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Main
Date: 09 May 2007 03:19:46
From: SMS
Subject: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
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I got my _Costco Connection_ magazine in the mail and noticed that
Costco.com has really expanded their bicycle line. I wouldn't have
expected to be able to buy a 17 pound full carbon frame bike, with
Dura-Ace components from Costco (and I wouldn't) but is anyone actually
ordering a $2300 bicycle from Costco?
"http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11215925"
AFAIK, you can't even buy a carbon-frame Trek with Dura-Ace, you have to
go to their Lemond line for the higher level components.
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Date: 12 May 2007 14:59:07
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
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On May 12, 3:50 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> > Mike - just to be clear: my comment of "not very true" was in response
> > to the idea that "adjusting gears and brakes [...] really are the only
> > adjustments necessary" in assembling a bike out of the box. And "Rotsa
> > Ruck" to anyone who believes that only those adjustments are needed. I
> > wasn't trying to "belittle" anyone and, in fact, I try to foster a
> > sense of mechanical competence and competence in others.
>
> Right, I was agreeing with you. There are others here who seem to feel if
> someone doesn't feel competent working with their bike, they're just not
> worthy of being a cyclist.
>
IMO, our talents can manifest in many different ways. I've known some
very talented and enthusiastic cyclists who couldn't adjust a RD worth
a hoot. But, when their bike was working right, they were usually
among the first up the hill.
Some of us can sing, some can't (I confess!). And so on......
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Date: 13 May 2007 04:33:59
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
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In article <1179007147.111571.160610@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On May 12, 3:50 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> > > Mike - just to be clear: my comment of "not very true" was in response
> > > to the idea that "adjusting gears and brakes [...] really are the only
> > > adjustments necessary" in assembling a bike out of the box. And "Rotsa
> > > Ruck" to anyone who believes that only those adjustments are needed. I
> > > wasn't trying to "belittle" anyone and, in fact, I try to foster a
> > > sense of mechanical competence and competence in others.
> >
> > Right, I was agreeing with you. There are others here who seem to feel if
> > someone doesn't feel competent working with their bike, they're just not
> > worthy of being a cyclist.
> >
>
> IMO, our talents can manifest in many different ways. I've known some
> very talented and enthusiastic cyclists who couldn't adjust a RD worth
> a hoot. But, when their bike was working right, they were usually
> among the first up the hill.
I sometimes think there's reasons the two talents would be mutually
exclusive. The guy who is always first up the hill very quickly gets to
a point in the sport where somebody is always there to take care of the
bike.
The guy who places fifteenth, on the other hand, is either going to have
to pay for that service, or do it himself.
You may infer from my general competence as a bike mechanic how badly I
race,
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 12 May 2007 13:16:57
From: Camilo
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
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On May 12, 8:41 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> >> confident enough to assesmble bike from carton.
>
> > Very true. Keyword: Competent.
>
> >> A book or onlineguide
> >> will easily guide someone in adjusting gears and a brakes which really
> >> are the only adjustments necessary
>
> > Not very true.>
> > Rotsa ruck.
>
> Some people have an intuitive feel for things mechanical, and some don't.
> Intelligence doesn't seem to be the issue. Books and web references are
> great for those who do well getting their hands dirty, but there are some
> for whom just changing a tire becomes a challenging task. I don't think
> there's reason to belittle such people, but just accept it and recognize
> that not everybody's the same.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Agree totally. Not only that, but some of us, while we might even
enjoy wrenching and have a bit of competence, just don't have the time
to mess with it from time to time. Even stranger, some people's time
is worth a lot more than what they'd pay a professional bike mechanic
to do the work, er, professionally and efficiently.
All I'm saying is that yes indeed it is not rocket science to put
together a shipped bike and adjust the brakes, derrailleurs, bars,
seat, etc. Wheels, I'll leave up in the air (I never mess with wheels
personally, but do the other stuff). But sometimes paying a good
person to do any sort of work is the cheapest and best alternative at
the same time.
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Date: 12 May 2007 09:53:58
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
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On May 12, 11:41 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> >> confident enough to assesmble bike from carton.
>
> > Very true. Keyword: Competent.
>
> >> A book or onlineguide
> >> will easily guide someone in adjusting gears and a brakes which really
> >> are the only adjustments necessary
>
> > Not very true.
>
> > Rotsa ruck.
>
> Some people have an intuitive feel for things mechanical, and some don't.
> Intelligence doesn't seem to be the issue. Books and web references are
> great for those who do well getting their hands dirty, but there are some
> for whom just changing a tire becomes a challenging task. I don't think
> there's reason to belittle such people, but just accept it and recognize
> that not everybody's the same.
>
Mike - just to be clear: my comment of "not very true" was in response
to the idea that "adjusting gears and brakes [...] really are the only
adjustments necessary" in assembling a bike out of the box. And "Rotsa
Ruck" to anyone who believes that only those adjustments are needed. I
wasn't trying to "belittle" anyone and, in fact, I try to foster a
sense of mechanical competence and competence in others.
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Date: 12 May 2007 20:50:12
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
|
> Mike - just to be clear: my comment of "not very true" was in response
> to the idea that "adjusting gears and brakes [...] really are the only
> adjustments necessary" in assembling a bike out of the box. And "Rotsa
> Ruck" to anyone who believes that only those adjustments are needed. I
> wasn't trying to "belittle" anyone and, in fact, I try to foster a
> sense of mechanical competence and competence in others.
Right, I was agreeing with you. There are others here who seem to feel if
someone doesn't feel competent working with their bike, they're just not
worthy of being a cyclist.
--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote in message
news:1178988838.409702.271740@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On May 12, 11:41 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >> confident enough to assesmble bike from carton.
>>
>> > Very true. Keyword: Competent.
>>
>> >> A book or onlineguide
>> >> will easily guide someone in adjusting gears and a brakes which really
>> >> are the only adjustments necessary
>>
>> > Not very true.
>>
>> > Rotsa ruck.
>>
>> Some people have an intuitive feel for things mechanical, and some don't.
>> Intelligence doesn't seem to be the issue. Books and web references are
>> great for those who do well getting their hands dirty, but there are some
>> for whom just changing a tire becomes a challenging task. I don't think
>> there's reason to belittle such people, but just accept it and recognize
>> that not everybody's the same.
>>
>
> Mike - just to be clear: my comment of "not very true" was in response
> to the idea that "adjusting gears and brakes [...] really are the only
> adjustments necessary" in assembling a bike out of the box. And "Rotsa
> Ruck" to anyone who believes that only those adjustments are needed. I
> wasn't trying to "belittle" anyone and, in fact, I try to foster a
> sense of mechanical competence and competence in others.
>
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Date: 12 May 2007 09:38:03
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
|
On May 12, 7:17 am, big...@backpacker.com wrote:
> A $50-100 "set up " is hardly necessary for someone who is competent/
> confident enough to assesmble bike from carton.
Very true. Keyword: Competent.
> A book or onlineguide
> will easily guide someone in adjusting gears and a brakes which really
> are the only adjustments necessary
Not very true.
Rotsa ruck.
>
> On May 11, 9:44 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On May 11, 7:49 pm, big...@backpacker.com wrote:
>
> > > It's really not that difficult to assemble a new bicycle. Some bike
> > > shop people make you think it's impossible. Bikesdirect.com bikes are
> > > comparable to any trek, giant or other made in China bike. Plus they
> > > are $3-400 less.
>
> > IME, this is 'largely true'. However, you must look carefully at the
> > spec, there are usually one or more "losers" in the spec (e.g., poor
> > choice of cassette, poor choice of rims/hubs, etc.), but they are not
> > deal breakers. Also, the cosmetics on the frames are not up to the
> > level of, for example, Trek. That said, if you choose carefully, you
> > can get a very good value from Bikes Direct. Plan on spending ~$50-100
> > for setup at a competent shop. Even then, a good value compared to the
> > brick and mortar alternatives. (IMO, YMMV, etc., etc., etc.)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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| | |
Date: 12 May 2007 16:41:26
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
|
>> confident enough to assesmble bike from carton.
>
> Very true. Keyword: Competent.
>
>
>> A book or onlineguide
>> will easily guide someone in adjusting gears and a brakes which really
>> are the only adjustments necessary
>
>
> Not very true.
>
> Rotsa ruck.
Some people have an intuitive feel for things mechanical, and some don't.
Intelligence doesn't seem to be the issue. Books and web references are
great for those who do well getting their hands dirty, but there are some
for whom just changing a tire becomes a challenging task. I don't think
there's reason to belittle such people, but just accept it and recognize
that not everybody's the same.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote in message
news:1178987883.182342.253210@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On May 12, 7:17 am, big...@backpacker.com wrote:
>> A $50-100 "set up " is hardly necessary for someone who is competent/
>> confident enough to assesmble bike from carton.
>
> Very true. Keyword: Competent.
>
>
>> A book or onlineguide
>> will easily guide someone in adjusting gears and a brakes which really
>> are the only adjustments necessary
>
>
> Not very true.
>
> Rotsa ruck.
>
>
>
>>
>> On May 11, 9:44 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>>
>>
>>
>> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>> > On May 11, 7:49 pm, big...@backpacker.com wrote:
>>
>> > > It's really not that difficult to assemble a new bicycle. Some bike
>> > > shop people make you think it's impossible. Bikesdirect.com bikes
>> > > are
>> > > comparable to any trek, giant or other made in China bike. Plus they
>> > > are $3-400 less.
>>
>> > IME, this is 'largely true'. However, you must look carefully at the
>> > spec, there are usually one or more "losers" in the spec (e.g., poor
>> > choice of cassette, poor choice of rims/hubs, etc.), but they are not
>> > deal breakers. Also, the cosmetics on the frames are not up to the
>> > level of, for example, Trek. That said, if you choose carefully, you
>> > can get a very good value from Bikes Direct. Plan on spending ~$50-100
>> > for setup at a competent shop. Even then, a good value compared to the
>> > brick and mortar alternatives. (IMO, YMMV, etc., etc., etc.)- Hide
>> > quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
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Date: 12 May 2007 05:17:16
From:
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
|
A $50-100 "set up " is hardly necessary for someone who is competent/
confident enough to assesmble bike from carton. A book or onlineguide
will easily guide someone in adjusting gears and a brakes which really
are the only adjustments necessary
On May 11, 9:44 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On May 11, 7:49 pm, big...@backpacker.com wrote:
>
> > It's really not that difficult to assemble a new bicycle. Some bike
> > shop people make you think it's impossible. Bikesdirect.com bikes are
> > comparable to any trek, giant or other made in China bike. Plus they
> > are $3-400 less.
>
> IME, this is 'largely true'. However, you must look carefully at the
> spec, there are usually one or more "losers" in the spec (e.g., poor
> choice of cassette, poor choice of rims/hubs, etc.), but they are not
> deal breakers. Also, the cosmetics on the frames are not up to the
> level of, for example, Trek. That said, if you choose carefully, you
> can get a very good value from Bikes Direct. Plan on spending ~$50-100
> for setup at a competent shop. Even then, a good value compared to the
> brick and mortar alternatives. (IMO, YMMV, etc., etc., etc.)
|
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Date: 12 May 2007 04:08:56
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
On May 11, 11:59 pm, "Mike Kruger" <Mik...@mouse-potato.com > wrote:
> John Everett wrote:
> > On 9 May 2007 06:03:08 -0700, Ozark Bicycle
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> >> On May 9, 7:10 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >>> Roger Zoul wrote:
> >>>> As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's
> >>>> better to deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal
> >>>> and you know how to do your own work.
>
> >>> If you go just by what comparably equipped Dura-Ace carbon fiber
> >>> frame bicycles go for then it's a very good deal. The questions are
> >>> where the frame came from and how good is it, as well as how well
> >>> the assembly and tuning was done.
>
> >>> The "Cadillac" name, probably lessens the ability of the vendor to
> >>> charge a premium price.
>
> >> The "Cadillac" name was likely carefully chosen for the intended
> >> market......be that choice correct or not is another matter.
>
> > See:http://www.cadillacbicycles.com/us_index.html
>
> > The model in question is the ERT1.
>
> The small print says these are the same people who bring us "Kent" bicycles
> sold in mass merchandisers.
>
> They are just importing these, trying to make a buck.
Damn! I keep forgetting that Specialized, Trek, etc., are all non-
profit corporations operating solely for the public good.
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Date: 11 May 2007 18:44:36
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
|
On May 11, 7:49 pm, big...@backpacker.com wrote:
> It's really not that difficult to assemble a new bicycle. Some bike
> shop people make you think it's impossible. Bikesdirect.com bikes are
> comparable to any trek, giant or other made in China bike. Plus they
> are $3-400 less.
>
IME, this is 'largely true'. However, you must look carefully at the
spec, there are usually one or more "losers" in the spec (e.g., poor
choice of cassette, poor choice of rims/hubs, etc.), but they are not
deal breakers. Also, the cosmetics on the frames are not up to the
level of, for example, Trek. That said, if you choose carefully, you
can get a very good value from Bikes Direct. Plan on spending ~$50-100
for setup at a competent shop. Even then, a good value compared to the
brick and mortar alternatives. (IMO, YMMV, etc., etc., etc.)
|
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Date: 11 May 2007 17:49:13
From:
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
|
It's really not that difficult to assemble a new bicycle. Some bike
shop people make you think it's impossible. Bikesdirect.com bikes are
comparable to any trek, giant or other made in China bike. Plus they
are $3-400 less.
On May 11, 12:51 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1178856225.746397.210...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 10, 5:33 pm, "victor....@gmail.com" <victor....@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On May 9, 2:40 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > In article <1178732480.253954.281...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > "victor....@gmail.com" <victor....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > ... "scattante" means "releasing". I think Performance would do
> > > > > well to retire their Scattante brand from their absorption of Supergo
> > > > > and maybe stick with Tirreno for their house brand bikes. At least
> > > > > Tirreno sounds bike-racy and doesn't obviously sound like a bad name
> > > > > for a product, any product, other than maybe a laxative.
>
> > > > They're connected with Nashbar, right? I want them to use Nashbar's
> > > > "Frame/Fram-ay/X" generic bike branding.
>
> > > Yep, it's the PerfBarGo empire. If they buy JensonUSA, they could be
> > > PerfBarGoUSA. Or if they get Speedgoat next, PerfBarGoat.
>
> > > > Just bought an "X" frame myself. It is sloping tube geometry (odd for a
> > > > cross frame, but not hopeless) but otherwise seems fine.
>
> > > I know it's not Nashbar's brand, but I'm not sure how good sounding a
> > > name "Iron Horse" (sounds heavy) is for the road bike I bought from
> > > Nashbar a couple of months ago. It's generic Al+C rear stays, but
> > > rides real nice (the only problems so far being the stock San Marco
> > > SKN saddle having out of whack rails and the seat post bottle cage
> > > mount being higher than I'd want--thank goodness for the adjustable
> > > Velocity VeloCage!).
>
> > > As for who's buying Dura-Ace-equipped CF bikes from Costco, I'd guess
> > > folks who like their unconditional satisfaction guarantee. I suppose
> > > you could get a generic CF bike and a similar guarantee from
> > > Performance, but returning it to Costco is probably a lot easier for
> > > most people since there are a lot more Costco stores than Performance
> > > stores, so you're less likely to need to ship it back at ~$70 a pop
> > > via UPS.
>
> > > Folks looking to strip it for parts and don't care about the frame can
> > > do much better at other mail order places (gotta love that Record
> > > Carbon equipped bike from you know who where you can get a $200 rebate
> > > if you send back everything but the Campy parts to them :).
>
> > For those who haven't discovered this little scheme yet:
> >http://tinyurl.com/yvtgjs
>
> > I wonder how long this particular "end around" will last (?).
>
> Oh wow... $1700 including the bike :).
>
> But seriously, $200 is nice, but I think I'd just keep those bits as
> cheap spares. I mean, even Vuelta XRP wheels are worth $200.
>
> I wonder about this stuff. Is there really that much mechanical know-how
> in the market that there's a whole raft of bike buyers happy to do their
> own final assembly?
>
> I'd gladly put myself in that category, and I hang around with people
> like that, but I assumed we were the freaks.
>
> This is one reason why I always feel a little ambivalent about local
> bike shops. I patronize them for lots of my small-parts business, but
> because I'm the kind of person who's happy to take home a bare frame
> from the post office and work from there, mail order is the value leader
> for me. Meanwhile, though, I recommend to most of the people I know that
> they stop by their LBS, because for most people, that's where bike setup
> should be done, I'm pretty sure.
>
> On the other hand, what it says about my psyche that I've basically
> taken on the process of becoming a full-service bike repair facility as
> a hobby is something I'd rather not contemplate closely.
>
> Well, I shall. The fun of it is in doing the things that fall outside of
> the parameters of normalcy, but for which the hourly rate for doing it
> would be prohibitive. One becomes a sort of consulting mechanic for
> friends, getting to pick the fun-sounding projects (turn a smallish
> rigid MTB into a CX bike for a sub-5' rider? Sure!)
>
> Doing it my way, I get to make 7-speed BMX bikes, and then switch them
> back to normal BMXes when the time comes.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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| | |
Date: 12 May 2007 16:20:59
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
|
> It's really not that difficult to assemble a new bicycle. Some bike
> shop people make you think it's impossible. Bikesdirect.com bikes are
> comparable to any trek, giant or other made in China bike. Plus they
> are $3-400 less.
I guess it depends upon both how skilled and picky you are. We see quite a
few such bikes come in through our doors, "assembled" by their owners and in
need of a lot more "assembly." Such bikes don't have properly-built wheels
(all the info about what makes a good vs not-so-good wheel is readily
available in this newsgroup so I won't go into the details here), cables
will be strung but not greased, housing ends not prepped, and the frame?
Some people here believe a frame is a frame is a frame. This is simply not
true. The major bike companies in China will build down to the
lowest-possible level spec'd. That means, if you don't spec EVERYTHING
exactly so, you'll get something that might have pretty paint but what's
under the surface might be poorly aligned or not-properly heat treated etc.
The company whose name goes on the bike pays for EVERYTHING because
otherwise you get... you can imagine. There is no sense of pride in building
to a standard base spec and going from there. I know this from the
experiences of both a Morgan Hill and Waterloo WI bike company. They learned
they need to have one of their own employees actually on-site to keep an eye
on things, and even then, we see things slip by once in a while.
Does the typical consumer buying a bike cheap on the 'net know to look for
such things? No. Do they have a baseline reference point for comparison? No.
Do they have leverage with the manufacturer to get things taken care of,
*and* the threat of loss of significant business if they don't? No.
To say a Bikesdirect.com bike is comparable to any Trek, Giant etc., is
misleading to say the least. A bike can come from the same factory and be
extremely different in quality and utility.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
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| |
Date: 11 May 2007 13:20:43
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
On May 11, 1:40 pm, sally <s...@sally.com > wrote:
> Werehatrack <raul...@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote innews:8tc9439sbe3judo59dtalaidrjvu54islj@4ax.com:
>
> > The "brand name" given is Cadillac. Does anyone besides me suspect
> > that this is a Taiwanese-made or Chinese-made bike that's being
> > flogged by Kent under their license with General Motors?
>
> Of course they are made in Taiwan, probably by one of the generic
> manufacturers like Martek.
>
> The frames are probably fine, but the one-size-fits-all sizing is silly.
If you go to the Cadillac/Kent website, you'll see that particular
bike comes in 4 or 5 sizes. The 'one size' thing is a Costco
purchasing/inventory decision. It has nothing to do with the product,
per se.
|
| |
Date: 11 May 2007 10:49:06
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
On May 11, 1:21 pm, Werehatrack <raul...@earthWEEDSlink.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 09 May 2007 03:19:46 -0700, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com>
> may have said:
>
> >I got my _Costco Connection_ magazine in the mail and noticed that
> >Costco.com has really expanded their bicycle line. I wouldn't have
> >expected to be able to buy a 17 pound full carbon frame bike, with
> >Dura-Ace components from Costco (and I wouldn't) but is anyone actually
> >ordering a $2300 bicycle from Costco?
>
> >"http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11215925"
>
> >AFAIK, you can't even buy a carbon-frame Trek with Dura-Ace, you have to
> >go to their Lemond line for the higher level components.
>
> The "brand name" given is Cadillac. Does anyone besides me suspect
> that this is a Taiwanese-made or Chinese-made bike that's being
> flogged by Kent under their license with General Motors?
Of course they are. Made in the same plastic frame factory(s) that
make plastic frames sold under other names. You might even find some
with rather well-known names and sold in the LBS.
|
| |
Date: 11 May 2007 12:21:30
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
On Wed, 09 May 2007 03:19:46 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com >
may have said:
>I got my _Costco Connection_ magazine in the mail and noticed that
>Costco.com has really expanded their bicycle line. I wouldn't have
>expected to be able to buy a 17 pound full carbon frame bike, with
>Dura-Ace components from Costco (and I wouldn't) but is anyone actually
>ordering a $2300 bicycle from Costco?
>
>"http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11215925"
>
>AFAIK, you can't even buy a carbon-frame Trek with Dura-Ace, you have to
>go to their Lemond line for the higher level components.
The "brand name" given is Cadillac. Does anyone besides me suspect
that this is a Taiwanese-made or Chinese-made bike that's being
flogged by Kent under their license with General Motors?
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
| | |
Date: 11 May 2007 18:40:10
From: sally
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
Werehatrack <rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net > wrote in
news:8tc9439sbe3judo59dtalaidrjvu54islj@4ax.com:
> The "brand name" given is Cadillac. Does anyone besides me suspect
> that this is a Taiwanese-made or Chinese-made bike that's being
> flogged by Kent under their license with General Motors?
Of course they are made in Taiwan, probably by one of the generic
manufacturers like Martek.
The frames are probably fine, but the one-size-fits-all sizing is silly.
|
| | | |
Date: 11 May 2007 15:47:23
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
sally wrote:
> Werehatrack <rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote in
> news:8tc9439sbe3judo59dtalaidrjvu54islj@4ax.com:
>> The "brand name" given is Cadillac. Does anyone besides me suspect
>> that this is a Taiwanese-made or Chinese-made bike that's being
>> flogged by Kent under their license with General Motors?
>
> Of course they are made in Taiwan, probably by one of the generic
> manufacturers like Martek.
Almost certainly made in China, not in Taiwan. Taiwan is now high-end,
not low-end.
|
| |
Date: 11 May 2007 07:07:52
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
|
On May 10, 11:51 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1178856225.746397.210...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 10, 5:33 pm, "victor....@gmail.com" <victor....@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On May 9, 2:40 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > In article <1178732480.253954.281...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > "victor....@gmail.com" <victor....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > ... "scattante" means "releasing". I think Performance would do
> > > > > well to retire their Scattante brand from their absorption of Supergo
> > > > > and maybe stick with Tirreno for their house brand bikes. At least
> > > > > Tirreno sounds bike-racy and doesn't obviously sound like a bad name
> > > > > for a product, any product, other than maybe a laxative.
>
> > > > They're connected with Nashbar, right? I want them to use Nashbar's
> > > > "Frame/Fram-ay/X" generic bike branding.
>
> > > Yep, it's the PerfBarGo empire. If they buy JensonUSA, they could be
> > > PerfBarGoUSA. Or if they get Speedgoat next, PerfBarGoat.
>
> > > > Just bought an "X" frame myself. It is sloping tube geometry (odd for a
> > > > cross frame, but not hopeless) but otherwise seems fine.
>
> > > I know it's not Nashbar's brand, but I'm not sure how good sounding a
> > > name "Iron Horse" (sounds heavy) is for the road bike I bought from
> > > Nashbar a couple of months ago. It's generic Al+C rear stays, but
> > > rides real nice (the only problems so far being the stock San Marco
> > > SKN saddle having out of whack rails and the seat post bottle cage
> > > mount being higher than I'd want--thank goodness for the adjustable
> > > Velocity VeloCage!).
>
> > > As for who's buying Dura-Ace-equipped CF bikes from Costco, I'd guess
> > > folks who like their unconditional satisfaction guarantee. I suppose
> > > you could get a generic CF bike and a similar guarantee from
> > > Performance, but returning it to Costco is probably a lot easier for
> > > most people since there are a lot more Costco stores than Performance
> > > stores, so you're less likely to need to ship it back at ~$70 a pop
> > > via UPS.
>
> > > Folks looking to strip it for parts and don't care about the frame can
> > > do much better at other mail order places (gotta love that Record
> > > Carbon equipped bike from you know who where you can get a $200 rebate
> > > if you send back everything but the Campy parts to them :).
>
> > For those who haven't discovered this little scheme yet:
> >http://tinyurl.com/yvtgjs
>
> > I wonder how long this particular "end around" will last (?).
>
> Oh wow... $1700 including the bike :).
>
> But seriously, $200 is nice, but I think I'd just keep those bits as
> cheap spares. I mean, even Vuelta XRP wheels are worth $200.
And, when you deduct the cost of return shipping, the net rebate is <
$150. I gotta believe the frame, wheels, etc., will fetch more than
that.
Can we expect ePay to be inundated with these frames/forks and the
other parts? :)
Perhaps the $200 'rebate' offer is a kind of guarantee that resellers
won't be stuck with stuff they can't sell (i.e., the non-Campy
parts) ?
>
> I wonder about this stuff. Is there really that much mechanical know-how
> in the market that there's a whole raft of bike buyers happy to do their
> own final assembly?
IMO, this is pretty clearly a scheme to buy the Campy parts cheaply
(some OEM deal??) and then resell them without running afoul of the
*letter* of the OEM contract. I doubt this will last long. OTOH, there
may already be alot of it in the pipeline.
At the other end, I suspect most of this stuff will be purchased for
resale. We'll see.
|
| |
Date: 10 May 2007 21:03:45
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
|
On May 10, 5:33 pm, "victor....@gmail.com" <victor....@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On May 9, 2:40 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > In article <1178732480.253954.281...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > "victor....@gmail.com" <victor....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > ... "scattante" means "releasing". I think Performance would do
> > > well to retire their Scattante brand from their absorption of Supergo
> > > and maybe stick with Tirreno for their house brand bikes. At least
> > > Tirreno sounds bike-racy and doesn't obviously sound like a bad name
> > > for a product, any product, other than maybe a laxative.
>
> > They're connected with Nashbar, right? I want them to use Nashbar's
> > "Frame/Fram-ay/X" generic bike branding.
>
> Yep, it's the PerfBarGo empire. If they buy JensonUSA, they could be
> PerfBarGoUSA. Or if they get Speedgoat next, PerfBarGoat.
>
> > Just bought an "X" frame myself. It is sloping tube geometry (odd for a
> > cross frame, but not hopeless) but otherwise seems fine.
>
> I know it's not Nashbar's brand, but I'm not sure how good sounding a
> name "Iron Horse" (sounds heavy) is for the road bike I bought from
> Nashbar a couple of months ago. It's generic Al+C rear stays, but
> rides real nice (the only problems so far being the stock San Marco
> SKN saddle having out of whack rails and the seat post bottle cage
> mount being higher than I'd want--thank goodness for the adjustable
> Velocity VeloCage!).
>
> As for who's buying Dura-Ace-equipped CF bikes from Costco, I'd guess
> folks who like their unconditional satisfaction guarantee. I suppose
> you could get a generic CF bike and a similar guarantee from
> Performance, but returning it to Costco is probably a lot easier for
> most people since there are a lot more Costco stores than Performance
> stores, so you're less likely to need to ship it back at ~$70 a pop
> via UPS.
>
> Folks looking to strip it for parts and don't care about the frame can
> do much better at other mail order places (gotta love that Record
> Carbon equipped bike from you know who where you can get a $200 rebate
> if you send back everything but the Campy parts to them :).
For those who haven't discovered this little scheme yet:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yvtgjs
or
http://tinyurl.com/yvtgjs
I wonder how long this particular "end around" will last (?).
|
| | |
Date: 11 May 2007 04:51:53
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Get yer Record Carbon stuff cheap!
|
In article <1178856225.746397.210690@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On May 10, 5:33 pm, "victor....@gmail.com" <victor....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On May 9, 2:40 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <1178732480.253954.281...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > "victor....@gmail.com" <victor....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > ... "scattante" means "releasing". I think Performance would do
> > > > well to retire their Scattante brand from their absorption of Supergo
> > > > and maybe stick with Tirreno for their house brand bikes. At least
> > > > Tirreno sounds bike-racy and doesn't obviously sound like a bad name
> > > > for a product, any product, other than maybe a laxative.
> >
> > > They're connected with Nashbar, right? I want them to use Nashbar's
> > > "Frame/Fram-ay/X" generic bike branding.
> >
> > Yep, it's the PerfBarGo empire. If they buy JensonUSA, they could be
> > PerfBarGoUSA. Or if they get Speedgoat next, PerfBarGoat.
> >
> > > Just bought an "X" frame myself. It is sloping tube geometry (odd for a
> > > cross frame, but not hopeless) but otherwise seems fine.
> >
> > I know it's not Nashbar's brand, but I'm not sure how good sounding a
> > name "Iron Horse" (sounds heavy) is for the road bike I bought from
> > Nashbar a couple of months ago. It's generic Al+C rear stays, but
> > rides real nice (the only problems so far being the stock San Marco
> > SKN saddle having out of whack rails and the seat post bottle cage
> > mount being higher than I'd want--thank goodness for the adjustable
> > Velocity VeloCage!).
> >
> > As for who's buying Dura-Ace-equipped CF bikes from Costco, I'd guess
> > folks who like their unconditional satisfaction guarantee. I suppose
> > you could get a generic CF bike and a similar guarantee from
> > Performance, but returning it to Costco is probably a lot easier for
> > most people since there are a lot more Costco stores than Performance
> > stores, so you're less likely to need to ship it back at ~$70 a pop
> > via UPS.
> >
> > Folks looking to strip it for parts and don't care about the frame can
> > do much better at other mail order places (gotta love that Record
> > Carbon equipped bike from you know who where you can get a $200 rebate
> > if you send back everything but the Campy parts to them :).
>
> For those who haven't discovered this little scheme yet:
> http://tinyurl.com/yvtgjs
>
> I wonder how long this particular "end around" will last (?).
Oh wow... $1700 including the bike :).
But seriously, $200 is nice, but I think I'd just keep those bits as
cheap spares. I mean, even Vuelta XRP wheels are worth $200.
I wonder about this stuff. Is there really that much mechanical know-how
in the market that there's a whole raft of bike buyers happy to do their
own final assembly?
I'd gladly put myself in that category, and I hang around with people
like that, but I assumed we were the freaks.
This is one reason why I always feel a little ambivalent about local
bike shops. I patronize them for lots of my small-parts business, but
because I'm the kind of person who's happy to take home a bare frame
from the post office and work from there, mail order is the value leader
for me. Meanwhile, though, I recommend to most of the people I know that
they stop by their LBS, because for most people, that's where bike setup
should be done, I'm pretty sure.
On the other hand, what it says about my psyche that I've basically
taken on the process of becoming a full-service bike repair facility as
a hobby is something I'd rather not contemplate closely.
Well, I shall. The fun of it is in doing the things that fall outside of
the parameters of normalcy, but for which the hourly rate for doing it
would be prohibitive. One becomes a sort of consulting mechanic for
friends, getting to pick the fun-sounding projects (turn a smallish
rigid MTB into a CX bike for a sub-5' rider? Sure!)
Doing it my way, I get to make 7-speed BMX bikes, and then switch them
back to normal BMXes when the time comes.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| |
Date: 10 May 2007 15:33:18
From: victor.kan@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
On May 9, 2:40 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1178732480.253954.281...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> "victor....@gmail.com" <victor....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > ... "scattante" means "releasing". I think Performance would do
> > well to retire their Scattante brand from their absorption of Supergo
> > and maybe stick with Tirreno for their house brand bikes. At least
> > Tirreno sounds bike-racy and doesn't obviously sound like a bad name
> > for a product, any product, other than maybe a laxative.
>
> They're connected with Nashbar, right? I want them to use Nashbar's
> "Frame/Fram-ay/X" generic bike branding.
Yep, it's the PerfBarGo empire. If they buy JensonUSA, they could be
PerfBarGoUSA. Or if they get Speedgoat next, PerfBarGoat.
> Just bought an "X" frame myself. It is sloping tube geometry (odd for a
> cross frame, but not hopeless) but otherwise seems fine.
I know it's not Nashbar's brand, but I'm not sure how good sounding a
name "Iron Horse" (sounds heavy) is for the road bike I bought from
Nashbar a couple of months ago. It's generic Al+C rear stays, but
rides real nice (the only problems so far being the stock San Marco
SKN saddle having out of whack rails and the seat post bottle cage
mount being higher than I'd want--thank goodness for the adjustable
Velocity VeloCage!).
As for who's buying Dura-Ace-equipped CF bikes from Costco, I'd guess
folks who like their unconditional satisfaction guarantee. I suppose
you could get a generic CF bike and a similar guarantee from
Performance, but returning it to Costco is probably a lot easier for
most people since there are a lot more Costco stores than Performance
stores, so you're less likely to need to ship it back at ~$70 a pop
via UPS.
Folks looking to strip it for parts and don't care about the frame can
do much better at other mail order places (gotta love that Record
Carbon equipped bike from you know who where you can get a $200 rebate
if you send back everything but the Campy parts to them :).
|
| |
Date: 09 May 2007 10:41:20
From: victor.kan@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
On May 9, 8:35 am, "Bruce Gilbert" <bhgilb...@hal-pc.org > wrote:
> For all of the cheapskates out there, its all in the name. In Greek, what
> does scatta mean? Any hunters out there looking for elk scats? One of the
> girls that rides with us has a Scattante (Supergo's brand) When she showed
> up the first time for a group ride, some of the folks that spoke Greek
> nearly fell off their bikes laughing.
I don't know about scatta in Greek, but maybe those Greek speakers
also know Italian?
http://translate.google.com/translate_t
says that "scattante" means "releasing". I think Performance would do
well to retire their Scattante brand from their absorption of Supergo
and maybe stick with Tirreno for their house brand bikes. At least
Tirreno sounds bike-racy and doesn't obviously sound like a bad name
for a product, any product, other than maybe a laxative.
|
| | |
Date: 09 May 2007 18:40:20
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
In article <1178732480.253954.281090@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
"victor.kan@gmail.com" <victor.kan@gmail.com > wrote:
> On May 9, 8:35 am, "Bruce Gilbert" <bhgilb...@hal-pc.org> wrote:
> > For all of the cheapskates out there, its all in the name. In Greek, what
> > does scatta mean? Any hunters out there looking for elk scats? One of the
> > girls that rides with us has a Scattante (Supergo's brand) When she showed
> > up the first time for a group ride, some of the folks that spoke Greek
> > nearly fell off their bikes laughing.
>
> I don't know about scatta in Greek, but maybe those Greek speakers
> also know Italian?
>
> http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
> says that "scattante" means "releasing". I think Performance would do
> well to retire their Scattante brand from their absorption of Supergo
> and maybe stick with Tirreno for their house brand bikes. At least
> Tirreno sounds bike-racy and doesn't obviously sound like a bad name
> for a product, any product, other than maybe a laxative.
They're connected with Nashbar, right? I want them to use Nashbar's
"Frame/Fram-ay/X" generic bike branding.
Just bought an "X" frame myself. It is sloping tube geometry (odd for a
cross frame, but not hopeless) but otherwise seems fine.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | |
Date: 10 May 2007 19:10:14
From: Bruce Gilbert
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote in message
news:rcousine-75A6E4.11400909052007@news.telus.net...
> In article <1178732480.253954.281090@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> "victor.kan@gmail.com" <victor.kan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 9, 8:35 am, "Bruce Gilbert" <bhgilb...@hal-pc.org> wrote:
> > > For all of the cheapskates out there, its all in the name. In Greek,
what
> > > does scatta mean? Any hunters out there looking for elk scats? One of
the
> > > girls that rides with us has a Scattante (Supergo's brand) When she
showed
> > > up the first time for a group ride, some of the folks that spoke Greek
> > > nearly fell off their bikes laughing.
> >
> > I don't know about scatta in Greek, but maybe those Greek speakers
> > also know Italian?
> >
> > http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >
> > says that "scattante" means "releasing". I think Performance would do
> > well to retire their Scattante brand from their absorption of Supergo
> > and maybe stick with Tirreno for their house brand bikes. At least
> > Tirreno sounds bike-racy and doesn't obviously sound like a bad name
> > for a product, any product, other than maybe a laxative.
>
Scatta in Greek means shit. As a practical fact that you can use right now,
hunters look for scats from their prey to track them....
Now you can see why the bike name was so funny to the Greek speaking riders
that afternoon.
Bruce
|
| |
Date: 09 May 2007 10:33:39
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
On May 9, 10:43 am, John Everett
<jevere...@sbcglobal.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net > wrote:
> On 9 May 2007 06:03:08 -0700, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> >On May 9, 7:10 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> Roger Zoul wrote:
> >> > As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's better to
> >> > deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal and you know how to do
> >> > your own work.
>
> >> If you go just by what comparably equipped Dura-Ace carbon fiber frame
> >> bicycles go for then it's a very good deal. The questions are where the
> >> frame came from and how good is it, as well as how well the assembly and
> >> tuning was done.
>
> >> The "Cadillac" name, probably lessens the ability of the vendor to
> >> charge a premium price.
>
> >The "Cadillac" name was likely carefully chosen for the intended
> >market......be that choice correct or not is another matter.
>
> See:http://www.cadillacbicycles.com/us_index.html
>
> The model in question is the ERT1.
>
I guess I'm missing your point (?).
My point was in choosing the name for marketing purposes to an
intended market. IMO, "Cadillac" carries at least as many negatives as
positives, but not everyone will see it that way. Obviously, the
marketing is aimed at the upper end of cycling newbies. Nothing like a
"Carbon Fiber" bike to go with that CF racquet and those CF shaft golf
clubs stowed in the trunk of that Caddy STS. ;-)
BTW, I notice a fairly long list of bike shops on the dealer list. And
some sizes in this one and a lesser model are sold out. Someone is
buying 'em.
|
| |
Date: 09 May 2007 06:03:08
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
On May 9, 7:10 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Roger Zoul wrote:
> > As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's better to
> > deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal and you know how to do
> > your own work.
>
> If you go just by what comparably equipped Dura-Ace carbon fiber frame
> bicycles go for then it's a very good deal. The questions are where the
> frame came from and how good is it, as well as how well the assembly and
> tuning was done.
>
> The "Cadillac" name, probably lessens the ability of the vendor to
> charge a premium price.
The "Cadillac" name was likely carefully chosen for the intended
market......be that choice correct or not is another matter.
|
| | |
Date: 09 May 2007 15:43:01
From: John Everett
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
On 9 May 2007 06:03:08 -0700, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
>On May 9, 7:10 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>> > As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's better to
>> > deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal and you know how to do
>> > your own work.
>>
>> If you go just by what comparably equipped Dura-Ace carbon fiber frame
>> bicycles go for then it's a very good deal. The questions are where the
>> frame came from and how good is it, as well as how well the assembly and
>> tuning was done.
>>
>> The "Cadillac" name, probably lessens the ability of the vendor to
>> charge a premium price.
>
>The "Cadillac" name was likely carefully chosen for the intended
>market......be that choice correct or not is another matter.
See: http://www.cadillacbicycles.com/us_index.html
The model in question is the ERT1.
--
jeverett3<AT >sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)
|
| | | |
Date: 12 May 2007 04:59:53
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
John Everett wrote:
> On 9 May 2007 06:03:08 -0700, Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
>> On May 9, 7:10 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>>> As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's
>>>> better to deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal
>>>> and you know how to do your own work.
>>>
>>> If you go just by what comparably equipped Dura-Ace carbon fiber
>>> frame bicycles go for then it's a very good deal. The questions are
>>> where the frame came from and how good is it, as well as how well
>>> the assembly and tuning was done.
>>>
>>> The "Cadillac" name, probably lessens the ability of the vendor to
>>> charge a premium price.
>>
>> The "Cadillac" name was likely carefully chosen for the intended
>> market......be that choice correct or not is another matter.
>
> See: http://www.cadillacbicycles.com/us_index.html
>
> The model in question is the ERT1.
The small print says these are the same people who bring us "Kent" bicycles
sold in mass merchandisers.
They are just importing these, trying to make a buck. What surprising is
that GM would license the name. Cadillac is a valuable brand name and you
wouldn't want just anything sharing that brand name. The risk would hardly
seem worth the revenue.
|
| | | | |
Date: 11 May 2007 22:18:07
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
Mike Kruger wrote:
> The small print says these are the same people who bring us "Kent" bicycles
> sold in mass merchandisers.
>
> They are just importing these, trying to make a buck.
LOL, just like every other major bicycle manufacturer is importing bikes
from China to make a buck.
|
| |
Date: 09 May 2007 07:57:05
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
SMS wrote:
:: I got my _Costco Connection_ magazine in the mail and noticed that
:: Costco.com has really expanded their bicycle line. I wouldn't have
:: expected to be able to buy a 17 pound full carbon frame bike, with
:: Dura-Ace components from Costco (and I wouldn't) but is anyone
:: actually ordering a $2300 bicycle from Costco?
::
:: "http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11215925"
::
:: AFAIK, you can't even buy a carbon-frame Trek with Dura-Ace, you
:: have to go to their Lemond line for the higher level components.
Given that they are plenty of people who have disposable income at that
level who might like to think that getting fit and having a nice bike go
hand-in-hand....it seems like a reasonable idea to try out.
As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's better to
deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal and you know how to do
your own work.
|
| | |
Date: 09 May 2007 08:10:55
From: Just A User
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
Roger Zoul wrote:
> SMS wrote:
> :: I got my _Costco Connection_ magazine in the mail and noticed that
> :: Costco.com has really expanded their bicycle line. I wouldn't have
> :: expected to be able to buy a 17 pound full carbon frame bike, with
> :: Dura-Ace components from Costco (and I wouldn't) but is anyone
> :: actually ordering a $2300 bicycle from Costco?
> ::
> :: "http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11215925"
> ::
> :: AFAIK, you can't even buy a carbon-frame Trek with Dura-Ace, you
> :: have to go to their Lemond line for the higher level components.
>
> Given that they are plenty of people who have disposable income at that
> level who might like to think that getting fit and having a nice bike go
> hand-in-hand....it seems like a reasonable idea to try out.
>
> As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's better to
> deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal and you know how to do
> your own work.
>
>
Buying from costco is probably at about the same level as buying from
some online shop. Of course many brands of quality bikes don't allow
their bikes to be sold online and if you do buy one of the ones that
don't allow internet sales you more than likely don't get the warranty
that comes with the bike if you buy from a LBS.
Ken
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| | | |
Date: 09 May 2007 05:56:52
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
Just A User wrote:
> Buying from costco is probably at about the same level as buying from
> some online shop. Of course many brands of quality bikes don't allow
> their bikes to be sold online and if you do buy one of the ones that
> don't allow internet sales you more than likely don't get the warranty
> that comes with the bike if you buy from a LBS.
The warranty depends on whether it's a gray market product or not. For
example, the gray market Cannondale's that Costco used to sell had no
warranty from Cannondale, but it wasn't because they weren't sold
through an LBS, it was because they were gray market products. If Costco
had somehow managed to buy some U.S. Cannondale models through some
channel, the warranty would apply, but the chance of this is small
because Cannondale tightly controls distribution in the U.S..
It's a distinction worth making, because any attempt to deny warranty
service for a product intended for sale in the U.S., but not sold
through a so-called "authorized dealer" is illegal.
One difference with Costco and an online shop is that you can return any
unsatisfactory product to a local Costco for a no-questions-asked refund.
Most of the bikes that Costco.com sells appear to fall into the
sporting-goods store type category, a step above Target or Wal-Mart, but
below bike shop bikes.
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| | | |
Date: 09 May 2007 12:35:27
From: Bruce Gilbert
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
"Just A User" <ken@up-yours-spammer.net > wrote in message
news:eP2dneD8IoDCJ9zbnZ2dnUVZ_tWhnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Roger Zoul wrote:
> > SMS wrote:
> > :: I got my _Costco Connection_ magazine in the mail and noticed that
> > :: Costco.com has really expanded their bicycle line. I wouldn't have
> > :: expected to be able to buy a 17 pound full carbon frame bike, with
> > :: Dura-Ace components from Costco (and I wouldn't) but is anyone
> > :: actually ordering a $2300 bicycle from Costco?
> > ::
> > :: "http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11215925"
> > ::
> > :: AFAIK, you can't even buy a carbon-frame Trek with Dura-Ace, you
> > :: have to go to their Lemond line for the higher level components.
> >
> > Given that they are plenty of people who have disposable income at that
> > level who might like to think that getting fit and having a nice bike go
> > hand-in-hand....it seems like a reasonable idea to try out.
> >
> > As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's better
to
> > deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal and you know how
to do
> > your own work.
> >
> >
> Buying from costco is probably at about the same level as buying from
> some online shop. Of course many brands of quality bikes don't allow
> their bikes to be sold online and if you do buy one of the ones that
> don't allow internet sales you more than likely don't get the warranty
> that comes with the bike if you buy from a LBS.
>
> Ken
We were near the Cadillac booth at a few shows. I got a pretty good look at
their stuff. It is not the type of product that the high end or racer
customer is going to really want. It is highly appealing to the new cyclist
looking for some sort of brand name they recognize in a sea of foreign
languages. From what I understand, the bike company is only licensing the
name from the car company. I have not seen a Cadillac pickup or SUV coming
with a bike as a promotion. I believe VW did that with Trek a while ago.
Didn't Costco sell Cannondale some years ago, or am I mistaken? There was
some furor about something like that, if I recall correctly.
We do some shopping at Costco. Next time I am there, I'll look for the bikes
and report what I see. It would be nice to see a properly built bike, but I
fear it will be a disappointment. Hopefully they won't pull the dirty trick
that Supergo used to . They had an instruction sheet in with their bikes
that told the buyer to take it to a local bike shop for final assembly and
tuning. I believe for a time they were suggesting $15 cost for the service.
I know a lot of shops that were really ticked off...
For all of the cheapskates out there, its all in the name. In Greek, what
does scatta mean? Any hunters out there looking for elk scats? One of the
girls that rides with us has a Scattante (Supergo's brand) When she showed
up the first time for a group ride, some of the folks that spoke Greek
nearly fell off their bikes laughing.
Bruce
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| | | | |
Date: 09 May 2007 16:44:47
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
> We were near the Cadillac booth at a few shows. I got a pretty good look
> at
> their stuff. It is not the type of product that the high end or racer
> customer is going to really want. It is highly appealing to the new
> cyclist
> looking for some sort of brand name they recognize in a sea of foreign
> languages.
I'll disagree on that one. I doubt very much that the customer that the name
"Cadillac" appeals to has a clue about components (Dura-Ace?) or even frame
materials. More likely they're going to be thinking "$2300 for a bike???!!!
What a rip. What makes a bike worth $2300? $1000 maybe, but $2300? It better
be gold-plated!"
Thankfully, if such a customer *is* interested in that bike, they don't have
to be concerned about whether it fits or not. Just one size, 55cm. Makes the
purchase a whole lot easier than going into a bike shop and getting confused
by all the sizes.
> From what I understand, the bike company is only licensing the
> name from the car company. I have not seen a Cadillac pickup or SUV coming
> with a bike as a promotion. I believe VW did that with Trek a while ago.
Sort of, but those bikes weren't sold, but rather given away as perks with
the cars.
> Didn't Costco sell Cannondale some years ago, or am I mistaken? There was
> some furor about something like that, if I recall correctly.
Costco's business model has evolved over the years. Back in the day, they
were evil, nasty, deceitful people who would try to get shipments redirected
by claiming they were buyers connected with authorized dealers of the
product. Cannondale and Oakley are two names familiar to cyclists that ended
up, temporarily, in Costco. It was a mess for Cannondale as Costco was
selling a technical product (not just requiring assembly, but sizing and,
have to say, Cannondales at the time weren't the greatest bikes in the world
in terms of everything working the way it should... things have improved
greatly since then) so customers would come into shops looking for help,
expecting that it wouldn't cost anything because, well, it was a Cannondale
and you were a dealer and it was a new bike... like I said, a mess.
> We do some shopping at Costco. Next time I am there, I'll look for the
> bikes
> and report what I see. It would be nice to see a properly built bike, but
> I
> fear it will be a disappointment. Hopefully they won't pull the dirty
> trick
> that Supergo used to . They had an instruction sheet in with their bikes
> that told the buyer to take it to a local bike shop for final assembly and
> tuning. I believe for a time they were suggesting $15 cost for the
> service.
> I know a lot of shops that were really ticked off...
We had an employee back in the day that worked for a Supergo store in LA. If
you brought in a bike for a tune-up, it came back to you 100% sparkling
clean. Cleaner than you can possibly imagine. So clean, in fact, that there
was no longer grease in the bearings. Yes, they actually had not just a
bath, but an actual dip tank they put bikes into. Amazing, but, according to
CF (the former employee) true.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | | | | |
Date: 10 May 2007 19:01:36
From: Bruce Gilbert
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
>> We had an employee back in the day that worked for a Supergo store in LA.
If
> you brought in a bike for a tune-up, it came back to you 100% sparkling
> clean. Cleaner than you can possibly imagine. So clean, in fact, that
there
> was no longer grease in the bearings. Yes, they actually had not just a
> bath, but an actual dip tank they put bikes into. Amazing, but, according
to
> CF (the former employee) true.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
Wow, what a great story! Reminds me of the scene with Vincent Price in House
of Wax...
Hey, who needs this lubrication crap anyway? LoL
Bruce
|
| | | | | |
Date: 09 May 2007 10:14:32
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> greatly since then) so customers would come into shops looking for help,
> expecting that it wouldn't cost anything because, well, it was a Cannondale
> and you were a dealer and it was a new bike... like I said, a mess.
How does it normally work if someone brings in a bike for warranty
service that was purchased at a shop that is a normal retailer for the
brand?
Is it like vehicles, where you can go to any dealer, and the
manufacturer pays the dealer for the parts and labor? Car dealers love
warranty work as they are well paid for it.
On occasion I've seen a sign on the door at your Los Altos store that
says that no service is available for bikes not purchased at your store,
because the service department is too busy. This is understandable, you
have to take care of your own customers first, but does this apply to
warranty work as well?
|
| | | | |
Date: 09 May 2007 11:11:36
From: dgk
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
On Wed, 09 May 2007 12:35:27 GMT, "Bruce Gilbert"
<bhgilbert@hal-pc.org > wrote:
>
>We were near the Cadillac booth at a few shows. I got a pretty good look at
>their stuff. It is not the type of product that the high end or racer
>customer is going to really want. It is highly appealing to the new cyclist
>looking for some sort of brand name they recognize in a sea of foreign
>languages. From what I understand, the bike company is only licensing the
>name from the car company. I have not seen a Cadillac pickup or SUV coming
>with a bike as a promotion. I believe VW did that with Trek a while ago.
>
Honda was doing that a year or so ago. Buy a car, get a Honda bike for
free. Pedal kind.
|
| | | | |
Date: 09 May 2007 06:12:51
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
Bruce Gilbert wrote:
> We were near the Cadillac booth at a few shows. I got a pretty good look at
> their stuff. It is not the type of product that the high end or racer
> customer is going to really want. It is highly appealing to the new cyclist
> looking for some sort of brand name they recognize in a sea of foreign
> languages. From what I understand, the bike company is only licensing the
> name from the car company. I have not seen a Cadillac pickup or SUV coming
> with a bike as a promotion. I believe VW did that with Trek a while ago.
Apparently Kent is the manufacturer. At least Cadillac Bicycles and Kent
Bicycles are located at the same address.
> Didn't Costco sell Cannondale some years ago, or am I mistaken? There was
> some furor about something like that, if I recall correctly.
Cannondale was upset. Costco found a distributor, in India IIRC, that
sold them the inventory. Since it was gray market, Cannondale could
refuse warranty service. However Costco doesn't really care about that,
they are happy to warranty the product themselves.
> We do some shopping at Costco. Next time I am there, I'll look for the bikes
> and report what I see. It would be nice to see a properly built bike, but I
> fear it will be a disappointment. Hopefully they won't pull the dirty trick
> that Supergo used to . They had an instruction sheet in with their bikes
> that told the buyer to take it to a local bike shop for final assembly and
> tuning. I believe for a time they were suggesting $15 cost for the service.
> I know a lot of shops that were really ticked off...
The physical stores are not selling the more expensive bicycles, only
online.
Isn't $15 enough? I paid $10 to have a bike assembled back in the
1970's. It shouldn't have gone up more than $5 in 35 years (just kidding).
|
| | | | | |
Date: 09 May 2007 18:37:57
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
In article <4641c8d7$0$27228$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com > wrote:
> Bruce Gilbert wrote:
>
> > We were near the Cadillac booth at a few shows. I got a pretty good look at
> > their stuff. It is not the type of product that the high end or racer
> > customer is going to really want. It is highly appealing to the new cyclist
> > looking for some sort of brand name they recognize in a sea of foreign
> > languages. From what I understand, the bike company is only licensing the
> > name from the car company. I have not seen a Cadillac pickup or SUV coming
> > with a bike as a promotion. I believe VW did that with Trek a while ago.
>
> Apparently Kent is the manufacturer. At least Cadillac Bicycles and Kent
> Bicycles are located at the same address.
They seem to be using the Cadillac name to add cachet to some mid-upper
market bikes, which are probably sold mainly online.
Given the one-size-available, I'd bet the Costco channel is being used
as a closeout outlet here. That's a common business for Costco.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | |
Date: 09 May 2007 09:00:06
From: Just A User
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
Bruce Gilbert wrote:
> "Just A User" <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote in message
> news:eP2dneD8IoDCJ9zbnZ2dnUVZ_tWhnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>> SMS wrote:
>>> :: I got my _Costco Connection_ magazine in the mail and noticed that
>>> :: Costco.com has really expanded their bicycle line. I wouldn't have
>>> :: expected to be able to buy a 17 pound full carbon frame bike, with
>>> :: Dura-Ace components from Costco (and I wouldn't) but is anyone
>>> :: actually ordering a $2300 bicycle from Costco?
>>> ::
>>> :: "http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11215925"
>>> ::
>>> :: AFAIK, you can't even buy a carbon-frame Trek with Dura-Ace, you
>>> :: have to go to their Lemond line for the higher level components.
>>>
>>> Given that they are plenty of people who have disposable income at that
>>> level who might like to think that getting fit and having a nice bike go
>>> hand-in-hand....it seems like a reasonable idea to try out.
>>>
>>> As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's better
> to
>>> deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal and you know how
> to do
>>> your own work.
>>>
>>>
>> Buying from costco is probably at about the same level as buying from
>> some online shop. Of course many brands of quality bikes don't allow
>> their bikes to be sold online and if you do buy one of the ones that
>> don't allow internet sales you more than likely don't get the warranty
>> that comes with the bike if you buy from a LBS.
>>
>> Ken
>
> We were near the Cadillac booth at a few shows. I got a pretty good look at
> their stuff. It is not the type of product that the high end or racer
> customer is going to really want. It is highly appealing to the new cyclist
> looking for some sort of brand name they recognize in a sea of foreign
> languages. From what I understand, the bike company is only licensing the
> name from the car company. I have not seen a Cadillac pickup or SUV coming
> with a bike as a promotion. I believe VW did that with Trek a while ago.
>
> Didn't Costco sell Cannondale some years ago, or am I mistaken? There was
> some furor about something like that, if I recall correctly.
>
> We do some shopping at Costco. Next time I am there, I'll look for the bikes
> and report what I see. It would be nice to see a properly built bike, but I
> fear it will be a disappointment. Hopefully they won't pull the dirty trick
> that Supergo used to . They had an instruction sheet in with their bikes
> that told the buyer to take it to a local bike shop for final assembly and
> tuning. I believe for a time they were suggesting $15 cost for the service.
> I know a lot of shops that were really ticked off...
>
> For all of the cheapskates out there, its all in the name. In Greek, what
> does scatta mean? Any hunters out there looking for elk scats? One of the
> girls that rides with us has a Scattante (Supergo's brand) When she showed
> up the first time for a group ride, some of the folks that spoke Greek
> nearly fell off their bikes laughing.
>
> Bruce
>
>
Scattante is also sold by performance. I have bought lots of things from
both perfomance and the twin, nashbar, and have been very pleased with
the quality of the stuff I have bought. But a bike? I am not too sure
about that one. The three bikes in my bike barn now were all bought from
local bike shops, all three from different shops, only two of whom would
I ever deal with again. But on the other hand, if I could buy a bike
from an internet seller and it was a major brand and the price was
right, I would consider it.
Ken
|
| | |
Date: 09 May 2007 05:10:15
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
Roger Zoul wrote:
> As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's better to
> deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal and you know how to do
> your own work.
If you go just by what comparably equipped Dura-Ace carbon fiber frame
bicycles go for then it's a very good deal. The questions are where the
frame came from and how good is it, as well as how well the assembly and
tuning was done.
The "Cadillac" name, probably lessens the ability of the vendor to
charge a premium price.
|
| | | |
Date: 09 May 2007 15:43:53
From: John Everett
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
On Wed, 09 May 2007 05:10:15 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com >
wrote:
>Roger Zoul wrote:
>
>> As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's better to
>> deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal and you know how to do
>> your own work.
>
>If you go just by what comparably equipped Dura-Ace carbon fiber frame
>bicycles go for then it's a very good deal. The questions are where the
>frame came from and how good is it, as well as how well the assembly and
>tuning was done.
>
>The "Cadillac" name, probably lessens the ability of the vendor to
>charge a premium price.
See: http://www.cadillacbicycles.com/us_index.html
--
jeverett3<AT >sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)
|
| | | |
Date: 09 May 2007 08:32:36
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
SMS wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's
::: better to deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal and
::: you know how to do your own work.
::
:: If you go just by what comparably equipped Dura-Ace carbon fiber
:: frame bicycles go for then it's a very good deal. The questions are
:: where the frame came from and how good is it, as well as how well
:: the assembly and tuning was done.
::
:: The "Cadillac" name, probably lessens the ability of the vendor to
:: charge a premium price.
My off-the-shelf guess is that the bike would probably be good enough for
anyone who'd seriously consider buying a bike from Costco. Those in the
know would ask the very questions you're asking and shy away, depending of
their comfort with risk.
One question I have is who (bike vendor) would OEM this for Costco? Giant?
|
| | | | |
Date: 09 May 2007 13:18:46
From: JP
Subject: Re: Who's Buying Carbon Fiber bicycles from Costco?
|
"Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1343fr8fku1l112@news.supernews.com...
> SMS wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::
> ::: As for who's buying them....people who definitely don't know it's
> ::: better to deal with your LBS, unless this is a really good deal and
> ::: you know how to do your own work.
> ::
> :: If you go just by what comparably equipped Dura-Ace carbon fiber
> :: frame bicycles go for then it's a very good deal. The questions are
> :: where the frame came from and how good is it, as well as how well
> :: the assembly and tuning was done.
> ::
> :: The "Cadillac" name, probably lessens the ability of the vendor to
> :: charge a premium price.
>
> My off-the-shelf guess is that the bike would probably be good enough for
> anyone who'd seriously consider buying a bike from Costco. Those in the
> know would ask the very questions you're asking and shy away, depending of
> their comfort with risk.
>
> One question I have is who (bike vendor) would OEM this for Costco?
> Giant?
>
Costco makes deals for lots (as in odd lot) of merchandise
from many sources. Their prices often are a pretty fair
approximation for sale prices for the same items from
regular stores, there can be steep discounts on oddball
closeouts.
They may or may not be carrying this frame in two months.
If one were interested they do have a 100% return policy.
Personally I can't stand the place.
JP
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|
