Mass Chaos and Confusion

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Date: 07 Nov 2006 07:44:07
From: Marian
Subject: Mass Chaos and Confusion

But my work here is not done yet.

In fact, my work here hasn't officially started yet.

What with a lunch meeting with a tv reporter, followed by getting
dragged along to a press conference, followed by two hours of prep for
the twenty minute interview on Sunday with me and another one of the
famous local bikers (well, famous among the local bikers anyways),
followed by a meeting at the race office, followed by dinner with
(among others) my direct boss, the bike shop manager, coach, the local
head photography guy, and yet another important person whose name and
rank I'm probably supposed to remember ... he's probably from the
Chinese Cycling Assosciation. I think it's safe to say that maybe,
just maybe, I've already started.

Welcome to the first Tour of Hainan Island. Let's hope it will be
successful. Let's hope it comes back next year. Let's hope it looks
good on my resume. They're pulling out enough stops that the two
mountain stages will actually have helicopters for the photo coverage.
Considering that Hainan's third major industry (after tourism and
farming) is secret Chinese military bases and that (at least according
to my friends who work at the airport) most of the island is a no-fly
zone it was pretty impressive to hear them discussing helicopter photo
coverage.

I officially start work on Friday, or maybe that's Thursday, but if
it's Wednesday (today being Tuesday) we'll call you in the morning.
The racers have to be here by Friday night and opening ceremonies are
Sunday morning. Best I can tell, I'm an emergency translator who will
also be doing some office type stuff maybe if I'm not doing something
more important.

With the exception of myself there are very very _very_ few people who
speak Chinese, English, AND bike and all of them are Really Important.
I'm just a local biker who is studying Chinese at the university.

I found myself somewhat worried at the translator's training class
after the comissaire left and the girl sitting next to me quietly asked
"where are we working? Haikou or Sanya?" She managed to sit through
an hour plus presentation in her native language on exactly what a
multi-day stage race is, including trivia like feed zones, king of the
mountain, translators with team assignments being partisan support, why
you should use very simple English with the Mongolian National Team,
and an obliquely worded warning about drinking with anyone from the
team from Moscow, but she still failed to grasp that translators
working for the 2006 International Round Hainan Island Cycling Race
would be _going around the island_ WITH the racers!

And as if my schedule weren't already busy enough there was an amateur
race down in Sanya last weekend. Which is cool. Racing is fun. The
uncool bits were that that race was supposed to happen during the
October Holiday (typhoon), that half of the people who signed up didn't
show, that they changed the categories around, didn't give out even
half the amount of the prize money they posted, and my bikes (read:
main form of transportation) are still in the bike shop waiting for me
to pick them up. Oh yeah, and I'm now officially the best female racer
in the province so I've got a bazillion friends who want to take me out
for celebrating while I'm in the Middle Of Things.

What was that about finding a place for my kitten to stay while I'm out
of town?
What was that about me having a kitten in the first place?
Or the generally acceptable grad student who has been trying to take me
out on a date?

It begins on Sunday.

I hope I'm ready for it.

I hope they're ready for it.

-M

Date: 27 Nov 2006 09:45:20
From: John Kane
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Stephen Harding wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> > Stephen Harding wrote:
> >
> >> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> >>
> >>> Bill wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> That sure as shit wasn't in the 60's, but more like the 90's or at
> >>>> least
> >>>> late 80's. The plane was carrying a US senator to Japan and
> >>>> accidentally
> >>>> overflew a Russian radar installation on an outcropping of their
> >>>> territory where they were closest to Japan and could spy on their air
> >>>> traffic. It was flight KAL-7 or something like that. I am totally
> >>>> amazed
> >>>> that the administration just ignored it except for some indignant
> >>>> noises.
> >>>
> >>> Dumbass -
> >>>
> >>> You've got your head up your ass. It's their territory. If someone
> >>> intrudes, they have the right to do what they want.
> >>>
> >>> BTW, we did the same to an Iranian jetliner. In the Persian Gulf, no
> >>> less, with a destroyer. The jetliner was only 12,000 miles away from an
> >>> American border.
> >
> > Fucking morons on this group. Reagan would have been in his rights to
> > send over a number of F-15s from Japan and flatten that base since they
> > not only shot down an airliner but one that had a member of our
>
> It was no an American airliner. It was Korean and thus up to the
> Koreans to act upon.
>
> > government on board. The only reason that base existed was to spy on
> > traffic in the area and them defending such a 2 bit piece of junk land,
> > a little peninsula sticking down toward Japan was over kill. Reagan
>
> It's the Kamchatka peninsula. A very large area, much or most of
> it under very strict security restrictions in the air or the ground.
>
> > could have easily used an eye for an eye on that one and only blown up
> > the installation with conventional bombs. 200 people killed by being
> > shot down in a $25 million airliner, 200 people bombed on the ground and
> > scratch a $25 million radar.
> > Simple.
>
> And how many lives lost and property destroyed in the response to
> our attack?
>
> The Soviets had every right to be nervous about unidentified aircraft
> flying over their territory. Quite a few American military aircraft
> were shot down during the years of the Cold War, flying over Soviet
> airspace.
>
> They did the same to us although I know of no instance where a Russian
> Bear was shot down wandering across Cape Cod or Aleutian Islands.
>
> Because of the danger of over-reaction to these probe and test and
> spy flights, the US and USSR developed some rather elaborate rules
> in how to play the game.
>
> The US and China did not have such "understandings" and it resulted
> in the near deaths of an American flight crew, loss of the aircraft
> and loss of life and aircraft of a Chinese fighter interceptor.
>
> This sort of stuff doesn't' need to lead to a shooting war.
>
> >> But it was a heck of a lot closer to an American warship in
> >> international waters of the Persian Gulf, on patrol against
> >> Iranian patrol boats attacking shipping there. There had been
> >> some action between these boats and USS Vincenes that very
> >> morning and previous evening.
> >>
> >> The Captain was acting way more aggressively than he should
> >> and probably should have been court tialed, but the entire
> >> screw up was clearly just that, without malicious premeditation.

But damned incompetent to say the least. That was regularly scheduled
flight, something like 3 times a week and Vincennes, an Argus class
crusiser (?) supposedly with one of the best electroninc suites in the
US navy had been in the Gulf for quite a while. They had probably seen
that exact same plane on that exact same flight path at that exact same
time repeatedly . Or were they were they too stupid to notice a
pattern?

You mean he was not court-tialled? Christ! He should of been out of
uniform within a week. He was clearly incompetent. And yes I agree
screw-ups can happen but not that dumb a one.

If I sound a bit upset I was flying into Bahrain 2 days later and some
of us on the flight were just a bit worried that Vincennes was in the
area.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

Date: 23 Nov 2006 06:55:26
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:

> As Tom Sherman pointed out, one of our cruisers mistakenly
> shot down an Iranian passenger jet in Iranian airspace more
> recently. People fuck up. It isn't excusable, but you can't
> conduct diplomacy on the assumption that fuckups will
> never happen. (How appropriate that this conversation
> is in the middle of a thread about organizing bike races!)

There's fuckups and there's fuckups ...

If my getting 800 of the 5000rmb in prizes that the rules said I was
supposed to get was a genuinely honest fuckup, they might have at least
said sorry after the provincial daily printed an article about it in
the newspaper. Maybe even have actually handed out the prizes to the
people who were supposed to get them.

Instead someone called up and asked how the newspaper could print stuff
like that unsubstantiated. They didn't know the facts of the
situation. Who had told them such horrible lies?

I mean, come on, Long Meling was one of the girls they took money from
and she works for Laobanniang. Another was me, and I'm Laobanniang's
adopted foreign daughter. The third was a shal at the big race.
Fucking with us is just plain stupid.

The results were over a day before the awards. The other prize winners
were all from other provinces and their clout is unknown. But the
three of us are known quantities with the kind of guangxi you just
don't mess around with. They had time to fix things, even if it meant
finding cash and shoving it into the envelopes in lieu of the announced
prizes that we didn't get.

But not only did they not say sorry, when I ran into one of the people
responsible he defended the rightness of it cause 'we were just women'
and there weren't enough of us racing so it shouldn't be the proper
prize categories even if we did beat the men. After all, they
announced that the two categories were being combined (into a single
women's category which they did not say was 'common' category until the
prize cups were being handed out). His slinking away before I could
force him into an introduction to one of the commissaires, however, was
about as clear an admission of guilt as one is going to get.

...

As for the big bike race, from where I was I got to hear a lot of the
complaints people were making but I understand from veterans that it
was amazingly well run for a first race.

-M

Date: 23 Nov 2006 06:26:59
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

Zoot Katz wrote:
> On 21 Nov 2006 23:55:13 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Has to be, cause the guy in the picture on that website definitely is
> >not the one who had his own translator. That guy was older.
> >
> >The prize jerseys were Champion System clothing.
>
> As near as I can figure, Carlie Issendorf is now 46 years old.
> (racing since 1978 when he was eight years old)
>
> Those are obviously old photos of him on the website JFT linked.
> What's weird is that he looks younger in the photo dated 2002 than
> the photo with the 2001 date.
>
> Neither of those photos look to be that of a man in his forties.
>
> Just how old was the photographer you saw?

The photographer was late 30s or maybe early 40s... long curly hair
(thick enough and curly enough that he understood why I shave the back
of my head up to the helmet line), three film cameras with various cool
lenses, and this was to be his last race in a book on international
bike races.

And I don't think he was a biker though he seemed to know a fair bit
about races.

The guy with his own translator looked to be early 50s and had glasses.
Comments about his bad taste in clothing are unwarranted since the
garish Hawaiian print shirts were provided to all the VIPs and lots of
people were wearing them.

-M

Date: 22 Nov 2006 20:27:42
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Stephen Harding wrote:
>
> The Captain was acting way more aggressively than he should
> and probably should have been court tialed, but the entire
> screw up was clearly just that, without malicious premeditation.

IIRC, they did courts tial him.

> The Russian shootdown of KAL-007 can not be justified under
> any way. The MiGs made visual contact on the airliner and
> reported its identity. It was not mistaken as a US spy aircraft,
> yet the airliner was shotdown under orders by ground control.

Dumbass -

The Kamchatka peninsula is very much a contiguous part of
Soviet/Russian territory. It's much more continguous, than say, the
island of Hawaii is to ours.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Date: 22 Nov 2006 01:30:56
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Bill wrote:
>
> That sure as shit wasn't in the 60's, but more like the 90's or at least
> late 80's. The plane was carrying a US senator to Japan and accidentally
> overflew a Russian radar installation on an outcropping of their
> territory where they were closest to Japan and could spy on their air
> traffic. It was flight KAL-7 or something like that. I am totally amazed
> that the administration just ignored it except for some indignant
> noises.

Dumbass -

You've got your head up your ass. It's their territory. If someone
intrudes, they have the right to do what they want.

BTW, we did the same to an Iranian jetliner. In the Persian Gulf, no
less, with a destroyer. The jetliner was only 12,000 miles away from an
American border.

From:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/flight801/stories/july88crash.htm

Navy Missile Downs Iranian Jetliner
By George C. Wilson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 4, 1988; Page A01

A U.S. warship fighting gunboats in the Persian Gulf yesterday mistook
an Iranian civilian jetliner for an attacking Iranian F14 fighter plane
and blew it out of the hazy sky with a heat-seeking missile, the
Pentagon announced. Iran said 290 persons were aboard the European-made
A300 Airbus and that all had perished.

"The U.S. government deeply regrets this incident," Adm. William J.
Crowe Jr., chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Pentagon news
conference.

<snip ><end>

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Date: 22 Nov 2006 14:20:37
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>>That sure as shit wasn't in the 60's, but more like the 90's or at least
>>late 80's. The plane was carrying a US senator to Japan and accidentally
>>overflew a Russian radar installation on an outcropping of their
>>territory where they were closest to Japan and could spy on their air
>>traffic. It was flight KAL-7 or something like that. I am totally amazed
>>that the administration just ignored it except for some indignant
>>noises.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> You've got your head up your ass. It's their territory. If someone
> intrudes, they have the right to do what they want.
>
> BTW, we did the same to an Iranian jetliner. In the Persian Gulf, no
> less, with a destroyer. The jetliner was only 12,000 miles away from an
> American border.

But it was a heck of a lot closer to an American warship in
international waters of the Persian Gulf, on patrol against
Iranian patrol boats attacking shipping there. There had been
some action between these boats and USS Vincenes that very
morning and previous evening.

The Captain was acting way more aggressively than he should
and probably should have been court tialed, but the entire
screw up was clearly just that, without malicious premeditation.

The Russian shootdown of KAL-007 can not be justified under
any way. The MiGs made visual contact on the airliner and
reported its identity. It was not mistaken as a US spy aircraft,
yet the airliner was shotdown under orders by ground control.

It was nothing more than a local commander, embarrassed that
such an aircraft had been flying over restricted airspace for
so long, felt compelled to destroy it to cover his ass.

SMH

Date: 22 Nov 2006 15:27:26
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Stephen Harding wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> That sure as shit wasn't in the 60's, but more like the 90's or at least
>>> late 80's. The plane was carrying a US senator to Japan and accidentally
>>> overflew a Russian radar installation on an outcropping of their
>>> territory where they were closest to Japan and could spy on their air
>>> traffic. It was flight KAL-7 or something like that. I am totally amazed
>>> that the administration just ignored it except for some indignant
>>> noises.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dumbass -
>>
>>
>> You've got your head up your ass. It's their territory. If someone
>> intrudes, they have the right to do what they want.
>>
>> BTW, we did the same to an Iranian jetliner. In the Persian Gulf, no
>> less, with a destroyer. The jetliner was only 12,000 miles away from an
>> American border.

Fucking morons on this group. Reagan would have been in his rights to
send over a number of F-15s from Japan and flatten that base since they
not only shot down an airliner but one that had a member of our
government on board. The only reason that base existed was to spy on
traffic in the area and them defending such a 2 bit piece of junk land,
a little peninsula sticking down toward Japan was over kill. Reagan
could have easily used an eye for an eye on that one and only blown up
the installation with conventional bombs. 200 people killed by being
shot down in a $25 million airliner, 200 people bombed on the ground and
scratch a $25 million radar.
Simple.
>
> But it was a heck of a lot closer to an American warship in
> international waters of the Persian Gulf, on patrol against
> Iranian patrol boats attacking shipping there. There had been
> some action between these boats and USS Vincenes that very
> morning and previous evening.
>
> The Captain was acting way more aggressively than he should
> and probably should have been court tialed, but the entire
> screw up was clearly just that, without malicious premeditation.
>
> The Russian shootdown of KAL-007 can not be justified under
> any way. The MiGs made visual contact on the airliner and
> reported its identity. It was not mistaken as a US spy aircraft,
> yet the airliner was shotdown under orders by ground control.
>
> It was nothing more than a local commander, embarrassed that
> such an aircraft had been flying over restricted airspace for
> so long, felt compelled to destroy it to cover his ass.

Like I said, his ass should have been covered in American bombs, then we
could have offered to replace the station with a warning that if that
kind of shit ever happened again, we would blow it away again.
That was a spy post, not much more.
Bill Baka
>
>
> SMH

Date: 22 Nov 2006 19:28:17
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

In article <y%Z8h.342$wc5.43@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net >, Bill <bbaka@comcast.net>
wrote:

> Fucking morons on this group. Reagan would have been in his rights to
> send over a number of F-15s from Japan and flatten that base since they
> not only shot down an airliner but one that had a member of our
> government on board. The only reason that base existed was to spy on
> traffic in the area and them defending such a 2 bit piece of junk land,
> a little peninsula sticking down toward Japan was over kill.

Might be more to it than that:
______________________

David Pearson notes in his book (KAL 007: The Cover-Up) that the flightpath of KAL
007 "passed over Soviet missile-testing areas, over the sites of several large
phased-array radars, and near the Soviet subine pens at Petropavlovsk" on the
Kamchatka peninsula. Similarly the plane passed within a few dozen miles of Soviet
air and navy bases on Sakhalin island, and if it had not been shot down as it left
Sakhalin airspace, Pearson says, it was "on a heading that would have taken it
eventually over the Soviet military center at Vladivostok."
______________________

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAL_007

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Date: 22 Nov 2006 19:19:03
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Bill wrote:
> Stephen Harding wrote:
>
>> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> That sure as shit wasn't in the 60's, but more like the 90's or at
>>>> least
>>>> late 80's. The plane was carrying a US senator to Japan and
>>>> accidentally
>>>> overflew a Russian radar installation on an outcropping of their
>>>> territory where they were closest to Japan and could spy on their air
>>>> traffic. It was flight KAL-7 or something like that. I am totally
>>>> amazed
>>>> that the administration just ignored it except for some indignant
>>>> noises.
>>>
>>> Dumbass -
>>>
>>> You've got your head up your ass. It's their territory. If someone
>>> intrudes, they have the right to do what they want.
>>>
>>> BTW, we did the same to an Iranian jetliner. In the Persian Gulf, no
>>> less, with a destroyer. The jetliner was only 12,000 miles away from an
>>> American border.
>
> Fucking morons on this group. Reagan would have been in his rights to
> send over a number of F-15s from Japan and flatten that base since they
> not only shot down an airliner but one that had a member of our

It was no an American airliner. It was Korean and thus up to the
Koreans to act upon.

> government on board. The only reason that base existed was to spy on
> traffic in the area and them defending such a 2 bit piece of junk land,
> a little peninsula sticking down toward Japan was over kill. Reagan

It's the Kamchatka peninsula. A very large area, much or most of
it under very strict security restrictions in the air or the ground.

> could have easily used an eye for an eye on that one and only blown up
> the installation with conventional bombs. 200 people killed by being
> shot down in a $25 million airliner, 200 people bombed on the ground and
> scratch a $25 million radar.
> Simple.

And how many lives lost and property destroyed in the response to
our attack?

The Soviets had every right to be nervous about unidentified aircraft
flying over their territory. Quite a few American military aircraft
were shot down during the years of the Cold War, flying over Soviet
airspace.

They did the same to us although I know of no instance where a Russian
Bear was shot down wandering across Cape Cod or Aleutian Islands.

Because of the danger of over-reaction to these probe and test and
spy flights, the US and USSR developed some rather elaborate rules
in how to play the game.

The US and China did not have such "understandings" and it resulted
in the near deaths of an American flight crew, loss of the aircraft
and loss of life and aircraft of a Chinese fighter interceptor.

This sort of stuff doesn't' need to lead to a shooting war.

>> But it was a heck of a lot closer to an American warship in
>> international waters of the Persian Gulf, on patrol against
>> Iranian patrol boats attacking shipping there. There had been
>> some action between these boats and USS Vincenes that very
>> morning and previous evening.
>>
>> The Captain was acting way more aggressively than he should
>> and probably should have been court tialed, but the entire
>> screw up was clearly just that, without malicious premeditation.
>>
>> The Russian shootdown of KAL-007 can not be justified under
>> any way. The MiGs made visual contact on the airliner and
>> reported its identity. It was not mistaken as a US spy aircraft,
>> yet the airliner was shotdown under orders by ground control.
>>
>> It was nothing more than a local commander, embarrassed that
>> such an aircraft had been flying over restricted airspace for
>> so long, felt compelled to destroy it to cover his ass.
>
> Like I said, his ass should have been covered in American bombs, then we
> could have offered to replace the station with a warning that if that
> kind of shit ever happened again, we would blow it away again.
> That was a spy post, not much more.

It was a "spy post" in *their* territory!

SMH

Date: 22 Nov 2006 00:54:50
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Bill wrote:
> William R. Mattil wrote:

> > Did you forget about the Passenger Jet that the Soviets shot down ? My
> > memory is failing but ISTR that it was in the 60's ?
> >
> > Bill
>
> That sure as shit wasn't in the 60's, but more like the 90's or at least
> late 80's. The plane was carrying a US senator to Japan and accidentally
> overflew a Russian radar installation on an outcropping of their
> territory where they were closest to Japan and could spy on their air
> traffic. It was flight KAL-7 or something like that. I am totally amazed
> that the administration just ignored it except for some indignant
> noises. It would have seemed only right to take out that radar base and
> just say "An eye for an eye.", since they did shoot down a 747 full of
> American tourists and a senator.
> Bill Baka

Fortunately, even in saber-rattling phase, Ronald Reagan had
more sense than you, since a direct pre-meditated attack on
a Soviet military installation could easily have escalated into
a nuclear conflict.

The year was 1983, the flight was KAL-007, the plane was way
the hell off course, most likely due to a misprogramming of
waypoints into their automated navigation system, and to my
knowledge the best book on the subject was Seymour Hersh's
"The Target Is Destroyed." The Wikipedia page seems relatively
fair: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Flight_007

IIRC, the shootdown order was given by local
commanders who may gave exceeded their authority. At the
time, the US knew from sigint that the Soviets genuinely had
confused the plane with one of our RC-135 recon aircraft, but
we did not acknowledge that we knew that to avoid exposing
the sigint and for propaganda reasons.

As Tom Sherman pointed out, one of our cruisers mistakenly
shot down an Iranian passenger jet in Iranian airspace more
recently. People fuck up. It isn't excusable, but you can't
conduct diplomacy on the assumption that fuckups will
never happen. (How appropriate that this conversation
is in the middle of a thread about organizing bike races!)

Ben

Date: 22 Nov 2006 00:08:02
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> ian wrote:
> > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> > > You go girl!
> > >
> > > Glad to finally have some bike racing content in r.b.r.
> >
> > They changed the original date of the race because of a typhoon. Then,
> > more than half of the people who signed up didn't show. And they
> > didn't get walk-ins. So, notwithstanding the fact that seven of the
> > eight competitors had signed up for 'advanced' they decided to combine
> > women's 'advanced' and women's 'common' into one category and call it
> > 'common'.
> >
> > Fine, so be it.
> >
> > But if we start a minute _after_ the men's 33 kilometer 'common' race
> > and end up catching up with their peloton, passing their peloton,
> > catching up with their breakaway, passing their breakaway, taking men's
> > first and second place in on the back of our paceline, and dropping
> > them before the final sprint YOU DAMN WELL BETTER CHANGE THE CATEGORY
> > BACK TO ADVANCED.
>
> Most excellent.
>
> In a USCF race, different categories aren't supposed to
> work together, at least not if it's in the upper places and
> affects the race results. The men's first and second places
> could be DQ'ed for drafting you.

And if the ladies from Guangzhou had actually succeeded in having their
friend in the men's race lead them away from us, we might have groused
about it. As it was the guys who finished ahead were already ahead of
the field and merely got a better time than they otherwise would have
had.

> However, an even more fitting punishment would be to
> trash-talk them mercilessly. It's the macho-complex
> equivalent of turning one's opponent's strength against
> himself: some men won't have a complex about being
> dropped by a woman, but the ones who care, do they
> ever care.

Right now everyone involved is far too busy trash talking the race to
get around to trash talking the competition. The guys involved would
have no call to be embarrassed about us catching up to and passing
them. They really were appropriately in the lower category. It's more
an issue that they should be pleased that it took us 20km to catch up
to them. There were some stragglers that we passed in the first two or
three klicks.

Trash talk A Wei, Lao Er, and Long Ge for not getting good results in
their race due to taking a wrong turn, GETTING LOST, and not finishing
maybe, but not the guys in the 33km for being passed by us.

Seven of the eight of us signed up for advanced. Three of those seven
were tetchy about the fact that the original distance for women's
advanced and common was the same and why couldn't we have a 60km race
like the men?

-M

Date: 21 Nov 2006 23:55:13
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 20 Nov 2006 22:33:11 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >ian wrote:
> >
> >> I wonder if Charlie Issendorf is the photographer from the Netherlands.
> >> There weren't any other foreign photographers that I noticed (and I
> >> ought to have noticed), but this guy (who is doing a book on bike races
> >> around the world) was only carrying film cameras and I can't imagine
> >> his pictures making it onto a website that quickly.
> >
> >I'm thinking it can't be... judging from how much he was bitching in
> >Stages 5 and 6 after he got on the bus with us about how he was only
> >now finally getting to see anything because his original ride (in a
> >press wagon) mostly served to get people from a to b and wasn't
> >intended for seeing the race the way the motorcycles were and how it
> >sucked that he couldn't get a seat on a moto due to his credentials
> >being screwed up.
> >
> >But I can't figure out who could have taken the pictures, unless it was
> >the older English speaking vip who had his own translator with him.
>
> This is Charlie Issendorf:
> http://www.gsmengoniusa.com/_roster/charlie.htm
>
> I don't think he was at that race, but he is invovled with Champion
> System clothing which has production in China, I believe, and I think
> someone on the race was sending him pics which he was forwarding.

Has to be, cause the guy in the picture on that website definitely is
not the one who had his own translator. That guy was older.

The prize jerseys were Champion System clothing.

-M

Date: 22 Nov 2006 00:31:17
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On 21 Nov 2006 23:55:13 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com >
wrote:

>Has to be, cause the guy in the picture on that website definitely is
>not the one who had his own translator. That guy was older.
>
>The prize jerseys were Champion System clothing.

As near as I can figure, Carlie Issendorf is now 46 years old.
(racing since 1978 when he was eight years old)

Those are obviously old photos of him on the website JFT linked.
What's weird is that he looks younger in the photo dated 2002 than
the photo with the 2001 date.

Neither of those photos look to be that of a man in his forties.

Just how old was the photographer you saw?
--
zk

Date: 22 Nov 2006 15:29:55
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

Date: 22 Nov 2006 05:37:13
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:31:17 -0800, Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com >
wrote:

>As near as I can figure, Carlie Issendorf is now 46 years old.
>(racing since 1978 when he was eight years old)

36(ish) you mean, which is about right. He might be a couple years
older than that.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 22 Nov 2006 00:46:42
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:31:17 -0800, without thinking Zoot Katz
<zootkatz@operamail.com > wrote:

>On 21 Nov 2006 23:55:13 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Has to be, cause the guy in the picture on that website definitely is
>>not the one who had his own translator. That guy was older.
>>
>>The prize jerseys were Champion System clothing.
>
>As near as I can figure, Carlie Issendorf is now 46 years old.
>(racing since 1978 when he was eight years old)
>
Well, you evidently can't figure very well, Zoot.
>
>Neither of those photos look to be that of a man in his forties.

Of course they don't. Charlie's got another 10 years before he
catches up with you brain fart.

Say goodnight Zoot.
--
zk

Date: 23 Nov 2006 02:27:48
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

In article <ia38m2pra0e7s11l42crlmvjq0qefm5qn0@4ax.com >,
Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com > wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:31:17 -0800, without thinking Zoot Katz
> <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote:
>
> >On 21 Nov 2006 23:55:13 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Has to be, cause the guy in the picture on that website definitely is
> >>not the one who had his own translator. That guy was older.
> >>
> >>The prize jerseys were Champion System clothing.
> >
> >As near as I can figure, Carlie Issendorf is now 46 years old.
> >(racing since 1978 when he was eight years old)
> >
> Well, you evidently can't figure very well, Zoot.
> >
> >Neither of those photos look to be that of a man in his forties.
>
> Of course they don't. Charlie's got another 10 years before he
> catches up with you brain fart.
>
> Say goodnight Zoot.

Hm. Recently we've had a lot of discussion in RBR about the kind of
mental composition that speaks of itself in the third person in news
posts

I don't think any of us conceived of speaking to one's self in the
second person across multiple posts.

Please, go on...

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Date: 22 Nov 2006 18:50:51
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:27:48 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:

>In article <ia38m2pra0e7s11l42crlmvjq0qefm5qn0@4ax.com>,
> Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:31:17 -0800, without thinking Zoot Katz
>> <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On 21 Nov 2006 23:55:13 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>Has to be, cause the guy in the picture on that website definitely is
>> >>not the one who had his own translator. That guy was older.
>> >>
>> >>The prize jerseys were Champion System clothing.
>> >
>> >As near as I can figure, Carlie Issendorf is now 46 years old.
>> >(racing since 1978 when he was eight years old)
>> >
>> Well, you evidently can't figure very well, Zoot.
>> >
>> >Neither of those photos look to be that of a man in his forties.
>>
>> Of course they don't. Charlie's got another 10 years before he
>> catches up with you brain fart.
>>
>> Say goodnight Zoot.
>
>Hm. Recently we've had a lot of discussion in RBR about the kind of
>mental composition that speaks of itself in the third person in news
>posts
>
>I don't think any of us conceived of speaking to one's self in the
>second person across multiple posts.
>
>Please, go on...

Zoot, myself and I have nothing to add that Fabrizio and himself
hasn't already covered.
--
zk

Date: 21 Nov 2006 23:08:54
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Bill wrote:
> William R. Mattil wrote:
> > Paul Turner wrote:
> >
> >> No, we would expect one of our planes to escort it without colliding.
> >> The Soviet Union flew the same kind of off-shore spy missions
> >> regularly. In 1992 the U.S., Russia, and a couple of dozen other
> >> countries signed an "Open Skies Treaty" that permits spy flights over
> >> one another's territories. They all realized that a certain amount of
> >> spying is a good thing, since it allays suspicion and reduces the
> >> chance that one nation will respond to an imaginary threat from
> >> another.
> >
> > Yo Paul,
> >
> > Did you forget about the Passenger Jet that the Soviets shot down ? My
> > memory is failing but ISTR that it was in the 60's ?
> >
> > Bill
>
> That sure as shit wasn't in the 60's, but more like the 90's or at least
> late 80's. The plane was carrying a US senator to Japan and accidentally
> overflew a Russian radar installation on an outcropping of their
> territory where they were closest to Japan and could spy on their air
> traffic. It was flight KAL-7 or something like that. I am totally amazed
> that the administration just ignored it except for some indignant
> noises. It would have seemed only right to take out that radar base and
> just say "An eye for an eye.", since they did shoot down a 747 full of
> American tourists and a senator.

Cathay Pacific Douglas DC-4 (VR-HEU) was shot at by an air force
fighter from the People's Republic of China south of Hainan Island
above the South China Sea on July 23, 1954 and ditched on the sea with
10 of the 18 passengers dying.

El Al Lockheed Constellation shot down over Bulgaria on July 27, 1955
killing 58 persons.

Libyan Arab Airlines Flight 114 (Boeing 727-224) was shot down by
Israeli Defense Forces on February 21, 1973, killing 108 of the 113
passengers and crew.

Korean Air Flight 902 (Boeing 707) was shot with one missile on April
20, 1978 by a Soviet Su-15 killing two passengers and then forced to
land inside Soviet territory by a second Su-15.

Korean Air Lines flight KAL 007 (Boeing 747-200) was shot down on
September 1, 1983 by two Soviet Su-15s just west of Sakhalin Island
killing all 269 passengers and crew, including U.S. congressman
Lawrence McDonald.

Iran Air Flight 655 (Airbus A300B2) was shot down on July 3, 1988 by
the USS Vincennes (operating in Iranian territorial waters) killing all
290 passengers and crew.

Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 (Tupolev-154) was unintentionally shot
down over the Black Sea by a Ukrainian missile on October 4, 2001,
killing an estimated 78 persons.

--
Tom Sherman - Post Free or Die!

Date: 21 Nov 2006 14:04:42
From: Paul Turner
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> photoshoppper@gmail.com wrote:
> > While you are over there, see what you can do about getting them to
> > hand-over our damaged US Navy spy plane from a few years back. The one
> > that survived the collision with the hot-shot (now dead) Chinese pilot.

> Dumbass -
>
> We are so hypocritical to get riled up about that.
>
> Can you imagine the brouhaha if a Chinese/Russian/Iranian spy plane was
> on our border? We'd expect one of our planes to buzz them.

No, we would expect one of our planes to escort it without colliding.
The Soviet Union flew the same kind of off-shore spy missions
regularly. In 1992 the U.S., Russia, and a couple of dozen other
countries signed an "Open Skies Treaty" that permits spy flights over
one another's territories. They all realized that a certain amount of
spying is a good thing, since it allays suspicion and reduces the
chance that one nation will respond to an imaginary threat from
another.

--
Paul Turner

Date: 22 Nov 2006 00:16:34
From: William R. Mattil
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Paul Turner wrote:

> No, we would expect one of our planes to escort it without colliding.
> The Soviet Union flew the same kind of off-shore spy missions
> regularly. In 1992 the U.S., Russia, and a couple of dozen other
> countries signed an "Open Skies Treaty" that permits spy flights over
> one another's territories. They all realized that a certain amount of
> spying is a good thing, since it allays suspicion and reduces the
> chance that one nation will respond to an imaginary threat from
> another.

Yo Paul,

Did you forget about the Passenger Jet that the Soviets shot down ? My
memory is failing but ISTR that it was in the 60's ?

Bill

Date: 22 Nov 2006 00:24:34
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

William R. Mattil wrote:
> Paul Turner wrote:
>
>> No, we would expect one of our planes to escort it without colliding.
>> The Soviet Union flew the same kind of off-shore spy missions
>> regularly. In 1992 the U.S., Russia, and a couple of dozen other
>> countries signed an "Open Skies Treaty" that permits spy flights over
>> one another's territories. They all realized that a certain amount of
>> spying is a good thing, since it allays suspicion and reduces the
>> chance that one nation will respond to an imaginary threat from
>> another.
>
> Yo Paul,
>
> Did you forget about the Passenger Jet that the Soviets shot down ? My
> memory is failing but ISTR that it was in the 60's ?
>
> Bill

That sure as shit wasn't in the 60's, but more like the 90's or at least
late 80's. The plane was carrying a US senator to Japan and accidentally
overflew a Russian radar installation on an outcropping of their
territory where they were closest to Japan and could spy on their air
traffic. It was flight KAL-7 or something like that. I am totally amazed
that the administration just ignored it except for some indignant
noises. It would have seemed only right to take out that radar base and
just say "An eye for an eye.", since they did shoot down a 747 full of
American tourists and a senator.
Bill Baka

Date: 22 Nov 2006 05:31:57
From: William R. Mattil
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Date: 21 Nov 2006 00:46:43
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

ian wrote:
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> > You go girl!
> >
> > Glad to finally have some bike racing content in r.b.r.
>
> They changed the original date of the race because of a typhoon. Then,
> more than half of the people who signed up didn't show. And they
> didn't get walk-ins. So, notwithstanding the fact that seven of the
> eight competitors had signed up for 'advanced' they decided to combine
> women's 'advanced' and women's 'common' into one category and call it
> 'common'.
>
> Fine, so be it.
>
> But if we start a minute _after_ the men's 33 kilometer 'common' race
> and end up catching up with their peloton, passing their peloton,
> catching up with their breakaway, passing their breakaway, taking men's
> first and second place in on the back of our paceline, and dropping
> them before the final sprint YOU DAMN WELL BETTER CHANGE THE CATEGORY
> BACK TO ADVANCED.

Most excellent.

In a USCF race, different categories aren't supposed to
work together, at least not if it's in the upper places and
affects the race results. The men's first and second places
could be DQ'ed for drafting you.

However, an even more fitting punishment would be to
trash-talk them mercilessly. It's the macho-complex
equivalent of turning one's opponent's strength against
himself: some men won't have a complex about being
dropped by a woman, but the ones who care, do they
ever care.

Ben

Date: 21 Nov 2006 11:24:47
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On 21 Nov 2006 00:46:43 -0800, "bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:

>ian wrote:
>> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> > You go girl!
>> >
>> > Glad to finally have some bike racing content in r.b.r.
>>
>> They changed the original date of the race because of a typhoon. Then,
>> more than half of the people who signed up didn't show. And they
>> didn't get walk-ins. So, notwithstanding the fact that seven of the
>> eight competitors had signed up for 'advanced' they decided to combine
>> women's 'advanced' and women's 'common' into one category and call it
>> 'common'.
>>
>> Fine, so be it.
>>
>> But if we start a minute _after_ the men's 33 kilometer 'common' race
>> and end up catching up with their peloton, passing their peloton,
>> catching up with their breakaway, passing their breakaway, taking men's
>> first and second place in on the back of our paceline, and dropping
>> them before the final sprint YOU DAMN WELL BETTER CHANGE THE CATEGORY
>> BACK TO ADVANCED.
>
>Most excellent.
>
>In a USCF race, different categories aren't supposed to
>work together, at least not if it's in the upper places and
>affects the race results. The men's first and second places
>could be DQ'ed for drafting you.
>
>However, an even more fitting punishment would be to
>trash-talk them mercilessly. It's the macho-complex
>equivalent of turning one's opponent's strength against
>himself: some men won't have a complex about being
>dropped by a woman, but the ones who care, do they
>ever care.

I might once have cared.

Got over it.

Ron

Date: 21 Nov 2006 00:37:24
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

photoshoppper@gmail.com wrote:
> While you are over there, see what you can do about getting them to
> hand-over our damaged US Navy spy plane from a few years back. The one
> that survived the collision with the hot-shot (now dead) Chinese pilot.

Dumbass -

We are so hypocritical to get riled up about that.

Can you imagine the brouhaha if a Chinese/Russian/Iranian spy plane was
on our border? We'd expect one of our planes to buzz them.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Date: 20 Nov 2006 22:33:11
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

ian wrote:

> I wonder if Charlie Issendorf is the photographer from the Netherlands.
> There weren't any other foreign photographers that I noticed (and I
> ought to have noticed), but this guy (who is doing a book on bike races
> around the world) was only carrying film cameras and I can't imagine
> his pictures making it onto a website that quickly.

I'm thinking it can't be... judging from how much he was bitching in
Stages 5 and 6 after he got on the bus with us about how he was only
now finally getting to see anything because his original ride (in a
press wagon) mostly served to get people from a to b and wasn't
intended for seeing the race the way the motorcycles were and how it
sucked that he couldn't get a seat on a moto due to his credentials
being screwed up.

But I can't figure out who could have taken the pictures, unless it was
the older English speaking vip who had his own translator with him.

-M

Date: 22 Nov 2006 20:36:24
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

In article <m78am2hqjqul4rn5do22musrqfgn0383qu@4ax.com >,
Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com > writes:
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:59:50 -0800, tkeats2005@hotmail.com (Tom
> Keats) wrote:
>
>>Bearded?! He has nothing to hide with whiskers.
>>He's so good-lookin', the guys on his team call him "Face".
>
> uhhh, I wouldn't be so sure that's the origin of the nickname.
> I think it has more to do with his wearing knee warmers all year.

But knee warmers are useful for pinning happy-face buttons onto.
Which, incidentally, work as aerodynamic fairings.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 21 Nov 2006 05:26:16
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On 20 Nov 2006 22:33:11 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com >
wrote:

>
>ian wrote:
>
>> I wonder if Charlie Issendorf is the photographer from the Netherlands.
>> There weren't any other foreign photographers that I noticed (and I
>> ought to have noticed), but this guy (who is doing a book on bike races
>> around the world) was only carrying film cameras and I can't imagine
>> his pictures making it onto a website that quickly.
>
>I'm thinking it can't be... judging from how much he was bitching in
>Stages 5 and 6 after he got on the bus with us about how he was only
>now finally getting to see anything because his original ride (in a
>press wagon) mostly served to get people from a to b and wasn't
>intended for seeing the race the way the motorcycles were and how it
>sucked that he couldn't get a seat on a moto due to his credentials
>being screwed up.
>
>But I can't figure out who could have taken the pictures, unless it was
>the older English speaking vip who had his own translator with him.

This is Charlie Issendorf:
http://www.gsmengoniusa.com/_roster/charlie.htm

I don't think he was at that race, but he is invovled with Champion
System clothing which has production in China, I believe, and I think
someone on the race was sending him pics which he was forwarding.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 20 Nov 2006 23:00:28
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On 20 Nov 2006 22:33:11 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com >
wrote, in part:

>
>But I can't figure out who could have taken the pictures, unless it was
>the older English speaking vip who had his own translator with him.

I'll bet that's the guy.

If you google "Charlie Issendorf" you'll see he's based in New York
and pretty well connected with racing. He also owns a cycling clothes
company.

I'd further wager that the clothing is made in China so he probably
already had his own contacts there.
--
zk

Date: 20 Nov 2006 22:24:35
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

Zoot Katz wrote:
> On 20 Nov 2006 01:54:15 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Staff Member, Secretariat of the Race Office of the Organizing
> >Committee of the 2006 Tour de Hainan.
> >
> >On the one hand it sounds a lot more impressive than it felt.
> \
> Thank you for your entertaining account.
>
> I was following the sketchy coverage of the Tour de Hainan at
> cyclingnews.com only because I "knew" somebody there. You.

And if you hadn't said it was on cyclingnews.com I wouldn't have even
known where to look. Though I remember hearing the phrase cyclingnews
in the middle of a conversation in Chinese and trying to figure out
what it meant ... sai sai sai, that must be the sai in race... ke ke ke
the ke in thing, ling ling ling ... mountain ridge ... at about which
point I realized it was an English word.

I notice when I do a search on Hainan that the UCI calender for 1997
and 98 comes up, though no other information about it which surprises
me, cause I'd think I'd've heard something about the previous existence
of a pro race here.

I wonder if Charlie Issendorf is the photographer from the Netherlands.
There weren't any other foreign photographers that I noticed (and I
ought to have noticed), but this guy (who is doing a book on bike races
around the world) was only carrying film cameras and I can't imagine
his pictures making it onto a website that quickly.

> Maybe they'd be interested your diary.The writing certainly
> outclasses some of the drech they publish.

That'd be neat. I'll see if I can figure out who to contact.

-M

Date: 21 Nov 2006 09:12:29
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On 20 Nov 2006 22:24:35 -0800, ian wrote:
> That'd be neat. I'll see if I can figure out who to contact.

jeff@cyclingnews.com of course! Oh wait.

--
E. Dronkert

Date: 20 Nov 2006 22:12:21
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 20 Nov 2006 01:54:15 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >After loudly letting every Chinese speaker in the
> >vicinity know my opinion of women's third place prize cup in common
> >category when my time was nearly two minutes ahead of men's common I
> >suggested to him that perhaps we should go ask one of the international
> >commissaires, like maybe that guy from the Beijing Olympic Committee
> >(who I'd had lunch with the day before), his opinion about my recieving
> >only 800rmb of my 5000rmb in the prizes the posted rules said I should
> >get.
>
>
> You go girl!
>
> Glad to finally have some bike racing content in r.b.r.

They changed the original date of the race because of a typhoon. Then,
more than half of the people who signed up didn't show. And they
didn't get walk-ins. So, notwithstanding the fact that seven of the
eight competitors had signed up for 'advanced' they decided to combine
women's 'advanced' and women's 'common' into one category and call it
'common'.

Fine, so be it.

But if we start a minute _after_ the men's 33 kilometer 'common' race
and end up catching up with their peloton, passing their peloton,
catching up with their breakaway, passing their breakaway, taking men's
first and second place in on the back of our paceline, and dropping
them before the final sprint YOU DAMN WELL BETTER CHANGE THE CATEGORY
BACK TO ADVANCED.

-M

Date: 20 Nov 2006 01:54:15
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

Staff Member, Secretariat of the Race Office of the Organizing
Committee of the 2006 Tour de Hainan.

On the one hand it sounds a lot more impressive than it felt. On the
other hand, there was that time in Xinglong when I was left alone in
the office for about two hours and ended up, among other things,
answering a phone call from Xinhua News Agency and actually knowing the
answer. And there was the time I helped the Shimanos find the
Mongolian national team so they could get some spare wheels back
completely in Chinese and completely by virtue of having Secret Inside
Information.

They felt comfortable enough leaving me alone in the office such that
my hotel room was the office, even if, after Wenchang there turned out
to be no other incidences of a non-Chinese speaker calling I was
trusted to be the only person able to answer the phone in both
languages. I frequently didn't know the answer, but I frequently knew
how to find the person who did.

Some of the stories like how Black Peony got his new name, or why I
went swimming fully clothed Saturday night don't really bear retelling
in short form. Others like the 140kph ride on the back of one of the
motorcycles don't need more than a single sentence. Still others
are ones which I probably shouldn't be repeating.

Even cutting those out, there are a LOT of highlights. These are some
of the best of the best but this message is still really really REALLY
long.

-
In Stage One (Haikou - Wenchang) I was riding in the convoy in the car
of one of the Assistant Race Directors'. What with it being car #3 I
was very excited, until I found out that car numbers had nothing to do
with where they were in the convoy. Numbers dealt more with whom was
in the car. And this car was taking up the tail end, behind the sweeps
bus even. The Radio Tour's sportscast and instructions to the team
cars was off so he could talk back and forth with people in other cars.
I was bored. Really bored. Couldn't see anyone other than stragglers
who'd been injured in the big crash at the beginning and was on a
decidely uninteresting piece of expressway at hardly 30kph.

Never wish for things to be more interesting.
Sometimes you might get what you wish for.
Because shortly after the three guys from Haima Team were swept from
the race and shortly after we got off the highway one of the South
African national team stopped his bike, said to his teammate "I don't
feel so good" and collapsed.
The professional medical translator was somewhere else up near the
front. I don't even like doing medical stuff in Chinese for _myself_
but, although there was another bilingual person in the general
vicinity that person felt my Chinese was better than his English in
this instance so I found myself in the back of the ambulance.
Occasionally my Chinese completely failed me and I couldn't ask or
answer the questions the medics had, other times they were things I
simply didn't want to be involved in knowing like the color or
frequency of this morning's bowel movements.
Additionally, I'm not a particularly good passenger, even less so when
speeding and riding sideways against the motion of the vehicle.
Somewhere around the second time he vomited I started getting violently
carsick myself.

-

The morning of Stage Two I ate breakfast with the Mayor of Wenchang.
I'd actually had more than enough to eat at this point but I'd just
discovered that the flaky rolls next to the croissants were pain au
chocolat and was busily snarfing all of them when the vip table
invited me to sit with them. Chris (who tagged along for the first
three stages) knew the mayor from his days working at Hainan University
and the three of us sat over real coffee and real pastry talking in
English long past the time that the race involved vips had gone to
work.

Wenchang was also really nice because, of all the hotels we had, it was
the only one where we had Public Security Bureau guards posted at the
elevator on every floor. That and the portable satellite dish belonging
to CCTV set up in the back made the size of this whole thing feel
really Real for the first time. Before it actually started I had been
vaguely aware that it was a big thing but not really that it was that
big a thing and moreso one that I was actively involved with.

Even the ching bands and dragon dancers in the towns we passed
through, the crowds five deep and the total traffic gridlock in the
county hadn't impressed upon me how big a big thing this was in quite
the way that guards on every floor did.

-

In Stage Two (Wenchang - Xinglong) I rode on the supply bus for the
feeding zone and got to see the peloton pass. The mussette bags weren't
made for these kinds of speeds and all the ones we saw get caught broke
and spilled on the ground.

What with the drizzle and the supply bus coming behind the sweeps bus
it was mostly me and Chris and Liu Zhengdong talking to the masseur
from co Polo Cycling, the guy from Trek, and a non-starting rider
from Ningxia Team.

-

In Xinglong, in the morning, I got to meet the support for the United
Arab Emirates team because I was drooling on their spare bikes. Their
mechanic (I think, maybe masseur, anyways their English speaker who
wasn't the German coach) was unhappy with the poor quality of the
extras they'd been provided with. It was stingy of his government to
provide them with Campagnolo equipped titanium Colnagos with carbon
forks for spares. I told him that if he didn't want them he could
always give them to me, alas, he didn't agree.

One of the guys from the PLA team failed to get unclipped in time and
fell over in the parking lot because he was looking at the foreign girl
who was looking at his team's bikes.

I helped my shadow from the tv station do an interview with a
journalist who had come along with the Polygon Sweet Nice Team from
Indonesia. She'd speak Chinese. I'd speak English. The coach(?) would
speak Indonesian. He'd reply. The coach(?) would speak English. I'd
speak Chinese. Rinse. Wash. Repeat.

I also had a short talk with the only English speaker there with Moscow
Omnibike Dynamo (one of the pro-continental teams involved). My Russian
has almost completely evaporated in the nine years since I took it in
high school but one of my jobs was to make sure athletes
didn't get lost between the awards ceremony and the press conference
and with his team and the team from Kazakhstan taking a lot of prizes I
wanted to know how to say "come here".

For Stage Three (Xinglong - Sanya) I switched to the sweeps bus and
finally got a good view of the race. At least until the last King of
the Mountains classification when two guys from the UAE team got badly
dropped and all we could see was them. They came in nearly ten minutes
behind the main field and when I found the stage the jerseys had
already been awarded and the press conference was already under way.

In Sanya I was interviewed by the Hainan Daily. The sports page the
next day had a sidebar article that was just about me.

I also got into a shouting argument in the lobby of the hotel with the
head of the Sanya Cycling Assosciation regarding the previous weekend's
amateur race. After loudly letting every Chinese speaker in the
vicinity know my opinion of women's third place prize cup in common
category when my time was nearly two minutes ahead of men's common I
suggested to him that perhaps we should go ask one of the international
commissaires, like maybe that guy from the Beijing Olympic Committee
(who I'd had lunch with the day before), his opinion about my recieving
only 800rmb of my 5000rmb in the prizes the posted rules said I should
get. For some inexplicable reason, the fellow from Sanya fled before
he could even be introduced.

I helped HNTV1 (my usual shadow being HNTV4) do an interview with the
South Africans on what they eat and got a cameo shot of myself sitting
on the floor of their hotel room.

Someone came up with the idea that the bikes should be stored outside
with military guards. The only team that actually went along with this
idea, however briefly, was the Chinese national team. I'd just met up
with a friend from Sanya and was walking back to the hotel when we got
to see the guards having an absolute fit as Unknown People first
crossed The Line, ignored their attempts to keep them from moving
forward, and then started -touching- The Bikes. I think the entire
street overheard Li Fuyu explaining at the soldiers that it might rain
so the bikes had to be removed indoors. The bikes were covered
with plastic and the skies were completely clear.

I went drinking with the masseur and the mechanic from Australia FRF
Couriers Excelpro (another pro-continental team).

-

Stage Four (Sanya - Wuzhishan) started off with a 44 kilometer
criterium so I got to really see (and feel the wind of) the peloton
going by. I spent most of my time playing sportscaster for whoever I
was with at the time, since, although they were almost always other
bike friends, I'd been with the tour for a couple of days by this point
and actually knew which teams were which and who the riders were.
Actually had eaten meals with a number of the riders.

Got a major thrill out of deliberately walking on the wrong side of The
Line because I had a staff badge and I could.

Got involved in my own argument with the military which escalated to
one of them pulling my friend the sports photographer out of his gutter
crouch by the strap of his camera and escalated again to them calling
for one of the shals to come deal with us. The shal came, asked
what was wrong, snapped at the soldier who made the mistake of thinking
he
was the one being asked, and left. They didn't really bother us after
that.

Onto the bus. The UAE straggler from the day before eventually fell so
far behind we had to sweep him. Watching him had been so fascinating I
had fallen asleep. Got to use my magic English speaking abilities to
ask nicely if he wanted to get on the bus, and to eventually order him
on the bus when he wouldn't listen to the shal (he pulled his number
off himself but he wouldn't stop riding and they wanted him on the bus
so they could open the road).

Later on when the version of events he told his coach didn't agree with
his being swept (he was just inside the 20km line but he was going
barely 15kph and they'd spent the last half hour making sure they had
permission to pick him up) the coach went for me instead of the team
translator to talk to the shal in question and I got to answer
important questions without having to try for simultaneous translation
of seriously difficult concepts.

There were two random cyclists watching the race who weren't people I
knew! The driver briefly thought that they were part of the race and
had started to pull over to pick them up when he noticed that a) they
weren't injured b) one of them wasn't wearing the same colors as anyone
else in the field and c) they didn't have numbers.

I drank a rice wine toast with the vice-governor of Hainan at the
awards ceremony in Wuzhisan. And while I was babysitting the athletes
(who really didn't need watching, they'd gotten the don't wander away
meme by this point) had some kids ask for my signature.

Post lunch, while sitting with the Shimanos and some of Team China
heard from Li himself that he'll be leaving his current pro-continental
team (co Polo Cycling) in January to move up to Discovery Channel.

I saw bits and pieces of the bits and pieces of the crash involving one
of the Russians and his broken collarbone on tv.

I was woken up at 2:19 am by a phone call asking if I was aware that
the guard had noticed that my window was open and did I want it open at
night? Was I aware that it was unsafe? (As if that would normally be a
worry in the middle of nowhere Wuzhishan, it's less of an issue at a
resort hotel with security guards, and still less of an issue when the
perimeter also has guards from the PSB.)

-

Stage Five (Wuzhishan - Danzhou) started with a King of the Mountains
rated at level one. I have no idea what that means in terms of
difficulty compared to mountains in really big races, but I do know
that Ertouling is 9.6 kilometers of the hardest bastard of a mountain
on the island.

The PLA rider who was swept had crashed that morning and had an excuse
for flagging the bus. The rider from Qinghai Team had crashed so badly
the previous day that he was pulled well before the time limit due to
the ambulance noticing his wounds were bleeding again. The rider from
Ningxia Team had no excuse at all for taking 46 minutes to do
Ertouling. Haikou's best rider (who is in his late 30s) has done it in
33 minutes. The main field did it in something crazy like 25 minutes.

The UAE rider from the day before was back on our bus. When we caught
up to him he was waiting by the side of the road with one of the team
cars, having clearly spent the last unknown period of time being chewed
out. He left two hours ahead of the race so he could train without
permission of the coach.

The guy from Ningxia Team and another UAE rider were swept and bikes
had to start going on the equipment truck. We also had the photographer
from Holland, and Laobanniang from the Haikou bike shop on the bus with
us. We didn't have one of the two shals originally assigned to the
bus as he was now on a motorcycle following an incident where a rider
from Haima had been drafting for a number of kilometers and hadn't been
prevented from doing it.

After consistently being no more than ten or fifteen seconds off of
first place in the General Individual Classification Li Fuyu lost over
eleven and a half minutes. My friends who got to watch bits on tv say
it is because his downhill speed wasn't good enough to get him into
the breakaway. The mechanic for co Polo Cycling said it was because
he was riding with Team China instead of his usual team. However,
although I'm not particularly good at reading results, I notice that
the only person from co Polo in the breakaway was the rider who is
going up to Rabobank (Thomas something-or-the-other).

Danzhou was nice. In terms of population I think Danzhou may be bigger
than Sanya so the crowds weren't merely big. They were huge. Lots of
kids running up to me to shake my hand.

Failing to find the person with food coupons and a knowledge of where I
was eating I walked to the western resteraunt for lunch. It was -very-
good but I was very tired of western and grateful to discover that my
dinner assignment was actually with the Chinese vips instead
of the foreign vips.

Jacky Lin from the provincial foreign affairs bureau came in around
10pm and stayed past 1am using the computer in my hotel room and
getting my help polishing the last vestiges of Chinglish out of the
speeches for the final awards ceremony.

-

Too much of Stage Six (Danzhou - Haikou) was ridden on the expressway.
On the other hand, with five days of tv and newspaper coverage as well
as the full support of the government, people knew we were coming and
every single offramp had a large percentage of the population of every
nearby town out to watch the bikes pass.

The originally posted route back in September called for them to be
riding on the 225 national road. Having personally ridden the 225 more
than once the only way I can imagine this being done was if they were
going to repave it. I don't like going over 20kph on my relatively wide
tires on the 225. I can't imagine going their average 47kph on low
spoke wheels on the 225. Since there were a few places where I saw
fresh roadwork including asphalt covering the old railway tracks in
Sanya it is entirely possible they were planning to repave it and
didn't have the time.

It was raining coming into Haikou but the crowds were still appreciably
large for it being the western beach area in the drizzle. One of my
friends has acquired the first recumbent on Hainan island and I got to
ride that. I went around trying to bum Tour de Hainan water bottles
from teams and passed one of those and two Moscow bottles to friends.

My favorite bit was when one of the guys from Team Japan picked up a
bike and started to walk away with it. He'd been dropped from the rider
list on the first day and wasn't dressed the part. Since I'd been
talking to him before he walked away the cops asked me if it was
my bike. "No, that belongs to the Japanese national team. My bike is
over there." It wasn't deliberate cruelty on my part but I gave them a
split second to work up to full panic that Someone was Taking one of
the Bikes before telling them that he was a member of the Japanese
national team.

Unlike some of the riders (such as the one from UAE who was absolutely
flabbergasted that I use my bike as a method of transport and have gone
long distances without a team car following me) this particular rider
was first someone who liked cycling and then someone who was good
enough to be a member of his national team. He was letting people try
out his bike. Letting grubby handed strangers touch it and sit on it
and even try to ride it. Even let me take it over to the street and
ride it on proper pavement and told me I could go fast on it if I
wanted to.

I didn't want to.

I was scared by the hint of the merest possibility of breaking anything
on a Dura Ace equipped custom built carbon which he thinks cost maybe
$25,000 but isn't real sure since it was bought for him by his sponsor.
(I'm also not real sure since his English wasn't the best in the
world, but if you drop a 0 from 300,000 yen you only get $2500 and I
don't think this was that cheap.)

I took it up to perhaps 10kph and it was like flying on a frictionless
perpetual motion machine. The wheels just went round and round and
round forever. I only had to think of squeezing and the brakes stopped.
When the mechanic has been screwing around with my bike recently the
shifting feels responsive and crisp but that kind of crispness was a
soggy potato chip compared to this. I've been on friends' race bikes
before and if you could say that they had music in them then this one
had entire symphonies going on.

It was a very nice bike. I liked it.

The full-on awards ceremony with dinner and performances was held at
the New State Guesthouse which is one of those hotels that doesn't have
prices listed. One of those hotels which, quite possibly, might not
take people who walk in. We aren't talking mere five stars like the
Sheraton down the road, we're talking swank beyond swank. And I thought
the Noble Yacht Club (hotel #2) where I had the right to get a room
(but hadn't) was nice.

The person responsible for making sure that the extra prize jerseys
were safe helped me stea...errr...acquire a blue Best Asian Rider
Classification jersey which I got Li Fuyu to sign. He only took Best
Asian once during the tour but he's moving up to the big leagues and
even if the Japanese team turned out to be made up of lots of really
nice English speakers who gave me a water bottle that they all signed
they don't represent the country I live in.

All the other spare Tour of Hainan 2006 jerseys are going to go on
display. They were signed and have been handed out to various people of
importance. The bike shop was pleased to show me that they've got an
orange stage winner jersey and a polka dot king of the mountain jersey.
Not for sale of course.

But I've got a blue jersey and my jersey was signed by Li Fuyu and I'm
going to wear it (have worn it). Notwithstanding the general
twistedness of me wearing a Best Asian Classification jersey (which is
reason enough) it was signed by Li Fuyu and I've got a bad case of
sports star over him. One which the entire country is going to join me
in if he does as predicted and eventually becomes the first Chinese
rider in Le Tour de France.

I also helped the English speaker from Russia get in contact with the
bike shop manager over ordering 2000 custom water bottles for Moscow
Omnibike Dynamo. Their translator was frustrated that she'd spent the
last hour making phone calls trying to find the right person to call
and my first phone call was to the right person. I can only partially
claim responsibility for getting them together since the translator had
been about to call him (for phone call number seven) when I showed up.

-

And if all those highlights weren't enough, the motorcycle corps has
told me if I want to I can come riding on the back of their 1300cc rice
rockets anytime I want, some guy from the foreign affairs bureau tells
me that there are international events in Hainan every month that could
be helped by having a native English speaker as a translator in the
office, and I've got more important people's contact information than I
know what to do with.

-M

Date: 22 Nov 2006 19:59:50
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

In article <1164252284.616541.234000@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > writes:
>
> Where is Fabrizio?

Possibly up in the Basque Alps, or Cuba, or Tuscany.

> Did he get old, fat, slow and bearded, and switch to
> riding a recumbent?

Bearded?! He has nothing to hide with whiskers.
He's so good-lookin', the guys on his team call him "Face".

As for fat -- maybe he should lay off the pasta a little,
but at least his gut doesn't sway like the belly of a
pregnant holstein while his knees hit it when he's riding.

And as for age -- well, time only moves in one direction.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Date: 22 Nov 2006 20:18:10
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:59:50 -0800, tkeats2005@hotmail.com (Tom
Keats) wrote:

>Bearded?! He has nothing to hide with whiskers.
>He's so good-lookin', the guys on his team call him "Face".

uhhh, I wouldn't be so sure that's the origin of the nickname.
I think it has more to do with his wearing knee warmers all year.
--
zk

Date: 22 Nov 2006 19:24:44
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

Zoot Katz wrote:
> ...
> Zoot, myself and I have nothing to add that Fabrizio and himself
> hasn't already covered.

Where is Fabrizio? Did he get old, fat, slow and bearded, and switch to
riding a recumbent?

--
Tom Sherman - Post Free or Die!

Date: 22 Nov 2006 19:37:25
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On 22 Nov 2006 19:24:44 -0800, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
<sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>Zoot Katz wrote:
>> ...
>> Zoot, myself and I have nothing to add that Fabrizio and himself
>> hasn't already covered.
>
>Where is Fabrizio? Did he get old, fat, slow and bearded, and switch to
>riding a recumbent?

I guess three outta four qualifies as a "hit".
This is his off season so I doubt he's riding anything.
--
zk

Date: 20 Nov 2006 17:11:44
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On 20 Nov 2006 01:54:15 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com >
wrote:

>Staff Member, Secretariat of the Race Office of the Organizing
>Committee of the 2006 Tour de Hainan.
>
>On the one hand it sounds a lot more impressive than it felt.
\
Thank you for your entertaining account.

I was following the sketchy coverage of the Tour de Hainan at
cyclingnews.com only because I "knew" somebody there. You.

Maybe they'd be interested your diary.The writing certainly
outclasses some of the drech they publish.
--
zk

Date: 20 Nov 2006 19:20:33
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

In article
<1164016455.065289.200610@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >
,
"ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:

> I also had a short talk with the only English speaker there with Moscow
> Omnibike Dynamo (one of the pro-continental teams involved). My Russian
> has almost completely evaporated in the nine years since I took it in
> high school but one of my jobs was to make sure athletes
> didn't get lost between the awards ceremony and the press conference
> and with his team and the team from Kazakhstan taking a lot of prizes I
> wanted to know how to say "come here".

I know that one. Yo!

velous account of your race. Thanks.

--
Michael Press

Date: 20 Nov 2006 06:40:13
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion (Highlights)

On 20 Nov 2006 01:54:15 -0800, "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com >
wrote:

>After loudly letting every Chinese speaker in the
>vicinity know my opinion of women's third place prize cup in common
>category when my time was nearly two minutes ahead of men's common I
>suggested to him that perhaps we should go ask one of the international
>commissaires, like maybe that guy from the Beijing Olympic Committee
>(who I'd had lunch with the day before), his opinion about my recieving
>only 800rmb of my 5000rmb in the prizes the posted rules said I should
>get.

You go girl!

Glad to finally have some bike racing content in r.b.r.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 20 Nov 2006 00:51:55
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

"rleone@hotmail.com =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA
"
> OOPS, I apologize for going off topic.
>
> ian -- any nice dramatically hilly parts on this race, with
> swooping, twisty downhills and a level spot along the side for the race
> fan photographers of Hainan?

I'd say anything on Ertouling or really anywhere between Wuzhishan and
Tunchang is highly photographable. In Stage 5 the race turned at
Qiongzhou and headed for Danzhou onto a lightly hilly bit that I didn't
previously know that would make nice bucolic China with racers photos.

It was really a shame that the helicopter photo coverage was just
Haikou and Sanya though, despite hearing it was happening, I can't
really say I _expected_ the helicopters to follow the race into the
mountains and wasn't particularly surprised when they didn't.

Judging by the severity of the crashes in Stage 4 (one rider from
Moscow had a broken collarbone, and a guy from Ningxia Team had some
fabulous road rash and a Shimano supplied spare bike the next day) I'm
thinking the mountains coming into Wuzhishan from the south must've
also had some good fast swooping twisties. However, I have not only
not personally ridden or driven that section of road, I was also riding
in the sweeps bus behind an agonizingly slow rider from the United Arab
Emirates and spent most of Stage 4 asleep.

Jianfengling would make some pretty dramatic photography but I can't
think of any way they could crowbar it into a stage race what with
there being a paved road up and in to the park but no road going out
again.

-M

Date: 20 Nov 2006 15:44:47
From: nash
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

"ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1164012715.807512.319020@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

"rleone@hotmail.com д��
"
> OOPS, I apologize for going off topic.
>
> ian -- any nice dramatically hilly parts on this race, with
> swooping, twisty downhills and a level spot along the side for the race
> fan photographers of Hainan?

I'd say anything on Ertouling or really anywhere between Wuzhishan and
Tunchang is highly photographable. In Stage 5 the race turned at
Qiongzhou and headed for Danzhou onto a lightly hilly bit that I didn't
previously know that would make nice bucolic China with racers photos.

It was really a shame that the helicopter photo coverage was just
Haikou and Sanya though, despite hearing it was happening, I can't
really say I _expected_ the helicopters to follow the race into the
mountains and wasn't particularly surprised when they didn't.

Judging by the severity of the crashes in Stage 4 (one rider from
Moscow had a broken collarbone, and a guy from Ningxia Team had some
fabulous road rash and a Shimano supplied spare bike the next day) I'm
thinking the mountains coming into Wuzhishan from the south must've
also had some good fast swooping twisties. However, I have not only
not personally ridden or driven that section of road, I was also riding
in the sweeps bus behind an agonizingly slow rider from the United Arab
Emirates and spent most of Stage 4 asleep.

Jianfengling would make some pretty dramatic photography but I can't
think of any way they could crowbar it into a stage race what with
there being a paved road up and in to the park but no road going out
again.

-M

Are there any photos to be publicized online?

Date: 19 Nov 2006 08:55:18
From:
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

OOPS, I apologize for going off topic.

ian -- any nice dramatically hilly parts on this race, with
swooping, twisty downhills and a level spot along the side for the race
fan photographers of Hainan?

Robert Leone
rleone@hotmail.com wrote:
> ian wrote:
> SNIP
> >
> > Yeah, and I'm sure it had a very good very aboveboard reason to be
> > flying there too. :)
> >
> > -M
>
> Those Signals Intelligence folk have raised listening in on the
> neighbors before, during and after a big party to an art form. The
> infamous antenna-laden "Soviet Trawlers" that used to always appear in
> the Atlantic missle test range during missle tests are further
> examples. They just LOVE to listen -- from the oldest, slowest, most
> obvious platform possible.
>
> rleone@hotmail.com

Date: 19 Nov 2006 08:45:29
From:
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

ian wrote:
SNIP
>
> Yeah, and I'm sure it had a very good very aboveboard reason to be
> flying there too. :)
>
> -M

Those Signals Intelligence folk have raised listening in on the
neighbors before, during and after a big party to an art form. The
infamous antenna-laden "Soviet Trawlers" that used to always appear in
the Atlantic missle test range during missle tests are further
examples. They just LOVE to listen -- from the oldest, slowest, most
obvious platform possible.

rleone@hotmail.com

Date: 19 Nov 2006 04:16:29
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

"rleone@hotmail.com =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA
"
> photoshoppper@gmail.com wrote:
> > While you are over there, see what you can do about getting them to
> > hand-over our damaged US Navy spy plane from a few years back. The one
> > that survived the collision with the hot-shot (now dead) Chinese pilot.
> >

That happened long before I came here, and it was handed back long
ago...

> I believe the People's Liberation Army sent it back, dissassembled.
> Probably for the best -- I wouldn't want to fly in a just-crashed
> airplaine if I could avoid it, espeically without access to
> factory-trained airframe and powerplant mechanics. And it wasn't a "spy
> plane," it was a "Signals Intelligence" plane. SIGINT people are very
> insistant on that distinction.

Yeah, and I'm sure it had a very good very aboveboard reason to be
flying there too. :)

-M

Date: 15 Nov 2006 16:12:19
From:
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

photoshoppper@gmail.com wrote:
> While you are over there, see what you can do about getting them to
> hand-over our damaged US Navy spy plane from a few years back. The one
> that survived the collision with the hot-shot (now dead) Chinese pilot.
>
> ian wrote:
I believe the People's Liberation Army sent it back, dissassembled.
Probably for the best -- I wouldn't want to fly in a just-crashed
airplaine if I could avoid it, espeically without access to
factory-trained airframe and powerplant mechanics. And it wasn't a "spy
plane," it was a "Signals Intelligence" plane. SIGINT people are very
insistant on that distinction.

rleone@hotmail.com

Date: 14 Nov 2006 16:34:33
From:
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

While you are over there, see what you can do about getting them to
hand-over our damaged US Navy spy plane from a few years back. The one
that survived the collision with the hot-shot (now dead) Chinese pilot.

ian wrote:
> But my work here is not done yet.
>
> In fact, my work here hasn't officially started yet.
>
> What with a lunch meeting with a tv reporter, followed by getting
> dragged along to a press conference, followed by two hours of prep for
> the twenty minute interview on Sunday with me and another one of the
> famous local bikers (well, famous among the local bikers anyways),
> followed by a meeting at the race office, followed by dinner with
> (among others) my direct boss, the bike shop manager, coach, the local
> head photography guy, and yet another important person whose name and
> rank I'm probably supposed to remember ... he's probably from the
> Chinese Cycling Assosciation. I think it's safe to say that maybe,
> just maybe, I've already started.
>
> Welcome to the first Tour of Hainan Island. Let's hope it will be
> successful. Let's hope it comes back next year. Let's hope it looks
> good on my resume. They're pulling out enough stops that the two
> mountain stages will actually have helicopters for the photo coverage.
> Considering that Hainan's third major industry (after tourism and
> farming) is secret Chinese military bases and that (at least according
> to my friends who work at the airport) most of the island is a no-fly
> zone it was pretty impressive to hear them discussing helicopter photo
> coverage.
>
> I officially start work on Friday, or maybe that's Thursday, but if
> it's Wednesday (today being Tuesday) we'll call you in the morning.
> The racers have to be here by Friday night and opening ceremonies are
> Sunday morning. Best I can tell, I'm an emergency translator who will
> also be doing some office type stuff maybe if I'm not doing something
> more important.
>
> With the exception of myself there are very very _very_ few people who
> speak Chinese, English, AND bike and all of them are Really Important.
> I'm just a local biker who is studying Chinese at the university.
>
> I found myself somewhat worried at the translator's training class
> after the comissaire left and the girl sitting next to me quietly asked
> "where are we working? Haikou or Sanya?" She managed to sit through
> an hour plus presentation in her native language on exactly what a
> multi-day stage race is, including trivia like feed zones, king of the
> mountain, translators with team assignments being partisan support, why
> you should use very simple English with the Mongolian National Team,
> and an obliquely worded warning about drinking with anyone from the
> team from Moscow, but she still failed to grasp that translators
> working for the 2006 International Round Hainan Island Cycling Race
> would be _going around the island_ WITH the racers!
>
> And as if my schedule weren't already busy enough there was an amateur
> race down in Sanya last weekend. Which is cool. Racing is fun. The
> uncool bits were that that race was supposed to happen during the
> October Holiday (typhoon), that half of the people who signed up didn't
> show, that they changed the categories around, didn't give out even
> half the amount of the prize money they posted, and my bikes (read:
> main form of transportation) are still in the bike shop waiting for me
> to pick them up. Oh yeah, and I'm now officially the best female racer
> in the province so I've got a bazillion friends who want to take me out
> for celebrating while I'm in the Middle Of Things.
>
> What was that about finding a place for my kitten to stay while I'm out
> of town?
> What was that about me having a kitten in the first place?
> Or the generally acceptable grad student who has been trying to take me
> out on a date?
>
> It begins on Sunday.
>
> I hope I'm ready for it.
>
> I hope they're ready for it.
>
> -M

Date: 14 Nov 2006 08:59:15
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <1163161127.110834.100140@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> "ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > In article <4rd5bhFqo6ouU1@mid.individual.net>,
> > > "Robert Chung" <me@address.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > > ian wrote:
> > > > > Welcome to the first Tour of Hainan Island.
> > > >
> > > > Very cool. Good luck.
> > >
> > > Well, yes, good luck and all, but this is cross-posted rbr. Could you
> > > please mention Lance Armstrong, chart your data, or reference doping?
> > > Without one or more of those details, we really can't figure out what to
> > > do with this sort of information.
> >
> > Lance Armstrong will not be here.

However, I've heard that Li Fuyu from co Polo Cycling (although he
is representing Team China in this) has signed with Discovery Channel
for next season. And there is someone else (though bugger all if I can
remember which team or what his name is or even which country he's
from) who is signed to start with Rabobank. I mostly remember Li
because my shadow is gone star struck about him to the point that it's
become a running joke with everyone trying to find ways to make her
turn red in front of him.

> > Amount of time it took to type the vehicle list in proportion to amount
> > of time it took to decipher the commissaire's handwriting (with the
> > commissaire's help) - 3 to 1.
> >
> > The translator for doping control is a chemistry professor at my
> > university.
> >
> > Acceptable?
> > -M
>
> Thanks. I'll buy you a drink the next time you're in town :).

And where would "in town" be?

-M

Date: 10 Nov 2006 04:18:47
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <4rd5bhFqo6ouU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Robert Chung" <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>
> > ian wrote:
> > > Welcome to the first Tour of Hainan Island.
> >
> > Very cool. Good luck.
>
> Well, yes, good luck and all, but this is cross-posted rbr. Could you
> please mention Lance Armstrong, chart your data, or reference doping?
> Without one or more of those details, we really can't figure out what to
> do with this sort of information.

Lance Armstrong will not be here.

Amount of time it took to type the vehicle list in proportion to amount
of time it took to decipher the commissaire's handwriting (with the
commissaire's help) - 3 to 1.

The translator for doping control is a chemistry professor at my
university.

Acceptable?
-M

Date: 13 Nov 2006 05:36:53
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

In article <1163161127.110834.100140@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com >,
"ian" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > In article <4rd5bhFqo6ouU1@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Robert Chung" <me@address.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > ian wrote:
> > > > Welcome to the first Tour of Hainan Island.
> > >
> > > Very cool. Good luck.
> >
> > Well, yes, good luck and all, but this is cross-posted rbr. Could you
> > please mention Lance Armstrong, chart your data, or reference doping?
> > Without one or more of those details, we really can't figure out what to
> > do with this sort of information.
>
> Lance Armstrong will not be here.
>
> Amount of time it took to type the vehicle list in proportion to amount
> of time it took to decipher the commissaire's handwriting (with the
> commissaire's help) - 3 to 1.
>
> The translator for doping control is a chemistry professor at my
> university.
>
> Acceptable?
> -M

Thanks. I'll buy you a drink the next time you're in town :).

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Date: 10 Nov 2006 16:04:25
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

ian wrote:
> The translator for doping control is a chemistry professor at my
> university.

He must have been on vacation in July.

Date: 08 Nov 2006 07:15:42
From: me
Subject: Re: Why are expensive bikes better than cheap ones?

On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 04:31:20 -0800, Ken Aston wrote:

> Recently, I have been using my bike more and more and by now I almost
> stopped using any other way of transportation. It's a lot of fun and it
> made me think about buying a really nice bike. Right now I am just using a
> cheap discount bike which is quite heavy.
>

Many good comments on this thread, here's my 0.02 cents.

Components, yes good parts last longer, for example good brakes stop
better and are easier to keep adjusted. A dragging brake will slow
you down much more than a few pounds. A better shiter set will be
easier to use and not go out of adjustment so easily and correct
shifting can help keep your speed up and a faster cadence ( rpms )
will be easier on you knees. Better bottom bracket will last longer
between adjustments and run smoother and faster, ditto wheel bearings.
Semi-slick tires on mountain bike if appropriate for your riding
conditions will make a MAJOR difference in effort/speed. I cant use
them myself year round because of ice and snow, but when I can I do.
Depending on exactly what you bought you mike consider the cost of
upgrading your current bike, though a high end bike can be a joy
to ride, see how many test rides you can get out of your local store.

Date: 07 Nov 2006 20:39:13
From: Robert Chung
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

ian wrote:
> Welcome to the first Tour of Hainan Island.

Very cool. Good luck.

Date: 08 Nov 2006 10:54:42
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Mass Chaos and Confusion

In article <4rd5bhFqo6ouU1@mid.individual.net >,
"Robert Chung" <me@address.invalid > wrote:

> ian wrote:
> > Welcome to the first Tour of Hainan Island.
>
> Very cool. Good luck.

Well, yes, good luck and all, but this is cross-posted rbr. Could you
please mention Lance Armstrong, chart your data, or reference doping?
Without one or more of those details, we really can't figure out what to
do with this sort of information.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos