories
once I get a little time on them.
Thanks again,
Dan
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Date: 12 Mar 2007 15:28:09
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Kreitler Challenger now with resistance eventually, or Minoura Action Mag now?
|
On 12, 9:31 pm, "DanK...@gmail.com" <DanK...@gmail.com > wrote:
> I've decided to get a set of rollers. The Minoura Action Mag rollers
> came into conversation rather promptly, as did of course the Kreitler
> Challengers. Unfortunately I'm not in the position right now to spend
> the extra couple hundred to get the challengers with the wind
> resistance setup; my budget is stretched getting the fleet ready for
> spring and my real (i.e. outdoors) riding.
> I do want to build technique & smoothness, but I also want to get some
> exercise in as well and I'm concerned I'll need resistance as my road
> bike is a singlespeed. I've never ridden rollers so I don't know what
> to expect for resistance without a resistance unit.
>
> So, do I buy the Minoura Action Mag, which has everything I need out
> of the box (for even less $ than the Challengers without resistance)
> or do I bite the bullet and buy the Kreitler challengers now, assuming
> I'll add the resistance unit down the road? With spring coming up I
> doubt I'll be dropping a substantial coin on indoor riding anytime
> soon, which tempts me to buy the Minoura. OTOH, I like to buy things
> that will last, and enjoy having high-end equipment. This leans me
> toward the Kreitlers.
>
> If it were your piggy bank that was being cracked open, what would you
> do?
>
> TIA,
>
> Dan
As you have never ridden rollers, I'd opt for the cheaper ones to make
sure you like it, and you can replace them at some later date if they
are not up to the task, and if you end up never using them or
disliking rollers it wasn't such a big waste.
Resistance on conventional rollers is almost exclusively from rolling
resistance. This means rider weight and tire pressure are the two most
significant factors in figuring resistance loads. If you are more or
less average or less, the resistance will probably be too light. If
you weigh more, it MAY be acceptable. As I understand it, the
resistance from weight is linear. If I weigh 50% more than you, I have
50% more resistance on the same rollers. You should count on getting
at LEAST 20mph to have a stable ride. According to the Kreitler
wattage chart, a 160lbs rider needs 126W to acheive this. At 230lbs,
you'd need 181W to achieve this. A 160lb rider at 20mph on the road
would need about 200W, so the rollers will feel much too easy and the
rider would use a bigger gear than on the road. The 230lb rider would
need about 230W on the road, so their road gearing woudn't bee too far
off. As you ride a SS, you are probably used to using various
cadences, but the likelyhood of your gearing being suitable on the
rollers is pretty low. I'd go with conventional rollers, and a regular
road bike for starters. You can always drop the pressure on the tires
if you need some more resistance.
I just ordered some expensive TruTrainer rollers (with inertia and
fluid resistance) that should arrive in a day or so. I plan on posting
my experiences with them soon.
Joseph
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Date: 12 Mar 2007 14:26:06
From: amakyonin
Subject: Re: Kreitler Challenger now with resistance eventually, or Minoura Action Mag now?
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I can't speak to the resistance units, but if your gearing is not high
enough on the SS you may be better off with the higher resistance from
the smaller drums of the Poly-lite (3") or Poly-mite (2.25") units.
With Poly-lite rollers I don't start getting good resistance until I
get to 44:13 at ~100rpm. From there I still have gears and cadence
headroom left to get the desired resistance level. You may not be able
to ride at a comfortable cadence with the usual SS gearing. You can
also boost resistance by using lower pressure on some sacrificial
tires. I have no experience with the Minouras but the reviews mention
problems with noise and cracking end caps which steered me toward
Kreitler.
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