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Date: 23 May 2007 14:19:25
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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On May 23, 7:08 am, dgk <d...@somewhere.com > wrote:
> On 21 May 2007 12:59:08 -0700, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >I sometimes waste a few minutes on the Target or Wally World websites
> >looking at bikes, as it's a mainstream place to look at trends.
> >Today's browse saw some pretty fun and funky beach cruisers, which are
> >a good buy at such a place if you want a real a beater for campus or
> >something similar.
>
> >Saw a couple pretty practical looking bike shaped objects, one was a
> >pretty normal trekking bike:
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/2n5sgo
>
> >And a "Cadillac" bike (giggle), with an SA 8 speed hub and drum
> >brakes!:
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/39h4gh
>
> >Woohoo! Back rest!
>
> >The Wally World site even suggests that we can use their road bike
> >series for commuting, and not just hanging in the garage! How
> >unamerican is that? That Schwinn "Varsity" they're selling looks like
> >it could actually be ridable, compared to the $79 turds they've been
> >pushing for years.
>
> >Not the place I'd get a bike, but if you live in Fife Alabama or
> >Podunk Arkansas and your community consists of a fry joint and a Wally
> >World, your choices are getting better.
>
> I just went with a friend to Target to buy a bike three weeks ago. He
> has no interest in taking up biking for commuting or touring, he just
> wanted something that he could ride through the local parks and some
> nice bike (multiuse) trails. So, we got a sort of hybrid/comfort bike
> for around $160. He could have paid somewhere around $300 at the bike
> shop I use, but frankly he doesn't need to.
This is so true. The notion that someone must go to a "bike shop" and
spend $300+ to get a "decent" bike (and then be "force fed" all those
ace$$ories) discourages people from buying and using bikes.
And, someone who starts out with a modest bike and rides through the
park, etc., has a decent chance of riding more often and further if
they enjoy their early experiences. Doing errands, commuting, riding
with friends, and so on.
>
> The bike works fine. The tires are sensible, almost slicks, which is
> pretty smart for urban riding as opposed to the knobbies. The bike is
> not overly heavy, the gears and brakes work. Will the brakes work when
> it's wet? Maybe, but we won't find out because he isn't going to be
> using it when it's wet.
>
> It's a good compromise. It isn't crap, and he doesn't need something
> that will last for 20,000 miles because he won't be riding it that
> far. He is, at least, on a bike some of the time now.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Date: 23 May 2007 21:19:31
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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On May 23, 10:47 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On May 23, 9:32 pm, "DI" <di9...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1179972435.662010.149170@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > On May 23, 7:25 pm, tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
> > >> In article <1179959449.365551.185...@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > >> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> writes:
>
> > >> > It seems many bike shops are putting up "we do not (or "no longer")
> > >> > service 'department store' bikes." Those signs stay up year 'round, so
> > >> > it's not a "too busy" issue. Rather, I think, it's just someone's
> > >> > misbegotten business plan.
>
> > >> per:http://www.thebicycleplace.com/reviews/index.html
>
> > >> "WALMART, K-Mart, and other Dept. store bought bikes are no
> > >> longer repaired at the Bicycle Place. Our insurance will
> > >> not allow us to even touch Dept. store bicycles."
>
> > > Ah, yes! The ol' "blame it on the insurance company" dodge. BS by any
> > > other name draws as many flies.
>
> > I wouldn't touch one professionally if I were in the business of bike
> > repair. With all the blood sucking lawyers out there ready to pounce on
> > anyone to ever touch one when it breaks and causes injury.-
>
> You've been drinking too much of the LBS Kool-Aid. Get a grip.
No kidding. Even a $120 "path" bike at Wally World can be tuned up to
be an insipid, but reliable bike. You might need to tighten some
spokes, and put in real bearings--but you can dial it in to click
shift and brake just fine. It's not my first choice of bike, but I'm
certainly not going to claim they're a liability. What's gonna fail
first, one piece ashtabula cranks or some under engineered carbon or
alloy 3 piece with vanity grooves (thanks for my new word,
group ;^) )? Even the cringeworthy looking LP brakes do the job. I've
even bought brake blocks at WW for such brakes on a Sunday when the
LBS was closed, and they worked fine. Not Kool-Stops, but meh, they
stopped the bike in the conditions that constitute a Sunday ride for
most folks fine.
[random thought alert]Actually, what would be neat is if WM and the
rest sold basic bike mechanics guides along side the purple streamers
and fake motorcycle spark kits. I'm not even trying to be funny. A lot
of folks that shop at WM have no problem doing pretty complex things
with their cars using Chilton's manuals, so I'm sure they'd appreciate
the same for bikes. [/rta]
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Date: 24 May 2007 21:17:52
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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landotter wrote:
>
> No kidding. Even a $120 "path" bike at Wally World can be tuned up to
> be an insipid, but reliable bike.
Yeah, that's probably true. I got about 10,000 miles out of a $149 Huffy in
the 1990's. A lot of these were winter miles, with lots of road salt.
BUT, who's going to do these tune-ups?
Sure, Carl Fogel could do it (a regular at r.b.t. who rode a *Mart bike
in order to report on it). But, amusement value aside, people like Carl
would rather ride something better.
In general, people who are going to buy a $120 bike aren't generally
going to know how to fix it. There are lots of exceptions, since a bicycle
really isn't that complicated, but fundamentally people who don't change the
oil in their car and don't clean the air filter in their lawnmower as long
as it still starts aren't going to have either the skills or the motivation.
You can still take these bikes to most bike shops. But, depending on
what's covered, a tune-up might cost a third to half the price of the bike.
In general, people will balk at that on principle.
So, the easiest thing to do is to let the bike sit in the garage, as
something to be investigated later. It doesn't get fixed, it doesn't get
ridden, and its presence prevents a better bike from being sold.
As others are posted here, part of the problem is that people say they want
simple, but they buy complicated. They could get a $120 bike with a single
speed, a coaster brake for the back and a hand brake for the front, but what
seems to sell is a $120 bike with suspension, 21+ gears and other stuff that
can break and they don't need (at least in a flat city like Chicago).
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Date: 23 May 2007 20:47:03
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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On May 23, 9:32 pm, "DI" <di9...@cox.net > wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1179972435.662010.149170@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 23, 7:25 pm, tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
> >> In article <1179959449.365551.185...@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> >> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> writes:
>
> >> > It seems many bike shops are putting up "we do not (or "no longer")
> >> > service 'department store' bikes." Those signs stay up year 'round, so
> >> > it's not a "too busy" issue. Rather, I think, it's just someone's
> >> > misbegotten business plan.
>
> >> per:http://www.thebicycleplace.com/reviews/index.html
>
> >> "WALMART, K-Mart, and other Dept. store bought bikes are no
> >> longer repaired at the Bicycle Place. Our insurance will
> >> not allow us to even touch Dept. store bicycles."
>
> > Ah, yes! The ol' "blame it on the insurance company" dodge. BS by any
> > other name draws as many flies.
>
> I wouldn't touch one professionally if I were in the business of bike
> repair. With all the blood sucking lawyers out there ready to pounce on
> anyone to ever touch one when it breaks and causes injury.-
You've been drinking too much of the LBS Kool-Aid. Get a grip.
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Date: 23 May 2007 19:39:22
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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On May 23, 6:08 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
<snipped >
> Probably just to break even the store is spending $50/hour on
> repairs when you take into account wages, benefits, overhead, etc.
Are you being serious????
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Date: 23 May 2007 19:07:15
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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On May 23, 7:25 pm, tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article <1179959449.365551.185...@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> writes:
>
> > It seems many bike shops are putting up "we do not (or "no longer")
> > service 'department store' bikes." Those signs stay up year 'round, so
> > it's not a "too busy" issue. Rather, I think, it's just someone's
> > misbegotten business plan.
>
> per:http://www.thebicycleplace.com/reviews/index.html
>
> "WALMART, K-Mart, and other Dept. store bought bikes are no
> longer repaired at the Bicycle Place. Our insurance will
> not allow us to even touch Dept. store bicycles."
>
Ah, yes! The ol' "blame it on the insurance company" dodge. BS by any
other name draws as many flies.
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Date: 23 May 2007 19:53:06
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> On May 23, 7:25 pm, tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
>> In article <1179959449.365551.185...@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> writes:
>>
>>> It seems many bike shops are putting up "we do not (or "no longer")
>>> service 'department store' bikes." Those signs stay up year 'round, so
>>> it's not a "too busy" issue. Rather, I think, it's just someone's
>>> misbegotten business plan.
>> per:http://www.thebicycleplace.com/reviews/index.html
>>
>> "WALMART, K-Mart, and other Dept. store bought bikes are no
>> longer repaired at the Bicycle Place. Our insurance will
>> not allow us to even touch Dept. store bicycles."
>>
>
> Ah, yes! The ol' "blame it on the insurance company" dodge. BS by any
> other name draws as many flies.
That was the all-purpose excuse of the 1980's. Surely they could come up
with something better by now.
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Date: 23 May 2007 21:32:23
From: DI
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote in message
news:1179972435.662010.149170@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On May 23, 7:25 pm, tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
>> In article <1179959449.365551.185...@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> writes:
>>
>> > It seems many bike shops are putting up "we do not (or "no longer")
>> > service 'department store' bikes." Those signs stay up year 'round, so
>> > it's not a "too busy" issue. Rather, I think, it's just someone's
>> > misbegotten business plan.
>>
>> per:http://www.thebicycleplace.com/reviews/index.html
>>
>> "WALMART, K-Mart, and other Dept. store bought bikes are no
>> longer repaired at the Bicycle Place. Our insurance will
>> not allow us to even touch Dept. store bicycles."
>>
>
> Ah, yes! The ol' "blame it on the insurance company" dodge. BS by any
> other name draws as many flies.
>
I wouldn't touch one professionally if I were in the business of bike
repair. With all the blood sucking lawyers out there ready to pounce on
anyone to ever touch one when it breaks and causes injury.
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Date: 23 May 2007 17:25:26
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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In article <1179959449.365551.185040@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com >,
Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > writes:
> It seems many bike shops are putting up "we do not (or "no longer")
> service 'department store' bikes." Those signs stay up year 'round, so
> it's not a "too busy" issue. Rather, I think, it's just someone's
> misbegotten business plan.
per:
http://www.thebicycleplace.com/reviews/index.html
"WALMART, K-Mart, and other Dept. store bought bikes are no
longer repaired at the Bicycle Place. Our insurance will
not allow us to even touch Dept. store bicycles."
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 23 May 2007 15:30:49
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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On May 23, 4:37 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > And, someone who starts out with a modest bike and rides through the
> > park, etc., has a decent chance of riding more often and further if
> > they enjoy their early experiences. Doing errands, commuting, riding
> > with friends, and so on.
>
> I think the key word here is "modest." Retailers like Sports Authority
> have an excellent selection of what you would call "modest" bicycles.
> There are now some similar bicycles available from places like Target,
> Wal-Mart, & Costco, though often only online. What is unfortunate is the
> people that buy the $49-69 bike at Target or Wal-Mart then don't enjoy
> their early experiences because the equipment is so poor.
IMO, the biggest problem with some of the "cheap" bikes (the simple,
straightforward ones, not the dual suspension horrorshows) is that
they will almost never be properly set up. Someone spending less than
$100 on a bike will be loathe to spend even $25 to get it working
properly. So, as an example, the wheels go wildly out of true, start
rubbing the brake pads, making the bike hard to pedal. Into the garage
it goes.....
>
<snip >
>
> Many of the bicycle shops and manufacturers have written off this whole
> market. I think that they just don't want to waste their time using
> their floor space for modestly priced merchandise, especially if it's at
> the expense of less space for higher prices stuff. So maybe it's all a
> win-win, the people wanting to spend only $200 don't waste the time of
> the bicycle shops for bicycle purchases, but may visit for repairs and
> accessories.
It seems many bike shops are putting up "we do not (or "no longer")
service 'department store' bikes." Those signs stay up year 'round, so
it's not a "too busy" issue. Rather, I think, it's just someone's
misbegotten business plan.
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Date: 24 May 2007 00:03:39
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> IMO, the biggest problem with some of the "cheap" bikes (the simple,
> straightforward ones, not the dual suspension horrorshows) is that
> they will almost never be properly set up. Someone spending less than
> $100 on a bike will be loathe to spend even $25 to get it working
> properly. So, as an example, the wheels go wildly out of true, start
> rubbing the brake pads, making the bike hard to pedal. Into the garage
> it goes.....
I was at Target today, so naturally I headed over to the bicycle
department to check out what they had.
The bikes on the web site are not what's available in the store. They
had a few Schwinn bikes, at up to $179, with Shimano "Tourney." They
were horribly set up, some of the brakes weren't adjusted at all (no
contact with rim, reflectors pointing down, etc. Clearly Target's
definition of "Professionally Assembled" is different from what most
people would think it means. The Magna brand didn't even have the lowest
Shimano or SRAM group, they had some no-name dérailleur.
The good news is that Schwinn is back in the accessory business, but
unfortunately the packaging of the products has omitted "Schwinn Approved."
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Date: 24 May 2007 21:24:38
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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SMS wrote:
> Clearly Target's
> definition of "Professionally Assembled" is different from what most
> people would think it means.
It means the person who assembled it was paid.
During my brief career as a discount store employee I had this duty
occasionally. The tools were basic: crescent wrench, pliers, screwdrivers.
There wasn't time to read the instructions and there was absolutely no
training. I'm sure it's much different now ;)
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Date: 25 May 2007 03:29:02
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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On 2007-05-25, Mike Kruger <MikeKr@mouse-potato.com > wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
>> Clearly Target's
>> definition of "Professionally Assembled" is different from what most
>> people would think it means.
>
> It means the person who assembled it was paid.
>
> During my brief career as a discount store employee I had this duty
> occasionally. The tools were basic: crescent wrench, pliers, screwdrivers.
> There wasn't time to read the instructions and there was absolutely no
> training. I'm sure it's much different now ;)
It is different. When I worked in such a place the bikes were
assembled by "Huffy Certified" contractors who are paid by the bike,
not by the hour. I have no idea what training they had, but they could
throw a bike together in an impressively short amount of time.
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Date: 24 May 2007 05:52:26
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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On 2007-05-23, Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> It seems many bike shops are putting up "we do not (or "no longer")
> service 'department store' bikes." Those signs stay up year 'round, so
> it's not a "too busy" issue. Rather, I think, it's just someone's
> misbegotten business plan.
I've been to one shop that services those bikes (at least in theory),
but requires payment in advance. Apparently they've had problems with
people agreeing to the price, then realizing that they can get a new
bike for about the same money and abandoning the old one at the shop.
Around here, enough people find rigid or front-suspension dept store
mountain bikes serviceable that they account for maybe a third of the
bikes I see on the road. The Wal-Mart double-boingers are the most
popular deck ornament, but I don't see them out & about very often.
In my younger days, I worked at one of those big-box stores right around
the time we got the first model of full-suspension bike in. The design
wasn't too different from a conventional diamond frame, except that
there was a single pivot behind the bottom bracket and the seatstays
passed around the seatpost to connect to the shock, which was attached
to the underside of the top tube and anchored so that it could compress
but not pivot. The rear suspension wouldn't move at all, no matter how
much weight you put on it.
It may very well have been the finest discount store full suspension
bike ever.
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Date: 23 May 2007 16:08:03
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> It seems many bike shops are putting up "we do not (or "no longer")
> service 'department store' bikes." Those signs stay up year 'round, so
> it's not a "too busy" issue. Rather, I think, it's just someone's
> misbegotten business plan.
It may be that they just can't charge enough for repairs to make it
worthwhile. Telling someone that their $59 department store bike needs
$50 worth of work is probably not going to result in much business
anyway. Probably just to break even the store is spending $50/hour on
repairs when you take into account wages, benefits, overhead, etc.
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Date: 23 May 2007 14:37:44
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Interesting bikes at the Target website.
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Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> And, someone who starts out with a modest bike and rides through the
> park, etc., has a decent chance of riding more often and further if
> they enjoy their early experiences. Doing errands, commuting, riding
> with friends, and so on.
I think the key word here is "modest." Retailers like Sports Authority
have an excellent selection of what you would call "modest" bicycles.
There are now some similar bicycles available from places like Target,
Wal-Mart, & Costco, though often only online. What is unfortunate is the
people that buy the $49-69 bike at Target or Wal-Mart then don't enjoy
their early experiences because the equipment is so poor.
I remember the first time taking my son XC skiing. I think he was five
or so, and we got some skis from a friend of mine. The boots were
horrible, with no support, and it made it so miserable that it took
several years to get him out again on skis. It was a bad mistake on my
part to have not gone and rented some better equipment.
Many of the bicycle shops and manufacturers have written off this whole
market. I think that they just don't want to waste their time using
their floor space for modestly priced merchandise, especially if it's at
the expense of less space for higher prices stuff. So maybe it's all a
win-win, the people wanting to spend only $200 don't waste the time of
the bicycle shops for bicycle purchases, but may visit for repairs and
accessories.
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