the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

bicycle-forum.net
Promoting biking discussion.

Main

Date: 12 May 2007 14:33:28
From: Will
Subject: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
can imagine. It was tiny. Never-the-less A small cluster of leaves
followed my tire tread up into the fender. The fender collapsed like
an accordion into the fork crown and voila... major header. In less
than half a second, start to finish, I was on the pavement. Head
first, then shoulder, then legs. My hands never left the bars.

Both forks blades are bent. The top and down tubes are shot. Parts of
me are scabby, most of me is sore. But my head... which is what I
landed on... is fine. The_appliance_that_cannot_be_mentioned is
somewhat trashed.

But it has earned it's place in the trophy case.

Date: 17 May 2007 08:03:13
From:
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

There is a wheel jamming effect that most riders have not seen.
Riding broadside over a typical discarded 12oz beverage can will clamp
it onto the tire and jam it into the fork crown. The fatter the tire
the tighter the clamping action. I first experienced this in slow
motion with a 4" motorcycle tire when these cans were made of steel.

Try it, you'll like it, as the add said.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 13 May 2007 22:22:12
From:
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

On May 13, 9:27 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Will Waller writes:
> >> I'm curious to know what sort of fenders did you in.
> > It was a set of Planet Bike's. The newer units appear to have a
> > release system, my fenders were installed 2 years ago and they
> > do/did not. That would have made a difference. The twig, and I
> > call it a twig because to call it a stick would be wrong, went right
> > up the back of the tire pulling the struts along behind it. If they
> > had released I'd be a much happier camper this morning. I think
> > another issue was the lack of distance between the tire and the
> > fender. It was a tight fit. A bit more space there might have
> > allowed the twig to hang up and buzz for a moment... that would
> > have given me time to hit the brakes.
> > I've been biking for a long time. Fender collapse was about the
> > farthest thing from my mind in terms of danger. I should mention
> > the wheel is fine, the spokes are ALL fine. I thought I had wrecked
> > the front brake unit since the pads now sit near the top of the tire
> > but that's because the fork blades lost their rake as they deformed.
> > It might be that the brakes were involved once the pads rested on
> > the tire and not the rim, because I went from cruising to a complete
> > stop instantly. There was no skidding, the bike just somersaulted.
>
> This is a well understood phenomenon and I have witnessed it on a
> benign stretch of road on which small twigs from eucalyptus trees had
> fallen. I generally call these less than 18" long curved twigs,
> "derailleur sticks" because when they get in the rear wheel, they can
> tear off a derailleur effortlessly. That they are slightly curved
> makes them flip up and rotate into the spokes, if you are unlucky.
>
> Don't ride over derailleur sticks! That goes doubly if you have a
> front mudguard with non-breakaway braces that detach from the fork
> when the stick yanks on them.
>
> Just the same, thicker twigs can have the same endo effect if they
> reach the fork crown. I have experienced that myself and seen others
> do so on forest trails. If you haven't seen it occur or experienced
> it, don't assume it will never happen.

True, I've seen this a few times on trail rides,
no fenders within miles.

Either John Schubert or John Allen, I can't
remember which, describes a very similar event to
OP's on his website.

Robert

Date: 13 May 2007 18:43:26
From: Bob
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

On May 12, 9:56 pm, "Dave H." <oldpinb...@despammed.com > wrote:
> "Will" <waller.will...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1179005608.505816.166580@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
> > most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
> > can imagine. It was tiny. Never-the-less A small cluster of leaves
> > followed my tire tread up into the fender. The fender collapsed like
> > an accordion into the fork crown and voila... major header. In less
> > than half a second, start to finish, I was on the pavement. Head
> > first, then shoulder, then legs. My hands never left the bars.
>
> > Both forks blades are bent. The top and down tubes are shot. Parts of
> > me are scabby, most of me is sore. But my head... which is what I
> > landed on... is fine. The_appliance_that_cannot_be_mentioned is
> > somewhat trashed.
>
> > But it has earned it's place in the trophy case.
>
> I'm curious to know what sort of fenders did you in. Bought some Zephal
> plastic fenders with stainless steel stays for the road hybrid. The set has
> a bunch of friction fit parts which are supposed to give way when they run
> into a large stick.
>
> Dave H.
> ======

They may be okay with large sticks but how will they handle tiny
inconsequential twigs and leaves? ;-)

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Date: 14 May 2007 11:48:35
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

On 13 May 2007 18:43:26 -0700, Bob wrote:

> They may be okay with large sticks but how will they handle tiny
> inconsequential twigs

This is a question that insecure men have been asking themselves
for thousands of years :-)

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

Date: 13 May 2007 21:13:14
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

Michael Warner wrote:
> On 13 May 2007 18:43:26 -0700, Bob wrote:
>
>> They may be okay with large sticks but how will they handle tiny
>> inconsequential twigs
>
> This is a question that insecure men have been asking themselves
> for thousands of years :-)

Not to mention disappointed women.

Date: 13 May 2007 11:07:49
From: Will
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

On May 13, 12:38 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On May 12, 4:33 pm, Will <waller.will...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
> > most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
> > can imagine. It was tiny. Never-the-less A small cluster of leaves
> > followed my tire tread up into the fender. The fender collapsed like
> > an accordion into the fork crown and voila... major header. In less
> > than half a second, start to finish, I was on the pavement. Head
> > first, then shoulder, then legs. My hands never left the bars.
>
> You're a lying troll or the lousiest cyclist in the world.

Lousy cyclist?

Given the sore state this morning of most of my parts (especially in
the wallet region)... I am inclined to agree. It's been a long time
since I've gone down.

Date: 13 May 2007 10:38:07
From: landotter
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

Date: 13 May 2007 12:07:41
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
> On May 12, 4:33 pm, Will <waller.will...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
>> most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
>> can imagine. It was tiny. Never-the-less A small cluster of leaves
>> followed my tire tread up into the fender. The fender collapsed like
>> an accordion into the fork crown and voila... major header. In less
>> than half a second, start to finish, I was on the pavement. Head
>> first, then shoulder, then legs. My hands never left the bars.
>
> You're a lying troll or the lousiest cyclist in the world.

I think you're a) mistaken and b) being kind of a jerk about it.

One of my friends did pretty much the same thing back in November.

http://point83.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3115&highlight=fender

>riding with andre on saturday i hit a pop can and somehow it perfectly
>crimped my tire and crammed the fender into the fork, causing me to
>endo. craziest fucking thing i've seen. i landed a little hard on my
>elbow... turns out i broke it (radial head fracture). so i'm slinged up
>and riding the gimpcycle again for a couple weeks, this time with two
>cranks though and one handed. no surgery or anything though, so i'm
>lucky on that count.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"We don't necessarily discriminate. We simply exclude
certain types of people."
-Colonel Gerald Wellman, ROTC Instructor

Date: 13 May 2007 13:55:17
From: fred
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

landotter wrote:
> On May 12, 4:33 pm, Will <waller.will...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
>> most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
>> can imagine. It was tiny. Never-the-less A small cluster of leaves
>> followed my tire tread up into the fender. The fender collapsed like
>> an accordion into the fork crown and voila... major header. In less
>> than half a second, start to finish, I was on the pavement. Head
>> first, then shoulder, then legs. My hands never left the bars.
>
>
> You're a lying troll or the lousiest cyclist in the world.
>
If he's a liar, he's a pretty poor one. Had he said a stick got caught
in the front wheel, causing him to do a header, no one would think twice
about it as many of us have done that. Saying that a twig would cause
the fender to collapse, causing him to do a header, is a new, weird
concept to many of us. If you're going to lie, make the lie as
plausible as possible.

Date: 13 May 2007 20:13:09
From: chuck
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

On 2007-05-13, fred <fred@fred.com > wrote:
> landotter wrote:
>> On May 12, 4:33 pm, Will <waller.will...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
>>> most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
>>> can imagine. It was tiny. Never-the-less A small cluster of leaves
>>> followed my tire tread up into the fender. The fender collapsed like
>>> an accordion into the fork crown and voila... major header. In less
>>> than half a second, start to finish, I was on the pavement. Head
>>> first, then shoulder, then legs. My hands never left the bars.
>>
>>
>> You're a lying troll or the lousiest cyclist in the world.
>>
> If he's a liar, he's a pretty poor one. Had he said a stick got caught
> in the front wheel, causing him to do a header, no one would think twice
> about it as many of us have done that. Saying that a twig would cause
> the fender to collapse, causing him to do a header, is a new, weird
> concept to many of us. If you're going to lie, make the lie as
> plausible as possible.

I had this happen to me last fall. It didn't send me over the bars, but
it did collapse the fender between the tire and fork, and it did cause
me to crash. I also posted about the issue in this group to some who
said they wanted sturdy steel fenders. I mentioned that the sturdy steel
fender would have sent me over the bars instead of colapsing thereby
giving me a fraction of a second to start a semi-controled crash.

Date: 13 May 2007 07:02:51
From: Will
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

On May 12, 9:56 pm, "Dave H." <oldpinb...@despammed.com > wrote:

> I'm curious to know what sort of fenders did you in.

It was a set of Planet Bike's. The newer units appear to have a
release system, my fenders were installed 2 years ago and they do/did
not. That would have made a difference. The twig, and I call it a twig
because to call it a stick would be wrong, went right up the back of
the tire pulling the struts along behind it. If they had released I'd
be a much happier camper this morning. I think another issue was the
lack of distance between the tire and the fender. It was a tight fit.
A bit more space there might have allowed the twig to hang up and buzz
for a moment... that would have given me time to hit the brakes.

I've been biking for a long time. Fender collapse was about the
farthest thing from my mind in terms of danger. I should mention the
wheel is fine, the spokes are ALL fine. I thought I had wrecked the
front brake unit since the pads now sit near the top of the tire but
that's because the fork blades lost their rake as they deformed. It
might be that the brakes were involved once the pads rested on the
tire and not the rim, because I went from cruising to a complete stop
instantly. There was no skidding, the bike just somersaulted.

Date: 14 May 2007 03:27:13
From:
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

Will Waller writes:

>> I'm curious to know what sort of fenders did you in.

> It was a set of Planet Bike's. The newer units appear to have a
> release system, my fenders were installed 2 years ago and they
> do/did not. That would have made a difference. The twig, and I
> call it a twig because to call it a stick would be wrong, went right
> up the back of the tire pulling the struts along behind it. If they
> had released I'd be a much happier camper this morning. I think
> another issue was the lack of distance between the tire and the
> fender. It was a tight fit. A bit more space there might have
> allowed the twig to hang up and buzz for a moment... that would
> have given me time to hit the brakes.

> I've been biking for a long time. Fender collapse was about the
> farthest thing from my mind in terms of danger. I should mention
> the wheel is fine, the spokes are ALL fine. I thought I had wrecked
> the front brake unit since the pads now sit near the top of the tire
> but that's because the fork blades lost their rake as they deformed.
> It might be that the brakes were involved once the pads rested on
> the tire and not the rim, because I went from cruising to a complete
> stop instantly. There was no skidding, the bike just somersaulted.

This is a well understood phenomenon and I have witnessed it on a
benign stretch of road on which small twigs from eucalyptus trees had
fallen. I generally call these less than 18" long curved twigs,
"derailleur sticks" because when they get in the rear wheel, they can
tear off a derailleur effortlessly. That they are slightly curved
makes them flip up and rotate into the spokes, if you are unlucky.

Don't ride over derailleur sticks! That goes doubly if you have a
front mudguard with non-breakaway braces that detach from the fork
when the stick yanks on them.

Just the same, thicker twigs can have the same endo effect if they
reach the fork crown. I have experienced that myself and seen others
do so on forest trails. If you haven't seen it occur or experienced
it, don't assume it will never happen.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 12 May 2007 20:38:33
From: what does THIS button do?
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

On May 12, 4:33 pm, Will <waller.will...@gmail.com > wrote:
> So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
> most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
> can imagine. It was tiny. Never-the-less A small cluster of leaves
> followed my tire tread up into the fender. The fender collapsed like
> an accordion into the fork crown and voila... major header. In less
> than half a second, start to finish, I was on the pavement. Head
> first, then shoulder, then legs. My hands never left the bars.
>
> Both forks blades are bent. The top and down tubes are shot. Parts of
> me are scabby, most of me is sore. But my head... which is what I
> landed on... is fine. The_appliance_that_cannot_be_mentioned is
> somewhat trashed.
>
> But it has earned it's place in the trophy case.

What's this got to do with k*ckst*mds?

.max

Date: 12 May 2007 22:56:15
From: Dave H.
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

"Will" <waller.william@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1179005608.505816.166580@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
> most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
> can imagine. It was tiny. Never-the-less A small cluster of leaves
> followed my tire tread up into the fender. The fender collapsed like
> an accordion into the fork crown and voila... major header. In less
> than half a second, start to finish, I was on the pavement. Head
> first, then shoulder, then legs. My hands never left the bars.
>
> Both forks blades are bent. The top and down tubes are shot. Parts of
> me are scabby, most of me is sore. But my head... which is what I
> landed on... is fine. The_appliance_that_cannot_be_mentioned is
> somewhat trashed.
>
> But it has earned it's place in the trophy case.
>

I'm curious to know what sort of fenders did you in. Bought some Zephal
plastic fenders with stainless steel stays for the road hybrid. The set has
a bunch of friction fit parts which are supposed to give way when they run
into a large stick.

Dave H.
======

Date: 12 May 2007 22:06:28
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

Will wrote:
:: So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
:: most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
:: can imagine. It was tiny. Never-the-less A small cluster of leaves
:: followed my tire tread up into the fender. The fender collapsed like
:: an accordion into the fork crown and voila... major header. In less
:: than half a second, start to finish, I was on the pavement. Head
:: first, then shoulder, then legs. My hands never left the bars.

Sounds like an excellent reason to leave the fenders at home and don't ride
in the rain!

::
:: Both forks blades are bent. The top and down tubes are shot. Parts of
:: me are scabby, most of me is sore. But my head... which is what I
:: landed on... is fine. The_appliance_that_cannot_be_mentioned is
:: somewhat trashed.
::
:: But it has earned it's place in the trophy case.

Date: 12 May 2007 16:01:29
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

Date: 12 May 2007 17:49:51
From: DougC
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

Will wrote:
> So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
> most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
> can imagine....
>

You know, if you'd get a longer-wheelbase recumbent your bicycle
wouldn't be flipping you head-first like that. You could forgo the
helmet and still avoid most head injuries. ; >)
~

Date: 12 May 2007 19:32:00
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

DougC wrote:
> Will wrote:
>> So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
>> most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
>> can imagine....
>>
>
> You know, if you'd get a longer-wheelbase recumbent your bicycle
> wouldn't be flipping you head-first like that. You could forgo the
> helmet and still avoid most head injuries. ;>)

I saw a guy in a hand-pedaled recumby yesterday wearing...a full-face
helmet! Perhaps he was "challenged" in some manner (over and above being
seen in a hand-operated recumby, that is).

<eg >

Date: 12 May 2007 15:22:20
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: the accessory that cannot be mentioned...

Will wrote:
> So... this morning I was out for a cruiser and somehow drafted the
> most inconsequential twig looking piece-of-a-tree's-branch that you
> can imagine. It was tiny. Never-the-less A small cluster of leaves
> followed my tire tread up into the fender. The fender collapsed like
> an accordion into the fork crown and voila... major header. In less
> than half a second, start to finish, I was on the pavement. Head
> first, then shoulder, then legs. My hands never left the bars.
>
> Both forks blades are bent. The top and down tubes are shot. Parts of
> me are scabby, most of me is sore. But my head... which is what I
> landed on... is fine. The_appliance_that_cannot_be_mentioned is
> somewhat trashed.

Oh, you mean your BICYCLE HELMET! Glad it did its job and you're OK. (The
bike...not so much.)

> But it has earned it's place in the trophy case.

Indeed. RIP. (Or pieces.)