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Main
Date: 10 Feb 2007 03:27:11
From: Gorgeous George
Subject: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
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WTF is this...
http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
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Date: 21 Feb 2007 06:55:14
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
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In article <artoi-2A90DD.16350221022007@news-server.bigpond.net.au >,
Artoi <artoi@hotmail.com > writes:
> In article <rh9oqe.qk31.ln@bud.garden.local>,
> tkeats2005@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
>> In article <NcMzh.17520$ji1.15197@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>,
>> Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> Don't let any homicidal cats find out about that.
>> Might give 'em ideas.
>>
>> > so it might pay to look up.
>>
>> When I'm riding, my eyes are pretty much on the road.
>
> Maybe that's what your helmet is for!
Yeah, I can use it to Duck And Cover under :-)
Y'know, I /have/ been hit on the helmet by
horse chestnuts falling out of their trees.
I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of
them were aimed at me by sniper squirrels.
I've also had near misses from crows dropping
mussels onto the pavement.
I've not yet had to endure any ballistic
TV sets hurled by poorly socialized cats.
I guess I'm lucky.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 11 Feb 2007 15:40:43
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
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In article <NcMzh.17520$ji1.15197@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net >,
Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net > writes:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>> In article <8kwzh.5429$MN.4634@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>,
>> Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net> writes:
>>
>>> #2. A television set gets knocked out of a tenth floor window by
>>> 'Fluffy' the cat
>>
>> That would be a very interesting kitty indeed.
>>
>>> and once again you don't hear the warning.
>>
>> "Hey!! Youse down dere -- look the f*** out!
>> Oh, yeah -- meow."
>>
>>
>> cheers,
>> Tom
>>
> Well, you do have a fair idea of New York speech, but between cats and
> kids, stuff does come down once in a while. I heard that dropping a bag
> of water on someone from more than 10 floors can kill them with the
> impact
Don't let any homicidal cats find out about that.
Might give 'em ideas.
> so it might pay to look up.
When I'm riding, my eyes are pretty much on the road.
I'm not too concerned with whatever's happening on
the sidewalk anyways -- except maybe to note incipient
jaywalking in front of me.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 21 Feb 2007 05:35:07
From: Artoi
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
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In article <rh9oqe.qk31.ln@bud.garden.local >,
tkeats2005@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article <NcMzh.17520$ji1.15197@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>,
> Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net> writes:
> Don't let any homicidal cats find out about that.
> Might give 'em ideas.
>
> > so it might pay to look up.
>
> When I'm riding, my eyes are pretty much on the road.
Maybe that's what your helmet is for!
--
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Date: 11 Feb 2007 09:03:36
From: John Kane
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
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On Feb 10, 10:46 pm, Bill Baka <b...@comcast.net > wrote:
> dave...@mac.com wrote:
> > On Feb 10, 3:27 am, "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.geor...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> WTF is this...
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>
> > California Vehicle Code section 27,400 makes it illegal for either a
> > motorist or bicyclist to wear "earphones." I don't know if iPod's
> > "earbuds" would be considered "earphones," but I'd certainly argue
> > they were not.
>
> > You can look up the text of the statute on findlaw.com.
>
> > Dave
>
> Anything that impairs your hearing would be in that category but hey,
> those who just have to have music in their ears and ignore the world may
> just get Darwin'ed out. Scenario #1. A car goes out of control and you
> don't hear people shouting "Look out!"....Splat.
> #2. A television set gets knocked out of a tenth floor window by
> 'Fluffy' the cat and once again you don't hear the warning.
> #3. You are so into the music that you start to walk across the railroad
> tracks and don't hear the high speed commuter train....Splat.
> Does this make a point?
> Often our ears are the first or only sense to a threat, and if you can't
> hear you might just earn a free trip to the next world.
> Bill Baka
Strangely enough all my deaf aunts and uncles died peacefully in bed
at the age of 90+. Just lucky I guess.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
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Date: 11 Feb 2007 19:56:06
From:
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
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John Kane <jrkrideau@gmail.com > wrote:
> Strangely enough all my deaf aunts and uncles died peacefully in bed
> at the age of 90+. Just lucky I guess.
Or maybe, since their deafness was lifelong, they had adapted to it and
compensated for it.
Bill
__o
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Date: 11 Feb 2007 18:06:06
From: Don Wiss
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
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On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:56:06 +0000 (UTC), D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch wrote:
> Or maybe, since their deafness was lifelong, they had adapted to it and
>compensated for it.
Does deafness run in families? When growing up in Livingston NJ in the
1950's there was a sign on Hobart Gap Road stating to watch out for deaf
children (child?). Now more than 50 years later one is still there. My
father wonders if there is a deaf family. Or maybe once a sign goes up
there is no procedure for ever taking it down.
Anyone reading this from Livingston NJ?
Don <www.donwiss.com/joyrides > (e-mail link at page bottom).
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Date: 12 Feb 2007 19:46:22
From: Andrew Price
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
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On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:06:06 -0500, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com >
wrote:
>When growing up in Livingston NJ in the
>1950's there was a sign on Hobart Gap Road stating to watch out for deaf
>children (child?). Now more than 50 years later one is still there. My
>father wonders if there is a deaf family.
Or a specialised school for deaf children?
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Date: 12 Feb 2007 00:58:29
From: nash
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
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"Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com > wrote in message
news:g58vs21qleq9pvtqu87i6jutq2qj50gmfe@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:56:06 +0000 (UTC), D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch wrote:
>
>> Or maybe, since their deafness was lifelong, they had adapted to it and
>>compensated for it.
>
> Does deafness run in families? When growing up in Livingston NJ in the
> 1950's there was a sign on Hobart Gap Road stating to watch out for deaf
> children (child?). Now more than 50 years later one is still there. My
> father wonders if there is a deaf family. Or maybe once a sign goes up
> there is no procedure for ever taking it down.
>
> Anyone reading this from Livingston NJ?
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com/joyrides> (e-mail link at page bottom).
Asberger is hereditary and occurs most often in males. Has varying degrees
of deafness. My nephew has it.
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Date: 11 Feb 2007 01:27:14
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
In article <8kwzh.5429$MN.4634@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net >,
Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net > writes:
> #2. A television set gets knocked out of a tenth floor window by
> 'Fluffy' the cat
That would be a very interesting kitty indeed.
> and once again you don't hear the warning.
"Hey!! Youse down dere -- look the f*** out!
Oh, yeah -- meow."
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 11 Feb 2007 21:50:37
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <8kwzh.5429$MN.4634@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>,
> Bill Baka <bbaka@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> #2. A television set gets knocked out of a tenth floor window by
>> 'Fluffy' the cat
>
> That would be a very interesting kitty indeed.
>
>> and once again you don't hear the warning.
>
> "Hey!! Youse down dere -- look the f*** out!
> Oh, yeah -- meow."
>
>
> cheers,
> Tom
>
Well, you do have a fair idea of New York speech, but between cats and
kids, stuff does come down once in a while. I heard that dropping a bag
of water on someone from more than 10 floors can kill them with the
impact so it might pay to look up.
Bill Baka
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 19:39:17
From:
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On Feb 10, 7:35 pm, dave...@mac.com wrote:
> On Feb 10, 3:27 am, "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.geor...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > WTF is this...
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>
> California Vehicle Code section 27,400 makes it illegal for either a
> motorist or bicyclist to wear "earphones." I don't know if iPod's
> "earbuds" would be considered "earphones," but I'd certainly argue
> they were not.
>
> You can look up the text of the statute on findlaw.com.
>
> Dave
Here's the actual code section:
(You can see I got it mixed up. It's "headset covering, or earplugs
in, both ears."
27400. A person operating a motor vehicle or bicycle may not wear a
headset covering, or earplugs in, both ears. This prohibition does
not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person operating authorized emergency vehicles, as defined
in Section 165.
(b) A person engaged in the operation of either special
construction equipment or equipment for use in the maintenance of any
highway.
(c) A person engaged in the operation of refuse collection
equipment who is wearing a safety headset or safety earplugs.
(d) A person wearing personal hearing protectors in the form of
earplugs or molds that are specifically designed to attenuate
injurious noise levels. The plugs or molds shall be designed in a
manner so as to not inhibit the wearer's ability to hear a siren or
horn from an emergency vehicle or a horn from another motor vehicle.
(e) A person using a prosthetic device that aids the hard of
hearing.
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 19:35:55
From:
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
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On Feb 10, 3:27 am, "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.geor...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> WTF is this...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
California Vehicle Code section 27,400 makes it illegal for either a
motorist or bicyclist to wear "earphones." I don't know if iPod's
"earbuds" would be considered "earphones," but I'd certainly argue
they were not.
You can look up the text of the statute on findlaw.com.
Dave
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 19:46:14
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
dave28c@mac.com wrote:
> On Feb 10, 3:27 am, "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.geor...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> WTF is this...
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>
>
> California Vehicle Code section 27,400 makes it illegal for either a
> motorist or bicyclist to wear "earphones." I don't know if iPod's
> "earbuds" would be considered "earphones," but I'd certainly argue
> they were not.
>
> You can look up the text of the statute on findlaw.com.
>
> Dave
>
Anything that impairs your hearing would be in that category but hey,
those who just have to have music in their ears and ignore the world may
just get Darwin'ed out. Scenario #1. A car goes out of control and you
don't hear people shouting "Look out!"....Splat.
#2. A television set gets knocked out of a tenth floor window by
'Fluffy' the cat and once again you don't hear the warning.
#3. You are so into the music that you start to walk across the railroad
tracks and don't hear the high speed commuter train....Splat.
Does this make a point?
Often our ears are the first or only sense to a threat, and if you can't
hear you might just earn a free trip to the next world.
Bill Baka
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 10:06:31
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Bill Baka wrote:
:: dave28c@mac.com wrote:
::: On Feb 10, 3:27 am, "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.geor...@gmail.com >
::: wrote:
:::: WTF is this...
::::
:::: http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
:::
:::
::: California Vehicle Code section 27,400 makes it illegal for either a
::: motorist or bicyclist to wear "earphones." I don't know if iPod's
::: "earbuds" would be considered "earphones," but I'd certainly argue
::: they were not.
:::
::: You can look up the text of the statute on findlaw.com.
:::
::: Dave
:::
:: Anything that impairs your hearing would be in that category but hey,
:: those who just have to have music in their ears and ignore the world
:: may just get Darwin'ed out. Scenario #1. A car goes out of control
:: and you don't hear people shouting "Look out!"....Splat.
And what makes you think something else, like wind noise, won't prevent you
from hearing them. A person should simply had bad hearing or not be paying
attention to someone shouting.
:: #2. A television set gets knocked out of a tenth floor window by
:: 'Fluffy' the cat and once again you don't hear the warning.
:: #3. You are so into the music that you start to walk across the
:: railroad tracks and don't hear the high speed commuter
:: train....Splat.
You can be so into "thoughts" that the same thing could happen. You gonna
ban thinking? You could be talking to someone. Same thing.
:: Does this make a point?
:: Often our ears are the first or only sense to a threat, and if you
:: can't hear you might just earn a free trip to the next world.
:: Bill Baka
It's just so stupid to think that someone wearing earbugs can't hear what's
going on. Are we going to test everyone to ensure that we all have
adequate hearing? If not, then we simply have no way of knowing if we all
hear the same thing. And you can't keep people from thinking or being
distracted by something else.
How easy it is for us to give up personal liberty because of nonsensical
thinking.
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 16:20:40
From: amakyonin
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On Feb 10, 3:36 pm, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com > wrote:
> Listening to iPods with two ear buds when cycling is already illegal in NY
> State. Just like it is when driving a car. The reason has nothing to do
> with distraction. With both ears covered you can't hear signs of danger.
>
> See:http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/bike-vt.htm#sec375
>
> What I found interesting in the link is he wants to ban them while running?
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
The important thing is that having one ear covered is expressly
*permitted* by current NY law for bicyclists. It is silly to have
pedestrians forced to obey a more restrictive rule. It is also silly
to include cell phones in the proposal since they are almost always
monophonic and are no less safe than what is currently permitted for
bicyclists (neglecting of course the added distraction of being
engaged in a converation).
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 20:33:00
From: Don Wiss
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
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On 10 Feb 2007 16:20:40 -0800, amakyonin <amakyonin-u1@yahoo.com > wrote:
> It is also silly
>to include cell phones in the proposal since they are almost always
>monophonic and are no less safe than what is currently permitted for
>bicyclists (neglecting of course the added distraction of being
>engaged in a converation).
Hand held cell phone use is already prohibited in NY for motorists. And
this clause extends it to bicyclists: "Bicyclists, in-line skaters, and
motor vehicle drivers must all use and obey the same traffic laws."
Don <www.donwiss.com > (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 13:52:27
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
In article <s9pzh.3127$JF.638@newsfe21.lga >,
"BobT" <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net > writes:
> I want to use all my senses, including my ears, to be aware of
> motor vehicles on the road when I'm riding or running.
>
> I don't think we need a law to enforce my personal view on everyeone else.
> My "modest proposal" was somewhat tongue-in-cheek although we all should
> realize that behaviors that some think don't have effects on others may have
> broader effects on society like paying for head injuries in motorcycle
> riders that don't wear helments.
Folks might be interested in the thoughts of John S. Allen
on this topic, so here they are:
<http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/hearing.htm >
Personally I find when riding on quieter city side streets
and through back alleys or access lanes my auditory sense
can be useful for hearing trucks' back-up beepers
(especially on garbage pickup day.) On the arterials,
all I hear is pretty much a grey-noise ambience of the
rumble of all season tires and wind noise that conceals
most other sounds. If I do manage to hear anything
over that dull rumble, my own hearing isn't very
directional so it's hard to determine the direction
of its source.
If there's anything wrong with listening to tunes
while riding or running or walking, perhaps it has
more to do with distracted attention than with
sensory deprivation.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 09:57:48
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Tom Keats wrote:
:: In article <s9pzh.3127$JF.638@newsfe21.lga >,
:: "BobT" <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net > writes:
::
::: I want to use all my senses, including my ears, to be aware of
::: motor vehicles on the road when I'm riding or running.
:::
::: I don't think we need a law to enforce my personal view on
::: everyeone else. My "modest proposal" was somewhat tongue-in-cheek
::: although we all should realize that behaviors that some think don't
::: have effects on others may have broader effects on society like
::: paying for head injuries in motorcycle riders that don't wear
::: helments.
::
:: Folks might be interested in the thoughts of John S. Allen
:: on this topic, so here they are:
::
:: <http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/hearing.htm >
::
:: Personally I find when riding on quieter city side streets
:: and through back alleys or access lanes my auditory sense
:: can be useful for hearing trucks' back-up beepers
:: (especially on garbage pickup day.) On the arterials,
:: all I hear is pretty much a grey-noise ambience of the
:: rumble of all season tires and wind noise that conceals
:: most other sounds. If I do manage to hear anything
:: over that dull rumble, my own hearing isn't very
:: directional so it's hard to determine the direction
:: of its source.
::
:: If there's anything wrong with listening to tunes
:: while riding or running or walking, perhaps it has
:: more to do with distracted attention than with
:: sensory deprivation.
::
Absolutely it does. I was out riding on a longly country road early one
morning with no iPod. It was so enjoyable that I simply got lost in my
thoughts. Up ahead a truck came onto the road coming towards me. We both
there approaching a side road where he would turn left. He signaled, I saw
him and thought he saw me. I didn't bother to wave at him because I knew he
saw me so I returned to my thoughts. I got to the road and he simply
proceeded to turn right into me. I saw him at the last minute and quickly
moved right off the road into the heavy gravel. He stopped short, looked at
me off my road bike in the large stones, and apologized.
There is nothing one can do about not paying attention other than to pay
attention. Likely, wearing buds doesn't rob you of anything you can count
on (unlike riding while blindfolded). Also, because of wind noise, the
volume must be kept low so you only hear music some of the time, when
conditions are right. I have never not been able to hear anyone talking to
me or passing me on another bike. It's simply not an issue and I have no
loss of comfort when riding my bike while wearing buds.
::
:: cheers,
:: Tom
::
:: --
:: Nothing is safe from me.
:: Above address is just a spam midden.
:: I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 15:36:47
From: Don Wiss
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On 10 Feb 2007, Gorgeous George <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com > wrote:
>WTF is this...
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
Listening to iPods with two ear buds when cycling is already illegal in NY
State. Just like it is when driving a car. The reason has nothing to do
with distraction. With both ears covered you can't hear signs of danger.
See: http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/bike-vt.htm#sec375
What I found interesting in the link is he wants to ban them while running?
Don <www.donwiss.com > (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 09:59:27
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Don Wiss wrote:
:: On 10 Feb 2007, Gorgeous George <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com > wrote:
::
::: WTF is this...
:::
::: http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
::
:: Listening to iPods with two ear buds when cycling is already illegal
:: in NY State. Just like it is when driving a car. The reason has
:: nothing to do with distraction. With both ears covered you can't
:: hear signs of danger.
::
:: See: http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/bike-vt.htm#sec375
The reason is bogus, of course. I'm afraid that NY is engaged in robbing
its citizens are personal liberty at an alarming rate.
::
:: What I found interesting in the link is he wants to ban them while
:: running?
What's next?
::
:: Don <www.donwiss.com > (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 14:36:51
From: dgk
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:59:27 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
<rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Don Wiss wrote:
>:: On 10 Feb 2007, Gorgeous George <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com> wrote:
>::
>::: WTF is this...
>:::
>::: http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>::
>:: Listening to iPods with two ear buds when cycling is already illegal
>:: in NY State. Just like it is when driving a car. The reason has
>:: nothing to do with distraction. With both ears covered you can't
>:: hear signs of danger.
>::
>:: See: http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/bike-vt.htm#sec375
>
>The reason is bogus, of course. I'm afraid that NY is engaged in robbing
>its citizens are personal liberty at an alarming rate.
>
>::
No, it has no chance to pass. It was meant to get attention for a
situation and it got it.
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 15:00:14
From: Daryl Hunt
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com > wrote in message
news:hp44t2hd40mkmqlvpinrrfndv6mmiji7q8@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:59:27 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
> <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Don Wiss wrote:
>>:: On 10 Feb 2007, Gorgeous George <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com> wrote:
>>::
>>::: WTF is this...
>>:::
>>::: http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>>::
>>:: Listening to iPods with two ear buds when cycling is already illegal
>>:: in NY State. Just like it is when driving a car. The reason has
>>:: nothing to do with distraction. With both ears covered you can't
>>:: hear signs of danger.
>>::
>>:: See: http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/bike-vt.htm#sec375
>>
>>The reason is bogus, of course. I'm afraid that NY is engaged in robbing
>>its citizens are personal liberty at an alarming rate.
>>
>>::
>
> No, it has no chance to pass. It was meant to get attention for a
> situation and it got it.
I believe there are parts of NYC that don't allow them but the various
Municalities have that right. The State probably doesn't since the last
couple of courts.
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 13:36:57
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> WTF is this...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>
It's a paternalistic measure, but something that makes sense. How many
runners, walkers and cyclists get hit by cars while listening to Walkmans
since their introduction in the 80s? Now iPods. Although, in NYC at least,
it's usually the hipsters who sport the ubiquitous white Q-tip earphones all
over the streets, subways and curbs, bridges, wherever, and there's
something to be said about Darwinism.
|
| | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 09:45:51
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 wrote:
:: "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com > wrote in message
:: news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
::: WTF is this...
:::
::: http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
:::
::
::
:: It's a paternalistic measure, but something that makes sense. How
:: many runners, walkers and cyclists get hit by cars while listening
:: to Walkmans since their introduction in the 80s?
yeah, especially now that more and more drivers are talking on their cell
phones....lot more of that happening since the 80s.
Now iPods.
:: Although, in NYC at least, it's usually the hipsters who sport the
:: ubiquitous white Q-tip earphones all over the streets, subways and
:: curbs, bridges, wherever, and there's something to be said about
:: Darwinism.
|
| |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 13:32:38
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> WTF is this...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>
They should ban them for 18 wheelers - far more dangrous to public safety
than a cyclist
Truck spills 40 tons of cow intestines
Sat Feb 10, 6:31 AM ET
About 40 tons of cow intestines and bones spilled onto a major highway after
a truck driver became distracted by his digital music player and his
semitrailer tipped over, officials said.
Authorities closed parts of Interstate 43 for about two hours Thursday while
the beef byproduct was cleaned up, said sheriff's Sgt. Blaine Spicer.
The accident happened in the town of Mosel when 25-year-old Ryan Engle's
truck veered off the road as he adjusted his MP3 player, Spicer said.
Engle, of Kenosha, was cited for inattentive driving and taken to a hospital
with non-life threatening injuries, Spicer said.
The truck had to be towed from the scene. It is owned by Birchwood Transport
of Kenosha.
Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press.
|
| |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 10:07:46
From: bdbafh
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On Feb 10, 9:50 am, "Gooserider" <Gooseri...@mouse-potato.com > wrote:
> "Pat" <P...@faraway.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5361efF1r65iqU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
> > I fail to
> >> see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the environment any
> >> more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury car
> >> with the radio turned up.
>
> > It's because the motorist is protected by a steel cage and the cyclist is
> > many times more vulnerable. That's what makes it "stupid."
>
> Moreso than the MOTORCYCLIST? People on Harleys with loud pipes and helmets
> can't hear a thing.
Loud is safe.
The louder the hawg, the more that the motorists are aware of its
presence.
I've found that a booming voice is far more effective than a measly
bell when notifying a moron behind the wheel as to their errant ways.
Airhorn, anyone?
-bdbafh
|
| | |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 14:05:56
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"bdbafh" <bdbafh@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171130866.356990.238880@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 10, 9:50 am, "Gooserider" <Gooseri...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>> "Pat" <P...@faraway.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:5361efF1r65iqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>
>>
>> > I fail to
>> >> see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the environment
>> >> any
>> >> more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury
>> >> car
>> >> with the radio turned up.
>>
>> > It's because the motorist is protected by a steel cage and the cyclist
>> > is
>> > many times more vulnerable. That's what makes it "stupid."
>>
>> Moreso than the MOTORCYCLIST? People on Harleys with loud pipes and
>> helmets
>> can't hear a thing.
>
> Loud is safe.
>
> The louder the hawg, the more that the motorists are aware of its
> presence.
>
> I've found that a booming voice is far more effective than a measly
> bell when notifying a moron behind the wheel as to their errant ways.
>
> Airhorn, anyone?
>
> -bdbafh
>
That must be why I see so many bikers missing left legs, because people hear
them enough not to turn in front of them. Not. The loud pipes save lives
argument is overblown. And with the soundproofing of today's vehichles, your
"booming voice" isn't likely to register over the radio and air
conditioning.
|
| |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 07:32:01
From: landotter
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On Feb 10, 7:56 am, "Gooserider" <Gooseri...@mouse-potato.com > wrote:
> "BobT" <robertleetaylo...@MoveThisCox.net> wrote in message
>
> news:arjzh.57293$qy.8057@newsfe16.lga...
>
>
>
> > "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.geor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> >> WTF is this...
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>
> > My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone
> > that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with
> > other vehicles is quite foolish.
>
> > A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
> > injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should only
> > get medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would achieve
> > the goal of protecting the public at large from this person's poor
> > judgement but would not infringe on individual freedom with the only goal
> > of "protecting people from themselves".
>
> > Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
>
> > Ready, set, and go.
>
> > BobT
>
> Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request negate your
> 'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while cycling is already illegal
> in most places, but that doesn't mean the activity is "stupid". I fail to
> see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the environment any
> more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury car
> with the radio turned up.
You're not thinking hard enough, then. It's virtually impossible to
use headphones at a reasonable volume when you have to overcome wind
noise, so the vast majority of cyclists wearing 'phones have them at a
volume that's the equivalent of a car stereo that's so loud that it
would get you pulled over. That's right--most sane cities have laws
against egregious car stereo volume as well.
Oh, and Bob, suggesting the withholding of medical treatment to
somebody that's stupid enough to wear headphones and get hit makes you
an asshole. Bragging about a "libertarian streak" beforehand makes you
pitiful. Perhaps you should stick to the Ayn Rand and Push-Up
creamsicles, and stay off the Usenet.
The whole headphone debate is not a bit different from listening to a
drunk stagger to the door and slur, "but I'm fine to drive, hic."
|
| | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 07:48:38
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
landotter wrote:
:: On Feb 10, 7:56 am, "Gooserider" <Gooseri...@mouse-potato.com > wrote:
::: "BobT" <robertleetaylo...@MoveThisCox.net > wrote in message
:::
::: news:arjzh.57293$qy.8057@newsfe16.lga...
:::
:::
:::
:::: "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.geor...@gmail.com > wrote in message
:::: news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
::::: WTF is this...
:::
::::: http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
:::
:::: My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however
:::: anyone that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road
:::: shared with other vehicles is quite foolish.
:::
:::: A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires
:::: anyone injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity
:::: should only get medical treatment if they pay for it themselves.
:::: This would achieve the goal of protecting the public at large from
:::: this person's poor judgement but would not infringe on individual
:::: freedom with the only goal of "protecting people from themselves".
:::
:::: Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
:::
:::: Ready, set, and go.
:::
:::: BobT
:::
::: Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request
::: negate your 'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while cycling
::: is already illegal in most places, but that doesn't mean the
::: activity is "stupid". I fail to see how a cyclist wearing earphones
::: removes him from the environment any more than a motorcyclist
::: wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury car with the radio
::: turned up.
::
:: You're not thinking hard enough, then. It's virtually impossible to
:: use headphones at a reasonable volume when you have to overcome wind
:: noise, so the vast majority of cyclists wearing 'phones have them at
:: a volume that's the equivalent of a car stereo that's so loud that it
:: would get you pulled over.
Nonsense. Do you have even one cite that backs you up on what the "vast
majority" does? Get real.
That's right--most sane cities have laws
:: against egregious car stereo volume as well.
::
:: Oh, and Bob, suggesting the withholding of medical treatment to
:: somebody that's stupid enough to wear headphones and get hit makes
:: you an asshole. Bragging about a "libertarian streak" beforehand
:: makes you pitiful. Perhaps you should stick to the Ayn Rand and
:: Push-Up creamsicles, and stay off the Usenet.
True! :)
::
:: The whole headphone debate is not a bit different from listening to a
:: drunk stagger to the door and slur, "but I'm fine to drive, hic."
Nonsense.
|
| | |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 14:56:50
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On 10 Feb 2007 07:32:01 -0800, "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com >
wrote:
>You're not thinking hard enough, then. It's virtually impossible to
>use headphones at a reasonable volume when you have to overcome wind
>noise, so the vast majority of cyclists wearing 'phones have them at a
>volume that's the equivalent of a car stereo that's so loud that it
>would get you pulled over. That's right--most sane cities have laws
>against egregious car stereo volume as well.
And let's keep deaf people off bikes.
Why not be blunt - any competent cyclist can ride safely with no
ability to hear sounds around them. In all of my years, the only
person that I know that might have been killed for that reason was
someone hit by the high speed Amtrak going through Greenbelt, MD
(IIRC). And taking off the headphones may not have saved him - I saw
the guy ride and he was a general doofus, headphones or not.
And that's really the ones everyone is trying to save - the clueless
doofuses that are an emininent danger with or without earphones. Good
luck with that.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
|
| | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 04:06:46
From: OzCableguy
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Curtis L. Russell" <curtis@md-bicycling.org > wrote in message
news:3j8ss25dma4e4n4qr62smr3fmuk0c8thgj@4ax.com...
> On 10 Feb 2007 07:32:01 -0800, "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> And let's keep deaf people off bikes.
>
> Why not be blunt - any competent cyclist can ride safely with no
> ability to hear sounds around them.
Hooray! Common sense at last!
--
www.ozcableguy.com
www.oztechnologies.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 07:50:13
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
OzCableguy wrote:
:: "Curtis L. Russell" <curtis@md-bicycling.org > wrote in message
:: news:3j8ss25dma4e4n4qr62smr3fmuk0c8thgj@4ax.com...
::: On 10 Feb 2007 07:32:01 -0800, "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com >
::: wrote:
::
::: And let's keep deaf people off bikes.
:::
::: Why not be blunt - any competent cyclist can ride safely with no
::: ability to hear sounds around them.
::
:: Hooray! Common sense at last!
Yes!!!
|
| | |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 13:51:31
From: BobT
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171121521.298192.11690@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Oh, and Bob, suggesting the withholding of medical treatment to
> somebody that's stupid enough to wear headphones and get hit makes you
> an asshole. Bragging about a "libertarian streak" beforehand makes you
> pitiful. Perhaps you should stick to the Ayn Rand and Push-Up
> creamsicles, and stay off the Usenet.
Awesome comment! I'm too dense to get the Push-Up creamsicle reference,
please help. Please see my second post in the thread.
BobT
P.S.: Ayn Rand, "A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve
it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." I don't know what
this means either. Please help.
|
| | |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 18:21:32
From: nash
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171121521.298192.11690@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 10, 7:56 am, "Gooserider" <Gooseri...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>> "BobT" <robertleetaylo...@MoveThisCox.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:arjzh.57293$qy.8057@newsfe16.lga...
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.geor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>> >> WTF is this...
>>
>> >>http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>>
>> > My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone
>> > that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with
>> > other vehicles is quite foolish.
>>
>> > A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
>> > injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should only
>> > get medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would
>> > achieve
>> > the goal of protecting the public at large from this person's poor
>> > judgement but would not infringe on individual freedom with the only
>> > goal
>> > of "protecting people from themselves".
>>
>> > Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
>>
>> > Ready, set, and go.
>>
>> > BobT
>>
>> Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request negate your
>> 'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while cycling is already
>> illegal
>> in most places, but that doesn't mean the activity is "stupid". I fail to
>> see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the environment any
>> more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury car
>> with the radio turned up.
>
> You're not thinking hard enough, then. It's virtually impossible to
> use headphones at a reasonable volume when you have to overcome wind
> noise, so the vast majority of cyclists wearing 'phones have them at a
> volume that's the equivalent of a car stereo that's so loud that it
> would get you pulled over. That's right--most sane cities have laws
> against egregious car stereo volume as well.
>
> Oh, and Bob, suggesting the withholding of medical treatment to
> somebody that's stupid enough to wear headphones and get hit makes you
> an asshole. Bragging about a "libertarian streak" beforehand makes you
> pitiful. Perhaps you should stick to the Ayn Rand and Push-Up
> creamsicles, and stay off the Usenet.
>
> The whole headphone debate is not a bit different from listening to a
> drunk stagger to the door and slur, "but I'm fine to drive, hic."
>
No you are the DA. Anyone in a car listening to music is too drunk to
drive. Throw away their license forever. They are too distracted to see a
cyclist or care about anyone's safety.
|
| |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 07:09:58
From: BobT
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> WTF is this...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>
My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone that
wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with other
vehicles is quite foolish.
A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should only get
medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would achieve the
goal of protecting the public at large from this person's poor judgement but
would not infringe on individual freedom with the only goal of "protecting
people from themselves".
Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
Ready, set, and go.
BobT
|
| | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 07:38:16
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
BobT wrote:
:: "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com > wrote in message
:: news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
::: WTF is this...
:::
::: http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
:::
:: My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however
:: anyone that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road
:: shared with other vehicles is quite foolish.
Nonsense.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 16:02:47
From: dgk
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 07:09:58 -0600, "BobT"
<robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net > wrote:
>"Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>> WTF is this...
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>>
>My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone that
>wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with other
>vehicles is quite foolish.
>
>A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
>injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should only get
>medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would achieve the
>goal of protecting the public at large from this person's poor judgement but
>would not infringe on individual freedom with the only goal of "protecting
>people from themselves".
>
>Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
>
>Ready, set, and go.
>
>BobT
>
I spend at least 1:10 each way. I can't be alone that long with my
thoughts. Mostly I don't listen to music, I listen to talk radio for
the most part. It isn't usually loud enough to drown out anything
nearby.
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 17:33:35
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com > wrote in message
news:sbl1t2pnhqavvsrm82ar4u5intgd5qtrnj@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 07:09:58 -0600, "BobT"
> <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net> wrote:
>
>>"Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>>> WTF is this...
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>>>
>>My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone
>>that
>>wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with other
>>vehicles is quite foolish.
>>
>>A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
>>injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should only
>>get
>>medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would achieve the
>>goal of protecting the public at large from this person's poor judgement
>>but
>>would not infringe on individual freedom with the only goal of "protecting
>>people from themselves".
>>
>>Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
>>
>>Ready, set, and go.
>>
>>BobT
>>
>
>
> I spend at least 1:10 each way. I can't be alone that long with my
> thoughts. Mostly I don't listen to music, I listen to talk radio for
> the most part. It isn't usually loud enough to drown out anything
> nearby.
Exactly right. My commute is about as long as yours, and I don't want to be
alone with my thoughts that long either. Nothing wrong with a little
background music.
|
| | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 10:49:27
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Gooserider wrote:
:: "dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com > wrote in message
:: news:sbl1t2pnhqavvsrm82ar4u5intgd5qtrnj@4ax.com...
::: On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 07:09:58 -0600, "BobT"
::: <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net > wrote:
:::
:::: "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com > wrote in message
:::: news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
::::: WTF is this...
:::::
::::: http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
:::::
:::: My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however
:::: anyone that
:::: wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with
:::: other vehicles is quite foolish.
::::
:::: A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires
:::: anyone injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity
:::: should only get
:::: medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would
:::: achieve the goal of protecting the public at large from this
:::: person's poor judgement but
:::: would not infringe on individual freedom with the only goal of
:::: "protecting people from themselves".
::::
:::: Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
::::
:::: Ready, set, and go.
::::
:::: BobT
::::
:::
:::
::: I spend at least 1:10 each way. I can't be alone that long with my
::: thoughts. Mostly I don't listen to music, I listen to talk radio for
::: the most part. It isn't usually loud enough to drown out anything
::: nearby.
::
:: Exactly right. My commute is about as long as yours, and I don't
:: want to be alone with my thoughts that long either. Nothing wrong
:: with a little background music.
When I'm alone with my thoughts, I get seriously distracted. A fast beat
helps, and it doesn't need to be loud enough to overwhelm other sounds. I
don't know why people find this notion so hard to get.
|
| | |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 08:56:12
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"BobT" <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net > wrote in message
news:arjzh.57293$qy.8057@newsfe16.lga...
> "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>> WTF is this...
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>>
> My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone
> that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with
> other vehicles is quite foolish.
>
> A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
> injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should only
> get medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would achieve
> the goal of protecting the public at large from this person's poor
> judgement but would not infringe on individual freedom with the only goal
> of "protecting people from themselves".
>
> Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
>
> Ready, set, and go.
>
> BobT
>
Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request negate your
'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while cycling is already illegal
in most places, but that doesn't mean the activity is "stupid". I fail to
see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the environment any
more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury car
with the radio turned up. Cyclists are more likely to be hit in
intersections than from behind. Even IF you happen to hear a car coming up
behind you---what are the chances one can dodge to the right to avoid the
hit?
|
| | | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 02:53:21
From: Daryl Hunt
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com > wrote in message
news:45cdcef7$0$16997$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "BobT" <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net> wrote in message
> news:arjzh.57293$qy.8057@newsfe16.lga...
>> "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>>> WTF is this...
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>>>
>> My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone
>> that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with
>> other vehicles is quite foolish.
>>
>> A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
>> injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should only
>> get medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would achieve
>> the goal of protecting the public at large from this person's poor
>> judgement but would not infringe on individual freedom with the only goal
>> of "protecting people from themselves".
>>
>> Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
>>
>> Ready, set, and go.
>>
>> BobT
>>
>
> Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request negate your
> 'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while cycling is already illegal
> in most places, but that doesn't mean the activity is "stupid". I fail to
> see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the environment any
> more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury car
> with the radio turned up. Cyclists are more likely to be hit in
> intersections than from behind. Even IF you happen to hear a car coming up
> behind you---what are the chances one can dodge to the right to avoid the
> hit?
I was a MCylists for decades. The Helmet doesn't stop you from hearing.
Most Helmets are designed to allow full hearing. Now, if you make one out
of Tin Foil and Superglue then it will obstruct your hearing.
Now, if you do have such a helmet that obstructs the hearing it's against
the NHTA safety Regs and can get you cited and have your insurance revoked
upon a cop noticing.
One must be able to hear. Especially if you are on two wheels.
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 10:42:29
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Daryl Hunt wrote:
:: One must be able to hear. Especially if you are on two wheels.
Prove that.
|
| | | | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 09:12:24
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com > wrote in message
news:45cee84a$1@news.i70west.com...
>
> "Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
> news:45cdcef7$0$16997$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> "BobT" <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net> wrote in message
>> news:arjzh.57293$qy.8057@newsfe16.lga...
>>> "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>>>> WTF is this...
>>>>
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>>>>
>>> My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone
>>> that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with
>>> other vehicles is quite foolish.
>>>
>>> A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
>>> injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should only
>>> get medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would achieve
>>> the goal of protecting the public at large from this person's poor
>>> judgement but would not infringe on individual freedom with the only
>>> goal of "protecting people from themselves".
>>>
>>> Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
>>>
>>> Ready, set, and go.
>>>
>>> BobT
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request negate your
>> 'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while cycling is already
>> illegal in most places, but that doesn't mean the activity is "stupid". I
>> fail to see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the
>> environment any more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist
>> in a luxury car with the radio turned up. Cyclists are more likely to be
>> hit in intersections than from behind. Even IF you happen to hear a car
>> coming up behind you---what are the chances one can dodge to the right to
>> avoid the hit?
>
> I was a MCylists for decades. The Helmet doesn't stop you from hearing.
> Most Helmets are designed to allow full hearing. Now, if you make one out
> of Tin Foil and Superglue then it will obstruct your hearing.
>
> Now, if you do have such a helmet that obstructs the hearing it's against
> the NHTA safety Regs and can get you cited and have your insurance revoked
> upon a cop noticing.
>
> One must be able to hear. Especially if you are on two wheels.
>
I seriously doubt someone with a full face helmet going 55mph can hear much
at all. Then there are the Harley guys with loud pipes and half helmets.
They're effectively deaf. Hearing is overrated----unless you think deaf
people shouldn't be able to ride bicycles.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 08:32:34
From: Daryl Hunt
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com > wrote in message
news:45cf2445$0$8989$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com> wrote in message
> news:45cee84a$1@news.i70west.com...
>>
>> "Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
>> news:45cdcef7$0$16997$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>
>>> "BobT" <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:arjzh.57293$qy.8057@newsfe16.lga...
>>>> "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> WTF is this...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>>>>>
>>>> My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone
>>>> that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with
>>>> other vehicles is quite foolish.
>>>>
>>>> A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
>>>> injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should only
>>>> get medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would
>>>> achieve the goal of protecting the public at large from this person's
>>>> poor judgement but would not infringe on individual freedom with the
>>>> only goal of "protecting people from themselves".
>>>>
>>>> Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
>>>>
>>>> Ready, set, and go.
>>>>
>>>> BobT
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request negate
>>> your 'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while cycling is already
>>> illegal in most places, but that doesn't mean the activity is "stupid".
>>> I fail to see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the
>>> environment any more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist
>>> in a luxury car with the radio turned up. Cyclists are more likely to be
>>> hit in intersections than from behind. Even IF you happen to hear a car
>>> coming up behind you---what are the chances one can dodge to the right
>>> to avoid the hit?
>>
>> I was a MCylists for decades. The Helmet doesn't stop you from hearing.
>> Most Helmets are designed to allow full hearing. Now, if you make one
>> out of Tin Foil and Superglue then it will obstruct your hearing.
>>
>> Now, if you do have such a helmet that obstructs the hearing it's against
>> the NHTA safety Regs and can get you cited and have your insurance
>> revoked upon a cop noticing.
>>
>> One must be able to hear. Especially if you are on two wheels.
>>
>
> I seriously doubt someone with a full face helmet going 55mph can hear
> much at all. Then there are the Harley guys with loud pipes and half
> helmets. They're effectively deaf. Hearing is overrated----unless you
> think deaf people shouldn't be able to ride bicycles.
Let's see. When my son was 8, he used to use the same arguments. "Well, He
Does IT". " and "Look at Jimmy". That didn't make it any more right. It
was wrong. Time to look at the problem by itself.
Or we can use the argument: "Well, I shouldn't be punished since HE chopped
up 31 people and ate them and I just shot only one person".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: 11 Feb 2007 22:21:01
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com > wrote in message
news:45cf379f$1@news.i70west.com...
>
> >
> Let's see. When my son was 8, he used to use the same arguments. "Well,
> He Does IT". " and "Look at Jimmy". That didn't make it any more right.
> It was wrong. Time to look at the problem by itself.
>
> Or we can use the argument: "Well, I shouldn't be punished since HE
> chopped up 31 people and ate them and I just shot only one person".
>
>
It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of miles while
listening to music---no incidents. The fear of being hit from behind is
overblown. Cyclists are more likely to be hit in intersections or parking
lots, and if a cyclist isn't paying attention there I have little sympathy.
There seems to be a belief among certain posters in this newsgroup that:
A) One can differentiate between a car which is passing normally OR one
which is about to run you over, simply by listening. Impossible.
B) If one could HEAR a car about to hit, a cyclist would be able to avoid
the hit. Unlikely, at best. I don't know about your road conditions, but if
I take my road bike off the shoulder at 20mph I'm likely to endo and break
my neck.
This whole issue cracks me up. I remember not long ago, a cyclist was
ticketed in Portland for not having a brake on her fixie, and she had no
shortage of support. Now that's crazy. Riding a brakeless bike in traffic is
far more dangerous than listening to an iPod, but I guess we have to pick
which reckless behavior is cool and which isn't. OK.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 10:45:40
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Gooserider wrote:
:: It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of
:: miles while listening to music---no incidents. The fear of being hit
:: from behind is overblown. Cyclists are more likely to be hit in
:: intersections or parking lots, and if a cyclist isn't paying
:: attention there I have little sympathy. There seems to be a belief
Anyone can have a lapse of attention. Hence, you should have sympathy for
any cyclist who gets hit because of a lapse of attention.
:: among certain posters in this newsgroup that:
::
:: A) One can differentiate between a car which is passing normally OR
:: one which is about to run you over, simply by listening. Impossible.
::
:: B) If one could HEAR a car about to hit, a cyclist would be able to
:: avoid the hit. Unlikely, at best. I don't know about your road
:: conditions, but if I take my road bike off the shoulder at 20mph I'm
:: likely to endo and break my neck.
::
:: This whole issue cracks me up. I remember not long ago, a cyclist was
:: ticketed in Portland for not having a brake on her fixie, and she
:: had no shortage of support. Now that's crazy. Riding a brakeless
:: bike in traffic is far more dangerous than listening to an iPod, but
:: I guess we have to pick which reckless behavior is cool and which
:: isn't. OK.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 12:35:15
From:
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:21:01 -0500, "Gooserider"
<Gooserider@mouse-potato.com > wrote:
>
>"Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com> wrote in message
>news:45cf379f$1@news.i70west.com...
>>
>> >
>> Let's see. When my son was 8, he used to use the same arguments. "Well,
>> He Does IT". " and "Look at Jimmy". That didn't make it any more right.
>> It was wrong. Time to look at the problem by itself.
>>
>> Or we can use the argument: "Well, I shouldn't be punished since HE
>> chopped up 31 people and ate them and I just shot only one person".
>>
>>
>
>It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of miles while
>listening to music---no incidents.
Anecdote is not proof.
Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid; it's no
surprise that someone who does this will not understand the risk.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 10:46:15
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com wrote:
:: On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:21:01 -0500, "Gooserider"
:: <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com > wrote:
::
:::
::: "Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com > wrote in message
::: news:45cf379f$1@news.i70west.com...
::::
:::::
:::: Let's see. When my son was 8, he used to use the same arguments.
:::: "Well, He Does IT". " and "Look at Jimmy". That didn't make it
:::: any more right. It was wrong. Time to look at the problem by
:::: itself.
::::
:::: Or we can use the argument: "Well, I shouldn't be punished since
:::: HE chopped up 31 people and ate them and I just shot only one
:::: person".
::::
::::
:::
::: It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of
::: miles while listening to music---no incidents.
::
:: Anecdote is not proof.
::
:: Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid; it's no
:: surprise that someone who does this will not understand the risk.
Anecdote is not proof
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 17:34:30
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
<jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com > wrote in message
news:7qn0t2hl0184t1h99h1gvs64126sf6j95p@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:21:01 -0500, "Gooserider"
> <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com> wrote in message
>>news:45cf379f$1@news.i70west.com...
>>>
>>> >
>>> Let's see. When my son was 8, he used to use the same arguments.
>>> "Well,
>>> He Does IT". " and "Look at Jimmy". That didn't make it any more
>>> right.
>>> It was wrong. Time to look at the problem by itself.
>>>
>>> Or we can use the argument: "Well, I shouldn't be punished since HE
>>> chopped up 31 people and ate them and I just shot only one person".
>>>
>>>
>>
>>It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of miles
>>while
>>listening to music---no incidents.
>
> Anecdote is not proof.
>
> Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid; it's no
> surprise that someone who does this will not understand the risk.
Care to cite ANY proof to back up your claim? Or are you just another
nanny-state busybody?
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 11:30:13
From: Daryl Hunt
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com > wrote in message
news:45d0eb6f$0$24709$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> <jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com> wrote in message
> news:7qn0t2hl0184t1h99h1gvs64126sf6j95p@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:21:01 -0500, "Gooserider"
>> <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com> wrote in message
>>>news:45cf379f$1@news.i70west.com...
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> Let's see. When my son was 8, he used to use the same arguments.
>>>> "Well,
>>>> He Does IT". " and "Look at Jimmy". That didn't make it any more
>>>> right.
>>>> It was wrong. Time to look at the problem by itself.
>>>>
>>>> Or we can use the argument: "Well, I shouldn't be punished since HE
>>>> chopped up 31 people and ate them and I just shot only one person".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of miles
>>>while
>>>listening to music---no incidents.
>>
>> Anecdote is not proof.
>>
>> Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid; it's no
>> surprise that someone who does this will not understand the risk.
>
>
> Care to cite ANY proof to back up your claim? Or are you just another
> nanny-state busybody?
It's okay to throw that temper tantrum now. Start screaming, "You can't
tell ME what to do!" and throw yourself onto the ground and you will
probably miss.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 14 Feb 2007 16:28:37
From:
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:30:13 -0700, "Daryl Hunt"
<dhunt@colwestnospam.com > wrote:
>
>"Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
>news:45d0eb6f$0$24709$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> <jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com> wrote in message
>> news:7qn0t2hl0184t1h99h1gvs64126sf6j95p@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:21:01 -0500, "Gooserider"
>>> <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:45cf379f$1@news.i70west.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> Let's see. When my son was 8, he used to use the same arguments.
>>>>> "Well,
>>>>> He Does IT". " and "Look at Jimmy". That didn't make it any more
>>>>> right.
>>>>> It was wrong. Time to look at the problem by itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or we can use the argument: "Well, I shouldn't be punished since HE
>>>>> chopped up 31 people and ate them and I just shot only one person".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of miles
>>>>while
>>>>listening to music---no incidents.
>>>
>>> Anecdote is not proof.
>>>
>>> Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid; it's no
>>> surprise that someone who does this will not understand the risk.
>>
>>
>> Care to cite ANY proof to back up your claim? Or are you just another
>> nanny-state busybody?
>
>It's okay to throw that temper tantrum now. Start screaming, "You can't
>tell ME what to do!" and throw yourself onto the ground and you will
>probably miss.
Cycling darwinism...go on, wear those headphones.
Do it before you pass on your genes, please...
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Feb 2007 20:08:48
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
<jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com > wrote in message
news:p5e6t2t0bpk2ob8mkng6vg133t5chlhrov@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:30:13 -0700, "Daryl Hunt"
> <dhunt@colwestnospam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
>>news:45d0eb6f$0$24709$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>
>>> <jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7qn0t2hl0184t1h99h1gvs64126sf6j95p@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:21:01 -0500, "Gooserider"
>>>> <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:45cf379f$1@news.i70west.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> Let's see. When my son was 8, he used to use the same arguments.
>>>>>> "Well,
>>>>>> He Does IT". " and "Look at Jimmy". That didn't make it any more
>>>>>> right.
>>>>>> It was wrong. Time to look at the problem by itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or we can use the argument: "Well, I shouldn't be punished since HE
>>>>>> chopped up 31 people and ate them and I just shot only one person".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of miles
>>>>>while
>>>>>listening to music---no incidents.
>>>>
>>>> Anecdote is not proof.
>>>>
>>>> Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid; it's no
>>>> surprise that someone who does this will not understand the risk.
>>>
>>>
>>> Care to cite ANY proof to back up your claim? Or are you just another
>>> nanny-state busybody?
>>
>>It's okay to throw that temper tantrum now. Start screaming, "You can't
>>tell ME what to do!" and throw yourself onto the ground and you will
>>probably miss.
>
> Cycling darwinism...go on, wear those headphones.
>
> Do it before you pass on your genes, please...
Perhaps you should take a flying leap, sir.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Feb 2007 13:07:55
From:
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:08:48 -0500, "Gooserider"
<Gooserider@mouse-potato.com > wrote:
>>>>>>It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of miles
>>>>>>while
>>>>>>listening to music---no incidents.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anecdote is not proof.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid; it's no
>>>>> surprise that someone who does this will not understand the risk.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Care to cite ANY proof to back up your claim? Or are you just another
>>>> nanny-state busybody?
>>>
>>>It's okay to throw that temper tantrum now. Start screaming, "You can't
>>>tell ME what to do!" and throw yourself onto the ground and you will
>>>probably miss.
>>
>> Cycling darwinism...go on, wear those headphones.
>>
>> Do it before you pass on your genes, please...
>
>Perhaps you should take a flying leap, sir.
>
No thank you; I can recognise a hazardous practice.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Feb 2007 12:08:44
From: dgk
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:07:55 GMT, jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com wrote:
>On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:08:48 -0500, "Gooserider"
><Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>>It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of miles
>>>>>>>while
>>>>>>>listening to music---no incidents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anecdote is not proof.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid; it's no
>>>>>> surprise that someone who does this will not understand the risk.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Care to cite ANY proof to back up your claim? Or are you just another
>>>>> nanny-state busybody?
>>>>
>>>>It's okay to throw that temper tantrum now. Start screaming, "You can't
>>>>tell ME what to do!" and throw yourself onto the ground and you will
>>>>probably miss.
>>>
>>> Cycling darwinism...go on, wear those headphones.
>>>
>>> Do it before you pass on your genes, please...
>>
>>Perhaps you should take a flying leap, sir.
>>
>
>No thank you; I can recognise a hazardous practice.
Likely correct. I have no problems with headphones, but a flying leap
is usually not a good thing.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 19 Feb 2007 08:44:35
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
dgk wrote:
:: On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:07:55 GMT, jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com
:: wrote:
::
::: On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:08:48 -0500, "Gooserider"
::: <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com > wrote:
:::
:::
::::::::: It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands
::::::::: of miles while
::::::::: listening to music---no incidents.
::::::::
:::::::: Anecdote is not proof.
::::::::
:::::::: Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid; it's no
:::::::: surprise that someone who does this will not understand the
:::::::: risk.
:::::::
:::::::
::::::: Care to cite ANY proof to back up your claim? Or are you just
::::::: another nanny-state busybody?
::::::
:::::: It's okay to throw that temper tantrum now. Start screaming,
:::::: "You can't tell ME what to do!" and throw yourself onto the
:::::: ground and you will probably miss.
:::::
::::: Cycling darwinism...go on, wear those headphones.
:::::
::::: Do it before you pass on your genes, please...
::::
:::: Perhaps you should take a flying leap, sir.
::::
:::
::: No thank you; I can recognise a hazardous practice.
::
:: Likely correct. I have no problems with headphones, but a flying leap
:: is usually not a good thing.
For jtaylor it would be....
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 13:37:06
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com wrote:
>>On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:21:01 -0500, "Gooserider"
>>Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of miles while
>>listening to music---no incidents.
>
>
> Anecdote is not proof.
>
> Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid;
What's your proof?
Wayne
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 12:47:57
From: Daryl Hunt
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Wayne Pein" <wpein@nc.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45d0b3d4$0$24761$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> jtaylor@NOSPAM.hfx.andara.com wrote:
>
>>>On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:21:01 -0500, "Gooserider"
>>>Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
>>>It's just more nanny state NONSENSE. I have ridden thousands of miles
>>>while listening to music---no incidents.
>>
>>
>> Anecdote is not proof.
>>
>> Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid;
>
> What's your proof?
And having to ask for proof is proof in itself just how stupid it is.
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Date: 12 Feb 2007 18:19:10
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Daryl Hunt wrote:
>>>Anecdote is not proof.
>>>
>>>Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid;
>>
>>What's your proof?
>
>
> And having to ask for proof is proof in itself just how stupid it is.
>
Ignoramus, that doesn't make sense to anyone but you. Fools like you
used to think the world was flat.
Wayne
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 11:29:03
From: Daryl Hunt
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Wayne Pein" <wpein@nc.rr.com > wrote in message
news:45d0f5f1$0$24709$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Daryl Hunt wrote:
>
>>>>Anecdote is not proof.
>>>>
>>>>Wearing headphones while cycling is just plain stupid;
>>>
>>>What's your proof?
>>
>>
>> And having to ask for proof is proof in itself just how stupid it is.
>>
>
> Ignoramus, that doesn't make sense to anyone but you. Fools like you used
> to think the world was flat.
I remember pedaling across the atlantic on the Nina along with the Pinta,
Santa ia and a ship called George. While the rest of us pedaled towards
the earths curvature some stupid cyclists on the George pedaled clean off
the end of the earth into the abyss. And, here you thought, those ships
were powered by Sails. Silly of you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: 11 Feb 2007 21:52:26
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Gooserider wrote:
> "Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com> wrote in message
> news:45cee84a$1@news.i70west.com...
>> "Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
>> news:45cdcef7$0$16997$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> "BobT" <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:arjzh.57293$qy.8057@newsfe16.lga...
>>>> "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> WTF is this...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>>>>>
>>>> My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone
>>>> that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with
>>>> other vehicles is quite foolish.
>>>>
>>>> A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
>>>> injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should only
>>>> get medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would achieve
>>>> the goal of protecting the public at large from this person's poor
>>>> judgement but would not infringe on individual freedom with the only
>>>> goal of "protecting people from themselves".
>>>>
>>>> Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
>>>>
>>>> Ready, set, and go.
>>>>
>>>> BobT
>>>>
>>> Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request negate your
>>> 'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while cycling is already
>>> illegal in most places, but that doesn't mean the activity is "stupid". I
>>> fail to see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the
>>> environment any more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist
>>> in a luxury car with the radio turned up. Cyclists are more likely to be
>>> hit in intersections than from behind. Even IF you happen to hear a car
>>> coming up behind you---what are the chances one can dodge to the right to
>>> avoid the hit?
>> I was a MCylists for decades. The Helmet doesn't stop you from hearing.
>> Most Helmets are designed to allow full hearing. Now, if you make one out
>> of Tin Foil and Superglue then it will obstruct your hearing.
>>
>> Now, if you do have such a helmet that obstructs the hearing it's against
>> the NHTA safety Regs and can get you cited and have your insurance revoked
>> upon a cop noticing.
>>
>> One must be able to hear. Especially if you are on two wheels.
>>
>
> I seriously doubt someone with a full face helmet going 55mph can hear much
> at all. Then there are the Harley guys with loud pipes and half helmets.
> They're effectively deaf. Hearing is overrated----unless you think deaf
> people shouldn't be able to ride bicycles.
>
>
Different scene entirely. On a motorcycle you mainly want to see far
enough ahead to avoid something. The odds of getting rear ended on a
motorcycle at speed are far less than on a bike.
Bill Baka
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| | | | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 10:47:46
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Bill Baka wrote:
:: Gooserider wrote:
::: "Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com > wrote in message
::: news:45cee84a$1@news.i70west.com...
:::: "Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com > wrote in message
:::: news:45cdcef7$0$16997$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
::::: "BobT" <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net > wrote in message
::::: news:arjzh.57293$qy.8057@newsfe16.lga...
:::::: "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com > wrote in message
:::::: news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
::::::: WTF is this...
:::::::
::::::: http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
:::::::
:::::: My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however
:::::: anyone that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a
:::::: road shared with other vehicles is quite foolish.
::::::
:::::: A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires
:::::: anyone injured while engaging in this particularly stupid
:::::: activity should only get medical treatment if they pay for it
:::::: themselves. This would achieve the goal of protecting the
:::::: public at large from this person's poor judgement but would not
:::::: infringe on individual freedom with the only goal of "protecting
:::::: people from themselves".
::::::
:::::: Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
::::::
:::::: Ready, set, and go.
::::::
:::::: BobT
::::::
::::: Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request
::::: negate your 'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while
::::: cycling is already illegal in most places, but that doesn't mean
::::: the activity is "stupid". I fail to see how a cyclist wearing
::::: earphones removes him from the environment any more than a
::::: motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury car with
::::: the radio turned up. Cyclists are more likely to be hit in
::::: intersections than from behind. Even IF you happen to hear a car
::::: coming up behind you---what are the chances one can dodge to the
::::: right to avoid the hit?
:::: I was a MCylists for decades. The Helmet doesn't stop you from
:::: hearing. Most Helmets are designed to allow full hearing. Now, if
:::: you make one out of Tin Foil and Superglue then it will obstruct
:::: your hearing.
::::
:::: Now, if you do have such a helmet that obstructs the hearing it's
:::: against the NHTA safety Regs and can get you cited and have your
:::: insurance revoked upon a cop noticing.
::::
:::: One must be able to hear. Especially if you are on two wheels.
::::
:::
::: I seriously doubt someone with a full face helmet going 55mph can
::: hear much at all. Then there are the Harley guys with loud pipes
::: and half helmets. They're effectively deaf. Hearing is
::: overrated----unless you think deaf people shouldn't be able to ride
::: bicycles.
:::
:::
:: Different scene entirely. On a motorcycle you mainly want to see far
:: enough ahead to avoid something. The odds of getting rear ended on a
:: motorcycle at speed are far less than on a bike.
The odds of getting creamed while on a motorcycle in an intersection are
significant.
:: Bill Baka
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| | | | | | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 17:13:39
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Bill Baka" <bbaka@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:ueMzh.17521$ji1.11960@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
> Gooserider wrote:
>> "Daryl Hunt" <dhunt@colwestnospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:45cee84a$1@news.i70west.com...
>>> "Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
>>> news:45cdcef7$0$16997$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> "BobT" <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:arjzh.57293$qy.8057@newsfe16.lga...
>>>>> "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> WTF is this...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>>>>>>
>>>>> My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone
>>>>> that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with
>>>>> other vehicles is quite foolish.
>>>>>
>>>>> A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
>>>>> injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should
>>>>> only get medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would
>>>>> achieve the goal of protecting the public at large from this person's
>>>>> poor judgement but would not infringe on individual freedom with the
>>>>> only goal of "protecting people from themselves".
>>>>>
>>>>> Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ready, set, and go.
>>>>>
>>>>> BobT
>>>>>
>>>> Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request negate
>>>> your 'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while cycling is already
>>>> illegal in most places, but that doesn't mean the activity is "stupid".
>>>> I fail to see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the
>>>> environment any more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a
>>>> motorist in a luxury car with the radio turned up. Cyclists are more
>>>> likely to be hit in intersections than from behind. Even IF you happen
>>>> to hear a car coming up behind you---what are the chances one can dodge
>>>> to the right to avoid the hit?
>>> I was a MCylists for decades. The Helmet doesn't stop you from hearing.
>>> Most Helmets are designed to allow full hearing. Now, if you make one
>>> out of Tin Foil and Superglue then it will obstruct your hearing.
>>>
>>> Now, if you do have such a helmet that obstructs the hearing it's
>>> against the NHTA safety Regs and can get you cited and have your
>>> insurance revoked upon a cop noticing.
>>>
>>> One must be able to hear. Especially if you are on two wheels.
>>>
>>
>> I seriously doubt someone with a full face helmet going 55mph can hear
>> much at all. Then there are the Harley guys with loud pipes and half
>> helmets. They're effectively deaf. Hearing is overrated----unless you
>> think deaf people shouldn't be able to ride bicycles.
> Different scene entirely. On a motorcycle you mainly want to see far
> enough ahead to avoid something. The odds of getting rear ended on a
> motorcycle at speed are far less than on a bike.
> Bill Baka
And the chances of getting rear ended on a bike are pretty slim, too. One is
far more likely to get hit in an intersection or parking lot.
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 13:39:58
From: BobT
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com > wrote in message
news:45cdcef7$0$16997$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "BobT" <robertleetaylorRe@MoveThisCox.net> wrote in message
> news:arjzh.57293$qy.8057@newsfe16.lga...
>> "Gorgeous George" <gorgeous.georgey@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1171106831.734099.195910@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>>> WTF is this...
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2mea2m
>>>
>> My libertarian streak makes me think this is a bad law, however anyone
>> that wears earphones playing music while cycling on a road shared with
>> other vehicles is quite foolish.
>>
>> A modest proposal: Perhaps there should be a law that requires anyone
>> injured while engaging in this particularly stupid activity should only
>> get medical treatment if they pay for it themselves. This would achieve
>> the goal of protecting the public at large from this person's poor
>> judgement but would not infringe on individual freedom with the only goal
>> of "protecting people from themselves".
>>
>> Please do not respond unless you agree with me.
>>
>> Ready, set, and go.
>>
>> BobT
>>
>
> Sorry, Bob, but I'm going to respond(and doesn't your request negate your
> 'libertarian' streak?). Wearing earphones while cycling is already illegal
> in most places, but that doesn't mean the activity is "stupid". I fail to
> see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the environment any
> more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury car
> with the radio turned up. Cyclists are more likely to be hit in
> intersections than from behind. Even IF you happen to hear a car coming up
> behind you---what are the chances one can dodge to the right to avoid the
> hit?
>
I agree that a motorist in a luxury car is sonically insulated from the
environment as much or more than a cyclist, or a runner for that matter,
wearing headphones playing music. On the other hand, I feel that I need to
protect myself from motorized traffic more when I'm cycling on the road than
when I'm in my luxuary car (2000 Dodge truck with 120K miles and major hail
damage). In the ideal world, motorists would watch out for me better and
always be courteous etc., but in the USA where I ride, there's room for
improvement. I want to use all my senses, including my ears, to be aware of
motor vehicles on the road when I'm riding or running.
I don't think we need a law to enforce my personal view on everyeone else.
My "modest proposal" was somewhat tongue-in-cheek although we all should
realize that behaviors that some think don't have effects on others may have
broader effects on society like paying for head injuries in motorcycle
riders that don't wear helments.
My sarcastic comment after the proposal was intended to provoke debate and
perhaps it worked.
BobT
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| | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 09:49:14
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
BobT wrote:
:: I agree that a motorist in a luxury car is sonically insulated from
:: the environment as much or more than a cyclist, or a runner for that
:: matter, wearing headphones playing music. On the other hand, I feel
:: that I need to protect myself from motorized traffic more when I'm
:: cycling on the road than when I'm in my luxuary car (2000 Dodge
:: truck with 120K miles and major hail damage). In the ideal world,
:: motorists would watch out for me better and always be courteous
:: etc., but in the USA where I ride, there's room for improvement. I
:: want to use all my senses, including my ears, to be aware of motor
:: vehicles on the road when I'm riding or running.
Oh, is anyone trying to stop you from doing any of this? Personally, I can
hear while wearing my buds, but I don't feel I should rely on hearing, so I
use a mirror to gain increased awareness. Any degree in senses due to not
being able to hear is compensated for by knowing that I can't rely on
hearing and thus I pay more attention.
::
:: I don't think we need a law to enforce my personal view on everyeone
:: else. My "modest proposal" was somewhat tongue-in-cheek although we
:: all should realize that behaviors that some think don't have effects
:: on others may have broader effects on society like paying for head
:: injuries in motorcycle riders that don't wear helments.
::
:: My sarcastic comment after the proposal was intended to provoke
:: debate and perhaps it worked.
::
Did you now make a comment about it being stupid to wear buds while cycling?
:: BobT
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 07:59:38
From: Pat
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
I fail to
> see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the environment any
> more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury car
> with the radio turned up.
It's because the motorist is protected by a steel cage and the cyclist is
many times more vulnerable. That's what makes it "stupid."
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| | | | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 07:40:19
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Pat wrote:
:: I fail to
::: see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the
::: environment any more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a
::: motorist in a luxury car with the radio turned up.
::
:: It's because the motorist is protected by a steel cage and the
:: cyclist is many times more vulnerable. That's what makes it "stupid."
Wrong. I've been overtaken by cars on plenty of occasions where I could not
hear them simply because of wind noise. The fact of the matter is, when
you're on a bike, you cannot count on hearing. You must learn to use your
eyes to see what's around you.
|
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 08:57:56
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Pat wrote:
> I fail to
>> see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the environment
>> any more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a
>> luxury car with the radio turned up.
>
> It's because the motorist is protected by a steel cage and the
> cyclist is many times more vulnerable. That's what makes it "stupid."
Ah, so not wearing headphones makes the rider impervious to this imbalance?
I use a mirror, and even that will very likely not prevent me getting hit
from behind should some dolt driver drift to the right. Cars /sound/ the
same whether they're in their lane or about to cream me.
Bill "I use ear buds, bud, but not the type that block out all sound" S.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 14:13:16
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me > wrote in message
news:45cdf996$0$4893$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Pat wrote:
>> I fail to
>>> see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the environment
>>> any more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a
>>> luxury car with the radio turned up.
>>
>> It's because the motorist is protected by a steel cage and the
>> cyclist is many times more vulnerable. That's what makes it "stupid."
>
> Ah, so not wearing headphones makes the rider impervious to this
> imbalance? I use a mirror, and even that will very likely not prevent me
> getting hit from behind should some dolt driver drift to the right. Cars
> /sound/ the same whether they're in their lane or about to cream me.
>
> Bill "I use ear buds, bud, but not the type that block out all sound" S.
Exactly. I'm more likely to get hit in an intersection or parking lot than
from behind. I'm also more able to avoid those hits than I am able to avoid
being hit from behind, iPod or not.
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 18:18:32
From: nash
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
Bill "I use ear buds, bud, but not the type that block out all sound" S.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I do too. They are Sennheiser and are the best and cheapest going.
Talking about the medical system though. How many cars do you see blocking
traffic when an ambulance is coming. I can hear them a mile away but
drivers are always getting in the way. I bet there is a law about that but
no one gets ticketed. It would solve all the manpower problems police have
if they could. Just follow an ambulance all day. hahaha
Who is saving us from them.
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 09:50:30
From: Gooserider
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Pat" <Pat@faraway.com > wrote in message
news:5361efF1r65iqU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> I fail to
>> see how a cyclist wearing earphones removes him from the environment any
>> more than a motorcyclist wearing a helmet, or a motorist in a luxury car
>> with the radio turned up.
>
> It's because the motorist is protected by a steel cage and the cyclist is
> many times more vulnerable. That's what makes it "stupid."
>
>
Moreso than the MOTORCYCLIST? People on Harleys with loud pipes and helmets
can't hear a thing.
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Date: 10 Feb 2007 12:24:36
From: Rich Clark
Subject: Re: New York wants to outlaw iPods for cyclers!?!?
|
"Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com > wrote in message
news:45cddbb1$0$18853$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Moreso than the MOTORCYCLIST? People on Harleys with loud pipes and
> helmets can't hear a thing.
People on motorcycles have already demonstrated their stupidity.
The jury is still out on us.
R
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