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Main
Date: 29 Nov 2006 19:48:09
From: nash
Subject: Studded tires
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Anyone made a decent studded tire.
What did you use and how?
MEC's are $50 Not keen on spending that much for a few weeks of use.
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 09:47:03
From: John Kane
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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nash wrote:
> I was reading the link to nokian and schwalbe stud tires and it said that
> people seem to think having just the front studded is good enough. It also
> states why it is not. Keeping in mind they are biased but it made good
> sense too.
> I have seen a stud tires tool too if anyone is still into it but PNW does
> not really warrant it except for this freaky weather we just had.
I have not read the links but personal experience suggests that only
one studded tire sounds scarey. In really icy conditions you don't
want the back tire skidding out from under you which is likely to
happen as it did last December on the road bike. :( . Also you lose
drive power since you don't have the rear traction you need. You
really don't want the back wheel spinning out on you as you're ridding
along.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 19:55:46
From: nash
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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>
> nash wrote:
>> I was reading the link to nokian and schwalbe stud tires and it said that
>> people seem to think having just the front studded is good enough. It
>> also
>> states why it is not. Keeping in mind they are biased but it made good
>> sense too.
>> I have seen a stud tires tool too if anyone is still into it but PNW does
>> not really warrant it except for this freaky weather we just had.
>
> I have not read the links but personal experience suggests that only
> one studded tire sounds scarey. In really icy conditions you don't
> want the back tire skidding out from under you which is likely to
> happen as it did last December on the road bike. :( . Also you lose
> drive power since you don't have the rear traction you need. You
> really don't want the back wheel spinning out on you as you're ridding
> along.
>
>
> John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
You did not read the Nokian explanation then.
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 09:41:48
From: John Kane
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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Matt O'Toole wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 10:17:41 -0800, John Kane wrote:
>
> > I managed 5 years of use (4 months/ year commuting) on my first pair of
> > studded tires (Nokia) so over time you get your money's worth. The
> > original outlay hurt but you get some very nice quality too.
>
> I'm sure it's a lot cheaper than driving.
>
> Matt O.
Actually less than 2 months of bus passes or 2 weeks of driving.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 21:55:25
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 19:48:28 -0800, Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <sW%bh.407416$R63.278203@pd7urf1no>,
> "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> writes:
>> I was reading the link to nokian and schwalbe stud tires and it said that
>> people seem to think having just the front studded is good enough. It also
>> states why it is not.
>
> That's something I've casually wondered about, myself.
> Could a studded front + non-studded knobby rear be a
> workable compromise while saving $$$ that would otherwise
> be spent on a studded rear tire? I guess that depends on
> how rough and how firm the surface ice is.
>
My answer is no. Knobby or not, without studs that rear wheel will slip
on ice. You'll still go down, and you won't be able to go forward even if
you stay up.
--
David L. Johnson
__o
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 18:09:28
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu > wrote in message
news:qMydnXY0zbOwZO3YUSdV9g@ptd.net...
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 19:48:28 -0800, Tom Keats wrote:
>
>> In article <sW%bh.407416$R63.278203@pd7urf1no>,
>> "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> writes:
>>> I was reading the link to nokian and schwalbe stud tires and it said
>>> that
>>> people seem to think having just the front studded is good enough. It
>>> also
>>> states why it is not.
>>
>> That's something I've casually wondered about, myself.
>> Could a studded front + non-studded knobby rear be a
>> workable compromise while saving $$$ that would otherwise
>> be spent on a studded rear tire? I guess that depends on
>> how rough and how firm the surface ice is.
>>
> My answer is no. Knobby or not, without studs that rear wheel will slip
> on ice. You'll still go down, and you won't be able to go forward even if
> you stay up.
>
I've tried it both ways -- I used to have an extra wheel set for the studded
tires, but now I only have an extra front. The front stud is clearly more
important --for the same reason as it's better to have your "best" tire on
the front. If you lose traction on the back, you will go down right there.
If you lose traction on the front, you lose steering and may go anywhere.
Studded tires are also slower, for obvious reasons. So, for some, a front
studded tire might be a good compromise.
But let's put it this way -- I already own two studded tires, and I've ended
the experiment with one tire. Part of the problem is that riding with one
makes you think you can ride like you have two and that can mean you go down
MORE often.
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 19:58:48
From: nash
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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>>>> I was reading the link to nokian and schwalbe stud tires and it said
>>>> that
>>>> people seem to think having just the front studded is good enough. It
>>>> also
>>>> states why it is not.
>>>
>>> That's something I've casually wondered about, myself.
>>> Could a studded front + non-studded knobby rear be a
>>> workable compromise while saving $$$ that would otherwise
>>> be spent on a studded rear tire? I guess that depends on
>>> how rough and how firm the surface ice is.
>>>
>> My answer is no. Knobby or not, without studs that rear wheel will slip
>> on ice. You'll still go down, and you won't be able to go forward even
>> if
>> you stay up.
>>
> I've tried it both ways -- I used to have an extra wheel set for the
> studded tires, but now I only have an extra front. The front stud is
> clearly more important --for the same reason as it's better to have your
> "best" tire on the front. If you lose traction on the back, you will go
> down right there. If you lose traction on the front, you lose steering and
> may go anywhere. Studded tires are also slower, for obvious reasons. So,
> for some, a front studded tire might be a good compromise.
>
> But let's put it this way -- I already own two studded tires, and I've
> ended the experiment with one tire. Part of the problem is that riding
> with one makes you think you can ride like you have two and that can mean
> you go down MORE often.
1.A front studded will not get you out of ruts. That is the main reason.
And that front slippage is more dangerous as you said.
2. I saw tires made for just getting out those ruts. Screw spacing more to
the outside. 106 works as good as 160 in the right place and is lighter.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 19:48:28
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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In article <sW%bh.407416$R63.278203@pd7urf1no >,
"nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net > writes:
> I was reading the link to nokian and schwalbe stud tires and it said that
> people seem to think having just the front studded is good enough. It also
> states why it is not.
That's something I've casually wondered about, myself.
Could a studded front + non-studded knobby rear be a
workable compromise while saving $$$ that would otherwise
be spent on a studded rear tire? I guess that depends on
how rough and how firm the surface ice is.
> Keeping in mind they are biased but it made good
> sense too.
> I have seen a stud tires tool too if anyone is still into it but PNW does
> not really warrant it except for this freaky weather we just had.
Personally I'm not terribly compelled to buy studded tires.
Not only are icy conditions fairly infrequent here, but
after the initial dump of snow and the municipalities'
snow-clearing/salting efforts, I don't think there's enough
hardpacked ice on which to make optimal use of studded tires.
Lots of slush, though, but studs are ineffective on that
(except when there's hard ice underneath.) And the arterials
are generally kept pretty bare, and as I understand it, bare
pavement is hard on studs. If we had long continuous
stretches of hardpacked ice, then maybe I'd consider
studded tires.
I figure for dealing with our deep slush, what we really
need is the gnarliest knobby tires in the world, and
enough weight on the bike to bite through the slush and
dig down to the pavement. As a <= 150 lb guy, I'd have
to sling sandbags on my bike frame to accomplish that.
That would be too much hassle.
So my tactic is to just stay off the bike until conditions
improve. I can do that for a week or two (although it's
a hardship.) Besides, there are too many idiot drivers
around, who refuse to acknowledge that conditions are less
than ideal, as evidenced by the (car) tire tracks on the
sidewalks.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 20:55:19
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 19:48:28 -0800, tkeats2005@hotmail.com
(Tom Keats) wrote:
> "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> writes:
>> I was reading the link to nokian and schwalbe stud tires and it said that
>> people seem to think having just the front studded is good enough. It also
>> states why it is not.
>
>That's something I've casually wondered about, myself.
>Could a studded front + non-studded knobby rear be a
>workable compromise while saving $$$ that would otherwise
>be spent on a studded rear tire? I guess that depends on
>how rough and how firm the surface ice is.
That's how I was running my snow bike. It works okay on compacted
snow and slush. Then, after a few daily freeze/thaw cycles, we had
that deep freeze two winters ago the streets became polished lumps
and gullies of ice, I wiped out six times in about as many blocks.
After putting on the rear studded tire there were no more wipe outs.
--
zk
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 10:17:41
From: John Kane
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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nash wrote:
> Anyone made a decent studded tire.
> What did you use and how?
>
> MEC's are $50 Not keen on spending that much for a few weeks of use.
I managed 5 years of use (4 months/ year commuting) on my first pair of
studded tires (Nokia) so over time you get your money's worth. The
original outlay hurt but you get some very nice quality too.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 13:55:20
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 10:17:41 -0800, John Kane wrote:
> I managed 5 years of use (4 months/ year commuting) on my first pair of
> studded tires (Nokia) so over time you get your money's worth. The
> original outlay hurt but you get some very nice quality too.
I'm sure it's a lot cheaper than driving.
Matt O.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 20:05:44
From: nash
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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I was reading the link to nokian and schwalbe stud tires and it said that
people seem to think having just the front studded is good enough. It also
states why it is not. Keeping in mind they are biased but it made good
sense too.
I have seen a stud tires tool too if anyone is still into it but PNW does
not really warrant it except for this freaky weather we just had.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 00:51:24
From: me
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:48:09 +0000, nash wrote:
> Anyone made a decent studded tire.
> What did you use and how?
>
> MEC's are $50 Not keen on spending that much for a few weeks of use.
Like most of the others here they will last more than one season, my
problem is that the weather is very changeable here and I would realy
like to have more than one bike for different road "seasons"
On a separate note, does anyone know of a mildly knobby tire, perhaps
with a fairly solid centre rib, that is made of very sticky, grippy
rubber? i think it would work out better here, some lugs for snow
and grip for wet/slightly slushy conditions.
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 19:36:56
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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In article <axobh.390206$5R2.259413@pd7urf3no >,
"nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net > writes:
>>>>Spending money on real studded tires for only a few weeks of use
> means that they'll last over many years. They won't be cheaper next
> year. Store bought tires are probably better to use than home made
> ones when using the 700 C in any but the widest sizes. The screw
> heads are kinda bulky.<<<
>
>
> Ditto that. I would have to use fairly good tires anyway and that would be
> a waste of greenbacks also.
It's going to rain tonight, and that'll wash all the
snow & slush away, and we'll all be merrily zipping
around everywhere on slicks by Friday.
At least, I hope so.
In the words of Ricky from Trailer Park Boys: "I'm an
optometrist, I'm not a pessimist."
Maybe if everybody in the Lower Mainland stepped out all
at the same time, and smiled positive vibes at the weather,
that'll fix things up. And this snowfall will be the one
Big One for the season.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 21:20:13
From: nash
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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>>>Maybe if everybody in the Lower Mainland stepped out all
at the same time, and smiled positive vibes at the weather,
that'll fix things up. And this snowfall will be the one
Big One for the season.
I concur 102%
News weather said it will be a slow thaw.
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 19:39:21
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:48:09 +0000, nash wrote:
> Anyone made a decent studded tire.
> What did you use and how?
>
> MEC's are $50 Not keen on spending that much for a few weeks of use.
I have Minnova's that I got from Harris Cyclery. After two winters of
snow/ice-commuting on them, I have no missing studs, and no wear.
Real studded tires are better-suited for the job than regular tires and a
bunch of machine screws. The studs are considerably harder than a screw
head. They were not cheap, but less than $50 for sure.
--
David L. Johnson
__o
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 22:02:40
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:48:09 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net >
wrote:
>Anyone made a decent studded tire.
>What did you use and how?
>
>MEC's are $50 Not keen on spending that much for a few weeks of use.
Google it. Sheet metal screws, a knobby mtb-style tire, a little duct
tape and an old tube. Run the screws through from inside the tire
(through the knobs), split an old tube, use *small* tabs of duct tape
(or lots of patch glue) to position the old tube as a tire liner,
mount and ride.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 14:45:08
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:02:40 GMT, Werehatrack
<rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net > wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:48:09 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Anyone made a decent studded tire.
>>What did you use and how?
>>
>>MEC's are $50 Not keen on spending that much for a few weeks of use.
>
>Google it. Sheet metal screws, a knobby mtb-style tire, a little duct
>tape and an old tube. Run the screws through from inside the tire
>(through the knobs), split an old tube, use *small* tabs of duct tape
>(or lots of patch glue) to position the old tube as a tire liner,
>mount and ride.
I used a second MTB tire with a smooth road type tread as a liner.
With the sidewalls and bead removed it fits well and makes for easier
replacement of the screws after they've been ground down too far to
be useful.
Spending money on real studded tires for only a few weeks of use
means that they'll last over many years. They won't be cheaper next
year. Store bought tires are probably better to use than home made
ones when using the 700 C in any but the widest sizes. The screw
heads are kinda bulky.
--
zk
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 23:16:22
From: nash
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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>>>Spending money on real studded tires for only a few weeks of use
means that they'll last over many years. They won't be cheaper next
year. Store bought tires are probably better to use than home made
ones when using the 700 C in any but the widest sizes. The screw
heads are kinda bulky.<<<
Ditto that. I would have to use fairly good tires anyway and that would be
a waste of greenbacks also.
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 22:26:45
From: Stephen Harding
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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Werehatrack wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:48:09 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Anyone made a decent studded tire.
>>What did you use and how?
>>
>>MEC's are $50 Not keen on spending that much for a few weeks of use.
>
> Google it. Sheet metal screws, a knobby mtb-style tire, a little duct
> tape and an old tube. Run the screws through from inside the tire
> (through the knobs), split an old tube, use *small* tabs of duct tape
> (or lots of patch glue) to position the old tube as a tire liner,
> mount and ride.
That route works if you don't end up on pavement much.
In my winter commuting over the years, the roads end up
with only patches of ice/snow 2-3 days after a snowstorm,
so the screw "studs" wear down way too fast.
I wore down a set I made within about 3 weeks of riding
several winters back. Perhaps if I went with harder grade
steel or stainless screws I'd have done better, but then
the cost escalates considerably, not to mention it takes
a while putting all those screws in the tire.
I've gone to the basic Nokian carbide steel studded tire.
It is the cheaper model with a narrow knobby tread and
perhaps 100 or so studs (can't remember the count). It
set me back $60 each tire which is beyond your price range,
however, after three years of winter riding on them, they're
still barely worn, so it was a good investment in the long
run.
They make a monster 2" knobby version with almost 300 studs
I think for an outrageous price, but if you're really doing
ice, I suppose it might also be a good choice in the long
run.
SMH
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 03:10:48
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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"Stephen Harding" <smharding16@msn.com > wrote in message
news:FOnbh.11642$7a2.9897@trndny06...
>
> In my winter commuting over the years, the roads end up
> with only patches of ice/snow 2-3 days after a snowstorm,
> so the screw "studs" wear down way too fast.
>
> I've gone to the basic Nokian carbide steel studded tire.
> It is the cheaper model with a narrow knobby tread and
> perhaps 100 or so studs (can't remember the count). It
> set me back $60 each tire which is beyond your price range,
> however, after three years of winter riding on them, they're
> still barely worn, so it was a good investment in the long
> run.
>
> They make a monster 2" knobby version with almost 300 studs
> I think for an outrageous price, but if you're really doing
> ice, I suppose it might also be a good choice in the long
> run.
>
I agree fully with Stephen -- mine are about 5 years old and don't show
signs of wear. The front tire is the most crucial, so you might want to
consider just running a studded tire on the front.
You can see these models here:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 16:57:41
From: Bob in CT
Subject: Re: Studded tires
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:10:48 -0500, Mike Kruger <MikeKr@mouse-potato.com >
wrote:
> "Stephen Harding" <smharding16@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:FOnbh.11642$7a2.9897@trndny06...
>>
>> In my winter commuting over the years, the roads end up
>> with only patches of ice/snow 2-3 days after a snowstorm,
>> so the screw "studs" wear down way too fast.
>>
>> I've gone to the basic Nokian carbide steel studded tire.
>> It is the cheaper model with a narrow knobby tread and
>> perhaps 100 or so studs (can't remember the count). It
>> set me back $60 each tire which is beyond your price range,
>> however, after three years of winter riding on them, they're
>> still barely worn, so it was a good investment in the long
>> run.
>>
>> They make a monster 2" knobby version with almost 300 studs
>> I think for an outrageous price, but if you're really doing
>> ice, I suppose it might also be a good choice in the long
>> run.
>>
> I agree fully with Stephen -- mine are about 5 years old and don't show
> signs of wear. The front tire is the most crucial, so you might want to
> consider just running a studded tire on the front.
>
> You can see these models here:
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp
>
>
Nokian tires rock. I've ridden these for the last four years in the
winter. Loud as heck, though.
--
Bob in CT
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