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Main
Date: 08 Aug 2007 19:34:52
From:
Subject: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
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I am sick of my dog-slow steel Fuji Touring. I'd like to get a real
road bike, but still need to commute 7 miles. Anyone have any thoughts
on bikes to try?
Lots of times the commute is my most frequent ride. I squeeze in about
500-700 additional miles on weekends & charity rides.
I have $300 coming to me in gift cards for the LBS that sells
Cannondale and Specialized. So I'd rather try there first. (This is
the Twin Cities' Erik's chain.)
I test-rode the Specialized TriCross. I like the front & rear rack
mounts, matte paint job, saddle, and new Tiagra shifter design. I
didn't like the weight, and the ride wasn't a dramatic upgrade from my
Fuji. I haven't tried it with clipless pedals, but there wasn't much
of a "snap" to it.
They have no Specialized Allez. Does that have rack mounts?
I won't be carrying more than 50 - 75 lbs of cargo. Also, I probably
will never use a front rack, and will probably never do a loaded tour.
Opinions / reccomendations?
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Date: 28 Sep 2007 22:20:38
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
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On Sep 28, 8:27 pm, smokeystrodt...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 9, 4:24 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 2:06 pm, Steve Gravrock <use...@sdg.users.panix.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 2007-08-09, bryanschol...@gmail.com <bryanschol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Yet on 95% of my loaded commute rides, it's only about 20-25 max lbs
> > > > of clothes, etc. 50 lbs on a severely loaded day, which I can shift
> > > > over to my vintage Rockhopper mountain bike.
>
> > > Have you actually weighed your typical load? If not, do so. You may be
> > > surprised. 20 lbs is a lot of clothes. For reference, my typical
> > > commuting load is less than 10 lbs including clothes, toolkit, and
> > > lunch. Two full panniers of groceries usually weigh in around 30-35
> > > lbs. I would consider that to be about the upper limit of what I'd want
> > > to have on the rear rack of a short-chainstay sport bike.
>
> > > I'd suggest throwing together some typical loads and weighing them if
> > > you haven't already done so. It may make a big difference in your
> > > strategy.
>
> > Amen to that. Weigh your load and know for sure. A hugely loaded tour,
> > with a week's worth of clothes, tent and sleeping bag, cookstove,
> > food, extra shoes (I took both Lake SPD sandals and Cannondale touring
> > shoes), A repair kit including five tubes, a spare tire, and spare
> > chain, and about 15 other things I can't remember totalled less than
> > 60 lbs. and it rode like a tank. Bike plus gear was about 92 or so on
> > my Surly Long Haul trucker with 35mm tires.
>
> > I would not trust 50 lbs on a converted sport bike, period. 40, just
> > maybe. It would effect handling too much, and with 28 mm tires
> > (probably the biggest that would fit between the stays and in the
> > fork) pinch flats would be a concern. Forget 23s.
>
> > For what it's worth, your dog-slow steel Fuji Touring is more of a
> > "real road bike" than half of the stuff in LBSes these days. [/
> > soapbox]- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> "A repair kit including five tubes"
>
> Wow! Hank, you get a lot of flats?
>
> Smokey
I didn't get any on my tour this summer. If I'd only carried one or
two tubes, I'm sure I'd have had three unrepairable flats.
Cheap insurance, if you can find a place to carry them.
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Date: 28 Sep 2007 20:27:13
From:
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
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On Aug 9, 4:24 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> On Aug 9, 2:06 pm, Steve Gravrock <use...@sdg.users.panix.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2007-08-09, bryanschol...@gmail.com <bryanschol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Yet on 95% of my loaded commute rides, it's only about 20-25 max lbs
> > > of clothes, etc. 50 lbs on a severely loaded day, which I can shift
> > > over to my vintage Rockhopper mountain bike.
>
> > Have you actually weighed your typical load? If not, do so. You may be
> > surprised. 20 lbs is a lot of clothes. For reference, my typical
> > commuting load is less than 10 lbs including clothes, toolkit, and
> > lunch. Two full panniers of groceries usually weigh in around 30-35
> > lbs. I would consider that to be about the upper limit of what I'd want
> > to have on the rear rack of a short-chainstay sport bike.
>
> > I'd suggest throwing together some typical loads and weighing them if
> > you haven't already done so. It may make a big difference in your
> > strategy.
>
> Amen to that. Weigh your load and know for sure. A hugely loaded tour,
> with a week's worth of clothes, tent and sleeping bag, cookstove,
> food, extra shoes (I took both Lake SPD sandals and Cannondale touring
> shoes), A repair kit including five tubes, a spare tire, and spare
> chain, and about 15 other things I can't remember totalled less than
> 60 lbs. and it rode like a tank. Bike plus gear was about 92 or so on
> my Surly Long Haul trucker with 35mm tires.
>
> I would not trust 50 lbs on a converted sport bike, period. 40, just
> maybe. It would effect handling too much, and with 28 mm tires
> (probably the biggest that would fit between the stays and in the
> fork) pinch flats would be a concern. Forget 23s.
>
> For what it's worth, your dog-slow steel Fuji Touring is more of a
> "real road bike" than half of the stuff in LBSes these days. [/
> soapbox]- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
"A repair kit including five tubes"
Wow! Hank, you get a lot of flats?
Smokey
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 19:53:03
From: bryanska
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
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Not that anyone cares, but...
Bought a 2007 Specialized Tricross Comp.
LIGHT YEARS faster than my Fuji Touring. On the first day of riding, I
got caught in rain on my commute home. So I sprinted, and made it home
in RECORD time. Wow, I never thought I could commute so fast.
The high flange hubs are super trick. The 10sp rear Ultegra is out of
tune even brand new, which makes me nervous about keeping it shifting
well.
A standard rack went on just fine. Swapped on some road tires, and
archived the 32C cross tires. Shallow-drop bars are a modern miracle;
now I am comfortable in all positions.
One thing I noticed - the carbon stays & fork and Zertz inserts absorb
the vibration of a brick street even better than my old bike. And it
was a lazy steel frame with squishy Top Touring tires.
So, for sale is one Fuji Touring!
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 18:21:33
From:
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
> But these are all small effects. In each case, the weight, mass, or
> aerodynamic drag of the bike is dwarfed by that of the rider. And
> those narrow, high pressure tires may be worse, not better, if the
> road has significant roughness.
>
> The more lively handling is another matter, though. It will probably
> be noticeable. And it may subconsciously inspire a rider to put out
> more power. But it doesn't really make the bike itself roll faster.
I feel held back by the geometry. Even with the seat up high, I still
don't feel like I am transferring power as efficiently as I did with
my Schwinn Tempo. The seating position relative to my legs can be
better. And the wheelbase feels very long.
Some parts are old-tech too. The bottom bracket, for example, is very
wide and square taper. I'd like the pedals closer to the frame. The
cranks are super huge and I know they are heavy. The wheels, while
being strong, are flexy. The weight of all this is substantial, about
25 lbs. While I know taking a poop will drop a few pounds, the bike
doesn't flick over or accelerate quickly.
And my entire commute is grades. I have decent legs, I think, and I
want a new bike to match.
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 21:55:36
From: landotter
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
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On Aug 8, 9:34 pm, bryanschol...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am sick of my dog-slow steel Fuji Touring. I'd like to get a real
> road bike, but still need to commute 7 miles. Anyone have any thoughts
> on bikes to try?
With better tires it will feel faster, though what you're perceiving
is probably the slow handling of the relaxed head angle. It's all in
your head. Spend the $300 on some wheel parts and learn to build
yourself some sweet and light wheels. ;-)
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 14:29:02
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
On Aug 9, 11:35 am, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 19:34:52 -0700, bryanscholtes wrote:
> > I am sick of my dog-slow steel Fuji Touring. I'd like to get a real
> > road bike, but still need to commute 7 miles. Anyone have any thoughts
> > on bikes to try?
>
> <SNIP>
>
> > Opinions / reccomendations?
>
> Thought: A faster rider means a faster bike.
>
What's that quote (possibly apocryphally) attributed to Eddy?
"Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades."
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 14:24:46
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
On Aug 9, 2:06 pm, Steve Gravrock <use...@sdg.users.panix.com > wrote:
> On 2007-08-09, bryanschol...@gmail.com <bryanschol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yet on 95% of my loaded commute rides, it's only about 20-25 max lbs
> > of clothes, etc. 50 lbs on a severely loaded day, which I can shift
> > over to my vintage Rockhopper mountain bike.
>
> Have you actually weighed your typical load? If not, do so. You may be
> surprised. 20 lbs is a lot of clothes. For reference, my typical
> commuting load is less than 10 lbs including clothes, toolkit, and
> lunch. Two full panniers of groceries usually weigh in around 30-35
> lbs. I would consider that to be about the upper limit of what I'd want
> to have on the rear rack of a short-chainstay sport bike.
>
> I'd suggest throwing together some typical loads and weighing them if
> you haven't already done so. It may make a big difference in your
> strategy.
Amen to that. Weigh your load and know for sure. A hugely loaded tour,
with a week's worth of clothes, tent and sleeping bag, cookstove,
food, extra shoes (I took both Lake SPD sandals and Cannondale touring
shoes), A repair kit including five tubes, a spare tire, and spare
chain, and about 15 other things I can't remember totalled less than
60 lbs. and it rode like a tank. Bike plus gear was about 92 or so on
my Surly Long Haul trucker with 35mm tires.
I would not trust 50 lbs on a converted sport bike, period. 40, just
maybe. It would effect handling too much, and with 28 mm tires
(probably the biggest that would fit between the stays and in the
fork) pinch flats would be a concern. Forget 23s.
For what it's worth, your dog-slow steel Fuji Touring is more of a
"real road bike" than half of the stuff in LBSes these days. [/
soapbox]
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 14:02:50
From:
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
On Aug 9, 2:30 pm, Booker C. Bense <bbense+rec.bicycles.misc.Aug.
09...@telemark.slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> In article <1186666779.328731.88...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
> Art Harris <n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >bryanschol...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> I am sick of my dog-slow steel Fuji Touring. I'd like to get a real
> >> road bike, but still need to commute 7 miles.
>
> >It's not about the bike. I lighter bike will not be noticeably faster
> >on the flats, and only a little faster climbing hills. Sounds to me
> >like the Fuji is appropriate for your kind of riding.
>
> I had an interesting conversation with a local bike shop owner
> the other day about this and I think it bears repeating. Touring
> bikes aren't really slow, but they do have slow handling.
>
> When people say they want a "fast bike" more often than not what
> they really mean is a faster handling bike.
I agree, at least for the most part.
A "fast" road bike might actually roll a bit faster for the same power
input in a few conditions. One might be on very, very smooth
pavement, where its narrower tires actually might have a bit less
rolling resistance. Another might be climbing a hill, where the
lighter bike would subtract a tiny percentage of the total weight.
Another might be when riding into a significant headwind, or otherwise
moving through the air really fast, where a racing bike might be a
tiny bit more aerodynamic. And on sudden acceleration, where the
lighter wheels and lower mass of the bike allows it to respond
slightly quicker.
But these are all small effects. In each case, the weight, mass, or
aerodynamic drag of the bike is dwarfed by that of the rider. And
those narrow, high pressure tires may be worse, not better, if the
road has significant roughness.
The more lively handling is another matter, though. It will probably
be noticeable. And it may subconsciously inspire a rider to put out
more power. But it doesn't really make the bike itself roll faster.
But what all this has to do with a person carrying a 50 pound load to
work, I can't imagine! Sounds to me like that load is the place to
save weight and gain speed!
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 18:35:24
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear
|
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 19:34:52 -0700, bryanscholtes wrote:
> I am sick of my dog-slow steel Fuji Touring. I'd like to get a real
> road bike, but still need to commute 7 miles. Anyone have any thoughts
> on bikes to try?
<SNIP >
> Opinions / reccomendations?
Thought: A faster rider means a faster bike.
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 07:10:56
From:
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
> It's also enough weight that, when carrying it, the difference between
> a 20 pound road bike and a 30 pound touring bike won't mean much.
>
> I'd keep the touring bike with its rack for use when doing a loaded
> commute, and buy a road bike to use for those times when you don't
> need the rack.
I agree that the weight won't make much of a difference.
Yet on 95% of my loaded commute rides, it's only about 20-25 max lbs
of clothes, etc. 50 lbs on a severely loaded day, which I can shift
over to my vintage Rockhopper mountain bike.
Since $$ is always a factor, I'd like to take the $300-350 from
selling the Touring and apply it to a faster bike overall.
So the Pilot looks like a contender if I can lose the $300 gift card
discount, or the base Allez if I can live with lower-end components.
How about anything from Cannondale?
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 21:06:02
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
On 2007-08-09, bryanscholtes@gmail.com <bryanscholtes@gmail.com > wrote:
> Yet on 95% of my loaded commute rides, it's only about 20-25 max lbs
> of clothes, etc. 50 lbs on a severely loaded day, which I can shift
> over to my vintage Rockhopper mountain bike.
Have you actually weighed your typical load? If not, do so. You may be
surprised. 20 lbs is a lot of clothes. For reference, my typical
commuting load is less than 10 lbs including clothes, toolkit, and
lunch. Two full panniers of groceries usually weigh in around 30-35
lbs. I would consider that to be about the upper limit of what I'd want
to have on the rear rack of a short-chainstay sport bike.
I'd suggest throwing together some typical loads and weighing them if
you haven't already done so. It may make a big difference in your
strategy.
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 07:06:56
From:
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
On Aug 8, 11:13 pm, Steve Gravrock <use...@sdg.users.panix.com > wrote:
> On 2007-08-09, bryanschol...@gmail.com <bryanschol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I won't be carrying more than 50 - 75 lbs of cargo. Also, I probably
> > will never use a front rack, and will probably never do a loaded tour.
>
> Whoops. I skimmed over that part.
>
> Depending on how solid those numbers are, you may need to reconsider
> your options. Most inexpensive rear racks have a load limit around 50
> lbs. If you need to carry more, you'll have to spend more. Also, even
> at 50 lbs you might want longer chainstays than most sport bikes have,
> especially if you climb steep hills.
Maybe 50-75 is a bit much. Maybe 50 is a more accurate limit.
But no, I don't think I want a low spoke count, just to be safe.
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 09:39:57
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 - Global Warming Edition ®
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
<bryanscholtes@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1186626892.252764.87540@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>I am sick of my dog-slow steel Fuji Touring. I'd like to get a real
> road bike, but still need to commute 7 miles. Anyone have any thoughts
> on bikes to try?
>
> Lots of times the commute is my most frequent ride. I squeeze in about
> 500-700 additional miles on weekends & charity rides.
>
> I have $300 coming to me in gift cards for the LBS that sells
> Cannondale and Specialized. So I'd rather try there first. (This is
> the Twin Cities' Erik's chain.)
>
> I test-rode the Specialized TriCross. I like the front & rear rack
> mounts, matte paint job, saddle, and new Tiagra shifter design. I
> didn't like the weight, and the ride wasn't a dramatic upgrade from my
> Fuji. I haven't tried it with clipless pedals, but there wasn't much
> of a "snap" to it.
>
> They have no Specialized Allez. Does that have rack mounts?
>
> I won't be carrying more than 50 - 75 lbs of cargo. Also, I probably
> will never use a front rack, and will probably never do a loaded tour.
>
> Opinions / reccomendations?
>
Hell, 50 - 75 lbs of cargo to me IS loaded touring! There is no way in hell
I'm putting that kind of extra weight on a "true" road bike.
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 06:39:39
From: Art Harris
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
bryanschol...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am sick of my dog-slow steel Fuji Touring. I'd like to get a real
> road bike, but still need to commute 7 miles.
>
It's not about the bike. I lighter bike will not be noticeably faster
on the flats, and only a little faster climbing hills. Sounds to me
like the Fuji is appropriate for your kind of riding.
> Lots of times the commute is my most frequent ride. I squeeze in about
> 500-700 additional miles on weekends & charity rides.
>
You might want to keep the Fuji for commuting, and get a more sporty
bike for the weekend/charity rides. But don't expect a huge difference
Art Harris
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 18:30:36
From: Booker C. Bense
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
In article <1186666779.328731.88570@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com >,
Art Harris <n2ah@hotmail.com > wrote:
>bryanschol...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I am sick of my dog-slow steel Fuji Touring. I'd like to get a real
>> road bike, but still need to commute 7 miles.
>>
>
>It's not about the bike. I lighter bike will not be noticeably faster
>on the flats, and only a little faster climbing hills. Sounds to me
>like the Fuji is appropriate for your kind of riding.
>
>
I had an interesting conversation with a local bike shop owner
the other day about this and I think it bears repeating. Touring
bikes aren't really slow, but they do have slow handling.
When people say they want a "fast bike" more often than not what
they really mean is a faster handling bike.
_ Booker C. Bense
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 06:08:21
From: rdclark
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
On Aug 8, 10:34 pm, bryanschol...@gmail.com wrote:
> I won't be carrying more than 50 - 75 lbs of cargo. Also, I probably
> will never use a front rack, and will probably never do a loaded tour.
>
> Opinions / reccomendations?
That's a lot of weight to add over the back wheel of a road bike, with
skinny tires and low spoke-count wheels.
It's also enough weight that, when carrying it, the difference between
a 20 pound road bike and a 30 pound touring bike won't mean much.
I'd keep the touring bike with its rack for use when doing a loaded
commute, and buy a road bike to use for those times when you don't
need the rack.
r
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 04:13:44
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
On 2007-08-09, bryanscholtes@gmail.com <bryanscholtes@gmail.com > wrote:
> I won't be carrying more than 50 - 75 lbs of cargo. Also, I probably
> will never use a front rack, and will probably never do a loaded tour.
Whoops. I skimmed over that part.
Depending on how solid those numbers are, you may need to reconsider
your options. Most inexpensive rear racks have a load limit around 50
lbs. If you need to carry more, you'll have to spend more. Also, even
at 50 lbs you might want longer chainstays than most sport bikes have,
especially if you climb steep hills.
|
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 04:07:29
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
On 2007-08-09, bryanscholtes@gmail.com <bryanscholtes@gmail.com > wrote:
> I am sick of my dog-slow steel Fuji Touring. I'd like to get a real
> road bike, but still need to commute 7 miles. Anyone have any thoughts
> on bikes to try?
[...]
> I test-rode the Specialized TriCross. I like the front & rear rack
> mounts, matte paint job, saddle, and new Tiagra shifter design. I
> didn't like the weight, and the ride wasn't a dramatic upgrade from my
> Fuji. I haven't tried it with clipless pedals, but there wasn't much
> of a "snap" to it.
>
> They have no Specialized Allez. Does that have rack mounts?
It probably depends on the model. Looking at the pictures on
Specialized's websites, the all-aluminum base model clearly has eyelets
at the dropouts and near the top of the seatstays. The models with carbon
seatstays appear not to. If you want Tiagra/105 components you'll be
getting the Allez Elite which has carbon stays.
Since this bike will be a commuter, it's worth thinking about fenders
as well. I'm not sure if the Allez will take them or not. The model
from a couple of years back had pretty tight tire clearance.
If you strike out at the Specialized/Cannondale shop that you have a
gift certificate for, take a look at the Trek Pilot 1.2. It's somewhat
similar to the Allez Elite Triple but you give up the carbon seatstays
in return for rack mounts, fender clearance, and $100 or so in savings.
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 18:22:10
From: Booker C. Bense
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
In article <slrnfbl4o1.9ck.usenet@panix3.panix.com >,
Steve Gravrock <usenet@sdg.users.panix.com > wrote:
>On 2007-08-09, bryanscholtes@gmail.com <bryanscholtes@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am sick of my dog-slow steel Fuji Touring. I'd like to get a real
>> road bike, but still need to commute 7 miles. Anyone have any thoughts
>> on bikes to try?
>
>>
>> They have no Specialized Allez. Does that have rack mounts?
>
>It probably depends on the model. Looking at the pictures on
>Specialized's websites, the all-aluminum base model clearly has eyelets
>at the dropouts and near the top of the seatstays. The models with carbon
>seatstays appear not to. If you want Tiagra/105 components you'll be
>getting the Allez Elite which has carbon stays.
I'd think it'd be impossible to tell from the images on
specialized's web site. Look for two small bolts on the aluminum part the
carbon seatstay fits into, and two more bolts where the carbon
seatstay attaches to the dropouts. That's the rack mounts for my
Sequoia Elite ( which appears to be no longer made ).
_ Booker C. Bense
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Date: 09 Aug 2007 03:22:46
From:
Subject: Re: New bike fever - want something fast, Tiagra or 105, with rear rack mount
|
bryanscholtes@gmail.com wrote:
> They have no Specialized Allez. Does that have rack mounts?
Hey, a fellow heretic! I have an Allez, and it has a rear rack.
Bill
__o
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