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Date: 17 Feb 2007 16:19:31
From: HarryB
Subject: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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On a biking list that I subscribe to, the following statement was made
in reply to a question about the OEM tires that came on a particular
bike:
"Please note that Primos are standard on lots of bents, mostly because
they are cheap to buy. Also note that some Manufacturers, maybe all,
make up cheaper versions tires as OEM specials. A high $ local shop
catering to Rodies removers & DESTROYS all stock tires before delivery
of the bike to the customers. Just too many issues with the tries on
even $5000 bicycle. Having said this also note that the AVERAGE
lifetime use of a new complete bicycle is less than 250 miles. The
industry knows this" (I assume the author meant that the LBS replaces
the cheap tires, not that they deliver the bikes sans tires.)
Does anyone know how prevalent this is, and do tire manufactures sell
two versions of the same tire?
TIA,
Harry
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 18:26:04
From: Ron Hardin
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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AustinMN wrote:
>
> On Feb 18, 6:11 am, Ron Hardin <rhhar...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > I typically put about 60,000 miles on a Huffy before trading up to another Huffy.
>
> I won't argue with the 60,000 miles, but I just can't believe that
> anyone selling Huffy's will take *anything* in trade.
Right, the old one becomes parts. It's a figure of speech.
Actually I transfer the seat and seatpost if possible, which are pretty nice
ones. It's worth spending some money on the saddle.
Also fenders, luggage racks and baskets get transferred. You've got to set the
new one up like the old one was, that you got the way you liked.
--
Ron Hardin
rhhardin@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 07:44:27
From: AustinMN
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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On Feb 18, 6:11 am, Ron Hardin <rhhar...@mindspring.com > wrote:
> I typically put about 60,000 miles on a Huffy before trading up to another Huffy.
I won't argue with the 60,000 miles, but I just can't believe that
anyone selling Huffy's will take *anything* in trade.
> On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
Experience proves otherwise.
Austin
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 22:39:53
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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> On a biking list that I subscribe to, the following statement was made
> in reply to a question about the OEM tires that came on a particular
> bike:
> "Please note that Primos are standard on lots of bents, mostly because
> they are cheap to buy. Also note that some Manufacturers, maybe all,
> make up cheaper versions tires as OEM specials. A high $ local shop
> catering to Rodies removers & DESTROYS all stock tires before delivery
> of the bike to the customers. Just too many issues with the tries on
> even $5000 bicycle.
To be filed under the "unfounded myth" category. Tire quality varies with
the price of the bike; in general, bikes above $2k have pretty nice tires.
If Trek were to put dog-meat tires on nice road bikes, they'd be hearing
from us, and other dealers, quite loudly. Why? Because tire quality has a
big, not small, effect on the perception of the bike's quality on a test
ride. You'd be crazy to save money on tires on an expensive bike. It would
cost you too many sales.
> Having said this also note that the AVERAGE
> lifetime use of a new complete bicycle is less than 250 miles. The
> industry knows this" (I assume the author meant that the LBS replaces
> the cheap tires, not that they deliver the bikes sans tires.)
250 miles might be an average if you factored in all the department-store
bikes, plus mountain bikes that are bought on a whim but never got much use.
But the average road bike likely gets far more use than that. How much use?
Tough to say. Sure, it pains us when we see a bike that, after a few years,
only has a thousand or so miles on it. But even that represents 4 times the
mileage you're talking about. Fortunately, most of our bikes are ridden much
more than that. I would think that to be true for most shops that go to the
time and trouble of getting somebody set up on an appropriate bike, properly
fit.
> Does anyone know how prevalent this is, and do tire manufactures sell
> two versions of the same tire?
There could be multiple versions of similarly-branded tires, but not in the
lines I carry. But you originally brought up Primo & recumbents. Recumbents
are a whole 'nother world, and I can't speak to what goes on in the minds of
such folk. I do know that we've had some issues with Primo tires in general,
but they weren't OEM, they were standard tires purchased with header tags
etc.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 00:11:14
From: DougC
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> .....
> 250 miles might be an average if you factored in all the department-store
> bikes, plus mountain bikes that are bought on a whim but never got much use.
> ....
>
Some years ago (about 15 or 20) the CEO of Huffy was asked why he built
bicycles so cheap. He responded that their research showed that the
average department-store bicycle was almost never ridden more than 75
miles--so Huffy built their bicycles to last.... 75 miles.
~
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 06:39:31
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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>> 250 miles might be an average if you factored in all the department-store
>> bikes, plus mountain bikes that are bought on a whim but never got much
>> use. ....
>
> Some years ago (about 15 or 20) the CEO of Huffy was asked why he built
> bicycles so cheap. He responded that their research showed that the
> average department-store bicycle was almost never ridden more than 75
> miles--so Huffy built their bicycles to last.... 75 miles.
Interesting. So they figure a buck a mile is a reasonable cost for a bike.
That makes my bikes look like a pretty good deal then!
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 02:16:46
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 06:39:31 +0000, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>> 250 miles might be an average if you factored in all the
>>> department-store bikes, plus mountain bikes that are bought on a whim
>>> but never got much use. ....
>>
>> Some years ago (about 15 or 20) the CEO of Huffy was asked why he built
>> bicycles so cheap. He responded that their research showed that the
>> average department-store bicycle was almost never ridden more than 75
>> miles--so Huffy built their bicycles to last.... 75 miles.
>
> Interesting. So they figure a buck a mile is a reasonable cost for a
> bike. That makes my bikes look like a pretty good deal then!
I'd love to see some proof that this story is real!
It meshes with my experience though. Our parents bought Huffy ten speeds
for my sister and I when we started junior high school. Our new commute
was much longer than to elementary school -- 3 miles instead of 1,
on busy roads, too far to pedal our 20" Stingrays comfortably. The Huffies
lasted no more than a couple of months before they became rolling wrecks,
impossible to maintain.
I commandeered my dad's bike, a single speed Schwinn Speedster. My sister
bought a new Lotus ten speed with her paper route money. The Lotus fork
collapsed JRA, as they were known to do. So she wound up with our mom's
Raleigh. These bikes served us well into our 20s. Eventually they were
stolen. I remember when our parents bought these -- they didn't want
"speeds," or anything that could go out of adjustment or break. Single
speed, coaster brake was the way to go. They were right!
We joke about Wal-t bikes, but in fact they're much better than the
cheap bikes of the 70s. How the people running some of those companies
took people's money and slept at night is beyond me. There's still a lot
of junk around, mostly accessories, but it's better than it used to be.
Matt O.
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 05:49:41
From: catzz66
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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Matt O'Toole wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 06:39:31 +0000, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>
>>>>250 miles might be an average if you factored in all the
>>>>department-store bikes, plus mountain bikes that are bought on a whim
>>>>but never got much use. ....
I wish I knew how many miles I rode on my old Western Flyer from Western
Auto.
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 12:11:39
From: Ron Hardin
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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catzz66 wrote:
>
> Matt O'Toole wrote:
> > On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 06:39:31 +0000, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>>250 miles might be an average if you factored in all the
> >>>>department-store bikes, plus mountain bikes that are bought on a whim
> >>>>but never got much use. ....
>
> I wish I knew how many miles I rode on my old Western Flyer from Western
> Auto.
I typically put about 60,000 miles on a Huffy before trading up to another Huffy.
It's not a matter of its breaking so much as a matter of how many components
need replacement at once. It it's more than a couple, a whole new bike is cheaper.
--
Ron Hardin
rhhardin@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 08:43:10
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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Ron Hardin wrote:
:: catzz66 wrote:
:::
::: Matt O'Toole wrote:
:::: On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 06:39:31 +0000, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
::::
::::
::::::: 250 miles might be an average if you factored in all the
::::::: department-store bikes, plus mountain bikes that are bought on
::::::: a whim but never got much use. ....
:::
::: I wish I knew how many miles I rode on my old Western Flyer from
::: Western Auto.
::
:: I typically put about 60,000 miles on a Huffy before trading up to
:: another Huffy.
::
:: It's not a matter of its breaking so much as a matter of how many
:: components
:: need replacement at once. It it's more than a couple, a whole new
:: bike is cheaper.
Wow....I had no idea Huffy's were such good bikes.
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 15:35:52
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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Ron Hardin wrote:
> catzz66 wrote:
>> Matt O'Toole wrote:
>>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 06:39:31 +0000, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> 250 miles might be an average if you factored in all the
>>>>>> department-store bikes, plus mountain bikes that are bought on a whim
>>>>>> but never got much use. ....
>> I wish I knew how many miles I rode on my old Western Flyer from Western
>> Auto.
>
> I typically put about 60,000 miles on a Huffy before trading up to another Huffy.
>
> It's not a matter of its breaking so much as a matter of how many components
> need replacement at once. It it's more than a couple, a whole new bike is cheaper.
>
In defense of Huffy, I bought one for my daughter in 1994 when she was
15. Since she hardly rode it, I decided to, and eventually wound up
taking it to work with me. I have about 5,000 miles on it and it did go
through some parts, like a bottom bracket losing it's bearings, the rear
wheel bearing race wearing out (new 'used' wheel), front quick release
loosing it's guts on the road (and rolling off into the weeds). Wore out
the original knobbies, but nothing really bad failed enough to junk the
bike. I had a new, good, bottom bracket, put in at the LBS, purchases a
new front quick release at the same LBS, and some tires, and he is happy
to sell me parts, while I now keep the Huffy as a third spare. My
daughter, now 28, swears that she will ride with me this summer, so I
keep the tires aired up.
Oh, and I also put on new cranks (Sugino) with 5 point changeable chain
rings. This was one of the last years when Huffy had some dignity and
used the square mount bottom bracket instead of the all too Chinese one
piece chrome plated junk metal cranks.
7 speed rears on all my 26" MTBs, so changing wheels is not a problem.
I have lots of spare parts, being a pack rat, and that has been a money
saver.
Bill Baka
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 19:58:02
From: DougC
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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Bill Baka wrote:
> In defense of Huffy, I bought one for my daughter in 1994 when she was
> 15. Since she hardly rode it, I decided to, and eventually wound up
> taking it to work with me. I have about 5,000 miles on it and it did go
> through some parts, like a bottom bracket losing it's bearings, the rear
> wheel bearing race wearing out (new 'used' wheel), front quick release
> loosing it's guts on the road (and rolling off into the weeds).
> ......
>
> saver.
> Bill Baka
The bearings is the problem with these cheap bikes now: the bearing are
junk, and often a real bike shop cannot get replacements--so you end up
buying a whole new wheel or BB. None of them are sealed, on many they
don't even have dust covers on the BB--you can look in and see the ball
bearings rolling around. If there is no front fender, the front wheel
will throw up water in the rain, into the (unprotected) lower headset
bearing.
These bikes can be okay for a small child who won't take care of it
anyway, they will last a year if you squirt some oil into the bearings
now and then. But they won't last under an adult's weight, and fixing
them when you try is just digging a deeper hole.
~
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 19:21:35
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: LBS Destroys New Tires?
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DougC wrote:
> Bill Baka wrote:
>> In defense of Huffy, I bought one for my daughter in 1994 when she was
>> 15. Since she hardly rode it, I decided to, and eventually wound up
>> taking it to work with me. I have about 5,000 miles on it and it did
>> go through some parts, like a bottom bracket losing it's bearings, the
>> rear wheel bearing race wearing out (new 'used' wheel), front quick
>> release loosing it's guts on the road (and rolling off into the
>> weeds). ......
>> saver.
>> Bill Baka
>
> The bearings is the problem with these cheap bikes now: the bearing are
> junk, and often a real bike shop cannot get replacements--so you end up
> buying a whole new wheel or BB. None of them are sealed, on many they
> don't even have dust covers on the BB--you can look in and see the ball
> bearings rolling around. If there is no front fender, the front wheel
> will throw up water in the rain, into the (unprotected) lower headset
> bearing.
>
> These bikes can be okay for a small child who won't take care of it
> anyway, they will last a year if you squirt some oil into the bearings
> now and then. But they won't last under an adult's weight, and fixing
> them when you try is just digging a deeper hole.
> ~
Bearings is right. Nothing else seems to wear out but I always have to
tighten even the steering head bearings which always get loose. I keep
it around mainly because it is a serviceable bike for when I want to get
stupid and ride in the sand, dumping it about 6 times each time I try
that. I can spit out the sand (usually) but the bike needs a hosing and
oil every time I do that. My general purpose bike these days is a
semi-good Pacific Nomad Aluminum with a front suspension that only works
if I hit a wrist breaking sized bump, but still too good to get full of
sand.
I never throw out anything that can be re-used except for the Huffy
bearings and such. I have everything possible in my garage...somewhere.
Bill Baka
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