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Main
Date: 07 Dec 2006 06:56:30
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Opinion Wanted
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I got asked to translate the name of the bike club into English.
Probably because the name of the bike club is something tremendously
weird and none of the English speaking Chinese people in the club have
been willing to tackle it for fear that they'd get the English all
wrong.
=E5=A4=A9=E6=B6=AF=E9=AA=91=E9=A9=B4
Tianya Qilu
Literal translation of tianya is "boundaries of the universe" or "end
of the sky." Sometimes "horizon." It's one of the poetic names that
has been given to Hainan for centuries, because, as the southernmost
province of China, Hainan is clearly the farthest outpost of
civilization and the civilized world.
The somewhat easier qilu literally translates as "riders of donkeys"
When I asked why the bike club was called Tianya Qilu (in the hopes of
finding some easier way of translating the name) I got given a magazine
article where it explained that the tianya is for Hainan because Hainan
is a natural paradise, and the donkey riding is because the members of
the bike club had the spirit of the knights of olde and donkeys are
probably at least as hard if not harder to ride than mountain bikes.
(Last I checked knights rode horses but hey...)
We've already got the staid boring normal name for the Hainan
Provincial Cycling Assosciation, which, although it is based out of the
same bike shop and run by the same people as the bike club is not
exactly the same as the bike club. Really quite a different thing. Or
so they tell me. The bike club is the bike club, the cycling
assosciation is the cycling assosciation and never the twain shall meet
unless it's over tea and cookies at the shop across the street.
The literal translation "Donkey Riders at the End of the Universe" has
already been shot down on the grounds of being too long. Can I come up
with something with some of the poetry of the original?
Some of the options I've come up with are:
Paradise Donkeys Cycling Club
Paradise Knights Cycling Club
Horizon Knights Cycling Club
with Horizon Donkeys just being waaaay too weird and Paradise Donkeys
probably being the best of the three. So, what do you people think?
Should I run "Paradise Donkeys Cycling Club" by laobanniang or shall I
just slink into a corner and pretend to forget that they asked me?
-M
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Date: 18 Dec 2006 08:47:44
From: John Kane
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
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Werehatrack wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2006 11:13:48 -0800, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
> <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Werehatrack wrote:
> >> Expanding something I should have mentioned in the othe rpost...
> >>
> >> One of the great traditions of English is outright blatant theft from
> >> other languages. Thus, the name Ecurie Tianya honors English-speaking
> >> tradition by hijacking a word from Chinese and combining it with one
> >> already assimilated.
> >
> >Other languages borrow words. English does not so much borrow words as
> >lurk in dark alleys, hit other languages over the head, and go looking
> >through their coat pockets in search of any pieces of spare gram
> >that might have accidentally been left lying about where just anyone
> >could find them. Unfortunately for those of us blessed enough to have
> >been given English as a native tongue, it is in the habit of taking
> >everything it finds, including the lint and unsmoked cigarette ends.
> >
> >[broadly paraphrased from someone famous... probably Terry Pratchett]
>
> James Nicoll, actually, and he's only famous within a very select
> group of which I'm not directly a member.
Thanks to both of you. I had lost that quotation and could not find it
again.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 07:04:56
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
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Stephen Harding wrote:
> Cathy Kearns wrote:
>
> > My favorite was working with some new to the country engineers when Liberace
> > died. They wanted to know who was Liberace and why was he famous. Hmmm. I
> > would imagine they would now be asking the same questions about Paris
> > Hilton.
>
> I'm US born and bred and *I* ask the same thing about Paris Hilton!
It's a hotel. In Paris. Right?
-M
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 09:45:02
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
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On 12 Dec 2006 07:04:56 -0800, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
<ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > may have said:
>
>Stephen Harding wrote:
>> Cathy Kearns wrote:
>>
>> > My favorite was working with some new to the country engineers when Liberace
>> > died. They wanted to know who was Liberace and why was he famous. Hmmm. I
>> > would imagine they would now be asking the same questions about Paris
>> > Hilton.
>>
>> I'm US born and bred and *I* ask the same thing about Paris Hilton!
>
>It's a hotel. In Paris. Right?
It's also a moneyed person of the female and indiscreet persuasion.
Some find her decorative; many find her indecorous.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 22:51:31
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
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Werehatrack wrote:
> On 12 Dec 2006 07:04:56 -0800, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
> <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com> may have said:
>
>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>> Cathy Kearns wrote:
>>>
>>>> My favorite was working with some new to the country engineers when Liberace
>>>> died. They wanted to know who was Liberace and why was he famous. Hmmm. I
>>>> would imagine they would now be asking the same questions about Paris
>>>> Hilton.
>>> I'm US born and bred and *I* ask the same thing about Paris Hilton!
>> It's a hotel. In Paris. Right?
>
> It's also a moneyed person of the female and indiscreet persuasion.
> Some find her decorative; many find her indecorous.
>
I find her hot but way to used merchandise for my taste. After 50+ one
night stands I would be afraid of catching something other than Paparazzi.
Bill Baka
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Date: 10 Dec 2006 20:42:59
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
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"k Hickey =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA
"
> "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"k Hickey D=A1=E4=A6=CC=A8=A4=A1=EAo
> >"
> >> "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> >By the way, if you don't mind me saying so guv'ner, those pretty shoes
> >> >of yours is looking a bit worn around the cleat. Would a fancy chap
> >> >like you really be wanting them? I'd give you a good price for them.
> >> >Always wanted my own pair of shoes with a nice cleat like those, I di=
d=2E
> >>
> >> Heh heh heh... you pull that dialect out of the hat and your bilingual
> >> friends are gonna be puzzled. I remember giving one of my Chinese
> >> friends 'The Deerslayer' - I was answering archaic language questions
> >> for weeks. ;-)
> >
> >It didn't take me very long in China to learn to be very careful with
> >the use of (or more precisely the complete and utter non-use of) slang
> >and dialect that couldn't be easily explained.
>
> I still remember my wife telling our driver (the company we worked for
> wouldn't let us drive in China) an elephant joke. She figured she had
> a pool of a billion or so people who had never heard any of these
> "classic jokes" from a million years ago, so might as well take one or
> two out and dust 'em off...
>
> "What time is it when an elephant sits on your fence?".
>
> I cringed from the back seat - I knew this wasn't going to go well...
>
> "Time to get a new fence".
>
> Xiao Wang looked puzzled. "I don't get it"...
>
> The next painful 30 minutes of the drive were spent trying to somehow
> work the joke into some sort of tortured version that might make sense
> to him (to no avail).
>
> OTOH, Xiao Wang amazed us once by reciting verbatim the Gettysburg
> address (for those of you outside the US, a famous 2-minute speech
> given by Abraham Lincoln, US president honoring the war dead at a huge
> Civil War battlefield). It seems he had learned it in school, though
> he had no idea what large parts of it actually meant.
Right now my only student is the manager of the bike shop. It was a
bit of an effort on my part to convince him that we would not be
memorizing the texts we read and if he read that paragraph one more
time I would not only consider not giving him any more English classes
but may also attempt to strangle him.
That's the way he originally learned English. Which is part of why he
can't actually speak English.
Our original textbook "Beginning Bicycle Racing" was discarded by me on
the grounds that it was written by someone whose job was high school
English and whose hobby was bike racing. Way too bloody many pretty
words.
Our current textbook (also 70s vintage, also free) is "Winning Bicycle
Racing" and since it was written by someone whose job was bikes the
only difficult bits are the overly technical pieces of jargonese where
I need to have my student explain them to me cause I don't understand
the English.
-M
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Date: 10 Dec 2006 23:17:59
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
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On 10 Dec 2006 20:42:59 -0800, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
<ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > may have said:
>Our current textbook (also 70s vintage, also free) is "Winning Bicycle
>Racing" and since it was written by someone whose job was bikes the
>only difficult bits are the overly technical pieces of jargonese where
>I need to have my student explain them to me cause I don't understand
>the English.
Thus you are bringing into play one of the most effective teaching
tools available; get the student involved in the process of explaining
the subject. Sounds like you both get to learn something; that's a
good deal.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
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Date: 09 Dec 2006 07:58:47
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
"k Hickey =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA
"
> "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote:
> >By the way, if you don't mind me saying so guv'ner, those pretty shoes
> >of yours is looking a bit worn around the cleat. Would a fancy chap
> >like you really be wanting them? I'd give you a good price for them.
> >Always wanted my own pair of shoes with a nice cleat like those, I did.
>
> Heh heh heh... you pull that dialect out of the hat and your bilingual
> friends are gonna be puzzled. I remember giving one of my Chinese
> friends 'The Deerslayer' - I was answering archaic language questions
> for weeks. ;-)
It didn't take me very long in China to learn to be very careful with
the use of (or more precisely the complete and utter non-use of) slang
and dialect that couldn't be easily explained.
My favorite archaic language moment was when I assigned the first
stanza of Chaucer's "To Rosemounde" in the original middle English to
some classes of advanced students as an exercise in puzzling out
misspelled words.
Madame, ye ben of al beaute shryne
As fer as cercled is the mapamounde,
For as the cristal glorious ye shyne,
And lyke ruby ben your chekes rounde.
Therwith ye ben so mery and so jocounde
That at a revel whan that I see you daunce,
It is an oynement unto my wounde,
Thogh ye to me ne do no daliaunce.
First we figured out what each word was, then we figured out the
approximate meaning of each word, then they came up with their own
modern English sentences about what the poem meant. Then, I told them
what Rosemounde's name meant.
-M
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Date: 10 Dec 2006 07:41:29
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
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"ian.rosenberg@gmail.com" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:
>"k Hickey дµÀ£º
>"
>> "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >By the way, if you don't mind me saying so guv'ner, those pretty shoes
>> >of yours is looking a bit worn around the cleat. Would a fancy chap
>> >like you really be wanting them? I'd give you a good price for them.
>> >Always wanted my own pair of shoes with a nice cleat like those, I did.
>>
>> Heh heh heh... you pull that dialect out of the hat and your bilingual
>> friends are gonna be puzzled. I remember giving one of my Chinese
>> friends 'The Deerslayer' - I was answering archaic language questions
>> for weeks. ;-)
>
>It didn't take me very long in China to learn to be very careful with
>the use of (or more precisely the complete and utter non-use of) slang
>and dialect that couldn't be easily explained.
I still remember my wife telling our driver (the company we worked for
wouldn't let us drive in China) an elephant joke. She figured she had
a pool of a billion or so people who had never heard any of these
"classic jokes" from a million years ago, so might as well take one or
two out and dust 'em off...
"What time is it when an elephant sits on your fence?".
I cringed from the back seat - I knew this wasn't going to go well...
"Time to get a new fence".
Xiao Wang looked puzzled. "I don't get it"...
The next painful 30 minutes of the drive were spent trying to somehow
work the joke into some sort of tortured version that might make sense
to him (to no avail).
OTOH, Xiao Wang amazed us once by reciting verbatim the Gettysburg
address (for those of you outside the US, a famous 2-minute speech
given by Abraham Lincoln, US president honoring the war dead at a huge
Civil War battlefield). It seems he had learned it in school, though
he had no idea what large parts of it actually meant.
k Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 16:29:16
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
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k Hickey wrote:
> I still remember my wife telling our driver (the company we worked for
> wouldn't let us drive in China) an elephant joke. She figured she had
> a pool of a billion or so people who had never heard any of these
> "classic jokes" from a million years ago, so might as well take one or
> two out and dust 'em off...
>
> "What time is it when an elephant sits on your fence?".
>
> I cringed from the back seat - I knew this wasn't going to go well...
>
> "Time to get a new fence".
>
> Xiao Wang looked puzzled. "I don't get it"...
>
> The next painful 30 minutes of the drive were spent trying to somehow
> work the joke into some sort of tortured version that might make sense
> to him (to no avail).
I remember being approached by Japanese school kids during
the time I lived there, asking questions about English usage
and why it was used.
We take these things for granted living in the language so
it's always interesting having a look at it from outside
that culture.
Please explain "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers..."
What is meaning of "tongue twister"?
Later, while working aboard a Japanese fishing vessel, the
First Officer would practice his English with me by asking,
"Do you like sports?", and "Have you brothers or sisters?",
followed by "How big your feet?" and finishing up with "Have
you whorehouse in New York?"
Probably some sort of "Fisherman's Guide to English".
SMH
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 21:46:46
From: Cathy Kearns
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
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"Stephen Harding" <smharding16@msn.com > wrote in message
news:wHffh.3045$Et5.2021@trndny07...
> We take these things for granted living in the language so
> it's always interesting having a look at it from outside
> that culture.
>
> Please explain "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers..."
> What is meaning of "tongue twister"?
My favorite was working with some new to the country engineers when Liberace
died. They wanted to know who was Liberace and why was he famous. Hmmm. I
would imagine they would now be asking the same questions about Paris
Hilton.
|
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 22:32:04
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Cathy Kearns wrote:
> My favorite was working with some new to the country engineers when Liberace
> died. They wanted to know who was Liberace and why was he famous. Hmmm. I
> would imagine they would now be asking the same questions about Paris
> Hilton.
I'm US born and bred and *I* ask the same thing about Paris Hilton!
SMH
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 16:56:05
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
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On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:32:04 GMT, Stephen Harding
<smharding16@msn.com > may have said:
>Cathy Kearns wrote:
>
>> My favorite was working with some new to the country engineers when Liberace
>> died. They wanted to know who was Liberace and why was he famous. Hmmm. I
>> would imagine they would now be asking the same questions about Paris
>> Hilton.
>
>I'm US born and bred and *I* ask the same thing about Paris Hilton!
You're not the only one.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
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Date: 09 Dec 2006 07:44:21
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
"Werehatrack =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA
"
> On 8 Dec 2006 11:13:48 -0800, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
> <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Werehatrack wrote:
> >> Expanding something I should have mentioned in the othe rpost...
> >>
> >> One of the great traditions of English is outright blatant theft from
> >> other languages. Thus, the name Ecurie Tianya honors English-speaking
> >> tradition by hijacking a word from Chinese and combining it with one
> >> already assimilated.
> >
> >Other languages borrow words. English does not so much borrow words as
> >lurk in dark alleys, hit other languages over the head, and go looking
> >through their coat pockets in search of any pieces of spare gram
> >that might have accidentally been left lying about where just anyone
> >could find them. Unfortunately for those of us blessed enough to have
> >been given English as a native tongue, it is in the habit of taking
> >everything it finds, including the lint and unsmoked cigarette ends.
> >
> >[broadly paraphrased from someone famous... probably Terry Pratchett]
>
> James Nicoll, actually, and he's only famous within a very select
> group of which I'm not directly a member.
I'd _like_ to claim that I knew it was by James Nicoll and was
deliberately misattributing it because of the longstanding nature of
that quote being misattributed (most famously to Booker T Washington)
but I goofed. I did, however, originally read it on alt.fan.pratchett
if that counts for anything towards my misattribution.
Anyways, the exact quote:
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language
is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't
just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other
languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle
their pockets for new vocabulary."=20
- James D. Nicoll
-M
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 17:49:04
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
"ian.rosenberg@gmail.com" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:
>I got asked to translate the name of the bike club into English.
>
>Probably because the name of the bike club is something tremendously
>weird and none of the English speaking Chinese people in the club have
>been willing to tackle it for fear that they'd get the English all
>wrong.
>
>????
>
>Tianya Qilu
Riders of (on?) the Edge?
k Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 11:13:48
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Werehatrack wrote:
> Expanding something I should have mentioned in the othe rpost...
>
> One of the great traditions of English is outright blatant theft from
> other languages. Thus, the name Ecurie Tianya honors English-speaking
> tradition by hijacking a word from Chinese and combining it with one
> already assimilated.
Other languages borrow words. English does not so much borrow words as
lurk in dark alleys, hit other languages over the head, and go looking
through their coat pockets in search of any pieces of spare gram
that might have accidentally been left lying about where just anyone
could find them. Unfortunately for those of us blessed enough to have
been given English as a native tongue, it is in the habit of taking
everything it finds, including the lint and unsmoked cigarette ends.
[broadly paraphrased from someone famous... probably Terry Pratchett]
> The French would be horrified. (This may be counted as a side benefit
> by those so inclined.)
:)
Nahh, just honoring the French tradition of cycling. Not trying to
offend anyone guv'ner. Just minding me own business when I found this
word y'see and seeing as there weren't no one around who looked like he
was missing a word I thought I'd be trying it on to see if it fitted or
summat like that. Looks just like a word of me very own that I
misplaced t'other day. Practically a mirror image it is. Didn't know
it was your word. Honest, I didn't. I can give it back if you want it
Mister Mazzoleni sir. Hardly been used at all. Just one or two
criteriums and a short tour. Don't mind the grease stains. They was
there when I found it, they was. And that tear can be mended up right
easy. I got me a friend who is a good quick hand at sewing she is.
Good as new and right cheap too. If you be wanting it back that is.
By the way, if you don't mind me saying so guv'ner, those pretty shoes
of yours is looking a bit worn around the cleat. Would a fancy chap
like you really be wanting them? I'd give you a good price for them.
Always wanted my own pair of shoes with a nice cleat like those, I did.
-M
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 17:59:08
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
"ian.rosenberg@gmail.com" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:
>Nahh, just honoring the French tradition of cycling. Not trying to
>offend anyone guv'ner. Just minding me own business when I found this
>word y'see and seeing as there weren't no one around who looked like he
>was missing a word I thought I'd be trying it on to see if it fitted or
>summat like that. Looks just like a word of me very own that I
>misplaced t'other day. Practically a mirror image it is. Didn't know
>it was your word. Honest, I didn't. I can give it back if you want it
>Mister Mazzoleni sir. Hardly been used at all. Just one or two
>criteriums and a short tour. Don't mind the grease stains. They was
>there when I found it, they was. And that tear can be mended up right
>easy. I got me a friend who is a good quick hand at sewing she is.
>Good as new and right cheap too. If you be wanting it back that is.
>
>By the way, if you don't mind me saying so guv'ner, those pretty shoes
>of yours is looking a bit worn around the cleat. Would a fancy chap
>like you really be wanting them? I'd give you a good price for them.
>Always wanted my own pair of shoes with a nice cleat like those, I did.
Heh heh heh... you pull that dialect out of the hat and your bilingual
friends are gonna be puzzled. I remember giving one of my Chinese
friends 'The Deerslayer' - I was answering archaic language questions
for weeks. ;-)
k Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
|
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 21:32:22
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
On 8 Dec 2006 11:13:48 -0800, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
<ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>Werehatrack wrote:
>> Expanding something I should have mentioned in the othe rpost...
>>
>> One of the great traditions of English is outright blatant theft from
>> other languages. Thus, the name Ecurie Tianya honors English-speaking
>> tradition by hijacking a word from Chinese and combining it with one
>> already assimilated.
>
>Other languages borrow words. English does not so much borrow words as
>lurk in dark alleys, hit other languages over the head, and go looking
>through their coat pockets in search of any pieces of spare gram
>that might have accidentally been left lying about where just anyone
>could find them. Unfortunately for those of us blessed enough to have
>been given English as a native tongue, it is in the habit of taking
>everything it finds, including the lint and unsmoked cigarette ends.
>
>[broadly paraphrased from someone famous... probably Terry Pratchett]
James Nicoll, actually, and he's only famous within a very select
group of which I'm not directly a member.
>> The French would be horrified. (This may be counted as a side benefit
>> by those so inclined.)
>
>:)
>
>Nahh, just honoring the French tradition of cycling. Not trying to
>offend anyone guv'ner. Just minding me own business when I found this
>word y'see and seeing as there weren't no one around who looked like he
>was missing a word I thought I'd be trying it on to see if it fitted or
>summat like that. Looks just like a word of me very own that I
>misplaced t'other day. Practically a mirror image it is. Didn't know
>it was your word. Honest, I didn't. I can give it back if you want it
>Mister Mazzoleni sir. Hardly been used at all. Just one or two
>criteriums and a short tour. Don't mind the grease stains. They was
>there when I found it, they was. And that tear can be mended up right
>easy. I got me a friend who is a good quick hand at sewing she is.
>Good as new and right cheap too. If you be wanting it back that is.
>
>By the way, if you don't mind me saying so guv'ner, those pretty shoes
>of yours is looking a bit worn around the cleat. Would a fancy chap
>like you really be wanting them? I'd give you a good price for them.
>Always wanted my own pair of shoes with a nice cleat like those, I did.
>
>-M
Well said!
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 03:05:22
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
> In article <1165503390.480014.279700@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> ian.rosenberg@gmail.com says...
> > I got asked to translate the name of the bike club into English.
>
> <snip>
>
> > Tianya Qilu
> >
> > Literal translation of tianya is "boundaries of the universe" or "end
> > of the sky." Sometimes "horizon." It's one of the poetic names that
> > has been given to Hainan for centuries, because, as the southernmost
> > province of China, Hainan is clearly the farthest outpost of
> > civilization and the civilized world.
> >
> > The somewhat easier qilu literally translates as "riders of donkeys"
>
> <snip>
>
> > Some of the options I've come up with are:
> >
> > Paradise Donkeys Cycling Club
> > Paradise Knights Cycling Club
> > Horizon Knights Cycling Club
>
> How about Edge of Heaven Cycling Club? You lose the knight imagery, but regain
> some of the "end of the sky" poetry that's otherwise lost with a translation to
> "paradise".
Paradise was on my mind because someone in the keting department for
the Tour de Hainan came up with "Hainan, a Natural Paradise for
Cyclists"
With the exception of "Happy Bike Team" which no one actually told me
was a translation exercise until they printed the jerseys (my birthday
was that week and they thought it would be so much cooler to just
surprise me) this is the first time I've had something poetic handed to
me.
This and k's "Horizon Riders" both sound pretty good to me. Better
than my best efforts anyways. Collective translation effort with the
help of rec.bicycles.misc ... :)
-M
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 02:54:12
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <1165503390.480014.279700@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com> writes:
> > I got asked to translate the name of the bike club into English.
> > We've already got the staid boring normal name for the Hainan
> > Provincial Cycling Assosciation, which, although it is based out of the
> > same bike shop and run by the same people as the bike club is not
> > exactly the same as the bike club. Really quite a different thing. Or
> > so they tell me. The bike club is the bike club, the cycling
> > assosciation is the cycling assosciation and never the twain shall meet
> > unless it's over tea and cookies at the shop across the street.
>
> [snip]
>
> > So, what do you people think?
>
> If the bike _shop_ is your team's sponsor, how about going
> conventional, with Team <insert name of bike shop/team sponsor here>?
Except that the actual name of the bike shop, the name that the bikers
call the bike shop and the name that everyone else calls the bike shop
are three completely different things.
"Fuchunshan of Hainan"
"The Shop" or "West Jiefang Street"
"Giant Bicycles"
> Of course that would give your team an "at home" name and an
> "abroad" name, unless the name of the bike shop is Tianya Qilu,
> which I guess would put you back to square one.
Don't need an at home name. There's really only us. There's also
'them' but because of politics while 'us' can go play with 'them',
'them' can't come play with 'us' and makes a loud point of not really
wanting to anyway, so there, nyah nyah.
> Still, I think "Team Tianya Qilu" has more exotic cachet
> than "Credit Agricole" or "Phonak".
Ahh, whereas my friends think having a Real English name is far more
exotic than something boring and Chinese.
The bike team (which almost but not quite succeeds in being a seperate
entity from the bike club) has an English name on their jerseys (sort
of my fault), the cycling assosciation (which claims to be a seperate
entity from the bike club) has an English name, and all the Real Racer
Boys that were here at the Tour de Hainan had English names...
Even the them have an English name.
-M
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 02:28:53
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Jeanne wrote:
> ian.rosenberg@gmail.com wrote:
> > I got asked to translate the name of the bike club into English.
> >
> > Probably because the name of the bike club is something tremendously
> > weird and none of the English speaking Chinese people in the club have
> > been willing to tackle it for fear that they'd get the English all
> > wrong.
> >
> > =E5=A4=A9=E6=B6=AF=E9=AA=91=E9=A9=B4
> >
> > Tianya Qilu
>
> [snip]
>
>
> Lose the literal translation - no one translate Chinese into English
> literally.
But the literal meaning helps when I'm asking people who aren't fluent
in Chinese for suggestions. Poetic Chinese and babelfish don't play
nicely together.
-M
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 02:24:40
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Diablo Scott wrote:
> Borderline Assmen?
>
> Most Auspicious Priory of the Knights of the Burro?
While I have a feeling that Monty Python would go over pretty well with
some of the group, I'm also thinking that there is no way that would
fit on our jersey sleeves.
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 17:05:09
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Expanding something I should have mentioned in the othe rpost...
One of the great traditions of English is outright blatant theft from
other languages. Thus, the name Ecurie Tianya honors English-speaking
tradition by hijacking a word from Chinese and combining it with one
already assimilated.
The French would be horrified. (This may be counted as a side benefit
by those so inclined.)
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 16:58:31
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
On 8 Dec 2006 02:24:40 -0800, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
<ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>Diablo Scott wrote:
>> Borderline Assmen?
>>
>> Most Auspicious Priory of the Knights of the Burro?
>
>While I have a feeling that Monty Python would go over pretty well with
>some of the group, I'm also thinking that there is no way that would
>fit on our jersey sleeves.
I propose a completely different non-translation. Ecurie Tianya. The
term "ecurie", from the French for "stable", has a long history of
usage as part of the name of both motoring and cycling clubs in
English-speaking nations; when so employed, there is no need to
translate or explain the term following.
I will point out that it also has a certain anmount of humorous
history as well; one of the more successful auto racing teams of the
1970s was "Ecurie Escargot", whose translation should be obvious.
Literally, however, one multi-lingual translation would be "the riding
group of the endless horizon", a fitting and appropriate designation.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
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Date: 08 Dec 2006 17:21:05
From: nash
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Riders of the Sun.
Sun instead of Horizon and they have a rock song as their theme too.
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 19:44:25
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
On 7 Dec 2006 06:56:30 -0800, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
<ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:
Heavenly Asses.
Paradise Knights
--
zk
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 21:36:58
From: Earl Bollinger
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Knights of Paradise Riders
Paradise Knights
Paradise Riders
<ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1165503390.480014.279700@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I got asked to translate the name of the bike club into English.
Probably because the name of the bike club is something tremendously
weird and none of the English speaking Chinese people in the club have
been willing to tackle it for fear that they'd get the English all
wrong.
????
Tianya Qilu
Literal translation of tianya is "boundaries of the universe" or "end
of the sky." Sometimes "horizon." It's one of the poetic names that
has been given to Hainan for centuries, because, as the southernmost
province of China, Hainan is clearly the farthest outpost of
civilization and the civilized world.
The somewhat easier qilu literally translates as "riders of donkeys"
When I asked why the bike club was called Tianya Qilu (in the hopes of
finding some easier way of translating the name) I got given a magazine
article where it explained that the tianya is for Hainan because Hainan
is a natural paradise, and the donkey riding is because the members of
the bike club had the spirit of the knights of olde and donkeys are
probably at least as hard if not harder to ride than mountain bikes.
(Last I checked knights rode horses but hey...)
We've already got the staid boring normal name for the Hainan
Provincial Cycling Assosciation, which, although it is based out of the
same bike shop and run by the same people as the bike club is not
exactly the same as the bike club. Really quite a different thing. Or
so they tell me. The bike club is the bike club, the cycling
assosciation is the cycling assosciation and never the twain shall meet
unless it's over tea and cookies at the shop across the street.
The literal translation "Donkey Riders at the End of the Universe" has
already been shot down on the grounds of being too long. Can I come up
with something with some of the poetry of the original?
Some of the options I've come up with are:
Paradise Donkeys Cycling Club
Paradise Knights Cycling Club
Horizon Knights Cycling Club
with Horizon Donkeys just being waaaay too weird and Paradise Donkeys
probably being the best of the three. So, what do you people think?
Should I run "Paradise Donkeys Cycling Club" by laobanniang or shall I
just slink into a corner and pretend to forget that they asked me?
-M
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 17:43:16
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
In article <1165503390.480014.279700@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
"ian.rosenberg@gmail.com" <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > writes:
> I got asked to translate the name of the bike club into English.
>
> Probably because the name of the bike club is something tremendously
> weird and none of the English speaking Chinese people in the club have
> been willing to tackle it for fear that they'd get the English all
> wrong.
>
> =E5=A4=A9=E6=B6=AF=E9=AA=91=E9=A9=B4
>
> Tianya Qilu
[snip]
> We've already got the staid boring normal name for the Hainan
> Provincial Cycling Assosciation, which, although it is based out of the
> same bike shop and run by the same people as the bike club is not
> exactly the same as the bike club. Really quite a different thing. Or
> so they tell me. The bike club is the bike club, the cycling
> assosciation is the cycling assosciation and never the twain shall meet
> unless it's over tea and cookies at the shop across the street.
[snip]
> So, what do you people think?
If the bike _shop_ is your team's sponsor, how about going
conventional, with Team <insert name of bike shop/team sponsor here >?
Of course that would give your team an "at home" name and an
"abroad" name, unless the name of the bike shop is Tianya Qilu,
which I guess would put you back to square one.
Still, I think "Team Tianya Qilu" has more exotic cachet
than "Credit Agricole" or "Phonak".
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 16:21:38
From: Jeanne
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
ian.rosenberg@gmail.com wrote:
> I got asked to translate the name of the bike club into English.
>
> Probably because the name of the bike club is something tremendously
> weird and none of the English speaking Chinese people in the club have
> been willing to tackle it for fear that they'd get the English all
> wrong.
>
> 天涯骑驴
>
> Tianya Qilu
[snip]
Lose the literal translation - no one translate Chinese into English
literally.
> Some of the options I've come up with are:
>
> Paradise Donkeys Cycling Club
> Paradise Knights Cycling Club
> Horizon Knights Cycling Club
>
> with Horizon Donkeys just being waaaay too weird and Paradise Donkeys
> probably being the best of the three. So, what do you people think?
> Should I run "Paradise Donkeys Cycling Club" by laobanniang or shall I
> just slink into a corner and pretend to forget that they asked me?
>
> -M
Horizon Paradise Cycling Club
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 19:54:22
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
ian.rosenberg@gmail.com wrote:
> Some of the options I've come up with are:
>
> Paradise Donkeys Cycling Club
> Paradise Knights Cycling Club
> Horizon Knights Cycling Club
>
Paradise Donkey Riders :-)
Edge of the Universe Cyclists
Wayne
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 14:28:05
From: dgk
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
On 7 Dec 2006 06:56:30 -0800, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
<ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:
>I got asked to translate the name of the bike club into English.
>
>Probably because the name of the bike club is something tremendously
>weird and none of the English speaking Chinese people in the club have
>been willing to tackle it for fear that they'd get the English all
>wrong.
>
>????
>
>Tianya Qilu
I was thinking Endless Horizons, until I got to the donkey part.
Knights of Endless Horizon.
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| | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 14:13:17
From: Pat in TX
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
>
> I was thinking Endless Horizons, until I got to the donkey part.
> Knights of Endless Horizon.
Endless Horizon Riders
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 21:33:07
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Pat in TX wrote:
>>I was thinking Endless Horizons, until I got to the donkey part.
>>Knights of Endless Horizon.
>
>
> Endless Horizon Riders
>
>
I like it!
Wayne
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 16:50:47
From: mark
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
ian.rosenberg@gmail.com wrote:
> I got asked to translate the name of the bike club into English.
>
> Probably because the name of the bike club is something tremendously
> weird and none of the English speaking Chinese people in the club have
> been willing to tackle it for fear that they'd get the English all
> wrong.
>
> 天涯骑驴
>
> Tianya Qilu
>
> Literal translation of tianya is "boundaries of the universe" or "end
> of the sky." Sometimes "horizon." It's one of the poetic names that
> has been given to Hainan for centuries, because, as the southernmost
> province of China, Hainan is clearly the farthest outpost of
> civilization and the civilized world.
>
> The somewhat easier qilu literally translates as "riders of donkeys"
>
> When I asked why the bike club was called Tianya Qilu (in the hopes of
> finding some easier way of translating the name) I got given a magazine
> article where it explained that the tianya is for Hainan because Hainan
> is a natural paradise, and the donkey riding is because the members of
> the bike club had the spirit of the knights of olde and donkeys are
> probably at least as hard if not harder to ride than mountain bikes.
> (Last I checked knights rode horses but hey...)
>
> We've already got the staid boring normal name for the Hainan
> Provincial Cycling Assosciation, which, although it is based out of the
> same bike shop and run by the same people as the bike club is not
> exactly the same as the bike club. Really quite a different thing. Or
> so they tell me. The bike club is the bike club, the cycling
> assosciation is the cycling assosciation and never the twain shall meet
> unless it's over tea and cookies at the shop across the street.
>
> The literal translation "Donkey Riders at the End of the Universe" has
> already been shot down on the grounds of being too long. Can I come up
> with something with some of the poetry of the original?
>
> Some of the options I've come up with are:
>
> Paradise Donkeys Cycling Club
> Paradise Knights Cycling Club
> Horizon Knights Cycling Club
>
> with Horizon Donkeys just being waaaay too weird and Paradise Donkeys
> probably being the best of the three. So, what do you people think?
> Should I run "Paradise Donkeys Cycling Club" by laobanniang or shall I
> just slink into a corner and pretend to forget that they asked me?
>
> -M
>
"tianya" = horizon
"qilu" = riders (of donkeys)
Horizon Riders? No need to mention what they're riding.
k
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 17:00:15
From: Leo Lichtman
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
"k" wrote: Horizon Riders? No need to mention what they're riding
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good. The use of the word "riders" introduces a useful anbiguity, which
translates from the Chinese meaning, while still describing the current
activity. So: "Paradise Riders," or "Horizon Riders," or :Far Out Riders."
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Dec 2006 23:02:50
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Werehatrack wrote:
> On 10 Dec 2006 20:42:59 -0800, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
> <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com> may have said:
>
> >Our current textbook (also 70s vintage, also free) is "Winning Bicycle
> >Racing" and since it was written by someone whose job was bikes the
> >only difficult bits are the overly technical pieces of jargonese where
> >I need to have my student explain them to me cause I don't understand
> >the English.
>
> Thus you are bringing into play one of the most effective teaching
> tools available; get the student involved in the process of explaining
> the subject. Sounds like you both get to learn something; that's a
> good deal.
In the case of the frame geometry I learned a lot of new Chinese jargon
but my actual understanding level of the basic why remains more or less
the same.
Did get him to explain sew-up tires to me in English. Though I suspect
my knowing of them from old books and rbt isn't that much different
from the way he knows about them (since, to my knowledge, he has never
done anything involving track bikes.)
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| | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 09:39:48
From: Diablo Scott
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
Borderline Assmen?
Most Auspicious Priory of the Knights of the Burro?
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 20:24:48
From: Kristian M Zoerhoff
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
In article <457851b9$0$14733$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com >,
DiabloScottNOSPAM@terra.es says...
>
> Most Auspicious Priory of the Knights of the Burro?
Only if pronounced in a ridiculous English accent.
--
__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com
(_)/ (_)
|
| |
Date: 07 Dec 2006 16:08:09
From: Kristian M Zoerhoff
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
In article <1165503390.480014.279700@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
ian.rosenberg@gmail.com says...
> I got asked to translate the name of the bike club into English.
<snip >
> Tianya Qilu
>
> Literal translation of tianya is "boundaries of the universe" or "end
> of the sky." Sometimes "horizon." It's one of the poetic names that
> has been given to Hainan for centuries, because, as the southernmost
> province of China, Hainan is clearly the farthest outpost of
> civilization and the civilized world.
>
> The somewhat easier qilu literally translates as "riders of donkeys"
<snip >
> Some of the options I've come up with are:
>
> Paradise Donkeys Cycling Club
> Paradise Knights Cycling Club
> Horizon Knights Cycling Club
How about Edge of Heaven Cycling Club? You lose the knight imagery, but regain
some of the "end of the sky" poetry that's otherwise lost with a translation to
"paradise".
--
__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com
(_)/ (_)
|
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Date: 07 Dec 2006 15:46:26
From: nash
Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted
|
I will just add that I will be praying for you. :)
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|
