Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

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Date: 07 Sep 2007 12:55:16
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Review for: Solidlights 1203d
Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
Cost: 155 GBP

Note: TLDR summary at the bottom of article.

For the last two years, I've been using a Lumotec Oval Plus and have
been quite happy with it. Still, I can admit to a small amount of envy
for my batteried brethren who spray the darkness indiscriminately with
decawatts of light. On the other hand, no amount of shininess could
compel me to use one again considering I often go on night time rides
that last longer than five hours.

While lurking in the uk.rec.cycling newsgroup I heard discussion of a
company Solidlights that made LED dynamo headlights with dual LEDs.
Dual 3 watt LEDs. Evidently the Audaxers and commuters who had stumped
up the cash for it were delighted with it.

A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).

With one thing and another, I finally decided to jump in and buy it July
1st. A short week later it had been shipped across the pond to sunny
Seattle and was sitting in my grubby hands.

I first attempted to mount it on the fork. Previously with the Lumotec
mounting there wasn't a problem, even with cantilever brakes.
Unfortunately with the lower boxier shape of the 1203d, the front brake
cable was rubbing the power cable and would have sawed through in time.
[1] A *loooong* fork mount bracket and a spacer later I was happier with
it.

I went on a ride with some friends that night that lasted until after
midnight. I was quite happy with the light, though the limited
stretches of darkness (it was mostly urban riding except for a short
stretch) forbade a really good test. One thing to note is that at low
speeds (6-8 mph) it cast a *much* larger degree of light than my old
lights.

Oh, that mounting bracket? It broke the very next day. Damn potmetal.
Currently the light is attached to a handlebar mounting bracket, and I
haven't had any problems with it.

I went on a longer ride with more stretches of real darkness, and this
is where the light really shined. When I was catching up with a lead
group, one of them commented that he thought I was a car coming from
behind [3]. The light outperformed every battery headlight I have used
previously (including a dual 6w / 12w halogen system). It was
definitely not better than some of the 20-25W HID systems I've seen, but
I was certainly carrying the brightest light of anyone there.

Ease of use: It has a sealed button on the side. Press once to turn
on, once more to change to blinking, once more to turn off. Dead
simple.

Quality of construction: It's a box. A nice sealed, gasketed, sturdy
box. I have a feeling it will last quite a while, though it will win no
awards for style. It has a locking style connector leading to the
dynamo, very nice.

Mounting: Available with a standard fork crown mounting or set up for a
handlebar bracket.

Drag: When it's in blink mode, the drag is unnoticeable. This makes it
particularly attractive for cloudy days and see-me urban riding. The
drag is barely perceptible when on, though I have no doubt it's there.
Theoretically at max speed, I'm losing approximately 12 watts [4]. It's
probably a touch more. On the other hand, I weigh 200 pounds, and I'm
only losing those watts when I'm already near top speed. Smaller riders
might not be so sanguine about that.

Some impressions: This is definitely the product of a small engineering
company. The serial number on my light is 000214, so they're not many
out there. On the other hand, the dynamo lights are evidently an
outgrowth of their battery lights IIRC, so it is a tested design.

Conclusion: I love the light, and really look forward to using it for
my winter commute. It was expensive, but I'm very satisfied with it so
far. I'll see if I can't write a followup review once the darkness has
fallen over our fair city.

TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.

[1] A side or bottom exit for the cable would have alleviated this
problem.
[2] Too Long Didn't Read
[3] This was on a closed bike trail, so I think I scared him.
[4] Shimano DH-3N71 - reputedly about 50% efficient

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
The party adjourned to a hot tub, yes. Fully clothed, I might add.
-- IBM employee, testifying in California State Supreme Court

Date: 18 Sep 2007 21:10:14
From: Andy M-S
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 18, 3:01 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Andy M-S wrote:
> > On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> >> If you're going to use dynamo lights then you really want to carry a multimeter with you at all times to facilitate troubleshooting.
>
> > Oh, now THAT is ridiculous.
>
> > Up until this point, I had considered this a civil discussion, but
> > that blows it out of the water. VOMs/VTVMs (or, if you prefer, DVMs)
> > are desk tools for the most part. I certainly have never needed one
> > to troubleshoot lights in the field!
>
> Obviously sarcasm is difficult to communicate on Usenet. Sorry.
>
> Anyway, given that the other poster couldn't go on his night ride and
> had to troubleshoot the dynamo lighting system at work the next day,
> it's not out of the realm of possibility to need to do have to do repairs.
>
> > I'd worry more about fancy battery systems; there's a place where you
> > want to know what your voltage is.
>
> Actually you don't need to keep track of voltage on the fancy systems,
> they keep track of remaining capacity for you. On the non-fancy systems
> you want to keep track of time, and have an extra battery if you expect
> to be out longer than one battery will last.
>
> > But in either case, I'd plan on carrying some backup lighting...
>
> Very wise.

Problem with some of the fanciest systems is that for reasons beyond
my comprehension, the control electronics run off the same battery as
the light head. The result is that when power drops below a certain
level, the fancy electronics start doing Bad Things. Not unlike the
Soviet Moon rocket (the N-1) they are overly complicated and sometimes
shut things down while they still ought to be working...

Date: 18 Sep 2007 19:34:06
From: Andy M-S
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:

>If you're going to use dynamo lights then you really want to carry a multimeter with you at all times to facilitate troubleshooting.

Oh, now THAT is ridiculous.

Up until this point, I had considered this a civil discussion, but
that blows it out of the water. VOMs/VTVMs (or, if you prefer, DVMs)
are desk tools for the most part. I certainly have never needed one
to troubleshoot lights in the field!

I'd worry more about fancy battery systems; there's a place where you
want to know what your voltage is.

But in either case, I'd plan on carrying some backup lighting...

Date: 18 Sep 2007 13:01:36
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Andy M-S wrote:
> On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you're going to use dynamo lights then you really want to carry a multimeter with you at all times to facilitate troubleshooting.
>
> Oh, now THAT is ridiculous.
>
> Up until this point, I had considered this a civil discussion, but
> that blows it out of the water. VOMs/VTVMs (or, if you prefer, DVMs)
> are desk tools for the most part. I certainly have never needed one
> to troubleshoot lights in the field!

Obviously sarcasm is difficult to communicate on Usenet. Sorry.

Anyway, given that the other poster couldn't go on his night ride and
had to troubleshoot the dynamo lighting system at work the next day,
it's not out of the realm of possibility to need to do have to do repairs.

> I'd worry more about fancy battery systems; there's a place where you
> want to know what your voltage is.

Actually you don't need to keep track of voltage on the fancy systems,
they keep track of remaining capacity for you. On the non-fancy systems
you want to keep track of time, and have an extra battery if you expect
to be out longer than one battery will last.

> But in either case, I'd plan on carrying some backup lighting...

Very wise.

Date: 18 Sep 2007 10:52:25
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 18, 12:54 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
> > SMS wrote:
> >> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
> >> batteries.
>
> > Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
>
> Not selective at all. You were the one that brought up the problem with
> your dynamo lights. How many non-techies have multimeters at work to
> diagnose the problem and fix it. It sounds like you never actually found
> the cause of the problem, you just did the usual stuff of checking and
> cleaning contacts and connections and bulbs. That's the problem with a
> lot of dynamo setups, there are just too many points of failure. That's
> one of the main reasons they're not used as much as in the past.

Let's count "points of failure" for a generator set and for a
rechargeable light set of the type Scharf insistently pushes.

There are two wire connections at the generator. Ditto for the
rechargeable battery. No difference in "points of failure."

There are two wire connections at the headlight for either unit. No
difference in "points of failure."

There are two wire connections at the switch of the battery unit.
There is no switch needed for most generator setups. Two less "points
of failure" for generators.

The rechargeable setups require disconnecting wires frequently for
recharging. This is probably the reason that we hear many tales of
connectors going bad. Likewise, AA-style battery lights have
internal, spring-contact battery contacts that sometimes corrode,
sometimes lose contact. Generator contacts are fixed, not normally
disconnected, so fewer such problems. Another less frequent "point of
failure" for generators.

Both units usually feature wire to connect from the voltage source to
the lamp. Wires can break, but generator wires are usually
permanently fastened in place, meaning much less flexing, and probably
less breaking. Less failure for generators.

Rechargeable batteries have limited life, measured in hundreds of
charges. Generators' lives are measured in mulitiple decades. Less
failure for generators.

Rechargeable setups need a charger - often, a relatively expensive
electronic "smart charger." That brings in the possibility of the
charger's wiring failures, electronic failures, etc. No such failures
with generators.

So what are the "points of failure" you're talking about for generator
sets?

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 18 Sep 2007 16:10:30
From: Andy M-S
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 18, 10:38 am, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sep 18, 11:13 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Peter Clinch wrote:
> > > SMS wrote:
> > >> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
> > >> batteries.
>
> > > Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
> > > I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
> > > used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
> > > weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.
>
> > Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
> > cells if their light is AA powered. Or if in the city, to stop at a 7-11
> > or whatever all-night store is in your country to buy a couple of cells.
>
> Oh, please! Who expects that their AA batteries will conveniently run
> out directly in front of an all-night convenience store?
>
> For the record: I've led night rides for my bike club for, oh, about
> ten years. Not very frequently - probably about three or four such
> rides in most of those years. They've drawn anywhere from three to 15
> riders each time.
>
> Until this year, each and every ride had _some_ problem with someone's
> battery light. The most common problem was just running out of
> disposable battery juice - with the comment being "I thought those
> batteries were new!" Another problem was with rechargeable batteries
> - "Gee, last time I used this battery, it lasted a lot longer before
> it died out." We've had handlebar-mounted C-cell lights fly apart
> when a rider hit a big bump. We've had a flashlight mounted as a
> headlight get into the front wheel spokes and throw a rider, cracking
> her rib. Because of these (and similar) experiences, I never lead
> such a ride without packing extra headlights to use as loaners.
>
> Now, admittedly, there have been only about six of us who have used
> generator lights on these rides. But the generator lights have been
> perfectly reliable, every time.
>
> The ride last month had four riders, one of whom - a new rider - was
> using a small LED bike light powered by (I think) AA batteries. No
> particular problems that ride - except that they guy found out that
> his AA light was just not bright enough. Certainly, it was nowhere
> near my generator set's illumination.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

If you need to carry a battery-operated spare, I can't think of one
that's a better value than this one:

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302692895&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442621577&bmUID=1190131782373

I got some for my kids...and I keep one in my pannier, with one
battery reversed, JUST IN CASE. But I have yet to have hub gen
problems...(knocks on wood)

Date: 18 Sep 2007 15:38:22
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 18, 11:13 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
> > SMS wrote:
> >> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
> >> batteries.
>
> > Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
> > I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
> > used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
> > weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.
>
> Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
> cells if their light is AA powered. Or if in the city, to stop at a 7-11
> or whatever all-night store is in your country to buy a couple of cells.

Oh, please! Who expects that their AA batteries will conveniently run
out directly in front of an all-night convenience store?

For the record: I've led night rides for my bike club for, oh, about
ten years. Not very frequently - probably about three or four such
rides in most of those years. They've drawn anywhere from three to 15
riders each time.

Until this year, each and every ride had _some_ problem with someone's
battery light. The most common problem was just running out of
disposable battery juice - with the comment being "I thought those
batteries were new!" Another problem was with rechargeable batteries
- "Gee, last time I used this battery, it lasted a lot longer before
it died out." We've had handlebar-mounted C-cell lights fly apart
when a rider hit a big bump. We've had a flashlight mounted as a
headlight get into the front wheel spokes and throw a rider, cracking
her rib. Because of these (and similar) experiences, I never lead
such a ride without packing extra headlights to use as loaners.

Now, admittedly, there have been only about six of us who have used
generator lights on these rides. But the generator lights have been
perfectly reliable, every time.

The ride last month had four riders, one of whom - a new rider - was
using a small LED bike light powered by (I think) AA batteries. No
particular problems that ride - except that they guy found out that
his AA light was just not bright enough. Certainly, it was nowhere
near my generator set's illumination.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 18 Sep 2007 14:36:21
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 15, 9:50 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
>
> It's rather amusing to here stories about "car drivers complaining." Has
> _anyone_ ever had an oncoming car driver or a car traveling in the same
> direction, turn around or stop to complain about someone's bicycle
> lights? When you're driving (or cycling), and someone has their high
> beams on, you may bitch about it to yourself, but other than flashing
> your high beams as a signal for them to dim their lights, do you chase
> them to complain to them? It may well be that some drivers _are_ annoyed
> by bicycle HID lights, just as some drivers are annoyed by vehicle HID
> lights, but they don't run around complaining about it!
>
> I don't believe these stories of drivers complaining. They come from the
> same people that make up other bizarre stories and hence are not credible.On Sep 15, 9:50 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> It's rather amusing to here stories about "car drivers complaining." Has
> _anyone_ ever had an oncoming car driver or a car traveling in the same
> direction, turn around or stop to complain about someone's bicycle
> lights? When you're driving (or cycling), and someone has their high
> beams on, you may bitch about it to yourself, but other than flashing
> your high beams as a signal for them to dim their lights, do you chase
> them to complain to them? It may well be that some drivers _are_ annoyed
> by bicycle HID lights, just as some drivers are annoyed by vehicle HID
> lights, but they don't run around complaining about it!
>
> I don't believe these stories of drivers complaining. They come from the
> same people that make up other bizarre stories and hence are not credible.

I have had a couple instances where _I_ have complained about other
cyclists' over-powered and underfocused lights. In both cases I was
on MUPs, each about 8 feet wide. The guys coming the other way nearly
blinded me, despite my trying to shade my eyes with my hand.

Face it: There are reasons for the regulations about vehicle lights
and blinding oncoming vehicle operators. There are reasons for
standards for beam cutoff and laws about dimming high beams. If a
cyclist thinks he needs headlights as bright as a motorcycle, but he
doesn't need to keep the glare out of others' eyes, he's being a
phobic, self-centered ass.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 19 Sep 2007 06:56:21
From: Claire Petersky
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

<frkrygow@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190126181.741971.49080@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...

> I have had a couple instances where _I_ have complained about other
> cyclists' over-powered and underfocused lights. In both cases I was
> on MUPs, each about 8 feet wide. The guys coming the other way nearly
> blinded me, despite my trying to shade my eyes with my hand.

This has also been extensively discussed on our local board. I personally
hate being dazzled by someone riding on the I-90 trail in the winter gloom.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Date: 19 Sep 2007 09:57:49
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Claire Petersky <cpetersky@mouse-potato.com > wrote:
> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1190126181.741971.49080@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
>> I have had a couple instances where _I_ have complained about other
>> cyclists' over-powered and underfocused lights. In both cases I was
>> on MUPs, each about 8 feet wide. The guys coming the other way nearly
>> blinded me, despite my trying to shade my eyes with my hand.
>
> This has also been extensively discussed on our local board. I personally
> hate being dazzled by someone riding on the I-90 trail in the winter gloom.

Yes, I'll have to be much more conscious of my light use now. On the
other hand, the imbeciles with very bright helmet lamps that turn to
look directly at your face are my personal least favorite.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
Hi! I'm Larry. This is my brother Bob, and this is my other brother
Jimbo. We thought you might like to know the names of your assailants.

Date: 16 Sep 2007 01:15:07
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 15, 4:28 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
>
>
> As to the safety of HID, see:
> From "http://www.sheldonbrown.com/marty_light_hist.html"

Hmm. With the rapid changes in bike lighting, a 1996 article is
missing a lot.

> Steve
> "http://bicyclelighting.com"
> Earth's Source for Bicycle Lighting Information

And a website filled with bias misleads a lot! Too much of that
website consists of these debates, rescripted so Steven M. Scharf can
finally "win" - at least, in his own mind.

I think a better source for bike lighting information is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_lighting
It's much more balanced

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 15 Sep 2007 00:17:32
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 14, 2:54 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Tim McNamara wrote:
> > In article <46ea9835$0$27253$742ec...@news.sonic.net>,
> > SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Ken Kifer is someone I admire because he was able to go beyond what
> >> we see in this newsgroup. He didn't have the attitude of 'everyone
> >> should do what I do because if they don't that somehow reflects
> >> negatively on my choices,'
>
> > Then perhaps you should take him for a role model.
>
> As far as lighting goes, I do.

Except you continue your strong, distorted arguments against the
lighting system he used.

> I just wish you and a few others would take to heart his advice on the
> best lights for commuting.

I'm sure I knew Ken much better than most people posting here -
unless, that is, others corresponded with him frequently, as I did,
and unless others worked with him on websites, as I did, and unless
he'd planned to visit others on his tours, as he planned to visit my
wife and me. Sadly, he died before making it here.

Ken was a good man, and a very unusual one. He had his failings, and
he was not perfect - but none of us are perfect. He was not
infallible, but he was usually tolerant of others' opinions, and he
was usually open to changing his own opinion.

But I do think he'd be very riled at Steven M. Scharf using his name
in vain over one sentence. And I think that if he were in this
discussion, he'd be arguing against Scharf.

> I wish none you any harm, and the fact that
> you've been lucky so far with low power lights does not diminish the
> advice of Kifer and so many, many, other experts and organizations.

We've been "lucky"?

"Lucky" is when something happens once, or twice, or three times. But
when someone is "lucky" thousands of times in a row, with never an
incident of "unlucky," a rational person realizes it's not luck.

I've cycled at night using just my generator set thousands of times,
in all sorts of conditions - zero traffic to heavy traffic, total
darkness to well-lit streets, city and suburb and country roads and
bike paths. My success with these lights is not "luck." The same is
true for other generator users posting here.

> Just look at some the really idiotic statements that are made in this
> lighting thread, and previous ones. Suddenly I'm now selling MR16 based
> systems?

IIRC, the statement was that you _used_ to sell rechargeable MR-based
systems. The poster was wrong only in that your failed commercial
attempt involved a different lamp. You're obviously still prejudiced
in favor of the system you couldn't sell.

> Suddenly you only need good illumination when you're going down
> a hill?

My! You do set up lots of straw men, don't you? It's the same
technique you use when "arguing" on your website, where people can't
correct your false claims.

Why not use direct quotes, instead of putting words in people's
mouths?

> And people think that this kind of crap convinces others!

I'm not seeing many posters convinced by your crap.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 14 Sep 2007 03:20:36
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 13, 3:12 pm, "russellseat...@yahoo.com"
<russellseat...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> .
>
> Battery (disposable or rechargeable) lights are needed for people who
> ride seriously at night.

Um... except for those people who choose to ride Paris-Brest-Paris and
similar events using generator lights.

> If your only night riding is from the pub to
> home after leaving your university job, then either will work fine.
> For those who happen to be riding all night in France in August in the
> rain and cool temps and have to stop for an extended period of time to
> fix a flat tire will appreciate a battery powered light.

I handle that by carrying a small LED light. By small, I mean one of
the ones that fits on a keychain and is powered by a coin battery, CR
1616 or such. It weighs about an ounce.

> Generator
> lights don't produce any light when they aren't moving.

Yep. We all know that's usually true.

> And the LED
> standlights only stay lit for a few minutes, not enough time to do any
> work.

I've never bothered with a standlight. My bike has reflectors for
conspicuity when stopped. A few years ago, I was given a white front
blinky as a gift, and that's a further help, at far less cost than a
built-in standlight. But I never had any problems before it arrived.

> Only a fool would go on a serious night ride without a compliment of
> lights.

Oh, I've gotten spontaneous compliments on my light system from
motorists!

Or did you mean complement? ;-) Well, I've got that too. I use a
battery blinky taillight. I carry one of those tiny flashlights.
I've got the generator headlight (in fact, currently I'm playing with
two on my utility bike). And I've got that front blinky.

It's that complement of lights - plus the reflectors - that's drawn
compliments from motorists. But, FWIW, I've also done perfectly well
with just one headlight, a blinky taillight, and reflectors. It's
just not that bad out there!

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 14 Sep 2007 09:06:01
From: Dave Larrington
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In news:1189740036.300154.210370@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com,
frkrygow@gmail.com <frkrygow@gmail.com > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
us:
> On Sep 13, 3:12 pm, "russellseat...@yahoo.com"
> <russellseat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> .
>>
>> Battery (disposable or rechargeable) lights are needed for people who
>> ride seriously at night.
>
> Um... except for those people who choose to ride Paris-Brest-Paris and
> similar events using generator lights.

Well, quite. Out of the group of six riders occupying our little corner of
the pre-PBP swamp^w campsite, five were using hub dynamos and young Philip
spent a long time faffing over which brand of spare flatteries[1] to take
with him and "modifying" his front lights with a hot glue gun to ensure they
stayed in place at the spot some 20 km in where, we were assured, a speed
bump always made it rain bike lights.

At my sort of speed, any brevet longer than 200 km, and a 200 between
September and the start of BST, is going to need bright and reliable lights.
That's why I, and probably a significant proportion of Audax UK members,
have opted to use dynamo lights.

1 - when he wasn't being seriously tempted by Carrefour's 20 Euro bottle
dynamo set, that is.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk >
Flies are the work of Stan, and should be killed by all means
available.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 12:33:58
From: Frank Miles
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Dane Buson wrote:

> In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> M-gineering wrote:
>>> SMS wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
>>> be sporting
>>
>> Which would show you 12V/6W bottle dynamos. Sure the SON can be pushed
>> to that at higher speeds, but it's not practical for many users.
>
> Why not? The only time you need the very top of the watt range is going
> downhill. Anyone can coast down a hill.

[snip sig]

IMHE riding in the rain, at night can seem to absorb almost every photon
put out by any kind of light. There just doesn't seem to be much of
anything reflected back sometimes, even with my current 20W halogen
system.

This is not a rare experience - it rains a lot here in the winter,
when I'm commuting :(

I hope to go back to a generator-based system when my current
rechargable battery (7 A-hr) fails, but hopefully by then what now
is outrageously expensive will be less so.

-f

Date: 13 Sep 2007 12:12:22
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 13, 10:09 am, Peter Clinch <p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk > wrote:
> russellseat...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Huh? Connecting and disconnecting the wires on a hub light is about 5
> > seconds. If this is the best argument you can come up with, you lose.
>
> Plus the fiddle of moving the wheel over, manoeuvring it through the
> brakes etc. 5 seconds? Yeah, right... and your hands will stay clean
> too, no doubt...

This is what you wrote:
"Undoing, redoing the connectors is going to be a bigger and dirtier
faff
than moving a light/battery designed for easy removal/replacement. I
just really wouldn't want to go there."

And I wrote
"Connecting and disconnecting the wires on a hub light is about 5
seconds."

5 seconds is about right. Now you add in changing the wheel. Are you
going to add in lacing and truing the wheel next? And getting my
hands dirty? I've never been afraid of dirt in my life.

You are arguing against one generator hub serving multiple bikes due
to the uncleanliness of changing hub wheels from bike to bike and the
time and effort it takes to disconnect the wires? Your signature line
at the bottom says you work in an IT department for a university in
Scotland. Wow.

>
> > Now, putting a separate light on each bike and switching the generator
> > wheel is also not practical for those of us who like quality generator
> > produced light.
>
> I find just running more than one hub and one light works. Not cheap,
> but then nor are the rest of the bikes they're attached to. Hey ho.
> Still sooner pay the money than prat around with charging batteries all
> the time...

Battery (disposable or rechargeable) lights are needed for people who
ride seriously at night. If your only night riding is from the pub to
home after leaving your university job, then either will work fine.
For those who happen to be riding all night in France in August in the
rain and cool temps and have to stop for an extended period of time to
fix a flat tire will appreciate a battery powered light. Generator
lights don't produce any light when they aren't moving. And the LED
standlights only stay lit for a few minutes, not enough time to do any
work. And hard to direct a standlight to where you need the light.
Only a fool would go on a serious night ride without a compliment of
lights.

>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 22:02:06
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <1189710742.762516.154790@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>5 seconds is about right. Now you add in changing the wheel. Are you
>going to add in lacing and truing the wheel next?
[...]
>You are arguing against one generator hub serving multiple bikes

Hint - does one using one hub on several bikes always involve changing
the wheel? Does it involve lacing and truing the wheel? Spotted the
difference?

Date: 13 Sep 2007 21:05:54
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

> russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> 5 seconds is about right. Now you add in changing the wheel. Are you
>> going to add in lacing and truing the wheel next?
> [...]
>> You are arguing against one generator hub serving multiple bikes

Alan Braggins wrote:
> Hint - does one using one hub on several bikes always involve changing
> the wheel? Does it involve lacing and truing the wheel? Spotted the
> difference?

As with light system format, it's kinda personal. For me, using one
wheel in 2 bikes would mean tediously swapping in March and then right
back again in November. The horror of inconvenience! (I just use a
bolt-on dynamo on Bike #2)

This has been humorous but silly. Battery lights are widely varied as
are dynamo systems. There's more difference within each range than
between the two groups as groups. Let's move on.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Date: 14 Sep 2007 22:09:25
From: Patrick Lamb
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:05:54 -0500, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org >
wrote:
>This has been humorous but silly. Battery lights are widely varied as
>are dynamo systems. There's more difference within each range than
>between the two groups as groups. Let's move on.

You've got to be kidding! It's autumn in the northern hemisphere! It
gets dark early! What, you think we'll all stop posting and go ride a
bike!! In the dark???

;)

Email address works as is.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 10:31:19
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 13, 12:44 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>
> > Again I remind you I have changed from the sort of system you are
> > espousing *precisely because I didn't like it as much as a dynamo*, even
> > though I thought it was okay before I'd tried the modern dynamo setup.
>
> > But you're still deperately ignoring anyone who feels that way. Why?
>
> I don't ignore them. But I would like them to stop making up all these
> stories and excuses. If avoiding charging batteries, either out of
> necessity (multi-day all night rides) or out of a desire to avoid
> connecting a charger, then that's certainly a valid preference, however
> silly the latter may appear to some.

There are also the hassles of remembering to attach the system to the
bike if planning to maybe get caught out after dark - or somehow
getting home after dark if one forgot.

There's the hassle of spending up to $50 every few years for a
replacement battery, after it's taken its maximum number of
recharges.

There's the hassle of either remembering not to overcharge your
battery and cook it prematurely, or finding an expensive "smart"
charger to prevent overcharging, or cobbling together a kluged timer
system to solve the same problem.

There's the hassle of repairing connectors, since the wiring and
connectors for rechargeables go through a lot more motion, plugging
and unplugging than those of a firmly wired generator set.

There's just the hassle of having to worry about lights at all. With
the generator systems on my bikes, I just jump on and ride. It
doesn't matter if I'm at home or on vacation or on tour. It doesn't
matter if I want to ride ten minutes or ten hours. It doesn't matter
if I used it last night all night, because I can't "discharge" it. It
doesn't matter if I'm locking my bike in a sketchy neighborhood,
because nobody can steal the light.

The headlight system is always there, it always works, as reliably as
the headlight system on my car or my motorcycle. I can't see settling
for anything less.

> The experts
> agree that a very bright rechargeable battery powered lighting system is
> the best system for commuting, precisely because the dynamo systems
> cannot produce sufficient power.

The experts posting here seem to disagree with you!

Of course, we're familiar with you deciding, entirely on your own, who
is "expert" and who is not. When a person's self-built web page
proclaims himself to be one of the "world's greatest experts," how can
you expect impartiality?

Oh, and it's pretty slimy to misstate others' arguments on your own
web page, and "rebut" them where nobody can correct your lies!

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 13 Sep 2007 10:15:29
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 13, 11:35 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
>
> There's a misunderstanding, apparently among at least a couple of
> people, that the optics of the typical light used with dynamo systems is
> some wonder of technology that creates more light than other systems.

Not at all. As usual, you're misstating the arguments of your
opponents - that is, building straw men so you can knock them down.

The optics of a typical dynamo headlamp put the light where it is
needed - on the road, with only the proper amount directed toward
motorists' eyes, for conspicuity. It's exactly the same thing that is
done with all OEM car headlights and motorcycle headlights. This is
in contrast with MR-series bulbs, which are designed to spray light in
a uniform fog for lighting things like projector screens and wall
hangings.

Vehicle headlights use precise optics - except those vehicle
headlights that are cobbled together by small companies on the cheap.
Such companies just grab MR bulbs and put them in a housing.
Unfortunately, most rechargeable bike headlights seem to be made by
that sort of company.

>
> In fact, these lamps are specifically designed as a compromise solution.

_Everything_ is designed as a compromise solution. An engineer should
know that!

> As to the MR16, the big advantage of this type of lamp, and the reason
> it is so widely used (along with the MR11) in bicycle lamps, is because
> of the precision matched reflector and the precise positioning of the
> bulb inside the reflector.

You have never provided evidence that the "precision match" is any
better than that of a typical generator headlamp. But more to the
point, you have never explained why an unshaped fog of light streaming
from an MR bulb should be called "precision." How can fog be
precise?

Shine an MR beam at a wall. Do the same for a car's headlamp, and for
a bike generator headlamp. It should be obvious which has the worst
optics for a road application.

> I'm sure Frank will
> start up with his usual mindless comments about "decorator lamps" but in
> fact the MR lamps are used in a wide variety of scientific, consumer,
> and commercial products because of their efficiency.

Bullshit. They are used because of their common availability -
because you can go to a hardware store and buy them off the shelf.
And because they're fine if you want them to show off your wall
hangings, or your product display, or the plants around your house.
No shaped beam needed there.

If they're so wonderful for road use, why doesn't Honda, or BMW, or
General Motors do away with the shaped optics in their headlamp beams,
and just go with a few 50 Watt MR bulbs from Home Depot?

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 13 Sep 2007 19:33:46
From: Ace
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:15:29 -0700, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:

>This is
>in contrast with MR-series bulbs, which are designed to spray light in
>a uniform fog for lighting things like projector screens and wall
>hangings.
>
>Vehicle headlights use precise optics - except those vehicle
>headlights that are cobbled together by small companies on the cheap.
>Such companies just grab MR bulbs and put them in a housing.
>Unfortunately, most rechargeable bike headlights seem to be made by
>that sort of company.

In practise though, as long as you point them in the right direction,
the MR-11 type lights do actually put a lot of light onto the road
where you want it without over-blinding oncoming traffic. They are, to
be fair, predicated upon producing more light than they really need
for this application, such that the 'wasted' light doesn't matter, but
I've been using such things for years and been very happy with them.

Particularly off-road, of course, but I appreciate that this is
another matter.
--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom

Date: 13 Sep 2007 10:02:51
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 13, 11:16 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
>
> For my Dahon folder, which I use extensively at night, I am planning to
> purchase the wheel with the hub dynamo, and the excellent light that
> Dahon is remarketing with a low wattage bulb suitable for dynamo use.
> But it isn't going to cost $300!

:-) Of course it isn't going to cost $300!

Those of us who have discussed this with you in the past know that you
like to pretend generator sets are all terribly expensive. But fewer
than 1% of the generator sets used worldwide cost anything like $300!
The last generator I bought cost roughly $10 when I was in Europe.
I've never paid more than $50 for a complete outfit.

Yes, it's possible to spend $1000 on a set of competition wheels for
your bicycle, if you want the absolute lightest weight and best
aerodynamics. Yes, it's possible to spend hundreds of dollars on a
generator set, if you want the absolute pinnacle of efficiency,
reliability and optics. That doesn't mean that a $100 wheelset, or a
$50 generator, isn't perfectly adequate for most non-competitive uses.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/dynamos.html

http://www.thethirdhand.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Accessories&sc=Generator&tc=&item_id=UF-23009&id=267672112085

or http://tinyurl.com/yvk3fo

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 13 Sep 2007 09:50:35
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 13, 11:53 am, Ace <see...@virgin.net > wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:47:48 +0100, Peter Clinch
>
> <p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
> >Different folk, different mileages. But Scharf can't see that AFAICT,
> >he just appears to assume dynamo users are self-deluding luddites who
> >refuse to use an objectively better system, where in actuality they're
> >typically people who find dynamos work better for them than rechargeable
> >systems, for whatever genuine practical reasons.
>
> TBH I find this whole argumentative appraoch difficlut to understand,
> and all to prevelant on urc. AFAICT no-one is actually claiming that
> their own approach is better for everyone all the time, but the
> ill-feeling generated seems to assume that they are.
>
> In my world, I'm happy to discuss alternatives even if I'm commmited
> to a particular solution; I'll be happy to explain why I made my
> choice and why/if I still think its best for me, but don't expect
> other folk to suddenly change their views. Quite why people here need
> to feel that there's always a right and a wrong solution I have no
> idea.

I think you may be rather new to these discussions. Some of us have
dealt with Steven M. Scharf's nonsense for years, and have grown quite
tired of it, and his prejudicial rejection of our knowledge and (most
importantly) our experience.

Among the misinformation Scharf spews are the following:

Scharf says one supposedly cannot be safe riding at night with a
generator light - even though more cyclists use generators than
batteries, worldwide, and even though many of us have done so for
decades.

Scharf says no generator light with less than 12 Volts and 6 Watts is
adequate - even though almost all generators used successfully
worldwide are rated at 6 Volts, 3 Watts, including the ones all of us
use.

Scharf says a person must spend over $250 to equip a bike with a
generator system - even though I've repeatedly given links to
perfectly adequate systems starting at about $35.

Scharf says MR-11 and MR-16 bulbs originally designed for projector
use, accent lighting, and yard lighting have the best optics for road
riding - although they spray a radially symmetrical fog of light
completely unlike the headlamps of any other road vehicle.

Scharf says anyone can easily build a rechargeable light set with a
minimum expense and trouble - although he requires many screens worth
of instructions to list the multiple web sources for required parts,
plus give details of construction.

Scharf routinely confuses concepts like candlepower, lumens, and Watts
- for example, stating minimum lighting requirements in terms of Volts
and Watts, rather than in units of light; and confusing units of light
- for example, claiming changing a reflector on a bulb will increase
the number of lumens the bulb emits.

Most importantly, Scharf is one of those Usenet kooks who repeatedly
loses arguments here, and so moves the discussion to his own website,
where he can misrepresent the statements of his many opponents without
fear of correction, and where he can misrepresent himself as an
"expert" despite his inability to grasp even the fundamental
measurements of light.

Those of us who speak in favor of generators have generally decided on
them after trying other alternatives (like those Scharf pushes).
We've decided generators are better for our applications. I know I've
never claimed generators are best for, say, off-road work, nor for all
cyclists. He has, however, repeatedly claimed that nobody can safely
cycle at reasonable speed with a generator set.

I will react when someone like Scharf says I can't safely do what I've
been safely doing for decades.

And I confess to an unwillingness to let technical misinformation go
uncontested. I don't like pseudo-technical-experts deluding people.
That comes from my background as a registered Professional Engineer
and technical educator.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 13 Sep 2007 07:09:07
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 13, 4:16 am, Peter Clinch <p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk > wrote:
> David Damerell wrote:
> > Quoting Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net>:
> >> a...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
> >>> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put
> >>> one on all your bikes the cost goes up further.
> >> It's easy to put a lamp on each bike and just swap the wheel
>
> > This is a lovely theory. One 700C bike. One 700C tandem with a big chunky
> > rim. One 16" bike. And now one 650B bike.
>
> > ... still well worth a SON apiece, but...
>
> wot David says... Even if the wheels are the same then, no thanks!
> Undoing, redoing the connectors is going to be a bigger and dirtier faff
> than moving a light/battery designed for easy removal/replacement. I
> just really wouldn't want to go there.

Huh? Connecting and disconnecting the wires on a hub light is about 5
seconds. If this is the best argument you can come up with, you lose.

Now, putting a separate light on each bike and switching the generator
wheel is also not practical for those of us who like quality generator
produced light. Quality means Schmidt E6 lights or those Solidlights
if they are as good or better. The E6 is $105. Plus $15 for the
mounting bracket. Plus $10 for the fork mount. $130 of extra lights
on each bike you want to switch the generator to. Sort of hard to
justify. So I have one bike I use for night riding. Works fine.

>
> One should acknowledge that Scharf manages to stumble across a genuine
> point from time to time!
>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 16:09:40
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:

> Huh? Connecting and disconnecting the wires on a hub light is about 5
> seconds. If this is the best argument you can come up with, you lose.

Plus the fiddle of moving the wheel over, manoeuvring it through the
brakes etc. 5 seconds? Yeah, right... and your hands will stay clean
too, no doubt...

> Now, putting a separate light on each bike and switching the generator
> wheel is also not practical for those of us who like quality generator
> produced light.

I find just running more than one hub and one light works. Not cheap,
but then nor are the rest of the bikes they're attached to. Hey ho.
Still sooner pay the money than prat around with charging batteries all
the time...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 18:25:36
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <5kt25dF5ff5rU1@mid.individual.net >,
Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote:

> russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Huh? Connecting and disconnecting the wires on a hub light is
> > about 5 seconds. If this is the best argument you can come up
> > with, you lose.
>
> Plus the fiddle of moving the wheel over, manoeuvring it through the
> brakes etc. 5 seconds? Yeah, right... and your hands will stay
> clean too, no doubt...

With an occasional cleaning of my bikes, yes indeed my hands stay clean.

> > Now, putting a separate light on each bike and switching the
> > generator wheel is also not practical for those of us who like
> > quality generator produced light.

Umm. Whyever not? It's what I do and I find it quite practical.

Date: 14 Sep 2007 00:35:20
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote in message
news:timmcn-1C2BFF.18253613092007@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <5kt25dF5ff5rU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> > Huh? Connecting and disconnecting the wires on a hub light is
>> > about 5 seconds. If this is the best argument you can come up
>> > with, you lose.
>>
>> Plus the fiddle of moving the wheel over, manoeuvring it through the
>> brakes etc. 5 seconds? Yeah, right... and your hands will stay
>> clean too, no doubt...
>
> With an occasional cleaning of my bikes, yes indeed my hands stay clean.
>
>> > Now, putting a separate light on each bike and switching the
>> > generator wheel is also not practical for those of us who like
>> > quality generator produced light.
>
> Umm. Whyever not? It's what I do and I find it quite practical.

Am I just disturbingly rich or something? It never even occurred to me to
swap wheels between bikes but leave the lighting and wiring in place - I
just got more front wheels instead. I build my own, which I guess makes it a
bit easier and cheaper, but we've still ended up with 4 dynohubs in the
house, soon to be 6. First one is now about 10 years old (ooh, happy
anniversary to it). One of the original Shimano NX-10, still going well,
probably with a couple of tens of thousands of miles on it.

cheers,
clive

Date: 13 Sep 2007 17:20:07
From: Ace
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:09:40 +0100, Peter Clinch
<p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote:

>I find just running more than one hub and one light works. Not cheap,
>but then nor are the rest of the bikes they're attached to. Hey ho.
>Still sooner pay the money than prat around with charging batteries all
>the time...

AAMOI how much night riding do you do? My old Lumicycle set seems to
only need charging once in a blue moon, but then I'm only running it
at 10W for fifteen minutes at a time a couple of time a week. As such,
the extra effort of plugging it into the charger (doesn't need
removing from bike) is no big deal at all.

But for that matter, even when I was using it a lot more (cycling 20
miles to work every day, summer & winter) I'd just make sure the
charger was in a convenient place in the garage and plug it in
overnight. Which is why I've never even considered, and still
wouldn't, a dynamo-based system.

--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom

Date: 13 Sep 2007 08:53:21
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Ace wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:09:40 +0100, Peter Clinch
> <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> I find just running more than one hub and one light works. Not cheap,
>> but then nor are the rest of the bikes they're attached to. Hey ho.
>> Still sooner pay the money than prat around with charging batteries all
>> the time...
>
> AAMOI how much night riding do you do? My old Lumicycle set seems to
> only need charging once in a blue moon, but then I'm only running it
> at 10W for fifteen minutes at a time a couple of time a week. As such,
> the extra effort of plugging it into the charger (doesn't need
> removing from bike) is no big deal at all.
>
> But for that matter, even when I was using it a lot more (cycling 20
> miles to work every day, summer & winter) I'd just make sure the
> charger was in a convenient place in the garage and plug it in
> overnight. Which is why I've never even considered, and still
> wouldn't, a dynamo-based system.

One very useful advance in battery technology is the Sanyo eneloop NiMH
cells with very low self-discharge (even lower than Li-Ion or Sealed
Lead Acid). So for infrequently used systems, you don't have to always
worry about keeping it charged up to compensate for self-discharge.

It just takes a tiny bit of effort to charge a light, similar to the
effort it takes to charge your cell phone or laptop computer. How this
turned into "prat around with charging batteries all the time" is
testament to the desperate excuses that people come up with.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 17:04:23
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote in message
news:46e95ca3$0$27159$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

> It just takes a tiny bit of effort to charge a light, similar to the
> effort it takes to charge your cell phone or laptop computer. How this
> turned into "prat around with charging batteries all the time" is
> testament to the desperate excuses that people come up with.

It's experience. Some people don't mind the faff, others do. Those who don't
mind it probably don't even think of it as faff, so may well not understand
that others feel that it is.

Your inability to understand that other people may not feel the same way as
you about such issues is telling.

clive

Date: 13 Sep 2007 16:56:04
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> It just takes a tiny bit of effort to charge a light, similar to the
> effort it takes to charge your cell phone or laptop computer.

And I don't like doing that either.

> How this
> turned into "prat around with charging batteries all the time" is
> testament to the desperate excuses that people come up with.

No, it's based on having to prat around charging batteries. It's
something I don't like to have to do (aside from anything else, I can't
use the thing while it's charging), so if there's an easy way to avoid
that I'll do it. That's why I did it.

Again I remind you I have changed from the sort of system you are
espousing *precisely because I didn't like it as much as a dynamo*, even
though I thought it was okay before I'd tried the modern dynamo setup.

But you're still deperately ignoring anyone who feels that way. Why?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 09:44:15
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
>> It just takes a tiny bit of effort to charge a light, similar to the
>> effort it takes to charge your cell phone or laptop computer.
>
> And I don't like doing that either.
>
>> How this
>> turned into "prat around with charging batteries all the time" is
>> testament to the desperate excuses that people come up with.
>
> No, it's based on having to prat around charging batteries. It's
> something I don't like to have to do (aside from anything else, I can't
> use the thing while it's charging), so if there's an easy way to avoid
> that I'll do it. That's why I did it.
>
> Again I remind you I have changed from the sort of system you are
> espousing *precisely because I didn't like it as much as a dynamo*, even
> though I thought it was okay before I'd tried the modern dynamo setup.
>
> But you're still deperately ignoring anyone who feels that way. Why?

I don't ignore them. But I would like them to stop making up all these
stories and excuses. If avoiding charging batteries, either out of
necessity (multi-day all night rides) or out of a desire to avoid
connecting a charger, then that's certainly a valid preference, however
silly the latter may appear to some.

But stop it there. The endless rationalizations about how sufficient the
illumination is are not something anyone that looks at the issue
rationally actually believes.

The actual power source is immaterial, what matters is whether or not
the power source is capable of powering adequate lamps. The experts
agree that a very bright rechargeable battery powered lighting system is
the best system for commuting, precisely because the dynamo systems
cannot produce sufficient power.

See the "Myths and Facts" section of the website for more gems.

Steve
http://bicyclelighting.com or type "Bicycle Lighting" into the Google
search box, then click "I'm Feeling Lucky."

Date: 15 Sep 2007 14:58:23
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

in message <46e96890$0$27157$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >, SMS
('scharf.steven@geemail.com') wrote:

> I don't ignore them. But I would like them to stop making up all these
> stories and excuses. If avoiding charging batteries, either out of
> necessity (multi-day all night rides) or out of a desire to avoid
> connecting a charger, then that's certainly a valid preference, however
> silly the latter may appear to some.
>
> But stop it there. The endless rationalizations about how sufficient the
> illumination is are not something anyone that looks at the issue
> rationally actually believes.

You do write a lot of bollocks, you know. In parts of the world where night
riding is something routine that everyone does (Holland, Denmark,
Germany), dynamos are almost universal. In parts of the world where night
cycling is rare and eccentric (Great Britain, the United States), dynamos
are rare /except/ among those groups of people who ride regularly at
night.

Why is this, do you suppose?

Do you think the Danes, the Dutch and the Germans are either poorer or less
technically advanced than the citizens of the United States? Do you think
they are genetically endowed with vastly better eyesight?

Or could it be that they've actually tried a properly set up dynamo system,
and know from experience that it is just enormously better and more
reliable than any battery system?

In the US you can get away with spouting arrant prejudiced nonsense about
dynamo lighting systems, and 99% of the time you get away with it because
no-one else has ever tried one either so they can't contradict you. In
Europe, however, we have tried them, we do know how good they are, and we
do know when someone is talking complete bollocks.

> The actual power source is immaterial, what matters is whether or not
> the power source is capable of powering adequate lamps. The experts
> agree that a very bright rechargeable battery powered lighting system is
> the best system for commuting, precisely because the dynamo systems
> cannot produce sufficient power.

Which experts are these? I'm just preparing to ditch my HID system in
favour of a dynamo for night commuting. Why? Better light, more
reliability.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken. I found a rather battered tube of Araldite
resin in the bottom of the toolbag.

Date: 15 Sep 2007 16:38:20
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <v05tr4-rv7.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk >, Simon Brooke wrote:
> I'm just preparing to ditch my HID system in
>favour of a dynamo for night commuting. Why? Better light, more
>reliability.

What do you mean by better light in this context? My opinion of HIDs
based purely on reviews is that without either a properly shaped
dipped beam or the ability to easily dim them (without significantly
shortening the life of the very expensive bulb), they are probably
unsuitable for road use with oncoming traffic. But I've never tried
one.

Date: 15 Sep 2007 17:22:52
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

in message <slrnfenv3b.t2s.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk >, Alan Braggins
('armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk') wrote:

> In article <v05tr4-rv7.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk>, Simon
> Brooke wrote:
>> I'm just preparing to ditch my HID system in
>>favour of a dynamo for night commuting. Why? Better light, more
>>reliability.
>
> What do you mean by better light in this context? My opinion of HIDs
> based purely on reviews is that without either a properly shaped
> dipped beam or the ability to easily dim them (without significantly
> shortening the life of the very expensive bulb), they are probably
> unsuitable for road use with oncoming traffic. But I've never tried
> one.

Just so. Not much good for illumination in real road situations, dangerous
to oncoming traffic, expensive consumables, short run-time, not reliable.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
;; Voltaire RIP Dr David Kelly 1945-2004

Date: 15 Sep 2007 19:14:06
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <sfdtr4-4f2.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk >, Simon Brooke wrote:
>in message <slrnfenv3b.t2s.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Alan Braggins
>('armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk') wrote:
>> In article <v05tr4-rv7.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk>, Simon
>> Brooke wrote:
>>> I'm just preparing to ditch my HID system in
>>>favour of a dynamo for night commuting. Why? Better light, more
>>>reliability.
>>
>> What do you mean by better light in this context? My opinion of HIDs
>> based purely on reviews is that without either a properly shaped
>> dipped beam or the ability to easily dim them (without significantly
>> shortening the life of the very expensive bulb), they are probably
>> unsuitable for road use with oncoming traffic. But I've never tried
>> one.
>
>Just so. Not much good for illumination in real road situations, dangerous
>to oncoming traffic, expensive consumables, short run-time, not reliable.

You can (at ferocious expense) get HIDs that last for 8 hours on a charge.
(http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1130 (where "40W" means
mean "claimed equivalent to 40W halogen, 10W really").
That's not long enough that all commutes will only need remembering to
charge it once a week, but it's longer than a halogen system of even vaguely
comparable brightness, so I think "short run-time" is a bit unfair. Or are
you referring to the overall bulb life?

Date: 15 Sep 2007 12:40:47
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk > wrote in
news:sfdtr4-4f2.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk:
>
> Just so. Not much good for illumination in real road situations,
> dangerous to oncoming traffic, expensive consumables, short run-time,
> not reliable.
>

Our experiences clearly differ. For run time I get 2.5hrs full and 3.5 hrs
low beam on a small battery which is as good as my old Niterider with its
bottle battery. I believe in lumens/watt they are double anything else out
there.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Date: 15 Sep 2007 10:28:21
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk > wrote in
news:v05tr4-rv7.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk:
>
> Which experts are these? I'm just preparing to ditch my HID system in
> favour of a dynamo for night commuting. Why? Better light, more
> reliability.
>

Now that is bollocks ;-) My HID system is very antisocial because it casts
shadows of all the riders in front that their lights don't alleviate - good
dynamo lights included. However for convenience without someone with a HID
around, dynamo lights are fine. There is the minor point on Scharf's
bollocks though that if you only have one light, anything more powerful
than a dynamo light is illegal in the UK.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Date: 15 Sep 2007 17:27:04
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

in message <Xns99ACA78C4BC9DTR@216.196.109.145 >, Tony Raven
('junk@raven-family.invalid') wrote:

> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in
> news:v05tr4-rv7.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk:
>>
>> Which experts are these? I'm just preparing to ditch my HID system in
>> favour of a dynamo for night commuting. Why? Better light, more
>> reliability.
>>
>
> Now that is bollocks ;-) My HID system is very antisocial because it
> casts shadows of all the riders in front that their lights don't
> alleviate - good
> dynamo lights included.

'more' != 'better'.

Using an HID (while it's running) your night sight is so shafted that you
can't see anything at all outside the illuminated area. This simply isn't
safe on rural roads. Furthermore, unless you have the beam angled so low
that it isn't giving you efficient ahead illumination, it's dangerous to
oncoming drivers, so the distance ahead you can see is actually less.

Fine off road, not a good option on.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; L'etat c'est moi -- Louis XVI
;; I... we... the Government -- Tony Blair

Date: 15 Sep 2007 12:38:28
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk > wrote in news:ondtr4-hf3.ln1
@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk:
>
> 'more' != 'better'.
>
> Using an HID (while it's running) your night sight is so shafted that you
> can't see anything at all outside the illuminated area. This simply isn't
> safe on rural roads. Furthermore, unless you have the beam angled so low
> that it isn't giving you efficient ahead illumination, it's dangerous to
> oncoming drivers, so the distance ahead you can see is actually less.
>
> Fine off road, not a good option on.
>

I think it must depend on what HID system you have. I get a good central
and plenty of peripheral illumination so I can see far more what is going
on than with my other lights and I have not encountered any problems with
car drivers complaining about it being too bright either. It allows me to
ride with much greater confidence than my old Niterider 20+12 system and
lots of people I ride with get very interested in getting one once they've
seen the illumination you get. YMMV

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Date: 15 Sep 2007 18:50:59
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Date: 15 Sep 2007 13:28:40
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Tony Raven wrote:

> I think it must depend on what HID system you have. I get a good central
> and plenty of peripheral illumination so I can see far more what is going
> on than with my other lights and I have not encountered any problems with
> car drivers complaining about it being too bright either. It allows me to
> ride with much greater confidence than my old Niterider 20+12 system and
> lots of people I ride with get very interested in getting one once they've
> seen the illumination you get. YMMV

It's very important to have the type of beam you see from the HID, with
a good center beam, but with sufficient peripheral illumination. This is
where most of the dynamo lights fall short, though the review of the
Soldlights at "http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/page4.htm" seems
to indicate that the Solidlights also has the proper beam pattern for
cycling, probably the first light for a dynamo system available that is
efficient enough to provide both the center beam and sufficient
peripheral beam.

Note that by over-voltaging standard MR16 and MR11 lamps, you can get
close to the efficiency of HID lamps at much lower cost, at the expense
of shorter lamp life.

As to the safety of HID, see:
From "http://www.sheldonbrown.com/marty_light_hist.html"

"With vastly more light available, night bicycling is qualitatively far
safer. The road can be lit both further ahead and, even more important,
far more brightly to the sides of the bicycle. It's my impression that
CatEye's Stadium lamp represents the technology of bicycle light that
will eventually replace all of the existing incandescent bicycle
lighting systems in serious off road and touring bicycling applications.
This because it's not just a little better. The difference is like the
difference between night and day."

I don't know about you, but I put much more stock on what Marty Goodman
says, what Sheldon allows to be posted on his web site, and what Ken
Kifer wrote, than a bunch of people posting bizarre rationalizations and
other incorrect statements on Usenet!

However Goodman's statement on HID was written prior to the recent
advances in LED technology, specifically the Cree LEDs as used in the
Solidlight. The HID lamps are still more efficient than the high power
LEDs, wasting less power as heat than the LEDs. The prices are way down,
now that you can use the TrailTech integrated lamp with the internal
electronics and the MR11 type enclosure. See
"http://trailtech.net/lights.html".

On a side note, I tested out the Fenix Fenix L2DCE last night, and it is
awesome. Combine it with the bicycle mount sold by Elite, and you have a
very powerful light, along with a "being seen" light at the lower power
and in strobe mode. I paid $53 for it from
"http://eliteled.com/products/flashlights/fenix-l2d-ce.html". Not cheap,
but a lot less than the DiNotte, which is less powerful and less
convenient with the separate battery pack. Other Cree equipped lamps are
also available from other sources now, with a wide input voltage range
of up to 3.7 volts.

I have a picture of the Fenix L2DCE up on the bicycle lighting web site
and the direct link is "http://nordicgroup.us/s78/images/flashl4.jpg"
and "http://nordicgroup.us/s78/images/flashl6.jpg" mounted on my Dahon
Speed TR. I needed to make a rubber spacer (out of 7/8" diameter rubber
hose) as the bicycle mount bracket from
"http://www.eliteled.com/products/accessory/flholder.html" is a bit too
big given the small diameter of the Fenix L2DCE. There are other mounts
that I have links to on the web site, see
"http://nordicgroup.us/s78/flashlights.html".

Steve
"http://bicyclelighting.com"
Earth's Source for Bicycle Lighting Information

Date: 15 Sep 2007 08:50:09
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Tony Raven wrote:
> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in
> news:v05tr4-rv7.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk:
>> Which experts are these? I'm just preparing to ditch my HID system in
>> favour of a dynamo for night commuting. Why? Better light, more
>> reliability.
>>
>
> There is the minor point on Scharf's
> bollocks though that if you only have one light, anything more powerful
> than a dynamo light is illegal in the UK.

That's a confusing way to state it. You must have the low power light in
addition to any higher power lights you have. Hopefully this law will be
changed soon.

Date: 15 Sep 2007 16:36:48
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Tony Raven wrote:
> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in
> news:v05tr4-rv7.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk:
>> Which experts are these? I'm just preparing to ditch my HID system in
>> favour of a dynamo for night commuting. Why? Better light, more
>> reliability.
>>
>
> Now that is bollocks ;-) My HID system is very antisocial because it casts
> shadows of all the riders in front that their lights don't alleviate - good
> dynamo lights included.

Simon didn't define "better", you have made an assumption... Tell
me, does your HID light cast much of a shadow when the battery's
charging up indoors?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 15 Sep 2007 11:39:47
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote in
news:5l2cfrF60ipuU2@mid.individual.net:

> Tony Raven wrote:
>> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in
>> news:v05tr4-rv7.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk:
>>> Which experts are these? I'm just preparing to ditch my HID system
>>> in favour of a dynamo for night commuting. Why? Better light, more
>>> reliability.
>>>
>>
>> Now that is bollocks ;-) My HID system is very antisocial because it
>> casts shadows of all the riders in front that their lights don't
>> alleviate - good dynamo lights included.
>
> Simon didn't define "better", you have made an assumption... Tell
> me, does your HID light cast much of a shadow when the battery's
> charging up indoors?
>

Errhumm....he said "better light" which one presumes, in the context to
which he was replying, means the light it gives out is better. YMMV

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Date: 15 Sep 2007 19:12:38
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Tony Raven wrote:

> Errhumm....he said "better light" which one presumes, in the context to
> which he was replying, means the light it gives out is better. YMMV

And again I ask, in the above context, how good is the light from
your HID set on the bike while the battery is charging indoors?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 15 Sep 2007 13:24:41
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote in news:5l2lk1F67h1vU1
@mid.individual.net:

> Tony Raven wrote:
>
>> Errhumm....he said "better light" which one presumes, in the context to
>> which he was replying, means the light it gives out is better. YMMV
>
> And again I ask, in the above context, how good is the light from
> your HID set on the bike while the battery is charging indoors?
>

Pretty good - I have two batteries but even if not it only takes 3 hrs to
recharge one.

If I wanted a dimmer light then my LED lamp lasts a long time with a dynamo
light equivalent beam but when I am out cycling, particularly on country
roads in the wet that is not what I want, especially with on coming cars.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Date: 14 Sep 2007 17:08:10
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
>>
>> But you're still deperately ignoring anyone who feels that way. Why?
>
> I don't ignore them. But I would like them to stop making up all these
> stories and excuses.

Well, I don't recall making any up earlier, but if you want I have a
good one about some spider monkeys my daughters liked. I can't
guarantee the quality, they liked it, but at three and six they are not
exactly theatre critics.

I don't recall anyone making excuses either.

> If avoiding charging batteries, either out of necessity (multi-day all
> night rides) or out of a desire to avoid connecting a charger, then
> that's certainly a valid preference, however silly the latter may
> appear to some.

Well, I'm glad you merely think we're flighty nincompoops instead of
outright imbeciles. Your high estimation of our character shows your
genteel charm and manners.

> But stop it there. The endless rationalizations about how sufficient
> the illumination is are not something anyone that looks at the issue
> rationally actually believes.

Well, Man is the rationalizing animal. Regardless of that, I think it's
rather that you discount every experience except your own. I can't help
it you'd rather rationalize why everyone else is wrong, rather than
rationally listen to anyone else's thoughts.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have
a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."
-Dan Quayle

Date: 13 Sep 2007 20:38:38
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> I don't ignore them.

No, you just assume they're clueless and resorting to mad
justifications, and say as much.

> But I would like them to stop making up all these
> stories and excuses. If avoiding charging batteries, either out of
> necessity (multi-day all night rides) or out of a desire to avoid
> connecting a charger, then that's certainly a valid preference, however
> silly the latter may appear to some.

You're trying to paint it as pathetic. Do you think if a slightly
lower perfomance (but still entirely adeaute for the jobs to hand)
laptop or cellphone was available that never needed charging, only
silly people would form the market for it? Well, you probably do,
because you have tunnel vision, but I'm pretty sure either would
find a lot of enthusiastic use.

> But stop it there. The endless rationalizations about how sufficient the
> illumination is are not something anyone that looks at the issue
> rationally actually believes.

Riding around for years, seeing everything one needs and not having
problems is "rationalisation"? Deary me...

> The actual power source is immaterial

Where the power source running out before the job is complete, or
only being available between charges, the actual power source is
very much material.

> what matters is whether or not
> the power source is capable of powering adequate lamps.

And in the case of hub dynamos they are. That's how so many people
ride bikes with them on safely and happily. You never were one to
get inconvenient facts like people doing things get in your way of
thinking they can't, and that stupidity remains.

> The experts
> agree that a very bright rechargeable battery powered lighting system is
> the best system for commuting, precisely because the dynamo systems
> cannot produce sufficient power.

And which "experts" are they? Oh, the people you happen to agree
with, including yourself. Self reference doesn't make something a
fact.

> See the "Myths and Facts" section of the website for more gems.

How about that you're an expert in bicycle lighting? It's like a
joke, but not as funny...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 17:57:51
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote in message
news:46e96890$0$27157$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

>> Again I remind you I have changed from the sort of system you are
>> espousing *precisely because I didn't like it as much as a dynamo*, even
>> though I thought it was okay before I'd tried the modern dynamo setup.
>>
>> But you're still deperately ignoring anyone who feels that way. Why?
>
> I don't ignore them. But I would like them to stop making up all these
> stories and excuses. If avoiding charging batteries, either out of
> necessity (multi-day all night rides) or out of a desire to avoid
> connecting a charger, then that's certainly a valid preference, however
> silly the latter may appear to some.

Good. Well done.

> But stop it there. The endless rationalizations about how sufficient the
> illumination is are not something anyone that looks at the issue
> rationally actually believes.

Except the many of us who _have_ looked at the situation rationally, and
have tried it, know the illumination is sufficient. Even the German
standards people agree it's sufficient - and IIRC you said they were careful
and thorough.

> The actual power source is immaterial, what matters is whether or not the
> power source is capable of powering adequate lamps. The experts agree that
> a very bright rechargeable battery powered lighting system is the best
> system for commuting, precisely because the dynamo systems cannot produce
> sufficient power.

Bollocks. But you know that already. Your definition of expert is "somebody
who agrees with SMS". I think I've got a reasonable enough claim to be a
bike lighting expert - certainly as much as some of the people you're fond
of citing. I believe others on this group also have the experience
sufficient to have that claim. Yet you persist in denying this, purely
because we don't agree with you. You're choosing your evidence based on the
answers you want, destroying any claim to objectivity in the process.

You'd do far better to acknowledge that the lights we use are in fact
adequate, rather than continue with your ridiculous crusade.

But, this has all been said many times before, and you still don't listen.

clive

Date: 14 Sep 2007 09:45:13
From: David Damerell
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Quoting Clive George <clive@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk >:
>Bollocks. But you know that already. Your definition of expert is "somebody
>who agrees with SMS".

Or "who can be quoted out of context to..."

Ken Kifer is one of SMS's "experts" - now what kind of lights did Ken
Kifer use all his life?
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk > Kill the tomato!
Today is Teleute, September.

Date: 14 Sep 2007 07:19:48
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Clive George <clive@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk>:
>> Bollocks. But you know that already. Your definition of expert is "somebody
>> who agrees with SMS".
>
> Or "who can be quoted out of context to..."
>
> Ken Kifer is one of SMS's "experts" - now what kind of lights did Ken
> Kifer use all his life?

Ken Kifer is someone I admire because he was able to go beyond what we
see in this newsgroup. He didn't have the attitude of 'everyone should
do what I do because if they don't that somehow reflects negatively on
my choices,' and he didn't then come up with all sorts of bizarre
rationalizations to defend his actions." Ken understood what lights were
best for commuting, and what was best for touring. I corresponded with
him occasionally, though about other subjects, not lights.

He wrote: "For commuters, the best front light is the very bright
rechargeable lamp."

This is not out of context. You can read the entire statement at
"http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/traffic/traffic.htm" and scroll down
to _Be Visible, Night and Day_.

Each type of light and power source has its pros and cons. Being
self-powered and not having to charge batteries is a good thing. It
looks like the Solidlights make it possible to have a good beam for
cycling while not relying on batteries. Also read the review at
"http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/page4.htm" near the bottom.
Ironically, Peter White doesn't sell the SolidLight, at least not yet.

Date: 14 Sep 2007 10:49:12
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46ea9835$0$27253$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:

> Ken Kifer is someone I admire because he was able to go beyond what
> we see in this newsgroup. He didn't have the attitude of 'everyone
> should do what I do because if they don't that somehow reflects
> negatively on my choices,'

Then perhaps you should take him for a role model.

Date: 14 Sep 2007 11:54:24
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article <46ea9835$0$27253$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ken Kifer is someone I admire because he was able to go beyond what
>> we see in this newsgroup. He didn't have the attitude of 'everyone
>> should do what I do because if they don't that somehow reflects
>> negatively on my choices,'
>
> Then perhaps you should take him for a role model.

As far as lighting goes, I do. I have some dynamo lights which are fine
for touring in case I get caught out at night unexpectedly, and for
commuting I use what he recommends for the reasons he states.

I just wish you and a few others would take to heart his advice on the
best lights for commuting. I wish none you any harm, and the fact that
you've been lucky so far with low power lights does not diminish the
advice of Kifer and so many, many, other experts and organizations.

Just look at some the really idiotic statements that are made in this
lighting thread, and previous ones. Suddenly I'm now selling MR16 based
systems? Suddenly you only need good illumination when you're going down
a hill? And people think that this kind of crap convinces others!

Date: 14 Sep 2007 17:11:21
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
>
> Just look at some the really idiotic statements that are made in this
> lighting thread, and previous ones. Suddenly I'm now selling MR16 based
> systems?

Well, to be fair, they (incorrectly) said you *used* to sell them.

> Suddenly you only need good illumination when you're going down a hill?

Funny, noone said that in this thread. You should see a debate coach or
something, you seem to be incapable of staying on target.

> And people think that this kind of crap convinces others!

Well, some people [1] bring a small candle of illumination to the
argument. I welcome anyone who can civilly, reasonably hold a
discussion.

[1] I like to think this of myself.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"When you know not whereof you speak, your mouth is best used
for chewing."
-Slovotsky's Law # ?

Date: 14 Sep 2007 21:18:39
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46ead895$0$27239$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >, SMS wrote:
>Tim McNamara wrote:
>> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ken Kifer is someone I admire because he was able to go beyond what
>>> we see in this newsgroup. He didn't have the attitude of 'everyone
>>> should do what I do because if they don't that somehow reflects
>>> negatively on my choices,'
>>
>> Then perhaps you should take him for a role model.
>
>As far as lighting goes, I do.

Woosh!

Date: 14 Sep 2007 15:22:51
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46ead895$0$27239$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:

> Tim McNamara wrote:
> > In article <46ea9835$0$27253$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
> > SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Ken Kifer is someone I admire because he was able to go beyond
> >> what we see in this newsgroup. He didn't have the attitude of
> >> 'everyone should do what I do because if they don't that somehow
> >> reflects negatively on my choices,'
> >
> > Then perhaps you should take him for a role model.
>
> As far as lighting goes, I do.

Perhaps in the choice of your lighting, but not in your attitude.

> I have some dynamo lights which are fine for touring in case I get
> caught out at night unexpectedly, and for commuting I use what he
> recommends for the reasons he states.
>
> I just wish you and a few others would take to heart his advice on
> the best lights for commuting. I wish none you any harm, and the fact
> that you've been lucky so far with low power lights does not diminish
> the advice of Kifer and so many, many, other experts and
> organizations.

Ken's choice of lights didn't save his life, tragically. As far as
being "lucky with low power lights," I have never ever had a close call
with a car while riding thousands of miles at night with my "low power
lights." It's not luck- it's that people can see me just fine with what
I am using and I can see just fine with what I am using.

> Just look at some the really idiotic statements that are made in this
> lighting thread, and previous ones. Suddenly I'm now selling MR16
> based systems? Suddenly you only need good illumination when you're
> going down a hill? And people think that this kind of crap convinces
> others!

Nope, we just don't engage in the circular logic you use.

Date: 14 Sep 2007 15:23:35
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> Each type of light and power source has its pros and cons.

Indeed. But you persist in listing a "con" of dynamo setups is that
they're "inadequate" for things which Real People find, and have proven
them to be, completely adequate for.

> It
> looks like the Solidlights make it possible to have a good beam for
> cycling while not relying on batteries.

As do various other, considerably cheaper options on the market. How do
we know? People using them and finding them (and proving them in use)
to be perfectly adequate.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 16:47:48
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Ace wrote:

> AAMOI how much night riding do you do? My old Lumicycle set seems to
> only need charging once in a blue moon, but then I'm only running it
> at 10W for fifteen minutes at a time a couple of time a week. As such,
> the extra effort of plugging it into the charger (doesn't need
> removing from bike) is no big deal at all.

I live at 56 North. Which means I hardly use lights at all in summer,
but in winter it's more often than not.

I'm not saying charging lights is a "big deal", just it's a deal I'd
rather not deal with. Just as washing up isn't a big deal, but I'm
happier for a dish-washer to do it for me.

> But for that matter, even when I was using it a lot more (cycling 20
> miles to work every day, summer & winter) I'd just make sure the
> charger was in a convenient place in the garage and plug it in
> overnight. Which is why I've never even considered, and still
> wouldn't, a dynamo-based system.

I just like knowing I have my lights at the ready any time I get on my
bike. I don't have to go out of my way to take them with me, carry them
around when I'm away from the bike, and I don't ever have to worry about
them running out of charge or forgetting to charge them. If you're
happy with your rechargeables then it makes a lot of sense to stick with
them, but I just prefer not to bother with the extra work involved, even
as minor as I'm happy to acknowledge it is.

Different folk, different mileages. But Scharf can't see that AFAICT,
he just appears to assume dynamo users are self-deluding luddites who
refuse to use an objectively better system, where in actuality they're
typically people who find dynamos work better for them than rechargeable
systems, for whatever genuine practical reasons.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 18 Sep 2007 14:28:27
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch wrote:

> I just like knowing I have my lights at the ready any time I get on my
> bike.

Inna famous-last-words stylee, I got on the Brom for a local trip last
night, and the front light didn't work... Changed the bulb, no joy, no
immediately obvious wiring gotchas, dis/re assembled a few times to
clean contacts, still no joy. So brought it in to work today and
attacked it with the multimeter. Everything should work, so I put it
back together and... it worked. <bof >

So when dynamo setups do let you down they tend to do it in some degree
of style. OTOH, a pal had a fuse go Foom on her battery charger unit
earlier in the year, and left her similarly light free, so nothing's
perfect!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 19 Sep 2007 11:37:08
From: Andreas Oehler
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:28:27 +0100, Peter Clinch:

>Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>> I just like knowing I have my lights at the ready any time I get on my
>> bike.
>
>Inna famous-last-words stylee, I got on the Brom for a local trip last
>night, and the front light didn't work... Changed the bulb, no joy, no
>immediately obvious wiring gotchas, dis/re assembled a few times to
>clean contacts, still no joy. So brought it in to work today and
>attacked it with the multimeter. Everything should work, so I put it
>back together and... it worked. <bof>

Which type of headlight? If it's a classic round Lumotec the brass spring
which makes contact to the center of the bulb might have beeb bent back.
Use a small screwdriver to bend it a little to the front again.

Rear light with double-wire connection? Check if it is connectec right -
expecially ground contact at the head lamp connected with ground contact
at the rear lamp.

>So when dynamo setups do let you down they tend to do it in some degree
>of style. OTOH, a pal had a fuse go Foom on her battery charger unit
>earlier in the year, and left her similarly light free, so nothing's
>perfect!

Lots of battery lights and gadgets are known for poor contacts. Some
modern LED-flashlights or even battery powered LED-lights switch themself
permanently off, if the battery looses contact while riding on rough
terrain. You have to manually operate the switch to switch it on again.
Problem is: Battery cells are heavy, contact springs are relative week...
Even last weekend we had this kind of problem with our Garmin Etrex Vista
GPS receiver - worth a few hundret Euro.

Andreas

Date: 19 Sep 2007 10:48:54
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Andreas Oehler wrote:

> Which type of headlight? If it's a classic round Lumotec the brass spring
> which makes contact to the center of the bulb might have beeb bent back.
> Use a small screwdriver to bend it a little to the front again.

The Basta (looks a bit like a round Lumotec) that Brompton now supply as
their standard front dynamo lamp. Was fine yesterday, I imagine just a
contact problem.

> Lots of battery lights and gadgets are known for poor contacts.

I know that, and you know that, but Scharf is in denial about that...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 19 Sep 2007 10:47:26
From: Dave Larrington
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In news:46feeb9c.72101286@n.nabendynamo.de,
Andreas Oehler <andreas.oehler@gmx.de > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
us:

> Lots of battery lights and gadgets are known for poor contacts. Some
> modern LED-flashlights or even battery powered LED-lights switch
> themself permanently off, if the battery looses contact while riding
> on rough terrain. You have to manually operate the switch to switch
> it on again. Problem is: Battery cells are heavy, contact springs are
> relative week...

Indeed. I have a Several of Cateye LED lights which all require a good
thumping to get them to wake up afte rreplacing the flatteries.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk >
You can't have ham!

Date: 19 Sep 2007 17:16:24
From: Don Whybrow
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Dave Larrington wrote:
> In news:46feeb9c.72101286@n.nabendynamo.de,
> Andreas Oehler <andreas.oehler@gmx.de> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
> us:
>
>> Lots of battery lights and gadgets are known for poor contacts. Some
>> modern LED-flashlights or even battery powered LED-lights switch
>> themself permanently off, if the battery looses contact while riding
>> on rough terrain. You have to manually operate the switch to switch
>> it on again. Problem is: Battery cells are heavy, contact springs are
>> relative week...
>
> Indeed. I have a Several of Cateye LED lights which all require a good
> thumping to get them to wake up afte rreplacing the flatteries.

Back when I had a lot less clue than now, I went and got a set of
battery lights from Halfords, their own brand ones. They haven't worked
since the first time I took them out when it was raining. It tends to do
that a bit around here.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.

Date: 19 Sep 2007 12:39:48
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Don Whybrow wrote:

> Back when I had a lot less clue than now, I went and got a set of
> battery lights from Halfords, their own brand ones. They haven't worked
> since the first time I took them out when it was raining. It tends to do
> that a bit around here.

Yes, there are definitely a lot of sub-par lights in terms of quality of
construction, though this spans both battery and dynamo lights. It's
rather ironic that the only place to buy dynamo lights in most parts of
the U.S. is at drug stores and hardware stores, you'll almost never see
them in a bicycle shop. Of course these $10-20 toys are not going to
work very well, i.e. "http://tinyurl.com/yvafzj".

Don't buy bicycle lights at a store where they sell aspirin or paint.
Except of course in Japan, where the department stores sell an amazing
variety of bicycle accessories.

Date: 18 Sep 2007 18:03:35
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <5la24aF75mgcU1@mid.individual.net >, p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk
says...
>
> Inna famous-last-words stylee, I got on the Brom for a local trip last
> night, and the front light didn't work... Changed the bulb, no joy, no
> immediately obvious wiring gotchas, dis/re assembled a few times to
> clean contacts, still no joy. So brought it in to work today and
> attacked it with the multimeter. Everything should work, so I put it
> back together and... it worked. <bof>
>

That's electrickery for you.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Date: 18 Sep 2007 10:34:25
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Tony Raven wrote:
> In article <5la24aF75mgcU1@mid.individual.net>, p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk
> says...
>> Inna famous-last-words stylee, I got on the Brom for a local trip last
>> night, and the front light didn't work... Changed the bulb, no joy, no
>> immediately obvious wiring gotchas, dis/re assembled a few times to
>> clean contacts, still no joy. So brought it in to work today and
>> attacked it with the multimeter. Everything should work, so I put it
>> back together and... it worked. <bof>
>>
>
> That's electrickery for you.

Well the amazing thing is that he didn't have a multimeter with him to
troubleshoot it on the spot. How much are multimeters in the U.K.? In
the U.S. you can get a small digital multimeter for under $3 on sale
(and they are constantly on sale). If you're going to use dynamo lights
then you really want to carry a multimeter with you at all times to
facilitate troubleshooting. You can check the continuity of the bulb
filament, you can check the wiring, even check the dynamo output voltage.

I bought ten of the $3 multimeters to teach Ohm's law on "enrichment
day" at my son's school. Of course the 4th graders were soon measuring
the resistance of themselves, but at least some of them got the
voltage/current/resistance relationship. Maybe I should have started
with something simpler, like how to troubleshoot bicycle lights.

Date: 18 Sep 2007 07:48:16
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch wrote:

> So when dynamo setups do let you down they tend to do it in some degree
> of style. OTOH, a pal had a fuse go Foom on her battery charger unit
> earlier in the year, and left her similarly light free, so nothing's
> perfect!

Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
batteries. Even with a dynamo light, for a back-up you should always
carry a small LED flashlight (torch) and a way to mount it to the
handlebars (see "http://nordicgroup.us/s78/flashlights.html").

The Fenix L2DCE is an amazing flashlight. An excellent beam for
bicycling, better than most dynamo lights (other than the SolidLights),
as well as being small and light. Not cheap at $53.50.

Steve
"http://bicyclelighting.com"
Earth's Source for Bicycle Lighting Information

Date: 18 Sep 2007 15:59:01
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:
>
> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
> batteries.

Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.

> Even with a dynamo light, for a back-up you should always
> carry a small LED flashlight (torch) and a way to mount it to the
> handlebars

I have a wee light anyway on the bars that I can thumb on as an
auxiliary standlight. It's also a good idea to have an emergency spare
along, as one genuine disadvantage of a dynamo setup is it's useless for
helping you fix punctures in the dark. A head-lamp is much the best for
fixing punctures.

> The Fenix L2DCE is an amazing flashlight. An excellent beam for
> bicycling, better than most dynamo lights (other than the SolidLights),
> as well as being small and light. Not cheap at $53.50.

That'll be $53.50 it's not worth me spending then. I don't really care
if the beam is better than my lamps, because my lamps are perfectly
adequate for what I want, and the batteries never run down!.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 19 Sep 2007 16:20:16
From: Roger Merriman
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote:

> SMS wrote:
> >
> > Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
> > batteries.
>
> Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
> I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
> used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
> weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.
>
yup and as they don't come with battery meters it can be easy to run
them flat.

i do use them but on the commutor bike i have a number, low flying ufo
to borrow wafflecats words. it would be better to have a dynmo system
and probably that will get fitted at some point. it would be much more
useful.

snips
>
> Pete.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Date: 18 Sep 2007 09:54:21
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
>> batteries.
>
> Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.

Not selective at all. You were the one that brought up the problem with
your dynamo lights. How many non-techies have multimeters at work to
diagnose the problem and fix it. It sounds like you never actually found
the cause of the problem, you just did the usual stuff of checking and
cleaning contacts and connections and bulbs. That's the problem with a
lot of dynamo setups, there are just too many points of failure. That's
one of the main reasons they're not used as much as in the past.

Date: 19 Sep 2007 08:14:57
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> Not selective at all. You were the one that brought up the problem with
> your dynamo lights.

Oklay, so I'll bring up problems I've had with battery lights in the past...

> How many non-techies have multimeters at work to
> diagnose the problem and fix it.

Not very relevant, since I didn't use any info from the MM /to/ fix it.

> It sounds like you never actually found
> the cause of the problem, you just did the usual stuff of checking and
> cleaning contacts and connections and bulbs. That's the problem with a
> lot of dynamo setups, there are just too many points of failure. That's
> one of the main reasons they're not used as much as in the past.

Well, let's see, my first rechargeable battery setup first failed with a
blown bulb, as has happened with dynamos too. Same problem, same cure.
The next failure was another thing I've had go wrong with a dynamo
setup too, which was a wiring break. Actually rather harder to fix
neatly on the battery system with more captive leads. Switches can get
dirty and lose contact on either and they're just as prone to problems
on either, so again you're being very selective with your highlighting
of problems.
You can get rid of the wiring problems with internal cells, but you
never see fit to mention that problem when endorsing separate
rechargeables. And moving to LED from bulbs is just as relevant for
generator setups as battery setups.

So a typical Scharf performance of selective highlighting of problems on
the things you're not so keen on, implying they won't happen to the
things you are so keen on.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 18 Sep 2007 08:13:50
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
>> batteries.
>
> Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
> I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
> used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
> weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.

Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
cells if their light is AA powered. Or if in the city, to stop at a 7-11
or whatever all-night store is in your country to buy a couple of cells.

I have three Bromptons, and none have dynamo lights. The cost and
reliability makes it an unattractive option. I'd literally spend more on
a hub dynamo wheel and lamp than the cost of the Brompton itself, since
I got the Bromptons in Taiwan when Brompton was licensing the design
($225-$240 each, depending on the exchange rate at the time).

Date: 18 Sep 2007 16:09:29
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46efeadf$0$27225$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:

> I have three Bromptons, and none have dynamo lights. The cost and
> reliability makes it an unattractive option. I'd literally spend more
> on a hub dynamo wheel and lamp than the cost of the Brompton itself,
> since I got the Bromptons in Taiwan when Brompton was licensing the
> design ($225-$240 each, depending on the exchange rate at the time).

A poor argument, Steven, given the nonstandard nature of much of the
Brompton's design. While that's necessary to make it do what it does,
it does create a number of problems with retrofitting things like
generator hubs. However, bottle generators work just fine on Bromptons
and are quite popular in the UK.

Date: 18 Sep 2007 09:41:55
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
>> SMS wrote:
>>> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
>>> batteries.
>>
>> Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
>> I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
>> used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
>> weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.
>
> Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
> cells if their light is AA powered. Or if in the city, to stop at a 7-11
> or whatever all-night store is in your country to buy a couple of cells.

Ha! I know plenty of people just like that. I'd say it happens with
regular occurence with my current riding group.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
Mountain Dew and doughnuts...
because breakfast is the most important meal of the day.

Date: 18 Sep 2007 16:23:43
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
> cells if their light is AA powered.

Quite a lot of people, is the real world answer. It's no more stupid to
forget spare cells than it is to forget lights altogether, but there are
plenty of people who've managed that at one time or another. I'm sure
/you're/ perfect, but you really should give other people some credit
for not being quite that organised.

> I have three Bromptons, and none have dynamo lights.

The only reason to have 3 Brommies is each one is set up for different
jobs (unless you really /are/ dumb), in which case you wouldn't
necessarily want all 3 with lights.

> The cost and
> reliability makes it an unattractive option.

But nobody's trying to force you to take that option, or say the lamps
will be "inadequate" if you do, or if you're in Mode X then it is
clearly the best thing for anyone to do. You'll probably round this off
as you usually do by claiming you're doing no such thing either, and
then quote some "facts" by "experts" that imply exactly what you say you
don't say...

> I'd literally spend more on
> a hub dynamo wheel and lamp than the cost of the Brompton itself, since
> I got the Bromptons in Taiwan when Brompton was licensing the design
> ($225-$240 each, depending on the exchange rate at the time).

If you choose the most expensive possible options, perhaps, but as
millions of people prove daily you don't need the most expensive option
for a perfectly adequate lighting setup. Even in the remarkably
expensive UK and at the current 2:1 exchange rate it's easy to get a
good dynohub (i.e., the Shimano 371) and acceptable accompaniment for
less than that, so either you're being disingenuous or you're talking
rubbish. Again.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 18 Sep 2007 18:37:20
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <5la8rvF783ejU1@mid.individual.net >, Peter Clinch wrote:
>SMS wrote:
>
>> I'd literally spend more on
>> a hub dynamo wheel and lamp than the cost of the Brompton itself, since
>> I got the Bromptons in Taiwan when Brompton was licensing the design
>> ($225-$240 each, depending on the exchange rate at the time).
>
>If you choose the most expensive possible options, perhaps, but as
>millions of people prove daily you don't need the most expensive option
>for a perfectly adequate lighting setup. Even in the remarkably
>expensive UK and at the current 2:1 exchange rate it's easy to get a
>good dynohub (i.e., the Shimano 371)

But how many of those millions of people are fitting cheaper Shimano
dynohubs into Bromptons, rather than standard width forks?

http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/public/index.php/product/DA6SP019.html
might do it (I think it's this: http://www.dahon.co.uk/l-dynamo.htm)
but the only dynohub option listed in the Brompton brochure is the SON.
(The "2.4V/3W" looks unlikely though. Typo for 2.4W and 3W options which
the page doesn't let you choose between, maybe?)

So in the specific case of the Brompton, there's some excuse for choosing
the most expensive option (at least if you have to deal with the sort of
slush where a bottle dynamo often slips).

Date: 18 Sep 2007 21:54:52
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Alan Braggins wrote:

> But how many of those millions of people are fitting cheaper Shimano
> dynohubs into Bromptons, rather than standard width forks?

Fair point: not many. Most just use bottles, and find them
perfectly acceptable.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 19 Sep 2007 12:34:09
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <5las81F77md7U2@mid.individual.net >, Peter Clinch wrote:
>Alan Braggins wrote:
>
>> But how many of those millions of people are fitting cheaper Shimano
>> dynohubs into Bromptons, rather than standard width forks?
>
>Fair point: not many. Most just use bottles, and find them
>perfectly acceptable.

Which is why I said "at least if you have to deal with the sort of
slush where a bottle dynamo often slips". After all, you do have hub
dynamos on several of your bikes for a good reason even if you do find
the bottle acceptable on the 8-freight.

Date: 19 Sep 2007 12:56:03
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Alan Braggins wrote:

> Which is why I said "at least if you have to deal with the sort of
> slush where a bottle dynamo often slips". After all, you do have hub
> dynamos on several of your bikes for a good reason even if you do find
> the bottle acceptable on the 8-freight.

The primary reasons are no noise, no problems with bumping the mount and
other such convenience and aesthetic reasons.

A bottle can always be supplied with a serious wire-brush roller
designed specifically for slush. I actually posses such a thing but
have always found the variable spring tension adjustment on the basic
B&M is quite sufficient to cope with slush so haven't had to try it.

For regular riding in slush, I'd really say you can do better than a
Brompton, never mind better than a bottle dynamo! (btw, the SON on my
Brom is not an XS, 'cause they didn't exist when I bought it. Ben
"Kinetics" Cooper spread the fork a little and it doesn't seem to have
caused any problems).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 18 Sep 2007 08:37:03
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
>> Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
>> cells if their light is AA powered.
>
> Quite a lot of people, is the real world answer. It's no more stupid to
> forget spare cells than it is to forget lights altogether, but there are
> plenty of people who've managed that at one time or another. I'm sure
> /you're/ perfect, but you really should give other people some credit
> for not being quite that organised.
>
>> I have three Bromptons, and none have dynamo lights.
>
> The only reason to have 3 Brommies is each one is set up for different
> jobs (unless you really /are/ dumb), in which case you wouldn't
> necessarily want all 3 with lights.

Hmm, could it be that they are used for more than one person? Nah,
that's too obvious. I also find that they're a great bicycle to lend to
visitors (responsible visitors!) that want to do a ride and that have to
transport the bicycles in their vehicle.

> If you choose the most expensive possible options, perhaps, but as
> millions of people prove daily you don't need the most expensive option
> for a perfectly adequate lighting setup.

Yes, the problem is that "perfectly adequate" is a pretty low benchmark.

Date: 18 Sep 2007 21:54:03
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> Hmm, could it be that they are used for more than one person? Nah,
> that's too obvious.

It certainly isn't obvious if the "correct"solution is one set of
lights to transfer between them, because that way only one can over
go out at night. As is, errrrr, pretty obvious. And if it's for
three people, riding at night at the same time, they can all
contribute to the cost of the lighting, be it dynamo or battery.

> Yes, the problem is that "perfectly adequate" is a pretty low benchmark.

It is, by definition, a perfectly adequate one, however, so is thus
not actually a problem unless you choose to see it as one apropos
of nothing much except having a bee in your bonnet.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 10:11:36
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch wrote:

> Different folk, different mileages. But Scharf can't see that AFAICT,
> he just appears to assume dynamo users are self-deluding luddites who
> refuse to use an objectively better system, where in actuality they're
> typically people who find dynamos work better for them than rechargeable
> systems, for whatever genuine practical reasons.

In fact, I go into detail on the web site on the trade-offs of the
different kinds of systems. Far be it from me to tell others what to do.
But what would be nice is if people based there decisions on actual
facts. That may be too much to hope for on an issue where emotions are
more important than logic, but that's the goal, and as people become
educated about the subject they will be able to make a fact-based decision.

"I believe that it's important to understand the facts regarding dynamo
systems and battery based systems, so you can choose the most
appropriate lighting system for your needs."

See:
"http://nordicgroup.us/s78/dynamo.html"
"http://nordicgroup.us/s78/experts.html"
"http://nordicgroup.us/s78/myths.html"

Date: 13 Sep 2007 20:30:55
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> In fact, I go into detail on the web site on the trade-offs of the
> different kinds of systems.

Yet repeatedly say that generator systems are inadequate.

> Far be it from me to tell others what to do.

You may not tell them what to do, but you do provide biased
information suggesting what you think they /should/ do that is
clearly at odds with the real-world experinece of many cyclists.

> But what would be nice is if people based there decisions on actual
> facts.

So direct empirical experinece isn't "facts"?

> "I believe that it's important to understand the facts regarding dynamo
> systems and battery based systems, so you can choose the most
> appropriate lighting system for your needs."

And then you supply some "facts" that are wrong, and wrong in the
direct empirical experinece of many users. So you are at odds with
what you state you believe.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 18:34:48
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote in message
news:46e96ef9$0$27226$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

> In fact, I go into detail on the web site on the trade-offs of the
> different kinds of systems. Far be it from me to tell others what to do.
> But what would be nice is if people based there decisions on actual facts.

You mean, in the way you distinctly don't?

Fact : Dynamo lights are good enough for the vast majority of road use.

That's it.

The "vast majority" bit allows for people who don't feel there's enough
light from a dynamo system (ie you) to use stuff with more power if you
want.

> That may be too much to hope for on an issue where emotions are more
> important than logic, but that's the goal, and as people become educated
> about the subject they will be able to make a fact-based decision.

Except certain people refuse to accept the facts - oh yes, that's you.

> "I believe that it's important to understand the facts regarding dynamo
> systems and battery based systems, so you can choose the most appropriate
> lighting system for your needs."

Fair enough.

> See:
> "http://nordicgroup.us/s78/dynamo.html"
> "http://nordicgroup.us/s78/experts.html"
> "http://nordicgroup.us/s78/myths.html"

for examples on how people can be wrong. Blimey, just read the myths page.
That puts you fairly in the "kook" category.

clive

Date: 13 Sep 2007 17:53:35
From: Ace
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:47:48 +0100, Peter Clinch
<p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote:

>Different folk, different mileages. But Scharf can't see that AFAICT,
>he just appears to assume dynamo users are self-deluding luddites who
>refuse to use an objectively better system, where in actuality they're
>typically people who find dynamos work better for them than rechargeable
>systems, for whatever genuine practical reasons.

TBH I find this whole argumentative appraoch difficlut to understand,
and all to prevelant on urc. AFAICT no-one is actually claiming that
their own approach is better for everyone all the time, but the
ill-feeling generated seems to assume that they are.

In my world, I'm happy to discuss alternatives even if I'm commmited
to a particular solution; I'll be happy to explain why I made my
choice and why/if I still think its best for me, but don't expect
other folk to suddenly change their views. Quite why people here need
to feel that there's always a right and a wrong solution I have no
idea.

--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom

Date: 14 Sep 2007 08:32:09
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Ace wrote:

> TBH I find this whole argumentative appraoch difficlut to understand,
> and all to prevelant on urc.

Scharf doesn't live here, he just gets cross-posted in occasionally.
Have a look at the rec.bikes groups he's posted in from and look at his
posting record of complaining endlessly about the bad abd cluelss
behaviour of others while doing the same things he decries himself, only
more so.

> AFAICT no-one is actually claiming that
> their own approach is better for everyone all the time

No, but Scharf does state that "experts agree" (where "expert" is Sharf
and those who agree with Scharf) that some things are clearly Not The
Thing in certain cases where the Real World demonstrates he's wrong.
Apparently, a significant portion of the transportational cycling
population of Germany use "inadequate" lighting, for example.

> but the
> ill-feeling generated seems to assume that they are.

Self proclaimed experts talking obvious junk who have an overwhelming
tendency to complain about the junk posted by self proclaimed experts
have a way of rubbing people up the wrong way...

> Quite why people here need
> to feel that there's always a right and a wrong solution I have no
> idea.

Because they're experts! We know that Scharf is an expert because he
tells us he is, and tells us that expert opinion is what counts.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 17:04:25
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

"Ace" <seesig@virgin.net > wrote in message
news:v1nie3129vamb33u1l2a51sv98ps0ttv3t@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:47:48 +0100, Peter Clinch
> <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>>Different folk, different mileages. But Scharf can't see that AFAICT,
>>he just appears to assume dynamo users are self-deluding luddites who
>>refuse to use an objectively better system, where in actuality they're
>>typically people who find dynamos work better for them than rechargeable
>>systems, for whatever genuine practical reasons.
>
> TBH I find this whole argumentative appraoch difficlut to understand,
> and all to prevelant on urc.

Check the NGs this thread is on.

> AFAICT no-one is actually claiming that
> their own approach is better for everyone all the time, but the
> ill-feeling generated seems to assume that they are.

Read what SMS has written - he's got a history of saying dynamo lights are
inadequate and hence unsafe, and he has been clear that he means that in a
general sense, not just for him personally.

> In my world, I'm happy to discuss alternatives even if I'm commmited
> to a particular solution; I'll be happy to explain why I made my
> choice and why/if I still think its best for me, but don't expect
> other folk to suddenly change their views. Quite why people here need
> to feel that there's always a right and a wrong solution I have no
> idea.

There's one person in this thread who feels there's a wrong solution, and
that's SMS. The rest is just people pointing out his mistakes.

cheers,
clive

Date: 13 Sep 2007 06:38:39
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 13, 5:24 am, Andy M-S <marchantshap...@gmail.com > wrote:

... technical details of his homebrew LED generator light.

Andy, thanks for a couple of great posts. I've been planning to try a
similar scheme, but I was lazily waiting for someone else to take the
initiative and do the trial and error. And you've done that for me.

I've saved your posts, and hope to try a similar project this winter.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 13 Sep 2007 19:17:00
From: Nigel Cliffe
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sep 13, 5:24 am, Andy M-S <marchantshap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ... technical details of his homebrew LED generator light.
>
> Andy, thanks for a couple of great posts. I've been planning to try a
> similar scheme, but I was lazily waiting for someone else to take the
> initiative and do the trial and error. And you've done that for me.
>
> I've saved your posts, and hope to try a similar project this winter.

At the risk of sounding like an AOL user of 10 years ago, I'd also like to
thank Andy for the same reasons.

Posts duly saved, and UK suppliers of the equivalent bits are being scoured
now...

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 04:11:38
From: CoyoteBoy
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On 13 Sep, 03:24, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <1189604115.178468.273...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> CoyoteBoy <james.buc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 12 Sep, 13:17, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > In article <1189595430.029136.185...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > CoyoteBoy <james.buc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On 12 Sep, 05:12, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets
> > > > > of batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just
> > > > > use a generator system?
>
> > > > I have no issues carrying extra batteries and swapping them. I'd
> > > > like a dynamo but they dont do 40w 12v ones for less than the
> > > > price of my lights and several sets of fairly lightweight
> > > > batteries so it just isnt sensible.
>
> > > Why the bloody hell do you think you need a 12V 40W lighting system
> > > on a bike? Unless you have night blindness that is major overkill.
> > > 10W lights are already bright enough to screw up your vision at
> > > night, 40W would just be much worse.
>
> > At 30-40mph off-road with jumps I like being able to see. It screws
> > up other peoples night sight, sure, but they all crowd in behind me
> > on descents so they can see better :)
>
> Testosterone poisoning must adversely affect one's eyesight.

:) lol I tend to do fairly short rides on fast trails, climb forever
on a 3w head torch and then switch on the fun lights for all-out
pedaling on the way back. Its not common to reach 30+ but I'd rather
have enough light to let me do that than have to go slow because i
cant see enough. Even so it catches me out sometimes lol. I've heard
wearing red-filter sunglasses can help a lot though, as the night-
sight chemicals in your eyes are not bleached by red light as much.
Might be worth a try.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 17:44:28
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <1189681898.696908.91560@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com >,
CoyoteBoy <james.buckle@gmail.com > wrote:

> On 13 Sep, 03:24, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > In article <1189604115.178468.273...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> > CoyoteBoy <james.buc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 12 Sep, 13:17, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <1189595430.029136.185...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > > > CoyoteBoy <james.buc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On 12 Sep, 05:12, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four
> > > > > > sets of batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why
> > > > > > not just use a generator system?
> >
> > > > > I have no issues carrying extra batteries and swapping them.
> > > > > I'd like a dynamo but they dont do 40w 12v ones for less than
> > > > > the price of my lights and several sets of fairly lightweight
> > > > > batteries so it just isnt sensible.
> >
> > > > Why the bloody hell do you think you need a 12V 40W lighting
> > > > system on a bike? Unless you have night blindness that is
> > > > major overkill. 10W lights are already bright enough to screw
> > > > up your vision at night, 40W would just be much worse.
> >
> > > At 30-40mph off-road with jumps I like being able to see. It
> > > screws up other peoples night sight, sure, but they all crowd in
> > > behind me on descents so they can see better :)
> >
> > Testosterone poisoning must adversely affect one's eyesight.
>
> :) lol I tend to do fairly short rides on fast trails, climb forever
> on a 3w head torch and then switch on the fun lights for all-out
> pedaling on the way back. Its not common to reach 30+ but I'd rather
> have enough light to let me do that than have to go slow because i
> cant see enough. Even so it catches me out sometimes lol. I've heard
> wearing red-filter sunglasses can help a lot though, as the night-
> sight chemicals in your eyes are not bleached by red light as much.
> Might be worth a try.

For riding like that I think you would find generator lights- even 12V
40W- unsuitable.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 02:24:48
From: Andy M-S
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 12, 8:47 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Andy M-S wrote:
> > Generators, hub and/or bottle, are an excellent way to light the road;
> > but they've been handicapped by inefficient lights--incandescent
> > lights, including halogens, honestly work better with batteries. With
> > LEDs, generators come into their own, and no complex circuits are
> > needed to make things work.
>
> Yes, it seems that with the Solidlight, or equivalent homebrew LED you
> can finally get a decent amount of light with a dynamo system.
>
> What is the voltage out of the bridge rectifier? Do you use a capacitor
> to smooth the peaks or not bother? Are the LEDs regulated at all? There
> must be a series resistor either built in or external.
>
> The difficult issue with the high power LED lights is dissipating all
> the heat from the semiconductor junction. It's a common misconception
> that LED lights generate no heat, while in fact the high power LEDs
> generate significant amounts of heat.

The rectifier I'm using is rated at 400v, 1.5A--reasonably
conservative; it *might* eat itself if both LEDs shorted. But (A)
that's an unlikely failure mode, and (B) honestly, in that case, who
cares about the bridge? As long as the LEDs are working, all should
be well. I got the bridge here:

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/FWB-15/search/1_1_2_AMP_400_PIV_FULL_WAVE_BRIDGE_RECTIFIER_.html

There are *no* other electronics. I do not use a capacitor; I played
with a 1F 5.5v goldcap across one of the LEDs, but the stand light
effect didn't last long enough, not was it bright enough, to seem to
me to be worth including the cap. Nor is any flicker apparent except
at what I consider unusually low speeds--and at that point, the
flicker is kind of nice to have as an attention-drawing device, and in
any event I'm nearly stationary and in be-seen rather than see-by mode
with regard to my lighting.

No resistor is used; the bridge provides a small amount of resistance,
since it's not a high-efficiency unit, but that's all. Remember that
these LEDs are rated to produce full output at around 700ma, which is
more than the (Shimano model '70) is able to produce. Fortunately,
LEDs are generally efficient devices and light up extremely well long
before you reach the rated current. My initial test runs with a
regulated bench supply knocked my socks off!

Heatsinking is simply not as big an issue as one might think. My
first K2 light was wired the same as the above, but with a single LED
housed in a section of steerer from a 1-1/8" threadless fork. From
someone else on the web, I got the idea of mounting the LED star to a
star-fangled nut (nice coincidence, eh?), via a small cylinder of
aluminum. This too was extremely bright, and flickered/died only at
about very low speeds indeed (probably because it was easier to
achieve a voltage at which the LED would light), However, I was very
concerned about heat, hence the nice heavy aluminum casing.

I do not know what the junction temperature was, but the casing only
ever grew very slightly warm--certainly nothing like the casing on a
5- or 10-watt halogen/reflector light. I suspect this was because (A)
being fed from a pulsing DC source (recitifier output) the duty cycle
of the LED was low, and (B) whenever the LED is energized, the bike
was moving and the case was exposed to moving, not static air, and so
cooling was not merely convection. Forced-air cooling, all the time.

For the second light, both LEDs are mounted via thermal epoxy to a
steel washer (the nice thing about the K2 star is that it is
electrically isolated, so I could do this and not worry about
insulation) which is mounted (again via thermal epoxy) to an old
aluminum bullet-light housing. Once the epoxy was set, it was
reinforced with silicon caulk. At the section of casing where the
washer meets it, the temperature immediately after stopping has never
been more than a fraction of a degree over that of, say, the fender
beneath. So, unscientifically, I'd say that the light stays
reasonably cool.

Both lights used lenses and lens holders like these:

http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=1777&link_str=327&partno=L2OP015
http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=1778&link_str=327&partno=L2OP025
http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=1782&link_str=327&partno=L2OHS35-WH

For the first light, I used a 15-degree lens, which was excellent (I
also played with a narrower one, which was OK, but I wasn't that
impressed). For the second light, I put on 15-degree and one wide-
angle lens to use; that allows me a beam as well as a widef spill of
light, both of which are useful for visiblity to traffic and for use
on unlighted trails (part of my daily commute takes me on a moderately
curvy 2 mile MUT across a well-treed and unlit marsh, far from any
artificial lighting, occasionally frequented by iPod-equipped joggers
who think solid black is a fashionable color and reflectors are for
wimps. I like being able to see them in advance.

Neither light was planned all that thoroughly, and I was quite willing
to accept burnt-out LEDs along the way. In fact, nothing like that
has happened, which leads me to suspect that. for bike-lighting
purposes, doing much more than treating one or two K2s and a bridge
just as you would a light bulb is a waste of time. As long as you
follow half-decent wiring practices and use a metal casing to provide
heat conductance to the moving air, you have a light that blows away
the competition.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 19:40:11
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 12, 7:21 pm, David Horwitt <dbo...@aogsquid.ucsd.edu > wrote:
> ... I suspect 'most' dynamo-enlightened cyclists have used battery driven
> lights, and found the dynamos more useful for their particular situation.

Absolutely. For me, the charging and replacing (and forgetting) of
batteries was just not worth it.

Can you imagine doing that to get headlights on your car or
motorcycle? "I'm sorry, honey, I didn't bring the batteries for our
car's lighting system, because I didn't think the movie would be so
long. We'll have to walk home."

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 13 Sep 2007 08:19:12
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <1189651211.630208.91290@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com >, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>
>Absolutely. For me, the charging and replacing (and forgetting) of
>batteries was just not worth it.
>
>Can you imagine doing that to get headlights on your car or
>motorcycle? "I'm sorry, honey, I didn't bring the batteries for our
>car's lighting system, because I didn't think the movie would be so
>long. We'll have to walk home."

A friend of mine did have an ancient AJS with magneto ignition and
no dynamo or alternator to charge the battery, so did have to take the
battery off to charge it. In the end he just took the light off altogether
and only used it on fine days. It wasn't, obviously, his main mode of
transport, and plenty of cyclists do the same, at least with some bikes.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 01:57:36
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On 13 Sep 2007 08:19:12 +0100 (BST), armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan
Braggins) wrote:

>In article <1189651211.630208.91290@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>Absolutely. For me, the charging and replacing (and forgetting) of
>>batteries was just not worth it.
>>
>>Can you imagine doing that to get headlights on your car or
>>motorcycle? "I'm sorry, honey, I didn't bring the batteries for our
>>car's lighting system, because I didn't think the movie would be so
>>long. We'll have to walk home."
>
>A friend of mine did have an ancient AJS with magneto ignition and
>no dynamo or alternator to charge the battery, so did have to take the
>battery off to charge it. In the end he just took the light off altogether
>and only used it on fine days. It wasn't, obviously, his main mode of
>transport, and plenty of cyclists do the same, at least with some bikes.

Dear Frank & Alan,

In the 1970's, some Honda single-cylinder 4-stroke short track racers
were modified to run a total loss ignition, removing the magneto and
using just a battery for spark.

The advantage was that without the magneto flywheel, the beast would
rev up faster, an example of rotating mass that really did make a
difference.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Date: 12 Sep 2007 19:35:54
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 12, 4:24 pm, Chris Gerhard <nos...@thegerhards.com > wrote:
> SMS wrote:
> >
>
> > Sure the SON can be pushed
> > to that [12 V, 6 W] at higher speeds, but it's not practical for many users.
>
> My son is wired for 12V and only when the speed drops below 10mph does
> it fade, but then at that speed it is really not a problem.

Two comments: First, getting 12 V, 6 W is also possible with at least
some roller dynamos. I do it with my Soubitez roller unit. It's
probably less likely to be successful with a bottle unit, though,
because the smaller diameter roller is more likely to slip under the
heavier load.

Second, if your two headlights in series do go too dim under 10 mph
(or whatever speed), you can cure it by wiring a shunt switch in
parallel with the second headlight. Close the switch to short across
it to take it out of the circuit at low speed, putting full power
through the one lamp. Open the switch at higher speed for both
lamps.

I've done this, with the switch mounted at my handlebar, near my
thumb. In fact, the version now on my commuting bike has a single
pole, double throw, center off switch, wired so I can select either
headlight, or both. It works pretty well.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 13 Sep 2007 08:41:38
From: Chris Gerhard
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sep 12, 4:24 pm, Chris Gerhard <nos...@thegerhards.com> wrote:
>> SMS wrote:
>>> Sure the SON can be pushed
>>> to that [12 V, 6 W] at higher speeds, but it's not practical for many users.
>> My son is wired for 12V and only when the speed drops below 10mph does
>> it fade, but then at that speed it is really not a problem.
>
> Two comments: First, getting 12 V, 6 W is also possible with at least
> some roller dynamos. I do it with my Soubitez roller unit. It's
> probably less likely to be successful with a bottle unit, though,
> because the smaller diameter roller is more likely to slip under the
> heavier load.
>
> Second, if your two headlights in series do go too dim under 10 mph
> (or whatever speed), you can cure it by wiring a shunt switch in
> parallel with the second headlight. Close the switch to short across
> it to take it out of the circuit at low speed, putting full power
> through the one lamp. Open the switch at higher speed for both
> lamps.
>
> I've done this, with the switch mounted at my handlebar, near my
> thumb. In fact, the version now on my commuting bike has a single
> pole, double throw, center off switch, wired so I can select either
> headlight, or both. It works pretty well.

Indeed the Schmit E6-Z has exactly that arrangement and is the light I use.

I used to be a dynamo bad person until I tried a modern one since then I
would not want to go back to batteries. For commuting and general use
having lights permanently attached to the bike that always work is a winner.

--chris

Date: 12 Sep 2007 19:26:40
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 12, 4:13 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
> > Why not? The only time you need the very top of the watt range is going
> > downhill. Anyone can coast down a hill.
>
> Perhaps that true for you, but don't presume to speak to the vast
> majority of transportatinoal cyclists in the U.S..

What an odd thing for Scharf to say! For years now, he's been
claiming that _he_ knows what's best for all transportational cyclists
in the U.S., and denying the experiences of the many who disagree!

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 12 Sep 2007 19:08:43
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 12, 1:54 pm, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu > wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Dave Larrington <smert.spamio...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Tch! You're just being silly, Tim. Surely /everybody/ knows that neither
> > LED lights nor dynamo systems are suitable for actually seeing where one is
> > going at night.
> > </thudding_irony>
>
> Funny. That's not the opinion of the fellow who flipped me off last
> night and yelled at me "Dim your lights asshole!". I didn't think it
> was *that* bright, but evidently I was mistaken. I'll have to be much
> more careful of other cyclists on the commute this winter than with my
> old light.

Hmm. Sounds like the Solidlights unit could benefit from a proper
front lens! If it's blinding oncoming people, it's definitely wasting
light.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 13 Sep 2007 09:12:36
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <1189649323.900376.86960@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com >, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>On Sep 12, 1:54 pm, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu> wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc Dave Larrington <smert.spamio...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Tch! You're just being silly, Tim. Surely /everybody/ knows that neither
>> > LED lights nor dynamo systems are suitable for actually seeing where one is
>> > going at night.
>> > </thudding_irony>
>>
>> Funny. That's not the opinion of the fellow who flipped me off last
>> night and yelled at me "Dim your lights asshole!". I didn't think it
>> was *that* bright, but evidently I was mistaken. I'll have to be much
>> more careful of other cyclists on the commute this winter than with my
>> old light.
>
>Hmm. Sounds like the Solidlights unit could benefit from a proper
>front lens! If it's blinding oncoming people, it's definitely wasting
>light.

I've only tried the Solidlights 1103. It is a symmetrical beam, not shaped
like a Lumotec or similar, but certainly no worse than many MR-11 based
halogen lights. (The 1103 was not putting as much useful light on the
road as my cheap 10W halogen when the halogen battery pack was fully charged,
but not wasting anything like as much splashed around. An hour later, the
unregulated halogen was putting less light on the road.)
The 1203 will be brighter at full power (two LEDs, not one), but I wouldn't
have thought it was excessive if reasonably aimed.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 08:35:57
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Alan Braggins wrote:

> I've only tried the Solidlights 1103. It is a symmetrical beam, not shaped
> like a Lumotec or similar, but certainly no worse than many MR-11 based
> halogen lights. (The 1103 was not putting as much useful light on the
> road as my cheap 10W halogen when the halogen battery pack was fully charged,
> but not wasting anything like as much splashed around. An hour later, the
> unregulated halogen was putting less light on the road.)
> The 1203 will be brighter at full power (two LEDs, not one), but I wouldn't
> have thought it was excessive if reasonably aimed.

There's a misunderstanding, apparently among at least a couple of
people, that the optics of the typical light used with dynamo systems is
some wonder of technology that creates more light than other systems.

In fact, these lamps are specifically designed as a compromise solution.
From the photos, the Solidlight does not need to make those compromises
and provides a beam with both sufficient spread and sufficient spot beam.

As Marty Goodman wrote, in the _History of Electric Lighting Technology_
"With vastly more light available, night bicycling is qualitatively far
safer. The road can be lit both further ahead and, even more important,
far more brightly to the sides of the bicycle."

As to the MR16, the big advantage of this type of lamp, and the reason
it is so widely used (along with the MR11) in bicycle lamps, is because
of the precision matched reflector and the precise positioning of the
bulb inside the reflector. With a precise beam, less light is wasted. On
a dual lamp system, with spot and flood beams, you can illuminate both
far ahead of the bicycle, and out to the sides. I'm sure Frank will
start up with his usual mindless comments about "decorator lamps" but in
fact the MR lamps are used in a wide variety of scientific, consumer,
and commercial products because of their efficiency.

To me personally, the biggest advantage of using good lights is that I
can ride home from work at a much faster speed than I could with dynamo
lights (which I do own). The reason for this is because with low power
lights, drivers do not yield to bicyclists nearly as much. They expect
the bicycle to be traveling at a low speed, 5-10 mph. They cut you off
at traffic lights (turning left in front of you), they go through stop
signs (thinking they have plenty of time), and they exit from parking
lots and driveways directly in your path. With higher power lights (and
I'm not talking about megawatts) there is a huge change in their
behavior. The whole world is not like Amsterdam.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 18:43:17
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46e9588e$0$27181$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >, SMS wrote:
>There's a misunderstanding, apparently among at least a couple of
>people, that the optics of the typical light used with dynamo systems is
> some wonder of technology that creates more light than other systems.

It's not a misunderstanding I've ever seen expressed here. Provide cites,
or admit you're bullshitting again. Or that you are really clueless enough
not to be able to tell the difference between "creates more light", and
"provides a better distribution of what light there is".

Date: 13 Sep 2007 16:52:09
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> The whole world is not like Amsterdam.

Well spotted. Now if you think that the UK is anything like Amsterdam
do come over and be disabused of your incorrect belief. Despite living
there I don't appear to have the problems you do running dynamo lights
even though I'm often at greater speeds than the low ones you seem to
think they're limited to. The whole world isn't like your back yard
either. Not even all parts of the US, judging from US dynamo users who
don't appear to have the same problems you do.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 10:05:34
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
>> The whole world is not like Amsterdam.
>
> Well spotted. Now if you think that the UK is anything like Amsterdam
> do come over and be disabused of your incorrect belief. Despite living
> there I don't appear to have the problems you do running dynamo lights
> even though I'm often at greater speeds than the low ones you seem to
> think they're limited to. The whole world isn't like your back yard
> either. Not even all parts of the US, judging from US dynamo users who
> don't appear to have the same problems you do.

LOL, don't take the word of the two or three U.S. users that post on Usenet!

Date: 13 Sep 2007 20:26:20
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> LOL, don't take the word of the two or three U.S. users that post on
> Usenet!

Unless, of course, it's Scharf, who is of course completely
credible and always right. You really don't do irony, do you?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 17:49:33
From: Ace
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 08:35:57 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com >
wrote:

>With higher power lights (and
>I'm not talking about megawatts) there is a huge change in their
>behavior.

I'd agree with that, and also add that with a twin-lamp setup there's
a tendency to make the driver wonder, however briefly, if the oncoming
lights belong to a car, motorcycle, or scooter. If they're bright and
slightly badly adjusted[1], this uncertainty can be made to last a
couple of second, during which the driver is preparing for a
faster-moving vehicle (i.e. me, rather than someone toddling along at
5mph).

[1] Not that I'd ever deliberately blind oncoming drivers who refuse
to dip their lights, oh no, not ever.

--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom

Date: 12 Sep 2007 17:58:06
From: Andy M-S
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 12, 6:21 pm, David Horwitt <dbo...@aogsquid.ucsd.edu > wrote:
> SMS wrote:
> > Dane Buson wrote:
>
> > Typical. You of course are well aware of what part of your statement I
> > was referring to. Of course we all know that the world revolves around
> > you, so the fact that most transportational cyclists do need the "top of
> > the watt range" (assuming you meant the top of the lumens range, but I
> > don't expect you to understand the difference).
>
> I don't understand your vehement, consistent denial of the fact that dynamo
> lights solve a problem for a large set of trsnaportational cyclists (of which
> I am one). I found that dealing with batteries was a pain in the neck, and that
> a dynamo light provides adequate lighting for my needs (and, apparently, the
> needs of many other thread contributors). It's always there, and I never have
> to deal with it, and it helps get me home safely and efficiently in the dark.
>
> Since you are fond of speaking for 'most transportational cyclists', I'll
> add that I suspect 'most' dynamo-enlightened cyclists have used battery driven
> lights, and found the dynamos more useful for their particular situation.
>
> DH

Time for my $.02.

I'm another transportational cyclist. I have used battery-powered
halogen lights; I have used battery-powered LEDs. I have used hub-
dynamo-powered halogens, and hub-dyno-powered LEDs. I have commuted
early morning and late evening for a good many years.

My current main headlight consists of two Luxeon K2 LEDs in series,
powered from a Shimano dynohub by way of a bridge rectifier. I built
the light into an old bullet headlight casing. One of the LEDs has a
wide-angle lens, the other a 15-degree (medium) lens. Total cost
excluding the front wheel was $30, shipping included. No standlight,
though I could have added one for $5 and some additional work, but I
was lazy. The front wheel cost me $120 a few years ago; it would have
cost $160 (approx) but I reused a rim and had the shop build the
wheel, so things even out.

This arrangement puts out significantly more light than friends' 10-
and 15-watt Halogen systems (and these are not bargain-basement
systems, either). I never have to charge it, and while the light
starts to pulse (very rapidly) at around 7 MPH, it doesn't die until
~3 MPH. I never need to worry about batteries, I never need to worry
about whether I will be riding after dark. A tiny Cateye blinker on
the headtube makes up for my laziness in not adding a standlight
circuit.

IMO, the Solidlights people have a great product, and they're likely
making a reasonable profit. But LEDs are for everybody, and anyone
with a modicum of skill can make their own headlight.

Generators, hub and/or bottle, are an excellent way to light the road;
but they've been handicapped by inefficient lights--incandescent
lights, including halogens, honestly work better with batteries. With
LEDs, generators come into their own, and no complex circuits are
needed to make things work.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 18:47:18
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Andy M-S wrote:

> Generators, hub and/or bottle, are an excellent way to light the road;
> but they've been handicapped by inefficient lights--incandescent
> lights, including halogens, honestly work better with batteries. With
> LEDs, generators come into their own, and no complex circuits are
> needed to make things work.

Yes, it seems that with the Solidlight, or equivalent homebrew LED you
can finally get a decent amount of light with a dynamo system.

What is the voltage out of the bridge rectifier? Do you use a capacitor
to smooth the peaks or not bother? Are the LEDs regulated at all? There
must be a series resistor either built in or external.

The difficult issue with the high power LED lights is dissipating all
the heat from the semiconductor junction. It's a common misconception
that LED lights generate no heat, while in fact the high power LEDs
generate significant amounts of heat.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 08:45:13
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> Yes, it seems that with the Solidlight, or equivalent homebrew LED you
> can finally get a decent amount of light with a dynamo system.

I use a (considerably cheaper and off the shelf) B&M D-Oval Senso Plus
and I get a decent amount of light. How do I know it's decent? Because
I use it on unlit country lanes and get where I'm going with no
particular bother!

> The difficult issue with the high power LED lights is dissipating all
> the heat from the semiconductor junction. It's a common misconception
> that LED lights generate no heat, while in fact the high power LEDs
> generate significant amounts of heat.

Well, I just put the off-the-shelf unit and off I go, and it works, and
it gives me enough light. B&M did the engineering bit (aside from
tightening the mounting bolt), and seem to know what they're at. I
guess that's why they do it professionally, for thouands and thousands
of riders...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 08:15:26
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46e89657$0$27201$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >, SMS wrote:
> Are the LEDs regulated at all? There
>must be a series resistor either built in or external.

Only in the sense that you can't practically wire a dynamo with
superconductors. You can't get enough current out of a hub dynamo
to damage a high-power LED with proper heatsinking. There's no
need to put in additional resistors or regulation, as there would be
with a battery system.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 02:20:53
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

"Andy M-S" <marchantshapiro@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1189645086.258268.287660@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...

> My current main headlight consists of two Luxeon K2 LEDs in series,
> powered from a Shimano dynohub by way of a bridge rectifier.

Any other components? (resistor?)

cheers,
clive

Date: 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10
From: dkahn400
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 10, 12:48 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> dkahn400 <dkahn...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > The unit gives a general wash of light with a very bright central
> > area. Best results seem to be obtained by angling the unit down far
> > more than you would with most lights so the bright spot is 4 - 5
> > yards in front of the bike. The road beyond the bright spot will
> > still be lit well enough to travel confidently at 30 mph, both verges
> > will be plainly visible, and distant signposts will light up. With
> > the unit angled down like this oncoming vehicles will not be dazzled
> > but you will still get comments from people about how bright the
> > lights seem.
>
> Is this mounted at the handlebar or lower? I mount my lights about
> level with the top of the tire.

Mounted on the fork crown in my case.

--
Dave...

Date: 12 Sep 2007 06:35:15
From: CoyoteBoy
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On 12 Sep, 13:17, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <1189595430.029136.185...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> CoyoteBoy <james.buc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 12 Sep, 05:12, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> > > batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> > > generator system?
>
> > I have no issues carrying extra batteries and swapping them. I'd like
> > a dynamo but they dont do 40w 12v ones for less than the price of my
> > lights and several sets of fairly lightweight batteries so it just
> > isnt sensible.
>
> Why the bloody hell do you think you need a 12V 40W lighting system on a
> bike? Unless you have night blindness that is major overkill. 10W
> lights are already bright enough to screw up your vision at night, 40W
> would just be much worse.

At 30-40mph off-road with jumps I like being able to see. It screws up
other peoples night sight, sure, but they all crowd in behind me on
descents so they can see better :)

Date: 12 Sep 2007 21:24:42
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <1189604115.178468.273820@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com >,
CoyoteBoy <james.buckle@gmail.com > wrote:

> On 12 Sep, 13:17, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > In article <1189595430.029136.185...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > CoyoteBoy <james.buc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 12 Sep, 05:12, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets
> > > > of batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just
> > > > use a generator system?
> >
> > > I have no issues carrying extra batteries and swapping them. I'd
> > > like a dynamo but they dont do 40w 12v ones for less than the
> > > price of my lights and several sets of fairly lightweight
> > > batteries so it just isnt sensible.
> >
> > Why the bloody hell do you think you need a 12V 40W lighting system
> > on a bike? Unless you have night blindness that is major overkill.
> > 10W lights are already bright enough to screw up your vision at
> > night, 40W would just be much worse.
>
> At 30-40mph off-road with jumps I like being able to see. It screws
> up other peoples night sight, sure, but they all crowd in behind me
> on descents so they can see better :)

Testosterone poisoning must adversely affect one's eyesight.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 13:26:26
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 12, 8:55 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
>
>
> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
> anyway.

That makes no sense.

The bicyclist riding at night should not care whether he's got a 12
Volt system, or a 6 Volt system, or a 3 Volt system. As proof, a
Luxeon Star LED uses about 3 Volts.

More to the point, a bicyclist riding at night should not care whether
he's got 6 Watts, or 3 Watts or 20 Watts. Why? Because he should
care about how well he can see the road. "Watts" does not measure
that. "Watts" does not even measure the total amount of light
output. It measures the input electrical power.

I learned this years ago, by comparing headlights with my cycling
friends. My best friend bought a 10 Watt rechargeable halogen unit
that was grossly inferior to my 3 Watt generator light - so much so
that he used it only a couple times before retiring it.

I confirmed this by giving a technical talk on lights at my bike
club. I brought in a 6 Watt rechargeable unit I owned. When we
compared beams, it threw more useful light than a 20 Watt unit owned
by a different friend.

Part of the problem is optics, and another part is bulb (or emitter)
efficiency. Regarding efficiency, you want the bulb or emitter to
give a suitably large number of lumens output per Watt input. LEDs
are making great strides in that efficiency. Regarding optics, you
want those lumens to be directed properly onto the road surface.
AFAIK, there is nothing on the market that beats a good generator
headlamp's optics.

So what you want are enough lumens directed properly on the road.
Voltage doesn't really matter, and given the rapid improvements in
LEDs, Wattage is only vaguely related.

> For now, if you want a "safe and efficient bicycle lighting system"
> that's reasonably priced you have to go the battery route.

Of course, Steven M. Scharf (AKA "SMS"), you insist on ignoring the
millions upon millions of cyclists who ride, safely and efficiently,
using the most popular means of bike lighting in the world - the
generator set.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 12 Sep 2007 04:10:30
From: CoyoteBoy
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On 12 Sep, 05:12, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <13eeh561k351...@corp.supernews.com>,
> Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Count me among those pleased with the Dinotte (Ultra 5).
>
> > > A rubber band round the battery pack and connector is a workaround
> > > I resort to as well. The only other modification to my Dinotte
> > > package was replacing the less than waterproof battery case holder
> > > with a neoprene (Topeak) multitool case that had been bouncing
> > > about my spare parts bin. Although it also is not completely
> > > waterproof it affords better protection during downpours than the
> > > stock item.
>
> > > And the convenience of the AA batteries is a bonus. With NiMH AAs
> > > of over 2500 milli-amp hours readily available the Dinotte Ultra 5
> > > will easily last 2+ hours on 'high' mode before automatically
> > > kicking into energy saver mode.
>
> > ---------------
>
> > I've never had mine in the rain. Is the light waterproof? For the
> > bat pack, a less elegant solution is simply to double rap the pack
> > with a plastic bag and rubber bands. But I always wondered about the
> > light, it's waterproofness. I have done some all night rides, so a
> > recharging is out of the question, so the AA setup of the DiNotte
> > works perfect for me. If it goes dim, just either put some more Nimh
> > bats in, or carry some alkaline's with you.
>
> Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> generator system?

I have no issues carrying extra batteries and swapping them. I'd like
a dynamo but they dont do 40w 12v ones for less than the price of my
lights and several sets of fairly lightweight batteries so it just
isnt sensible.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 07:17:42
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <1189595430.029136.185950@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
CoyoteBoy <james.buckle@gmail.com > wrote:

> On 12 Sep, 05:12, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> > batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> > generator system?
>
> I have no issues carrying extra batteries and swapping them. I'd like
> a dynamo but they dont do 40w 12v ones for less than the price of my
> lights and several sets of fairly lightweight batteries so it just
> isnt sensible.

Why the bloody hell do you think you need a 12V 40W lighting system on a
bike? Unless you have night blindness that is major overkill. 10W
lights are already bright enough to screw up your vision at night, 40W
would just be much worse.

Date: 10 Sep 2007 22:52:59
From: Andy M-S
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 9, 7:55 am, dkahn400 <dkahn...@googlemail.com > wrote:

> The unit gives a general wash of light with a very bright central
> area. Best results seem to be obtained by angling the unit down far
> more than you would with most lights so the bright spot is 4 - 5 yards
> in front of the bike. The road beyond the bright spot will still be
> lit well enough to travel confidently at 30 mph, both verges will be
> plainly visible, and distant signposts will light up. With the unit
> angled down like this oncoming vehicles will not be dazzled but you
> will still get comments from people about how bright the lights seem.
>
> Because of the lack of a defined beam pattern the unit is much more
> impressive on very dark roads than well lit ones. Under good street
> lighting, and in a car headlight beam, the effect of illuminating the
> road almost disappears although of course you are still highly visible
> to oncoming traffic. In good street lighting I think it makes sense to
> switch to flashing mode, reverting to steady mode when ambient light
> is low.

I suspect that the 'wash of light' effect is likely due to the use of
lenses rather than reflectors. My dual LED headlight (homemade with 2
Luxeon K2s, one 15-degree and one wide-angle lens, running off a
Shimano dynohub) has the same wash effect. It works very well...but
an inexpensive 1W LED I recently put on my son's bike has a nice sharp
beam--it's using a reflector.

OTOH, I really liked the wash effect the other night when I had to
ride home through near-total darkness!

Date: 10 Sep 2007 09:58:54
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 10, 12:42 pm, purehe...@pacbell.net wrote:
> On Sep 10, 9:26 am, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu> wrote:
>
>
> > I believe the SON does come in 40 and 48 hole versions, though I
> > wouldn't know where to get them. I went with the Shimano as the frugal
> > and 'good enough' option. The Shimano only comes in 32H and 36H.
>
> I since saw on Peter White's site that it is available in 40H and 48H,
> at an extra cost. (Gee, what is this, like women's clothing where you
> pay more for less? You'd think that they'd be *cheaper* since there's
> less metal! <insert smiley here>)

You're forgetting that the versions with more holes are lighter! And
lighter bike components _always_ cost more! It's a law, isn't
it? ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 10 Sep 2007 09:42:53
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 10, 9:26 am, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu > wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc purehe...@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> > Dane Buson wrote:
> >> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> >> Found at:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> >> Cost: 155 GBP
>
> > <snip>
>
> >> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
> >> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
> >> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
> > Apropos dynamos, do you have an opinion regarding the SON dynamo re:
> > the quality of the bearings?
>
> Are you interested in the service life, or the drag when when it's
> on/off? Because the bearings don't have much to do with dynamo drag,
> that has more to do with the hub's design.

Service life. I've got so much junk I carry to/from work that drag is
the least of my worries.

> I belive the SON hubs have sealed cartridge bearings.
>
> > If I were to convert to one it would mean giving up my beloved Phil Wood Hub
> > which as served me well for many years (at least during my 'lighting
> > season'). Do they come in 40 and 48H versions and do you find the quality
> > adequate? (following up my own previous post)
>
> I believe the SON does come in 40 and 48 hole versions, though I
> wouldn't know where to get them. I went with the Shimano as the frugal
> and 'good enough' option. The Shimano only comes in 32H and 36H.
>
I since saw on Peter White's site that it is available in 40H and 48H,
at an extra cost. (Gee, what is this, like women's clothing where you
pay more for less? You'd think that they'd be *cheaper* since there's
less metal! <insert smiley here >)

> --
> Dane Buson - sigd...@unixbigots.org
> "You are welcome to visit the cemetery where famous
> Russian and Soviet composers, artists, and writers
> are buried daily except Thursday."
> -In the Lobby of a Moscow Hotel Across from a Russian Orthodox Monastary

pH

Date: 09 Sep 2007 05:55:02
From: dkahn400
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 9, 3:06 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> I saw several photos of bikes on PBP that had these weird looking square
> boxed headlamps with two lenses. This is what those are. Too bad that
> the Web site doesn't include the beam pattern for this particular unit.
> It looks quite interesting.

The unit gives a general wash of light with a very bright central
area. Best results seem to be obtained by angling the unit down far
more than you would with most lights so the bright spot is 4 - 5 yards
in front of the bike. The road beyond the bright spot will still be
lit well enough to travel confidently at 30 mph, both verges will be
plainly visible, and distant signposts will light up. With the unit
angled down like this oncoming vehicles will not be dazzled but you
will still get comments from people about how bright the lights seem.

Because of the lack of a defined beam pattern the unit is much more
impressive on very dark roads than well lit ones. Under good street
lighting, and in a car headlight beam, the effect of illuminating the
road almost disappears although of course you are still highly visible
to oncoming traffic. In good street lighting I think it makes sense to
switch to flashing mode, reverting to steady mode when ambient light
is low.

--
Dave...

Date: 09 Sep 2007 18:48:57
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <1189342502.910750.194750@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com >,
dkahn400 <dkahn400@googlemail.com > wrote:

> On Sep 9, 3:06 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > I saw several photos of bikes on PBP that had these weird looking
> > square boxed headlamps with two lenses. This is what those are.
> > Too bad that the Web site doesn't include the beam pattern for this
> > particular unit. It looks quite interesting.
>
> The unit gives a general wash of light with a very bright central
> area. Best results seem to be obtained by angling the unit down far
> more than you would with most lights so the bright spot is 4 - 5
> yards in front of the bike. The road beyond the bright spot will
> still be lit well enough to travel confidently at 30 mph, both verges
> will be plainly visible, and distant signposts will light up. With
> the unit angled down like this oncoming vehicles will not be dazzled
> but you will still get comments from people about how bright the
> lights seem.

Is this mounted at the handlebar or lower? I mount my lights about
level with the top of the tire.

> Because of the lack of a defined beam pattern the unit is much more
> impressive on very dark roads than well lit ones. Under good street
> lighting, and in a car headlight beam, the effect of illuminating the
> road almost disappears although of course you are still highly
> visible to oncoming traffic. In good street lighting I think it makes
> sense to switch to flashing mode, reverting to steady mode when
> ambient light is low.

Thanks for the further information.

Date: 09 Sep 2007 05:44:28
From: dkahn400
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 8, 7:28 am, Zog The Undeniable <hrothga...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
> > Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> > Found at:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> > Cost: 155 GBP
> > TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
> > dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.
>
> What does the gasket look like? I hear too many tales of light failure,
> perishing gaskets and water ingress even on fairly new units to swap my
> E6 for one at the moment.

I used a fairly new one on PBP. It was ideal for that but the O rings
were slightly perished, though the unit was new, and the unit got
quite moist inside. It continued to work well throughout PBP and the
ride home to Twickenham but failed a few days later while JRA.

The company's service was superb and they had the unit repaired and
back to me within 5 days, including a weekend. The included worksheet
mentioned the water ingress and the perished O rings, now renewed of
course, but also referred to an unspecied "unusual component failure".
In spite of my disappointment at the early failure I still have
confidence in the unit though not quite as much as previously, but the
lesson is always to have a backup of some kind and not rely on a
single lighting source no matter how good. So if using a Solidlight
with a dynamo the backup should really be a battery unit of some kind
as either the light or the dynamo could fail.

--
Dave...

Date: 10 Sep 2007 09:20:33
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc dkahn400 <dkahn400@googlemail.com > wrote:
> On Sep 8, 7:28 am, Zog The Undeniable <hrothga...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Dane Buson wrote:
>> > Review for: Solidlights 1203d
>> > Found at:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
>> > Cost: 155 GBP
>> > TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
>> > dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.
>>
>> What does the gasket look like? I hear too many tales of light failure,
>> perishing gaskets and water ingress even on fairly new units to swap my
>> E6 for one at the moment.
>
> I used a fairly new one on PBP. It was ideal for that but the O rings
> were slightly perished, though the unit was new, and the unit got
> quite moist inside. It continued to work well throughout PBP and the
> ride home to Twickenham but failed a few days later while JRA.
>
> The company's service was superb and they had the unit repaired and
> back to me within 5 days, including a weekend. The included worksheet
> mentioned the water ingress and the perished O rings, now renewed of
> course, but also referred to an unspecied "unusual component failure".
> In spite of my disappointment at the early failure I still have
> confidence in the unit though not quite as much as previously, but the
> lesson is always to have a backup of some kind and not rely on a
> single lighting source no matter how good. So if using a Solidlight
> with a dynamo the backup should really be a battery unit of some kind
> as either the light or the dynamo could fail.

Sounds like I should start carrying my extra light on my fork mount this
winter. I'm dreading the idea of shipping it back and forth across the
ocean.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern
technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat."

Date: 08 Sep 2007 18:32:03
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:55:16 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu >
wrote:

>A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
>flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
>LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).

Thanks for the review. It sounds like the best light around for those
of us who prefer to grind our own lumens.

The website pics are impressive.

Ugly or not, it sure beats a desk lamp or flashlight.
--
zk

Date: 10 Sep 2007 09:27:47
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:55:16 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
>>flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
>>LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
> Thanks for the review. It sounds like the best light around for those
> of us who prefer to grind our own lumens.

It is really nice. The only thing I'm concerned about is the
weatherproofing. I've toasted too many (battery) lights from moisture
to be less than leary. [1]
>
> The website pics are impressive.
>
> Ugly or not, it sure beats a desk lamp or flashlight.

True, true.

[1] Planet bike, I'm looking at you!

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
E = MC ** 2 +- 3db

Date: 10 Sep 2007 19:51:59
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:27:47 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu >
wrote:

>> Thanks for the review. It sounds like the best light around for those
>> of us who prefer to grind our own lumens.
>
>It is really nice. The only thing I'm concerned about is the
>weatherproofing. I've toasted too many (battery) lights from moisture
>to be less than leary. [1]

Silicone caulk holds together the parts of the globe not already
secured by duct tape.

It might cause warranty issues but it won't leak.
\
>[1] Planet bike, I'm looking at you!

I usually end up sealing the joint of their red 7 LED blinkies with
clear surgical tape.* It keeps the unit from coming apart and blocks
the ingress of water. Their Beamer 3 and Dual Spot headlights never
had problems.

*After losing the last PB 7 LED rear lamp, for half its price, I
replaced it with a 5 LED MEC brand light that uses the cheaper AA
batteries instead of AAA. It also neatly bolts directly to the
reflector bracket of the rack. I've not yet had to tape it.
--
zk

Date: 08 Sep 2007 21:06:06
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

I saw several photos of bikes on PBP that had these weird looking square
boxed headlamps with two lenses. This is what those are. Too bad that
the Web site doesn't include the beam pattern for this particular unit.
It looks quite interesting.

Date: 08 Sep 2007 17:59:51
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Dane Buson wrote:
> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> Cost: 155 GBP
>
<snip >

> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
<snip >
> --
> Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
> The party adjourned to a hot tub, yes. Fully clothed, I might add.
> -- IBM employee, testifying in California State Supreme Court

Apropos dynamos, do you have an opinion regarding the SON dynamo re:
the quality of the bearings? If I were to convert to one it would
mean giving up my beloved Phil Wood Hub which as served me well for
many years (at least during my 'lighting season'). Do they come in 40
and 48H versions and do you find the quality adequate?
(following up my own previous post)

Pureheart

Date: 11 Sep 2007 12:36:59
From: David Damerell
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Quoting <pureheart@pacbell.net >:
>many years (at least during my 'lighting season'). Do they come in 40
>and 48H versions and do you find the quality adequate?

The SON does come in 40/48 hole versions, but unless you're looking to use
only one rim drilling, 36 should be enough for a front. I've put a lot of
miles on a 36h SON wheel (albeit on a Sun Rhyno) on the tandem, and it's
fine.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk > flcl?
Today is Stilday, August - a weekend.

Date: 10 Sep 2007 20:19:33
From: Zog The Undeniable
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

pureheart@pacbell.net wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
>> Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
>> Cost: 155 GBP
>>
> <snip>
>
>> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
>> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
>> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>>
> <snip>
>> --
>> Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
>> The party adjourned to a hot tub, yes. Fully clothed, I might add.
>> -- IBM employee, testifying in California State Supreme Court
>
> Apropos dynamos, do you have an opinion regarding the SON dynamo re:
> the quality of the bearings? If I were to convert to one it would
> mean giving up my beloved Phil Wood Hub which as served me well for
> many years (at least during my 'lighting season'). Do they come in 40
> and 48H versions and do you find the quality adequate?
> (following up my own previous post)
>
> Pureheart
>
SON failures are incredibly rare. The bearings should be good for
30,000 miles or so, then you can either send the whole wheel to Schmidt
(or, in the US, Peter White) for service, or just buy a new one. It
probably doesn't owe you anything by then.

A word of advice - if you ride where they use salt on the roads in
winter, get the black powdercoated one. The polished one gets a bit
mottled in those conditions.

Date: 10 Sep 2007 09:26:20
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc pureheart@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
>> Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
>> Cost: 155 GBP
>>
> <snip>
>
>> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
>> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
>> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
> Apropos dynamos, do you have an opinion regarding the SON dynamo re:
> the quality of the bearings?

Are you interested in the service life, or the drag when when it's
on/off? Because the bearings don't have much to do with dynamo drag,
that has more to do with the hub's design.

I belive the SON hubs have sealed cartridge bearings.

> If I were to convert to one it would mean giving up my beloved Phil Wood Hub
> which as served me well for many years (at least during my 'lighting
> season'). Do they come in 40 and 48H versions and do you find the quality
> adequate? (following up my own previous post)

I believe the SON does come in 40 and 48 hole versions, though I
wouldn't know where to get them. I went with the Shimano as the frugal
and 'good enough' option. The Shimano only comes in 32H and 36H.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"You are welcome to visit the cemetery where famous
Russian and Soviet composers, artists, and writers
are buried daily except Thursday."
-In the Lobby of a Moscow Hotel Across from a Russian Orthodox Monastary

Date: 08 Sep 2007 17:51:39
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 7, 12:55 pm, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu > wrote:
> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> Found at:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> Cost: 155 GBP
>
> Note: TLDR summary at the bottom of article.
>
> For the last two years, I've been using a Lumotec Oval Plus and have
> been quite happy with it. Still, I can admit to a small amount of envy
> for my batteried brethren who spray the darkness indiscriminately with
> decawatts of light. On the other hand, no amount of shininess could
> compel me to use one again considering I often go on night time rides
> that last longer than five hours.
>
> While lurking in the uk.rec.cycling newsgroup I heard discussion of a
> company Solidlights that made LED dynamo headlights with dual LEDs.
> Dual 3 watt LEDs. Evidently the Audaxers and commuters who had stumped
> up the cash for it were delighted with it.
>
> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
> With one thing and another, I finally decided to jump in and buy it July
> 1st. A short week later it had been shipped across the pond to sunny
> Seattle and was sitting in my grubby hands.
>
> I first attempted to mount it on the fork. Previously with the Lumotec
> mounting there wasn't a problem, even with cantilever brakes.
> Unfortunately with the lower boxier shape of the 1203d, the front brake
> cable was rubbing the power cable and would have sawed through in time.
> [1] A *loooong* fork mount bracket and a spacer later I was happier with
> it.
>
> I went on a ride with some friends that night that lasted until after
> midnight. I was quite happy with the light, though the limited
> stretches of darkness (it was mostly urban riding except for a short
> stretch) forbade a really good test. One thing to note is that at low
> speeds (6-8 mph) it cast a *much* larger degree of light than my old
> lights.
>
> Oh, that mounting bracket? It broke the very next day. Damn potmetal.
> Currently the light is attached to a handlebar mounting bracket, and I
> haven't had any problems with it.
>
> I went on a longer ride with more stretches of real darkness, and this
> is where the light really shined. When I was catching up with a lead
> group, one of them commented that he thought I was a car coming from
> behind [3]. The light outperformed every battery headlight I have used
> previously (including a dual 6w / 12w halogen system). It was
> definitely not better than some of the 20-25W HID systems I've seen, but
> I was certainly carrying the brightest light of anyone there.
>
> Ease of use: It has a sealed button on the side. Press once to turn
> on, once more to change to blinking, once more to turn off. Dead
> simple.
>
> Quality of construction: It's a box. A nice sealed, gasketed, sturdy
> box. I have a feeling it will last quite a while, though it will win no
> awards for style. It has a locking style connector leading to the
> dynamo, very nice.
>
> Mounting: Available with a standard fork crown mounting or set up for a
> handlebar bracket.
>
> Drag: When it's in blink mode, the drag is unnoticeable. This makes it
> particularly attractive for cloudy days and see-me urban riding. The
> drag is barely perceptible when on, though I have no doubt it's there.
> Theoretically at max speed, I'm losing approximately 12 watts [4]. It's
> probably a touch more. On the other hand, I weigh 200 pounds, and I'm
> only losing those watts when I'm already near top speed. Smaller riders
> might not be so sanguine about that.
>
> Some impressions: This is definitely the product of a small engineering
> company. The serial number on my light is 000214, so they're not many
> out there. On the other hand, the dynamo lights are evidently an
> outgrowth of their battery lights IIRC, so it is a tested design.
>
> Conclusion: I love the light, and really look forward to using it for
> my winter commute. It was expensive, but I'm very satisfied with it so
> far. I'll see if I can't write a followup review once the darkness has
> fallen over our fair city.
>
> TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
> dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.
>
> [1] A side or bottom exit for the cable would have alleviated this
> problem.
> [2] Too Long Didn't Read
> [3] This was on a closed bike trail, so I think I scared him.
> [4] Shimano DH-3N71 - reputedly about 50% efficient
>
> --
> Dane Buson - sigd...@unixbigots.org
> The party adjourned to a hot tub, yes. Fully clothed, I might add.
> -- IBM employee, testifying in California State Supreme Court

Thank you very much for this review. I am planning to buy another
light to supplement my
1W LED in the next year...I've been looking at the DeNotte (sp?) line,
but like dynamos besides. (Dynamos, AA and D batteries are what I've
standardized on in my life and bicycling life, so the DeNotte use of
AA's is like a siren call to me.)

Pureheart
Aptos, CA

Date: 09 Sep 2007 04:12:06
From: Crescentius Vespasianus
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

> Thank you very much for this review. I am planning to buy another
> light to supplement my
> 1W LED in the next year...I've been looking at the DeNotte (sp?) line,
> but like dynamos besides. (Dynamos, AA and D batteries are what I've
> standardized on in my life and bicycling life, so the DeNotte use of
> AA's is like a siren call to me.)
>
> Pureheart
> Aptos, CA
---------------
I have a Dinotte, and the AA
rechargeble's are the way to go. I
tried Lithium AA's and they went dark
way to quick. Sometimes the bumping
will knock an AA loose, and you lose the
light, but I solved it easily by putting
a rubber band around the holder and the
bats, so they can't shake loose. The
only thing about the DiNotte light, is
that it is a flood, and the spot doesn't
go out very far. So you still need a
spot way out front. I'm planning on
getting a fenix L2d-ce flashlight, with
a twofish cyclopblock to hold it, to put
a spot way out there. Presently I use a
cateye el-500 to get a spot, but that
light is barely adequate in my opinion.

Date: 14 Sep 2007 03:09:09
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 13, 1:33 pm, Ace <see...@virgin.net > wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:15:29 -0700, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >Vehicle headlights use precise optics - except those vehicle
> >headlights that are cobbled together by small companies on the cheap.
> >Such companies just grab MR bulbs and put them in a housing.
> >Unfortunately, most rechargeable bike headlights seem to be made by
> >that sort of company.
>
> In practise though, as long as you point them in the right direction,
> the MR-11 type lights do actually put a lot of light onto the road
> where you want it without over-blinding oncoming traffic. They are, to
> be fair, predicated upon producing more light than they really need
> for this application, such that the 'wasted' light doesn't matter, but
> I've been using such things for years and been very happy with them.
>
> Particularly off-road, of course, but I appreciate that this is
> another matter.

Off-road, MR bulbs make sense. In the woods, you're often moving
slow, picking your path around obstacles, ducking branches, etc. A
wide fog of light is fine.

On-road, it's just inefficient. Yes, those same lamps work only
because they pump out enough lumens to waste. But why put up with
waste, when a simple front lens would make it unnecessary?

Cycling is all about efficiency. We don't run tires that weigh 2
pounds each, even though those could be puncture-proof, because they
would waste energy. We don't use motorcycle gage spokes, or solid
handlebars, or massive chains even if they would be bulletproof and
wear forever. We tend to use just the minimum to get the job done,
because we value efficiency.

Except for some cyclists with their light systems. We've had people
post here that they want as much light output as a motorcycle.
Why??? In truth, almost nobody _ever_ hits even 40 mph at night on a
bicycle. Why waste lumens, and lug extra battery mass, put up with
lower run times, and spend more battery money than necessary?

Very seriously, I understand that some people may not have the
electrical and mechanical skills to install a generator system. It is
slightly more complicated. And many people have a false idea of the
level of drag. (See http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html )
Those problems, real or imagined, might drive someone away from a
generator set.

What I don't understand is why battery systems use such primitive
optics. A generator headlamp, slightly modified to stand a more
powerful (i.e. hotter) bulb, would allow most rechargeable sets to
either be half their present mass, and somewhat less expensive, or
last twice as long.

Almost nothing else on a bike is designed as crudely as a typical
rechargeable headlamp. That's the truth.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 14 Sep 2007 13:31:12
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <1189739349.088871.201360@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>
>Very seriously, I understand that some people may not have the
>electrical and mechanical skills to install a generator system.

Since you don't have to do it yourself, that's really just the same
old "a decent generator set costs more than a battery set" argument.
Some people like building wheels. Some people will happily pay for
someone else to build them a wheel. Others won't. Which is fine so
long as no-one starts pretending that what works for them is the
One True Way and nothing else works.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 06:47:10
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:

> I have a Dinotte, and the AA rechargeble's are the way to go. I tried
> Lithium AA's and they went dark way to quick. Sometimes the bumping
> will knock an AA loose, and you lose the light, but I solved it easily
> by putting a rubber band around the holder and the bats, so they can't
> shake loose. The only thing about the DiNotte light, is that it is a
> flood, and the spot doesn't go out very far. So you still need a spot
> way out front. I'm planning on getting a fenix L2d-ce flashlight, with
> a twofish cyclopblock to hold it, to put a spot way out there.
> Presently I use a cateye el-500 to get a spot, but that light is barely
> adequate in my opinion.

It's great that Fenix is also selling the Twofish Cycloblock, for some
reason these have become very hard to find. No bike shops seem to carry
them anymore.

Also take a look at
"http://www.eliteled.com/products/accessory/flholder.html". This company
sells the Fenix flashlights, and their flashlight holder looks a little
better than the TwoFish method because it swivels.

Date: 10 Sep 2007 18:34:31
From: Luke
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 04:12:06 -0700, Crescentius Vespasianus
<jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:

>
>> Thank you very much for this review. I am planning to buy another
>> light to supplement my
>> 1W LED in the next year...I've been looking at the DeNotte (sp?) line,
>> but like dynamos besides. (Dynamos, AA and D batteries are what I've
>> standardized on in my life and bicycling life, so the DeNotte use of
>> AA's is like a siren call to me.)
>>
>> Pureheart
>> Aptos, CA
>---------------
>I have a Dinotte, and the AA
>rechargeble's are the way to go. I
>tried Lithium AA's and they went dark
>way to quick. Sometimes the bumping
>will knock an AA loose, and you lose the
>light, but I solved it easily by putting
>a rubber band around the holder and the
>bats, so they can't shake loose. The
>only thing about the DiNotte light, is
>that it is a flood, and the spot doesn't
>go out very far. So you still need a
>spot way out front. I'm planning on
>getting a fenix L2d-ce flashlight, with
>a twofish cyclopblock to hold it, to put
>a spot way out there. Presently I use a
>cateye el-500 to get a spot, but that
>light is barely adequate in my opinion.

Count me among those pleased with the Dinotte (Ultra 5).

A rubber band round the battery pack and connector is a workaround I
resort to as well. The only other modification to my Dinotte package
was replacing the less than waterproof battery case holder with a
neoprene (Topeak) multitool case that had been bouncing about my spare
parts bin. Although it also is not completely waterproof it affords
better protection during downpours than the stock item.

And the convenience of the AA batteries is a bonus. With NiMH AAs of
over 2500 milli-amp hours readily available the Dinotte Ultra 5 will
easily last 2+ hours on 'high' mode before automatically kicking into
energy saver mode.

Date: 11 Sep 2007 02:46:52
From: Crescentius Vespasianus
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

>
> Count me among those pleased with the Dinotte (Ultra 5).
>
> A rubber band round the battery pack and connector is a workaround I
> resort to as well. The only other modification to my Dinotte package
> was replacing the less than waterproof battery case holder with a
> neoprene (Topeak) multitool case that had been bouncing about my spare
> parts bin. Although it also is not completely waterproof it affords
> better protection during downpours than the stock item.
>
> And the convenience of the AA batteries is a bonus. With NiMH AAs of
> over 2500 milli-amp hours readily available the Dinotte Ultra 5 will
> easily last 2+ hours on 'high' mode before automatically kicking into
> energy saver mode.
---------------
I've never had mine in the rain. Is the
light waterproof? For the bat pack, a
less elegant solution is simply to
double rap the pack with a plastic bag
and rubber bands. But I always wondered
about the light, it's waterproofness. I
have done some all night rides, so a
recharging is out of the question, so
the AA setup of the DiNotte works
perfect for me. If it goes dim, just
either put some more Nimh bats in, or
carry some alkaline's with you.

Date: 11 Sep 2007 23:12:26
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <13eeh561k351o24@corp.supernews.com >,
Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:

> >
> > Count me among those pleased with the Dinotte (Ultra 5).
> >
> > A rubber band round the battery pack and connector is a workaround
> > I resort to as well. The only other modification to my Dinotte
> > package was replacing the less than waterproof battery case holder
> > with a neoprene (Topeak) multitool case that had been bouncing
> > about my spare parts bin. Although it also is not completely
> > waterproof it affords better protection during downpours than the
> > stock item.
> >
> > And the convenience of the AA batteries is a bonus. With NiMH AAs
> > of over 2500 milli-amp hours readily available the Dinotte Ultra 5
> > will easily last 2+ hours on 'high' mode before automatically
> > kicking into energy saver mode.
>
> ---------------
>
> I've never had mine in the rain. Is the light waterproof? For the
> bat pack, a less elegant solution is simply to double rap the pack
> with a plastic bag and rubber bands. But I always wondered about the
> light, it's waterproofness. I have done some all night rides, so a
> recharging is out of the question, so the AA setup of the DiNotte
> works perfect for me. If it goes dim, just either put some more Nimh
> bats in, or carry some alkaline's with you.

Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
generator system?

Date: 12 Sep 2007 10:18:18
From: Dave Larrington
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In news:timmcn-149CE9.23122611092007@news.iphouse.com,
Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

> Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> generator system?

Tch! You're just being silly, Tim. Surely /everybody/ knows that neither
LED lights nor dynamo systems are suitable for actually seeing where one is
going at night.
</thudding_irony >

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk >
uck Wa

Date: 12 Sep 2007 10:54:06
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc Dave Larrington <smert.spamionam@privacy.net > wrote:
> In news:timmcn-149CE9.23122611092007@news.iphouse.com,
> Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>
>> Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
>> batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
>> generator system?
>
> Tch! You're just being silly, Tim. Surely /everybody/ knows that neither
> LED lights nor dynamo systems are suitable for actually seeing where one is
> going at night.
> </thudding_irony>

Funny. That's not the opinion of the fellow who flipped me off last
night and yelled at me "Dim your lights asshole!". I didn't think it
was *that* bright, but evidently I was mistaken. I'll have to be much
more careful of other cyclists on the commute this winter than with my
old light.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"We don't care. We don't have to. We're the Phone Company."

Date: 12 Sep 2007 12:07:56
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Dane Buson wrote:

> Funny. That's not the opinion of the fellow who flipped me off last
> night and yelled at me "Dim your lights asshole!". I didn't think it
> was *that* bright, but evidently I was mistaken. I'll have to be much
> more careful of other cyclists on the commute this winter than with my
> old light.

Sounds like there's finally a decent dynamo light available. I see that
they make similar battery powered lights as well. What's particularly
good is the beam pattern with a center spot, combined with sufficient
beam spread out to the sides; a broad pattern is where most dynamo
lights fall short, but they have to concentrate their limited output in
a center spot.

The Fenix, mentioned earlier, with the 3W Cree LED has a similarly good
beam pattern for cycling. All that needs to be done is to hook up one or
two Fenix flashlights to a dynamo, via a buck/boost regulator.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 22:18:08
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46e838be$0$27158$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >, SMS wrote:
>
>The Fenix, mentioned earlier, with the 3W Cree LED has a similarly good
>beam pattern for cycling. All that needs to be done is to hook up one or
>two Fenix flashlights to a dynamo, via a buck/boost regulator.

Hub dynamos are essentially current limited devices, so a buck/boost
regulator is unnecessary, unless you need it to work with more unnecessary
regulation already in the flashlight. (Or you want the light to be regulated
when running off a battery pack on another bike, which I believe is possible
with the Solidlights 1203d.)

Date: 12 Sep 2007 12:53:22
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>
>> Funny. That's not the opinion of the fellow who flipped me off last
>> night and yelled at me "Dim your lights asshole!". I didn't think it
>> was *that* bright, but evidently I was mistaken. I'll have to be much
>> more careful of other cyclists on the commute this winter than with my
>> old light.
>
> Sounds like there's finally a decent dynamo light available. I see that
> they make similar battery powered lights as well. What's particularly
> good is the beam pattern with a center spot, combined with sufficient
> beam spread out to the sides; a broad pattern is where most dynamo
> lights fall short, but they have to concentrate their limited output in
> a center spot.

Actually, in some ways, it's too much of a good thing. It has some of
the same problems every battery light I've seen has. It beam is not
shaped as well as the dynamo headlights. The dynamo headlights really
do have better optics.

> The Fenix, mentioned earlier, with the 3W Cree LED has a similarly good
> beam pattern for cycling. All that needs to be done is to hook up one or
> two Fenix flashlights to a dynamo, via a buck/boost regulator.

The newer LEDs are really outstanding. I really wish the companies
would move a little faster getting them into bike products.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Ah well, back to the cutting edge on the
coal-face of e-commerce." -- Charlie Stross

Date: 12 Sep 2007 21:26:41
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <imslr4-jas.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org >,
Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu > wrote:

> In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> > Dane Buson wrote:
> >
> >> Funny. That's not the opinion of the fellow who flipped me off
> >> last night and yelled at me "Dim your lights asshole!". I didn't
> >> think it was *that* bright, but evidently I was mistaken. I'll
> >> have to be much more careful of other cyclists on the commute this
> >> winter than with my old light.
> >
> > Sounds like there's finally a decent dynamo light available. I see
> > that they make similar battery powered lights as well. What's
> > particularly good is the beam pattern with a center spot, combined
> > with sufficient beam spread out to the sides; a broad pattern is
> > where most dynamo lights fall short, but they have to concentrate
> > their limited output in
> > a center spot.
>
> Actually, in some ways, it's too much of a good thing. It has some
> of the same problems every battery light I've seen has. It beam is
> not shaped as well as the dynamo headlights. The dynamo headlights
> really do have better optics.
>
> > The Fenix, mentioned earlier, with the 3W Cree LED has a similarly
> > good beam pattern for cycling. All that needs to be done is to hook
> > up one or two Fenix flashlights to a dynamo, via a buck/boost
> > regulator.
>
> The newer LEDs are really outstanding. I really wish the companies
> would move a little faster getting them into bike products.

And develop a good lens/reflector system to maximize the utilization of
the light, as we already have with halogen bulbs.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 07:15:22
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <5kppe6F4veilU1@mid.individual.net >,
"Dave Larrington" <smert.spamionam@privacy.net > wrote:

> In news:timmcn-149CE9.23122611092007@news.iphouse.com, Tim McNamara
> <timmcn@bitstream.net> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>
> > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> > batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> > generator system?
>
> Tch! You're just being silly, Tim. Surely /everybody/ knows that
> neither LED lights nor dynamo systems are suitable for actually
> seeing where one is going at night. </thudding_irony>

Well, I have been known to be a bit silly at times.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 02:50:34
From: Luke
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <timmcn-149CE9.23122611092007@news.iphouse.com >, Tim
McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:

> In article <13eeh561k351o24@corp.supernews.com>,
> Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Count me among those pleased with the Dinotte (Ultra 5).
> > >
> > > A rubber band round the battery pack and connector is a workaround
> > > I resort to as well. The only other modification to my Dinotte
> > > package was replacing the less than waterproof battery case holder
> > > with a neoprene (Topeak) multitool case that had been bouncing
> > > about my spare parts bin. Although it also is not completely
> > > waterproof it affords better protection during downpours than the
> > > stock item.
> > >
> > > And the convenience of the AA batteries is a bonus. With NiMH AAs
> > > of over 2500 milli-amp hours readily available the Dinotte Ultra 5
> > > will easily last 2+ hours on 'high' mode before automatically
> > > kicking into energy saver mode.
> >
> > ---------------
> >
> > I've never had mine in the rain. Is the light waterproof? For the
> > bat pack, a less elegant solution is simply to double rap the pack
> > with a plastic bag and rubber bands. But I always wondered about the
> > light, it's waterproofness. I have done some all night rides, so a
> > recharging is out of the question, so the AA setup of the DiNotte
> > works perfect for me. If it goes dim, just either put some more Nimh
> > bats in, or carry some alkaline's with you.
>

I can't vouch that the Dinotte will survive complete submersion --
perhaps you can experiment in the kitchen sink and let us know ;-) But
it has performed perfectly in several *very heavy* deluges, and
numerous drizzly affairs.

> Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> generator system?

My regular nocturnal ramblings -- well, at least those that require
illumination -- are yet to commonly exceed the discharge span of the
Dinottes.

Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power --
5W/200 lumens -- at the Dinotte's price I'll gladly bear the occasional
extra burden of 4 AAs. I mean it's a payload smaller than a chocolate
bar, how much of a nuisance can it be?

Consider: a significant benefit of the Dinotte is that it can be
switched between my several bikes in less than 2 minutes - no
exaggeration; it's also relatively cheap, (on sale the Dinotte Ultra
5, complete with 4 NiMH AAs and charger, cost IIRC $120 @
westernbikeworks.com), lightweight, durable and waterproof (so far!).

Arguably the light is not for randonneuring or touring but I consider
it supreme for my needs.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 05:55:40
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Luke wrote:

> Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power --
> 5W/200 lumens -- at the Dinotte's price I'll gladly bear the occasional
> extra burden of 4 AAs. I mean it's a payload smaller than a chocolate
> bar, how much of a nuisance can it be?
>
> Consider: a significant benefit of the Dinotte is that it can be
> switched between my several bikes in less than 2 minutes - no
> exaggeration; it's also relatively cheap, (on sale the Dinotte Ultra
> 5, complete with 4 NiMH AAs and charger, cost IIRC $120 @
> westernbikeworks.com), lightweight, durable and waterproof (so far!).
>
> Arguably the light is not for randonneuring or touring but I consider
> it supreme for my needs.

It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
anyway.

There is one 12V/6W tire driven dynamo from Busch & Muller but it's
$300. Peter White's site states: "Only Busch & Muller makes a 12 volt
dynamo that meets the German StVZO requirements for safe and efficient
bicycle lighting system."

Maybe the company that makes the Joule hub dynamo for Dahon could be
convinced to do a 12 volt/6W version in more hub types at a reasonable
price. In Singapore, the Joule hub dynamo including an excellent Hella
light sells for $30 (but of course you have to rebuild your wheel).

Still you'd run into the problem that it's often desirable to be able to
move the lights from bicycle to bicycle.

For now, if you want a "safe and efficient bicycle lighting system"
that's reasonably priced you have to go the battery route.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 12:43:55
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
>
> For now, if you want a "safe and efficient bicycle lighting system"
> that's reasonably priced you have to go the battery route.

Funny, that's not the conclusion any of the rest of us actual dynamo
users is. Find me a battery light that gives ten hours of light on one
charge and we might be able to talk.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
clone, n:
1. An exact duplicate, as in "our product is a clone of their
product." 2. A shoddy, spurious copy, as in "their product
is a clone of our product."

Date: 12 Sep 2007 22:27:40
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <r4slr4-jas.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org >, Dane Buson wrote:
>users is. Find me a battery light that gives ten hours of light on one
>charge and we might be able to talk.

Solidlights 1103 on medium power (and a bit of high power) and second
battery pack. They sell a Y-cable for the second pack, so no swapping
over is needed: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/buy/40012-640.JPG
Adds up to more than a 1203d and dynamo hub though, for less light.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 14:42:22
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc Alan Braggins <armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk > wrote:
> In article <r4slr4-jas.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org>, Dane Buson wrote:
>>users is. Find me a battery light that gives ten hours of light on one
>>charge and we might be able to talk.
>
> Solidlights 1103 on medium power (and a bit of high power) and second
> battery pack. They sell a Y-cable for the second pack, so no swapping
> over is needed: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/buy/40012-640.JPG
> Adds up to more than a 1203d and dynamo hub though, for less light.

Yeah, I looked at that when I was drooling over the 1203d. I already
had a dynamo hub, so it becomes even less attractive at that point. I
didn't realize the runtime was that long. Cool.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
All phone calls are obscene.
-- Karen Elizabeth Gordon

Date: 12 Sep 2007 14:48:35
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46e7e17d$0$27207$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >, SMS wrote:
>
>It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>anyway.

Most if not all hub dynamos will put 12V across a 6W load.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 07:12:04
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Alan Braggins wrote:
> In article <46e7e17d$0$27207$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS wrote:
>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>> anyway.
>
> Most if not all hub dynamos will put 12V across a 6W load.

Right, but at what rpm for the hub, and speed for the bicycle? Maybe
it'd work great on a Brompton!

Date: 12 Sep 2007 18:08:12
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46e7f365$0$27182$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >, SMS wrote:
>Alan Braggins wrote:
>> In article <46e7e17d$0$27207$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS wrote:
>>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>>> anyway.
>>
>> Most if not all hub dynamos will put 12V across a 6W load.
>
>Right, but at what rpm for the hub, and speed for the bicycle? Maybe
>it'd work great on a Brompton!

Bromptons have narrower than usual hubs, so it would have to be be a
SON XS, which is specifically designed for the higher rpm of smaller
wheels at the same speed. But if you wanted unnecessarily higher output
at lower revs you could build a SON XS with spacers into a large wheel.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 19:32:33
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Alan Braggins wrote:

> Bromptons have narrower than usual hubs, so it would have to be be a
> SON XS, which is specifically designed for the higher rpm of smaller
> wheels at the same speed. But if you wanted unnecessarily higher output
> at lower revs you could build a SON XS with spacers into a large wheel.

All 'normal' SON hubs are available in a version for 20" wheels, and the
XS is available with a 100mm wide axle. Built in a large wheel the
dynamo's for 20" give less output/resistance at a given speed
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Date: 12 Sep 2007 18:24:07
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

"Alan Braggins" <armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk > wrote in message
news:slrnfeg77s.42r.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk...

> Bromptons have narrower than usual hubs, so it would have to be be a
> SON XS, which is specifically designed for the higher rpm of smaller
> wheels at the same speed. But if you wanted unnecessarily higher output
> at lower revs you could build a SON XS with spacers into a large wheel.

T'other way round - XS produces less per rpm than the ones designed for big
wheels.

cheers,
clive

Date: 12 Sep 2007 22:11:42
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <13eg8688t7i1s82@corp.supernews.com >, Clive George wrote:
>"Alan Braggins" <armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
>news:slrnfeg77s.42r.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>
>> Bromptons have narrower than usual hubs, so it would have to be be a
>> SON XS, which is specifically designed for the higher rpm of smaller
>> wheels at the same speed. But if you wanted unnecessarily higher output
>> at lower revs you could build a SON XS with spacers into a large wheel.
>
>T'other way round - XS produces less per rpm than the ones designed for big
>wheels.

So it is. Bother - strike that second bit, and use a non-XS in a small
wheel bike with wider hubs.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 15:20:02
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote in message
news:46e7f365$0$27182$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Alan Braggins wrote:
>> In article <46e7e17d$0$27207$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS wrote:
>>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>>> anyway.
>>
>> Most if not all hub dynamos will put 12V across a 6W load.
>
> Right, but at what rpm for the hub, and speed for the bicycle? Maybe it'd
> work great on a Brompton!

At 12mph plus. Slower than that, eg going uphill, and you don't need the
full 6W - 3W is entirely adequate. Heck, I regularly find 3W adequate at >
30mph on unlit roads...

clive

Date: 12 Sep 2007 15:11:10
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
> anyway.

Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
be sporting

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Date: 12 Sep 2007 11:01:34
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

M-gineering wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>> anyway.
>
> Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
> be sporting

Which would show you 12V/6W bottle dynamos. Sure the SON can be pushed
to that at higher speeds, but it's not practical for many users.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 10:01:46
From: David Damerell
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Quoting SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com >:
>M-gineering wrote:
>>Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
>>be sporting
>Which would show you 12V/6W bottle dynamos. Sure the SON can be pushed
>to that at higher speeds,

As can the Shimano and S-A models. As you have been told _many times
before_. This isn't forgetfulness; you're just lying.

And while 10mph is technically higher, it's not exactly high.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk > flcl?
Today is Potmos, September.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 21:24:28
From: Chris Gerhard
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:
> M-gineering wrote:
>> SMS wrote:
>>
>>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>>> anyway.
>>
>> Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
>> be sporting
>
> Which would show you 12V/6W bottle dynamos. Sure the SON can be pushed
> to that at higher speeds, but it's not practical for many users.

My son is wired for 12V and only when the speed drops below 10mph does
it fade, but then at that speed it is really not a problem.

--chris

Date: 12 Sep 2007 21:31:47
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <AeKdndIzyKSf1nXbnZ2dnUVZ8sCsnZ2d@bt.com >,
Chris Gerhard <nospam@thegerhards.com > wrote:

> SMS wrote:
> > M-gineering wrote:
> >> SMS wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've
> >>> found anyway.
> >>
> >> Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that
> >> wouldn't be sporting
> >
> > Which would show you 12V/6W bottle dynamos. Sure the SON can be
> > pushed to that at higher speeds, but it's not practical for many
> > users.
>
> My son is wired for 12V

Ehhh... his name doesn't happen to be "Fester," does it?

Date: 12 Sep 2007 12:44:41
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> M-gineering wrote:
>> SMS wrote:
>>
>>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>>> anyway.
>>
>> Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
>> be sporting
>
> Which would show you 12V/6W bottle dynamos. Sure the SON can be pushed
> to that at higher speeds, but it's not practical for many users.

Why not? The only time you need the very top of the watt range is going
downhill. Anyone can coast down a hill.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Here's something to think about: How come you never see a headline like
`Psychic Wins Lottery'?"
-- Jay Leno

Date: 12 Sep 2007 13:13:19
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Dane Buson wrote:

> Why not? The only time you need the very top of the watt range is going
> downhill. Anyone can coast down a hill.

Perhaps that true for you, but don't presume to speak to the vast
majority of transportatinoal cyclists in the U.S..

There are so many half-truths and downright untruths that are taken as
gospel by some dynamo advocates that I don't know where to start, but
your statement is as good a place as any.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 10:04:57
From: David Damerell
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Quoting SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com >:
>There are so many half-truths and downright untruths that are taken as
>gospel by some dynamo advocates that I don't know where to start, but
>your statement is as good a place as any.

We've had one downright untruth in this thread so far; "It's too bad there
are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet". That's completely untrue and you knew when
you wrote it it was completely untrue.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk > flcl?
Today is Potmos, September.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 08:55:13
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> Perhaps that true for you, but don't presume to speak to the vast
> majority of transportatinoal cyclists in the U.S..

> There are so many half-truths and downright untruths that are taken as
> gospel by some dynamo advocates that I don't know where to start, but
> your statement is as good a place as any.

BOOOOOOM!!

What was that?
Oh, just my ACME irony-o-meter blowing up with some degree of force...

Dynamo advocates are typically dynamo advocates because they use dynamos
and find they work very well, including in the situations you asure them
that they don't. They have nothing to gain by lying about them, and if
they are as "unsafe" as you make out then all they'll get is killed.
But it doesn't appear to be happening, so the evidence isn't really on
your side. You still seem to think that if you adopt a calm, reasonable
tone then you /must/ be right, but tone is not related to actual
content, and your content with respect to dynamo adequacy is "so many
half-truths and downright untruths". How do I know? Direct empirical
experience, along with direct empirical experience of one hell of a lot
of dynamo using transportational cyclists, who you seem happy to think
you can speak for.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 12 Sep 2007 22:13:18
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46e84811$0$27229$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >, SMS wrote:
>
>There are so many half-truths and downright untruths that are taken as
>gospel by some dynamo advocates that I don't know where to start, but
>your statement is as good a place as any.

Your editing seems to have left a spurious "dynamo" in there.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 13:46:48
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>
>> Why not? The only time you need the very top of the watt range is going
>> downhill. Anyone can coast down a hill.
>
> Perhaps that true for you, but don't presume to speak to the vast
> majority of transportatinoal cyclists in the U.S..

I didn't know there were people who can't coast down a hill (except
fixie riders). You learn something new every day.

> There are so many half-truths and downright untruths that are taken as
> gospel by some dynamo advocates that I don't know where to start, but
> your statement is as good a place as any.

Well, considering you didn't actually respond to my statement in any
meaningful way (other than saying 'nuuuh-uuhhh'), feel free to tell me
when you plan on starting.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
You know it's going to be a bad day when you want to put on the clothes
you wore home from the party and there aren't any.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 14:11:09
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Dane Buson wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Dane Buson wrote:
>>
>>> Why not? The only time you need the very top of the watt range is going
>>> downhill. Anyone can coast down a hill.
>> Perhaps that true for you, but don't presume to speak to the vast
>> majority of transportatinoal cyclists in the U.S..
>
> I didn't know there were people who can't coast down a hill (except
> fixie riders). You learn something new every day.

Typical. You of course are well aware of what part of your statement I
was referring to. Of course we all know that the world revolves around
you, so the fact that most transportational cyclists do need the "top of
the watt range" (assuming you meant the top of the lumens range, but I
don't expect you to understand the difference).

Date: 12 Sep 2007 16:21:19
From: David Horwitt
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>
> Typical. You of course are well aware of what part of your statement I
> was referring to. Of course we all know that the world revolves around
> you, so the fact that most transportational cyclists do need the "top of
> the watt range" (assuming you meant the top of the lumens range, but I
> don't expect you to understand the difference).

I don't understand your vehement, consistent denial of the fact that dynamo
lights solve a problem for a large set of trsnaportational cyclists (of which
I am one). I found that dealing with batteries was a pain in the neck, and that
a dynamo light provides adequate lighting for my needs (and, apparently, the
needs of many other thread contributors). It's always there, and I never have
to deal with it, and it helps get me home safely and efficiently in the dark.

Since you are fond of speaking for 'most transportational cyclists', I'll
add that I suspect 'most' dynamo-enlightened cyclists have used battery driven
lights, and found the dynamos more useful for their particular situation.

DH

Date: 13 Sep 2007 10:03:04
From: David Damerell
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Quoting David Horwitt <dboner@aogsquid.ucsd.edu >:
>I don't understand your vehement, consistent denial of the fact that dynamo
>lights solve a problem for a large set of trsnaportational cyclists (of which
>I am one).

SMS used to sell MR16-based battery systems and presumably is considering
starting doing so again.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk > flcl?
Today is Potmos, September.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 07:50:40
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting David Horwitt <dboner@aogsquid.ucsd.edu>:
>> I don't understand your vehement, consistent denial of the fact that dynamo
>> lights solve a problem for a large set of trsnaportational cyclists (of which
>> I am one).
>
> SMS used to sell MR16-based battery systems and presumably is considering
> starting doing so again.

I have never sold MR-16 based systems, nor do I have plans to.

In the 1980's I sold lead-acid systems with 14W sealed beams or 35W
non-sealed beams.

All these desperate lies. Do you guys stay up nights thinking up this crap?

Date: 13 Sep 2007 16:21:23
From: David Damerell
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Quoting SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com >:
>David Damerell wrote:
>>SMS used to sell MR16-based battery systems and presumably is considering
>>starting doing so again.
>I have never sold MR-16 based systems, nor do I have plans to.
>In the 1980's I sold lead-acid systems with 14W sealed beams or 35W
>non-sealed beams.

Mere words cannot convey the deep sorrow I feel at getting the precise
kind of battery system you're a shill for wrong. But - if it's been 20
years, maybe you can stop being a salesman now?

>All these desperate lies.

You mean like the desperate lie where you've never heard of a 6W hub
dynamo setup?
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk > flcl?
Today is Potmos, September.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 09:09:02
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>:
>> David Damerell wrote:
>>> SMS used to sell MR16-based battery systems and presumably is considering
>>> starting doing so again.
>> I have never sold MR-16 based systems, nor do I have plans to.
>> In the 1980's I sold lead-acid systems with 14W sealed beams or 35W
>> non-sealed beams.
>
> Mere words cannot convey the deep sorrow I feel at getting the precise
> kind of battery system you're a shill for wrong. But - if it's been 20
> years, maybe you can stop being a salesman now?
>
>> All these desperate lies.

The problem appears to be that you actually believed something that
Frank wrote. I didn't think anyone was that naive, but apparently I was
wrong.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 14:39:56
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> Dane Buson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why not? The only time you need the very top of the watt range is going
>>>> downhill. Anyone can coast down a hill.
>>> Perhaps that true for you, but don't presume to speak to the vast
>>> majority of transportatinoal cyclists in the U.S..
>>
>> I didn't know there were people who can't coast down a hill (except
>> fixie riders). You learn something new every day.
>
> Typical. You of course are well aware of what part of your statement I
> was referring to.

Mayhap I did, and mayhap I didn't. Your lack of clear writing is not my
fault, nor my problem.

> Of course we all know that the world revolves around you,

Oh noes! You've found me out!

> so the fact that most transportational cyclists do need the "top of
> the watt range" (assuming you meant the top of the lumens range, but I
> don't expect you to understand the difference).

A) There is a (admittedly) non-linear range between watts consumed and
lumens output for a light source. However when you are talking about the
*same* light source at different watts, it makes a lot of sense to talk
about it that way. Especially since I don't tend to have any kind of
light meter handy.

2) I don't pretend to be an expert on lighting.

iii) Most transportational cyclists are a *lot* slower than me. If
anything I need more light than most people. Also I do more night
riding than most US cyclists.

Fourth) Did you actually want to put forth some valid arguments, or are
you just going to continue to attack me instead of talking about the
data or arguments?

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Baseball has the great advantage over cricket of being sooner
ended." -George Bernard Shaw

Date: 12 Sep 2007 14:29:52
From: David Damerell
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Quoting SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com >:
>It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>anyway.

Liar. As you've been told several times before, many of the hub dynamos
already out there will do 12V/6W quite happily.
--
OPTIONS=name:Kirsty,menustyle:C,female,lit_corridor,standout,time,showexp,hilit
e_pet,catname:Akane,dogname:Ryoga,fruit:okonomiyaki,pickup_types:"!$?=/,scores:
5 top/2 around,color,boulder:0,autoquiver,autodig,disclose:yiyayvygyc,pickup_bu
rden:burdened,!cmdassist,msg_window:reversed,!sparkle,horsename:Rumiko,showrace

Date: 12 Sep 2007 14:18:46
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
> anyway.

If there is such a thing it's slipped past me too.

> Maybe the company that makes the Joule hub dynamo for Dahon could be
> convinced to do a 12 volt/6W version in more hub types at a reasonable
> price. In Singapore, the Joule hub dynamo including an excellent Hella
> light sells for $30 (but of course you have to rebuild your wheel).

The SON web site gives some pretty sound technical reasoning for it not
really being a viable thing, at least with current technology. If
Schmidt can't build what they see as a viable unit I doubt that anyone
else can, unless they're using some significantly lateral thinking on
how to go about it.

> Still you'd run into the problem that it's often desirable to be able to
> move the lights from bicycle to bicycle.
>
> For now, if you want a "safe and efficient bicycle lighting system"
> that's reasonably priced you have to go the battery route.

With the caveat of moving them about between bikes noted, the above
sentence is very much For Some Values Of "have to". I have a safe and
efficient bicycle lighting system using a 6V/3W dynohub. I think it was
reasonably priced. Sufficiently reasonable that I got another one for
another bike. My wife has a couple more. "Reasonable" is not an
absolute value, it depends on how much you've got, how much of it you're
willing to spend, and the exact way it meets your needs. Never having
the batteries go flat, carrying around lights but always having them if
I need them meets /my/ particular needs better than my old 10V
rechargeable battery system, which I could have kept using for the
/eminently/ reasonable cost of *nothing* (since I already had them), but
I still found it preferable to buy multiple dynohubs. Mileage varies
(unless you're Scharf, of course).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 12 Sep 2007 06:42:38
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch wrote:

>> For now, if you want a "safe and efficient bicycle lighting system"
>> that's reasonably priced you have to go the battery route.
>
> With the caveat of moving them about between bikes noted, the above
> sentence is very much For Some Values Of "have to".

I tend to agree with the statement on Peter White's web site "Only Busch
& Muller makes a 12 volt dynamo that meets the German StVZO requirements
for safe and efficient bicycle lighting system."

I guess it depends on whether you believe that the German requirements
are reasonable. In my extensive experience with German safety agencies,
Germany is very stringent about this sort of product, much more so than
agencies such as British Standards or the U.S. and Canadian agencies.
I've only worked with TUV, not the StVZO (Germany's traffic safety
department), but the thoroughness extends across agencies.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 21:30:27
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46e7ec80$0$27201$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:

> I tend to agree with the statement on Peter White's web site "Only
> Busch & Muller makes a 12 volt dynamo that meets the German StVZO
> requirements for safe and efficient bicycle lighting system."

Bully for you. I am sure that B&M will be delighted to hear it.
Unfortunately this is one of those statements that only sounds like it
means something.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 21:34:50
From: A R:nen
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > writes:

> I've only worked with TUV, not the StVZO (Germany's
> traffic safety department), but the thoroughness extends across
> agencies.

StVZO is the German Road Vehicles Act (or something to that effect,
not a literal translation), not an organization.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 16:15:30
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> I guess it depends on whether you believe that the German requirements
> are reasonable.

they are very detailed, but not well suited to current technology. And
they are not written as a minimum requirement only but do limit
lightoutput too. I can't see the point in worrying about them on the
other side of the globe!
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Date: 12 Sep 2007 14:49:05
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> I tend to agree with the statement on Peter White's web site "Only Busch
> & Muller makes a 12 volt dynamo that meets the German StVZO requirements
> for safe and efficient bicycle lighting system."

But is that "safe, efficient, and meets the standards, period", or
"safe, efficient, meets the standards *and* that happens to be a 12V
dynamo"? I think it's the latter. Plenty of non-12W systems are quite
safe, /and/ pass German standards.

> I guess it depends on whether you believe that the German requirements
> are reasonable. In my extensive experience with German safety agencies,
> Germany is very stringent about this sort of product, much more so than
> agencies such as British Standards or the U.S. and Canadian agencies.
> I've only worked with TUV, not the StVZO (Germany's traffic safety
> department), but the thoroughness extends across agencies.

So how come it's considered perfectly reasonable by the Germans to go
around with 6V dynamos, as practically all of their cycling population
do? Looks as though you've mis-read the statement above to fit your
preconceptions.

Why do I think a standard Schmidt SON is safe and efficient? Because I
never have any problems when I'm riding around with it running my lights
so I can see where I'm going. Still, when did direct empirical evidence
ever help anyone?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 12 Sep 2007 07:14:23
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <120920070250342985%lucasiragusa@rogers.com >,
Luke <lucasiragusa@rogers.com > wrote:

> In article <timmcn-149CE9.23122611092007@news.iphouse.com>, Tim
> McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> > batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> > generator system?
>
> My regular nocturnal ramblings -- well, at least those that require
> illumination -- are yet to commonly exceed the discharge span of the
> Dinottes.
>
> Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power --
> 5W/200 lumens --

This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need to be
repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and more is not
necessarily better. Most battery powered lights have suboptimal optics
for cycling, since the lamps they use are not designed for that
application (I can't speak for the DiNottes since I haven't seen one in
person); this isn't the case with decent generator lights such as the
B&M Lumotec lights or the BiSY or Schmidt E6. I'm also interested in
the Solidlight 1203D but there are no unfortunately photos of the beam
on their Web site. It'd be nice to not have to think about blowing out
bulbs (the one downside of generator systems using halogen bulbs- for me
anyway since I don't do mountain biking at night. Generator systems
don't work well for mountain biking because of the low speeds).

> at the Dinotte's price I'll gladly bear the occasional extra burden
> of 4 AAs. I mean it's a payload smaller than a chocolate bar, how
> much of a nuisance can it be?

As a randonneur it's a hassle I don't need. I enjoy riding dusk to dawn
but I don't want to have to keep stopping every two hours to fumble
about replacing batteries. In that scenario it's four to six sets of
batteries to swap out in order to get through the night.

I also like the reliability of a generator system. I don't have to make
sure I have fresh batteries (which create adverse environmental issues
in manufacture, transportation to the point of sale and disposal) or to
be certain to have recharged the batteries. I can spontaneously head
out the door, flip and switch and have light for as long as I need. If
I get accidentally caught out in the dark for one reason or another, I
have light again at the flip of a switch.

> Consider: a significant benefit of the Dinotte is that it can be
> switched between my several bikes in less than 2 minutes - no
> exaggeration; it's also relatively cheap, (on sale the Dinotte Ultra
> 5, complete with 4 NiMH AAs and charger, cost IIRC $120 @
> westernbikeworks.com), lightweight, durable and waterproof (so far!).

At the risk of it being on the wrong bike if you get caught out at night
when you weren't planning on it.

> Arguably the light is not for randonneuring or touring but I consider
> it supreme for my needs.

And that of course is the calculus.

Date: 20 Sep 2007 02:06:42
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 19, 3:39 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
>
> Yes, there are definitely a lot of sub-par lights in terms of quality of
> construction, though this spans both battery and dynamo lights.

I imagine it also includes homebrew units. ;-)

> It's
> rather ironic that the only place to buy dynamo lights in most parts of
> the U.S. is at drug stores and hardware stores, you'll almost never see
> them in a bicycle shop.

It is ironic. It comes mostly from the fact that most bicycles in the
US are used only as toys. Vehicles that are used for practical
transportation have headlights that are always ready to use, no
regular maintenance required. That includes no battery charging.
(Can you imagine having to do that for your car's headlights?)

> Of course these $10-20 toys are not going to
> work very well, i.e. "http://tinyurl.com/yvafzj".

Some of them do. I set up a commuting bike for a person who I knew
would never keep batteries charged or replaced. I put one of those
inexpensive generators on. The only upgrade it needed was a halogen
bulb to replace the stock vacuum bulb. It's lasted for, oh, about 8
years now, I think.

> Don't buy bicycle lights at a store where they sell aspirin or paint.
> Except of course in Japan, where the department stores sell an amazing
> variety of bicycle accessories.

I was in Austria recently, and found a wide selection of bike
generators available in a large car parts & bicycle parts store. And
yes, they sold paint as well. Given the prices and brand names of the
generators, I'm sure many of them were fine. Remember, this is a
country where people know and use these devices regularly, for their
transportation bikes.

(I really hate to disagree with almost everything SMS says. IOW, I
wish he were actually correct more often!)

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 12 Sep 2007 16:50:17
From: Luke
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <timmcn-9FF907.07142312092007@news.iphouse.com >, Tim
McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:

> This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need to be
> repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and more is not
> necessarily better. Most battery powered lights have suboptimal optics
> for cycling, since the lamps they use are not designed for that
> application (I can't speak for the DiNottes since I haven't seen one in
> person);

<snip >

This is just an open request. I used to have a link to a site
comprising night photos of the Dinotte's as well as other LED and IIRC
HID and Halogen light beam profiles. I remember the site was the work
of an enthusiast (not affliated with magazines) and the photos were
part of a comprehensive review of 4 or 5 battery powered lights. Does
anyone have a link to such a site?

Date: 12 Sep 2007 20:49:07
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <120920071650177832%lucasiragusa@rogers.com >,
Luke <lucasiragusa@rogers.com > wrote:

> In article <timmcn-9FF907.07142312092007@news.iphouse.com>, Tim
> McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need
> > to be repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and
> > more is not necessarily better. Most battery powered lights have
> > suboptimal optics for cycling, since the lamps they use are not
> > designed for that application (I can't speak for the DiNottes since
> > I haven't seen one in person);
>
> <snip>
>
> This is just an open request. I used to have a link to a site
> comprising night photos of the Dinotte's as well as other LED and
> IIRC HID and Halogen light beam profiles. I remember the site was the
> work of an enthusiast (not affliated with magazines) and the photos
> were part of a comprehensive review of 4 or 5 battery powered lights.
> Does anyone have a link to such a site?

I think I remember that site. It had two scrollable columns of photos
so that different lights could be compared side by side. It was a bit
outdated, last I saw it, but still interesting. There used to be a link
on Peter White Cycles' web pages, but I didn't see it in a quick
look-through. The pages have been updated since last I looked at this
site:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/lightingsystems.htm

Date: 12 Sep 2007 19:58:46
From:
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:49:07 -0500, Tim McNamara
<timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:

>In article <120920071650177832%lucasiragusa@rogers.com>,
> Luke <lucasiragusa@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <timmcn-9FF907.07142312092007@news.iphouse.com>, Tim
>> McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>>
>> > This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need
>> > to be repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and
>> > more is not necessarily better. Most battery powered lights have
>> > suboptimal optics for cycling, since the lamps they use are not
>> > designed for that application (I can't speak for the DiNottes since
>> > I haven't seen one in person);
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> This is just an open request. I used to have a link to a site
>> comprising night photos of the Dinotte's as well as other LED and
>> IIRC HID and Halogen light beam profiles. I remember the site was the
>> work of an enthusiast (not affliated with magazines) and the photos
>> were part of a comprehensive review of 4 or 5 battery powered lights.
>> Does anyone have a link to such a site?
>
>I think I remember that site. It had two scrollable columns of photos
>so that different lights could be compared side by side. It was a bit
>outdated, last I saw it, but still interesting. There used to be a link
>on Peter White Cycles' web pages, but I didn't see it in a quick
>look-through. The pages have been updated since last I looked at this
>site:
>
>http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/lightingsystems.htm

Dear Tim,

Possibly this site?

http://www.fa-technik.adfc.de/Komponenten/Scheinwerfer/vergleich.htm

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Date: 12 Sep 2007 12:32:53
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <120920070250342985%lucasiragusa@rogers.com>,
>
>> at the Dinotte's price I'll gladly bear the occasional extra burden
>> of 4 AAs. I mean it's a payload smaller than a chocolate bar, how
>> much of a nuisance can it be?
>
> As a randonneur it's a hassle I don't need. I enjoy riding dusk to dawn
> but I don't want to have to keep stopping every two hours to fumble
> about replacing batteries. In that scenario it's four to six sets of
> batteries to swap out in order to get through the night.

I have the same problems. I commute in darkness a lot, and I also do
night rides year round with friends. A battery light isn't even close
to tempting until it can last ten hours on a charge and is lighter,
cheaper and more convenient than the dynamo. I don't see that happening
in the next decade or two.

> At the risk of it being on the wrong bike if you get caught out at night
> when you weren't planning on it.

Eh. For myself, the majority of miles are on my commuter. The grocery
bike is only out at night in urban areas, so it just needs see-me lights
- which cheap LEDs do very well. The fixed gear is also usually a day
bike, or urban nights. I suppose I could swap the dynamo lighting
setup fairly easily to it. It would take more time to get the stupid
handlebar clamp moved than the wheel honestly.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
.NET is basically Bill Gates' snake-oil solution to all those registry/DLL hell
problems. Bill Gates is a true genius. He's made installing and maintaining
windows apps so ridiculously difficult and expensive that businesses and
consumers will actually buy into the idea of having their applications on
someone else's server. --Ukab the Great

Date: 12 Sep 2007 14:43:54
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <timmcn-9FF907.07142312092007@news.iphouse.com >, Tim McNamara wrote:
>>
>> Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power --
>> 5W/200 lumens --
>
>This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need to be
>repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and more is not
>necessarily better.

That's not the issue. You can get a 5W/200 lumens generator system, what
you can't easily get is one _at the same price as a comparable battery
system_ (and Luke did say "at the Dinotte's price"), at least so long as
you can usually use rechargeables in the battery system. The dynamo system
will be less hassle, but different people with different riding habits will
value that differently.

> I'm also interested in
>the Solidlight 1203D but there are no unfortunately photos of the beam
>on their Web site.

http://www.meiring.org.uk/pdm/Audax/SolidLights_Review.shtml has some
beam photos of the 1203D.

>> Consider: a significant benefit of the Dinotte is that it can be
>> switched between my several bikes in less than 2 minutes - no
>> exaggeration; it's also relatively cheap, (on sale the Dinotte Ultra
>> 5, complete with 4 NiMH AAs and charger, cost IIRC $120 @
>> westernbikeworks.com), lightweight, durable and waterproof (so far!).
>
>At the risk of it being on the wrong bike if you get caught out at night
>when you weren't planning on it.

A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put one
on all your bikes the cost goes up further.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 21:12:48
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <slrnfefr8q.uls.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk >,
armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:

> In article <timmcn-9FF907.07142312092007@news.iphouse.com>, Tim
> McNamara wrote:
> >>
> >> Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power
> >> -- 5W/200 lumens --
> >
> >This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need to
> >be repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and more
> >is not necessarily better.
>
> That's not the issue. You can get a 5W/200 lumens generator system,
> what you can't easily get is one _at the same price as a comparable
> battery system_ (and Luke did say "at the Dinotte's price"), at least
> so long as you can usually use rechargeables in the battery system.
> The dynamo system will be less hassle, but different people with
> different riding habits will value that differently.

As I said in reply to another post, that's the calculus.

> >I'm also interested in the Solidlight 1203D but there are no
> >unfortunately photos of the beam on their Web site.
>
> http://www.meiring.org.uk/pdm/Audax/SolidLights_Review.shtml has some
> beam photos of the 1203D.

Thanks! That's very useful.

> >> Consider: a significant benefit of the Dinotte is that it can be
> >> switched between my several bikes in less than 2 minutes - no
> >> exaggeration; it's also relatively cheap, (on sale the Dinotte
> >> Ultra 5, complete with 4 NiMH AAs and charger, cost IIRC $120 @
> >> westernbikeworks.com), lightweight, durable and waterproof (so
> >> far!).
> >
> >At the risk of it being on the wrong bike if you get caught out at
> >night when you weren't planning on it.
>
> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put
> one on all your bikes the cost goes up further.

It's easy to put a lamp on each bike and just swap the wheel (this of
course means a hub generator). That's been my solution. The one bike
with a different wheel size has its own generator which I happened to
get for free.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 09:59:57
From: David Damerell
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Quoting Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net >:
>armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
>>A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put
>>one on all your bikes the cost goes up further.
>It's easy to put a lamp on each bike and just swap the wheel

This is a lovely theory. One 700C bike. One 700C tandem with a big chunky
rim. One 16" bike. And now one 650B bike.

... still well worth a SON apiece, but...
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk > flcl?
Today is Potmos, September.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 08:18:05
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Date: 13 Sep 2007 10:16:53
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net>:
>> armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
>>> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put
>>> one on all your bikes the cost goes up further.
>> It's easy to put a lamp on each bike and just swap the wheel
>
> This is a lovely theory. One 700C bike. One 700C tandem with a big chunky
> rim. One 16" bike. And now one 650B bike.
>
> ... still well worth a SON apiece, but...

wot David says... Even if the wheels are the same then, no thanks!
Undoing, redoing the connectors is going to be a bigger and dirtier faff
than moving a light/battery designed for easy removal/replacement. I
just really wouldn't want to go there.

One should acknowledge that Scharf manages to stumble across a genuine
point from time to time!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 08:16:37
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Peter Clinch wrote:
> David Damerell wrote:
>> Quoting Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net>:
>>> armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
>>>> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put
>>>> one on all your bikes the cost goes up further.
>>> It's easy to put a lamp on each bike and just swap the wheel
>> This is a lovely theory. One 700C bike. One 700C tandem with a big chunky
>> rim. One 16" bike. And now one 650B bike.
>>
>> ... still well worth a SON apiece, but...
>
> wot David says... Even if the wheels are the same then, no thanks!
> Undoing, redoing the connectors is going to be a bigger and dirtier faff
> than moving a light/battery designed for easy removal/replacement. I
> just really wouldn't want to go there.
>
> One should acknowledge that Scharf manages to stumble across a genuine
> point from time to time!

Thanks...I think. While all bikes in a fleet are necessarily used at
night very often, I personally like to at least take along a Twofish
LockBlock and a powerful small flashlight in case I get caught out at
night unexpectedly. Earlier this year we did a 25 mile ride along a
local trail and taking too long for lunch we ended up out after dark. We
all had lights along in our packs, and it was an enjoyable night ride.
To put dynamo hubs on all those bikes would have been prohibitively
expensive.

What I'm dismayed (and somewhat amused) to see is all the
rationalizations that are constantly being put forth on this subject.
From stupid statements about only needing high illumination on
downhills (where your speed is fast enough for sufficient power from a
hub dynamo) to the incorrect statements about optics. I'm sure that in
reality none of the people making these statements are actually naive
enough to believe them, they just desperately thrash around looking for
any excuse. Meanwhile, the rest of the world moves on and tries to
promote night riding with technology that makes it safer.

For my Dahon folder, which I use extensively at night, I am planning to
purchase the wheel with the hub dynamo, and the excellent light that
Dahon is remarketing with a low wattage bulb suitable for dynamo use.
But it isn't going to cost $300!

Date: 14 Sep 2007 09:38:23
From: David Damerell
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Quoting SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com >:
>From stupid statements about only needing high illumination on
>downhills (where your speed is fast enough for sufficient power from a
>hub dynamo)

If you only hit 10-12mph on downhills, are you sure you don't have what we
call "roller skates"?
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk > Kill the tomato!
Today is Teleute, September.

Date: 14 Sep 2007 13:36:02
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <Vsi*FiPUr@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk >, David Damerell wrote:
>Quoting SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>:
>>From stupid statements about only needing high illumination on
>>downhills (where your speed is fast enough for sufficient power from a
>>hub dynamo)
>
>If you only hit 10-12mph on downhills, are you sure you don't have what we
>call "roller skates"?

Initial experiments with a DLumotec (LED) primary and Lumotec secondary
suggest that the primary will still give adequate light with an unswitched
secondary at a brisk walking speed. Not "high", but how much light do you
need at walking pace?

Date: 14 Sep 2007 14:36:34
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Alan Braggins wrote:
> In article <Vsi*FiPUr@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, David Damerell wrote:
>> Quoting SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>:
>> >From stupid statements about only needing high illumination on
>>> downhills (where your speed is fast enough for sufficient power from a
>>> hub dynamo)
>> If you only hit 10-12mph on downhills, are you sure you don't have what we
>> call "roller skates"?
>
> Initial experiments with a DLumotec (LED) primary and Lumotec secondary
> suggest that the primary will still give adequate light with an unswitched
> secondary at a brisk walking speed. Not "high", but how much light do you
> need at walking pace?

My house is by an unsurafced track on a hill and I far more usually go
up than down to leave, so with a heavy touring recumbent I tend not to
be tearing out of the place too fast. The track is unlit, and has a lot
of tree cover to keep out moonlight etc. I don't have any problem
seeing my way out with a single DLumtoec Oval and SON (or single halogen
basta/SON on the brom, or single halogen Lumotec and B&M 6V bottle on
the 8 Freight).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 16:38:59
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> Thanks...I think. While all bikes in a fleet are necessarily used at
> night very often, I personally like to at least take along a Twofish
> LockBlock and a powerful small flashlight in case I get caught out at
> night unexpectedly. Earlier this year we did a 25 mile ride along a
> local trail and taking too long for lunch we ended up out after dark. We
> all had lights along in our packs, and it was an enjoyable night ride.
> To put dynamo hubs on all those bikes would have been prohibitively
> expensive.

Compared to the cost of a serious bike the cost of a reasonable dynohub
like the Shimano 271 is really not very much.

> What I'm dismayed (and somewhat amused) to see is all the
> rationalizations that are constantly being put forth on this subject.

What dismays me is that you're too dumb to realise that however much you
say battery lights are much better the numerous real world examples of
folk who have found the contrary just will *not* work their way through.

How many times do I have to point out that I switched *from* the sort of
setup you advocate *to* a dynamo setup I /did not need to buy/, and have
subsequently bought more dynamo units as I find them superior for my
needs? Is that really a "rationalisation"? Sounds to me like you're
rationalising yourself.

> From stupid statements about only needing high illumination on downhills

Why is that stupid? What I find is that my dynamo hub system (which is
just running a single lamp) provides perfectly adequate illumination in
all instances for road use except very high speed downhills. I just
slow up a little to compensate, but that's the only time I encounter a
limit. So based on *real, actual experinece* it isn't stupid at all.

> I'm sure that in reality none
> of the people making these statements are actually naive enough to
> believe them, they just desperately thrash around looking for any
> excuse. Meanwhile, the rest of the world moves on and tries to promote
> night riding with technology that makes it safer.

But since I don't have any problems with my existing system, and have
indeed moved to it voluntarily and at considerable cost from the sort
you assure me is better and safer, quite why I need to be "safer", when
it involves lots of battery charging I don't want to do (which in turn
compromises safety by introducing more possibility of human error) is
lost on me, and on others too.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 13 Sep 2007 13:17:13
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <5ksdfuF557c7U1@mid.individual.net >, Peter Clinch wrote:
>David Damerell wrote:
>> Quoting Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net>:
>>> armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
>>>> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put
>>>> one on all your bikes the cost goes up further.
>>> It's easy to put a lamp on each bike and just swap the wheel
>>
>> This is a lovely theory. One 700C bike. One 700C tandem with a big chunky
>> rim. One 16" bike. And now one 650B bike.
>>
>> ... still well worth a SON apiece, but...
>
>wot David says... Even if the wheels are the same then, no thanks!
>Undoing, redoing the connectors is going to be a bigger and dirtier faff
>than moving a light/battery designed for easy removal/replacement. I
>just really wouldn't want to go there.

If you were making a habit of this, you could probably add connectors
that made it easier. But generally people with multiple bikes do have
them for different purposes, which does often mean different tyres and
wheels. (And even when one's a spare of the same type, "let's go to the
pub, you can borrow my spare bike - but I've only got one set of lights
between them", doesn't work too well, battery or dynamo.)

>One should acknowledge that Scharf manages to stumble across a genuine
>point from time to time!

Not necessarily. The "easier to swap" point might be genuine, but it came
from Luke <lucasiragusa@rogers.com >, not Scharf.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 19:43:25
From: Mike Sales
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

"Alan Braggins" wrote
(after quoting all these others)
>>>>> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put
>>>>> one on all your bikes the cost goes up further.
>>>> It's easy to put a lamp on each bike and just swap the wheel
>>>
>>> This is a lovely theory. One 700C bike. One 700C tandem with a big
>>> chunky
>>> rim. One 16" bike. And now one 650B bike.
>>>
>>> ... still well worth a SON apiece, but...
>>
>>wot David says... Even if the wheels are the same then, no thanks!
>>Undoing, redoing the connectors is going to be a bigger and dirtier faff
>>than moving a light/battery designed for easy removal/replacement. I
>>just really wouldn't want to go there.
>
> If you were making a habit of this, you could probably add connectors
> that made it easier. But generally people with multiple bikes do have
> them for different purposes, which does often mean different tyres and
> wheels. (And even when one's a spare of the same type, "let's go to the
> pub, you can borrow my spare bike - but I've only got one set of lights
> between them", doesn't work too well, battery or dynamo.)

But because the different bikes are for different purposes, the solution to
the dynamo or battery question varies from bike to bike. The folder is for
convenience, never goes far, though sometimes to the pub, so gets battery
lights.
The Sunday run bike obviously has no lights if possible, but long rides in
winter sometimes demand I swap over the folders lights. The commuter/tourer
which can get serious night use has a hub dynamo. And a rack and guards
etc.. I guess the others are the toys, but for transport use, I prefer the
reliability and convenience of a hub dynamo. As for illumination, I seldom
need to ride slower than daytime, and I used to ride in a hilly area with
steep dark and narrow roads.
Is anyone here old enough to remember Wonder battery lamps? They were the
alternative to the tin Evereadys. White plastic, unusual battery, not bad
clamp, French made, dim, unreliable. You lot don't know you've been born,
there is a wide choice of good lighting these days.

Mike Sales

Date: 13 Sep 2007 08:28:50
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <timmcn-975E08.21124812092007@news.iphouse.com >, Tim McNamara wrote:
> armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
>> In article <timmcn-9FF907.07142312092007@news.iphouse.com>, Tim
>> McNamara wrote:
>
>> >> Consider: a significant benefit of the Dinotte is that it can be
>> >> switched between my several bikes in less than 2 minutes
[...]
>> >At the risk of it being on the wrong bike if you get caught out at
>> >night when you weren't planning on it.
>>
>> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put
>> one on all your bikes the cost goes up further.
>
>It's easy to put a lamp on each bike and just swap the wheel (this of
>course means a hub generator). That's been my solution. The one bike
>with a different wheel size has its own generator which I happened to
>get for free.

If all your bikes have similar wheel sizes and tyres, that's still not
as convenient as swapping a typical handlebar mounted battery light
with spare mounts on the other bars. Though if you keep the oher bikes
without a front wheel, the chances of your riding off in daylight and
forgetting to fit a front wheel are lower than the chances of forgetting
to swap a light.....

Date: 12 Sep 2007 15:06:04
From: David Damerell
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Quoting Alan Braggins <armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk >:
>Tim McNamara wrote:
>>>Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power --
>>>5W/200 lumens --
>>This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need to be
>>repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and more is not
>>necessarily better.
>That's not the issue. You can get a 5W/200 lumens generator system, what
>you can't easily get is one _at the same price as a comparable battery
>system_ (and Luke did say "at the Dinotte's price"),

That's not quite what Tim is saying, though; what he's saying (which I
agree with) is if you don't mind abandoning the headline 5W figure you can
get just as many photons in useful places for the same price.
--
OPTIONS=name:Kirsty,menustyle:C,female,lit_corridor,standout,time,showexp,hilit
e_pet,catname:Akane,dogname:Ryoga,fruit:okonomiyaki,pickup_types:"!$?=/,scores:
5 top/2 around,color,boulder:0,autoquiver,autodig,disclose:yiyayvygyc,pickup_bu
rden:burdened,!cmdassist,msg_window:reversed,!sparkle,horsename:Rumiko,showrace

Date: 12 Sep 2007 07:10:40
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Alan Braggins wrote:

> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put one
> on all your bikes the cost goes up further.

For very long night rides, i.e. randonneuring, the expense of a good
dynamo system makes sense.

For commuting, you usually want a brighter, safer system, and it's easy
to get into the habit of charging your battery pack (or batteries) when
you get home.

The Cree LED flashlights look to be a very good choice for an
economical, bright bicycle light. They provide about 2.5x the
illumination of a halogen 3W lamp that is typically used with a dynamo
system.

As to the SolidLight, it looks like there is finally a very good
headlight for dynamo _or_ battery powered systems, though it's very
expensive.

Peter White's site states "The DH-3N70/71 hub can power either a single
headlight with a 3 watt bulb, or a 2.4 watt headlight and .6 watt
taillight combination." I presume that this is not correct if the
SolidLight has two LEDs, each drawing 3 watts.

While the SON hub can power two 3W lamps, you have to be going at least
10mph to have adequate light output.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 12:42:10
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> Alan Braggins wrote:
>
>> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put one
>> on all your bikes the cost goes up further.
>
> For very long night rides, i.e. randonneuring, the expense of a good
> dynamo system makes sense.

Or you know, anyone who actually rides their bike transportationally.
If you just ride when the it's bright and sunny out, they're totally
inappropriate.

> For commuting, you usually want a brighter, safer system, and it's easy
> to get into the habit of charging your battery pack (or batteries) when
> you get home.

Nonsense. Charging batteries sucks. The first thing I want to do when
I get home from work is shed my clothes, pull on some dry clean ones and
go spend time with my family. Fiddling with my lights and batteries
sucks.

No, it's not hard. But it's prone to failure (human error) and
annoying.

> The Cree LED flashlights look to be a very good choice for an
> economical, bright bicycle light. They provide about 2.5x the
> illumination of a halogen 3W lamp that is typically used with a dynamo
> system.
>
> As to the SolidLight, it looks like there is finally a very good
> headlight for dynamo _or_ battery powered systems, though it's very
> expensive.

Yup, I think that has more to do with the economies of scale than
anything else though. I think there were already very good dynamo
headlights available (though I know you are constitutionally incapable
of admitting that).

> Peter White's site states "The DH-3N70/71 hub can power either a single
> headlight with a 3 watt bulb, or a 2.4 watt headlight and .6 watt
> taillight combination." I presume that this is not correct if the
> SolidLight has two LEDs, each drawing 3 watts.

Yup, the Shimano hub can easily drive it up to 6 watts, as multiple
people have posted.

> While the SON hub can power two 3W lamps, you have to be going at least
> 10mph to have adequate light output.

So what? Do you need stadium quality lighting at 8 mph? MTBers do, I
don't. Is your commute across an MTB park or something?

Anyway, as I posted earlier, the lighting at 8 mph is outstanding on the
1203d. I had a chance to use it on a very dark area (Interlaken park
drive) and it was amazing how much it lit up.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"High explosives are often applicable
where truth and logic fail."

Date: 12 Sep 2007 18:02:50
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In article <46e7f311$0$27182$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >, SMS wrote:
>
>The Cree LED flashlights look to be a very good choice for an
>economical, bright bicycle light. They provide about 2.5x the
>illumination of a halogen 3W lamp that is typically used with a dynamo
>system.

That's because Cree LEDs are more efficient than 3W halogen bulbs,
nothing to do with whether they are powered by batteries or dynamos,
and ignores the fact that a typical dynamo light has a better beam
pattern for road use than a flashlight.

>Peter White's site states "The DH-3N70/71 hub can power either a single
>headlight with a 3 watt bulb, or a 2.4 watt headlight and .6 watt
>taillight combination." I presume that this is not correct if the
>SolidLight has two LEDs, each drawing 3 watts.

It's correct, but it's not the whole story, which is why Peter's site
goes on to explain secondary light setups.

>While the SON hub can power two 3W lamps, you have to be going at least
>10mph to have adequate light output.

With two unswitched non-LED based lights and no series capacitor
(like that in the E6z), maybe. Don't do that then.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 15:58:00
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

SMS wrote:

> For commuting, you usually want a brighter, safer system, and it's easy
> to get into the habit of charging your battery pack (or batteries) when
> you get home.

Well, you say "you", so i'll take that as "me". And I don't, actually.
I want something that doesn't require me to bugger about with charging
anything, ever, and is bright /enough/ for the job. I used to have a
brighter rechargeable 10W system and I gave it away because it turns out
I didn't "usually" want it.

> While the SON hub can power two 3W lamps, you have to be going at least
> 10mph to have adequate light output.

Well that's not really a problem, because below 10 mph you need damn all
light to be safe except in a "be seen" manner, and you'll get quite
enough for that.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 12 Sep 2007 15:32:14
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote in message
news:46e7f311$0$27182$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

> For very long night rides, i.e. randonneuring, the expense of a good
> dynamo system makes sense.
>
> For commuting, you usually want a brighter, safer system, and it's easy to
> get into the habit of charging your battery pack (or batteries) when you
> get home.

<snort > I've got a bright, safe system on a bike which gets commuting-type
use, and I don't need to charge it. Ever. Suits me very well.

> Peter White's site states "The DH-3N70/71 hub can power either a single
> headlight with a 3 watt bulb, or a 2.4 watt headlight and .6 watt
> taillight combination." I presume that this is not correct if the
> SolidLight has two LEDs, each drawing 3 watts.

The dynamos are designed to provice at a minimum 3W at 6 volts, as Peter
White's site says. However, as I believe he mentions (ooh yes - look, it's
even on the same page as the bit you quoted), they can produce higher power
too - they're essentially current-limited devices, not voltage-limited. Do
you understand the electrics stuff here, or do you need it explaining?

> While the SON hub can power two 3W lamps, you have to be going at least
> 10mph to have adequate light output.

German rules state adequte light output from 5.5 mph - you appear to have
selective vision wrt Peter White's site, as he says it there. The SON is
German, and legal over there, so it can provide that output.

The SolidLight only draws what power is available - so as you slow down your
light will dim from "more than adequate" to "adequate".

clive

Date: 09 Sep 2007 11:18:18
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
>
>> Thank you very much for this review. I am planning to buy another
>> light to supplement my
>> 1W LED in the next year...I've been looking at the DeNotte (sp?) line,
>> but like dynamos besides. (Dynamos, AA and D batteries are what I've
>> standardized on in my life and bicycling life, so the DeNotte use of
>> AA's is like a siren call to me.)
>>
>> Pureheart
>> Aptos, CA
> ---------------
> I have a Dinotte, and the AA rechargeble's are the way to go. I tried
> Lithium AA's and they went dark way to quick. Sometimes the bumping
> will knock an AA loose, and you lose the light, but I solved it easily
> by putting a rubber band around the holder and the bats, so they can't
> shake loose. The only thing about the DiNotte light, is that it is a
> flood, and the spot doesn't go out very far. So you still need a spot
> way out front. I'm planning on getting a fenix L2d-ce flashlight, with
> a twofish cyclopblock to hold it, to put a spot way out there.
> Presently I use a cateye el-500 to get a spot, but that light is barely
> adequate in my opinion.

Does the Fenix have an adjustable spot to flood lens like the Maglite?

Date: 11 Sep 2007 03:06:17
From: Crescentius Vespasianus
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

> Does the Fenix have an adjustable spot to flood lens like the Maglite?

Don't even mention a maglite in
comparison to a fenix. That's like
comparing a candle to the landing lights
of a 747.
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm

Date: 14 Sep 2007 07:25:14
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
>
>> Does the Fenix have an adjustable spot to flood lens like the Maglite?
>
> Don't even mention a maglite in comparison to a fenix. That's like
> comparing a candle to the landing lights of a 747.
> http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm

(Not sure if this got posted before, I didn't see it on my newsreader)

I went and picked up the L2DCE earlier tonight. It is an incredible
light. You're absolutely right about the comparison with a Mag-Lite LED
version being almost sac religious.

The pictures of it do not really give a good perspective of how small it
is. The guy from eLite was asking me if I was sure I wanted the bicycle
holders he sells
("http://www.eliteled.com/products/accessory/flholder.html") because the
Fenix diameter isn't wide enough for it to hold it. I bought it anyway,
as I can use a rubber spacer around the body of the flashlight. He was a
good guy, meeting me locally rather than insisting on shipping it the
mile from where he is located to my house.

The beam is very good for bicycling, with a strong spot beam but with
sufficient flood to illuminate to the sides.

I had been using a Streamlight Strion, and while slightly brighter in
spot mode than the Fenix (even though rated at only 116 lumens) it was
not as convenient as it used a proprietary Li-Ion battery, and the bulb
did not last all that long, only a few hundred hours.

I certainly can't see the advantage of the DiNotte over the Fenix L2D CE
which is rated at 135 Lumens at highest power (the L2D CE at mid power
is rated at 80 lumens). The DiNotte with the Luxeon 5W bulb is rated at
120 lumens. I know that DiNotte is using Cree LEDs in some new products,
but it apparently hasn't made it to their existing products.

I especially like the different available power levels and modes, as it
isn't necessary to use it at full power all the time.

The reviews I've read of the SolidLights indicate that they have optics
very much similar to what two Fenix lights would look like, a
symmetrical beam that doesn't have the issues that most lights designed
for dynamos have by necessity.

Date: 13 Sep 2007 23:54:20
From: SMS
Subject: Fenix L2DCE (was: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long))

Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
>
>> Does the Fenix have an adjustable spot to flood lens like the Maglite?
>
> Don't even mention a maglite in comparison to a fenix. That's like
> comparing a candle to the landing lights of a 747.
> http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm

I went and picked up the L2DCE earlier tonight. It is an incredible
light. You're absolutely right about the comparison with a Mag-Lite LED
version being almost sac religious.

The pictures of it do not really give a good perspective of how small it
is. The guy from eLite was asking me if I was sure I wanted the bicycle
holders he sells
("http://www.eliteled.com/products/accessory/flholder.html") because the
Fenix diameter isn't wide enough for it to hold it. I bought it anyway,
as I can use a rubber spacer around the body of the flashlight. He was a
good guy, meeting me locally rather than insisting on shipping it the
mile from where he is located to my house.

The beam is very good for bicycling, with a strong spot beam but with
sufficient flood to illuminate to the sides.

I had been using a Streamlight Strion, and while slightly brighter in
spot mode than the Fenix (even though rated at only 116 lumens) it was
not as convenient as it used a proprietary Li-Ion battery, and the bulb
did not last all that long, only a few hundred hours.

I certainly can't see the advantage of the DiNotte over the Fenix L2D CE
which is rated at 135 Lumens at highest power (the L2D CE at mid power
is rated at 80 lumens). The DiNotte with the Luxeon 5W bulb is rated at
120 lumens. I know that DiNotte is using Cree LEDs in some new products,
but it apparently hasn't made it to their existing products.

I especially like the different available power levels and modes, as it
isn't necessary to use it at full power all the time.

The reviews I've read of the SolidLights indicate that they have optics
very much similar to what two Fenix lights would look like, a
symmetrical beam that doesn't have the issues that most lights designed
for dynamos have by necessity.

Date: 12 Sep 2007 06:10:27
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Date: 08 Sep 2007 07:28:57
From: Zog The Undeniable
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

Dane Buson wrote:
> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> Cost: 155 GBP

> TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
> dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.

What does the gasket look like? I hear too many tales of light failure,
perishing gaskets and water ingress even on fairly new units to swap my
E6 for one at the moment.

Date: 10 Sep 2007 09:19:26
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc Zog The Undeniable <hrothgar19@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
>> Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
>> Cost: 155 GBP
>
>> TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
>> dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.
>
> What does the gasket look like? I hear too many tales of light failure,
> perishing gaskets and water ingress even on fairly new units to swap my
> E6 for one at the moment.

I'll see if I can't take a picture later. It's a gasket around the side
plate, and a gasket for each screw. I'm pretty much eminently
unqualified to judge it's efficacy, but it does look better sealed than
some other lights I've had that have succumbed to Seattle rains.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"France is the only country where the money falls apart and you
can't tear the toilet paper." -Billy Wilder

Date: 07 Sep 2007 21:49:29
From: Nate Knutson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

On Sep 7, 12:55 pm, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu > wrote:
> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> Found at:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> Cost: 155 GBP
>
> Note: TLDR summary at the bottom of article.
>
> For the last two years, I've been using a Lumotec Oval Plus and have
> been quite happy with it. Still, I can admit to a small amount of envy
> for my batteried brethren who spray the darkness indiscriminately with
> decawatts of light. On the other hand, no amount of shininess could
> compel me to use one again considering I often go on night time rides
> that last longer than five hours.
>
> While lurking in the uk.rec.cycling newsgroup I heard discussion of a
> company Solidlights that made LED dynamo headlights with dual LEDs.
> Dual 3 watt LEDs. Evidently the Audaxers and commuters who had stumped
> up the cash for it were delighted with it.
>
> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
> With one thing and another, I finally decided to jump in and buy it July
> 1st. A short week later it had been shipped across the pond to sunny
> Seattle and was sitting in my grubby hands.
>
> I first attempted to mount it on the fork. Previously with the Lumotec
> mounting there wasn't a problem, even with cantilever brakes.
> Unfortunately with the lower boxier shape of the 1203d, the front brake
> cable was rubbing the power cable and would have sawed through in time.
> [1] A *loooong* fork mount bracket and a spacer later I was happier with
> it.
>
> I went on a ride with some friends that night that lasted until after
> midnight. I was quite happy with the light, though the limited
> stretches of darkness (it was mostly urban riding except for a short
> stretch) forbade a really good test. One thing to note is that at low
> speeds (6-8 mph) it cast a *much* larger degree of light than my old
> lights.
>
> Oh, that mounting bracket? It broke the very next day. Damn potmetal.
> Currently the light is attached to a handlebar mounting bracket, and I
> haven't had any problems with it.
>
> I went on a longer ride with more stretches of real darkness, and this
> is where the light really shined. When I was catching up with a lead
> group, one of them commented that he thought I was a car coming from
> behind [3]. The light outperformed every battery headlight I have used
> previously (including a dual 6w / 12w halogen system). It was
> definitely not better than some of the 20-25W HID systems I've seen, but
> I was certainly carrying the brightest light of anyone there.
>
> Ease of use: It has a sealed button on the side. Press once to turn
> on, once more to change to blinking, once more to turn off. Dead
> simple.
>
> Quality of construction: It's a box. A nice sealed, gasketed, sturdy
> box. I have a feeling it will last quite a while, though it will win no
> awards for style. It has a locking style connector leading to the
> dynamo, very nice.
>
> Mounting: Available with a standard fork crown mounting or set up for a
> handlebar bracket.
>
> Drag: When it's in blink mode, the drag is unnoticeable. This makes it
> particularly attractive for cloudy days and see-me urban riding. The
> drag is barely perceptible when on, though I have no doubt it's there.
> Theoretically at max speed, I'm losing approximately 12 watts [4]. It's
> probably a touch more. On the other hand, I weigh 200 pounds, and I'm
> only losing those watts when I'm already near top speed. Smaller riders
> might not be so sanguine about that.
>
> Some impressions: This is definitely the product of a small engineering
> company. The serial number on my light is 000214, so they're not many
> out there. On the other hand, the dynamo lights are evidently an
> outgrowth of their battery lights IIRC, so it is a tested design.
>
> Conclusion: I love the light, and really look forward to using it for
> my winter commute. It was expensive, but I'm very satisfied with it so
> far. I'll see if I can't write a followup review once the darkness has
> fallen over our fair city.
>
> TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
> dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.
>
> [1] A side or bottom exit for the cable would have alleviated this
> problem.
> [2] Too Long Didn't Read
> [3] This was on a closed bike trail, so I think I scared him.
> [4] Shimano DH-3N71 - reputedly about 50% efficient
>
> --
> Dane Buson - sigd...@unixbigots.org
> The party adjourned to a hot tub, yes. Fully clothed, I might add.
> -- IBM employee, testifying in California State Supreme Court

sounds like a winner, and thanks for posting this.

it's kinda cool that they're simplifying things by making both schmidt
and shimano versions, but i see there's no shimano version with a rear
light output. could you just use the schmidt one for which there is a
rear output and use a shimano connector?
any idea how this compares directly to the other blingbling high
output setups like dual e6s or dual inoled 20+'s?

how much variance could there really be in drag between the different
lights? (i really have no idea about these kinds of generator
questions; i mostly just use the stuff.)

Date: 10 Sep 2007 09:17:50
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

In rec.bicycles.misc Nate Knutson <bikenate@riseup.net > wrote:
>
> sounds like a winner, and thanks for posting this.
>
> it's kinda cool that they're simplifying things by making both schmidt
> and shimano versions, but i see there's no shimano version with a rear
> light output. could you just use the schmidt one for which there is a
> rear output and use a shimano connector?

I haven't the foggiest idea for that one. I've gone with just using
blinkies for my rear, as I've never liked the idea of stringing another
wire the length of my frame.

> any idea how this compares directly to the other blingbling high
> output setups like dual e6s or dual inoled 20+'s?

Not reallly, other than looking at the specs. The Inoled 20+ has one 2
watt LED, versus the dual 3 watt LEDs in the 1203d. Just looking at the
beam patterns on Peter White's site, I'd say the 1203d beam is a touch
wider since it stacks the LEDs side by side.

> how much variance could there really be in drag between the different
> lights? (i really have no idea about these kinds of generator
> questions; i mostly just use the stuff.)

I'd say the 1203d probably has three times as much drag as the Inoled
20+. It's pretty linear as you ramp up.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
A novice was trying to fix a broken lisp machine by turning the
power off and on. Knight, seeing what the student was doing spoke sternly,
"You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding
of what is going wrong." Knight turned the machine off and on. The
machine worked.