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Main
Date: 11 Sep 2006 18:11:39
From: Jim Higson
Subject: Traffic jam riding
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Twice a day the bigger roads in my town get into a bit of a jam for half an
hour or so. I tend to ride in the five o'clock one.
The roads are all two lanes. I've tried a few things to get through:
* Take the lane and stay in traffic (slow, not much fun, polluted)
* Overtake on the outside (left since I'm in the UK). This is OK, but
drivers tend to not see you coming past and don't give much room. Sometimes
they drift outwards and the gap closes as you pass...
* Ride near the centre of the road and overtake.
* Ride on the pavement (riding just faster than walking is still faster than
waiting in traffic)
* Have a cup of tea and ride when it clears up
Anyone with more experience than me have any advice for this situation?
--
Jim
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Date: 14 Sep 2006 08:25:58
From:
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding [undertaking]
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k wrote:
> Jim Higson wrote about this possibilty:
> >
> > * Overtake on the outside (left since I'm in the UK). This is OK, but
> > drivers tend to not see you coming past and don't give much room. Sometimes
> > they drift outwards and the gap closes as you pass...
>
> I think this is called undertaking in the UK, and it's dangerous and
> illegal. It's distinctly more difficult for a motorist to monitor the
> offside (right hand side in US, left hand side in UK) rear view mirror
> than to monitor the nearside mirror. The bigger the vehicle, the higher
> the odds that the operator won't see you coming up on the wrong (left in
> UK) side. I'm told that getting hit by a left turning truck/lorry/HGV is
> a leading cause of fatalities for UK cyclists. "Road pizza" is the
> phrase I used when trying to dissuade my eldest niece from doing this.
I know that "undertaking" (overtaking on the curb side) is usually
strongly discouraged. It's comforting to some people to say "You're a
vehicle. Always pass on the [American] left" - that is, toward the
road's center.
ISTM that in many traffic-jam situations, that wouldn't work well.
There can be lots of stop-and-go action. Prohibiting curbside passing
by the cyclist can mean the cars get to pass the bike for five seconds
(when there's sufficient room), but when they stop, the cyclist isn't
allowed to use the exact same amount of room to return the "favor."
The cyclist would get ratcheted back in traffic despite having room to
safely move forward.
Should the cyclist pass on the left? Sometimes - but it's possible to
get caught by a sudden freeing of traffic. The cyclist can find
himself being passed on _his_ curbside by 40 MPH motorists who don't
expect him there.
Passing on the curb side is sometimes a realistic option. When I do it
(not often) I do it slowly and with great care, never at full cycling
speed. But I think a blanket prohibition is overkill.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 16 Sep 2006 12:48:08
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding [undertaking]
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frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> Should the cyclist pass on the left? Sometimes - but it's possible to
> get caught by a sudden freeing of traffic. The cyclist can find
> himself being passed on _his_ curbside by 40 MPH motorists who don't
> expect him there.
I think it's not too hard to avoid being "caught" by watching for the
freeing of traffic and quickly merging back to the right before it
accelerates to a speed you can't maintain.
It's common around here (Boston) for motorists to split lanes at
intersections leaving no room at the curb to get by. In these
circumstances I find it much more practical to just pass along the left.
It can get tricky if you're going straight and get blocked by the left
turning line of cars. In those situations you can either take the left
and cross back or wait for the light to cycle and cross the head of the
lines.
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Date: 15 Sep 2006 10:18:39
From: Jim Higson
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding [undertaking]
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frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>
> k wrote:
>> Jim Higson wrote about this possibilty:
>> >
>> > * Overtake on the outside (left since I'm in the UK). This is OK, but
>> > drivers tend to not see you coming past and don't give much room.
>> > Sometimes they drift outwards and the gap closes as you pass...
>>
>> I think this is called undertaking in the UK, and it's dangerous and
>> illegal. It's distinctly more difficult for a motorist to monitor the
>> offside (right hand side in US, left hand side in UK) rear view mirror
>> than to monitor the nearside mirror. The bigger the vehicle, the higher
>> the odds that the operator won't see you coming up on the wrong (left in
>> UK) side. I'm told that getting hit by a left turning truck/lorry/HGV is
>> a leading cause of fatalities for UK cyclists. "Road pizza" is the
>> phrase I used when trying to dissuade my eldest niece from doing this.
>
> I know that "undertaking" (overtaking on the curb side) is usually
> strongly discouraged. It's comforting to some people to say "You're a
> vehicle. Always pass on the [American] left" - that is, toward the
> road's center.
>
> ISTM that in many traffic-jam situations, that wouldn't work well.
> There can be lots of stop-and-go action. Prohibiting curbside passing
> by the cyclist can mean the cars get to pass the bike for five seconds
> (when there's sufficient room), but when they stop, the cyclist isn't
> allowed to use the exact same amount of room to return the "favor."
> The cyclist would get ratcheted back in traffic despite having room to
> safely move forward.
>
> Should the cyclist pass on the left? Sometimes - but it's possible to
> get caught by a sudden freeing of traffic. The cyclist can find
> himself being passed on _his_ curbside by 40 MPH motorists who don't
> expect him there.
>
> Passing on the curb side is sometimes a realistic option. When I do it
> (not often) I do it slowly and with great care, never at full cycling
> speed. But I think a blanket prohibition is overkill.
Thanks for that post. Very interesting.
Luckily, the road I ride in doesn't suddenly speed up to 40mph (more like 5)
so I'll try overtaking near the centre (on the right here in the UK) when
I'm on less familiar ground, though, I'll take what you said into account.
There was one option I originally missed: walking the bike on the pavement.
Not fast, not fun, but sometimes faster and safer than taking the land and
waiting in traffic.
--
Jim
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 08:46:45
From: POHB
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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Jim Higson wrote:
>
> Anyone with more experience than me have any advice for this situation?
>
I don't think there is a correct answer to this one. I'd try to ride
up the centre of the road if there's room and the oncoming traffic is
not too scarey, then weave to the kerb side and shuffle along that way
for a bit. At least you can feel smug that you aren't stuck in the
queue like the motorists.
This might be one of the occasions when a white-paint cycle lane might
help? You might be vulnerable to drivers opening doors, but no worse
than you've already got if approached with caution.
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 10:43:44
From: Chris Z The Wheelman
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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You're in town, right?
Find another road.
- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner
To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 18:56:17
From: Jim Higson
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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Chris Z The Wheelman wrote:
> You're in town, right?
A quite small town in Wales, yes.
> Find another road.
I'd have to petition for it to be built first :)
Well, I suppose there *is* a another way, but it is about three times as
far, goes up two very steep hills and is usually only slightly less jammed.
--
Jim
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 14:34:37
From: Chris Z The Wheelman
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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Group: rec.bicycles.misc Date: Tue, Sep 12, 2006, 6:56pm (EDT+5)
From: jh@333.org (Jim=A0Higson)
>I'd have to petition for it to be built first :)
>Well, I suppose there *is* a another way,
>but it is about three times as far, goes up
>two very steep hills and is usually only
>slightly less jammed.
Well, personally, I'de take the hillier, less traveled route if that was
my only choice. Hills hurt, but they make you a stronger rider, where as
the hurt you could get from traffic, well...
When I was in El Lay, I lived in the canyons for a long time and it
seemed there was only one way over Mulholland Drive into the S.F.
Valley, Beverly Glen Blvd. (another death trap, esp. around rush hour).
That was until I got my first mountain bike and discovered the fire
roads. Maybe there is a less conventional route in your town?
- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner
To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 20:15:51
From: Patrick Lamb
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:11:39 +0100, Jim Higson <jh@333.org > wrote:
>Twice a day the bigger roads in my town get into a bit of a jam for half an
>hour or so. I tend to ride in the five o'clock one.
>
>The roads are all two lanes. I've tried a few things to get through:
>
>* Have a cup of tea and ride when it clears up
My favorite. Flex time lets me miss the worst of rush hour (4:45-5:15
in the afternoon), and the traffic is usually at tolerable levels
early or late.
Pat
Email address works as is.
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 18:56:33
From: mark
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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Jim Higson wrote:
> Twice a day the bigger roads in my town get into a bit of a jam for half an
> hour or so. I tend to ride in the five o'clock one.
>
> The roads are all two lanes. I've tried a few things to get through:
>
> * Take the lane and stay in traffic (slow, not much fun, polluted)
This is good to do as you approach junctions, driveways, roundabouts,
etc. You're more visible to other vehicle operators and it's harder for
them to squeeze past you in an unsafe manner.
> * Overtake on the outside (left since I'm in the UK). This is OK, but
> drivers tend to not see you coming past and don't give much room. Sometimes
> they drift outwards and the gap closes as you pass...
I think this is called undertaking in the UK, and it's dangerous and
illegal. It's distinctly more difficult for a motorist to monitor the
offside (right hand side in US, left hand side in UK) rear view mirror
than to monitor the nearside mirror. The bigger the vehicle, the higher
the odds that the operator won't see you coming up on the wrong (left in
UK) side. I'm told that getting hit by a left turning truck/lorry/HGV is
a leading cause of fatalities for UK cyclists. "Road pizza" is the
phrase I used when trying to dissuade my eldest niece from doing this.
> * Ride near the centre of the road and overtake.
Most enjoyable and probably safest option, provided you are extremely
alert for vehicles turning across your path from either direction.
> * Ride on the pavement (riding just faster than walking is still faster than
> waiting in traffic)
Frequently illegal, dangerous and annoying to pedestrians, dangerous to
the cyclist at times.
> * Have a cup of tea and ride when it clears up
Best option if your schedule permit. Of course, if everybody did that
then the 5 o'clock jam would just get put back to 6 o'clock, wouldn't it?
>
> Anyone with more experience than me have any advice for this situation?
>
As Ben said, finding an alternate route can be a good option, if there
is a suitable alternate route.
HTH,
k
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 09:37:04
From: Jim Higson
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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k wrote:
>> * Ride near the centre of the road and overtake.
>
> Most enjoyable and probably safest option, provided you are extremely
> alert for vehicles turning across your path from either direction.
That was what I've been thinking too. Recently I've been going this way and
not had any problems. The road is long and straight with only a few
junctions so this isn't particularly hazardous. The only issue is it leaves
me on the wrong side of the lane for turning left when I get to a large
roundabout at the end of the road, which is usually where traffic frees up
again.
>> * Ride on the pavement (riding just faster than walking is still faster
>> than waiting in traffic)
>> * Have a cup of tea and ride when it clears up
>
> Best option if your schedule permit. Of course, if everybody did that
> then the 5 o'clock jam would just get put back to 6 o'clock, wouldn't it?
Ah, true.
--
Jim
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 09:24:37
From: Jim Higson
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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k wrote:
>> * Ride on the pavement (riding just faster than walking is still faster
>> than waiting in traffic)
>
> Frequently illegal, dangerous and annoying to pedestrians, dangerous to
> the cyclist at times.
I should probably point out that this it is just one long road, without any
houses or buildings, so you'd see any pedestrians in good time. Normally
there aren't any.
Not that I'd usually advocate riding on the pavement, but in this case it
isn't very dangerous.
--
Jim
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 14:24:50
From: Claire Petersky
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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From time to time, I find myself on a street at rush hour that is used as a
sort of waiting spot for cars trying to get on the freeway. Howell Street, I
think it is. The whole thing is a CM of cars, corking up the intersection
and otherwise making it impossible for non-motorized wheeled vehicles to get
through. What is inconceivable to me is that there are motorists who do this
*every day*. Can you possibly imagine? No wonder everyone's afflicted with
road rage.
I've taken the sidewalk, as suggested, from time to time, because the
pedestrians and cross streets on this stretch are so few. The problem with
that is that the on-ramp to the freeway is on the right, and cars are
unpredictable about making that turn.
An alternate route would have to be really alternate -- there's a lot of one
way streets and things coming at odd angles through those blocks, and I'd be
trying to cross a busy streets without the right of way at a stop sign, as
opposed to getting a signal light.
I will confess that my usual practice is to split the lane, calling out,
"coming through!" as I do so. I find it hair-raising. If that was my usual
PM commute, as opposed to something I do once or twice a month, I'd consider
trying to find something better.
--
Warm Regards,
Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 08:18:28
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:56:33 GMT, k wrote:
> I think this is called undertaking in the UK, and it's dangerous and
> illegal.
It's legal here in Australia, at least when the traffic is stationary.
Agreed that it's dangerous when the traffic is merely slow - I prefer to
push in and be seen when our speed is similar, rather than ride
alongside a particular vehicle.
And you need to very watchful for left turners - not just indicators, but
braking and turning front wheels.
--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw
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Date: 14 Sep 2006 01:40:02
From: Ozdude
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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"Michael Warner" <see@homepage.com > wrote in message
news:1o6nulua5huux.125o08di8fqhn.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:56:33 GMT, k wrote:
>
>> I think this is called undertaking in the UK, and it's dangerous and
>> illegal.
>
> It's legal here in Australia, at least when the traffic is stationary.
> Agreed that it's dangerous when the traffic is merely slow - I prefer to
> push in and be seen when our speed is similar, rather than ride
> alongside a particular vehicle.
>
> And you need to very watchful for left turners - not just indicators, but
> braking and turning front wheels.
>
> --
> Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw
Come to Sydney where car drivers actively go for cyclists and move so far
left nothing can get through. Or may as well be drunk at the wheel (cell
phones) or get super rage at you because they lost 0.001 seconds of journey
time making allowance for a cycle doing 40km/h - it's a sh*t fight here -
where the car rules and the government does zilch because it's too busy
raking in revenue from licence fees, fines, green slips, compulsory 3rd
party insurance, road tax and petrol excises.
We just lost 90% of new cycle ways in the city to the almighty combustion
engined vehicle, over a tunnel for the poor blighters.
Surely one day they'll realise that if they are within 10km of anywhere a
bike ride will get them there faster with all of it's health benefits -
what's that I hear now? Over 50% of Australians are now "obese" - I wonder
why? ;)
Oz
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Date: 13 Sep 2006 20:53:50
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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"Ozdude" <ivsmith11@hote-mail.com > wrote:
>Come to Sydney where car drivers actively go for cyclists and move so far
>left nothing can get through. Or may as well be drunk at the wheel (cell
>phones) or get super rage at you because they lost 0.001 seconds of journey
>time making allowance for a cycle doing 40km/h - it's a sh*t fight here -
>where the car rules and the government does zilch because it's too busy
>raking in revenue from licence fees, fines, green slips, compulsory 3rd
>party insurance, road tax and petrol excises.
Actually, Sydney has less of a car culture than many places, due to
its very effective mass transit system. But it's certainly NOT a
rider's paradise. I lived in the North Shore area (Killara) for a
couple years, and did almost no road riding. The MTBing was some of
my favorite anywhere though. Ahhhhh.....
>Surely one day they'll realise that if they are within 10km of anywhere a
>bike ride will get them there faster with all of it's health benefits -
>what's that I hear now? Over 50% of Australians are now "obese" - I wonder
>why? ;)
It's mainly 'cuz you've got GREAT beer, mate! :-)
k Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
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Date: 14 Sep 2006 05:25:31
From: Artoi
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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In article <rekhg29i3vju3aeasg2sc2lqvq1a8c71ma@4ax.com >,
k Hickey <k@habcycles.com > wrote:
> Actually, Sydney has less of a car culture than many places, due to
> its very effective mass transit system. But it's certainly NOT a
> rider's paradise. I lived in the North Shore area (Killara) for a
> couple years, and did almost no road riding. The MTBing was some of
> my favorite anywhere though. Ahhhhh.....
It's those damn hills that stops many wannabe cyclists...
--
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 21:55:32
From: Artoi
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
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In article <BjiNg.6312$v%4.820@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
k <kfelber@earthlink.net > wrote:
> Jim Higson wrote:
> > * Overtake on the outside (left since I'm in the UK). This is OK, but
> > drivers tend to not see you coming past and don't give much room. Sometimes
> > they drift outwards and the gap closes as you pass...
>
> I think this is called undertaking in the UK, and it's dangerous and
> illegal.
Are you sure this is illegal? Here in Australia (drive on the same side
as UK), left lane overtaking is specifically permitted for cyclists. Is
UK law different in this regard?
Of course, we are not talking about the safety aspect.
--
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 22:36:56
From: mark
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
|
Artoi wrote:
> In article <BjiNg.6312$v%4.820@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> k <kfelber@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Jim Higson wrote:
>
>>> * Overtake on the outside (left since I'm in the UK). This is OK, but
>>> drivers tend to not see you coming past and don't give much room. Sometimes
>>> they drift outwards and the gap closes as you pass...
>> I think this is called undertaking in the UK, and it's dangerous and
>> illegal.
>
> Are you sure this is illegal? Here in Australia (drive on the same side
> as UK), left lane overtaking is specifically permitted for cyclists. Is
> UK law different in this regard?
>
> Of course, we are not talking about the safety aspect.
> --
My part of the US allows undertaking on roads with two or more lanes in
the direction being traveled, and/or when the vehicle being passed has
signaled a left turn. I have alway understood undertaking to be one of
those universally illegal practices, with the two exceptions I mentioned
being permitted to varying degrees in some, but not all areas. I have
also understood that cyclists on UK roads are treated as vehicles
(except in West Mercia) and expected to follow the same rules that other
vehicles do (at least, that's what I've done when cycling in the UK). If
any British cyclists wish to correct me on this that's fine, but I still
don't think it's a safe thing to do.
k
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 20:32:36
From:
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
|
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:56:33 GMT, k <kfelber@earthlink.net >
wrote:
>Jim Higson wrote:
>
>> * Overtake on the outside (left since I'm in the UK). This is OK, but
>> drivers tend to not see you coming past and don't give much room. Sometimes
>> they drift outwards and the gap closes as you pass...
>
>I think this is called undertaking in the UK, and it's dangerous and
>illegal.
Yes, not always, and no.
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 20:30:40
From: Frank Drackman
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
|
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:56:33 GMT, k <kfelber@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Jim Higson wrote:
>
>>
>>> * Overtake on the outside (left since I'm in the UK). This is OK, but
>>> drivers tend to not see you coming past and don't give much room.
>>> Sometimes
>>> they drift outwards and the gap closes as you pass...
>>
>>I think this is called undertaking in the UK, and it's dangerous and
>>illegal.
>
I don't know if it legal or not but I don't do it. I know that it makes car
drivers angry and I try to keep them happy. I followed two riders through a
busy town this afternoon. They were vehicles when it was an advantage to
them and pedestrians on bikes when it wasn't. One car had to pass them
three times and the driver finally blew her horn during the third pass where
one of the riders was taking the lane.
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 10:27:43
From: Ben Pfaff
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
|
Jim Higson <jh@333.org > writes:
> Twice a day the bigger roads in my town get into a bit of a jam for half an
> hour or so. I tend to ride in the five o'clock one.
[...]
> Anyone with more experience than me have any advice for this situation?
Well, when I find myself in that situation, I try to find a
smaller road with less traffic. Often, in my experience, there's
one nearby that drivers avoid because of a low speed limit, lack
of connection with freeways, etc., that is nevertheless just fine
for biking.
--
"J'avais trouv'e ma religion :
rien ne me parut plus important qu'un livre.
La biblioth`eque, j'y voyais un temple."
--Jean-Paul Sartre
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 09:25:46
From: Jim Higson
Subject: Re: Traffic jam riding
|
Ben Pfaff wrote:
> Jim Higson <jh@333.org> writes:
>
>> Twice a day the bigger roads in my town get into a bit of a jam for half
>> an hour or so. I tend to ride in the five o'clock one.
> [...]
>> Anyone with more experience than me have any advice for this situation?
>
> Well, when I find myself in that situation, I try to find a
> smaller road with less traffic. Often, in my experience, there's
> one nearby that drivers avoid because of a low speed limit, lack
> of connection with freeways, etc., that is nevertheless just fine
> for biking.
Afraid there aren't any in this case for most of the way. My town pretty
much only has two roads in/out, and I don't live on the other one!
--
Jim
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