| |
Main
Date: 08 Feb 2007 17:15:07
From: runcyclexcski@yahoo.com
Subject: poisoning yourself by riding
|
http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=code_red
Has anyone here experienced chronic lung sickness that can be traced
back to when they started riding more/harder?
I think I have developed chronic lung inflammation after an enjoable
season of riding on urban CA. By riding a road bike alongside with
cars you are reduce polution and get in shape, but you are poison
yourself with car emissions. Cyclists, especially when going hard,
expose their lower airways and alveoli to pollution at least 10 times
more compared to the case of no exertion (i.e. compared to car
drivers). A cyclist going hard passes at least 100 lliters of air
through his/her lungs per minute (compared to ~10 liters per minute
when not exertiing, assuming 500 ml average breaths and ~20 breaths
per minute). Not everyone will develop problems, but susceptible
people will. If I could go back, I would have switched to m.biking or
trail running.
|
|
| |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 17:42:31
From: John Kane
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
On Feb 8, 8:44 pm, "runcyclexc...@yahoo.com" <runcyclexc...@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> On Feb 8, 5:29 pm, k Hickey <m...@habcycles.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "runcyclexc...@yahoo.com" <runcyclexc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=code_red
>
> > >Has anyone here experienced chronic lung sickness that can be traced
> > >back to when they started riding more/harder?
>
> > >I think I have developed chronic lung inflammation after an enjoable
> > >season of riding on urban CA. By riding a road bike alongside with
> > >cars you are reduce polution and get in shape, but you are poison
> > >yourself with car emissions. Cyclists, especially when going hard,
> > >expose their lower airways and alveoli to pollution at least 10 times
> > >more compared to the case of no exertion (i.e. compared to car
> > >drivers). A cyclist going hard passes at least 100 lliters of air
> > >through his/her lungs per minute (compared to ~10 liters per minute
> > >when not exertiing, assuming 500 ml average breaths and ~20 breaths
> > >per minute). Not everyone will develop problems, but susceptible
> > >people will. If I could go back, I would have switched to m.biking or
> > >trail running.
>
> > Hmmmmm... the information I've read suggests that the air the cyclists
> > breath is CLEANER than that of the motorist (at least, those in a
> > closed vehicle), because of the trapping of the noxious gasses in the
> > cockpit, and the fact that they tend to trail along nose to tail.
> > You're absolutely right about us using more air though - but I have to
> > wonder how much getting in "in and out in a hurry" matters to how much
> > nasty stuff actually gets absorbed.
>
> The air could be cleaner (I doubt it... I kee my car windows closed
> anyway), but it would have to be 10 times cleaner to make biking safer
> than driving.
And where is that air that you're breathing coming from? If anything
it apparently is worse in a car than as cyclist since the car air
intakes are lower than the cyclist's air intakes and auto emissions
are less dense as distance from the ground increases.
|
| | |
Date: 10 Feb 2007 18:06:18
From: nash
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
And where is that air that you're breathing coming from? If anything
> it apparently is worse in a car than as cyclist since the car air
> intakes are lower than the cyclist's air intakes and auto emissions
> are less dense as distance from the ground increases.
>
I have heard that before also but it you keep the drafts and windows shut it
seems to me I smell nothing. It may be odorless but if you keep everything
shut they do not seem to account for that. So it would depend.
Stopping at a light has got to be the worst too since they are all spewing
and you not being able to get out of the way of the carbon monoxide.
|
| | | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 00:04:25
From: Bill Baka
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
nash wrote:
> And where is that air that you're breathing coming from? If anything
>> it apparently is worse in a car than as cyclist since the car air
>> intakes are lower than the cyclist's air intakes and auto emissions
>> are less dense as distance from the ground increases.
>>
>
> I have heard that before also but it you keep the drafts and windows shut it
> seems to me I smell nothing. It may be odorless but if you keep everything
> shut they do not seem to account for that. So it would depend.
> Stopping at a light has got to be the worst too since they are all spewing
> and you not being able to get out of the way of the carbon monoxide.
>
>
The upside of this is that cars are not hermetically sealed, no matter
what the maker would have you believe. If the car is moving you get flow
through the car, along with you daily dose of engine leftovers.
Bill Baka
|
| |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 14:00:03
From: runcyclexcski@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
> Sorry. I realize that's basically what you said, but ....
The OP was about warning people that riding (especially riding hard)
is not necessarily a healthy thing to do, at least in polluted areas,
and to ask if anyone has had similar experience getting sick and,
probably, getting appropriate treatment (i haven't got any yet).
|
| | |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 17:27:29
From: Pat
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
But, your posts come across as saying you haven't heard anything from the
doctors that you AGREE with--not that they haven't said anything. It sounds
as if you haven't heard what you want to hear, so you call the doctors
"jokes." Did they put you in one of those sealed diagnostic chambers? A
friend of mine had that done once and the doc told him that he had a virus
which just takes its own time to resolve.....
|
| |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 12:12:15
From: runcyclexcski@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
> The bottom line is, don't tell us that lung specialists are "jokes." That
> says more about you than it does about the doctors.
The sole fact that I still don't have a diagnosis after more than a
year, and have to resort to speculations and asking people around on
the UseNet says it all. In fact, I think the whole healthcare system
is a "joke".
|
| | |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 13:13:03
From: Neil Brooks
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
runcyclexcski@yahoo.com wrote:
>> The bottom line is, don't tell us that lung specialists are "jokes." That
>> says more about you than it does about the doctors.
>
> The sole fact that I still don't have a diagnosis after more than a
> year, and have to resort to speculations and asking people around on
> the UseNet says it all. In fact, I think the whole healthcare system
> is a "joke".
If you have contempt for the entire health care system, have you
considered asking for help from a broad range of people--say over the
Internet--who have never met you and have absolutely NO medical training
whatsoever?
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 13:13:43
From: Neil Brooks
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
Neil Brooks wrote:
> runcyclexcski@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> The bottom line is, don't tell us that lung specialists are "jokes."
>>> That
>>> says more about you than it does about the doctors.
>>
>> The sole fact that I still don't have a diagnosis after more than a
>> year, and have to resort to speculations and asking people around on
>> the UseNet says it all. In fact, I think the whole healthcare system
>> is a "joke".
>
> If you have contempt for the entire health care system, have you
> considered asking for help from a broad range of people--say over the
> Internet--who have never met you and have absolutely NO medical training
> whatsoever?
Sorry. I realize that's basically what you said, but ....
|
| |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 05:39:07
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
On Feb 8, 9:24 pm, k Hickey <m...@habcycles.com > wrote:
> "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu> wrote:
>
> >k Hickey wrote:
>
> >> I've ridden in places that would make the air in Los Angeles look
> >> positively pristine, and never had any major lung issues (though I
> >> could feel "something wrong" after a long ride in really bad air).
>
> >OK, k. I'll bite. Where would the air in LA seem pristine by
> >comparison?
>
> China, for example (and Khatmandu, Nepal - which came as a real
> surprise to me - I was expecting the air to be pristine there). On a
> bad day in China, you literally couldn't see a hint of a building
> across a city street.
>
> k Hickey
> Habanero Cycleshttp://www.habcycles.com
> Home of the $795 ti frame
Great, I'm sure they care about the recent conference in France.
|
| |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 22:47:36
From: peter
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
k Hickey wrote:
> "runcyclexcski@yahoo.com" <runcyclexcski@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=code_red
> >
> >Has anyone here experienced chronic lung sickness that can be traced
> >back to when they started riding more/harder?
> >
> >I think I have developed chronic lung inflammation after an enjoable
> >season of riding on urban CA. By riding a road bike alongside with
> >cars you are reduce polution and get in shape, but you are poison
> >yourself with car emissions.
...
> Hmmmmm... the information I've read suggests that the air the cyclists
> breath is CLEANER than that of the motorist (at least, those in a
> closed vehicle), because of the trapping of the noxious gasses in the
> cockpit, and the fact that they tend to trail along nose to tail.
That agrees with what I remember of a study done many
years ago in the Washington, DC area comparing cycle
commuters to motorists along the same route. As I recall,
they took blood samples and analyzed them for the
presence of air pollution components and concluded
that the cyclists were less affected than the motorists.
I believe there was a sumy of the study in the LAB
(LAW back then) magazine. Unfortunately I don't
recall the details and couldn't find online references.
In addition to the cars traveling ' nose to tail' there is also
the factor that car air intakes are generally lower than
cyclists' heads. Also the cyclist has more of an
opportunity to minimize exposure to spot concentrations
of pollution - on my bike I'll slow down and hold my breath for
a short period if a truck comes by belching black smoke.
|
| |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 22:34:02
From: runcyclexcski@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
I did not say that I was paranoid about ozone specifically; in fact, I
react to small particulate pollution - PM2.5, and not to ozone (by
following air quality forcasts which report at least 5 different
pollutants - CO, NO2, O3, PM10, PM2.5, etc).
|
| |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 05:57:34
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=code_red
>
> Has anyone here experienced chronic lung sickness that can be traced
> back to when they started riding more/harder?
>
> I think I have developed chronic lung inflammation after an enjoable
> season of riding on urban CA. By riding a road bike alongside with
> cars you are reduce polution and get in shape, but you are poison
> yourself with car emissions. Cyclists, especially when going hard,
> expose their lower airways and alveoli to pollution at least 10 times
> more compared to the case of no exertion (i.e. compared to car
> drivers). A cyclist going hard passes at least 100 lliters of air
> through his/her lungs per minute (compared to ~10 liters per minute
> when not exertiing, assuming 500 ml average breaths and ~20 breaths
> per minute). Not everyone will develop problems, but susceptible
> people will. If I could go back, I would have switched to m.biking or
> trail running.
Regarding the article you referenced... if you follow the science, rather
than the emotion, you discover an interesting thing about ozone formation.
Something I didn't know until looking this up just now. Check out this link-
http://www.arb.ca.gov/aqd/weekendeffect/arb-final/wee_tsd_ch2_6.pdf
There's a phenomenon called "ozone quenching" which occurs in the areas
where nitrogen oxides are emitted by gas-burning vehicles. Thus ozone
monitoring facilities located near freeways & bus terminals etc show
*depressed* levels of ozone. Because ozone isn't formed at ground level...
it occurs higher up in the air. Autos belching out bad stuff are bad, but
the immediate effect on the area in which you're riding, as far as ozone is
concerned, is ironically beneficial. Very bizarre.
Of course, ozone is only a piece of the puzzle. There are many other things
coming out of tailpipes that are undeniably bad for you. But if you're
worried about ozone, you're likely to get MORE of it, not less, by choosing
mountain biking or trail running. Strange but true.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 20:11:58
From:
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
runcyclexcski@yahoo.com wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=code_red
>
> Has anyone here experienced chronic lung sickness that can be traced
> back to when they started riding more/harder?
>
> I think I have developed chronic lung inflammation after an enjoable
> season of riding on urban CA. By riding a road bike alongside with
> cars you are reduce polution and get in shape, but you are poison
> yourself with car emissions. Cyclists, especially when going hard,
> expose their lower airways and alveoli to pollution at least 10 times
> more compared to the case of no exertion (i.e. compared to car
> drivers). A cyclist going hard passes at least 100 lliters of air
> through his/her lungs per minute (compared to ~10 liters per minute
> when not exertiing, assuming 500 ml average breaths and ~20 breaths
> per minute). Not everyone will develop problems, but susceptible
> people will. If I could go back, I would have switched to m.biking or
> trail running.
Some have postulated that ozone damage to
the lungs is cumulative and irreversible.
The air was so bad in Denver today that
you couldn't see three #$@!*$# blocks.
I hope your lungs get better.
Robert
|
| |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 19:23:20
From: runcyclexcski@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
> Get yourself to a lung specialist. Don't speculate.
I've had many, and they were all a joke (including very honored ones).
did you brochitis resolve when you left Berlin?
|
| | |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 08:36:52
From: Pat
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
>> Get yourself to a lung specialist. Don't speculate.
>
> I've had many, and they were all a joke (including very honored ones).
>
> did you brochitis resolve when you left Berlin?
1. Yes, it resolved in 3 weeks. In the meantime, I was sick as a dog.
2. This comment reminds me of my mother who used to get all of her medical
advice from her friends in her Sunday school class. I would ask her how
many of her friends had been to medical school....
The bottom line is, don't tell us that lung specialists are "jokes." That
says more about you than it does about the doctors.
Pat in TX
>
|
| | |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 11:58:38
From: fluffy bunny
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
In article <1170991400.181327.202020@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com >,
"runcyclexcski@yahoo.com" <runcyclexcski@yahoo.com > wrote:
> > Get yourself to a lung specialist. Don't speculate.
>
> I've had many, and they were all a joke (including very honored ones).
this is kind of a red flag to me.
.max
|
| |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 21:15:42
From: Pat
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
>
> I think I have developed chronic lung inflammation after an enjoable
> season of riding on urban CA.
Get yourself to a lung specialist. Don't speculate.
|
| |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 18:54:50
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
On Feb 9, 9:52 am, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> k Hickey wrote:
> > I've ridden in places that would make the air in Los Angeles look
> > positively pristine, and never had any major lung issues (though I
> > could feel "something wrong" after a long ride in really bad air).
>
> OK, k. I'll bite. Where would the air in LA seem pristine by
> comparison?
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
> I believe that the motion picture is destined to revolutionize our
> educational system and that in a few years it will supplant largely,
> if not entirely, the use of textbooks -- Thomas Edison, 1922
Mexico City, or some heavy industrialized city in China.
|
| |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 17:44:06
From: runcyclexcski@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
On Feb 8, 5:29 pm, k Hickey <m...@habcycles.com > wrote:
> "runcyclexc...@yahoo.com" <runcyclexc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=code_red
>
> >Has anyone here experienced chronic lung sickness that can be traced
> >back to when they started riding more/harder?
>
> >I think I have developed chronic lung inflammation after an enjoable
> >season of riding on urban CA. By riding a road bike alongside with
> >cars you are reduce polution and get in shape, but you are poison
> >yourself with car emissions. Cyclists, especially when going hard,
> >expose their lower airways and alveoli to pollution at least 10 times
> >more compared to the case of no exertion (i.e. compared to car
> >drivers). A cyclist going hard passes at least 100 lliters of air
> >through his/her lungs per minute (compared to ~10 liters per minute
> >when not exertiing, assuming 500 ml average breaths and ~20 breaths
> >per minute). Not everyone will develop problems, but susceptible
> >people will. If I could go back, I would have switched to m.biking or
> >trail running.
>
> Hmmmmm... the information I've read suggests that the air the cyclists
> breath is CLEANER than that of the motorist (at least, those in a
> closed vehicle), because of the trapping of the noxious gasses in the
> cockpit, and the fact that they tend to trail along nose to tail.
> You're absolutely right about us using more air though - but I have to
> wonder how much getting in "in and out in a hurry" matters to how much
> nasty stuff actually gets absorbed.
The air could be cleaner (I doubt it... I kee my car windows closed
anyway), but it would have to be 10 times cleaner to make biking safer
than driving.
I read that what separates elite athletes from others is the exposure
of their lower airways to the elements when breathing. There is no
distrinct boundary here: when you are riding you are naturally
breathing deeper.. If you are going hard, you are exposing your lower
airways.
> I've ridden in places that would make the air in Los Angeles look
> positively pristine, and never had any major lung issues (though I
> could feel "something wrong" after a long ride in really bad air).
You've got good genes. Just like those people who smoke and live to
100.
|
| |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 18:29:09
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
"runcyclexcski@yahoo.com" <runcyclexcski@yahoo.com > wrote:
>http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=code_red
>
>Has anyone here experienced chronic lung sickness that can be traced
>back to when they started riding more/harder?
>
>I think I have developed chronic lung inflammation after an enjoable
>season of riding on urban CA. By riding a road bike alongside with
>cars you are reduce polution and get in shape, but you are poison
>yourself with car emissions. Cyclists, especially when going hard,
>expose their lower airways and alveoli to pollution at least 10 times
>more compared to the case of no exertion (i.e. compared to car
>drivers). A cyclist going hard passes at least 100 lliters of air
>through his/her lungs per minute (compared to ~10 liters per minute
>when not exertiing, assuming 500 ml average breaths and ~20 breaths
>per minute). Not everyone will develop problems, but susceptible
>people will. If I could go back, I would have switched to m.biking or
>trail running.
Hmmmmm... the information I've read suggests that the air the cyclists
breath is CLEANER than that of the motorist (at least, those in a
closed vehicle), because of the trapping of the noxious gasses in the
cockpit, and the fact that they tend to trail along nose to tail.
You're absolutely right about us using more air though - but I have to
wonder how much getting in "in and out in a hurry" matters to how much
nasty stuff actually gets absorbed.
I've ridden in places that would make the air in Los Angeles look
positively pristine, and never had any major lung issues (though I
could feel "something wrong" after a long ride in really bad air).
k Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
|
| | |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 20:52:46
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
k Hickey wrote:
> I've ridden in places that would make the air in Los Angeles look
> positively pristine, and never had any major lung issues (though I
> could feel "something wrong" after a long ride in really bad air).
OK, k. I'll bite. Where would the air in LA seem pristine by
comparison?
--
David L. Johnson
I believe that the motion picture is destined to revolutionize our
educational system and that in a few years it will supplant largely,
if not entirely, the use of textbooks -- Thomas Edison, 1922
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 21:24:21
From: Mark Hickey
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu > wrote:
>k Hickey wrote:
>
>> I've ridden in places that would make the air in Los Angeles look
>> positively pristine, and never had any major lung issues (though I
>> could feel "something wrong" after a long ride in really bad air).
>
>OK, k. I'll bite. Where would the air in LA seem pristine by
>comparison?
China, for example (and Khatmandu, Nepal - which came as a real
surprise to me - I was expecting the air to be pristine there). On a
bad day in China, you literally couldn't see a hint of a building
across a city street.
k Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 21:14:25
From: Pat
Subject: Re: poisoning yourself by riding
|
>
> OK, k. I'll bite. Where would the air in LA seem pristine by
> comparison?
>
> David L. Johnson
Several years ago, I was in East Berlin and got bronchitis just from
breathing the heavily poor coal infested air. They used to burn (maybe still
do) an inferior grade of coal and the air was sort of bronze colored....
|
|
