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Main
Date: 15 Jul 2007 21:36:13
From: Duke of Hazard
Subject: Why are most older people brush passers?
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My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
as well?
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Date: 29 Jul 2007 15:50:04
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:01:08 +0000, Phil M. wrote:
> The state of Illinois seems to think he can handle it, as
> they passed him on his last driving test.
Considering the quality of many licensed drivers on the road, I am
beginning to think that the state licensing authorities aren't terribly
reliable judges of competence in this respect.
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 19 Jul 2007 08:15:09
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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On Jul 17, 9:23 am, "brink" <br...@invalid.invald > wrote:
> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote in message
>
> news:llTmi.49800$xk5.46836@edtnps82...
>
>
>
> > <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote...
>
> >> :-) Of course, I always hate demonstrating that Bill makes mistakes.
> >> But I had a similar incident biking to church.
>
> >> Two blocks from the church parking lot, I saw a red convertible
> >> backing out of a driveway on my left, directly toward me - FAST. I
> >> yelled for the driver to stop, which he did; but as soon as I passed,
> >> he whipped out of his drive, then zoomed up behind me and honked the
> >> horn.
>
> >> It's one of those roads where I usually shared the lane, even though
> >> the right side of the lane was a bit bumpy at that time. This time I
> >> didn't. I took the lane, deliberately looking down at his license
> >> plate, and he had to wait behind me until he got the opportunity to
> >> pass. He then turned right, into the church parking lot. I followed.
>
> >> He parked his car, I locked my bike, and he walked in just ahead of
> >> me, conspicuously avoiding looking at me.
>
> > What is this with people not talking to each other on their way into
> > church? It's a great opportunity to build a bridge, laugh it off, get the
> > egg off the face. Sounds like one of those gigantic churches where people
> > get to be anonymous.
>
> Could it have something to do with his angry exchange with a fellow
> churchgoer (whom he wasn't aware was a fellow churchgoer)? I don't know...
> (scratches head)
>
> I don't know about you, but I've acted a fool in past times and gotten my
> comeuppance when I discovered the stranger I was dismissive of/rude
> to/unaware of was someone whom I had a connection with somehow. It's a good
> reminder that we should treat all people -- not just friends -- with
> respect...
At my second or maybe third day of work at the Tour of Hainan (after I
gained admittance to the number one cafeteria but before the racers
arrived) I sat down at a table that was basically the entire
advertising department. Secure in the knowledge that I don't
understand a word they're saying they are really trash talking some of
the other people working at the race, in particular a certain
organizing committee member who is pulling some kind of padding the
payroll stunt with a "professional translator" with the utterly
unbelievably ridiculous name of Yue Meigui.
Come on, "Mountain Rose"? Notwithstanding the fact that no parent
would name their girl child Rose when it goes together with the family
name Mountain it's just downright laughable.
This has been going on for about ten minutes when they decide that the
woman sitting next to me has English sufficient to find out who I am
and what I'm doing. I suppose I -could- have answered in English and -
could- have just given my English name but they might have asked what
department I was in and I'd've eventually have to tell them anyways
that I was the aforementioned 'professional translator' with the
stupid name.
Strangely enough although there were quite a few days between this
incident and the race actually leaving town I didn't see anyone from
the advertising department at a distance of less than 10 meters after
that.
-M
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Date: 20 Jul 2007 09:56:20
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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marian.rosenberg@gmail.com <marian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> At my second or maybe third day of work at the Tour of Hainan (after I
> gained admittance to the number one cafeteria but before the racers
> arrived) I sat down at a table that was basically the entire
> advertising department. Secure in the knowledge that I don't
> understand a word they're saying they are really trash talking some of
> the other people working at the race, in particular a certain
> organizing committee member who is pulling some kind of padding the
> payroll stunt with a "professional translator" with the utterly
> unbelievably ridiculous name of Yue Meigui.
>
> Come on, "Mountain Rose"? Notwithstanding the fact that no parent
> would name their girl child Rose when it goes together with the family
> name Mountain it's just downright laughable.
I imagine 'odd' names are much less common in China? The playgrounds
around here are chock full of odd names. I am one of the guilty parties
myself.
> This has been going on for about ten minutes when they decide that the
> woman sitting next to me has English sufficient to find out who I am
> and what I'm doing. I suppose I -could- have answered in English and -
> could- have just given my English name but they might have asked what
> department I was in and I'd've eventually have to tell them anyways
> that I was the aforementioned 'professional translator' with the
> stupid name.
> Strangely enough although there were quite a few days between this
> incident and the race actually leaving town I didn't see anyone from
> the advertising department at a distance of less than 10 meters after
> that.
*snicker*
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
We rarely find anyone who can say he has lived a happy life, and who,
content with his life, can retire from the world like a satisfied guest.
-- Quintus Horatius Flaccus (Horace)
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Date: 20 Jul 2007 08:13:15
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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In article <1184832909.797118.314230@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
"marian.rosenberg@gmail.com" <marian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 17, 9:23 am, "brink" <br...@invalid.invald> wrote:
> > "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote in message
> >
> > news:llTmi.49800$xk5.46836@edtnps82...
> >
> > > <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote...
> > I don't know about you, but I've acted a fool in past times and gotten my
> > comeuppance when I discovered the stranger I was dismissive of/rude
> > to/unaware of was someone whom I had a connection with somehow. It's a good
> > reminder that we should treat all people -- not just friends -- with
> > respect...
>
> At my second or maybe third day of work at the Tour of Hainan (after I
> gained admittance to the number one cafeteria but before the racers
> arrived) I sat down at a table that was basically the entire
> advertising department. Secure in the knowledge that I don't
> understand a word they're saying they are really trash talking some of
> the other people working at the race, in particular a certain
> organizing committee member who is pulling some kind of padding the
> payroll stunt with a "professional translator" with the utterly
> unbelievably ridiculous name of Yue Meigui.
>
> Come on, "Mountain Rose"? Notwithstanding the fact that no parent
> would name their girl child Rose when it goes together with the family
> name Mountain it's just downright laughable.
>
> This has been going on for about ten minutes when they decide that the
> woman sitting next to me has English sufficient to find out who I am
> and what I'm doing.
Best. Brick. Ever!
I trust from your reposting of this story that you're looking forward to
telling your friends back at the bike shop.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 18 Jul 2007 07:15:21
From:
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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On Jul 17, 3:24 am, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me > wrote:
>
> I love how Frank proved me "wrong" about doubting someone shouting at church
> with a story of someone who wouldn't even make eye contact with him! LOL
You called Luigi a troll and said he lied about the incident -
because, I presumed, you didn't believe people going to church would
be unkind to cyclists.
You were wrong.
A person with class would apologize to Luigi.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 23:56:13
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:36:13 -0700, Duke of Hazard
<squash@peoriadesignweb.com > wrote:
>My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
>70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
>as well?
I notice closer passes by people driving open top 4X4s most
frequently.
--
zk
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 17:40:34
From: Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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On Jul 16, 2:22 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
> > Peter Cole wrote:
> >> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
> >>> We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH
> >>> parking lot that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were
> >>> locking up our bicycles and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us
> >>> and shouted at me for needlessly and recklessly endangering a young
> >>> child. We were doubly amazed. After all, *she* had been the only
> >>> one recklessly endangering anyone with her deliberate bullying on
> >>> the road. All the other drivers we encountered that day passed us
> >>> safely, and didn't treat us like anything else other than
> >>> slow-moving traffic.
> >> Religious person caught in hypocrisy -- film at 11.
>
> > Troll caught in lie (or blatant hyperbole) -- 24/7 on cable news.
>
> Maybe, I don't know, seems I've noticed something similar. I always
> chalked it up to "law & order" types who were afraid to cross the median
> when passing, & so squeeze the cyclist (lots of roads here in New
> England are pretty narrow).
>
> One time I managed to catch an old guy who had squeezed me badly and I
> unleashed a stream of invective. He was very contrite, and admitted that
> he hadn't realized that he came that close. Sometimes people just have
> poor spacial perception -- that doesn't seem to get better with age. I'd
> be the first one to react to ageism, but sometimes old eyes just aren't
> what they should be, and many communities seem to be over tolerant about it.
>
> Younger guys seem to do it deliberately. I know that because often they
> are watching in the rear view & catch my flip off -- frequently they
> return the salute, sometimes pulling over to scream obscenities --
And for dealing with those assholes, God invented the 9mm, the bike-
mounted holster, and the carry permit.
> something I'm usually pleased to exchange.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Date: 19 Jul 2007 09:44:19
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote:
> On Jul 16, 2:22 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Younger guys seem to do it deliberately. I know that because often they
>> are watching in the rear view & catch my flip off -- frequently they
>> return the salute, sometimes pulling over to scream obscenities --
>
>
> And for dealing with those assholes, God invented the 9mm, the bike-
> mounted holster, and the carry permit.
>
Now why didn't I ever think of that?
Must be because I'm an atheist.
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Date: 19 Jul 2007 21:59:24
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:44:19 -0400, Peter Cole
<peter_cole@comcast.net > wrote:
>> And for dealing with those assholes, God invented the 9mm, the bike-
>> mounted holster, and the carry permit.
>>
>
>Now why didn't I ever think of that?
>
>Must be because I'm an atheist.
Damn, I hate when that happens.
Oh well, the monitor need cleaning anyway.
--
zk
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 17:42:02
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 03:11:55 -0700, John Kane wrote:
> Luis was parking his bike IN the church?
>
> "As we were locking up our bicycles
> and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us and shouted at me for
> needlessly and recklessly endangering a young child."
>
> Sounds more like the parking lot to me.
> John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
'twas the parking lot. Being cyclists, we naturally got the choice
parking spaces by the door, which gave her plenty of time to berate us.
-L
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 10:51:18
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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Luigi de Guzman wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 03:11:55 -0700, John Kane wrote:
>
>> Luis was parking his bike IN the church?
>>
>> "As we were locking up our bicycles
>> and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us and shouted at me for
>> needlessly and recklessly endangering a young child."
>>
>> Sounds more like the parking lot to me.
>> John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
>
> 'twas the parking lot. Being cyclists, we naturally got the choice
> parking spaces by the door, which gave her plenty of time to berate
> us.
OK, here's my guess at what happened:
As she passed you, she THOUGHT you did something reckless or dangerous that
caused her to almost hit you. (Your impression is that this elderly
church-goer suddenly swerved in an attempt to "force you off the road".)
Given the adrenaline that flows after such an incident, it's not surprising
that both parties would get worked up.
Too bad there's not an impartial observer available to say who really did
what.
You might want to let this go all this time later? Just a suggestion.
BS
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 03:11:55
From: John Kane
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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On Jul 16, 2:30 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me > wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
> > Bill Sornson wrote:
> >> Peter Cole wrote:
> >>> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
> >>>> We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH
> >>>> parking lot that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were
> >>>> locking up our bicycles and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us
> >>>> and shouted at me for needlessly and recklessly endangering a young
> >>>> child. We were doubly amazed. After all, *she* had been the only
> >>>> one recklessly endangering anyone with her deliberate bullying on
> >>>> the road. All the other drivers we encountered that day passed us
> >>>> safely, and didn't treat us like anything else other than
> >>>> slow-moving traffic.
> >>> Religious person caught in hypocrisy -- film at 11.
>
> >> Troll caught in lie (or blatant hyperbole) -- 24/7 on cable news.
>
> > Maybe, I don't know, seems I've noticed something similar. I always
> > chalked it up to "law & order" types who were afraid to cross the
> > median when passing, & so squeeze the cyclist (lots of roads here in
> > New England are pretty narrow).
>
> > One time I managed to catch an old guy who had squeezed me badly and I
> > unleashed a stream of invective. He was very contrite, and admitted
> > that he hadn't realized that he came that close. Sometimes people just
> > have
> > poor spacial perception -- that doesn't seem to get better with age.
> > I'd be the first one to react to ageism, but sometimes old eyes just
> > aren't what they should be, and many communities seem to be over
> > tolerant about it.
> > Younger guys seem to do it deliberately. I know that because often
> > they are watching in the rear view & catch my flip off -- frequently they
> > return the salute, sometimes pulling over to scream obscenities --
> > something I'm usually pleased to exchange.
>
> No disagreement with what you say. Doesn't mean I believe the OP's story --
> esp. the part about the woman standing up and shouting at them in church.
>
> Doesn't pass the "pew" test, IMO.
>
> BS (I think)
Luis was parking his bike IN the church?
"As we were locking up our bicycles
and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us and shouted at me for
needlessly and recklessly endangering a young child."
Sounds more like the parking lot to me.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 02:45:56
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:18:11 -0500, Patrick Lamb wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:21:23 -0500, "DI" <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>>"Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
>>news:zoTmi.49802$xk5.18802@edtnps82...
>>>
>>> In order of frequency and severity:
>>> 1. Soccer moms in SUVs
>>> 2. old farts in luxury cars
>>> 3. carloads of teenage boys
>>>
>>Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more dangerous
>>than if they were driving a Civic?
>
> IME, it sure seems that way. It's a bigger vehicle, and I've observed
> there's very few drivers capable of safely driving these larger
> vehicles on anything that's not an exceptionally wide lane (think 14'
> lanes on interstates, for example). Watch a lawn service truck with
> double rear wheels and a trailer drive down our local thoroughfare
> with 10' lanes, and it's scary even in a luxury car.
>
dunno; I've had surprisingly good luck with lawn service trucks around
here. They pass close, but I haven't had 'em take weird lines with me.
Also, since they're so huge (relatively) they tend not to accelerate as
quickly or suddenly as some smaller cars, which makes it easier to time
them.
-Luigi
> Pat
>
> Email address works as is.
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 18 Jul 2007 17:08:08
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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>
> dunno; I've had surprisingly good luck with lawn service trucks around
> here. They pass close, but I haven't had 'em take weird lines with me.
> Also, since they're so huge (relatively) they tend not to accelerate as
> quickly or suddenly as some smaller cars, which makes it easier to time
> them.
>
> -Luigi
I nearly got clipped by a lawn service truck with trailer because he got in
the other lane to pass BUT swerved back into my lane too soon. That
trailer's back wheels nearly got me! I don't think they realize how much
space they need to pass someone and they drive as if they are just driving a
pick up truck.
Pat in TX
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Date: 19 Jul 2007 09:42:00
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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Pat wrote:
>> dunno; I've had surprisingly good luck with lawn service trucks around
>> here. They pass close, but I haven't had 'em take weird lines with me.
>> Also, since they're so huge (relatively) they tend not to accelerate as
>> quickly or suddenly as some smaller cars, which makes it easier to time
>> them.
>>
>> -Luigi
>
> I nearly got clipped by a lawn service truck with trailer because he got in
> the other lane to pass BUT swerved back into my lane too soon. That
> trailer's back wheels nearly got me! I don't think they realize how much
> space they need to pass someone and they drive as if they are just driving a
> pick up truck.
>
> Pat in TX
>
>
On many of the roads I ride (newly sprawled ex-rural areas) lawn crews
are among the worst hazards. I think you're right on about the
width/length issue. I almost got my head taken off this spring by one
with a mower handle extending far from the side. My wife did get taken
down this year when the trailer clipped her pannier.
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 00:43:32
From: brink
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
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"Luigi de Guzman" <luigi12081@cox.net > wrote in message
news:E3Wmi.44684$LE1.38188@newsfe13.lga...
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:18:11 -0500, Patrick Lamb wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:21:23 -0500, "DI" <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>>>"Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
>>>news:zoTmi.49802$xk5.18802@edtnps82...
>>>>
>>>> In order of frequency and severity:
>>>> 1. Soccer moms in SUVs
>>>> 2. old farts in luxury cars
>>>> 3. carloads of teenage boys
>>>>
>>>Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more
>>>dangerous
>>>than if they were driving a Civic?
>>
>> IME, it sure seems that way. It's a bigger vehicle, and I've observed
>> there's very few drivers capable of safely driving these larger
>> vehicles on anything that's not an exceptionally wide lane (think 14'
>> lanes on interstates, for example). Watch a lawn service truck with
>> double rear wheels and a trailer drive down our local thoroughfare
>> with 10' lanes, and it's scary even in a luxury car.
>>
>
> dunno; I've had surprisingly good luck with lawn service trucks around
> here. They pass close, but I haven't had 'em take weird lines with me.
> Also, since they're so huge (relatively) they tend not to accelerate as
> quickly or suddenly as some smaller cars, which makes it easier to time
> them.
Here (Southern California) I'm sad to say I can't report the same. Work
trucks of all types do a poorer-than-average job of driving with cyclists in
my experience, and the more beaten-up the vehicle, the worse the average
driver I've observed. And lawn service trucks definitely skew toward the
beaten-up side of the spectrum.
Overall though, I can't complain much. Most drivers do a pretty good job
around here with giving space, yielding properly, etc. You know, I've never
had anyone yell "get off the road" here... just AZ and IA. Probably just
dumb luck though, given enough miles, the probability of that typer of
encounter approaches 1.
brink
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 02:44:28
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 01:47:27 +0000, Jim Flom wrote:
>>>
>> Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more dangerous
>> than if they were driving a Civic?
>
> Yes! People who drive Civics are humbler. Women in SUVs think they know
> how to drive them (if they live in affluent suburbs).
Actually, my problem is that people drive their Suburbans as if they
*were* Civics. That is, they take lines on curves and corners that are
better-suited to a smaller car. Mainly, this means they enter too fast
and cut their corners.
This is a particular worry when you're sitting in the left turning
lane and one of these genii makes a 90 degree left turn from the cross
street. A cut corner will clip you. If you're sensible, you'll line up
maybe a meter and a half short of the line--easy to tell, since the
paint's worn down where these clowns cut their corners--but then
automotive traffic behind you gets grumpy that you haven't moved up all
the way. You can't win.
Oh, vocabulary word of the day: in Spanish (at least in Latin America)
the word for those brush bars on SUVs is "mataburros." Yup, "donkey
killers."
-Luigi
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 02:40:24
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:19:28 -0700, brink wrote:
>
> As they say, never ascribe to malice that which could be more likely
> explained by incompetence. Sounds like the old lady probably got a scare
> herself, nearly hitting a couple cyclists (by accident)... and then turned
> that fear into misdirected anger at the cyclists... it's a common reaction
> from ALL human beings.
I wonder what malice looks like then. Her line was perfectly fine until
she saw us. Then she *purposely* swerved right to push us off the road,
revving her engine and honking. The anger directed at us as we were
locking up our bikes was just a bonus.
I've given up trying to analyze it with logic--no logic helps. Most
motorists, if genuinely scared, tend towards the over-cautious, if
anything. "MY GOD THAT MAN'S ON A BICYCLE IN THE ROAD!" and they either
(a) freeze, holding up traffic behind us, even if there is plenty of room
to pass safely, or (b) overcompensate, swinging WAY out into the other
lane to pass me.
Probably the best reaction I ever got was from a dude in a pick-up truck
with ladder racks. He rolled alongside me, rolled down his passenger
window (all while moving!) and asked me "Say, isn't that kind of
dangerous?"
"Not as much as you'd think," I told him. "Go ahead and pass me," I said,
waving him on.
-Luigi
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 13:51:01
From: Duke of Hazard
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> Why? I think they drive less, have less experience passing cyclists,
> are less confident, and fall back on simplistic thinking: "I'm not
> allowed to cross that line. Ever!" I don't think it's deliberate.
You are right, I too noticed the brush passing mostly when travelling
on single lane roads
with the double line. It seems they would rather hit me then break the
law by crossing it.
Just seems illogical how someone with so many years of experience
would behave so blindly?
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 13:36:11
From:
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Jul 16, 2:30 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me > wrote:
>
>
> No disagreement with what you say. Doesn't mean I believe the OP's story --
> esp. the part about the woman standing up and shouting at them in church.
>
> Doesn't pass the "pew" test, IMO.
>
> BS (I think)
:-) Of course, I always hate demonstrating that Bill makes mistakes.
But I had a similar incident biking to church.
Two blocks from the church parking lot, I saw a red convertible
backing out of a driveway on my left, directly toward me - FAST. I
yelled for the driver to stop, which he did; but as soon as I passed,
he whipped out of his drive, then zoomed up behind me and honked the
horn.
It's one of those roads where I usually shared the lane, even though
the right side of the lane was a bit bumpy at that time. This time I
didn't. I took the lane, deliberately looking down at his license
plate, and he had to wait behind me until he got the opportunity to
pass. He then turned right, into the church parking lot. I followed.
He parked his car, I locked my bike, and he walked in just ahead of
me, conspicuously avoiding looking at me.
We saw each other again on the way out. Or at least, I saw him.
Again, he was somehow not looking in my direction. But his driving
has been courteous the few times our paths crossed since then.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 18:21:22
From: brink
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
<frkrygow@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1184618171.963850.142680@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 2:30 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
>>
>>
>> No disagreement with what you say. Doesn't mean I believe the OP's
>> story --
>> esp. the part about the woman standing up and shouting at them in church.
>>
>> Doesn't pass the "pew" test, IMO.
>>
>> BS (I think)
>
>
>
> :-) Of course, I always hate demonstrating that Bill makes mistakes.
> But I had a similar incident biking to church.
>
> Two blocks from the church parking lot, I saw a red convertible
> backing out of a driveway on my left, directly toward me - FAST. I
> yelled for the driver to stop, which he did; but as soon as I passed,
> he whipped out of his drive, then zoomed up behind me and honked the
> horn.
>
> It's one of those roads where I usually shared the lane, even though
> the right side of the lane was a bit bumpy at that time. This time I
> didn't. I took the lane, deliberately looking down at his license
> plate, and he had to wait behind me until he got the opportunity to
> pass. He then turned right, into the church parking lot. I followed.
>
> He parked his car, I locked my bike, and he walked in just ahead of
> me, conspicuously avoiding looking at me.
>
> We saw each other again on the way out. Or at least, I saw him.
> Again, he was somehow not looking in my direction. But his driving
> has been courteous the few times our paths crossed since then.
Let's face it, you did him -- and many others -- a great service by
"teaching him a lesson." Without a verbal confrontation, he got the
message. One would hope that others would be so receptive to these kinds of
"lessons," including ourselves.
brink
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| | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 00:24:42
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"brink" <brink@invalid.invald > wrote in message
news:5g2kbdF3cvu4kU2@mid.individual.net...
>
> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1184618171.963850.142680@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 16, 2:30 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> No disagreement with what you say. Doesn't mean I believe the OP's
>>> story --
>>> esp. the part about the woman standing up and shouting at them in
>>> church.
>>>
>>> Doesn't pass the "pew" test, IMO.
>>>
>>> BS (I think)
>>
>>
>>
>> :-) Of course, I always hate demonstrating that Bill makes mistakes.
>> But I had a similar incident biking to church.
>>
>> Two blocks from the church parking lot, I saw a red convertible
>> backing out of a driveway on my left, directly toward me - FAST. I
>> yelled for the driver to stop, which he did; but as soon as I passed,
>> he whipped out of his drive, then zoomed up behind me and honked the
>> horn.
>>
>> It's one of those roads where I usually shared the lane, even though
>> the right side of the lane was a bit bumpy at that time. This time I
>> didn't. I took the lane, deliberately looking down at his license
>> plate, and he had to wait behind me until he got the opportunity to
>> pass. He then turned right, into the church parking lot. I followed.
>>
>> He parked his car, I locked my bike, and he walked in just ahead of
>> me, conspicuously avoiding looking at me.
>>
>> We saw each other again on the way out. Or at least, I saw him.
>> Again, he was somehow not looking in my direction. But his driving
>> has been courteous the few times our paths crossed since then.
>
> Let's face it, you did him -- and many others -- a great service by
> "teaching him a lesson." Without a verbal confrontation, he got the
> message. One would hope that others would be so receptive to these kinds
> of "lessons," including ourselves.
I love how Frank proved me "wrong" about doubting someone shouting at church
with a story of someone who wouldn't even make eye contact with him! LOL
Typical.
Bill "still, it's an improvement over past tries" S.
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| | | | |
Date: 18 Jul 2007 18:15:33
From: Paul Myron Hobson
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Bill Sornson wrote:
> I love how Frank proved me "wrong" about doubting someone shouting at church
> with a story of someone who wouldn't even make eye contact with him! LOL
>
> Typical.
You showed your as by calling Luigi a troll. He's not. You were wrong.
Period. End of story. Fin, etc
\\paul
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| | | | | |
Date: 18 Jul 2007 18:03:22
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Paul Myron Hobson wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> I love how Frank proved me "wrong" about doubting someone shouting
>> at church with a story of someone who wouldn't even make eye contact
>> with him! LOL Typical.
>
> You showed your as by calling Luigi a troll. He's not. You were
> wrong.
> Period. End of story. Fin, etc
Whoosh on so many levels! LOL
Bill "ass time goes bye" S.
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| | | | |
Date: 18 Jul 2007 17:01:19
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"Bill Sornson"--you were wrong. Luigi isn't a troll. You weren't there. He
was. End of story. The next time you jump in on something, think before you
shoot your mouth off.
Pat in TX
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| | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 23:40:01
From: Jim Flom
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
<frkrygow@gmail.com > wrote...
>
> :-) Of course, I always hate demonstrating that Bill makes mistakes.
> But I had a similar incident biking to church.
>
> Two blocks from the church parking lot, I saw a red convertible
> backing out of a driveway on my left, directly toward me - FAST. I
> yelled for the driver to stop, which he did; but as soon as I passed,
> he whipped out of his drive, then zoomed up behind me and honked the
> horn.
>
> It's one of those roads where I usually shared the lane, even though
> the right side of the lane was a bit bumpy at that time. This time I
> didn't. I took the lane, deliberately looking down at his license
> plate, and he had to wait behind me until he got the opportunity to
> pass. He then turned right, into the church parking lot. I followed.
>
> He parked his car, I locked my bike, and he walked in just ahead of
> me, conspicuously avoiding looking at me.
What is this with people not talking to each other on their way into church?
It's a great opportunity to build a bridge, laugh it off, get the egg off
the face. Sounds like one of those gigantic churches where people get to be
anonymous.
> We saw each other again on the way out. Or at least, I saw him.
> Again, he was somehow not looking in my direction. But his driving
> has been courteous the few times our paths crossed since then.
He repented.
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| | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 18:23:44
From: brink
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net > wrote in message
news:llTmi.49800$xk5.46836@edtnps82...
> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote...
>>
>> :-) Of course, I always hate demonstrating that Bill makes mistakes.
>> But I had a similar incident biking to church.
>>
>> Two blocks from the church parking lot, I saw a red convertible
>> backing out of a driveway on my left, directly toward me - FAST. I
>> yelled for the driver to stop, which he did; but as soon as I passed,
>> he whipped out of his drive, then zoomed up behind me and honked the
>> horn.
>>
>> It's one of those roads where I usually shared the lane, even though
>> the right side of the lane was a bit bumpy at that time. This time I
>> didn't. I took the lane, deliberately looking down at his license
>> plate, and he had to wait behind me until he got the opportunity to
>> pass. He then turned right, into the church parking lot. I followed.
>>
>> He parked his car, I locked my bike, and he walked in just ahead of
>> me, conspicuously avoiding looking at me.
>
> What is this with people not talking to each other on their way into
> church? It's a great opportunity to build a bridge, laugh it off, get the
> egg off the face. Sounds like one of those gigantic churches where people
> get to be anonymous.
Could it have something to do with his angry exchange with a fellow
churchgoer (whom he wasn't aware was a fellow churchgoer)? I don't know...
(scratches head)
I don't know about you, but I've acted a fool in past times and gotten my
comeuppance when I discovered the stranger I was dismissive of/rude
to/unaware of was someone whom I had a connection with somehow. It's a good
reminder that we should treat all people -- not just friends -- with
respect...
brink
|
| | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 05:37:45
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
In article <5g2kbeF3cvu4kU3@mid.individual.net >,
"brink" <brink@invalid.invald > wrote:
> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:llTmi.49800$xk5.46836@edtnps82...
> > <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote...
> >>
> >> :-) Of course, I always hate demonstrating that Bill makes mistakes.
> >> But I had a similar incident biking to church.
> >>
> >> Two blocks from the church parking lot, I saw a red convertible
> >> backing out of a driveway on my left, directly toward me - FAST. I
> >> yelled for the driver to stop, which he did; but as soon as I passed,
> >> he whipped out of his drive, then zoomed up behind me and honked the
> >> horn.
> >>
> >> It's one of those roads where I usually shared the lane, even though
> >> the right side of the lane was a bit bumpy at that time. This time I
> >> didn't. I took the lane, deliberately looking down at his license
> >> plate, and he had to wait behind me until he got the opportunity to
> >> pass. He then turned right, into the church parking lot. I followed.
> >>
> >> He parked his car, I locked my bike, and he walked in just ahead of
> >> me, conspicuously avoiding looking at me.
> >
> > What is this with people not talking to each other on their way into
> > church? It's a great opportunity to build a bridge, laugh it off, get the
> > egg off the face. Sounds like one of those gigantic churches where people
> > get to be anonymous.
>
> Could it have something to do with his angry exchange with a fellow
> churchgoer (whom he wasn't aware was a fellow churchgoer)? I don't know...
> (scratches head)
>
> I don't know about you, but I've acted a fool in past times and gotten my
> comeuppance when I discovered the stranger I was dismissive of/rude
> to/unaware of was someone whom I had a connection with somehow. It's a good
> reminder that we should treat all people -- not just friends -- with
> respect...
Testify. I have a story of a misjudged encounter that is so embarrassing
I'm just not going to repeat it this time.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 01:45:59
From: Jim Flom
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"brink" <brink@invalid.invald > wrote in message
news:5g2kbeF3cvu4kU3@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:llTmi.49800$xk5.46836@edtnps82...
>> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote...
>>>
>>> :-) Of course, I always hate demonstrating that Bill makes mistakes.
>>> But I had a similar incident biking to church.
>>>
>>> Two blocks from the church parking lot, I saw a red convertible
>>> backing out of a driveway on my left, directly toward me - FAST. I
>>> yelled for the driver to stop, which he did; but as soon as I passed,
>>> he whipped out of his drive, then zoomed up behind me and honked the
>>> horn.
>>>
>>> It's one of those roads where I usually shared the lane, even though
>>> the right side of the lane was a bit bumpy at that time. This time I
>>> didn't. I took the lane, deliberately looking down at his license
>>> plate, and he had to wait behind me until he got the opportunity to
>>> pass. He then turned right, into the church parking lot. I followed.
>>>
>>> He parked his car, I locked my bike, and he walked in just ahead of
>>> me, conspicuously avoiding looking at me.
>>
>> What is this with people not talking to each other on their way into
>> church? It's a great opportunity to build a bridge, laugh it off, get the
>> egg off the face. Sounds like one of those gigantic churches where
>> people get to be anonymous.
>
> Could it have something to do with his angry exchange with a fellow
> churchgoer (whom he wasn't aware was a fellow churchgoer)? I don't
> know... (scratches head)
>
> I don't know about you, but I've acted a fool in past times and gotten my
> comeuppance when I discovered the stranger I was dismissive of/rude
> to/unaware of was someone whom I had a connection with somehow. It's a
> good reminder that we should treat all people -- not just friends -- with
> respect...
That was my great awakening. Living outside of a big city carries with it
the anonymity that allowed me to leave the house pissed off and take it out
on someone. Living in the small town I do now I just can't do that. I know
the clerk at the grocery store, the postal worker (!), the ... etc. But
going into a church they both know they're supposed to be "Christ-like" and
(being human) blew it. Sure I should treat people with respect, but be
honest. We don't. Or lie rationalize (rational lies). Moralism without
the gospel drives one to futility. With it, it drives me to Christ (and
taking myself less seriously). Then I can say, "Boy do I feel stupid for
blaring my horn at you. Sorry." It's amazing the things that can do.
|
| |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 20:11:26
From:
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Jul 16, 12:36 am, Duke of Hazard <squ...@peoriadesignweb.com >
wrote:
> My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
> 70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
> as well?
I agree that the older folks are more likely to do it.
Why? I think they drive less, have less experience passing cyclists,
are less confident, and fall back on simplistic thinking: "I'm not
allowed to cross that line. Ever!" I don't think it's deliberate.
Example incident: Biking to work, at a narrow two-block stretch where
I have to take the lane, I had a Cadillac blare the horn behind me.
Not a short "toot," but a longer "Hoonk!" Then the car came up
alongside, so its right front wheel was immediately to my left, maybe
two feet away.
Another "Hoonk!" and I was thinking "How am I going to escape this
nut?" Then a little old lady leaned out the passenger window and
asked "Excuse me, can you tell us how to get to the Sunshine Holiness
Church?" They were just trying to get my attention! They apologized
profusely when I said "You're scaring the hell out of me!"
- Frank Krygowski
|
| | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 17:03:37
From: fred
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 16, 12:36 am, Duke of Hazard <squ...@peoriadesignweb.com>
> wrote:
>> My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
>> 70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
>> as well?
>
> I agree that the older folks are more likely to do it.
>
> Why? I think they drive less, have less experience passing cyclists,
> are less confident, and fall back on simplistic thinking: "I'm not
> allowed to cross that line. Ever!" I don't think it's deliberate.
...snip...
I'd agree. Also, I think some it boils down to failing eyesight and
fading reaction time.
I've a dear friend from church who is well into his 80s (WWII vet) and
still drives to church and such. I never park near him when I drive and
always let him leave first when I cycle to church. He's written off two
cars in three years. I cannot understand how he has insurance, much
less a driver's license.
The only driver scarier is a 16 yearold with 3 friends in his father's car.
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 22:29:27
From: Dennis P. Harris
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:03:37 -0500 in rec.bicycles.misc, fred
<fred@fred.com > wrote:
> I've a dear friend from church who is well into his 80s (WWII vet) and
> still drives to church and such. I never park near him when I drive and
> always let him leave first when I cycle to church. He's written off two
> cars in three years. I cannot understand how he has insurance, much
> less a driver's license.
he might not. it's not unusual for older men to continue driving
after they've flunked the test or had their licenses revoked. if
you're really worried that he's impaired, let your local police
know. it's not a kindness to continue to let him drive and he
kills someone.
|
| | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2007 13:01:08
From: Phil M.
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
NO_SPAM_TO_dpharris@gci.net wrote:
> he might not. it's not unusual for older men to continue driving
> after they've flunked the test or had their licenses revoked. if
> you're really worried that he's impaired, let your local police
> know. it's not a kindness to continue to let him drive and he
> kills someone.
My dad is 87. It took us a long time to convince him that he should not be
driving anymore. The state of Illinois seems to think he can handle it, as
they passed him on his last driving test. He's been a control freak all his
life. This is one of the last things that he still had control of.
--
Phil M.
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| | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 17:08:13
From: DI
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"fred" <fred@fred.com > wrote in message
news:RWRmi.73878$tL1.47930@newsfe22.lga...
> frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Jul 16, 12:36 am, Duke of Hazard <squ...@peoriadesignweb.com>
>> wrote:
>>> My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
>>> 70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
>>> as well?
>>
>> I agree that the older folks are more likely to do it.
>>
>> Why? I think they drive less, have less experience passing cyclists,
>> are less confident, and fall back on simplistic thinking: "I'm not
>> allowed to cross that line. Ever!" I don't think it's deliberate.
> ...snip...
>
> I'd agree. Also, I think some it boils down to failing eyesight and
> fading reaction time.
>
> I've a dear friend from church who is well into his 80s (WWII vet) and
> still drives to church and such. I never park near him when I drive and
> always let him leave first when I cycle to church. He's written off two
> cars in three years. I cannot understand how he has insurance, much less
> a driver's license.
>
> The only driver scarier is a 16 yearold with 3 friends in his father's
> car.
on a cell phone.
|
| | | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 15:20:16
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
DI wrote:
> "fred" <fred@fred.com> wrote in message
> news:RWRmi.73878$tL1.47930@newsfe22.lga...
>> The only driver scarier is a 16 yearold with 3 friends in his
>> father's car.
> on a cell phone.
Texting.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 19:18:10
From: DI
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me > wrote in message
news:469bef24$0$24772$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> DI wrote:
>> "fred" <fred@fred.com> wrote in message
>> news:RWRmi.73878$tL1.47930@newsfe22.lga...
>
>>> The only driver scarier is a 16 yearold with 3 friends in his
>>> father's car.
>
>> on a cell phone.
>
> Texting.
to each other
>
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 18:08:16
From: Rich Clark
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"fred" <fred@fred.com > wrote in message
news:RWRmi.73878$tL1.47930@newsfe22.lga...
> The only driver scarier is a 16 yearold with 3 friends in his father's
> car.
Dad's car is more likely to crash into a tree, killing the occupants and
possibly the tree. Mom's car is more likely to be an Invulnerobile that so
isolates the driver from the road that they don't even notice when they hit
you. I worry more about Junior than about Mom, but not by much.
Or so it seems to me.
r
|
| | | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 23:43:27
From: Jim Flom
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"Rich Clark" <rdclark2SPAM@TRAPcomcast.net > wrote in message
news:fZidndvu9IGicQbbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "fred" <fred@fred.com> wrote in message
> news:RWRmi.73878$tL1.47930@newsfe22.lga...
>
>> The only driver scarier is a 16 yearold with 3 friends in his father's
>> car.
>
> Dad's car is more likely to crash into a tree, killing the occupants and
> possibly the tree. Mom's car is more likely to be an Invulnerobile that so
> isolates the driver from the road that they don't even notice when they
> hit you. I worry more about Junior than about Mom, but not by much.
>
> Or so it seems to me.
In order of frequency and severity:
1. Soccer moms in SUVs
2. old farts in luxury cars
3. carloads of teenage boys
|
| | | | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 19:21:23
From: DI
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net > wrote in message
news:zoTmi.49802$xk5.18802@edtnps82...
> "Rich Clark" <rdclark2SPAM@TRAPcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:fZidndvu9IGicQbbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "fred" <fred@fred.com> wrote in message
>> news:RWRmi.73878$tL1.47930@newsfe22.lga...
>>
>>> The only driver scarier is a 16 yearold with 3 friends in his father's
>>> car.
>>
>> Dad's car is more likely to crash into a tree, killing the occupants and
>> possibly the tree. Mom's car is more likely to be an Invulnerobile that
>> so isolates the driver from the road that they don't even notice when
>> they hit you. I worry more about Junior than about Mom, but not by much.
>>
>> Or so it seems to me.
>
> In order of frequency and severity:
> 1. Soccer moms in SUVs
> 2. old farts in luxury cars
> 3. carloads of teenage boys
>
Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more dangerous
than if they were driving a Civic?
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 21:18:11
From: Patrick Lamb
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:21:23 -0500, "DI" <di9999@cox.net > wrote:
>"Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
>news:zoTmi.49802$xk5.18802@edtnps82...
>>
>> In order of frequency and severity:
>> 1. Soccer moms in SUVs
>> 2. old farts in luxury cars
>> 3. carloads of teenage boys
>>
>Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more dangerous
>than if they were driving a Civic?
IME, it sure seems that way. It's a bigger vehicle, and I've observed
there's very few drivers capable of safely driving these larger
vehicles on anything that's not an exceptionally wide lane (think 14'
lanes on interstates, for example). Watch a lawn service truck with
double rear wheels and a trailer drive down our local thoroughfare
with 10' lanes, and it's scary even in a luxury car.
Pat
Email address works as is.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 01:47:27
From: Jim Flom
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"DI" <di9999@cox.net > wrote in message
news:7YTmi.283080$Fk2.29828@newsfe08.phx...
>
> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:zoTmi.49802$xk5.18802@edtnps82...
>> "Rich Clark" <rdclark2SPAM@TRAPcomcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:fZidndvu9IGicQbbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "fred" <fred@fred.com> wrote in message
>>> news:RWRmi.73878$tL1.47930@newsfe22.lga...
>>>
>>>> The only driver scarier is a 16 yearold with 3 friends in his father's
>>>> car.
>>>
>>> Dad's car is more likely to crash into a tree, killing the occupants and
>>> possibly the tree. Mom's car is more likely to be an Invulnerobile that
>>> so isolates the driver from the road that they don't even notice when
>>> they hit you. I worry more about Junior than about Mom, but not by much.
>>>
>>> Or so it seems to me.
>>
>> In order of frequency and severity:
>> 1. Soccer moms in SUVs
>> 2. old farts in luxury cars
>> 3. carloads of teenage boys
>>
> Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more dangerous
> than if they were driving a Civic?
Yes! People who drive Civics are humbler. Women in SUVs think they know
how to drive them (if they live in affluent suburbs).
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 18:30:21
From: brink
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"DI" <di9999@cox.net > wrote in message
news:7YTmi.283080$Fk2.29828@newsfe08.phx...
>
> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:zoTmi.49802$xk5.18802@edtnps82...
>> "Rich Clark" <rdclark2SPAM@TRAPcomcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:fZidndvu9IGicQbbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "fred" <fred@fred.com> wrote in message
>>> news:RWRmi.73878$tL1.47930@newsfe22.lga...
>>>
>>>> The only driver scarier is a 16 yearold with 3 friends in his father's
>>>> car.
>>>
>>> Dad's car is more likely to crash into a tree, killing the occupants and
>>> possibly the tree. Mom's car is more likely to be an Invulnerobile that
>>> so isolates the driver from the road that they don't even notice when
>>> they hit you. I worry more about Junior than about Mom, but not by much.
>>>
>>> Or so it seems to me.
>>
>> In order of frequency and severity:
>> 1. Soccer moms in SUVs
>> 2. old farts in luxury cars
>> 3. carloads of teenage boys
>>
> Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more dangerous
> than if they were driving a Civic?
Have to say, observation tells me "yes." Poor sight lines in the SUV? A
subtle, subconciously inculcated feeling of invulnerability (and therefore
less situational awareness)? I don't know, but that's how I perceive it...
brink
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 20:46:31
From: DI
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"brink" <brink@invalid.invald > wrote in message
news:5g2kdgF3f90dtU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "DI" <di9999@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:7YTmi.283080$Fk2.29828@newsfe08.phx...
>>
>> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
>> news:zoTmi.49802$xk5.18802@edtnps82...
>>> "Rich Clark" <rdclark2SPAM@TRAPcomcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:fZidndvu9IGicQbbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>> "fred" <fred@fred.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:RWRmi.73878$tL1.47930@newsfe22.lga...
>>>>
>>>>> The only driver scarier is a 16 yearold with 3 friends in his father's
>>>>> car.
>>>>
>>>> Dad's car is more likely to crash into a tree, killing the occupants
>>>> and possibly the tree. Mom's car is more likely to be an Invulnerobile
>>>> that so isolates the driver from the road that they don't even notice
>>>> when they hit you. I worry more about Junior than about Mom, but not by
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> Or so it seems to me.
>>>
>>> In order of frequency and severity:
>>> 1. Soccer moms in SUVs
>>> 2. old farts in luxury cars
>>> 3. carloads of teenage boys
>>>
>> Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more
>> dangerous than if they were driving a Civic?
>
> Have to say, observation tells me "yes." Poor sight lines in the SUV? A
> subtle, subconciously inculcated feeling of invulnerability (and therefore
> less situational awareness)? I don't know, but that's how I perceive
> it...
>
> brink
>
Profiling?
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 01:20:54
From: Mark Shroyer
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On 2007-07-17, DI <di9999@cox.net > wrote:
> Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more
> dangerous than if they were driving a Civic?
I'd say the SUV, at least, is potentially more dangerous. For one
thing, if you're hit by a car chances are that you'll land on the
hood or windshield -- certainly not ideal, but much better than the
alternative of being knocked to the ground and possibly run over,
which is a far greater risk if you're hit by a tall SUV.
And while I don't have any research at hand to back this up, my
experience is that SUVs imbue a sense of insulation from the
environment in a way that cars do not. And I don't think many would
argue against the fact that it simply takes more skill and attention
to navigate a large SUV through city streets than it does a Civic or
other commuter vehicle of sensible proportions.
So yeah, my preference would be for distracted soccer moms and the
like to not be on the road in the first place. But, failing that,
I'd much rather see such drivers in a small car with high
visibility, than in a ginormous road-hogging SUV.
* Disclaimer: This semi-rant should not be construed to apply in any
way, shape, or form to those who own and drive SUVs and other types
of trucks because they have an actual use for such vehicles.
--
Mark Shroyer
http://markshroyer.com/
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 00:46:41
From: brink
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"Mark Shroyer" <usenet-mail@markshroyer.com > wrote in message
news:slrnf9o6bo.jba.usenet-mail@sed.homestarmy.dynalias.net...
> On 2007-07-17, DI <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>> Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more
>> dangerous than if they were driving a Civic?
>
> I'd say the SUV, at least, is potentially more dangerous. For one
> thing, if you're hit by a car chances are that you'll land on the
> hood or windshield -- certainly not ideal, but much better than the
> alternative of being knocked to the ground and possibly run over,
> which is a far greater risk if you're hit by a tall SUV.
>
> And while I don't have any research at hand to back this up, my
> experience is that SUVs imbue a sense of insulation from the
> environment in a way that cars do not. And I don't think many would
> argue against the fact that it simply takes more skill and attention
> to navigate a large SUV through city streets than it does a Civic or
> other commuter vehicle of sensible proportions.
>
> So yeah, my preference would be for distracted soccer moms and the
> like to not be on the road in the first place. But, failing that,
> I'd much rather see such drivers in a small car with high
> visibility, than in a ginormous road-hogging SUV.
>
> * Disclaimer: This semi-rant should not be construed to apply in any
> way, shape, or form to those who own and drive SUVs and other types
> of trucks because they have an actual use for such vehicles.
I agree from personal experience. I drive a car but when my wife and I (and
our baby) fly I always rent us a mid-size SUV so we can handle the extra
bags and passengers we invariably end up with during our travels. There's
no question that for me there is a greater sense of distancing and unreality
in an SUV -- I think because of the higher profile, the larger interior
space, and the bigger footprint. It's something more like a living room on
wheels than a car is.
brink
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 20:50:33
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
brink (who?) anonymously wrote:
> "Mark Shroyer" <usenet-mail@markshroyer.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnf9o6bo.jba.usenet-mail@sed.homestarmy.dynalias.net...
>> On 2007-07-17, DI <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>>> Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more
>>> dangerous than if they were driving a Civic?
>> I'd say the SUV, at least, is potentially more dangerous. For one
>> thing, if you're hit by a car chances are that you'll land on the
>> hood or windshield -- certainly not ideal, but much better than the
>> alternative of being knocked to the ground and possibly run over,
>> which is a far greater risk if you're hit by a tall SUV.
>>
>> And while I don't have any research at hand to back this up, my
>> experience is that SUVs imbue a sense of insulation from the
>> environment in a way that cars do not. And I don't think many would
>> argue against the fact that it simply takes more skill and attention
>> to navigate a large SUV through city streets than it does a Civic or
>> other commuter vehicle of sensible proportions.
>>
>> So yeah, my preference would be for distracted soccer moms and the
>> like to not be on the road in the first place. But, failing that,
>> I'd much rather see such drivers in a small car with high
>> visibility, than in a ginormous road-hogging SUV.
>>
>> * Disclaimer: This semi-rant should not be construed to apply in any
>> way, shape, or form to those who own and drive SUVs and other types
>> of trucks because they have an actual use for such vehicles.
>
> I agree from personal experience. I drive a car but when my wife and I (and
> our baby) fly I always rent us a mid-size SUV so we can handle the extra
> bags and passengers we invariably end up with during our travels. There's
> no question that for me there is a greater sense of distancing and unreality
> in an SUV -- I think because of the higher profile, the larger interior
> space, and the bigger footprint. It's something more like a living room on
> wheels than a car is.
Unless you are going off-road, a minivan makes much more sense than an
SUV for carrying extra passengers and luggage.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 22:25:46
From: brink
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:469d65c7$0$16328$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> brink (who?) anonymously wrote:
>> "Mark Shroyer" <usenet-mail@markshroyer.com> wrote in message
>> news:slrnf9o6bo.jba.usenet-mail@sed.homestarmy.dynalias.net...
>>> On 2007-07-17, DI <di9999@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Is a soccer mom in a SUV or an old fart in a luxury car any more
>>>> dangerous than if they were driving a Civic?
>>> I'd say the SUV, at least, is potentially more dangerous. For one
>>> thing, if you're hit by a car chances are that you'll land on the
>>> hood or windshield -- certainly not ideal, but much better than the
>>> alternative of being knocked to the ground and possibly run over,
>>> which is a far greater risk if you're hit by a tall SUV.
>>>
>>> And while I don't have any research at hand to back this up, my
>>> experience is that SUVs imbue a sense of insulation from the
>>> environment in a way that cars do not. And I don't think many would
>>> argue against the fact that it simply takes more skill and attention
>>> to navigate a large SUV through city streets than it does a Civic or
>>> other commuter vehicle of sensible proportions.
>>>
>>> So yeah, my preference would be for distracted soccer moms and the
>>> like to not be on the road in the first place. But, failing that,
>>> I'd much rather see such drivers in a small car with high
>>> visibility, than in a ginormous road-hogging SUV.
>>>
>>> * Disclaimer: This semi-rant should not be construed to apply in any
>>> way, shape, or form to those who own and drive SUVs and other types
>>> of trucks because they have an actual use for such vehicles.
>>
>> I agree from personal experience. I drive a car but when my wife and I
>> (and our baby) fly I always rent us a mid-size SUV so we can handle the
>> extra bags and passengers we invariably end up with during our travels.
>> There's no question that for me there is a greater sense of distancing
>> and unreality in an SUV -- I think because of the higher profile, the
>> larger interior space, and the bigger footprint. It's something more
>> like a living room on wheels than a car is.
>
> Unless you are going off-road, a minivan makes much more sense than an SUV
> for carrying extra passengers and luggage.
I usually get better deals for SUVs; our last trip, April, 2 weeks flying in
and out of O'Hare in Chicago, got a mid-size SUV for $450 for entire trip.
Minivan would have been $600. Same thing for an upcoming Minneapolis trip
in September; about $450 for the SUV while the mini-van is substantially
more.
brink
|
| | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 20:32:17
From: Kristian M Zoerhoff
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On 2007-07-16, frkrygow@gmail.com <frkrygow@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 16, 12:36 am, Duke of Hazard <squ...@peoriadesignweb.com>
> wrote:
>> My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
>> 70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
>> as well?
>
> I agree that the older folks are more likely to do it.
>
> Why? I think they drive less, have less experience passing cyclists,
> are less confident, and fall back on simplistic thinking: "I'm not
> allowed to cross that line. Ever!" I don't think it's deliberate.
I'll also agree with this.
This past weekend, I was vacationing in Door County, WI, and was riding back
from Sturgeon Bay to our cabin in Little Harbor. County Highway B [1] is
the best route, and is plenty wide, with a nice shoulder, but as we're riding
along, I hear a honk from an approaching Cadillac. As it overtakes, it
doesn't move an inch over the center line.
The driver was well into their 70s. I can only assume they meant the honk to
alert us to their impending pass, not as a "get the f*** out of my way"
honk, as their eyes were fixed straight ahead as they passed, rather than
glowering at us.
I've gotten this on a few other occasions as well, and I think they really
think they're doing us a favor by honking.
[1] Helpfully suggested by Ron W. over on rec.bicycles.rides, and defintely
as good a ride as advertised.
--
__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com
(_)/ (_)
|
| |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 18:45:39
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:30:05 -0700, Bill Sornson wrote:
>
> No disagreement with what you say. Doesn't mean I believe the OP's story --
> esp. the part about the woman standing up and shouting at them in church.
>
> Doesn't pass the "pew" test, IMO.
>
> BS (I think)
You don't believe me?
This is actually the second time I've told this story on this NG. The
first time is archived here:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.soc/msg/61f7dc9d6a3d7bc5?dmode=source
I'm not making it up. I was reminded of her when the Vatican issued those
new pastoral guidelines for road users, especially the bits about
"protecting the most vulnerable road users" and the reminder that cars are
a near occasion of sin.
-Luigi
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
|
| |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 17:47:01
From: John Everett
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:36:13 -0700, Duke of Hazard
<squash@peoriadesignweb.com > wrote:
>My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
>70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
>as well?
Okay I give up...what's a "brush passer"? And while we're at it, what
does "schewed" mean?
--
jeverett3<AT >sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)
|
| | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 10:54:00
From: Neil Brooks
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:47:01 GMT, John Everett
<jeverett3@sbcglobal.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net > wrote:
>On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:36:13 -0700, Duke of Hazard
><squash@peoriadesignweb.com> wrote:
>
>>My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
>>70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
>>as well?
>
>Okay I give up...
Already? ;-)
>what's a "brush passer"?
I had to read a few replies before I figured out that it's one who
passes by us so closely that they brush up against us.
>And while we're at it, what
>does "schewed" mean?
1) Aboriginal. Pronounced "shay-waid" means ... essentially ...
FUBAR;
2) Misspelling of 'skewed.'
3) Onomatopoeia for a sneeze.
All depends on context.
|
| |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 08:45:13
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Duke of Hazard wrote:
> My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
> 70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
> as well?
Well, give 'em credit for getting out in the woods.
|
| |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 15:04:08
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:54:06 -0500, Hell and High Water wrote:
> I find that a lot of the brush passers have a little fish on the back of
> their car...
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You are like
whitewashed tombs, which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are
full of dead men's bones and every kind of filth. Even so, on the outside
you appear righteous, but inside you are filled with hypocrisy and
wrongdoing." Matthew 23:27-28
My brother and I were riding to church (!) one Sunday when a
little old lady saw us on the road and swerved purposely to push us off
the road. No, she didn't just brush past, she actively hooked right and
revved her engine, sending us scampering into the shoulder.
We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH parking lot
that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were locking up our bicycles
and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us and shouted at me for
needlessly and recklessly endangering a young child. We were doubly
amazed. After all, *she* had been the only one recklessly endangering
anyone with her deliberate bullying on the road. All the other drivers we
encountered that day passed us safely, and didn't treat us like anything
else other than slow-moving traffic.
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
|
| | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 12:25:52
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Luigi de Guzman wrote:
> We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH parking lot
> that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were locking up our bicycles
> and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us and shouted at me for
> needlessly and recklessly endangering a young child. We were doubly
> amazed. After all, *she* had been the only one recklessly endangering
> anyone with her deliberate bullying on the road. All the other drivers we
> encountered that day passed us safely, and didn't treat us like anything
> else other than slow-moving traffic.
Religious person caught in hypocrisy -- film at 11.
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 18:19:28
From: brink
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"Peter Cole" <peter_cole@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:4qOdnbBo4_mNAQbbnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
>> We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH parking lot
>> that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were locking up our
>> bicycles
>> and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us and shouted at me for
>> needlessly and recklessly endangering a young child. We were doubly
>> amazed. After all, *she* had been the only one recklessly endangering
>> anyone with her deliberate bullying on the road. All the other drivers
>> we
>> encountered that day passed us safely, and didn't treat us like anything
>> else other than slow-moving traffic.
>
> Religious person caught in hypocrisy -- film at 11.
As they say, never ascribe to malice that which could be more likely
explained by incompetence. Sounds like the old lady probably got a scare
herself, nearly hitting a couple cyclists (by accident)... and then turned
that fear into misdirected anger at the cyclists... it's a common reaction
from ALL human beings.
brink
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 09:32:44
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Peter Cole wrote:
> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
>> We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH
>> parking lot that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were
>> locking up our bicycles and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us
>> and shouted at me for needlessly and recklessly endangering a young
>> child. We were doubly amazed. After all, *she* had been the only
>> one recklessly endangering anyone with her deliberate bullying on
>> the road. All the other drivers we encountered that day passed us
>> safely, and didn't treat us like anything else other than
>> slow-moving traffic.
>
> Religious person caught in hypocrisy -- film at 11.
Troll caught in lie (or blatant hyperbole) -- 24/7 on cable news.
|
| | | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 14:22:25
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Bill Sornson wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
>> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>>
>>> We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH
>>> parking lot that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were
>>> locking up our bicycles and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us
>>> and shouted at me for needlessly and recklessly endangering a young
>>> child. We were doubly amazed. After all, *she* had been the only
>>> one recklessly endangering anyone with her deliberate bullying on
>>> the road. All the other drivers we encountered that day passed us
>>> safely, and didn't treat us like anything else other than
>>> slow-moving traffic.
>> Religious person caught in hypocrisy -- film at 11.
>
> Troll caught in lie (or blatant hyperbole) -- 24/7 on cable news.
>
>
Maybe, I don't know, seems I've noticed something similar. I always
chalked it up to "law & order" types who were afraid to cross the median
when passing, & so squeeze the cyclist (lots of roads here in New
England are pretty narrow).
One time I managed to catch an old guy who had squeezed me badly and I
unleashed a stream of invective. He was very contrite, and admitted that
he hadn't realized that he came that close. Sometimes people just have
poor spacial perception -- that doesn't seem to get better with age. I'd
be the first one to react to ageism, but sometimes old eyes just aren't
what they should be, and many communities seem to be over tolerant about it.
Younger guys seem to do it deliberately. I know that because often they
are watching in the rear view & catch my flip off -- frequently they
return the salute, sometimes pulling over to scream obscenities --
something I'm usually pleased to exchange.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 01:45:23
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Peter Cole wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>>>
>>>> We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH
>>>> parking lot that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were
>>>> locking up our bicycles and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us
>>>> and shouted at me for needlessly and recklessly endangering a young
>>>> child. We were doubly amazed. After all, *she* had been the only
>>>> one recklessly endangering anyone with her deliberate bullying on
>>>> the road. All the other drivers we encountered that day passed us
>>>> safely, and didn't treat us like anything else other than
>>>> slow-moving traffic.
>>> Religious person caught in hypocrisy -- film at 11.
>>
>> Troll caught in lie (or blatant hyperbole) -- 24/7 on cable news.
>>
>
> Maybe, I don't know, seems I've noticed something similar. I always
> chalked it up to "law & order" types who were afraid to cross the median
> when passing, & so squeeze the cyclist (lots of roads here in New
> England are pretty narrow).
>
> One time I managed to catch an old guy who had squeezed me badly and I
> unleashed a stream of invective. He was very contrite, and admitted that
> he hadn't realized that he came that close. Sometimes people just have
> poor spacial perception -- that doesn't seem to get better with age. I'd
> be the first one to react to ageism, but sometimes old eyes just aren't
> what they should be, and many communities seem to be over tolerant about
> it.
>
> Younger guys seem to do it deliberately. I know that because often they
> are watching in the rear view & catch my flip off -- frequently they
> return the salute, sometimes pulling over to scream obscenities --
> something I'm usually pleased to exchange.
Come try that in da hood. Make sure your will is in order and life
insurance is paid up.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 11:30:05
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Peter Cole wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>>>
>>>> We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH
>>>> parking lot that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were
>>>> locking up our bicycles and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us
>>>> and shouted at me for needlessly and recklessly endangering a young
>>>> child. We were doubly amazed. After all, *she* had been the only
>>>> one recklessly endangering anyone with her deliberate bullying on
>>>> the road. All the other drivers we encountered that day passed us
>>>> safely, and didn't treat us like anything else other than
>>>> slow-moving traffic.
>>> Religious person caught in hypocrisy -- film at 11.
>>
>> Troll caught in lie (or blatant hyperbole) -- 24/7 on cable news.
>>
>>
>
> Maybe, I don't know, seems I've noticed something similar. I always
> chalked it up to "law & order" types who were afraid to cross the
> median when passing, & so squeeze the cyclist (lots of roads here in
> New England are pretty narrow).
>
> One time I managed to catch an old guy who had squeezed me badly and I
> unleashed a stream of invective. He was very contrite, and admitted
> that he hadn't realized that he came that close. Sometimes people just
> have
> poor spacial perception -- that doesn't seem to get better with age.
> I'd be the first one to react to ageism, but sometimes old eyes just
> aren't what they should be, and many communities seem to be over
> tolerant about it.
> Younger guys seem to do it deliberately. I know that because often
> they are watching in the rear view & catch my flip off -- frequently they
> return the salute, sometimes pulling over to scream obscenities --
> something I'm usually pleased to exchange.
No disagreement with what you say. Doesn't mean I believe the OP's story --
esp. the part about the woman standing up and shouting at them in church.
Doesn't pass the "pew" test, IMO.
BS (I think)
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 16:41:15
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Bill Sornson wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>>> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH
>>>>> parking lot that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were
>>>>> locking up our bicycles and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us
>>>>> and shouted at me for needlessly and recklessly endangering a young
>>>>> child. We were doubly amazed. After all, *she* had been the only
>>>>> one recklessly endangering anyone with her deliberate bullying on
>>>>> the road. All the other drivers we encountered that day passed us
>>>>> safely, and didn't treat us like anything else other than
>>>>> slow-moving traffic.
>>>> Religious person caught in hypocrisy -- film at 11.
>>> Troll caught in lie (or blatant hyperbole) -- 24/7 on cable news.
>>>
>>>
>> Maybe, I don't know, seems I've noticed something similar. I always
>> chalked it up to "law & order" types who were afraid to cross the
>> median when passing, & so squeeze the cyclist (lots of roads here in
>> New England are pretty narrow).
>>
>> One time I managed to catch an old guy who had squeezed me badly and I
>> unleashed a stream of invective. He was very contrite, and admitted
>> that he hadn't realized that he came that close. Sometimes people just
>> have
>> poor spacial perception -- that doesn't seem to get better with age.
>> I'd be the first one to react to ageism, but sometimes old eyes just
>> aren't what they should be, and many communities seem to be over
>> tolerant about it.
>> Younger guys seem to do it deliberately. I know that because often
>> they are watching in the rear view & catch my flip off -- frequently they
>> return the salute, sometimes pulling over to scream obscenities --
>> something I'm usually pleased to exchange.
>
> No disagreement with what you say. Doesn't mean I believe the OP's story --
> esp. the part about the woman standing up and shouting at them in church.
>
> Doesn't pass the "pew" test, IMO.
>
> BS (I think)
>
>
I don't know, I've seen some pretty egregious shit. One type-A
businesswoman harangued our table (Starbucks) full of cyclists (~20)
with how a group HAD ALMOST MADE HER MISS HER FLIGHT (not our group,
mind you). BTW, this "incident" happened on back road 20 miles from the
airport. I think she wanted us all to apologize and promise it would
never happen again.
I've also learned from experience that a whole lot of people consider
riding with kids in traffic to be child abuse (although I can't recall
ever being yelled at about it, it wouldn't have surprised me). There was
the time I got definite dagger eyes from a woman picnicking with her
family as I was duct taping (sticks better to sweaty skin) gauze to the
bleeding hip abrasion my son got after going over the bars on a ski
slope (rear brake on steep slopes, dammit!), that and maybe the fact
that I was pulling a 6 year old on a trailer bike...
Of course it's also not uncommon for people, when caught being jerks, to
try to bluff their way out of it -- best defense is good offense, & all
that.
I can believe it.
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 18:26:38
From: brink
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"Peter Cole" <peter_cole@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:zbadnbMkqrlxSgbbnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>>>> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH
>>>>>> parking lot that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were
>>>>>> locking up our bicycles and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us
>>>>>> and shouted at me for needlessly and recklessly endangering a young
>>>>>> child. We were doubly amazed. After all, *she* had been the only
>>>>>> one recklessly endangering anyone with her deliberate bullying on
>>>>>> the road. All the other drivers we encountered that day passed us
>>>>>> safely, and didn't treat us like anything else other than
>>>>>> slow-moving traffic.
>>>>> Religious person caught in hypocrisy -- film at 11.
>>>> Troll caught in lie (or blatant hyperbole) -- 24/7 on cable news.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Maybe, I don't know, seems I've noticed something similar. I always
>>> chalked it up to "law & order" types who were afraid to cross the
>>> median when passing, & so squeeze the cyclist (lots of roads here in
>>> New England are pretty narrow).
>>>
>>> One time I managed to catch an old guy who had squeezed me badly and I
>>> unleashed a stream of invective. He was very contrite, and admitted
>>> that he hadn't realized that he came that close. Sometimes people just
>>> have
>>> poor spacial perception -- that doesn't seem to get better with age.
>>> I'd be the first one to react to ageism, but sometimes old eyes just
>>> aren't what they should be, and many communities seem to be over
>>> tolerant about it.
>>> Younger guys seem to do it deliberately. I know that because often
>>> they are watching in the rear view & catch my flip off -- frequently
>>> they
>>> return the salute, sometimes pulling over to scream obscenities --
>>> something I'm usually pleased to exchange.
>>
>> No disagreement with what you say. Doesn't mean I believe the OP's
>> story -- esp. the part about the woman standing up and shouting at them
>> in church.
>>
>> Doesn't pass the "pew" test, IMO.
>>
>> BS (I think)
>
> I don't know, I've seen some pretty egregious shit. One type-A
> businesswoman harangued our table (Starbucks) full of cyclists (~20) with
> how a group HAD ALMOST MADE HER MISS HER FLIGHT (not our group, mind you).
> BTW, this "incident" happened on back road 20 miles from the airport. I
> think she wanted us all to apologize and promise it would never happen
> again.
I've seen videos of people harassing SUV drivers with rude bumper stickers,
confrontations, etc. (basically politically-charged "You're destroying the
world!!!1!1!!!" ranting completely unmotivated by anything other than the
target driving an SUV). I don't doubt the veracity of the facts of the
story other than the interpretation of the intent to run someone off the
road. That doesn't pass Occam's razor for me...
>
> I've also learned from experience that a whole lot of people consider
> riding with kids in traffic to be child abuse (although I can't recall
> ever being yelled at about it, it wouldn't have surprised me). There was
> the time I got definite dagger eyes from a woman picnicking with her
> family as I was duct taping (sticks better to sweaty skin) gauze to the
> bleeding hip abrasion my son got after going over the bars on a ski slope
> (rear brake on steep slopes, dammit!), that and maybe the fact that I was
> pulling a 6 year old on a trailer bike...
>
> Of course it's also not uncommon for people, when caught being jerks, to
> try to bluff their way out of it -- best defense is good offense, & all
> that.
Exactly, that's what I thought when I read the story.
brink
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 01:51:48
From: Jim Flom
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"brink" <brink@invalid.invald > wrote...
>
> I've seen videos of people harassing SUV drivers with rude bumper
> stickers, confrontations, etc. (basically politically-charged "You're
> destroying the world!!!1!1!!!" ranting completely unmotivated by anything
> other than the target driving an SUV). I don't doubt the veracity of the
> facts of the story other than the interpretation of the intent to run
> someone off the road. That doesn't pass Occam's razor for me...
Neil Young tells a story of driving his vegetable oil (or whatever) powered
Hummer around and getting razzed by the greenies for it, and then (I can
only suppose with sinister delight) telling them how much greener he's
drving than they are.
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 12:05:01
From: Ben Pfaff
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me > writes:
> No disagreement with what you say. Doesn't mean I believe the OP's story --
> esp. the part about the woman standing up and shouting at them in church.
>
> Doesn't pass the "pew" test, IMO.
What a horrible pun.
--
Ben Pfaff
http://benpfaff.org
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 12:22:58
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Ben Pfaff wrote:
> "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> writes:
>
>> No disagreement with what you say. Doesn't mean I believe the OP's
>> story -- esp. the part about the woman standing up and shouting at
>> them in church.
>>
>> Doesn't pass the "pew" test, IMO.
> What a horrible pun.
Nun of your bidness!
Bill "weak week" S.
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 14:49:59
From: dgk
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:30:05 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me >
wrote:
>Peter Cole wrote:
>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>>> Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We were amazed to see her turn left INTO THE VERY SAME CHURCH
>>>>> parking lot that we were headed towards ourselves! As we were
>>>>> locking up our bicycles and getting ready to hear Mass, she saw us
>>>>> and shouted at me for needlessly and recklessly endangering a young
>>>>> child. We were doubly amazed. After all, *she* had been the only
>>>>> one recklessly endangering anyone with her deliberate bullying on
>>>>> the road. All the other drivers we encountered that day passed us
>>>>> safely, and didn't treat us like anything else other than
>>>>> slow-moving traffic.
>>>> Religious person caught in hypocrisy -- film at 11.
>>>
>>> Troll caught in lie (or blatant hyperbole) -- 24/7 on cable news.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Maybe, I don't know, seems I've noticed something similar. I always
>> chalked it up to "law & order" types who were afraid to cross the
>> median when passing, & so squeeze the cyclist (lots of roads here in
>> New England are pretty narrow).
>>
>> One time I managed to catch an old guy who had squeezed me badly and I
>> unleashed a stream of invective. He was very contrite, and admitted
>> that he hadn't realized that he came that close. Sometimes people just
>> have
>> poor spacial perception -- that doesn't seem to get better with age.
>> I'd be the first one to react to ageism, but sometimes old eyes just
>> aren't what they should be, and many communities seem to be over
>> tolerant about it.
>> Younger guys seem to do it deliberately. I know that because often
>> they are watching in the rear view & catch my flip off -- frequently they
>> return the salute, sometimes pulling over to scream obscenities --
>> something I'm usually pleased to exchange.
>
>No disagreement with what you say. Doesn't mean I believe the OP's story --
>esp. the part about the woman standing up and shouting at them in church.
>
>Doesn't pass the "pew" test, IMO.
>
>BS (I think)
>
I don't know why not. The shout was apparently outside the church,
unless they were locking the bikes inside the church which would not
seem likely. Nope, it seems reasonable to me.
|
| |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 06:56:13
From: Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
On Jul 16, 12:36 am, Duke of Hazard <squ...@peoriadesignweb.com >
wrote:
> My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
> 70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
> as well?
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 01:13:13
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote:
> On Jul 16, 12:36 am, Duke of Hazard <squ...@peoriadesignweb.com>
> wrote:
>> My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
>> 70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
>> as well?
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 9 +10Db +20Db +30Db
> TROLL-O-METER
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 9 +10Db +20Db +30Db
> DUMB-O-METER
Next thread, coming soon:
Why are most of the people who yell at you from the passenger seat teenage
boys?
followed by
Why do men like women with big tits?
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 01:57:44
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
Mike Kruger wrote:
> Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote:
>> On Jul 16, 12:36 am, Duke of Hazard <squ...@peoriadesignweb.com>
>> wrote:
>>> My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
>>> 70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
>>> as well?
>> 9 +10Db +20Db +30Db
>> TROLL-O-METER
>>
>>
>> 9 +10Db +20Db +30Db
>> DUMB-O-METER
This looks really funky on Thunderbird (Mozilla, not Gallo) with the
colored quote hierarchy bars.
> Next thread, coming soon:
> Why are most of the people who yell at you from the passenger seat teenage
> boys?
Teenage girls can be just as bad.
> followed by
> Why do men like women with big tits?
These often look much better wrapped than unwrapped, particularly the
ones with implants. Medium size ones usually have a better shape and do
not sag.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 08:54:06
From: Hell and High Water
Subject: Re: Why are most older people brush passers?
|
In article <1184560573.417773.151650@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
squash@peoriadesignweb.com says...
> My observation is that a large percentage of brush passers tend to be
> 70+ year old drivers? Are my stats schewed or do other's notice this
> as well?
I find that a lot of the brush passers have a little fish on the back of
their car...
HWJD?
-Bob
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