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Date: 18 Sep 2006 16:56:39
From: tom fugate
Subject: frame painting
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anyone know a good source on frame painting how to??
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 16:11:29
From: Grolch
Subject: Re: frame painting
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Good day,
To qualify my credentials to comment on this topic - I am a NACE (National
Association of Corrosion Engineers) certified coating inspector and have
worked in the paint and coatings industry since 1979. For pure durability
and ease I would absolutely recommend powder coating. There are many
different types of coatings from fusion bonded epoxy to polyester urethane.
I suggest that the polyester urethane is by far the most durable in terms of
impact resistance, colour retention and gloss retention plus has exceptional
solvent resistance. Probably the next best choice would be Solvented
Polyester Urethane (as opposed to solventless as in powder coating). Brands
such as Imron or better yet Endura should be investigated. Spraying
solvented Polyurethane is NOT a job for an amateur. They are hazardous
(icocyanates) and can make even great painters look foolish if they are not
really familiar with the material. A motorcycle or automotive shop is
probable the place to look. Bicycle frames are difficult to spray because of
the multiple angles and such. keeping a "wet-edge" while spraying is
essential to a smooth finish yet difficult due to the configuration of the
frame. Powder coating has the distinct advantage of having slightly better
"film build" at sharp edges due to the elactrostatic deposition. I do wonder
about the baking temperatures if you are coating a frame with lugged and
brazed frame. What is the bake temp vs. what is the melting point of the
brazing alloy?
For me, I have a 2006 Catrike Road with a fantastic Candy apple green powder
coat and I am in the process of restoring a 1991 Bridgestone MB-1 (lugged
Ritchey Logic Tubing) and intend to powder coat. First I will "bead blast"
the frame to remove ALL old coatings, then powder coat using zinc followed
by polyester urethane. I expect to pay about $150.00 cdn for the work but I
generally get very good prices because I am in the industry.
OTOH, If all you want to do is pretty up an old frame then by all means get
yourself some spray cans. I would start with a good primer, zinc chromate
for aluminum and red-oxide for steel. I would then use acrylic for the
topcoats Keep the coats light and "build the film" letting it tack-off
(partially dry) in between coats. Expect as many as 6 coats. Note that
acrylics develop their final hardness weeks after being applied so be
patient. Acrylic has the added advantage of being water-borne thus safer.
"tom fugate" <tfugate@geocities.com > wrote in message
news:uKDPg.41$_h1.7@newsfe04.lga...
> anyone know a good source on frame painting how to??
>
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 08:17:03
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: frame painting
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R Brickston wrote:
> On 20 Sep 2006 06:34:46 -0700, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
> <ian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Which leads me to ask since my Cannondale's paint job got a nasty bit
> >of damage on the way over here (and no I can't blame the airline, it
> >was my fault from something sharp that wasn't secured well) ... I'd
> >been thinking of having the damaged spot and the "nnondale" sandblasted
> >off and getting an automotive painting place to repaint just that area
> >in the same black and green color scheme with something cute like
> >"???????""Be careful of the rose's thorns" which a)
> >comes from a pop song, b) is relevant because mountain bikers should
> >watch out for thorns and c) refers to my Chinese name.
> >
> >Is it possible to just get _part_ of a frame repainted??
> >
> >-M
>
> Iwouldn't think sand blasting is the way to remove the damaged paint.
The person who first suggested repainting doesn't speak English. The
word she used regarding the removal of damaged paint was "sand" and
some other phoneme I don't know. I guessed at this being
"sandblasting."
> Probably wet sanding starting with 600 grit and working up to
> 800-1000, then blend in with new paint.
But it should be doable without having to remove all the paint and
start from scratch? Yay!
> Auto paint guys don't usually do small jobs like that, I'd try a motorcycle specialist.
The guys at the little bike shop are supposed to be looking for someone
for me. Most of the people who have had their bikes painted have gone
with solid colors and self designed decals. I'm looking for something
a bit fancier than that.
-M
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 08:18:26
From:
Subject: Re: frame painting
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If you want to get the metal really clean and shiny prior to priming,
don't use a 3M ScotchBrite pad. Instead mount a 3M Scotch-Brite 9099
or the equivalent abrasive web pad in your electric drill, mount the
frame in a vise and go to it.
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 06:34:46
From: marian.rosenberg@gmail.com
Subject: Re: frame painting
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R Brickston wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:11:29 -0700, Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:06:01 GMT, R Brickston
> ><rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> replied:
> >
> >>>I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
> >>>The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
> >>>I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
> >>>almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
> >>>terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
> >>>and coating.
> >>>
> >>>I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
> >>>next. I'm thinking "camo".
> >>
> >>You should try automotive paint if you're going the "bomb" route.
> >>
> >>http://www.expresspaint.com/
> >>
> >>is one paint supplier. BTW, it's all in the preperation of the
> >>surface, wet sanding between coats, etc.
> >
> >I used "chassis and roll-bar" paint and it didn't hold up as well as
> >plain ol' rust paint. Preparation is down to bare metal, buffed with
> >Scotch pads and wiped with solvent before beginning the primer coats.
> >Wet sanding too is part of the routine.
>
> If it's aluminum, you have to etch it with some kind of acid, although
> I have seen self-etching primers.
Which leads me to ask since my Cannondale's paint job got a nasty bit
of damage on the way over here (and no I can't blame the airline, it
was my fault from something sharp that wasn't secured well) ... I'd
been thinking of having the damaged spot and the "nnondale" sandblasted
off and getting an automotive painting place to repaint just that area
in the same black and green color scheme with something cute like
"=E5=B0=8F=E5=BF=83=E5=B8=A6=E7=BC=8C=E6=9C=89=E7=8E=AB=E7=91=B0=E2=80=9D"B=
e careful of the rose's thorns" which a)
comes from a pop song, b) is relevant because mountain biker's should
watch out for thorns and c) refers to my Chinese name.
Is it possible to just get _part_ of a frame repainted??
-M
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 14:12:51
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: frame painting
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On 20 Sep 2006 06:34:46 -0700, "ian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
<ian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>R Brickston wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:11:29 -0700, Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:06:01 GMT, R Brickston
>> ><rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> replied:
>> >
>> >>>I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
>> >>>The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
>> >>>I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
>> >>>almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
>> >>>terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
>> >>>and coating.
>> >>>
>> >>>I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
>> >>>next. I'm thinking "camo".
>> >>
>> >>You should try automotive paint if you're going the "bomb" route.
>> >>
>> >>http://www.expresspaint.com/
>> >>
>> >>is one paint supplier. BTW, it's all in the preperation of the
>> >>surface, wet sanding between coats, etc.
>> >
>> >I used "chassis and roll-bar" paint and it didn't hold up as well as
>> >plain ol' rust paint. Preparation is down to bare metal, buffed with
>> >Scotch pads and wiped with solvent before beginning the primer coats.
>> >Wet sanding too is part of the routine.
>>
>> If it's aluminum, you have to etch it with some kind of acid, although
>> I have seen self-etching primers.
>
>Which leads me to ask since my Cannondale's paint job got a nasty bit
>of damage on the way over here (and no I can't blame the airline, it
>was my fault from something sharp that wasn't secured well) ... I'd
>been thinking of having the damaged spot and the "nnondale" sandblasted
>off and getting an automotive painting place to repaint just that area
>in the same black and green color scheme with something cute like
>"???????”"Be careful of the rose's thorns" which a)
>comes from a pop song, b) is relevant because mountain biker's should
>watch out for thorns and c) refers to my Chinese name.
>
>Is it possible to just get _part_ of a frame repainted??
>
>-M
Iwouldn't think sand blasting is the way to remove the damaged paint.
Probably wet sanding starting with 600 grit and working up to
800-1000, then blend in with new paint. Auto paint guys don't usually
do small jobs like that, I'd try a motorcycle specialist.
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Date: 18 Sep 2006 19:49:47
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: frame painting
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On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:56:39 -0400, "tom fugate"
<tfugate@geocities.com > wrote:
>anyone know a good source on frame painting how to??
>
My friend Rob.
He paints DeKerf's and Rocky Mountain's high-end bikes, among others.
He uses liquid paints. .
Rob and the powder coater I also know aren't on speaking terms but
the cost of a single colour powder coat is very attractive compared
to Rob's jobs. It's also a better value than any spray-bomb coating.
Powder-coat is hard to scratch but harder to touch-up convincingly.
I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
and coating.
I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
next. I'm thinking "camo".
--
zk
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Date: 19 Sep 2006 03:06:01
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: frame painting
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On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:49:47 -0700, Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com >
wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:56:39 -0400, "tom fugate"
><tfugate@geocities.com> wrote:
>
>>anyone know a good source on frame painting how to??
>>
>My friend Rob.
>
>He paints DeKerf's and Rocky Mountain's high-end bikes, among others.
>He uses liquid paints. .
>
>Rob and the powder coater I also know aren't on speaking terms but
>the cost of a single colour powder coat is very attractive compared
>to Rob's jobs. It's also a better value than any spray-bomb coating.
>Powder-coat is hard to scratch but harder to touch-up convincingly.
>
>I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
>The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
>I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
>almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
>terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
>and coating.
>
>I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
>next. I'm thinking "camo".
You should try automotive paint if you're going the "bomb" route.
http://www.expresspaint.com/
is one paint supplier. BTW, it's all in the preperation of the
surface, wet sanding between coats, etc.
I read somewhere that some bike manufacturer's (Trek?) use(d) Imron
which is a really hard paint after it cures.
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Date: 18 Sep 2006 21:11:29
From: Zoot Katz
Subject: Re: frame painting
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On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:06:01 GMT, R Brickston
<rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ > replied:
>>I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
>>The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
>>I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
>>almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
>>terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
>>and coating.
>>
>>I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
>>next. I'm thinking "camo".
>
>You should try automotive paint if you're going the "bomb" route.
>
>http://www.expresspaint.com/
>
>is one paint supplier. BTW, it's all in the preperation of the
>surface, wet sanding between coats, etc.
I used "chassis and roll-bar" paint and it didn't hold up as well as
plain ol' rust paint. Preparation is down to bare metal, buffed with
Scotch pads and wiped with solvent before beginning the primer coats.
Wet sanding too is part of the routine.
>
>I read somewhere that some bike manufacturer's (Trek?) use(d) Imron
>which is a really hard paint after it cures.
I have a bike done in Imron. It's held up well except the touch up
paint no longer matches the faded colour.
Rob said Trek's primer is the best he's seen. It resists his dip
tank.
He also passed on the tip that aircraft epoxy primers don't contain
the heavy fillers found in automotive epoxies.
--
zk
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Date: 19 Sep 2006 06:04:18
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: frame painting
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On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:11:29 -0700, Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com >
wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:06:01 GMT, R Brickston
><rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> replied:
>
>>>I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
>>>The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
>>>I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
>>>almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
>>>terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
>>>and coating.
>>>
>>>I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
>>>next. I'm thinking "camo".
>>
>>You should try automotive paint if you're going the "bomb" route.
>>
>>http://www.expresspaint.com/
>>
>>is one paint supplier. BTW, it's all in the preperation of the
>>surface, wet sanding between coats, etc.
>
>I used "chassis and roll-bar" paint and it didn't hold up as well as
>plain ol' rust paint. Preparation is down to bare metal, buffed with
>Scotch pads and wiped with solvent before beginning the primer coats.
>Wet sanding too is part of the routine.
If it's aluminum, you have to etch it with some kind of acid, although
I have seen self-etching primers.
>>
>>I read somewhere that some bike manufacturer's (Trek?) use(d) Imron
>>which is a really hard paint after it cures.
>
>I have a bike done in Imron. It's held up well except the touch up
>paint no longer matches the faded colour.
>
>Rob said Trek's primer is the best he's seen. It resists his dip
>tank.
>
>He also passed on the tip that aircraft epoxy primers don't contain
>the heavy fillers found in automotive epoxies.
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Date: 18 Sep 2006 19:21:02
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: frame painting
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On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:56:39 -0400, tom fugate wrote:
> anyone know a good source on frame painting how to??
Don't. That is, unless you are experienced with painting cars, etc., and
have all that fancy equipment, don't paint your own. For the same money
as spray cans will cost (OK, maybe a bit more), you can get a powder-coat
finish that is extremely durable and beautiful, rather than something that
chips as soon as you ride it.
I did two old bikes with spray cans, then when the track frame got ugly in
a few weeks, I had it powder coated something like 5-7 years ago, and it
is still beautiful. It cost $100 for the frame, plus $50 to chrome the
fork (which did not last).
Now, if you want to restore an original Colnago paintjob, or do all the
pinstriping and decals, you might want to look at a specialty place that
knows all about that. But to just make it look good and stay that way,
IMO powder coat is the way to go.
--
David L. Johnson
__o
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 14:41:13
From: Chris Y.F.N.W.
Subject: Re: frame painting
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Don't I tried that route, and some attempts were actualy quite nice (the
last one even took an award at the Great Western bicycle Rally). But
unless you want to invest in a quality paint gun, compressor, quality
paint (expensive) and an oven to properly bake it on, you're better off
asking your LBS for a professional painter. They aren't all "Cycl-ART"
expensive. I had mine redone recently with a two tone candy apple. It
turned out goegeous and it only set me back $200.00.
- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner
To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net
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