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Main
Date: 09 Sep 2006 11:11:03
From:
Subject: Motorists and lycra?
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Hi All,
I am recovering from illness and I am basically taking it easy at home
doing nothing. A few days ago I headed out for my first ride. It was to
be a super low-effort short ride, so I just wore regular clothes. It
went well, and I did the same for a few days to get back into the swing
of things. Yesterday I decide to go for a longer ride, so I suited up
in my full lycra gear and headed out for a 1 hour ride. It was great to
be back on the road, and there were no incidents to speak of, but I get
the distinct feeling that motorists gave me more room when I had
regular clothes on!
Has anyone ever noticed this? Do motorsists have less patience with
racer wannabes than with average joes?
Joseph
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Date: 13 Sep 2006 05:16:57
From: swiftcycler
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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I'm starting to see this thread as rather odd. Living in
Boston/Cambridge, all cyclists are fair game. You're much better off
as a J-walking pedestrian in that everyone does it. My best defense
against accident on the roads in Ma. has been the fact that I don't
wear a helmet. Maybe they think that anyone without a helmet is crazy
and vulnerable. These days on Cape Cod, I'll sometime where a racing
cap, but I think having my grey hair exposed makes it quite clear that
I'm a survivor.
frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> Cathy Kearns wrote:
> > I've found the most impatient drivers are those on their
> > way to church Sunday mornings. (And those that ride Arasterdero/Portola in
> > the SF Bay Area Sunday mornings know exactly what I'm saying.) When I've
> > met these church goers as parties they even say how annoying all these
> > recreational cyclist are to be in their way on a rural road while they are
> > trying to speed off to church.
>
> Perhaps driving is intended to serve some metaphysical purpose.
> Perhaps it's intended to be a discipline in patience and kindness,
> helping our souls to grow.
>
> If so, many people seem to be failing at the exercise.
>
> I've long thought that the Golden Rule as applied to driving would make
> a good sermon - one in need of frequent repetition. And that it should
> include special mention of the "poor and downtrodden" who don't happen
> to be driving Hummers.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 08:02:43
From:
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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Cathy Kearns wrote:
> I've found the most impatient drivers are those on their
> way to church Sunday mornings. (And those that ride Arasterdero/Portola in
> the SF Bay Area Sunday mornings know exactly what I'm saying.) When I've
> met these church goers as parties they even say how annoying all these
> recreational cyclist are to be in their way on a rural road while they are
> trying to speed off to church.
Perhaps driving is intended to serve some metaphysical purpose.
Perhaps it's intended to be a discipline in patience and kindness,
helping our souls to grow.
If so, many people seem to be failing at the exercise.
I've long thought that the Golden Rule as applied to driving would make
a good sermon - one in need of frequent repetition. And that it should
include special mention of the "poor and downtrodden" who don't happen
to be driving Hummers.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 14:49:57
From: Cathy Kearns
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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<joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1157825463.865200.219050@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Has anyone ever noticed this? Do motorsists have less patience with
> racer wannabes than with average joes?
>
It may have to do with intent. A racer wannabe is obviously out there for
recreation/excercise, while a commuter looks like they are using the bike as
transportation. So, some might find being slowed by folks out for their
pleasure is more annoying than being slowed by folks who are out going to
work or running errands and have to get somewhere just like the driver does.
Or, in other word, they see the "average joes" as commuters just like
themselves. Though I've found the most impatient drivers are those on their
way to church Sunday mornings. (And those that ride Arasterdero/Portola in
the SF Bay Area Sunday mornings know exactly what I'm saying.) When I've
met these church goers as parties they even say how annoying all these
recreational cyclist are to be in their way on a rural road while they are
trying to speed off to church. My response is that for many of us on the
road Sunday mornings, riding with nature is our way of connecting with God.
That seems to give them a new perspective, and I've heard makes them more
patient. I didn't mention that most on my ride are Jewish, and went to
temple on Saturday.:-)
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 04:14:42
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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On 9 Sep 2006 11:11:03 -0700, joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I am recovering from illness and I am basically taking it easy at home
>doing nothing. A few days ago I headed out for my first ride. It was to
>be a super low-effort short ride, so I just wore regular clothes. It
>went well, and I did the same for a few days to get back into the swing
>of things. Yesterday I decide to go for a longer ride, so I suited up
>in my full lycra gear and headed out for a 1 hour ride. It was great to
>be back on the road, and there were no incidents to speak of, but I get
>the distinct feeling that motorists gave me more room when I had
>regular clothes on!
>
>Has anyone ever noticed this? Do motorsists have less patience with
>racer wannabes than with average joes?
I have noticed the same thing to a limited extent, but I have
attributed it to drivers mistakenly assuming that a racy-looking rider
can be safely encroached upon because he's not going to do anything
sudden, stupid or illegal, and such a riader is also presumed more
competent, more maneuverable, and less likely to have a spill as the
vehicle passes. The punter in jeans and a t-shirt, OTOH, may be a
local inebriant on the way to or from a lubrication session, and can't
be relied upon to even adhere to the rules of the road.
That's just the impression I get.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 14:35:34
From:
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm
>
> Also, a blonde wig will get you an additional 6 inches of clearance.
>
Maybe he was a male wearing an obvious wig. I can see motorists giving
such an individual more clearance.
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 12:15:03
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever noticed this? Do motorsists have less patience with
> racer wannabes than with average joes?
The BBC has a news article that covers this topic. Evidently the way
you dress definitely affects how much passing room you get.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm
Also, a blonde wig will get you an additional 6 inches of clearance.
Pardon me while I get my coat and head off to the wig shop.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
A citizen of America will cross the ocean to fight for democracy, but
won't cross the street to vote in a national election.
-- Bill Vaughan
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 23:18:36
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:15:03 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu >
wrote:
>Also, a blonde wig will get you an additional 6 inches of clearance.
>
>Pardon me while I get my coat and head off to the wig shop.
I've worn a blonde pigtail sticking out from under the helmet. (lots
of aero drag) I guess the helmet cancels out the wig effect because I
didn't notice any difference except weird looks and no comments from
passing cyclists.
I rarely ride without a helmet and thought it was my imagination that
drivers were giving me more room on those occasions I ride with just
the cotton skull cap. hmmmmm
I've already got two wigs. I wonder how they work in the rain.
--
zk
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 01:35:19
From: Alex Colvin
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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>Also, a blonde wig will get you an additional 6 inches of clearance.
>Pardon me while I get my coat and head off to the wig shop.
You can leave your coat. They only need the head...
--
mac the naïf
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 04:15:21
From: swiftcycler
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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Somehow my previous post was cut off. Actually, I think it depends on
how you look in your tights and who is doing the looking. Sex would be
a big factor. If you are being chased by someone of the opposite sex
on another bicycle, you might attract more attention. I was walking in
the city once and an extremely attractive gal in lycra was hit by some
guy behind me at an intersection. She started screaming bloody murder.
The guy froze in his car. She was on the street at a minor
intersection. I approached her, not knowing what to do. She started
to rise. I told her, No, something might be broken. Someone used a
cell phone and an ambulance arrived. I think back and wonder happened
to the guy.
Gooserider wrote:
> <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1157825463.865200.219050@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I am recovering from illness and I am basically taking it easy at home
> > doing nothing. A few days ago I headed out for my first ride. It was to
> > be a super low-effort short ride, so I just wore regular clothes. It
> > went well, and I did the same for a few days to get back into the swing
> > of things. Yesterday I decide to go for a longer ride, so I suited up
> > in my full lycra gear and headed out for a 1 hour ride. It was great to
> > be back on the road, and there were no incidents to speak of, but I get
> > the distinct feeling that motorists gave me more room when I had
> > regular clothes on!
> >
> > Has anyone ever noticed this? Do motorsists have less patience with
> > racer wannabes than with average joes?
> >
> > Joseph
>
> You're missing the obvious. People pass you too closely when you are in your
> full kit because they are paying more attention to you. It's the same reason
> police get get run over when they've pulled someone over. The car tends to
> go where the eyes do.
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 08:11:08
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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On 9 Sep 2006 11:11:03 -0700, joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> Has anyone ever noticed this? Do motorsists have less patience with
> racer wannabes than with average joes?
No, it's not that. They're just coming closing to check out your arse.
--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 12:49:16
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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<joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1157825463.865200.219050@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I am recovering from illness and I am basically taking it easy at home
> doing nothing. A few days ago I headed out for my first ride. It was to
> be a super low-effort short ride, so I just wore regular clothes. It
> went well, and I did the same for a few days to get back into the swing
> of things. Yesterday I decide to go for a longer ride, so I suited up
> in my full lycra gear and headed out for a 1 hour ride. It was great to
> be back on the road, and there were no incidents to speak of, but I get
> the distinct feeling that motorists gave me more room when I had
> regular clothes on!
>
> Has anyone ever noticed this? Do motorsists have less patience with
> racer wannabes than with average joes?
>
> Joseph
You're missing the obvious. People pass you too closely when you are in your
full kit because they are paying more attention to you. It's the same reason
police get get run over when they've pulled someone over. The car tends to
go where the eyes do.
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 05:25:41
From: swiftcycler
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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Well, I was thinking this thread might be one about catcalls from
spectators regarding how you look in tights. Actually, I live in a
>>mixed<< neighborhood in a resort area. Once in a while I receive a catcall about my >>spandex<< or something else. The last incident it was some ignorant kid in a group of them. I wonder if this would be be due to the beer belly I'm carrying these days. I used to cycle in lycra when younger, more fit and in training, but only got the catcalls when running in the winter in tights. Otherwise, I do find being in an area where there are a number of cyclists on the road for recreation, I'm given more distance than when I was cycling the suburbs.
catzz66 wrote:
> I regularly ride through a nice old upscale neighborhood and it is not
> unusual to see seniors riding in street clothes. The typical ride is
> either an older cruiser looking bike or a knobby tired mountain bike.
> At least around here, they seem to ride pretty predictably, be alert to
> the vehicular traffic and stay on the pavement. Some of them do ignore
> modern conventions and consistently ride against traffic. Almost none
> wear skid lids. Younger mountain bike and hybrid riders tend to be a
> mixed lot, but generally wear street clothes. No long pants like the
> seniors generally wear. Some wear helmets but many don't. Road bike
> riders tend to mostly wear cycle clothing and almost all wear helmets.
> Theh roadies tend to be less predictible about stopping at signals and
> stop signs, but otherwise do not do many things that are unexpected. At
> least in this neighborhood, most motorists seem to interact well with
> all of them, probably because there are so many of them that they have
> gotten used to them. In my experience, the most careless and unaware of
> cyclists are those driving the big SUVs, transporting kids to and from
> school.
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 23:21:16
From:
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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Leo Lichtman wrote:
> The answers, so far, are given from the experience of the cyclist. I'll try
> to answer from the perspective of the motorist. I try to judge the future
> behavior of everyone on the streets from how they look, and how they are
> acting. If I see a middle-aged man wearing a felt hat, on a girl's bike,
> with the seat too low, I am pretty sure he is not going to dart into the
> traffic, or do anything very fast. But he might do something dumb, like
> ride slowly across a lane where he should have waited. So my treatment of
> him will be different from the way I drive near a youngish, fit rider in
> lycra on a good-looking bike, who pedals at just about the speed of traffic,
> and who looks back over his shoulder as we approach an intersection.
That is sort of my theory. Kids riding bikes too big, weirdos on
depatment-store bikes with 2 shopping bags hung over the grips, and
others weaving along at a walking pace at the edge of the road back and
forth across the white line almost catching their wheel on the edge of
the pavement every 3 seconds just look like a disaster waiting to
happen. At least they look that way to me whan I am driving (or
overtaking on my bike). Contrast with a racer type riding a line as
straight as a railroad track at 40km/h in a 50km/h zone. I give all
cyclists a huge gin when I am driving, but there is no doubt most
racer types do seem more predictable. Perhaps "normal" motorists pick
up on that as well, and it affects their behavior.
Joseph
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 07:08:58
From: catzz66
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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I regularly ride through a nice old upscale neighborhood and it is not
unusual to see seniors riding in street clothes. The typical ride is
either an older cruiser looking bike or a knobby tired mountain bike.
At least around here, they seem to ride pretty predictably, be alert to
the vehicular traffic and stay on the pavement. Some of them do ignore
modern conventions and consistently ride against traffic. Almost none
wear skid lids. Younger mountain bike and hybrid riders tend to be a
mixed lot, but generally wear street clothes. No long pants like the
seniors generally wear. Some wear helmets but many don't. Road bike
riders tend to mostly wear cycle clothing and almost all wear helmets.
Theh roadies tend to be less predictible about stopping at signals and
stop signs, but otherwise do not do many things that are unexpected. At
least in this neighborhood, most motorists seem to interact well with
all of them, probably because there are so many of them that they have
gotten used to them. In my experience, the most careless and unaware of
cyclists are those driving the big SUVs, transporting kids to and from
school.
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 21:28:47
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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Leo Lichtman wrote:
> <jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com> wrote: You mention felt hat. Would you use
> the presence or absence of a helmet in your evaluation, and if so, to what
> effect?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> First, let's not get into a discussion on the efficacy of helmets. But they
> are a part of the bike culture....
Discussions on the efficacy of helmets are certainly part of the
culture of Usenet cycling groups.
--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 14:30:00
From: Claire Petersky
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1157862527.333172.303130@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Leo Lichtman wrote:
>> <jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com> wrote: You mention felt hat. Would you
>> use
>> the presence or absence of a helmet in your evaluation, and if so, to
>> what
>> effect?
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> First, let's not get into a discussion on the efficacy of helmets. But
>> they
>> are a part of the bike culture....
>
> Discussions on the efficacy of helmets are certainly part of the
> culture of Usenet cycling groups.
To my regret. Either put the word HELMET in your subject line, or shut the
*&%$ up already.
Thanks.
--
Warm Regards,
Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 20:18:05
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am recovering from illness and I am basically taking it easy at home
> doing nothing. A few days ago I headed out for my first ride. It was
> to be a super low-effort short ride, so I just wore regular clothes.
> It went well, and I did the same for a few days to get back into the
> swing of things. Yesterday I decide to go for a longer ride, so I
> suited up in my full lycra gear and headed out for a 1 hour ride. It
> was great to be back on the road, and there were no incidents to
> speak of, but I get the distinct feeling that motorists gave me more
> room when I had regular clothes on!
>
> Has anyone ever noticed this? Do motorsists have less patience with
> racer wannabes than with average joes?
No. (You may get more comments from young-ish people, however.)
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 20:57:31
From: Leo Lichtman
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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The answers, so far, are given from the experience of the cyclist. I'll try
to answer from the perspective of the motorist. I try to judge the future
behavior of everyone on the streets from how they look, and how they are
acting. If I see a middle-aged man wearing a felt hat, on a girl's bike,
with the seat too low, I am pretty sure he is not going to dart into the
traffic, or do anything very fast. But he might do something dumb, like
ride slowly across a lane where he should have waited. So my treatment of
him will be different from the way I drive near a youngish, fit rider in
lycra on a good-looking bike, who pedals at just about the speed of traffic,
and who looks back over his shoulder as we approach an intersection.
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 22:04:39
From: Chris Z The Wheelman
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
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I never really noticed any real difference between the way moterists
regard me wether I'm in spandex or denim. But one possible reason may be
that in spandex you look more experienced and less likely to do
something stupid, so they feel that you require less breathing room than
the "iggerent novice" who might weave right in front of them at any
moment.
- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner
To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 01:53:55
From:
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
|
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 20:57:31 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
<l.lichtman@worldnet.att.net > wrote:
>The answers, so far, are given from the experience of the cyclist. I'll try
>to answer from the perspective of the motorist. I try to judge the future
>behavior of everyone on the streets from how they look, and how they are
>acting. If I see a middle-aged man wearing a felt hat, on a girl's bike,
>with the seat too low, I am pretty sure he is not going to dart into the
>traffic, or do anything very fast. But he might do something dumb, like
>ride slowly across a lane where he should have waited. So my treatment of
>him will be different from the way I drive near a youngish, fit rider in
>lycra on a good-looking bike, who pedals at just about the speed of traffic,
>and who looks back over his shoulder as we approach an intersection.
>
You mention felt hat. Would you use the presence or absence of a
helmet in your evaluation, and if so, to what effect?
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 02:19:36
From: Leo Lichtman
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
|
<jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com > wrote: You mention felt hat. Would you use
the presence or absence of a helmet in your evaluation, and if so, to what
effect?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
First, let's not get into a discussion on the efficacy of helmets. But they
are a part of the bike culture. The presence or absence of a helmet, in
conjunction with riding style, speed, physique, type of bike, and a whole
lot of other stuff, makes a picture of a cyclist. An ill-fitting helmet
cocked on the back of a child's head tells me something different from a
helmet that's obviously part of riding outfit.
This is all part of how we judge people in every encounter. It's not
something special about bicyclists.
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 15:06:29
From: Ken C. M.
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
|
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am recovering from illness and I am basically taking it easy at home
> doing nothing. A few days ago I headed out for my first ride. It was to
> be a super low-effort short ride, so I just wore regular clothes. It
> went well, and I did the same for a few days to get back into the swing
> of things. Yesterday I decide to go for a longer ride, so I suited up
> in my full lycra gear and headed out for a 1 hour ride. It was great to
> be back on the road, and there were no incidents to speak of, but I get
> the distinct feeling that motorists gave me more room when I had
> regular clothes on!
>
> Has anyone ever noticed this? Do motorsists have less patience with
> racer wannabes than with average joes?
>
> Joseph
>
No I haven't noticed any difference in the distance given to me by
motorists no matter what I am wearing. The only time I notice that they
give me much more room is when I have my panniers on my rear rack, any
then they tend to give me a wide berth.
Ken
--
Messengers and mountain bikers share a common chromosome. ~James Bethea
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 14:51:53
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
|
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
:: Has anyone ever noticed this? Do motorsists have less patience with
:: racer wannabes than with average joes?
No.
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 12:01:47
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Motorists and lycra?
|
Roger Zoul <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > wrote:
> joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> :: Has anyone ever noticed this? Do motorsists have less patience with
> :: racer wannabes than with average joes?
>
> No.
Quite. If anything, I've had much more negative interactions with
drivers while I was on my old, very ugly, grocery bike while I was
wearing street clothes. [1] Interestingly enough, I've always observed
the largest behavioural difference in the more affluent part of town.
[1] T-shirt, cargo shorts, etc.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
When you meet a master swordsman,
show him your sword.
When you meet a man who is not a poet,
do not show him your poem.
-- Rinzai, ninth century Zen master
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