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Main
Date: 23 Jan 2007 09:44:58
From: cmcanulty
Subject: Needed new bike design
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I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
maintenance chores for everyone.
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 13:55:27
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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On Jan 24, 3:27 pm, Werehatrack <raul...@earthWEEDSlink.net > wrote:
> On 24 Jan 2007 08:39:55 -0800, "landotter" <landot...@gmail.com> may
> have said:
>
> >The bravery of the American casual cyclist is certainly lacking (My
> >neighbors were amazed that I rode errands in a drizzle yesterday), but
> >that's not the reason we don't have full chain case bikes. It had very
> >much to do with the weight of imported bikes and the law (duty I
> >believe). A full chaincase put a lot of bikes right over the limit.
> >That's the reason my rod brake Raleigh Tourist has a hockey stick
> >chainguard and not a case.The regs were doubtless devised carefully; I have no doubt that the
> limits were established at just the point at which the typical non-US
> bike would be over the low-tariff limit. Of course, there are many
> ways to address such an obstacle, but the obvious one in this instance
> was to simply acknowledge that US riders didn't care about a full
> chain case anyway, and delete the non-feature to save weight and cost.
> (Not that it weighs that much, really; the one on my Puch isn't much
> more than a pound.)
>
> If full-case chains were in demand in the US ket in the era when
> bikes were still made here, rest assured that Murray, Huffy, Schwinn
> and Columbia (among others) would have commonly provided them. That
> they didn't is ample evidence of the absence of demand in the
> ketplace...and it wasn't a matter of weight on a bike that already
> weighed 40 lbs, as plenty of them did in those days.
Tut tut, you know as well as I, that the bicycle ketplace isn't so
much driven by the needs or demands of the consumer as by trends. :-P
The Swedes could have well done with closed chain cases as well,
considering the climate, but Swedish made bikes rarely had them. It was
as much a feature on British and Dutch roadsters as a styling element.
The Swedes had their own style, check out some of the neato full guards
here:
http://www.cykelhistoriska.se/sofiero06.html
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 00:56:09
From: nash
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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Could you at least send over the part and install it yourself then? If so
inclined.
SN
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 01:25:24
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:56:09 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net >
may have said:
>Could you at least send over the part and install it yourself then? If so
>inclined.
They're rekably non-portable between frames.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 20:23:20
From: Mike Causer
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:49:33 -0800, ian.rosenberg@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 24, 9:01 am, "Rex Kerr" <rexk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
>> > be expensive.
>>
>> >http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunb...I like that two speed crankset. Interesting!
>
> What I find interesting is that their lightweight race model in 1890
> weighed only 16 pounds. That's not all that much more than modern race
> bikes. How?? Is it a typo for 26 pounds?
No brakes, no gears, no mudguards (fenders), but even then without
a lot of aluminium components, which were /very/ expensive and unusual at
the time, I can't see them getting to 16lb. Must be a typo or complete hype.
Mike
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 15:44:54
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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On 24 Jan 2007 20:23:20 GMT, Mike Causer
<mikec@firstnamelastname.com.invalid > wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:49:33 -0800, ian.rosenberg@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Jan 24, 9:01 am, "Rex Kerr" <rexk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
>>> > be expensive.
>>>
>>> >http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunb...I like that two speed crankset. Interesting!
>>
>> What I find interesting is that their lightweight race model in 1890
>> weighed only 16 pounds. That's not all that much more than modern race
>> bikes. How?? Is it a typo for 26 pounds?
>
>No brakes, no gears, no mudguards (fenders), but even then without
>a lot of aluminium components, which were /very/ expensive and unusual at
>the time, I can't see them getting to 16lb. Must be a typo or complete hype.
>
>
>Mike
Bamboo frames and laminated track wheel sets would get very close and
probably make it in small sizes. Bamboo was light and, when properly
constructed, strong enough for track and cinder track racing. Not
unknown in the 1890s on.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 29 Jan 2007 14:23:54
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:44:54 -0500, Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> Bamboo frames and laminated track wheel sets would get very close and
> probably make it in small sizes. Bamboo was light and, when properly
> constructed, strong enough for track and cinder track racing. Not
> unknown in the 1890s on.
...or even today:
http://www.calfeedesign.com/pages/bamboo.php
Matt O.
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 08:39:55
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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On Jan 24, 1:30 am, Werehatrack <raul...@earthWEEDSlink.net > wrote:
> On 23 Jan 2007 09:44:58 -0800, "cmcanulty" <cmcanu...@gmail.com> may
> have said:
>
> >I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
> >salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
> >has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
> >maintenance chores for everyone.Huh? I have a bike like that here. It's about 30 years old, and ones
> like it were (and probably still are) as common in parts of Europe as
> pickup trucks are in Texas. Fully enclosed chain, gearhub, drum
> brakes; all of these things have been around since before WWII. The
> reason that you don't see them in the US very often is that most
> Americans are wimps when it comes to going places, particularly in bad
> weather; they drive *everywhere*, even to a store two blocks from
> where they live. Even a lot of otherwise avid cyclists won't ride in
> rain...and even fewer in snow.
The bravery of the American casual cyclist is certainly lacking (My
neighbors were amazed that I rode errands in a drizzle yesterday), but
that's not the reason we don't have full chain case bikes. It had very
much to do with the weight of imported bikes and the law (duty I
believe). A full chaincase put a lot of bikes right over the limit.
That's the reason my rod brake Raleigh Tourist has a hockey stick
chainguard and not a case.
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 15:27:21
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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On 24 Jan 2007 08:39:55 -0800, "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com > may
have said:
>The bravery of the American casual cyclist is certainly lacking (My
>neighbors were amazed that I rode errands in a drizzle yesterday), but
>that's not the reason we don't have full chain case bikes. It had very
>much to do with the weight of imported bikes and the law (duty I
>believe). A full chaincase put a lot of bikes right over the limit.
>That's the reason my rod brake Raleigh Tourist has a hockey stick
>chainguard and not a case.
The regs were doubtless devised carefully; I have no doubt that the
limits were established at just the point at which the typical non-US
bike would be over the low-tariff limit. Of course, there are many
ways to address such an obstacle, but the obvious one in this instance
was to simply acknowledge that US riders didn't care about a full
chain case anyway, and delete the non-feature to save weight and cost.
(Not that it weighs that much, really; the one on my Puch isn't much
more than a pound.)
If full-case chains were in demand in the US ket in the era when
bikes were still made here, rest assured that Murray, Huffy, Schwinn
and Columbia (among others) would have commonly provided them. That
they didn't is ample evidence of the absence of demand in the
ketplace...and it wasn't a matter of weight on a bike that already
weighed 40 lbs, as plenty of them did in those days.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 01:30:35
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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On 23 Jan 2007 09:44:58 -0800, "cmcanulty" <cmcanulty@gmail.com > may
have said:
>I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
>salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
>has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
>maintenance chores for everyone.
Huh? I have a bike like that here. It's about 30 years old, and ones
like it were (and probably still are) as common in parts of Europe as
pickup trucks are in Texas. Fully enclosed chain, gearhub, drum
brakes; all of these things have been around since before WWII. The
reason that you don't see them in the US very often is that most
Americans are wimps when it comes to going places, particularly in bad
weather; they drive *everywhere*, even to a store two blocks from
where they live. Even a lot of otherwise avid cyclists won't ride in
rain...and even fewer in snow. Thus, there's just not enough demand
to make it possible to ket a bike like that in the US mass-ket
arenas profitably. At least, not yet.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 22:49:33
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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On Jan 24, 9:01 am, "Rex Kerr" <rexk...@gmail.com > wrote:
> >Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
> > be expensive.
>
> >http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunb...I like that two speed crankset. Interesting!
What I find interesting is that their lightweight race model in 1890
weighed only 16 pounds. That's not all that much more than modern race
bikes. How?? Is it a typo for 26 pounds?
"In 1890 Sunbeam exhibited some interesting new models at the Stanley
Show. Their lightweight road racer weighed only 16 lbs, and the Light
Roadster weighed 29 lbs. Also on display was the spring frame Sunbeam,
an anti-vibration model. Unfortunately the idea did not prove to be
successful due to the launch of J. B. Dunlop's pneumatic tyre."
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 17:01:15
From: Rex Kerr
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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>Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
> be expensive.
>
> http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunb...
I like that two speed crankset. Interesting!
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 23:29:17
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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Rex Kerr wrote:
>> Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
>> be expensive.
>>
>> http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunb...
>
>
> I like that two speed crankset. Interesting!
>
Schlumpf Speed Drive, still expensive:
http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=schlumpf+mountain+speed+drive+&btnG=Search
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 20:10:31
From: Mike Causer
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:44:58 -0800, cmcanulty wrote:
> I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
> salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
> has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
> maintenance chores for everyone.
Well, they've been made since 1889, but if you can find one it's going to
be expensive.
http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunbeam.htm
Mike
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 11:53:24
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > cmcanulty wrote:
> > > I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
> > > salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
> > > has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
> > > maintenance chores for everyone.
> >
> > Internal hub with a nickel plated chain. You don't need a chain guard
> > if you don't want one. I commuted with this setup for years in Chicago
> > winters.I'd have an old towel or rag handy and wipe the crap off the
> > chain when I got home. Wet lube once weekly and no trouble at all. I
> > like those KMC "heavy duty" bmx chains for winter use with Nexus and
> > Sram hubs. Strong, cheap, and say FU to the elements.
>
> What he said, but you can even skip the wet lube and wipe off bit if
> you want. Comes with internal foot brake too if you want.
>
> Joseph
Or roller brake. I liked how mine had traditional cantis with Eagle
Claws up front and an ultra reliable roller brake in rear. Another
thing: if it's really cold, moisture in cable housings can freeze and
disable your brakes. I spritz of your choice of lube in the housings at
the beginning of the winter can prevent this. I used to always use it
as an excuse to bring my bike into a pub to warm up the brake lines.
Nothing like a nice pint for the rider either. :-D
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 11:42:22
From:
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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landotter wrote:
> cmcanulty wrote:
> > I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
> > salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
> > has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
> > maintenance chores for everyone.
>
> Internal hub with a nickel plated chain. You don't need a chain guard
> if you don't want one. I commuted with this setup for years in Chicago
> winters.I'd have an old towel or rag handy and wipe the crap off the
> chain when I got home. Wet lube once weekly and no trouble at all. I
> like those KMC "heavy duty" bmx chains for winter use with Nexus and
> Sram hubs. Strong, cheap, and say FU to the elements.
What he said, but you can even skip the wet lube and wipe off bit if
you want. Comes with internal foot brake too if you want.
Joseph
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 11:05:30
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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cmcanulty wrote:
> I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow and
> salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain and brake system. Why
> has no one come up with this? It would also greatly ease cleaning and
> maintenance chores for everyone.
Internal hub with a nickel plated chain. You don't need a chain guard
if you don't want one. I commuted with this setup for years in Chicago
winters.I'd have an old towel or rag handy and wipe the crap off the
chain when I got home. Wet lube once weekly and no trouble at all. I
like those KMC "heavy duty" bmx chains for winter use with Nexus and
Sram hubs. Strong, cheap, and say FU to the elements.
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 18:38:15
From: Helmut Springer
Subject: Re: Needed new bike design
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cmcanulty <cmcanulty@gmail.com > wrote:
> I think the thing needed for practical winter riding where snow
> and salt are the norm is a fully enclosed drivetrain
That does exists for decades already, with internal gear hubs or
single speed.
> and brake system.
Tricky, as you need to get the heat off somehow.
--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer
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