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Date: 10 Sep 2006 16:19:10
From: greggery peccary
Subject: question about radial spoke pattern
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my 700c front wheel has a regular radial pattern (the spokes don't cross).
the guy at the LBS said it would be stronger if the spokes were crossed.
it's a 32 spoke wheel, can i do this on the same wheel?
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 20:16:10
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: question about radial spoke pattern
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greggery peccary <.@. > wrote:
> my 700c front wheel has a regular radial pattern (the spokes don't cross).
> the guy at the LBS said it would be stronger if the spokes were crossed.
> it's a 32 spoke wheel, can i do this on the same wheel?
I wouldn't bother personally. Unless there is some problem that is
causing you to need a stronger wheel? I consider 32 front pretty
strong, and I eat weak wheels for breakfast. [1]
David already mentioned all the technical reasons I would have run
through as to why to do this or not. If you really wanted to, one might
see if you could find the same front hub and reuse everything else.
Really though, front wheels are cheap enough, it's probably best just to
spec another and keep this as a spare.
Also, which LBS?
[1] A little butter, a little molasses, fit for a king!
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Scriptures....The sacred books of our holy religion, as
distinguished from the false and profane writings on which
all other faiths are based." -Ambrose Bierce
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 15:35:06
From: greggery peccary
Subject: Re: question about radial spoke pattern
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"Dane Buson" <dane@unseen.edu > wrote in message
news:q01ft3-mlh.ln1@zuvembi.homelinux.org...
> greggery peccary <.@.> wrote:
> > my 700c front wheel has a regular radial pattern (the spokes don't
cross).
> > the guy at the LBS said it would be stronger if the spokes were crossed.
> > it's a 32 spoke wheel, can i do this on the same wheel?
>
> I wouldn't bother personally. Unless there is some problem that is
> causing you to need a stronger wheel? I consider 32 front pretty
> strong, and I eat weak wheels for breakfast. [1]
>
> David already mentioned all the technical reasons I would have run
> through as to why to do this or not. If you really wanted to, one might
> see if you could find the same front hub and reuse everything else.
> Really though, front wheels are cheap enough, it's probably best just to
> spec another and keep this as a spare.
>
> Also, which LBS?
>
> [1] A little butter, a little molasses, fit for a king!
>
> --
thanks for the info. i have been losing spokes in the front. maybe it just
needs a rebuild with double butted ones. free-range cycles in seattle. a
nice little shop that helps me from time to time.
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 06:18:01
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: question about radial spoke pattern
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greggery peccary <.@. > wrote:
> thanks for the info. i have been losing spokes in the front. maybe it
> just needs a rebuild with double butted ones. free-range cycles in
> seattle. a nice little shop that helps me from time to time.
Free range cycles is a pretty good shop from what I hear. They're not
in my neighborhood, so I can't give an opinion as to their wheel
building expertise or lack thereof. I haven't heard anything *bad*,
which is a good thing.
If you're doing a rebuild DB spokes probably aren't a bad idea. And
they won't add much cost to the process. On the other hand, unless
you're doing it yourself or getting the labor for free, it's probably
not cost effective. At $30 for spokes + $45 for a build, that's $75 to
rebuild that wheel at least.
Example: http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=6239
$40 + $10 shipping for a 36 spoke 3 cross wheel. Yes, it's not fancy,
and you'd probably have to bump the tension on it. But it would get you
a spare front wheel and you could then redo the other front wheel on
your own. I'm betting that if you retensioned it (even with the same
spokes and no re-lacing), it would probably be better behaved.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
It typically takes 25-30 gallons of petrol/diesel to fully-consume an
average-sized body under ideal conditions. That I am conversant with
this level of detail should serve as an indication of why the wise man
does not ask me questions about MS-Windows. --Tanuki the Raccoon-dog
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 18:44:20
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: question about radial spoke pattern
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On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 16:19:10 -0700, greggery peccary wrote:
> my 700c front wheel has a regular radial pattern (the spokes don't cross).
> the guy at the LBS said it would be stronger if the spokes were crossed.
> it's a 32 spoke wheel, can i do this on the same wheel?
Well, there is a concern about the grooves that appear on the hub flange,
and the slight deformation of the spoke hole. The idea is, if you
re-build a hub with a different lacing, then you double up on these
grooves and deformations, weakening the wheel. This is, in my
experience, not a concern if you start out with a good hub (Campy or
Shimano).
On the other hand, most hub makers will simply refuse to warrantee a hub
that has been laced radial.
On the third hand, your guy at the LBS is mistaken. Radially-laced front
wheels are not weaker in any real sense than crossed ones. Rear hubs,
yes, cannot be radial (at least not both sides), because of the torsion on
the hub. But a front wheel, unless you have disk brakes, has no torsion
on the hub.
Radial lacing is just a fashion statement, neither helpful nor hurtful to
the strength of the wheel.
--
David L. Johnson
__o
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 10:02:27
From: Giles
Subject: Re: question about radial spoke pattern
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Chris Z The Wheelman wrote:
> These forces do occur on the front hub as well, when braking. And the
> front wheel does bear most of those.
Help me to understand that one... The rear hub has torque applied, so
that certainly makes sense. But braking forces are applied at the rim
(assuming rim brakes). So forces are applied at the brake and at the
contact point, with the hub pushing forward. I don't see where the
torque comes from: If I'm visualizing this correctly, there is just a
change in the radial forces with a horizontal component added to the
normal vertical component. I don't see where torque on the front hub
comes from, or how it could be applied given that the hub isn't
constrained.
Giles
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 10:37:19
From: Chris Z The Wheelman
Subject: Re: question about radial spoke pattern
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To answer Giles question, I sould have added that this would apply only
to bikes with front disc brakes, because the braking foirces which are
at the hub must be transferred through the spokes to the rim and tire.
Obviously wheels with rim brakes would not experiance this.
Sorry about that.
- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner
To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 06:08:07
From: Artoi
Subject: Re: question about radial spoke pattern
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In article <Raidnd7P3IbJPpnYUSdV9g@ptd.net >,
"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu > wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 16:19:10 -0700, greggery peccary wrote:
>
> > my 700c front wheel has a regular radial pattern (the spokes don't cross).
> > the guy at the LBS said it would be stronger if the spokes were crossed.
> > it's a 32 spoke wheel, can i do this on the same wheel?
>
> Well, there is a concern about the grooves that appear on the hub flange,
> and the slight deformation of the spoke hole. The idea is, if you
> re-build a hub with a different lacing, then you double up on these
> grooves and deformations, weakening the wheel. This is, in my
> experience, not a concern if you start out with a good hub (Campy or
> Shimano).
>
> On the other hand, most hub makers will simply refuse to warrantee a hub
> that has been laced radial.
>
> On the third hand, your guy at the LBS is mistaken. Radially-laced front
> wheels are not weaker in any real sense than crossed ones. Rear hubs,
> yes, cannot be radial (at least not both sides), because of the torsion on
> the hub. But a front wheel, unless you have disk brakes, has no torsion
> on the hub.
>
> Radial lacing is just a fashion statement, neither helpful nor hurtful to
> the strength of the wheel.
I read elsewhere radial front wheels give a harsher ride. Is this true?
And is it relevant in practice?
--
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 21:54:54
From: Chris Z The Wheelman
Subject: Re: question about radial spoke pattern
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Group: rec.bicycles.misc
Date: Sun, Sep 10, 2006, 6:44pm (EDT-1)
From: david.johnson@lehigh.edu (David=A0L.=A0Johnson)
>On the third hand, your guy at the LBS is
>mistaken. Radially-laced front wheels
>are not weaker in any real sense than
>crossed ones. Rear hubs, yes, cannot be
>radial (at least not both sides), because
>of the torsion on the hub. But a front
>wheel, unless you have disk brakes, has
>no torsion on the hub.
>--
>David L. Johnson
These forces do occur on the front hub as well, when braking. And the
front wheel does bear most of those.
- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner
To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 23:39:04
From: Artoi
Subject: Re: question about radial spoke pattern
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In article <ee26he$df$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu >,
"greggery peccary" <.@. > wrote:
> my 700c front wheel has a regular radial pattern (the spokes don't cross).
> the guy at the LBS said it would be stronger if the spokes were crossed.
> it's a 32 spoke wheel, can i do this on the same wheel?
Read up this favourite r.b.* reference.
http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
--
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Date: 10 Sep 2006 21:50:56
From: Chris Z The Wheelman
Subject: Re: question about radial spoke pattern
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If the hub will allow the spokes to be at an angle, yes.
- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner
To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net
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