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Main
Date: 11 May 2007 03:08:01
From: what does THIS button do?
Subject: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
She had a good enough time (she's still my girlfriend etc) but
remarked that she'd like to see something more than my rythmically
pumping muscular ass. Hard to believe but ... oh and she wants a
freehwheeling stoker.
So i stopped by one of my LBSs, The Bike Rack, and took a test ride on
the Hase Pimo <http://thebikerack.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=4839 >. Not
cheap. Very not cheap, but i found the craftsmanship/fab/engineering
to be really nice and enjoyed the couple miles i put on it.
Convincing my SO that it's worth ~$4600 post tax... well, that calls
for another kind of engineering, mostly social.
I'd like to hear honest opinions. Do you have one? Does a friend?
thumbs up or down. I'm guessing they should hold their value fairly
well?
Honestly, we'll probably end up with a $1500 conventionally configured
tandem, mostly because i'm not all that persuasive.
TIA, etc,
.max
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Date: 30 May 2007 14:33:20
From: Travis Prebble
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 11, 6:08 am, what does THIS button do? <betat...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> I'd like to hear honest opinions. Do you have one? Does a friend?
> thumbs up or down. I'm guessing they should hold their value fairly
> well?
My son has one, but since he's 5 years old, I guess "we" have one. We
got it specifically because he loves to pedal but has weak upper body
support due to cerebral palsy. The semi-recumbent approach was the
best way to go for him as I serve as captain and main power plant
while he gets his own set of freewheeled pedals in a seat that can be
modified to support his torso.
We've done about 200 miles on it now and have had no problems related
to the bike itself. The proximity of the captain to the stoker means
I can easily hear his verbal cues and read his body language, so
that's been great. We have fitted it with the child bracket to move
the cranks closer to the recumbent seat. We have also added on the
Hase heavy duty twin stand to provide stability while my son is
getting strapped in (chest harness, hip restraint, and foot restraints
to hold him to the pedals).
For our purposes, it is a definite thumbs up. We love to ride
together and do so at every opportunity. But we have a very specific
set of criteria that makes the Pino the natural choice for our
situation. For general riding, $4600 is a tough pill to swallow.
Somebody else mentioned the TW-Bent version at $1200. You could
definitely look at that for a lower priced alternative, though you'll
have to work out the lack of a freewheel yourself with that one.
Speaking of the freewheel, the stoker's freewheel allows the stoker to
stop pedaling at any time. The same is not true for the captain. The
caption must be pedaling in order for the stoker to pedal. This works
out well for me because it means I must be constantly spinning in
order for my son to enjoy pedaling, doing wonders for my cadence.
If you'd like to see some photos aside from the Hase marketing
materials, check out my Flickr site:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=hase%20pino&w=70194489%40N00
The Pino is by no means a bad purchase. You won't regret the quality
of the bike and the ability to talk with your stoker. But if the
price is a stumbling block, it's probably best not to force it unless
you feel like you're going to get $4600 worth of fun out of it.
-- Trav
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Date: 24 May 2007 18:38:43
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 24, 8:31 am, cat0020 aka TC in Philly wrote:
> What don't you get, Tom?
Apparently, context.
> According to your previous comment: "Comparing the bicycles I know to
> the people I know; in general, the bicycles have better
> personalities."
> The fact is, no bicycle have personality, they may reflect the
> personality of the rider, but that's about as far as I would
> consider.
I think it is whoosh!
> Another of your previous comment: "A true cyclist's concern is with
> the bicycle, not the rider."
> Any cyclist, good personality or bad, is less expendable in case of a
> "very bad crash" than any bicycle; when there is a choice, people
> would rather damage a bicycle to save themselves from any severe
> damage, if they have the time to think about the consequences,
> intended or not.
Well, people are selfish.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 24 May 2007 13:24:41
From: Prisoner at War
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 11, 6:08 am, what does THIS button do? <betat...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
> the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
> She had a good enough time (she's still my girlfriend etc) but
> remarked that she'd like to see something more than my rythmically
> pumping muscular ass. Hard to believe but ... oh and she wants a
> freehwheeling stoker.
>
> So i stopped by one of my LBSs, The Bike Rack, and took a test ride on
> the Hase Pimo <http://thebikerack.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=4839>. Not
> cheap. Very not cheap, but i found the craftsmanship/fab/engineering
> to be really nice and enjoyed the couple miles i put on it.
>
> Convincing my SO that it's worth ~$4600 post tax... well, that calls
> for another kind of engineering, mostly social.
>
> I'd like to hear honest opinions. Do you have one? Does a friend?
> thumbs up or down. I'm guessing they should hold their value fairly
> well?
>
> Honestly, we'll probably end up with a $1500 conventionally configured
> tandem, mostly because i'm not all that persuasive.
>
> TIA, etc,
>
> .max
I'd get it if I had the space to put it!
It's been reviewed a few times, by Tandem and Recumbent Rider and
VeloVision. There are also a few online reviews of various models (it
comes in aluminum, titanium, and can also be custom-tailored).
There was a cheaper US version made by some dude out of his workshop
but he's since gone out of business, unfortunately, so Hase is the
only game around for that unique and apparently quite comfy design.
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Date: 24 May 2007 06:31:46
From: cat0020
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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What don't you get, Tom?
According to your previous comment: "Comparing the bicycles I know to
the people I know; in general, the bicycles have better
personalities."
The fact is, no bicycle have personality, they may reflect the
personality of the rider, but that's about as far as I would
consider.
Another of your previous comment: "A true cyclist's concern is with
the bicycle, not the rider."
Any cyclist, good personality or bad, is less expendable in case of a
"very bad crash" than any bicycle; when there is a choice, people
would rather damage a bicycle to save themselves from any severe
damage, if they have the time to think about the consequences,
intended or not.
TC in Philly.
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Date: 24 May 2007 14:41:10
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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cat0020 wrote:
> Another of your previous comment: "A true cyclist's concern is with
> the bicycle, not the rider."
> Any cyclist, good personality or bad, is less expendable in case of a
> "very bad crash" than any bicycle;
Up to a point... I have seen pictures of George W. Bush on a bike, for
example, and I've seen some very nice bikes in my time... ;-/
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 23 May 2007 19:47:43
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 22, 9:42 pm, cat0020 wrote:
> On May 22, 9:19 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> > Comparing the bicycles I know to the people I know; in general, the
> > bicycles have better personalities.
>
> In case of a "very bad crash", I rather save the person with worse
> personality than the bicycle, then again, when does a bicycle have
> personality?
>
> TC in Philly.
Whoosh?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 26 May 2007 04:17:10
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1179974863.572259.315380@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On May 22, 9:42 pm, cat0020 wrote:
>> On May 22, 9:19 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>> > Comparing the bicycles I know to the people I know; in general, the
>> > bicycles have better personalities.
>>
>> In case of a "very bad crash", I rather save the person with worse
>> personality than the bicycle, then again, when does a bicycle have
>> personality?
>>
>> TC in Philly.
>
> Whoosh?
This is Tom Sherman speak. Hey, you don't know what it means? Welcome to the
club. I have been trying to figure out this idiot for many years now. But
take it from me, do not waste any time on him. It is a fool's errand and it
does not pay any dividends. All you will reap for your efforts is
self-disgust.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 22 May 2007 19:42:25
From: cat0020
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 22, 9:19 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
> Comparing the bicycles I know to the people I know; in general, the
> bicycles have better personalities.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
In case of a "very bad crash", I rather save the person with worse
personality than the bicycle, then again, when does a bicycle have
personality?
TC in Philly.
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Date: 22 May 2007 18:19:48
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
On May 22, 7:19 am, cat0020 wrote:
> On May 21, 9:45 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman bad crash"?
>
>
>
> > A true cyclist's concern is with the bicycle, not the rider. ;)
> > The referenced item is a "bicycle shaped object", not a bicycle!
>
> Please, true cyclist's concern of the ride, all bikes should be
> expendable, with enough money they can all be replaced. Besides, Would
> you rather have a new bike or new hip, knee or shoulder?
Comparing the bicycles I know to the people I know; in general, the
bicycles have better personalities.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 26 May 2007 04:10:43
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1179883188.166329.289440@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On May 22, 7:19 am, cat0020 wrote:
>> On May 21, 9:45 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman bad crash"?
>>
>>
>>
>> > A true cyclist's concern is with the bicycle, not the rider. ;)
>> > The referenced item is a "bicycle shaped object", not a bicycle!
>>
>> Please, true cyclist's concern of the ride, all bikes should be
>> expendable, with enough money they can all be replaced. Besides, Would
>> you rather have a new bike or new hip, knee or shoulder?
>
> Comparing the bicycles I know to the people I know; in general, the
> bicycles have better personalities.
Nonsensical of course, but Mr. Sherman strives to be witty at all costs.
Mr. Sherman is of Danish extraction and the Danes are not known for their
lightness. They are known for their dourness (like the Swedes) and for their
very weird since of humor. The one thing a Dane like Mr. Sherman should know
is to never attempt humor with anyone other than another Dane. We Irish
simply can't stand any of the Scandinavians. We do not know how they ever
got to be so dour. Lightness is not in their nature.
Fucking Danny Kaye anyone? No one who ever lived had a weirder sense of
humor. Well, maybe that other fucking idiotic Dane, the pianist-humorist who
liked to make fun of the great composers (I forget his fucking name).
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 26 May 2007 11:01:35
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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>
> Fucking Danny Kaye anyone? No one who ever lived had a weirder sense of
> humor. Well, maybe that other fucking idiotic Dane, the pianist-humorist
> who liked to make fun of the great composers (I forget his fucking name).
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
Eddy, Eddy, Eddy. Sometimes you come off like such a schmuck!
Danny Kaye, Danish? You wouldn't be talking about Danny Kaminsky who was
born in Brooklyn to Ukrainian immigrant parents? That Danny Kaye?
The other guy who is hiding within your dead brain cells was Victor Fucking
Borge, born Borge Fucking Rosenbaum.
Two more of my lantsman to fuck with what's left of your pathetic
anti-semitic brain.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 26 May 2007 17:07:08
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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"gotbent" <gotbents@spamtrap.com > wrote in message
news:46584d91$0$16335$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>> Fucking Danny Kaye anyone? No one who ever lived had a weirder sense of
>> humor. Well, maybe that other fucking idiotic Dane, the pianist-humorist
>> who liked to make fun of the great composers (I forget his fucking name).
>>
> Eddy, Eddy, Eddy. Sometimes you come off like such a schmuck!
>
> Danny Kaye, Danish? You wouldn't be talking about Danny Kaminsky who was
> born in Brooklyn to Ukrainian immigrant parents? That Danny Kaye?
I knew this would happen! Did not Danny Kaye make a movie about Hans
Christian Andersen? Do not tell me that that fool Andersen, most likely a
pedophile, was not a Dane!
> The other guy who is hiding within your dead brain cells was Victor
> Fucking Borge, born Borge Fucking Rosenbaum.
Yea, freaking Victor Borge who made his livelihood entertaining fools like
you. If he was a Jew, why did he not make his humor center on Jewish
foibles, instead of Danish foibles? Was he not known as the Great Dane?
Both Kaye and Borge thought it was smart to make idiotic nonsensical human
noises. I thought this might be a Danish national characteristic since Mr.
Sherman also likes to make nonsensical human noises ("whoosh").
> Two more of my lantsman [?] to fuck with what's left of your pathetic
> anti-semitic brain.
You are confusing me with Tom Sherman. He is your classic anti-Semite. He
wants the Palestinian Muslims to slaughter all the Jews in Israel. There are
even many American Jews who think Israel should not even exist. But I have
always maintained that the Jews are their own worst enemies despite the Tom
Shermans of this world. Some Jews are even so god damn stupid as to resist
the support of the Christian evangelicals. I mean, just how god damn stupid
can you get?
Hells Bells, I want Jews to be Jews, The only Jews I can't stand are the
secular variety who have forsaken their religion. Just how low can you sink?
A Jew without religion is an oxymoron. Only us Irish Catholics are allowed
to become atheists.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 22 May 2007 05:19:59
From: cat0020
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
On May 21, 9:45 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman bad crash"?
>
> A true cyclist's concern is with the bicycle, not the rider. ;)
> The referenced item is a "bicycle shaped object", not a bicycle!
>
Please, true cyclist's concern of the ride, all bikes should be
expendable, with enough money they can all be replaced. Besides, Would
you rather have a new bike or new hip, knee or shoulder?
TC in Philly.
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Date: 21 May 2007 18:45:59
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
On May 21, 6:34 am, cat0020 wrote:
> On May 20, 6:10 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> > A "very bad crash" is one that damages the bicycle beyond repair.
>
> So if a decent quality bike hit a pothole in the street, rider
> catapoles to a faceplant and need dental surgery but the bike only has
> a front flat, that's not a "very bad crash"?
A true cyclist's concern is with the bicycle, not the rider. ;)
> Same pothole claims another victim with cheap W-mart bike, front wheel
> tocos, fork bent, toptube bent but rider's fine is considered "very
> bad crash"?
The referenced item is a "bicycle shaped object", not a bicycle!
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 21 May 2007 04:34:19
From: cat0020
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
On May 20, 6:10 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> A "very bad crash" is one that damages the bicycle beyond repair.
So if a decent quality bike hit a pothole in the street, rider
catapoles to a faceplant and need dental surgery but the bike only has
a front flat, that's not a "very bad crash"?
Same pothole claims another victim with cheap W-mart bike, front wheel
tocos, fork bent, toptube bent but rider's fine is considered "very
bad crash"?
TC in Philly.
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Date: 21 May 2007 18:45:08
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
In article <1179747259.300805.281930@z24g2000prd.googlegroups.com >,
cat0020 <cat0020@gmail.com > wrote:
> On May 20, 6:10 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > A "very bad crash" is one that damages the bicycle beyond repair.
>
>
> So if a decent quality bike hit a pothole in the street, rider
> catapoles to a faceplant and need dental surgery but the bike only has
> a front flat, that's not a "very bad crash"?
>
> Same pothole claims another victim with cheap W-mart bike, front wheel
> tocos, fork bent, toptube bent but rider's fine is considered "very
> bad crash"?
>
> TC in Philly.
Well, I don't think I'd call either one good.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 20 May 2007 15:10:03
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
On May 20, 3:26 pm, "cat0020" wrote:
> On May 20, 3:39 am, Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> > I have witnessed several very bad crashes on these bikes. It is always the
> > gal up front who suffers the most. But hey, if you don't mind ambulances
> > racing to your accident, be my guest.
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> > aka
> > Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
> With all due respect Ed,
Just how much respect is due to Mr. Ed the Grate?
> ALL of the "very bad crashes" on any two
> wheeled vehicles I've seen ended up with someone hurt badly, or take a
> ride in ambulance; if a rider is unhurt, would it consider to be a
> "very bad crash"?...
A "very bad crash" is one that damages the bicycle beyond repair.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 26 May 2007 03:48:42
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1179699003.325563.92960@y18g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On May 20, 3:26 pm, "cat0020" wrote:
>> On May 20, 3:39 am, Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>> > I have witnessed several very bad crashes on these bikes. It is always
>> > the
>> > gal up front who suffers the most. But hey, if you don't mind
>> > ambulances
>> > racing to your accident, be my guest.
>>
>> > Regards,
>>
>> > Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>> > aka
>> > Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>>
>> With all due respect Ed,
>
> Just how much respect is due to Mr. Ed the Grate?
Do not prejudice those who are new to My Greatness. Let them discover it for
themselves. After all, who needs an old reprobate like you to tell anyone
anything!
>> ALL of the "very bad crashes" on any two
>> wheeled vehicles I've seen ended up with someone hurt badly, or take a
>> ride in ambulance; if a rider is unhurt, would it consider to be a
>> "very bad crash"?...
>
> A "very bad crash" is one that damages the bicycle beyond repair.
Here is an example of Mr. Sherman's wit for all to ponder. I have told him
at least a thousand times that he has no wit whatsoever, and that he should
confine himself to self parody like I do. But his ego cannot take any
depreciation. Mr. McNamara suffers from the same deficiency of personality.
Well, not all can be Great like I am.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 20 May 2007 13:26:04
From: cat0020
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
On May 20, 3:39 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net > wrote:
>
> I have witnessed several very bad crashes on these bikes. It is always the
> gal up front who suffers the most. But hey, if you don't mind ambulances
> racing to your accident, be my guest.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota- Hide quoted text -
With all due respect Ed, ALL of the "very bad crashes" on any two
wheeled vehicles I've seen ended up with someone hurt badly, or take a
ride in ambulance; if a rider is unhurt, would it consider to be a
"very bad crash"?
The important details that you leave out in these "several very bad
crashes" that you have seen would be needed in order to determine if
semi-recumbent designs are truly more dangerous. How did they happen?
Why did they happen? conditions of the road, riders or weather?
Heck, people think flying is unsafe but the truth is that a person is
more likely to get killed driving a car on roads than flying in a
passenger plane.
Chances favor the prepared mind.
Master your environment and you will survive just fine.
TC in Philly.
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Date: 26 May 2007 05:13:55
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
"cat0020" <cat0020@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1179692764.404178.233060@b40g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On May 20, 3:39 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>
>> I have witnessed several very bad crashes on these bikes. It is always
>> the
>> gal up front who suffers the most. But hey, if you don't mind ambulances
>> racing to your accident, be my guest.
>
> With all due respect Ed, ALL of the "very bad crashes" on any two
> wheeled vehicles I've seen ended up with someone hurt badly, or take a
> ride in ambulance; if a rider is unhurt, would it consider to be a
> "very bad crash"?
Folks, this is what as is known as parsing words. In literature classes it
is called deconstruction. It is what fools do when they do not have anything
to say.
I have seen all kinds of bike crashes over the years, and the worst crashes
I have ever seen were tandems. I am telling you that the very bad crashes I
have seen did in fact involve an ambulance and a trip to the emergency room.
Other very bad accidents may or may not involve this. Some folks just bleed
a lot and refuse to go to the emergency room. The fact is that cyclists are
some of the dumbest folks who have ever lived on this earth and do not have
the brains they were born with.
> The important details that you leave out in these "several very bad
> crashes" that you have seen would be needed in order to determine if
> semi-recumbent designs are truly more dangerous. How did they happen?
> Why did they happen? conditions of the road, riders or weather?
The accidents happen invariably on hills - going down them, not up them. All
tandems are dangerous because no two people are ever in perfect
synchronization. The damn things are unstable and uncontrollable because of
it, especially going down hills at very fast speeds. I always feel sorry for
the poor gal who is just doing this crazy nonsense to please her stupid
husband. There ought to be a law against tandems!
[...]
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 25 May 2007 22:58:19
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
"cat0020" <cat0020@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1179692764.404178.233060@b40g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On May 20, 3:39 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>
>> I have witnessed several very bad crashes on these bikes. It is always
>> the
>> gal up front who suffers the most. But hey, if you don't mind ambulances
>> racing to your accident, be my guest.
>
> With all due respect Ed, ALL of the "very bad crashes" on any two
> wheeled vehicles I've seen ended up with someone hurt badly, or take a
> ride in ambulance; if a rider is unhurt, would it consider to be a
> "very bad crash"?
A very bad crash in my book is one that needn't have happened in the first
place if one had been riding a more sensible type of bike.
> The important details that you leave out in these "several very bad
> crashes" that you have seen would be needed in order to determine if
> semi-recumbent designs are truly more dangerous. How did they happen?
> Why did they happen? conditions of the road, riders or weather?
Semi-recumbents are more dangerous than full recumbents, but all tandems are
much more dangerous than any single rider bike. Tandems are always having
"very bad crashes" and it is always the gal that is hurt the most.
> Heck, people think flying is unsafe but the truth is that a person is
> more likely to get killed driving a car on roads than flying in a
> passenger plane.
There is something wrong with that thought for sure. Any idiot knows that
being several thousand feet in the air is a thousand times more dangerous
than having both feet on the ground. Hey, birds got to fly and fish got to
swim, but we humans got to trod the earth. What is so difficult about this
to understand? Even riding a bike is a thousand times more dangerous than
walking. Evolution 101.
> Chances favor the prepared mind.
> Master your environment and you will survive just fine.
The above is said by every dead fool who ever lived.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 19 May 2007 09:23:29
From: cat0020
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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I purchased a TW-bent copy of teh Hase Pino from eBay, since I
couldn't afford the real Hase Pino at $4000 for experiment in riding a
tandem.
TW-bent Family tandem, does not have independent pedaling feature, no
fancy rear dropouts that incooperate pannier rack mounts, components
were decent enough for cherity rides... for under $1200 delievered to
my door, it was a pretty good deal.
My SO and I have ridden the tandem for approx. 80 miles since March,
got it up to approx. 36 mph on a good downhill. She doesn't have to
stare at the back of my head on the ride anymore, we both get full
view of scenery. I don't need to turn my head around to talk to her
and we don't have to shout to each other to talk
I really like the concept of a semi-recumbent tandem, if I save up
enough money, I would definately buy a Hase Pino.
TC in Philly.
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Date: 20 May 2007 02:39:20
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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"cat0020" <cat0020@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1179591809.145925.18430@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>I purchased a TW-bent copy of teh Hase Pino from eBay, since I
> couldn't afford the real Hase Pino at $4000 for experiment in riding a
> tandem.
> TW-bent Family tandem, does not have independent pedaling feature, no
> fancy rear dropouts that incooperate pannier rack mounts, components
> were decent enough for cherity rides... for under $1200 delievered to
> my door, it was a pretty good deal.
> My SO and I have ridden the tandem for approx. 80 miles since March,
> got it up to approx. 36 mph on a good downhill. She doesn't have to
> stare at the back of my head on the ride anymore, we both get full
> view of scenery. I don't need to turn my head around to talk to her
> and we don't have to shout to each other to talk
> I really like the concept of a semi-recumbent tandem, if I save up
> enough money, I would definately buy a Hase Pino.
>
> TC in Philly.
I have witnessed several very bad crashes on these bikes. It is always the
gal up front who suffers the most. But hey, if you don't mind ambulances
racing to your accident, be my guest.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 14 May 2007 18:08:31
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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Dane Buson wrote:
>
> I think the only thing I'm missing is a tandem left captain crank for the
> left sync chain. Of course, I don't have an eccentric[1], so now I have to
> figure out how I want to deal with tensioning it.
>
> [1] Is there any technical reason they couldn't have made eccentrics in
> the BMX BB sizes? It's only 2.7 mm different. Bah!
I've considered that question myself. Having looked inside a lot of
American BB shells of various vintages, and having had a good look at
a few different flavors of tandem eccentrics, I've come to believe
that many American shells can't handle it. Some of them have tube
ends protruding slightly into the bore, some (like the plentiful
Electro-Forged Schwinns) don't really have that much continuous
cylindrical surface inside, and others are simply made of material
that's too thin or too weak to withstand an expanding-wedge type
eccentric adjuster. Most of the well-made, eccentric-ready shells
I've seen were on BMX bikes made in the last 15 years-- which don't
have any practical use for another means of chain tensioning.
Tandem eccentric shells are just a touch larger in diameter, which
helps, but mainly they are all thick-walled, round, smooth inside, and
machined square to the tube axis. In the future, if parts
manufacturers want to breathe new life into the American shell by
standardizing it more comprehensively, they can choose to define the
standard (or an ancillary standard) in such a way that it is possible
to use an eccentric adjuster.
Chalo
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Date: 15 May 2007 13:59:49
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>>
>> I think the only thing I'm missing is a tandem left captain crank for the
>> left sync chain. Of course, I don't have an eccentric[1], so now I have to
>> figure out how I want to deal with tensioning it.
>>
>> [1] Is there any technical reason they couldn't have made eccentrics in
>> the BMX BB sizes? It's only 2.7 mm different. Bah!
>
> I've considered that question myself. Having looked inside a lot of
> American BB shells of various vintages, and having had a good look at
> a few different flavors of tandem eccentrics, I've come to believe
> that many American shells can't handle it. Some of them have tube
> ends protruding slightly into the bore, some (like the plentiful
> Electro-Forged Schwinns) don't really have that much continuous
> cylindrical surface inside, and others are simply made of material
> that's too thin or too weak to withstand an expanding-wedge type
> eccentric adjuster. Most of the well-made, eccentric-ready shells
> I've seen were on BMX bikes made in the last 15 years-- which don't
> have any practical use for another means of chain tensioning.
>
> Tandem eccentric shells are just a touch larger in diameter, which
> helps, but mainly they are all thick-walled, round, smooth inside, and
> machined square to the tube axis. In the future, if parts
> manufacturers want to breathe new life into the American shell by
> standardizing it more comprehensively, they can choose to define the
> standard (or an ancillary standard) in such a way that it is possible
> to use an eccentric adjuster.
Okay, that all makes sense then. It's still a touch frustrating, but it
does make sense admittedly.
I just rediscovered Sheldon's article about home built tandems. Now to
decide between ghost chainrings, 1/2 links, chainwheel muckery, or
pulleys or other hacks.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Gravity always wins."
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Date: 12 May 2007 21:38:44
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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gotbent wrote:
>
> I guess six or seven large for a couple of Kettweisels hooked up as a five
> wheel tandem would be out of the question?
Good God, is that what they cost? That sure makes a Schwinn Twinn
with cracked tires and a broken Bendix two-speed look a lot more
appealing.
Chalo
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Date: 26 May 2007 19:20:25
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 25, 7:16 am, F. Ogawa wrote:
> On May 24, 9:38 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> > I think it is whoosh!
>
> > Well, people are selfish.
>
> I agree with cat that bicycles have no personality, people value
> bicycles at their own accord.
> What Tom said does not make sense.
Nonsense!
> WTH is whoosh? how does whoosh fit into context?
New to Usenet?
> Whether people are selfish or not, has nothing to do with bicycles
> having personality.
A bicycle with no personality is morally superior to a selfish person.
> Do you have anything to contribute to the topic of this thread?
Actually, I did post something relevant to the original post earlier
on. Please pay attention.
> Have you got any experience with semi-bent tandems?
I did manage to temporarily convert a straight Green Gear DoubleDay
tandem into a semi-bent tandem while stoking (fortunately, a problem
that could be fixed in less than a minute with a hex key).
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 26 May 2007 22:34:29
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1180232425.343032.196900@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On May 25, 7:16 am, F. Ogawa wrote:
>> On May 24, 9:38 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>> > I think it is whoosh!
>>
>> > Well, people are selfish.
>>
>> I agree with cat that bicycles have no personality, people value
>> bicycles at their own accord.
>> What Tom said does not make sense.
>
> Nonsense!
>
>> WTH is whoosh? how does whoosh fit into context?
>
> New to Usenet?
>
>> Whether people are selfish or not, has nothing to do with bicycles
>> having personality.
>
> A bicycle with no personality is morally superior to a selfish person.
>
>> Do you have anything to contribute to the topic of this thread?
>
> Actually, I did post something relevant to the original post earlier
> on. Please pay attention.
>
>> Have you got any experience with semi-bent tandems?
>
> I did manage to temporarily convert a straight Green Gear DoubleDay
> tandem into a semi-bent tandem while stoking (fortunately, a problem
> that could be fixed in less than a minute with a hex key).
Here is an example of Tom Sherman failing to communicate with someone not
yet familiar with his eccentric ways. It is why you must always be solid and
stolid with those who are unfamiliar with you.
But why does Mr. Sherman make this very elementary mistake? It is because he
has become arrogant and callous. He should see his way to exit this
newsgroup since he does not want to accommodate those whose only demerit is
that they do not yet know the ways of this particular jackass. Unfortunately
for Mr. Sherman, I do know the ways of him and it is ever my delight to show
him up for what he is - an arrogant and conceited jackass.
I urge Mr. Sherman to become humble and modest like me. He should also
strive for chastity too and who knows - maybe someday he can become a Great
Saint like Me.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 25 May 2007 05:16:26
From:
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 24, 9:38 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
> I think it is whoosh!
>
>
> Well, people are selfish.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
I agree with cat that bicycles have no personality, people value
bicycles at their own accord.
What Tom said does not make sense.
WTH is whoosh? how does whoosh fit into context?
Whether people are selfish or not, has nothing to do with bicycles
having personality.
Do you have anything to contribute to the topic of this thread?
Have you got any experience with semi-bent tandems?
F. Ogawa
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Date: 25 May 2007 23:20:16
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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<vfr1vfr3@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1180095386.505720.93910@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 24, 9:38 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think it is whoosh!
>>
>>
>> Well, people are selfish.
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>
>
> I agree with cat that bicycles have no personality, people value
> bicycles at their own accord.
> What Tom said does not make sense.
> WTH is whoosh? how does whoosh fit into context?
> Whether people are selfish or not, has nothing to do with bicycles
> having personality.
> Do you have anything to contribute to the topic of this thread?
> Have you got any experience with semi-bent tandems?
>
> F. Ogawa
Leave this jackass Tom Sherman to me. I know how to handle him perfectly.
Believe you me, it takes a jackass to know a jackass. You are no doubt a
normal person and should therefore not soil yourself with the likes of
im - or me either for that matter. Leave us jackasses to ourselves!
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 25 May 2007 22:52:04
From: Zebee Johnstone
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 25 May 2007 05:16:26 -0700
vfr1vfr3@gmail.com <vfr1vfr3@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> I agree with cat that bicycles have no personality, people value
> bicycles at their own accord.
> What Tom said does not make sense.
> WTH is whoosh? how does whoosh fit into context?
Whoosh means "A joke went right by you"
Zebee
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Date: 24 May 2007 07:03:16
From: cat0020
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 24, 9:41 am, Peter Clinch <p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk > wrote:
>
> Up to a point... I have seen pictures of George W. Bush on a bike, for
> example, and I've seen some very nice bikes in my time... ;-/
>
Well, if GW dies in a bicycle crash, either the government would ban
all bicycles from the streets or this country would go to war against
all bicycle manufacturing nations for flooding the American market
with terrorist weapons.
TC in Philly.
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Date: 14 May 2007 10:09:08
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote:
> gotbent wrote:
>>
>> I guess six or seven large for a couple of Kettweisels hooked up as a five
>> wheel tandem would be out of the question?
>
> Good God, is that what they cost? That sure makes a Schwinn Twinn
> with cracked tires and a broken Bendix two-speed look a lot more
> appealing.
Aye. I just picked up a crappy old tandem that I'm working on making
into a nice kidback. Hence, part of my renewed interest in the American
BB stuff. It has one piece cranks, BMX headset, BMX fork, etc. The
most expensive thing on it will be the rear wheel. I'm planning on
building up another 48 spoke Gusset Jury 26" wheel for it.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
We use Linux for all our mission-critical applications. Having the source code
means that we are not held hostage by anyone's support department.
(Russell Nelson, President of Crynwr Software)
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Date: 14 May 2007 21:54:13
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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In article <kmhmh4-vt7.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org >,
Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu > wrote:
> Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:
> > gotbent wrote:
> >>
> >> I guess six or seven large for a couple of Kettweisels hooked up as a five
> >> wheel tandem would be out of the question?
> >
> > Good God, is that what they cost? That sure makes a Schwinn Twinn
> > with cracked tires and a broken Bendix two-speed look a lot more
> > appealing.
>
> Aye. I just picked up a crappy old tandem that I'm working on making
> into a nice kidback. Hence, part of my renewed interest in the American
> BB stuff. It has one piece cranks, BMX headset, BMX fork, etc. The
> most expensive thing on it will be the rear wheel. I'm planning on
> building up another 48 spoke Gusset Jury 26" wheel for it.
Don't forget that Euro converters for BMX BBs are really cheap. Chalo is
right about the sturdiness of heavy duty BMX stuff (and unless you're
trying to mount clipless pedals, there's not much wrong with Ashtabula
cranks either), but the Euro converter turns the BB into a boring old
ISO BB, with all that entails.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 26 May 2007 21:57:58
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
On May 26, 10:34 pm, Edward Dolan wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote in messagenews:1180232425.343032.196900@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On May 25, 7:16 am, F. Ogawa wrote:
> >> On May 24, 9:38 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> >> > I think it is whoosh!
>
> >> > Well, people are selfish.
>
> >> I agree with cat that bicycles have no personality, people value
> >> bicycles at their own accord.
> >> What Tom said does not make sense.
>
> > Nonsense!
>
> >> WTH is whoosh? how does whoosh fit into context?
>
> > New to Usenet?
>
> >> Whether people are selfish or not, has nothing to do with bicycles
> >> having personality.
>
> > A bicycle with no personality is morally superior to a selfish person.
>
> >> Do you have anything to contribute to the topic of this thread?
>
> > Actually, I did post something relevant to the original post earlier
> > on. Please pay attention.
>
> >> Have you got any experience with semi-bent tandems?
>
> > I did manage to temporarily convert a straight Green Gear DoubleDay
> > tandem into a semi-bent tandem while stoking (fortunately, a problem
> > that could be fixed in less than a minute with a hex key).
>
> Here is an example of Tom Sherman failing to communicate with someone not
> yet familiar with his eccentric ways. It is why you must always be solid and
> stolid with those who are unfamiliar with you....
Whoosh!
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
As you know, you have to go on a ride with the wheels you have.
They're not the wheels you might want or wish to have at a later time.
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Date: 14 May 2007 15:16:59
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
> Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Aye. I just picked up a crappy old tandem that I'm working on making
>> into a nice kidback. Hence, part of my renewed interest in the American
>> BB stuff. It has one piece cranks, BMX headset, BMX fork, etc. The
>> most expensive thing on it will be the rear wheel. I'm planning on
>> building up another 48 spoke Gusset Jury 26" wheel for it.
>
> Don't forget that Euro converters for BMX BBs are really cheap.
Yup, I just got a pair of them in the mail from Harris on Thursday. I
think the only thing I'm missing is a tandem left captain crank for the
left sync chain. Of course, I don't have an eccentric[1], so now I have to
figure out how I want to deal with tensioning it.
> Chalo is right about the sturdiness of heavy duty BMX stuff (and unless
> you're trying to mount clipless pedals, there's not much wrong with Ashtabula
> cranks either), but the Euro converter turns the BB into a boring old ISO BB,
> with all that entails.
Well, I'm swapping out the fork for one with cantilever mounts, which
thankfully just requires swapping in an ISO locknut. The caliper brakes
it came with are ... uninspiring. The rusty old shorter front seatpost
was replaced with a shiny 16" BMX cro-mo seatpost. I have a spare 26"
wheel, which will handily fit in the rear dropouts (which appear to be
in the region of 138 mm).
Now to finish up the front 26" wheel that I have laced but never got
around to tensioning and truing.
[1] Is there any technical reason they couldn't have made eccentrics in
the BMX BB sizes? It's only 2.7 mm different. Bah!
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
A recent study has found that concentrating on difficult off-screen
objects, such as the faces of loved ones, causes eye strain in computer
scientists. Researchers into the phenomenon cite the added concentration
needed to "make sense" of such unnatural three dimensional objects.
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Date: 16 May 2007 08:19:43
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
In article <rn3nh4-j6h.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org >,
Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
> > Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> Aye. I just picked up a crappy old tandem that I'm working on making
> >> into a nice kidback. Hence, part of my renewed interest in the American
> >> BB stuff. It has one piece cranks, BMX headset, BMX fork, etc. The
> >> most expensive thing on it will be the rear wheel. I'm planning on
> >> building up another 48 spoke Gusset Jury 26" wheel for it.
> >
> > Don't forget that Euro converters for BMX BBs are really cheap.
>
> Yup, I just got a pair of them in the mail from Harris on Thursday. I
> think the only thing I'm missing is a tandem left captain crank for the
> left sync chain. Of course, I don't have an eccentric[1], so now I have to
> figure out how I want to deal with tensioning it.
Heh. Thanks to weirdo BMX tricksters who like to grind on the right
side, left-hand-drive BMX components exist. Note this crank with an LHD
option:
http://www.danscomp.com/451110.php?cat=PARTS
And many more.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 16 May 2007 12:54:51
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
> Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I think the only thing I'm missing is a tandem left captain crank for the
>> left sync chain. Of course, I don't have an eccentric[1], so now I have to
>> figure out how I want to deal with tensioning it.
>
> Heh. Thanks to weirdo BMX tricksters who like to grind on the right side,
> left-hand-drive BMX components exist. Note this crank with an LHD option:
>
> http://www.danscomp.com/451110.php?cat=PARTS
Nify, I suspected such a thing might exist. It looks like it's cheaper
to buy the conventional tandem crank ($35) than the BMX alternative
though.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
It is against the grain of modern education to teach children to program.
What fun is there in making plans, acquiring discipline in organizing
thoughts, devoting attention to detail, and learning to be self-critical?
-- Alan Perlis
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Date: 13 May 2007 18:04:26
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
Chalo wrote:
> gotbent wrote:
>>
>> I guess six or seven large for a couple of Kettweisels hooked up as
>> a five wheel tandem would be out of the question?
>
> Good God, is that what they cost? That sure makes a Schwinn Twinn
> with cracked tires and a broken Bendix two-speed look a lot more
> appealing.
>
Yeah, for light use an old Schwinn Twinn's not bad. Rides sort of like an
Oldsmobile -- cushy ride with lots of inertia. Definitely the sort of thing
to buy if you are wondering if the two of you can stand being on the same
vehicle together. (in my case, my wife's answer was "no" -- I had to wait
until my daughters' legs got long enough with the seat all the way down and
pedal blocks to get use out of it). Better to find this out for $125 used!
But it's not very suitable for serious tandemists doing centuries or
multi-day trips.
--
Mike Kruger
An opinion should be the result of a thought, not a substitute for it.
[Jef Mallet]
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Date: 13 May 2007 11:37:09
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
"Chalo" <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1179031124.518265.260230@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> gotbent wrote:
>>
>> I guess six or seven large for a couple of Kettweisels hooked up as a
>> five
>> wheel tandem would be out of the question?
>
> Good God, is that what they cost? That sure makes a Schwinn Twinn
> with cracked tires and a broken Bendix two-speed look a lot more
> appealing.
>
> Chalo
>
I think a Kett is around $3k. Get them soon as the dollar continues to
backslide against the Euro.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 12 May 2007 21:30:00
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
Peter Clinch wrote:
>
> Not that I don't like the idea, but it's still the case that it
> will be less efficient: 5:2 in terms of rolling resistance
Not exactly. RR is not proportional to the number of tires, but
rather to the weight borne by the tires. Trikes scrub more than
bikes, and this will increase resistance when traveling in anything
other than a straight line. So the conjoined 'bent trikes will have
more RR because they are trikes, but not because they have more
tires.
Chalo
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Date: 12 May 2007 21:22:10
From: what does THIS button do?
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
On May 12, 8:08 am, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> <http://thebikerack.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=4839>
> A similar bike in a similar price range: <http://www.bilenky.com/
> viewpnt.html>.
I've seen a Viewpoint in action on the flats on RAGBRAI, and the
riders really seemed to like it. They were hauling ass, too! I know
my grilf would like the added flexibility of the independant
gearing.
Is there much difference in controllability or frame reliability
between the Pino and the Viewpoint?
I ask because I noticed Bilenky has a much more open geometry
quadrangle frame, with the stoker almost over the front axle compared
to the triangle-framed Hase, whose stoker sits a bit further behind
the front wheel. Not that i really expect i'd ever operate either
hard enough to reach a perfornance limit... Very similar bikes,
definitely different approaches to the problem.
thanks for the replies, all.
.max
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Date: 13 May 2007 09:36:08
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
|
In article <1179030130.715827.260940@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com >,
what does THIS button do? <betatron@gmail.com > wrote:
> On May 12, 8:08 am, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > <http://thebikerack.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=4839>
>
> > A similar bike in a similar price range: <http://www.bilenky.com/
> > viewpnt.html>.
>
>
> I've seen a Viewpoint in action on the flats on RAGBRAI, and the
> riders really seemed to like it. They were hauling ass, too! I know
> my grilf would like the added flexibility of the independant
> gearing.
A note on this point: da Vinci makes a line of conventional tandems with
"independent coasting" drivetrains. Not quite the same as separate
gearing.
http://www.davincitandems.com/
My lovely bride and I also own a tandem, but so far it has only seen
light duty. It is not as unusual as a Viewpoint, but still unusual:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/413380853/
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 12 May 2007 21:12:41
From: what does THIS button do?
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 11, 4:30 pm, "gotbent" <gotbe...@spamtrap.com > wrote:
> "what does THIS button do?" <betat...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1178878081.859213.296480@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
> > the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
> > TIA, etc,
>
> "Were you the couple that were following me on the trail between Batavia and
> Geneva?" asked the old fat guy on a Trice.
mmm... possibly?. We rode from Mill Race Cyclery in Geneva along the
east bank up to the prairie path junction in Elgin and back, taking
the west side of the river back to the Great Western and then across
to the east bank in St. Charles and back home.
Are you part of that bent gang i see on weekend mornings? I often see
a cluster of 3~8 bent riders heading south along the east side of the
Fox on (mostly) weekends when i'm riding home from my midnight shifts
at Flab. I always say hello en passant.
...
Ya, i forgot to mention in the original article, the reason we're
looking at tandems is because my grilf and i have fairly different
levels of bike-fu.
...
She offered a tepid objection regarding the price of a Hase (and by
extension the Bilenky), but she didn't say no, so that's a yes.
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Date: 13 May 2007 11:31:32
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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"what does THIS button do?" <betatron@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1179029561.551074.109320@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On May 11, 4:30 pm, "gotbent" <gotbe...@spamtrap.com> wrote:
>> "what does THIS button do?" <betat...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:1178878081.859213.296480@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> >I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
>> > the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
>> > TIA, etc,
>>
>> "Were you the couple that were following me on the trail between Batavia
>> and
>> Geneva?" asked the old fat guy on a Trice.
>
> mmm... possibly?. We rode from Mill Race Cyclery in Geneva along the
> east bank up to the prairie path junction in Elgin and back, taking
> the west side of the river back to the Great Western and then across
> to the east bank in St. Charles and back home.
>
> Are you part of that bent gang i see on weekend mornings? I often see
> a cluster of 3~8 bent riders heading south along the east side of the
> Fox on (mostly) weekends when i'm riding home from my midnight shifts
> at Flab. I always say hello en passant.
> ...
> Ya, i forgot to mention in the original article, the reason we're
> looking at tandems is because my grilf and i have fairly different
> levels of bike-fu.
> ...
> She offered a tepid objection regarding the price of a Hase (and by
> extension the Bilenky), but she didn't say no, so that's a yes.
>
>
Different couple then, as we were heading north towards ST Chas from the
Batavia end. I'm not part of the Sunday posse, but that might be the bunch
I rode with on Wed nights a few years ago. They would drive down from Elgin
and hook up at Fabyan Park. For a while they moved the meeting point more
towards Geneva, which pushed the ride to/ride from distance a bit beyond my
comfort envelope so I mostly ride solo now.
The nice thing about a pair of Hases is that if (heaven forbid) you ever
break up, you can uncouple the stoker and easily turn it back into a single,
ready for the next GF, or to sell.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 12 May 2007 06:08:27
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 11, 5:08 am, "what does THIS button do?" wrote:
> I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
> the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
> She had a good enough time (she's still my girlfriend etc) but
> remarked that she'd like to see something more than my rythmically
> pumping muscular ass. Hard to believe but ... oh and she wants a
> freehwheeling stoker.
>
> So i stopped by one of my LBSs, The Bike Rack, and took a test ride on
> the Hase Pimo <http://thebikerack.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=4839>. Not
> cheap. Very not cheap, but i found the craftsmanship/fab/engineering
> to be really nice and enjoyed the couple miles i put on it.
>
> Convincing my SO that it's worth ~$4600 post tax... well, that calls
> for another kind of engineering, mostly social.
A similar bike in a similar price range: <http://www.bilenky.com/
viewpnt.html >.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 12 May 2007 06:04:08
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 12, 4:24 am, Roos Eisma wrote:
> what does THIS button do? writes:
>
> >I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
> >the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
> >She had a good enough time (she's still my girlfriend etc) but
> >remarked that she'd like to see something more than my rythmically
> >pumping muscular ass. Hard to believe but ... oh and she wants a
> >freehwheeling stoker.
>
> Can you swap places so she gets the open view and you look at her ass?
Do Medical Physics IT Officers enjoy that view?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 12 May 2007 16:51:18
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> On May 12, 4:24 am, Roos Eisma wrote:
>> Can you swap places so she gets the open view and you look at her ass?
>
> Do Medical Physics IT Officers enjoy that view?
We haven't tried a conventional (or indeed any) tandem together as
yet, but since I'm the short one that's the way around we'd be
unless we got a custom build. At least in theory I don't mind... ;-)
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 12 May 2007 15:02:33
From: Roos Eisma
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > writes:
>On May 12, 4:24 am, Roos Eisma wrote:
>> what does THIS button do? writes:
>>
>> >I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
>> >the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
>> >She had a good enough time (she's still my girlfriend etc) but
>> >remarked that she'd like to see something more than my rythmically
>> >pumping muscular ass. Hard to believe but ... oh and she wants a
>> >freehwheeling stoker.
>>
>> Can you swap places so she gets the open view and you look at her ass?
>Do Medical Physics IT Officers enjoy that view?
Our attempts at sharing an open canoe and a double kayak strongly suggest
that a tandem bicycle may not work very well...
Roos
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Date: 12 May 2007 09:24:33
From: Roos Eisma
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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what does THIS button do? <betatron@gmail.com > writes:
>I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
>the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
>She had a good enough time (she's still my girlfriend etc) but
>remarked that she'd like to see something more than my rythmically
>pumping muscular ass. Hard to believe but ... oh and she wants a
>freehwheeling stoker.
Can you swap places so she gets the open view and you look at her ass?
Roos
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Date: 11 May 2007 21:59:04
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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On May 11, 4:30 pm, "gotbent" aka "The old fat guy on a Trice" wrote:
> "what does THIS button do?" wrote in messagenews:1178878081.859213.296480@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> > I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
> > the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
> > TIA, etc,
>
> > .max
>
> "Were you the couple that were following me on the trail between Batavia and
> Geneva?" asked the old fat guy on a Trice.
East or West Bank? (The east bank is smoother, but with more funky
turns).
Three (3) wheels are helpful when dealing with the "features" on the
trail.
> I guess six or seven large for a couple of Kettweisels hooked up as a five
> wheel tandem would be out of the question?
For that price, two-thirds of a Trice X2 Tandem [1] a Greenspeed GTT
[2], or the Organic Engines Troika [3] ( with a few thousand left
over) could be had. Making the turns on a long tandem trike to get on
the Quarry Park crossing could be a challenge, as would carrying it up
or down the steps to/from the Wilson Street crossing.
[1] <http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/custom_trikes/x2.htm >.
[2] <http://www.greenspeed.com.au/gtt.html >.
[3] <http://organicengines.com/products/troika-tandem/ >.
--
Tom Sherman - Formerly in Batavia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 12 May 2007 08:40:52
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1178945943.998385.120800@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On May 11, 4:30 pm, "gotbent" aka "The old fat guy on a Trice" wrote:
>
>> "what does THIS button do?" wrote in
>> messagenews:1178878081.859213.296480@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>> > I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
>> > the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
>> > TIA, etc,
>>
>> > .max
>>
>> "Were you the couple that were following me on the trail between Batavia
>> and
>> Geneva?" asked the old fat guy on a Trice.
>
> East or West Bank? (The east bank is smoother, but with more funky
> turns).
>
On this day it was the east bank. When we hooked up at the traffic signal on
Rt 25 at Wilson, one of the tandemists told me they were chasing at 22mph. I
was happy, but figured that their computer had a large calibration error.
> Three (3) wheels are helpful when dealing with the "features" on the
> trail.
>
Not just three wheels, but three wheels and a suspension make the "features"
manageable. Three wheels on a rigid trike like a Trice XL would be a brutal
experience.
>> I guess six or seven large for a couple of Kettweisels hooked up as a
>> five
>> wheel tandem would be out of the question?
>
> For that price, two-thirds of a Trice X2 Tandem [1] a Greenspeed GTT
> [2], or the Organic Engines Troika [3] ( with a few thousand left
> over) could be had. Making the turns on a long tandem trike to get on
> the Quarry Park crossing could be a challenge, as would carrying it up
> or down the steps to/from the Wilson Street crossing.
There is an alternate to the stairway to the crossing,is by using the bank
parking lot or street and then waiting for the longest red light in the
western hemisphere at RT25 and Wilson. I cannot figure out how a design
using some thirty or more steps could pass ADA requirements review for
access to public spaces. The cantilever walkway to the stairs is sometimes
under water when the Fox is at high water level. That bit of design work
looks like a cluster fuck perpetrated on the citizenry by well meaning but
highly inept bureaucrats.
The crossing at Island park is vastly improved, however. The approach
aprons to the bridges have been redone and the two suspension spans with the
extremely narrow and sharply angled ramps that have the added attraction of
a fall off the approach and go to a hospital E room feature have been
replaced by two nice steel truss spans and smooth asphalt ramps and nice
earth berming. I think the approaches may still be a challenge for a 12 or
15 foot long tandem trike.
gotbent, near Batavia and points south.
>
> [1] <http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/custom_trikes/x2.htm>.
> [2] <http://www.greenspeed.com.au/gtt.html>.
> [3] <http://organicengines.com/products/troika-tandem/>.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Formerly in Batavia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>
>
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 12 May 2007 04:37:14
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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what does THIS button do? wrote:
> I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
> the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
> She had a good enough time (she's still my girlfriend etc) but
> remarked that she'd like to see something more than my rythmically
> pumping muscular ass. Hard to believe but ... oh and she wants a
> freehwheeling stoker.
>
> So i stopped by one of my LBSs, The Bike Rack, and took a test ride on
> the Hase Pimo <http://thebikerack.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=4839>. Not
> cheap. Very not cheap, but i found the craftsmanship/fab/engineering
> to be really nice and enjoyed the couple miles i put on it.
>
> Convincing my SO that it's worth ~$4600 post tax... well, that calls
> for another kind of engineering, mostly social.
>
> I'd like to hear honest opinions. Do you have one? Does a friend?
> thumbs up or down. I'm guessing they should hold their value fairly
> well?
>
> Honestly, we'll probably end up with a $1500 conventionally configured
> tandem, mostly because i'm not all that persuasive.
>
Josh Putnam occasionally posts in here and has a few romantic stories
involving his current wife and a similar tandem, (a Bilenky Viewpoint
tandem, which has a similar design). http://www.bilenky.com/viewpnt.html
There's some pictures here
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikepics/bikepic.html
Note the Viewpoint allows the captain and stoker to pedal at different
cadences, which is why you see some of the illustrations with a handicapped
person as the stoker in front.
--
Mike Kruger
An opinion should be the result of a thought, not a substitute for it.
[Jef Mallet]
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Date: 11 May 2007 16:30:20
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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"what does THIS button do?" <betatron@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1178878081.859213.296480@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
> the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
> TIA, etc,
>
> .max
>
"Were you the couple that were following me on the trail between Batavia and
Geneva?" asked the old fat guy on a Trice.
I guess six or seven large for a couple of Kettweisels hooked up as a five
wheel tandem would be out of the question?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 11 May 2007 13:09:26
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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what does THIS button do? wrote:
> I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
> the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
> She had a good enough time (she's still my girlfriend etc) but
> remarked that she'd like to see something more than my rythmically
> pumping muscular ass. Hard to believe but ... oh and she wants a
> freehwheeling stoker.
>
I don't have any trike or tandem so I may not know what I'm talking
about, but that hasn't stopped me much before.
Is the point here to do hard training, or just to ride together?
For tandem use, I tend to like the idea of the trained recumbent delta
trikes best. Yes they're not fast, but that isn't the point of such riding.
Consider the advantages over a conventional tandem: each of you gets "a
trike" and adjusts it to fit yourselves, each of you gets your own
separate gears (and brakes), either can captain or stoke, and each trike
can still be used separately if desired. Your legs will still get a
workout but you won't need padded shorts, and there's no hand pressure
or neck pain. Each of you can pedal as much or as little as you want, as
long as /somebody's/ pedaling.
You'd want to test-ride them first of course; trikes can seem slow
(especially up hills) but then again,,, there's no need to /balance/ so
going up hills slower isn't that big of a drawback.
While some of the more expensive models like Kettweisels have the
connectors available, you might need to make them for cheaper trikes but
this isn't a major task. IIRC the Sun trikes go for as little as $850 or
so each.
~
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Date: 11 May 2007 20:47:44
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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DougC wrote:
> Consider the advantages over a conventional tandem: each of you gets "a
> trike" and adjusts it to fit yourselves, each of you gets your own
> separate gears (and brakes), either can captain or stoke, and each trike
> can still be used separately if desired. Your legs will still get a
> workout but you won't need padded shorts, and there's no hand pressure
> or neck pain. Each of you can pedal as much or as little as you want, as
> long as /somebody's/ pedaling.
Not that I don't like the idea, but it's still the case that it
will be less efficient: 5:2 in terms of rolling resistance and
quite a bit heavier, and total storage space at home considerably
greater than a Pino.
There's a Pino review in VeloVision 34 (the titanium one). IIRC
they were pretty impressed with it.
One advantage, ISTM, is stoker and captain should be moderately
interchangeable compared to many tandems.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 11 May 2007 18:38:48
From: DougC
Subject: The same ol' "tortise and hare" problem...
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Peter Clinch wrote:
>
> Not that I don't like the idea, but it's still the case that it will be
> less efficient: 5:2 in terms of rolling resistance and quite a bit
> heavier, and total storage space at home considerably greater than a Pino.
>
Yea but like I said--the efficiency is not the point here, riding with
someone of uneven abilities is.
If it was all about efficiency, the girlfriend would stay home and he'd
be riding with another guy matched to his fitness and abilities.
~
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Date: 12 May 2007 09:19:27
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: The same ol' "tortise and hare" problem...
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DougC wrote:
> Yea but like I said--the efficiency is not the point here, riding with
> someone of uneven abilities is.
>
> If it was all about efficiency, the girlfriend would stay home and he'd
> be riding with another guy matched to his fitness and abilities.
Not the whole point, but it can be /part/ of the point. You ride
tandem because you want to go on a nice tour together, and you can
account for more values of "nice tour" if you can go further for
the same effort. Round here, for example, your horizons for nice
day tours are greatly increased if you're happy to do over ~35
miles simply because of the way the geography is laid out.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 11 May 2007 10:49:47
From: mrbubl
Subject: Re: Semi-bent Hase Pino questions
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what does THIS button do? wrote:
> I recently successfully took my bestest girl out for a tandem ride up
> the Fox River Trail on a conventional tandem.
> She had a good enough time (she's still my girlfriend etc) but
> remarked that she'd like to see something more than my rythmically
> pumping muscular ass. Hard to believe but ... oh and she wants a
> freehwheeling stoker.
>
> So i stopped by one of my LBSs, The Bike Rack, and took a test ride on
> the Hase Pimo <http://thebikerack.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=4839>. Not
> cheap. Very not cheap, but i found the craftsmanship/fab/engineering
> to be really nice and enjoyed the couple miles i put on it.
>
> Convincing my SO that it's worth ~$4600 post tax... well, that calls
> for another kind of engineering, mostly social.
>
> I'd like to hear honest opinions. Do you have one? Does a friend?
> thumbs up or down. I'm guessing they should hold their value fairly
> well?
>
> Honestly, we'll probably end up with a $1500 conventionally configured
> tandem, mostly because i'm not all that persuasive.
>
>
> TIA, etc,
>
> .max
>
When we tried a standard tandem the big issue was for us was air flow,
the captain blocking the stoker. This design seems to address this
issue and solve it. TMMV
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