Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

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Date: 02 Oct 2006 13:47:24
From: sk8boakcwb
Subject: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

hi, i have a Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub, and i need to
know if any of you know where i can locate a shifter cable and the
mechanism that inserts into the hub to change the gears.

any info would be greatly appreciated!

KC

Date: 04 Oct 2006 16:26:35
From: sk8boakcwb
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

thanks again for your help, but i actually found everything i needed
for a lot cheaper! (10 bucks for the cable and the little chain part
that inserts into the hub! lol) :-D
it was through a local bicycle shop called Two wheels, One Planet in
fullerton......

yeah, that 3 speed hub is pretty fascinating!

Dane Buson wrote:
> sk8boakcwb <sk8boakcwb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dane Buson wrote:
> >> sk8boakcwb <sk8boakcwb@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > hi, i have a Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub, and i need to
> >> > know if any of you know where i can locate a shifter cable and the
> >> > mechanism that inserts into the hub to change the gears.
> >>
> >> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html
> >>
> >> There are probably others, but Sheldon is probably the best place to
> >> look first.
> >
> > thanks dane!
> > out of all the replies, your was the most helpful!
> > i really wasn't expecting this fast of an answer :]
>
> You're welcome. I have a couple 3 speed hubs I need to get around to
> setting up, so the information was close to the top of my brain.
>
> > i think all the other folks got confused as to who they were supposed
> > to reply to, but i got my answer!
>
> I think they considered the link to Sheldon close to a definitive
> answer, so they felt free to wander after that. :-)
>
> --
> Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
> <sampson> twisted my fuckin ankle...don't go to riots in birkenstocks
> <sampson> they aren't good rioting shoes

Date: 04 Oct 2006 08:54:04
From: Sheldon Brown
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

Jobst Brandt wrote:
> ...SA three
> speed hubs were jinxed from the start by the ability to jump out of
> top gear into forward free wheeling under heavy load. The design of
> the driver "clutch" (cross) with right angle faces driving floating
> round pins with right circular shafts tilts them to an exiting angle
> that fails even with new parts and especially if the clutch is worn.
>
> Don't sprint on these hubs. Of course instead of modifying the
> design, users who went over the bars from this were told they had
> improperly adjusted the shift linkage. It's products like these that
> deserve to vanish from the ket but I lament the good design
> features going down the drain with it.

Jobst has a very unusual riding style. He is a very strong, fast
rider who prefers to push higher gears than most cyclsits do. The
Sturmey-Archer hubs are not a good choice for his riding style.
Generally it is a Bad Idea to stand up while pedaling on a Sturmey
Archer hub...but that's what gears are for, to make it so you don't
need to stand up!

However it is a mistake to over-generalize from this. I've ridden
thousands of miles on these hubs and never experienced this failure
mode, since I don't generally stand up to pedal, and don't climb/sprint
in top gear.

The classic AW hub is an astonishingly reliable device, one of the most
trouble-free, low-maintenance bicycle gear systems ever keted.

Most problems (not Jobst's issue though) with these hubs reslt from
improper installation (loose axle nuts, missing axle washers) and/or
incorrect cable adjustment.

http://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/aw.html

Sheldon "Not For Everyone" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------+

Date: 04 Oct 2006 18:17:31
From:
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

Sheldon Brown writes:

>> ...SA three speed hubs were jinxed from the start by the ability to
>> jump out of top gear into forward free wheeling under heavy load.
>> The design of the driver "clutch" (cross) with right angle faces
>> driving floating round pins with right circular shafts tilts them
>> to an exiting angle that fails even with new parts and especially
>> if the clutch is worn.

>> Don't sprint on these hubs. Of course instead of modifying the
>> design, users who went over the bars from this were told they had
>> improperly adjusted the shift linkage. It's products like these
>> that deserve to vanish from the ket but I lament the good design
>> features going down the drain with it.

> Jobst has a very unusual riding style. He is a very strong, fast
> rider who prefers to push higher gears than most cyclists do. The
> Sturmey-Archer hubs are not a good choice for his riding style.
> Generally it is a Bad Idea to stand up while pedaling on a Sturmey
> Archer hub...but that's what gears are for, to make it so you don't
> need to stand up!

This needn't be taken on faith if disassembling such a hub is
manageable. Any well used driver clutch will have wear indentations
from the four planet shafts, and these will be sloping toward the
disengagement direction. Under load, the axle will bend, even a small
amount and this causes parts supported by the ends of the housing to
be at an angle to each other. This angularity and the clearance in
the planet pins causes the disengagement force that is not retained by
the shift linkage but by the return spring.

A degree of greater safety could be gained with a stiffer spring or
possibly interweaving two return springs in one another. A suitable
design change would have been to make the ends of the planet shafts
with a one or two degree conical end and the clutch with a matching
slope at the place where the pins make contact.

> However it is a mistake to over-generalize from this. I've ridden
> thousands of miles on these hubs and never experienced this failure
> mode, since I don't generally stand up to pedal, and don't
> climb/sprint in top gear.

Well, there is where the problem is and it occurs when seated. The
difference is that when the drive disengages the rider doesn't take a
dive and can be taken as an inconsequential glitch. Besides, when it
is mentioned, it is relegated to faulty adjustment.

> The classic AW hub is an astonishingly reliable device, one of the
> most trouble-free, low-maintenance bicycle gear systems ever
> keted.

> Most problems (not Jobst's issue though) with these hubs result from
> improper installation (loose axle nuts, missing axle washers) and/or
> incorrect cable adjustment.

There you have it. That is the stock SA response that I've heard for
many years. "It's your fault!"

Jobst Brandt

Date: 04 Oct 2006 21:45:57
From: bill
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Sheldon Brown writes:
>
>>> ...SA three speed hubs were jinxed from the start by the ability to
>>> jump out of top gear into forward free wheeling under heavy load.
>>> The design of the driver "clutch" (cross) with right angle faces
>>> driving floating round pins with right circular shafts tilts them
>>> to an exiting angle that fails even with new parts and especially
>>> if the clutch is worn.
>
>>> Don't sprint on these hubs. Of course instead of modifying the
>>> design, users who went over the bars from this were told they had
>>> improperly adjusted the shift linkage. It's products like these
>>> that deserve to vanish from the ket but I lament the good design
>>> features going down the drain with it.
>
>> Jobst has a very unusual riding style. He is a very strong, fast
>> rider who prefers to push higher gears than most cyclists do. The
>> Sturmey-Archer hubs are not a good choice for his riding style.
>> Generally it is a Bad Idea to stand up while pedaling on a Sturmey
>> Archer hub...but that's what gears are for, to make it so you don't
>> need to stand up!
>
> This needn't be taken on faith if disassembling such a hub is
> manageable. Any well used driver clutch will have wear indentations
> from the four planet shafts, and these will be sloping toward the
> disengagement direction. Under load, the axle will bend, even a small
> amount and this causes parts supported by the ends of the housing to
> be at an angle to each other. This angularity and the clearance in
> the planet pins causes the disengagement force that is not retained by
> the shift linkage but by the return spring.
>
> A degree of greater safety could be gained with a stiffer spring or
> possibly interweaving two return springs in one another. A suitable
> design change would have been to make the ends of the planet shafts
> with a one or two degree conical end and the clutch with a matching
> slope at the place where the pins make contact.
>
>> However it is a mistake to over-generalize from this. I've ridden
>> thousands of miles on these hubs and never experienced this failure
>> mode, since I don't generally stand up to pedal, and don't
>> climb/sprint in top gear.
>
> Well, there is where the problem is and it occurs when seated. The
> difference is that when the drive disengages the rider doesn't take a
> dive and can be taken as an inconsequential glitch. Besides, when it
> is mentioned, it is relegated to faulty adjustment.
>
>> The classic AW hub is an astonishingly reliable device, one of the
>> most trouble-free, low-maintenance bicycle gear systems ever
>> keted.
>
>> Most problems (not Jobst's issue though) with these hubs result from
>> improper installation (loose axle nuts, missing axle washers) and/or
>> incorrect cable adjustment.
>
> There you have it. That is the stock SA response that I've heard for
> many years. "It's your fault!"
>
> Jobst Brandt

Hey guys,
I grew up in the 50's riding these things and never had any problem with
them. To the best of my knowledge (maybe too limited) these were mass
produced for the kids and casual riders and not the pro's. I do remember
an occasional skip when pedaling and changing gears at the same time but
never had one come out of gear once it was there. They did get me into
the maintain your own bike mode, by way of oiling the mechanism every
month and keeping the little cloth wipers clean. Bicycle mechanics 101
for 10 year olds.
Bill Baka

Date: 03 Oct 2006 08:34:25
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

Patrick Lamb wrote:
> On 2 Oct 2006 18:04:12 -0700, "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Werehatrack wrote:
> >> On 02 Oct 2006 23:19:34 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Don't sprint on these hubs. Of course instead of modifying the
> >> >design, users who went over the bars from this were told they had
> >> >improperly adjusted the shift linkage. It's products like these that
> >> >deserve to vanish from the ket but I lament the good design
> >> >features going down the drain with it.
> >>
> >> Cheap and reliable rear derailleurs have done more to take the gearhub
> >> off the US ket than any shortcomings of either the SA or the
> >> Shimano units, though.
> >
> >I'd say it was more keting when it comes to lower priced bikes. Hub
> >gears are still wildly popular in places where people actually bike as
> >a way of life.
>
> Dunno about that. An LBS in the early 70s sold me and my sister SA
> 3-speeds. Two years later, after numerous adjustments and at least
> one new hub, I bought a 10-speed derailer bike, and the same salesman
> told me something like, "That's what your should have bought for the
> hills in your neighborhood in the first place." (I always wondered
> after that why he sold us the SAs -- he lived 5 blocks from us!)

Still nothing wrong with the SAs or the Sachs hubs I rode in the
Swedish hills as a kiddo, he just set you up with too small of a rear
cog--as was common for just about all 3 speed bikes back when they were
popular. In a truly hilly place, setting the hub up for alpine, low,
and a cruising gear makes more sense than having a high gear when you
can just coast down the other side. :P

Date: 02 Oct 2006 21:33:55
From: sk8boakcwb
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

Dane Buson wrote:
> sk8boakcwb <sk8boakcwb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > hi, i have a Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub, and i need to
> > know if any of you know where i can locate a shifter cable and the
> > mechanism that inserts into the hub to change the gears.
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html
>
> There are probably others, but Sheldon is probably the best place to
> look first.
>
> --
> Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
> "What George Washington did for us was to throw out the British, so that we
> wouldn't have a fat, insensitive government running our country. Nice try
> anyway, George." -- D.J. on KSFO/KYA

thanks dane!
out of all the replies, your was the most helpful!
i really wasn't expecting this fast of an answer :]

i think all the other folks got confused as to who they were supposed
to reply to, but i got my answer!

thanks again!

KC

Date: 03 Oct 2006 05:24:11
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

sk8boakcwb <sk8boakcwb@gmail.com > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> sk8boakcwb <sk8boakcwb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > hi, i have a Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub, and i need to
>> > know if any of you know where i can locate a shifter cable and the
>> > mechanism that inserts into the hub to change the gears.
>>
>> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html
>>
>> There are probably others, but Sheldon is probably the best place to
>> look first.
>
> thanks dane!
> out of all the replies, your was the most helpful!
> i really wasn't expecting this fast of an answer :]

You're welcome. I have a couple 3 speed hubs I need to get around to
setting up, so the information was close to the top of my brain.

> i think all the other folks got confused as to who they were supposed
> to reply to, but i got my answer!

I think they considered the link to Sheldon close to a definitive
answer, so they felt free to wander after that. :-)

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
<sampson > twisted my fuckin ankle...don't go to riots in birkenstocks
<sampson > they aren't good rioting shoes

Date: 02 Oct 2006 18:11:57
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

Werehatrack wrote:
> On 02 Oct 2006 23:19:34 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
> >Dane Buson writes:
> >
> >>> Hi, I have a Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub, and I need
> >>> to know if any of you know where I can locate a shifter cable and
> >>> the mechanism that inserts into the hub to change the gears.
> >
> > http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html
> >
> >> There are probably others, but Sheldon is probably the best place to
> >> look first.
> >
> >Any older bicycle shop that has a scrap pile of old clunkers out back
> >will have an SA hub with the shift chain and shaft in it. SA three
> >speed hubs were jinxed from the start by the ability to jump out of
> >top gear into forward free wheeling under heavy load. The design of
> >the driver "clutch" (cross) with right angle faces driving floating
> >round pins with right circular shafts tilts them to an exiting angle
> >that fails even with new parts and especially if the clutch is worn.
> >
> >Don't sprint on these hubs. Of course instead of modifying the
> >design, users who went over the bars from this were told they had
> >improperly adjusted the shift linkage. It's products like these that
> >deserve to vanish from the ket but I lament the good design
> >features going down the drain with it.
>
> Cheap and reliable rear derailleurs have done more to take the gearhub
> off the US ket than any shortcomings of either the SA or the
> Shimano units, though.

I'd say it was more keting when it comes to lower priced bikes. Hub
gears are still wildly popular in places where people actually bike as
a way of life.
;) :P

As far as I know, the new SA SRF3, is a new and really affordable hub
w/o the clutch issues. Comes with cable and shifter with a street price
of $60.

Date: 02 Oct 2006 18:04:12
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

Date: 02 Oct 2006 20:24:11
From: Patrick Lamb
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

On 2 Oct 2006 18:04:12 -0700, "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
>Werehatrack wrote:
>> On 02 Oct 2006 23:19:34 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>> >
>> >Don't sprint on these hubs. Of course instead of modifying the
>> >design, users who went over the bars from this were told they had
>> >improperly adjusted the shift linkage. It's products like these that
>> >deserve to vanish from the ket but I lament the good design
>> >features going down the drain with it.
>>
>> Cheap and reliable rear derailleurs have done more to take the gearhub
>> off the US ket than any shortcomings of either the SA or the
>> Shimano units, though.
>
>I'd say it was more keting when it comes to lower priced bikes. Hub
>gears are still wildly popular in places where people actually bike as
>a way of life.

Dunno about that. An LBS in the early 70s sold me and my sister SA
3-speeds. Two years later, after numerous adjustments and at least
one new hub, I bought a 10-speed derailer bike, and the same salesman
told me something like, "That's what your should have bought for the
hills in your neighborhood in the first place." (I always wondered
after that why he sold us the SAs -- he lived 5 blocks from us!)

Pat

Email address works as is.

Date: 02 Oct 2006 15:55:32
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

sk8boakcwb <sk8boakcwb@gmail.com > wrote:
> hi, i have a Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub, and i need to
> know if any of you know where i can locate a shifter cable and the
> mechanism that inserts into the hub to change the gears.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html

There are probably others, but Sheldon is probably the best place to
look first.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"What George Washington did for us was to throw out the British, so that we
wouldn't have a fat, insensitive government running our country. Nice try
anyway, George." -- D.J. on KSFO/KYA

Date: 02 Oct 2006 23:19:34
From:
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

Dane Buson writes:

>> Hi, I have a Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub, and I need
>> to know if any of you know where I can locate a shifter cable and
>> the mechanism that inserts into the hub to change the gears.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html

> There are probably others, but Sheldon is probably the best place to
> look first.

Any older bicycle shop that has a scrap pile of old clunkers out back
will have an SA hub with the shift chain and shaft in it. SA three
speed hubs were jinxed from the start by the ability to jump out of
top gear into forward free wheeling under heavy load. The design of
the driver "clutch" (cross) with right angle faces driving floating
round pins with right circular shafts tilts them to an exiting angle
that fails even with new parts and especially if the clutch is worn.

Don't sprint on these hubs. Of course instead of modifying the
design, users who went over the bars from this were told they had
improperly adjusted the shift linkage. It's products like these that
deserve to vanish from the ket but I lament the good design
features going down the drain with it.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 03 Oct 2006 00:00:52
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub

On 02 Oct 2006 23:19:34 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:

>Dane Buson writes:
>
>>> Hi, I have a Sturmey Archer 1968 model AW 3 speed hub, and I need
>>> to know if any of you know where I can locate a shifter cable and
>>> the mechanism that inserts into the hub to change the gears.
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html
>
>> There are probably others, but Sheldon is probably the best place to
>> look first.
>
>Any older bicycle shop that has a scrap pile of old clunkers out back
>will have an SA hub with the shift chain and shaft in it. SA three
>speed hubs were jinxed from the start by the ability to jump out of
>top gear into forward free wheeling under heavy load. The design of
>the driver "clutch" (cross) with right angle faces driving floating
>round pins with right circular shafts tilts them to an exiting angle
>that fails even with new parts and especially if the clutch is worn.
>
>Don't sprint on these hubs. Of course instead of modifying the
>design, users who went over the bars from this were told they had
>improperly adjusted the shift linkage. It's products like these that
>deserve to vanish from the ket but I lament the good design
>features going down the drain with it.

Cheap and reliable rear derailleurs have done more to take the gearhub
off the US ket than any shortcomings of either the SA or the
Shimano units, though.
--
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