| |
Main
Date: 21 Aug 2007 22:46:24
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
We're looking to do a better job with women's apparel, and see the plus-size
market as being pretty much ignored by retailers and manufacturers, leading
to a lot of unhappy customers. An under-served market, in other words. Have
any women here found manufacturers who do a better job with this than
others?
Thanks-
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
|
| |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 20:29:55
From: Veloise
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
Bib shorts on women discussion:
> > And they probably have an issue with where the straps sit.
>
> My guess is that could be gotten around fairly easily. The current setup is, quite obviously,
> designed for guys. It shouldn't be that tough to come up with crossover-straps to get around
> that. I assume that if there were advantages for women (using bib shorts), somebody would
> have already done that.
Fellas? You're out riding, and drinking drinking drinking. Sitting on
a bike seat (think compression). Here's the rest stop...
...do my bibs have velcro on the shoulders? Or in the crotch?
That might be why they aren't often worn by women.
HTH
--Karen D.
|
| | |
Date: 28 Aug 2007 13:30:03
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
> Fellas? You're out riding, and drinking drinking drinking. Sitting on
> a bike seat (think compression). Here's the rest stop...
>
> ...do my bibs have velcro on the shoulders? Or in the crotch?
>
> That might be why they aren't often worn by women.
It can be a hassle for guys as well. I have one pair that goes way up high
in front, so if you need to go, you pretty much have to do a yoga lotus
thing, contorting yourself in a way that you might permanently cramp in that
position.
But more seriously, I have seen women somehow remove a bra without removing
their shirt (although I can't quite figure out what circumstance I would
have been in that I would have witnessed that, nor why it would be
necessary...). If that can be done, would it be any more difficult dealing
with a bib short?
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Aug 2007 20:09:51
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
>>
>> ...do my bibs have velcro on the shoulders? Or in the crotch?
>>
>> That might be why they aren't often worn by women.
>
> It can be a hassle for guys as well. I have one pair that goes way up high
> in front, so if you need to go, you pretty much have to do a yoga lotus
> thing, contorting yourself in a way that you might permanently cramp in
> that position.
>
> But more seriously, I have seen women somehow remove a bra without
> removing their shirt (although I can't quite figure out what circumstance
> I would have been in that I would have witnessed that, nor why it would be
> necessary...). If that can be done, would it be any more difficult dealing
> with a bib short?
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
As I recall, the woman would have to remove the bibs from her bottom as
well. That would seem to be more difficult; baring a bottom vs. taking a bra
off without baring a top. But, I'd be willing to watch a demonstration.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 15:34:34
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:29:55 -0700, Veloise wrote:
> That might be why they aren't often worn by women.
If you're not willing to get a suprapubic catheter installed to
correct your physical deformities, you're not dedicated enough
to cycling :-)
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 21:42:51
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
In article <13cps52hdc8npa8@corp.supernews.com >,
"Claire Petersky" <cpetersky@mouse-potato.com > writes:
> "Pat" <Pat@starrynight.com> wrote in message
> news:5j3vnqF3sj9apU1@mid.individual.net...
>> You may call it "plus size" but the women I know tell me that the women's
>> large is usually a 10/12 size and that's hardly a "plus size" because a
>> plus is around a size 20. I know a woman who is 5'8" and weighs 135 and
>> has to wear size L or XL because the cycling clothing manufacturers think
>> every woman is skinny and tiny.
>
> Yeah, I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs, size 12, and in the women's market, I'm a L or
> XL in women's bike clothes. I've got a long way before I'm "plus size" in
> regular clothes, though.
>
> Terry has a "plus" section
> (http://www.terrybicycles.com/product.html?c=Plus) but it's not cheap.
> Junonia has a cycling section
> (http://www.junonia.com/thumb.htm?tl=2&ldid=18&sdid=50&offer=11797) that's
> limited, but not as expensive.
>
> Team Estrogen has a plus size section, all sorts of brands, including Terry:
> http://www.teamestrogen.com/categories.asp?catID=53
There's a place/web-presence called www.floydcycles.com,
that purports to cater to women's riding apparel requirements.
Perhaps this might also be worthy of review and investigation?
Tell ya what, though -- chix in those pink, split-cuff
pedalpusher pants are Hot! They've got nice curves,
anyways. Kinda like Wilma Dearing in Buck Rogers,
in her pink silk jumper, with a bunch of lower
leg showing.
But I guess I'm getting too old for thinking
about that stuff. Maybe I should just shuddup
and ride my bike(s).
Anyway, women don't need bib shorts; their
physiologies don't require, as much as men
do, stuff to keep stuff from riding down.
From what I've heard, women need stuff that
doesn't ride up. And form-fits without
constricting.
I opine there are three basic women's body types:
pixie-ish, coltish, and nubile. Doesn't matter
how much meat is on their bones, or how tall or short
they are, or how large or delicate their bone structures
are. I think women would be better served if the mfgrs
bore those body types in mind when they come up with sizes.
And I think long-waisted or short-waisted is too
underconsidered in deciding women's clothing sizings.
No wonder you ladies have to search and search and search
for stuff that fits, at the shopping mall or department store.
Nevertheless, please forgive us guys for wandering off
into the electronics store or whatever, while you're busy
trying stuff on. We just don't get it, and never will.
We don't even wanna get it.
Actually, it would be heavenly if women could get in there,
pick-out what they want, find out it fits perfectly, they're
satisfied, and we can get the hell outa there and go do
mischievious stuff.
Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. And we have to
deal with it.
Lots of incipient mischief goes to waste.
My job is to alleviate that.
cheers,
Tom
--
b-b-b-b-b
"Tweekie"
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
|
| | |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 11:56:37
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:42:51 -0700, Tom Keats wrote:
> But I guess I'm getting too old for thinking
> about that stuff. Maybe I should just shuddup
> and ride my bike(s).
We're never too old to think about it. With all the male arses
we have to look at, we deserve it :-)
> Nevertheless, please forgive us guys for wandering off
> into the electronics store or whatever, while you're busy
> trying stuff on. We just don't get it, and never will.
> We don't even wanna get it.
Try shopping for bike outfits with fit women. That'll change
your mind about standing around giving opinions about
clothes.
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 08:35:03
From: John Kane
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Aug 24, 6:03 pm, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <u...@ftc.gov > wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:42:58 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> said in
> <NpHzi.1032$YQ....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>:
>
> >Bib shorts, for men anyway, are the most wonderful thing to come along since
> >Lycra shorts with synthetic chamois
>
> INCOMIIIIIING!
>
> Guy
> --
> May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
>
> 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
For heaven sake!. Don't tell her about this thread.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
|
| |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 19:44:55
From: Artemisia
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> An under-served market, in other words. Have
> any women here found manufacturers who do a better job with this than
> others?
Very underserved, indeed. I have a constant problem finding bikewear
that fits me. The sports shops around here, notably Go Sport, actually
told me they have a _policy_ of no plus sizes for women (although they
do stock them for men) because they are afraid it would damage their
"image".
I did get some undershorts, though, from Team Estrogen. The undershorts
and I are inseperable, even when I'm not cycling as I find them so
comfortable.
http://www.teamestrogen.com/
Good luck with the project.
EFR
Ile de France
|
| | |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 13:58:44
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
> Very underserved, indeed. I have a constant problem finding bikewear that
> fits me. The sports shops around here, notably Go Sport, actually told me
> they have a _policy_ of no plus sizes for women (although they do stock
> them for men) because they are afraid it would damage their "image".
>
> I did get some undershorts, though, from Team Estrogen. The undershorts
> and I are inseperable, even when I'm not cycling as I find them so
> comfortable.
> http://www.teamestrogen.com/
>
> Good luck with the project.
>
> EFR
> Ile de France
Why does it not surprise me that, in the Ile de France region (Paris), a
shop would think that larger-size women's apparel would "damage their
image?" Funny thing about France is that the concept of rail-thin women
being desirable is primarily one found in Paris and nowhere else. Plenty of
"normal" folk in the rest of the country, from what I've seen.
But in general, it seems that small French retail shops tend to be far more
patronizing towards their customers than what you find here, while the
larger shops and chains are making considerable inroads by being more in
tune with what the customer wants. In my opinion, there's a huge opportunity
for a local bicycle retailer focusing on customer service in France. But
that's a whole different topic.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 19:53:49
From: Artemisia
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
Artemisia wrote:
> I did get some undershorts, though, from Team Estrogen. The undershorts
> and I are inseperable, even when I'm not cycling as I find them so
> comfortable.
> http://www.teamestrogen.com/
PS: The manufacturer was Mt. Borah.
EFR
Ile de France
|
| |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 22:07:45
From: Lynne Fitz
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Aug 23, 7:50 pm, Michael Warner <m...@westnet.com.au > wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:25:02 -0700, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > There's no universal advantage to tight-fitting jerseys, but I cannot tell
> > you how many of my customers resisted, for years, the "funny looking"
> > non-baggy lycra cycling shorts, despite my efforts.... and then, when they
> > finally got them, they'd be mad at me because I hadn't forced the issue
> > strongly enough earlier.
>
> I remember feeling pretty self-conscious the first time I pulled a pair on,
> too :-)
>
> The next hurdle is to convince people that bibs are worth the extra cost
> and inconvenience . Once they've tried them, they invariably wonder why
> they ever resisted.
I think the purpose of bibs is so that when a guy reaches up, his gut
doesn't hang out...
|
| | |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 13:42:58
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
>> The next hurdle is to convince people that bibs are worth the extra cost
>> and inconvenience . Once they've tried them, they invariably wonder why
>> they ever resisted.
>
> I think the purpose of bibs is so that when a guy reaches up, his gut
> doesn't hang out...
Bib shorts, for men anyway, are the most wonderful thing to come along since
Lycra shorts with synthetic chamois (the alternative being the old wool ones
with real leather chamois... yuck!... to think I lived in those things for a
number of years, and there's probably somebody on the 'net who thinks they
were better).
The wonderful thing about bib tights is that you can stand up & sit down and
just generally move around on the bike and the shorts stay in place. Women
probably don't have as much of an issue due to having hips. I suppose you
could also make a case that, with suspender shorts, a jersey becomes
optional as well.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 11:35:00
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:42:58 -0700, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> The wonderful thing about bib tights is that you can stand up & sit down and
> just generally move around on the bike and the shorts stay in place. Women
> probably don't have as much of an issue due to having hips.
And they probably have an issue with where the straps sit.
|
| | | | |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 03:56:03
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
>> The wonderful thing about bib tights is that you can stand up & sit down
>> and
>> just generally move around on the bike and the shorts stay in place.
>> Women
>> probably don't have as much of an issue due to having hips.
>
> And they probably have an issue with where the straps sit.
My guess is that could be gotten around fairly easily. The current setup is,
quite obviously, designed for guys. It shouldn't be that tough to come up
with crossover-straps to get around that. I assume that if there were
advantages for women (using bib shorts), somebody would have already done
that.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | | | | |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 11:52:50
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 03:56:03 GMT, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> My guess is that could be gotten around fairly easily. The current setup is,
> quite obviously, designed for guys. It shouldn't be that tough to come up
> with crossover-straps to get around that. I assume that if there were
> advantages for women (using bib shorts), somebody would have already done
> that.
I'm pretty sure the Assos catalogue I looked at once featured a gorgeous
female in bibs, but perhaps they're not popular. Could be just an excuse to
put more photos of them in there :-)
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 23:03:24
From: Just zis Guy, you know?
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:42:58 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > said in
<NpHzi.1032$YQ.831@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com >:
>Bib shorts, for men anyway, are the most wonderful thing to come along since
>Lycra shorts with synthetic chamois
INCOMIIIIIING!
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 23:48:09
From: Just zis Guy, you know?
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:03:24 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<uce@ftc.gov > said in <2dluc31amldl59bkv3j5d3cqnusqu7g4ep@4ax.com>:
>>Bib shorts, for men anyway, are the most wonderful thing to come along since
>>Lycra shorts with synthetic chamois
>INCOMIIIIIING!
For those not in the know:
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Mini-faq-bibshorts
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
|
| |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 10:39:42
From: thejen12
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Aug 21, 10:46 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> We're looking to do a better job with women's apparel, and see the plus-size
> market as being pretty much ignored by retailers and manufacturers, leading
> to a lot of unhappy customers. An under-served market, in other words. Have
> any women here found manufacturers who do a better job with this than
> others?
>
> Thanks-
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
In addition to other points raised in this thread, I think cycling-
specific clothing is an acquired taste. When I first got into
cycling, I weighed about 120 lbs. and went to get my first pair of
cycling shorts. I couldn't believe how tight they were! I tried on
many different ones before settling on a size large. After getting
used to them and understanding how they are supposed to work, and
hanging around with other people who wore cycling clothes, I went back
and got size small, as I should have in the first place. I was
comfortable with a size small, once I understood that was how they are
supposed to look and feel.
Those new to cycling may just not be used to how cycling clothes are
supposed to fit - they seem uncomfortable to us because they are
unlike any other type of clothing we've worn before. Some may be
looking for size XXL, even though they can fit into a size L, but they
just aren't used to how "correctly fitting" cycling clothes feel. (I
put "correctly fitting" in parentheses because it's someone's idea of
what is correct, but not everyone's. Cycling clothing is like a
uniform for the pros and has very specific properties - but may not be
for everyone. You don't need full padding and cleated shoes, etc. to
play a pick-up game of football in the park, and you may not need a
cycling "uniform" to go out and ride your bike.)
Perhaps there is a need for an entirely different line of cycling
clothes. Not everyone wants to wear skin-tight clothing, even though
it's more wicking, aerodynamic, etc.
Jenn
|
| | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 12:42:03
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:39:42 -0700, thejen12 <thejen12@hotmail.com >
wrote:
>
>Perhaps there is a need for an entirely different line of cycling
>clothes. Not everyone wants to wear skin-tight clothing, even though
>it's more wicking, aerodynamic, etc.
I think that need is starting to be addressed by small speciality
manufacturers so we can all dress like posengers or Grant Peterson.
http://swrvecycling.com/
http://www.hypnoticdesigns.com/'05goods.html
http://www.swobo.com/
http://www.chromebags.com./
--
zk
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 22:22:35
From: Lynne Fitz
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
Team Estrogen has very few pictures of real people at all. Their
clothing photos are taken on mannequins in a room. What you may not
have noticed, is that they post the sizing on every single clothing
item. You can even call, and get a very knowledgeable person (female
and bicyclist) at the other end who will answer all your questions,
and even go fish the item you have a question about out of the
warehouse and have long conversations with you about it.
On Aug 22, 8:50 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> >> You may call it "plus size" but the women I know tell me that the women's
> >> large is usually a 10/12 size and that's hardly a "plus size" because a
> >> plus is around a size 20. I know a woman who is 5'8" and weighs 135 and
> >> has to wear size L or XL because the cycling clothing manufacturers think
> >> every woman is skinny and tiny.
>
> > Yeah, I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs, size 12, and in the women's market, I'm a L or
> > XL in women's bike clothes. I've got a long way before I'm "plus size" in
> > regular clothes, though.
>
> > Terry has a "plus" section
> > (http://www.terrybicycles.com/product.html?c=Plus) but it's not cheap.
> > Junonia has a cycling section
> > (http://www.junonia.com/thumb.htm?tl=2&ldid=18&sdid=50&offer=11797) that's
> > limited, but not as expensive.
>
> > Team Estrogen has a plus size section, all sorts of brands, including
> > Terry:http://www.teamestrogen.com/categories.asp?catID=53
>
> Thanks for the links. Sure would be nice if they'd show people actually out
> riding and having fun. Bike catalogs and ads are almost entirely about
> in-shape white folk, and yet we wonder why our market is so narrowly
> defined. It was a real eye-opener for me a couple years ago when I rode the
> Chico Wildflower Century. First 100 miler I've been on where there was a
> large number of... larger people. In the SF Bay Area, if someone's not in
> good shape they're somewhat intimidated to start out in cycling, because
> everyone looks so thin & fit.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> "Claire Petersky" <cpeter...@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
>
> news:13cps52hdc8npa8@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
> > "Pat" <P...@starrynight.com> wrote in message
> >news:5j3vnqF3sj9apU1@mid.individual.net...
> >> You may call it "plus size" but the women I know tell me that the women's
> >> large is usually a 10/12 size and that's hardly a "plus size" because a
> >> plus is around a size 20. I know a woman who is 5'8" and weighs 135 and
> >> has to wear size L or XL because the cycling clothing manufacturers think
> >> every woman is skinny and tiny.
>
> > Yeah, I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs, size 12, and in the women's market, I'm a L or
> > XL in women's bike clothes. I've got a long way before I'm "plus size" in
> > regular clothes, though.
>
> > Terry has a "plus" section
> > (http://www.terrybicycles.com/product.html?c=Plus) but it's not cheap.
> > Junonia has a cycling section
> > (http://www.junonia.com/thumb.htm?tl=2&ldid=18&sdid=50&offer=11797) that's
> > limited, but not as expensive.
>
> > Team Estrogen has a plus size section, all sorts of brands, including
> > Terry:http://www.teamestrogen.com/categories.asp?catID=53
>
> > --
> > Warm Regards,
>
> > Claire Petersky
> >http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
> > See the books I've set free at:http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
| |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 02:39:23
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> We're looking to do a better job with women's apparel, and see the
> plus-size market as being pretty much ignored by retailers and
> manufacturers, leading to a lot of unhappy customers. An under-served
> market, in other words. Have any women here found manufacturers who
> do a better job with this than others?
>
> Thanks-
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
This issue has come up due to some women being dissatisfied with our current
club jerseys. They seem to favor SheBeast, but I have no experience -- nor
am I implying in any way that these women might have more than an academic
interest in plus sizes.
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:19:09
From: Patrick Lamb
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:46:24 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
>We're looking to do a better job with women's apparel, and see the plus-size
>market as being pretty much ignored by retailers and manufacturers, leading
>to a lot of unhappy customers. An under-served market, in other words. Have
>any women here found manufacturers who do a better job with this than
>others?
This may be only peripherally related, but I've found Velogear does a
decent job for me wearing what you so politely tag "plus sizes."
OTOH, one of my daughters, who might wear a larger size, is more
comfortable wearing baggy shorts. Of course, it took me about three
tries to guess her jersey size, even knowing what she wears in
non-cycling clothing.
Pat
Email address works as is.
|
| | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 04:56:30
From: Luke
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
In article <derpc3pa6m8n6s2kvi4e428o7dussbdrnu@4ax.com >, Patrick Lamb
<pdl678NOSPAM@comcast.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:46:24 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >We're looking to do a better job with women's apparel, and see the plus-size
> >market as being pretty much ignored by retailers and manufacturers, leading
> >to a lot of unhappy customers. An under-served market, in other words. Have
> >any women here found manufacturers who do a better job with this than
> >others?
>
> This may be only peripherally related, but I've found Velogear does a
> decent job for me wearing what you so politely tag "plus sizes."
>
> OTOH, one of my daughters, who might wear a larger size, is more
> comfortable wearing baggy shorts...
<snip >
Digressing further into your peripherals(!;-)... The notion of cycling
apparel strikes me as largely a marketing ploy and a cyclist's
preoccupation devoted to ritualizing an activity that basically demands
of its clothing unrestricted movement and sweat wicking/absorption
properties: it's more psychological than physical.
So why bother with the devoted wardrobe? I wonder if the misconception
among non-cyclists that such a casual activity as riding around the
neighbourhood for an hour requires donning special tights, helmet,
gloves, shoes, etc... is discouraging them from participating in what
really only requires a bicycle.
Cycling jersey? General active wear comprising synthetic fibre or, even
better, wool for its anti-stink properties -- hit the second hand
stores, merino wool pullovers and vests are abundant and cheap for the
purpose -- do nicely. Cycling tights: again, why the need? Perhaps I'm
among the minority, I find a chamois uncomfortable and so get by quite
nicely with a collection of non-cycling specific shorts (synthetic
casual, 3/4 length, etc...) and tights.
Besides saving $ another benefit of such an approach is that the
prospect of cycling to casual social affairs sans wardrobe change
spares the occasion the entrance of a spandex sausage wrap or a neon
tinged acid trip.
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 19:31:39
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 04:56:30 -0400, Luke wrote:
> Digressing further into your peripherals(!;-)... The notion of cycling
> apparel strikes me as largely a marketing ploy and a cyclist's
> preoccupation devoted to ritualizing an activity that basically demands
> of its clothing unrestricted movement and sweat wicking/absorption
> properties: it's more psychological than physical.
>
> So why bother with the devoted wardrobe?
You answered this yourself - wicking and comfort. This doesn't have to
mean an outfit that makes you look like a racing wannabe - jerseys
can be plain and a little loose, and shorts can have the flappy outer
layer preferred by anti-fashion MTBers.
|
| | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 16:25:02
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
>> Digressing further into your peripherals(!;-)... The notion of cycling
>> apparel strikes me as largely a marketing ploy and a cyclist's
>> preoccupation devoted to ritualizing an activity that basically demands
>> of its clothing unrestricted movement and sweat wicking/absorption
>> properties: it's more psychological than physical.
>>
>> So why bother with the devoted wardrobe?
>
> You answered this yourself - wicking and comfort. This doesn't have to
> mean an outfit that makes you look like a racing wannabe - jerseys
> can be plain and a little loose, and shorts can have the flappy outer
> layer preferred by anti-fashion MTBers.
But people do have to realize that you give up a fair amount in comfort when
going from lycra shorts to anything multi-layered, due to abrasion that
occurs when the layers rub against each other (and you). This is an even
more serious issue for those on the heavier side.
There's no universal advantage to tight-fitting jerseys, but I cannot tell
you how many of my customers resisted, for years, the "funny looking"
non-baggy lycra cycling shorts, despite my efforts.... and then, when they
finally got them, they'd be mad at me because I hadn't forced the issue
strongly enough earlier.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | | | |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 12:20:47
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:25:02 -0700, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> There's no universal advantage to tight-fitting jerseys, but I cannot tell
> you how many of my customers resisted, for years, the "funny looking"
> non-baggy lycra cycling shorts, despite my efforts.... and then, when they
> finally got them, they'd be mad at me because I hadn't forced the issue
> strongly enough earlier.
I remember feeling pretty self-conscious the first time I pulled a pair on,
too :-)
The next hurdle is to convince people that bibs are worth the extra cost
and inconvenience . Once they've tried them, they invariably wonder why
they ever resisted.
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 18:09:28
From: Veloise
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
Pat wrote:
> ...women's large is usually a 10/12 size ...
Yep. I wear a L or XL in "normal" clothing, and a 2X womens or L-XL in
mens cycle togs.
> ...the women are buying the men's jerseys and taking the elastic out of the hem in order to
> wear them over their hips.
BTDT.
Mike, look up my pard Cathy Rogers in Coraopolis PA. She used to
supply private label for, um, A Large Mail-Order Retailer. Did up a
women's line some years back based on research at dozens of cycling
events (think Hilly Hundred and RAGBRAI, not 0% body fat Lance-fests).
Schnaubelt or Aerotek. (Check out the LOUD lycra shorts, too.)
HTH
--Karen D.
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 18:35:56
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
You may call it "plus size" but the women I know tell me that the women's
large is usually a 10/12 size and that's hardly a "plus size" because a plus
is around a size 20. I know a woman who is 5'8" and weighs 135 and has to
wear size L or XL because the cycling clothing manufacturers think every
woman is skinny and tiny. So, no, cycling clothing people have no idea of
the average woman's size. We're not talking fat women here or even couch
potatoes starting to ride. What the clothing people don't seem to get is
that women don't want skin tight clothing the way the male professionals do.
Hell, the other day I bought a women's Small size for my 5 year old
granddaughter...and she wears a child's size 5!
A friend of mine tells me that Pearl Izumi started a dual line to go with
their performance line, and this new line is looser fitting. At least
somebody is paying attention! In other brands such as Canari, the women are
buying the men's jerseys and taking the elastic out of the hem in order to
wear them over their hips.
Pat in TX
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 19:27:57
From: Claire Petersky
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
"Pat" <Pat@starrynight.com > wrote in message
news:5j3vnqF3sj9apU1@mid.individual.net...
> You may call it "plus size" but the women I know tell me that the women's
> large is usually a 10/12 size and that's hardly a "plus size" because a
> plus is around a size 20. I know a woman who is 5'8" and weighs 135 and
> has to wear size L or XL because the cycling clothing manufacturers think
> every woman is skinny and tiny.
Yeah, I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs, size 12, and in the women's market, I'm a L or
XL in women's bike clothes. I've got a long way before I'm "plus size" in
regular clothes, though.
Terry has a "plus" section
(http://www.terrybicycles.com/product.html?c=Plus) but it's not cheap.
Junonia has a cycling section
(http://www.junonia.com/thumb.htm?tl=2&ldid=18&sdid=50&offer=11797) that's
limited, but not as expensive.
Team Estrogen has a plus size section, all sorts of brands, including Terry:
http://www.teamestrogen.com/categories.asp?catID=53
--
Warm Regards,
Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 20:50:10
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
>> You may call it "plus size" but the women I know tell me that the women's
>> large is usually a 10/12 size and that's hardly a "plus size" because a
>> plus is around a size 20. I know a woman who is 5'8" and weighs 135 and
>> has to wear size L or XL because the cycling clothing manufacturers think
>> every woman is skinny and tiny.
>
> Yeah, I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs, size 12, and in the women's market, I'm a L or
> XL in women's bike clothes. I've got a long way before I'm "plus size" in
> regular clothes, though.
>
> Terry has a "plus" section
> (http://www.terrybicycles.com/product.html?c=Plus) but it's not cheap.
> Junonia has a cycling section
> (http://www.junonia.com/thumb.htm?tl=2&ldid=18&sdid=50&offer=11797) that's
> limited, but not as expensive.
>
> Team Estrogen has a plus size section, all sorts of brands, including
> Terry: http://www.teamestrogen.com/categories.asp?catID=53
Thanks for the links. Sure would be nice if they'd show people actually out
riding and having fun. Bike catalogs and ads are almost entirely about
in-shape white folk, and yet we wonder why our market is so narrowly
defined. It was a real eye-opener for me a couple years ago when I rode the
Chico Wildflower Century. First 100 miler I've been on where there was a
large number of... larger people. In the SF Bay Area, if someone's not in
good shape they're somewhat intimidated to start out in cycling, because
everyone looks so thin & fit.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Claire Petersky" <cpetersky@mouse-potato.com > wrote in message
news:13cps52hdc8npa8@corp.supernews.com...
> "Pat" <Pat@starrynight.com> wrote in message
> news:5j3vnqF3sj9apU1@mid.individual.net...
>> You may call it "plus size" but the women I know tell me that the women's
>> large is usually a 10/12 size and that's hardly a "plus size" because a
>> plus is around a size 20. I know a woman who is 5'8" and weighs 135 and
>> has to wear size L or XL because the cycling clothing manufacturers think
>> every woman is skinny and tiny.
>
> Yeah, I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs, size 12, and in the women's market, I'm a L or
> XL in women's bike clothes. I've got a long way before I'm "plus size" in
> regular clothes, though.
>
> Terry has a "plus" section
> (http://www.terrybicycles.com/product.html?c=Plus) but it's not cheap.
> Junonia has a cycling section
> (http://www.junonia.com/thumb.htm?tl=2&ldid=18&sdid=50&offer=11797) that's
> limited, but not as expensive.
>
> Team Estrogen has a plus size section, all sorts of brands, including
> Terry: http://www.teamestrogen.com/categories.asp?catID=53
>
>
> --
> Warm Regards,
>
> Claire Petersky
> http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
> See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
>
>
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 06:56:45
From: Claire Petersky
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:Tt7zi.1532$vU4.65@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Thanks for the links. Sure would be nice if they'd show people actually
> out riding and having fun. Bike catalogs and ads are almost entirely about
> in-shape white folk, and yet we wonder why our market is so narrowly
> defined. It was a real eye-opener for me a couple years ago when I rode
> the Chico Wildflower Century. First 100 miler I've been on where there was
> a large number of... larger people.
I volunteered one year at the finish line of the Seattle-to-Portland ride,
day 2. It was ~6000 people who were completing 200+ miles of riding over two
days. You saw *everyone* come over that finish line. Fat people, old people,
kids on trail-a-bikes being toted by mom or dad. Maybe some of them were
SAG'ed for 50 miles and then just got out of the car a mile or two before
the finish line, but maybe not. Everytime I ride STP, I am struck by the
variety of people on that ride - including lots of "plus size" women.
--
Warm Regards,
Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
|
| | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 19:39:49
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:50:10 -0700, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Thanks for the links. Sure would be nice if they'd show people actually out
> riding and having fun. Bike catalogs and ads are almost entirely about
> in-shape white folk
I saw my first black roadie (African, not Aboriginal) in the hills a few
months ago, and we regularly pass his group at the same point on Sunday
morning. I did a double-take the first time, and it took me a moment to
realize why. Since then I've said hello a few times, and he has an English
accent!
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 18:22:00
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> We're looking to do a better job with women's apparel, and see the plus-size
> market as being pretty much ignored by retailers and manufacturers, leading
> to a lot of unhappy customers. An under-served market, in other words. Have
> any women here found manufacturers who do a better job with this than
> others?
>
> Thanks-
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
>
Plus-size market for /bicycling/ clothing?
I tend to suspect that the plus-size market for conventional cycling
cloths is being ignored, because not a lot of very-overweight people
want to ride upright bikes anyway. The bicycles themselves cause too
much discomfort; fat people and tiny seats just don't work.
Recumbents are a lot easier for overweight people to ride than upright
bikes are, and regular cycling clothing doesn't work that well on
recumbents.
Kucharik makes cycling clothing, including a selection of
recumbent-specific clothes. Their 3XL shorts fit a 46-50 inch waist.
~
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:39:33
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
Doug Cimper wrote:
> ...
> I tend to suspect that the plus-size market for conventional cycling
> cloths is being ignored, because not a lot of very-overweight people
> want to ride upright bikes anyway. The bicycles themselves cause too
> much discomfort; fat people and tiny seats just don't work.
>
> Recumbents are a lot easier for overweight people to ride than upright
> bikes are, and regular cycling clothing doesn't work that well on
> recumbents....
Cut the stitching that holds the jersey pockets on and re-sew the
pockets on front.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 20:28:40
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
>> Recumbents are a lot easier for overweight people to ride than upright
>> bikes are, and regular cycling clothing doesn't work that well on
>> recumbents....
>
> Cut the stitching that holds the jersey pockets on and re-sew the pockets
> on front.
Or just stitch another zipper into the back and turn the jersey around...
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0003@iinvalid.com > wrote in message
news:46cce756$0$19451$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> Doug Cimper wrote:
>> ...
>> I tend to suspect that the plus-size market for conventional cycling
>> cloths is being ignored, because not a lot of very-overweight people want
>> to ride upright bikes anyway. The bicycles themselves cause too much
>> discomfort; fat people and tiny seats just don't work.
>>
>> Recumbents are a lot easier for overweight people to ride than upright
>> bikes are, and regular cycling clothing doesn't work that well on
>> recumbents....
>
> Cut the stitching that holds the jersey pockets on and re-sew the pockets
> on front.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 19:14:26
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
> Plus-size market for /bicycling/ clothing?
>
> I tend to suspect that the plus-size market for conventional cycling
> cloths is being ignored, because not a lot of very-overweight people want
> to ride upright bikes anyway. The bicycles themselves cause too much
> discomfort; fat people and tiny seats just don't work.
It's a misconception that larger folk can't ride in a conventional bike
position. You might have to make some allowances for a taller handlebar, but
a road bike can still work out well, and be more comfortable than a hybrid
because you're not putting all that weight on your tail end. Especially the
myths about required seat widths, which have caused people to believe they
need a considerably-wider saddle than they actually do. You're not
supporting the outside of your butt; you're supporting the pubic rami.
There are equipment issues with bikes for heavier folk; wider tires and
stronger wheels in general. But you don't have to rule out a road bike, nor
more-comfortable road-bike-style clothing.
--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
"DougC" <dcimper@norcom2000.com > wrote in message
news:5y3zi.12$DU1.3@newsfe05.lga...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> We're looking to do a better job with women's apparel, and see the
>> plus-size market as being pretty much ignored by retailers and
>> manufacturers, leading to a lot of unhappy customers. An under-served
>> market, in other words. Have any women here found manufacturers who do a
>> better job with this than others?
>>
>> Thanks-
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> Plus-size market for /bicycling/ clothing?
>
> I tend to suspect that the plus-size market for conventional cycling
> cloths is being ignored, because not a lot of very-overweight people want
> to ride upright bikes anyway. The bicycles themselves cause too much
> discomfort; fat people and tiny seats just don't work.
>
> Recumbents are a lot easier for overweight people to ride than upright
> bikes are, and regular cycling clothing doesn't work that well on
> recumbents.
>
> Kucharik makes cycling clothing, including a selection of
> recumbent-specific clothes. Their 3XL shorts fit a 46-50 inch waist.
> ~
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:41:42
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> ...
> It's a misconception that larger folk can't ride in a conventional bike
> position. You might have to make some allowances for a taller handlebar, but
> a road bike can still work out well, and be more comfortable than a hybrid
> because you're not putting all that weight on your tail end. Especially the
> myths about required seat widths, which have caused people to believe they
> need a considerably-wider saddle than they actually do. You're not
> supporting the outside of your butt; you're supporting the pubic rami....
butbutbut, heavy people will be supporting a lot more weight on that
small area AND on their hands.
It is a myth that proper fit on an upright can cure all discomfort - the
people who it does not work for just quit cycling or get 'bent.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:34:43
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
DougC wrote:
:: Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
::: We're looking to do a better job with women's apparel, and see the
::: plus-size market as being pretty much ignored by retailers and
::: manufacturers, leading to a lot of unhappy customers. An
::: under-served market, in other words. Have any women here found
::: manufacturers who do a better job with this than others?
:::
::: Thanks-
:::
::: --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
::: www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
:::
:::
:::
::
:: Plus-size market for /bicycling/ clothing?
http://www.aerotechdesigns.com/#
::
:: I tend to suspect that the plus-size market for conventional cycling
:: cloths is being ignored, because not a lot of very-overweight people
:: want to ride upright bikes anyway. The bicycles themselves cause too
:: much discomfort; fat people and tiny seats just don't work.
How does one define "fat people' around here?
::
:: Recumbents are a lot easier for overweight people to ride than
:: upright bikes are, and regular cycling clothing doesn't work that
:: well on recumbents.
::
:: Kucharik makes cycling clothing, including a selection of
:: recumbent-specific clothes. Their 3XL shorts fit a 46-50 inch waist.
:: ~
|
| |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 00:09:51
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:46:24 -0700, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> We're looking to do a better job with women's apparel, and see the plus-size
> market as being pretty much ignored by retailers and manufacturers, leading
> to a lot of unhappy customers. An under-served market, in other words. Have
> any women here found manufacturers who do a better job with this than
> others?
What's "plus size" - a polite term for fat? A friend of mine is a very lean
5'4", and she has trouble finding women's gear that's /small/ enough.
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 17:07:49
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
>> We're looking to do a better job with women's apparel, and see the
>> plus-size
>> market as being pretty much ignored by retailers and manufacturers,
>> leading
>> to a lot of unhappy customers. An under-served market, in other words.
>> Have
>> any women here found manufacturers who do a better job with this than
>> others?
>
> What's "plus size" - a polite term for fat? A friend of mine is a very
> lean
> 5'4", and she has trouble finding women's gear that's /small/ enough.
You may call it what you will, but if people want to ride a bike and get in
better shape, I'm all for encouraging that however possible. Cycling is a
*great* way to move from the couch out into the world outside. My son, now
14, 5'7 or so and 200 pounds, was 5'2 and 220 pounds two years ago. He's
still got a ways to go, but cycling may have saved his life. He was totally
into video games and it wasn't easy reversing the damage. But he's
continuing to get taller at the same time he's losing weight. He's entering
high school in dramatically better shape than might have been the case.
Cycling can change people's lives, and we shouldn't let labels and lack of
suitable apparel get in the way of that.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 19:35:27
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:07:49 -0700, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> You may call it what you will, but if people want to ride a bike and get in
> better shape, I'm all for encouraging that however possible. Cycling is a
> *great* way to move from the couch out into the world outside.
Agreed. The (ahem) big girls I sometimes see in cycling gear prefer
loose, generic male jerseys and shorts with a loose outer layer. I
don't know whether these are female-specific.
> My son, now
> 14, 5'7 or so and 200 pounds, was 5'2 and 220 pounds two years ago. He's
> still got a ways to go, but cycling may have saved his life.
I'm not very good with imperial weights (come on, join the 20th century, at
least!), but that sounds bad. It's certainly going to lengthen his life,
anyway, if he keeps it up.
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 19:43:37
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
Michael Warner wrote:
> ...
> I'm not very good with imperial weights (come on, join the 20th century, at
> least!)...
On uk.rec.cycling, people's weights are usually mentioned in "stones". ;)
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:21:31
From: Andrew Price
Subject: Re: Questions about plus-size women's clothing
|
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:09:51 +0930, Michael Warner
<mvw@westnet.com.au > wrote:
>What's "plus size" - a polite term for fat?
Sure sounds like it !
|
|
