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Main
Date: 22 Jul 2007 16:39:01
From: DC1999
Subject: Signal Sorcerer
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I just purchased a thing named "Signal Sorcerer," a powerful but very
small magnetic strip that I've now attached to part of the lower frame
of my motorcycle. It is designed to actuate the signal at an
intersection where an inductive loop controls the lights. I'll let
you all know how it works. Then, if it works well, I plan to put
another one on my Bianchi road bike to do the same thing.
Dave Clark
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 20:48:09
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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On Jul 25, 1:30 pm, Kristian M Zoerhoff <kristian.zoerh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> It depends on the sensor. Areound here (NW Chicago 'burbs), lining up along
> the edge of a sensor (using the pavement cut as the guide) works every time.
Curious, what's the material of your frame and crank arms?
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 20:58:38
From: Kristian M Zoerhoff
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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On 2007-07-25, DanKMTB@gmail.com <DanKMTB@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 25, 1:30 pm, Kristian M Zoerhoff <kristian.zoerh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> It depends on the sensor. Areound here (NW Chicago 'burbs), lining up along
>> the edge of a sensor (using the pavement cut as the guide) works every time.
>
> Curious, what's the material of your frame and crank arms?
Good question. Trek 1000, so I assumed aluminum, but there must be something
ferrous lurking in there.
If I get some time, I'll begin Fogel-esque experiments tonight to determine
how much ferrous material there is, if any.
--
__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com
(_)/ (_)
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 23:22:49
From:
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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In article <2QOpi.20661$rL1.19099@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net >,
kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com says...
> On 2007-07-25, DanKMTB@gmail.com <DanKMTB@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 25, 1:30 pm, Kristian M Zoerhoff <kristian.zoerh...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> It depends on the sensor. Areound here (NW Chicago 'burbs), lining up along
> >> the edge of a sensor (using the pavement cut as the guide) works every time.
> >
> > Curious, what's the material of your frame and crank arms?
>
> Good question. Trek 1000, so I assumed aluminum, but there must be something
> ferrous lurking in there.
Only needs conductive material, not ferrous. The loop has an AC current
running through it, passing any conductor through the field alters the
current flow -- just like a metal detector that can find non-ferrous
coins or copper pipes inside your walls.
--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/ >
Updated Infrared Photography Gallery:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/photo/ir.html >
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 20:45:15
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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On Jul 25, 1:23 pm, Just A User <k...@up-yours-spammer.net > wrote:
> DanK...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jul 25, 12:07 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:39:01 -0700, DC1999 wrote:
> >>> I just purchased a thing named "Signal Sorcerer," a powerful but very
> >>> small magnetic strip that I've now attached to part of the lower frame
> >>> of my motorcycle. It is designed to actuate the signal at an
> >>> intersection where an inductive loop controls the lights. I'll let
> >>> you all know how it works. Then, if it works well, I plan to put
> >>> another one on my Bianchi road bike to do the same thing.
> >>> Dave Clark
> >> I've been wondering. Wouldn't it be simpler/cheaper to get a suitably
> >> powerful neodymium magnet and affix that somewhere to your frame?
>
> >> --
> >> Luigi de Guzmanhttp://ouij.livejournal.com
>
> > Would that actually work? I spent at least 5 minutes sitting at a
> > light on my motorcycle yesterday waiting for a light. Finally a car
> > came along, I moved over and waved them up, and the light tripped
> > instantly. It's really rather annoying after a couple minutes.
> > They tought us back in motorcycle school to put the kick stand down to
> > trip the sensor. Didn't do a thing for me yesterday.
>
> I just don't think there is enough metal mass in either a motorcycle or
> bicycle to trip those sensors.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
On my older bike, an 87 Ninja, there is a whole lot of steel. That
bike trips sensors without issue, though I have had to drop the
kickstand once or twice.
The bike I'm riding currently is newer, very custom and consists
mainly of (polished) aluminum with some hand-molded fiberglass
bodywork and some big ol' slicks. I don't know that there is much
steel at all on the entire bike, save for the gas tank and brackets/
hardware. If magnetism comes into play with the function of these
sensors, that could explain the mostly aluminum vehicles (bike or
motorcycle) having issues where the older steel counterparts have no
problems.
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 20:41:22
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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On Jul 25, 1:30 pm, Kristian M Zoerhoff <kristian.zoerh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On 2007-07-25, Just A User <k...@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I just don't think there is enough metal mass in either a motorcycle or
> > bicycle to trip those sensors.
>
> It depends on the sensor. Areound here (NW Chicago 'burbs), lining up along
> the edge of a sensor (using the pavement cut as the guide) works every time.
>
> What burns me are the new "electronic eye" sensors I'm seeing retrofitted
> into intersections; I can only trip them if I turn completely perpendicular
> to the device, which often means I have to ride circles until the light
> changes.
>
> --
>
> __o Kristian Zoerhoff
> _'\(,_ kristian.zoerh...@gmail.com
> (_)/ (_)
In the past I've been able to trip them by putting my kick stand down,
and/or being on that line in the pavement. The light I was stuck at
on the motorcycle yesterday is new (within the past couple years).
There is nothing visible on the pavement to tell me where I'd want to
line up. There is a visible humzinger on top of the light itself, but
I don't know for sure if that is the trigger/sensor.
In researching this briefly today after making my earlier post, I read
that most of them are based on magnetism detecting metal. One of the
fixes I read that seems to makes sense for a motorcycle is to shut the
bike down and restart it when you're at the light. Supposedly there
is enough electro-magnetic action in starting the bike to trip the
sensor. I have no idea if it will work, but next time I'm stuck at
that light I'll check.
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 23:25:35
From:
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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In article <1185396082.550710.67420@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
DanKMTB@gmail.com says...
> The light I was stuck at
> on the motorcycle yesterday is new (within the past couple years).
> There is nothing visible on the pavement to tell me where I'd want to
> line up.
There is a national standard marking that can be put over the most
sensitive part of a detector loop, very useful when the loop has been
hidden by resurfacing.
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/MUTCD_Detector_Markings.jpg
--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/ >
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html >
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 17:08:01
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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On Jul 25, 12:07 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:39:01 -0700, DC1999 wrote:
> > I just purchased a thing named "Signal Sorcerer," a powerful but very
> > small magnetic strip that I've now attached to part of the lower frame
> > of my motorcycle. It is designed to actuate the signal at an
> > intersection where an inductive loop controls the lights. I'll let
> > you all know how it works. Then, if it works well, I plan to put
> > another one on my Bianchi road bike to do the same thing.
>
> > Dave Clark
>
> I've been wondering. Wouldn't it be simpler/cheaper to get a suitably
> powerful neodymium magnet and affix that somewhere to your frame?
>
> --
> Luigi de Guzmanhttp://ouij.livejournal.com
Would that actually work? I spent at least 5 minutes sitting at a
light on my motorcycle yesterday waiting for a light. Finally a car
came along, I moved over and waved them up, and the light tripped
instantly. It's really rather annoying after a couple minutes.
They tought us back in motorcycle school to put the kick stand down to
trip the sensor. Didn't do a thing for me yesterday.
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 13:23:19
From: Just A User
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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DanKMTB@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 25, 12:07 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:39:01 -0700, DC1999 wrote:
>>> I just purchased a thing named "Signal Sorcerer," a powerful but very
>>> small magnetic strip that I've now attached to part of the lower frame
>>> of my motorcycle. It is designed to actuate the signal at an
>>> intersection where an inductive loop controls the lights. I'll let
>>> you all know how it works. Then, if it works well, I plan to put
>>> another one on my Bianchi road bike to do the same thing.
>>> Dave Clark
>> I've been wondering. Wouldn't it be simpler/cheaper to get a suitably
>> powerful neodymium magnet and affix that somewhere to your frame?
>>
>> --
>> Luigi de Guzmanhttp://ouij.livejournal.com
>
> Would that actually work? I spent at least 5 minutes sitting at a
> light on my motorcycle yesterday waiting for a light. Finally a car
> came along, I moved over and waved them up, and the light tripped
> instantly. It's really rather annoying after a couple minutes.
> They tought us back in motorcycle school to put the kick stand down to
> trip the sensor. Didn't do a thing for me yesterday.
>
I just don't think there is enough metal mass in either a motorcycle or
bicycle to trip those sensors.
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 23:19:49
From:
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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In article <5qOdnd2qQOaOGjrbnZ2dnUVZ_u7inZ2d@giganews.com >, ken@up-
yours-spammer.net says...
> I just don't think there is enough metal mass in either a motorcycle or
> bicycle to trip those sensors.
Properly adjusted, inductive loop detectors can be triggered with just
the front wheel of a bicycle held over the loop.
You don't need any magnetic material, the detectors work on *conductive*
material -- aluminum bicycle rims or a loop of copper wire will also
trip a signal.
If you have many defective signals in your area, it could be well worth
your time to contact the local roads department to see if they can be
adjusted. I'm in King County, Washington -- when I first contacted the
county about a defective signal near me, their response was that signal
loops can't detect bicycles. I sent them some references and they did a
bit of reasearch, and they have now begun adjusting sensor loops to
detect bicycles *and* marking the most sensitive part of the loop with
the MUTCD-standard bicycle-detector symbol.
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/SignalDetection.html has details on
these issues and references to standard pavement markings and signs for
bicycles at demand-actuated traffic signals.
--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/ >
Updated Infrared Photography Gallery:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/photo/ir.html >
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 17:30:45
From: Kristian M Zoerhoff
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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On 2007-07-25, Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net > wrote:
>
> I just don't think there is enough metal mass in either a motorcycle or
> bicycle to trip those sensors.
It depends on the sensor. Areound here (NW Chicago 'burbs), lining up along
the edge of a sensor (using the pavement cut as the guide) works every time.
What burns me are the new "electronic eye" sensors I'm seeing retrofitted
into intersections; I can only trip them if I turn completely perpendicular
to the device, which often means I have to ride circles until the light
changes.
--
__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com
(_)/ (_)
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 13:42:28
From: Just A User
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
> On 2007-07-25, Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>> I just don't think there is enough metal mass in either a motorcycle or
>> bicycle to trip those sensors.
>
> It depends on the sensor. Areound here (NW Chicago 'burbs), lining up along
> the edge of a sensor (using the pavement cut as the guide) works every time.
>
> What burns me are the new "electronic eye" sensors I'm seeing retrofitted
> into intersections; I can only trip them if I turn completely perpendicular
> to the device, which often means I have to ride circles until the light
> changes.
>
Well whatever happened to just the timed ones? They got phased out for
more "intelligent" systems I guess, but at least with those you knew
that eventually you would get your turn to go through the intersection.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 06:04:06
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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In article <lLydnWy3VL4MFjrbnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@giganews.com >,
Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net > wrote:
> Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
> > On 2007-07-25, Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
> >> I just don't think there is enough metal mass in either a motorcycle or
> >> bicycle to trip those sensors.
> >
> > It depends on the sensor. Areound here (NW Chicago 'burbs), lining up along
> > the edge of a sensor (using the pavement cut as the guide) works every time.
> >
> > What burns me are the new "electronic eye" sensors I'm seeing retrofitted
> > into intersections; I can only trip them if I turn completely perpendicular
> > to the device, which often means I have to ride circles until the light
> > changes.
> >
> Well whatever happened to just the timed ones? They got phased out for
> more "intelligent" systems I guess, but at least with those you knew
> that eventually you would get your turn to go through the intersection.
Basically, for intersections busy enough to deserve a light, a purely
timed setup wastes people's time.
The usual traffic engineering standards for induction loops normally
call for a bike to be detected. The left-turn loops tend to be the least
sensitive, because it's bad if they're triggered by a big vehicle in the
next lane over.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 08:46:24
From: Just A User
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <lLydnWy3VL4MFjrbnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>
>> Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
>>> On 2007-07-25, Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>>>> I just don't think there is enough metal mass in either a motorcycle or
>>>> bicycle to trip those sensors.
>>> It depends on the sensor. Areound here (NW Chicago 'burbs), lining up along
>>> the edge of a sensor (using the pavement cut as the guide) works every time.
>>>
>>> What burns me are the new "electronic eye" sensors I'm seeing retrofitted
>>> into intersections; I can only trip them if I turn completely perpendicular
>>> to the device, which often means I have to ride circles until the light
>>> changes.
>>>
>> Well whatever happened to just the timed ones? They got phased out for
>> more "intelligent" systems I guess, but at least with those you knew
>> that eventually you would get your turn to go through the intersection.
>
> Basically, for intersections busy enough to deserve a light, a purely
> timed setup wastes people's time.
>
> The usual traffic engineering standards for induction loops normally
> call for a bike to be detected. The left-turn loops tend to be the least
> sensitive, because it's bad if they're triggered by a big vehicle in the
> next lane over.
>
Well yeah the timer controlled one are a waste of time. But you didn't
have to worry about whether you triggered them or not. That was the only
thing they had back when I was growing up.
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 16:07:21
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Signal Sorcerer
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On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:39:01 -0700, DC1999 wrote:
> I just purchased a thing named "Signal Sorcerer," a powerful but very
> small magnetic strip that I've now attached to part of the lower frame
> of my motorcycle. It is designed to actuate the signal at an
> intersection where an inductive loop controls the lights. I'll let
> you all know how it works. Then, if it works well, I plan to put
> another one on my Bianchi road bike to do the same thing.
>
> Dave Clark
I've been wondering. Wouldn't it be simpler/cheaper to get a suitably
powerful neodymium magnet and affix that somewhere to your frame?
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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