Bianchi- Who killed it?

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Date: 03 Jun 2007 16:52:27
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Bianchi- Who killed it?

While riding today, I saw 3 Bianchi's, and it kind of reminded me of
years ago, there were tons of Bianchi's, but today you even rarely see one.
As we know, Lance made Trek. Trek is a powerhouse, because of all the
business they got because of Lance. So the reverse must be true, collapsing
sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made a
mess of it too.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 14:07:13
From: Marty
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Jun 4, 8:23 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> > [about RAAM]
>
> > >It is the only drug-free cycling race left, in the world,
>
> > How do you know this?
> > --
>
snip...

> If there was a drug that could keep you mentally positive,
> ward off depression, all the negative thoughts that haunt you in an event
> like this, could give you an advantage, but I don't know of any.

Beer.
--
Marty

Date: 07 Jun 2007 03:11:44
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

"Marty" <m_piet@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1181164033.789851.217450@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 4, 8:23 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If there was a drug that could keep you mentally positive,
>> ward off depression, all the negative thoughts that haunt you in an event
>> like this, could give you an advantage, but I don't know of any.
>
> Beer.

Sierra Nevada beer.

Date: 06 Jun 2007 23:32:43
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

Marty schreef:
> On Jun 4, 8:23 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> If there was a drug that could keep you mentally positive,
>> ward off depression, all the negative thoughts that haunt you
>
> Beer.

Yes. But (at present) not more than 2 litres. Or 3 Duvels.

--
E. Dronkert

Date: 07 Jun 2007 03:12:35
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

"Ewoud Dronkert" <firstname@lastname.net.invalid > wrote in message
news:466727fd$0$325$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> Marty schreef:
>> On Jun 4, 8:23 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> If there was a drug that could keep you mentally positive,
>>> ward off depression, all the negative thoughts that haunt you
>>
>> Beer.
>
> Yes. But (at present) not more than 2 litres. Or 3 Duvels.

Isn't that the same as one Belgian Glass?

Date: 08 Jun 2007 21:18:13
From: Andrew Price
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 03:12:35 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com >
wrote:

>> Yes. But (at present) not more than 2 litres. Or 3 Duvels.
>
>Isn't that the same as one Belgian Glass?

I'm not sure, but that Duvel is wicked stuff (I think it means
"devil", which if correct is entirely appropriate ...)

Date: 08 Jun 2007 16:29:20
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

"Andrew Price" <ajprice@free.fr > wrote in message
news:moaj63hkktpnudqk67gtfq6octpnrqannn@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 03:12:35 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com>
> wrote:
>
>>> Yes. But (at present) not more than 2 litres. Or 3 Duvels.
>>
>>Isn't that the same as one Belgian Glass?
>
> I'm not sure, but that Duvel is wicked stuff (I think it means
> "devil", which if correct is entirely appropriate ...)

At 8.5% to 9%, there are quite a few triples that are well over the Duvel
level, with the strongest I've seen a bit below 20%. Duvel makes several
themselves that are over 10% and IMO taste better, although THE Michael
Jackson (not the singer) disagrees. He's a Duvel fan...

For the record, Piraat is better... Fact. Take it to the bank. Can't be
argued. End of discussion.

--
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 09 Jun 2007 11:17:41
From: A R:nen
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

"Curtis L. Russell" <curtis@the-md-russells.org > writes:

> At 8.5% to 9%, there are quite a few triples that are well over the
> Duvel level, with the strongest I've seen a bit below 20%.

Doesn't a triple make one a Fred? (Not that I mind, and I do have some
Chimay Bleu in the fridge as well...)

Date: 09 Jun 2007 08:30:52
From: Kyle Legate
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

Curtis L. Russell wrote:
>
> At 8.5% to 9%, there are quite a few triples that are well over the
> Duvel level, with the strongest I've seen a bit below 20%. Duvel makes
> several themselves that are over 10% and IMO taste better, although THE
> Michael Jackson (not the singer) disagrees. He's a Duvel fan...
>
I thought Samichlaus held the record for highest alcohol content at 14%.

http://www.schloss-eggenberg.at/site/en_srt_samichlaus.asp?id=87

Date: 11 Jun 2007 10:22:10
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

"Kyle Legate" <legatek@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:5cuvotF2vahqhU1@mid.individual.net...
> Curtis L. Russell wrote:
>>
>> At 8.5% to 9%, there are quite a few triples that are well over the Duvel
>> level, with the strongest I've seen a bit below 20%. Duvel makes several
>> themselves that are over 10% and IMO taste better, although THE Michael
>> Jackson (not the singer) disagrees. He's a Duvel fan...
>>
> I thought Samichlaus held the record for highest alcohol content at 14%.
>

That is per the web site the strongest lager beer and wouldn't be in the
competition with the various strong ales that are pumped to get high proof.

There are at least two microbreweries that have U.S. strong ales that list
at near 20%. While I can't remember if the bar in Alexandria was using
volume or proof-percentage (the first would make the proof-percentage more
like 16% I guess - it would have been over 14%), they had one available and
one other on their list. Can't pull the name from memory, though. And didn't
buy it - it looked more like a porter or barleywine and I went with a much
paler triple.

Sam Adams Triple Bock isn't far from 15% and I've seen the Brit version of
doubles and triples, barleywine, at the 15% mark, more or less.

All are ales of one kind or another. And for the record, the highest rated
ales in the double-triple-quad and barleywine group tend to run from 7.5% to
12% proof/8.5% - 15% by volume roughly and not near that 20%. If you like
porters and want something a bit deeper in taste, try the barleywines - I
could never really get into them. Too much like porter and stout.

--
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 09 Jun 2007 17:20:41
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

In article <5cuvotF2vahqhU1@mid.individual.net >,
Kyle Legate <legatek@hotmail.com > wrote:

> Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> >
> > At 8.5% to 9%, there are quite a few triples that are well over the
> > Duvel level, with the strongest I've seen a bit below 20%. Duvel makes
> > several themselves that are over 10% and IMO taste better, although THE
> > Michael Jackson (not the singer) disagrees. He's a Duvel fan...
> >
> I thought Samichlaus held the record for highest alcohol content at 14%.

I simply read the line without looking at the quoted material,
and marveled at this Samichlaus character who achieved a 14% BAC.

--
Michael Press

Date: 04 Jun 2007 18:38:19
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Jun 4, 9:35 am, RonSonic <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com > wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:23:29 GMT, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >If you ever had done an endurance event, you wouldn't ask this question.
> >Would you take, performance enhancing drugs to climb Mt. Everest? This is
> >an endurance event that exceeds anything drugs could do for you. They could
> >kill you, because it's about making the body work well for long periods of
> >time, which performance drugs don't add, but they could end your race
> >quickly. Only old fashion stuff, like nutrition, hydration, keeping your
> >electrolytes right, work. Your biggest enemy in an event like this, is of
> >course yourself. If there was a drug that could keep you mentally positive,
> >ward off depression, all the negative thoughts that haunt you in an event
> >like this, could give you an advantage, but I don't know of any. No drug
> >testing necessary, because the ones who dope don't finish.
>
> Oh bullshit.
>
> There are lots of drugs that would help prepare for the event and yes a few that
> would benefit mental outlook and alertness during.

Yeah, but that's not the important question. The
important question is, are there any drugs that
would help prepare for watching RAAM, much less
make it interesting to watch?

Ben

P.S. For the sake of argument, pretend it's being
broadcast opposite an episode of the Teletubbies.

Date: 05 Jun 2007 09:33:44
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> Yeah, but that's not the important question. The
> important question is, are there any drugs that
> would help prepare for watching RAAM, much less
> make it interesting to watch?
>
> Ben
>
> P.S. For the sake of argument, pretend it's being
> broadcast opposite an episode of the Teletubbies.

What makes a better sedative: Watching RAAM, watching golf or watching a
National Geographic program on how grass grows ?

Date: 05 Jun 2007 23:49:00
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

In article
<46651204$0$30488$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com >,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com > wrote:

> bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> > Yeah, but that's not the important question. The
> > important question is, are there any drugs that
> > would help prepare for watching RAAM, much less
> > make it interesting to watch?
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > P.S. For the sake of argument, pretend it's being
> > broadcast opposite an episode of the Teletubbies.
>
> What makes a better sedative: Watching RAAM, watching golf or watching a
> National Geographic program on how grass grows ?

The latter two are almost identical. Grass, however, is
a fascinating study. It is a flowering plant, and
recent at 50 million years. Extremely successful, as
it can be heavily grazed yet survive to prevent ground
erosion.

"This is a hybrid. This is a cross, ah, of Bluegrass,
Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern
California Sensemilia. The amazing stuff about this is,
that you can play 36 holes on it in the afternoon, take
it home and just get stoned to the bejeezus-belt that
night on this stuff. "

--
Michael Press

Date: 05 Jun 2007 07:55:45
From: Kyle Legate
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
>>
>
> Yeah, but that's not the important question. The
> important question is, are there any drugs that
> would help prepare for watching RAAM, much less
> make it interesting to watch?
>
> Ben
>
> P.S. For the sake of argument, pretend it's being
> broadcast opposite an episode of the Teletubbies.
>
See my earlier recommendation, and a split screen.

Date: 04 Jun 2007 13:33:54
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

It's only natural that a european brand has stronger presence since
it's closer to their market. Since there is more racing in europe
brands like Orea, Raleigh have a stornger presnce in europe. There is
not much racing in the US so the racers are much more likely to buy a
Trek OCLV which has a very strong tie to Lance.

Quite frankly I am very surpised that companies like Gipemme are still
around. Theiy have no real innovation to speak of.

On Jun 4, 10:02 am, Simon Brooke <s...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> in message <1180959153.917968.13...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Qui si
>
>
>
>
>
> parla Campagnolo ('pe...@vecchios.com') wrote:
> > On Jun 3, 10:52 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> While riding today, I saw 3 Bianchi's, and it kind of reminded me of
> >> years ago, there were tons of Bianchi's, but today you even rarely see
> >> one.
> >> As we know, Lance made Trek. Trek is a powerhouse, because of all the
> >> business they got because of Lance. So the reverse must be true,
> >> collapsing
> >> sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
> >> Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made
> >> a mess of it too.
>
> > Really..when I was at the Milan Bike show, they had a HUGE display all
> > about Pantani..they love the guy, sell all sorts of Pantani stuff.
> > Bianchi-Italian, Pantani-italian..I really doiubt anybody WON'T buy a
> > frame because of some pro, sponsored rider ends up doping. They ride
> > what they are paid and told to ride.
>
> > Maybe because Euro frame makers are percieved as being behind in terms
> > of whizbangery and marketing. US frames are all over the Euro market-
> > Trekspecializedgiantcannondale are all the rage in Europe, not
> > anything European, like DeRosa, Pinarello, Colnago being the only
> > exception, IMO.
>
> H'mmm...
>
> Was at the Scottish Road Race Championships yesterday. One Trek, one Scott,
> two Cannondales, quite a lot of Giants, two Cervelos, a Ridley, a Sunday
> (first I've seen), several Orbeas, one Dolan (not mine - I was
> marshalling), one elderly titanium Raleigh, an Isaac, quite a lot of
> Colnagos, several Pinarellos, one De Rosa, one Specialized, a Principia, a
> Fausto Coppi with ugly pigeon-shit welding, quite a lot of minor makers
> mostly Italian and English. Don't recall seeing any Bianchis and there are
> none in my photos. The best looking bikes were definitely the Colnagos and
> the Orbeas.
>
> European-made frames probably outnumbered Taiwanese-made frames and
> certainly outnumbered American made frames. Shimano groupsets outnumbered
> Campag by about two to one. I didn't see anyone using a SRAM groupset.
> Wheels came from a very wide spread of manufacturers with Mavic probably
> the most popular.
>
> This is what elite level cyclists in Scotland are riding. At club level
> you'd see more Treks, Spesh, and Giant, and below club level you'd see
> mostly the big American and Taiwanese brands with some Claud Butlers
> hanging in there. So, yes, the Taiwanese made/American branded bikes
> are 'all over' Europe, but they're not aspirational brands here.
>
> --
> s...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> ;; MS Windows: A thirty-two bit extension ... to a sixteen bit
> ;; patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a
> ;; four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that
> ;; can't stand one bit of competition -- anonymous- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Date: 04 Jun 2007 08:27:31
From:
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Jun 3, 8:47 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net > wrote:
>
> There are certain rbr threads and posters that have been pounced on and
> toyed with like a cat with a mouse, thus becoming classics. Thanks to
> Justin, with the possible exception of Hell and High Water Bob, almost every
> reference to Bianchi in the past four years has had some sort of allusion to
> that infamous thread.

I had some experience with the previous all-steel racing department
bikes from Bianchi and they had precisely the same problems as the AL
versions later - the Reparto Corsa frames would fail through tubing
breaks after a couple of years of racing. Mind you, they were
extremely nice bikes, light, good handling, attractive and just about
everything you'd want in a racer except longevity.

Date: 04 Jun 2007 08:22:17
From:
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Jun 3, 6:18 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> It made an impression on me, or why would this pop into my head.

Anyone think that requires an answer?

Date: 04 Jun 2007 08:21:18
From:
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Jun 3, 6:11 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I became totally disillusioned with pro-cycling, so much, that
> if I even stumbled on it on the tube I would reflexively either cover both
> eyes, or both ears with my hands.

Yet it doesn't seem to have prevented you from telling us all about
it. From a position of ultimate ignorance yet.

Date: 04 Jun 2007 07:49:56
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

Schwinn and Raleigh are victims of the brand acquisition trend and
this has screwed up a lot of the major brands. Derby International,
Cycle Europe and Pacific cycles believed that there was a lot of money
to be made by selling to big stores like Wal-mart etc... So as a
result a lot of venture captial companies like Thayer Capital funded
companies like Derby Cycles. The problem however is that the bicycles
were being produced by 3 or 4 bike factories like Giant, Pacific. So
therefore the bikes looked very similar. One reason for this that
Schwinn & Raleigh were transformed into simply a re-branded bike and
did no manufacturing. Before this was not a big problem because they
did a fairly good job of brand development & marketing.

Today Derby is a significantly downsized company and has thrown away
Nishiki & Univega. Derby is recovering from bankruptcy and they have
Raleigh and Diamondback and some other minor brands.

Cannondale seems like a strong company, but I am not certain what
their market is. But since they do their own production and parts this
has differentiated them from other companies.

Pacific Cycles is doing much better since they have done a much better
job of developing their brands. But Pacific had t's own debt problems
from all the acquistions.

On Jun 4, 5:20 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> > Quick, tell me something about Trek bikes. You could.
>
> > Tell me something about Cannondale, what is their specialty?
>
> > OK now how about Bianchi? <crickets>
> > Schwinn?
> > Raleigh?
>
> > All these big names have suffered in my opinion because their bikes
> > did not have a particular focus. Bianchi is known for the green paint.
> > What else?
>
> ------------
> I remember they were one of the last to move to the 1 1/8 standard on the
> headset. The last to move to threadless headsets. I love the paint, it's
> really the only brand that you can immmediately identify from a distance
> because of that. The ones I saw close up, all had Shimano, what's with
> that?

Date: 04 Jun 2007 05:12:33
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Jun 3, 10:52 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> While riding today, I saw 3 Bianchi's, and it kind of reminded me of
> years ago, there were tons of Bianchi's, but today you even rarely see one.
> As we know, Lance made Trek. Trek is a powerhouse, because of all the
> business they got because of Lance. So the reverse must be true, collapsing
> sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
> Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made a
> mess of it too.

Really..when I was at the Milan Bike show, they had a HUGE display all
about Pantani..they love the guy, sell all sorts of Pantani stuff.
Bianchi-Italian, Pantani-italian..I really doiubt anybody WON'T buy a
frame because of some pro, sponsored rider ends up doping. They ride
what they are paid and told to ride.

Maybe because Euro frame makers are percieved as being behind in terms
of whizbangery and marketing. US frames are all over the Euro market-
Trekspecializedgiantcannondale are all the rage in Europe, not
anything European, like DeRosa, Pinarello, Colnago being the only
exception, IMO.

Date: 04 Jun 2007 18:02:24
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

in message <1180959153.917968.13170@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com >, Qui si
parla Campagnolo ('peter@vecchios.com') wrote:

> On Jun 3, 10:52 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> While riding today, I saw 3 Bianchi's, and it kind of reminded me of
>> years ago, there were tons of Bianchi's, but today you even rarely see
>> one.
>> As we know, Lance made Trek. Trek is a powerhouse, because of all the
>> business they got because of Lance. So the reverse must be true,
>> collapsing
>> sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
>> Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made
>> a mess of it too.
>
> Really..when I was at the Milan Bike show, they had a HUGE display all
> about Pantani..they love the guy, sell all sorts of Pantani stuff.
> Bianchi-Italian, Pantani-italian..I really doiubt anybody WON'T buy a
> frame because of some pro, sponsored rider ends up doping. They ride
> what they are paid and told to ride.
>
> Maybe because Euro frame makers are percieved as being behind in terms
> of whizbangery and marketing. US frames are all over the Euro market-
> Trekspecializedgiantcannondale are all the rage in Europe, not
> anything European, like DeRosa, Pinarello, Colnago being the only
> exception, IMO.

H'mmm...

Was at the Scottish Road Race Championships yesterday. One Trek, one Scott,
two Cannondales, quite a lot of Giants, two Cervelos, a Ridley, a Sunday
(first I've seen), several Orbeas, one Dolan (not mine - I was
marshalling), one elderly titanium Raleigh, an Isaac, quite a lot of
Colnagos, several Pinarellos, one De Rosa, one Specialized, a Principia, a
Fausto Coppi with ugly pigeon-shit welding, quite a lot of minor makers
mostly Italian and English. Don't recall seeing any Bianchis and there are
none in my photos. The best looking bikes were definitely the Colnagos and
the Orbeas.

European-made frames probably outnumbered Taiwanese-made frames and
certainly outnumbered American made frames. Shimano groupsets outnumbered
Campag by about two to one. I didn't see anyone using a SRAM groupset.
Wheels came from a very wide spread of manufacturers with Mavic probably
the most popular.

This is what elite level cyclists in Scotland are riding. At club level
you'd see more Treks, Spesh, and Giant, and below club level you'd see
mostly the big American and Taiwanese brands with some Claud Butlers
hanging in there. So, yes, the Taiwanese made/American branded bikes
are 'all over' Europe, but they're not aspirational brands here.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; MS Windows: A thirty-two bit extension ... to a sixteen bit
;; patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a
;; four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that
;; can't stand one bit of competition -- anonymous

Date: 04 Jun 2007 23:39:10
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

In article
<06tdj4-ier.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk >,
Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:

> in message <1180959153.917968.13170@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Qui si
> parla Campagnolo ('peter@vecchios.com') wrote:
>
> > On Jun 3, 10:52 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> While riding today, I saw 3 Bianchi's, and it kind of reminded me of
> >> years ago, there were tons of Bianchi's, but today you even rarely see
> >> one.
> >> As we know, Lance made Trek. Trek is a powerhouse, because of all the
> >> business they got because of Lance. So the reverse must be true,
> >> collapsing
> >> sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
> >> Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made
> >> a mess of it too.
> >
> > Really..when I was at the Milan Bike show, they had a HUGE display all
> > about Pantani..they love the guy, sell all sorts of Pantani stuff.
> > Bianchi-Italian, Pantani-italian..I really doiubt anybody WON'T buy a
> > frame because of some pro, sponsored rider ends up doping. They ride
> > what they are paid and told to ride.
> >
> > Maybe because Euro frame makers are percieved as being behind in terms
> > of whizbangery and marketing. US frames are all over the Euro market-
> > Trekspecializedgiantcannondale are all the rage in Europe, not
> > anything European, like DeRosa, Pinarello, Colnago being the only
> > exception, IMO.
>
> H'mmm...
>
> Was at the Scottish Road Race Championships yesterday. One Trek, one Scott,
> two Cannondales, quite a lot of Giants, two Cervelos, a Ridley, a Sunday
> (first I've seen), several Orbeas, one Dolan (not mine - I was
> marshalling), one elderly titanium Raleigh, an Isaac, quite a lot of
> Colnagos, several Pinarellos, one De Rosa, one Specialized, a Principia, a
> Fausto Coppi with ugly pigeon-shit welding, quite a lot of minor makers
> mostly Italian and English. Don't recall seeing any Bianchis and there are
> none in my photos. The best looking bikes were definitely the Colnagos and
> the Orbeas.
>
> European-made frames probably outnumbered Taiwanese-made frames and
> certainly outnumbered American made frames. Shimano groupsets outnumbered
> Campag by about two to one. I didn't see anyone using a SRAM groupset.
> Wheels came from a very wide spread of manufacturers with Mavic probably
> the most popular.
>
> This is what elite level cyclists in Scotland are riding. At club level
> you'd see more Treks, Spesh, and Giant, and below club level you'd see
> mostly the big American and Taiwanese brands with some Claud Butlers
> hanging in there. So, yes, the Taiwanese made/American branded bikes
> are 'all over' Europe, but they're not aspirational brands here.

If you do not _know_ _exactly_ where a bicycle was
made, it was made by Giant. Where do you think they got
their name?

--
Michael Press

Date: 04 Jun 2007 05:07:05
From:
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

Quick, tell me something about Trek bikes. You could.

Tell me something about Cannondale, what is their specialty?

OK now how about Bianchi? <crickets >
Schwinn?
Raleigh?

All these big names have suffered in my opinion because their bikes
did not have a particular focus. Bianchi is known for the green paint.
What else?

Date: 04 Jun 2007 14:09:48
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

in message <1180958825.142505.145790@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com >,
chiefhiawatha@gmail.com (' chiefhiawatha@gmail.com') wrote:

> Quick, tell me something about Trek bikes. You could.
Bland, uninteresting, middle of the road, nothing particularly bad
about them. Big marketing budget.

> Tell me something about Cannondale, what is their specialty?
Innovative materials, innovative technology, best welding in the industry,
occasionally push the strength/weight envelope too far. Big R&D budget.

> OK now how about Bianchi? <crickets>
Horrible paint.

> Schwinn?
Overweight, low quality cruisers.

> Raleigh?
Slapping their badge on the cheapest far eastern imports they can source,
regardless of quality. Still the All Steel Bicycle, but now it's Hi-Ten.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

<p >Schroedinger's cat is <blink><strong>NOT</strong></blink> dead.</p>

Date: 04 Jun 2007 12:20:11
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

> Quick, tell me something about Trek bikes. You could.
>
> Tell me something about Cannondale, what is their specialty?
>
> OK now how about Bianchi? <crickets>
> Schwinn?
> Raleigh?
>
> All these big names have suffered in my opinion because their bikes
> did not have a particular focus. Bianchi is known for the green paint.
> What else?
------------
I remember they were one of the last to move to the 1 1/8 standard on the
headset. The last to move to threadless headsets. I love the paint, it's
really the only brand that you can immmediately identify from a distance
because of that. The ones I saw close up, all had Shimano, what's with
that?

Date: 04 Jun 2007 08:16:49
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Jun 4, 12:52 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> While riding today, I saw 3 Bianchi's, and it kind of reminded me of
> years ago, there were tons of Bianchi's, but today you even rarely see one.
> As we know, Lance made Trek. Trek is a powerhouse, because of all the
> business they got because of Lance. So the reverse must be true, collapsing
> sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
> Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made a
> mess of it too.

I know of five real and one counterfeit Bianchi in this province.

I've seen at least fifteen real Trek the bike shop in the last two
years but with the exception of a specially ordered "Kid's Specific
Design" mountain bike under someone's 8 year old none of them are
showing up at bike club events.

Only three Cannondale in the province and two of those are counterfeit
(though, as the former owner of the legit C'dale, I hate to be the one
to tell to tell the couple with the CAAD4 frames they got in Beijing
that even if their bikes look right and cost right they are about 5
pounds too heavy.)

-M

Date: 03 Jun 2007 23:22:08
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

The term killed is a inaccurate description since Bianchi (http://
www.bianchi.com ) is still around.

Bianchi is one of the last large bike companies. Bianchi today is
owned by Cycle Europe which owns Puch, Gitane and some other brands.
One problem is that Bianchi never had a very strong distribution
system in the US. Recently I have noticed that a few dealers in the
San Diego picked up Bianchi and are carrying their racing bikes.

As for Jan I believe his influence was very minor since the team was
not around long.

On Jun 3, 9:52 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> While riding today, I saw 3 Bianchi's, and it kind of reminded me of
> years ago, there were tons of Bianchi's, but today you even rarely see one.
> As we know, Lance made Trek. Trek is a powerhouse, because of all the
> business they got because of Lance. So the reverse must be true, collapsing
> sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
> Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made a
> mess of it too.

Date: 04 Jun 2007 06:09:37
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Jun 3, 6:18 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetrem...@jt10000.com> wrote :
> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 23:33:50 GMT, "Callistus Valerius"
> > <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >as I remember it, Jan implied that the
> > >Bianchi was one of many handicaps he had to overcome in that tour.
>
> > Where did you hear or read this?
>
> hand on the bible------ if I recollect correctly I think it was one of
> Liggetts ramblings on OLN. It made an impression on me, or why would this
> pop into my head. As you remember, that was all they talked about, bianchi,
> bianchi.., because of the Coast blow-up, and money problems, and then
> Liggett waxed on about how Jan had trouble adjusting to the bike. Was it
> the geometry, weight, durability, flexing, I just don't recollect.

Yup. Must of been one of those LED-induced
hallucinations - or maybe heat stroke.

Ben

Date: 04 Jun 2007 11:01:07
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

Callistus Valerius wrote:
>> hand on the bible------ if I recollect correctly I think it was one of
>> Liggetts ramblings on OLN.

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> Yup. Must of been one of those LED-induced
> hallucinations - or maybe heat stroke.

If you're going to hallucinate about cycling commentators its probably
slightly better to hallucinate about Liggett rather than Duffield.

Date: 03 Jun 2007 19:27:16
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Jun 3, 9:52 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> While riding today, I saw 3 Bianchi's, and it kind of reminded me of
> years ago, there were tons of Bianchi's, but today you even rarely see one.
> As we know, Lance made Trek. Trek is a powerhouse, because of all the
> business they got because of Lance. So the reverse must be true, collapsing
> sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
> Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made a
> mess of it too.

Jan had his best Tour de France of the last seven or so years
in 2003 on a Bianchi in a Bianchi jersey.

The last several undistinguished years of Marco's career
were on a Wilier.

Obviously, had they stuck with Bianchis, LANCE would be
a faded memory - who was that guy who won the Tour back
in the 90s? Used to work at a post office or something?

Ben

Date: 04 Jun 2007 23:29:46
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

In article
<1180898836.800962.39000@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:

> On Jun 3, 9:52 am, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > While riding today, I saw 3 Bianchi's, and it kind of reminded me of
> > years ago, there were tons of Bianchi's, but today you even rarely see one.
> > As we know, Lance made Trek. Trek is a powerhouse, because of all the
> > business they got because of Lance. So the reverse must be true, collapsing
> > sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
> > Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made a
> > mess of it too.
>
>
> Jan had his best Tour de France of the last seven or so years
> in 2003 on a Bianchi in a Bianchi jersey.
>
> The last several undistinguished years of Marco's career
> were on a Wilier.
>
> Obviously, had they stuck with Bianchis, LANCE would be
> a faded memory - who was that guy who won the Tour back
> in the 90s? Used to work at a post office or something?

Albert Einstein.

--
Michael Press

Date: 05 Jun 2007 09:58:27
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
>> Obviously, had they stuck with Bianchis, LANCE would be
>> a faded memory - who was that guy who won the Tour back
>> in the 90s? Used to work at a post office or something?

Michael Press wrote:
> Albert Einstein.

I thought he got disqualified for riding without a helmet.

Date: 03 Jun 2007 23:33:50
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

>
> Jan had his best Tour de France of the last seven or so years
> in 2003 on a Bianchi in a Bianchi jersey.
>
> The last several undistinguished years of Marco's career
> were on a Wilier.
>
> Obviously, had they stuck with Bianchis, LANCE would be
> a faded memory - who was that guy who won the Tour back
> in the 90s? Used to work at a post office or something?
>
> Ben
----------
This is strictly by memory, but as I remember it, Jan implied that the
Bianchi was one of many handicaps he had to overcome in that tour. The last
years of Marco, no one remembers, because he was either coked out, or epo'ed
out, no one remembers what bike he was on.

Date: 03 Jun 2007 22:55:32
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: RAAM was: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

There's a "Team Blazing Saddles" from Great Britain. What gives? That's like
having a "Team Life of Brian" team from the USA.

Date: 04 Jun 2007 06:47:04
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: RAAM was: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net > wrote in
news:W2M8i.2883$3L1.2156@newsfe14.lga:

> There's a "Team Blazing Saddles" from Great Britain. What gives?
> That's like having a "Team Life of Brian" team from the USA.
>

I think they're sponsored by Nelson's.

--
Bill Asher

Date: 03 Jun 2007 20:04:55
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 23:33:50 GMT, "Callistus Valerius"
<jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:

>as I remember it, Jan implied that the
>Bianchi was one of many handicaps he had to overcome in that tour.

Where did you hear or read this?

--
JT
****************************
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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 01:18:22
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote in message
news:rol663lcjnu6k5jlg1kltcg5t0sovvqnf7@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 23:33:50 GMT, "Callistus Valerius"
> <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >as I remember it, Jan implied that the
> >Bianchi was one of many handicaps he had to overcome in that tour.
>
> Where did you hear or read this?
>
-----------
hand on the bible------ if I recollect correctly I think it was one of
Liggetts ramblings on OLN. It made an impression on me, or why would this
pop into my head. As you remember, that was all they talked about, bianchi,
bianchi.., because of the Coast blow-up, and money problems, and then
Liggett waxed on about how Jan had trouble adjusting to the bike. Was it
the geometry, weight, durability, flexing, I just don't recollect.

Date: 04 Jun 2007 06:38:51
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 01:18:22 GMT, "Callistus Valerius"
<jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:

>if I recollect correctly I think it was one of
>Liggetts ramblings on OLN. It made an impression on me, or why would this
>pop into my head. As you remember,

I don't, but then I wasn't watching OLN.

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 03 Jun 2007 17:14:46
From:
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Jun 3, 6:52 pm, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> While riding today, I saw 3 Bianchi's, and it kind of reminded me of
> years ago, there were tons of Bianchi's, but today you even rarely see one.
> As we know, Lance made Trek. Trek is a powerhouse, because of all the
> business they got because of Lance. So the reverse must be true, collapsing
> sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
> Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made a
> mess of it too.

Justin.

Date: 03 Jun 2007 23:34:36
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

So the reverse must be true, collapsing
> > sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
> > Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made
a
> > mess of it too.
>
> Justin.
---------
who in the blazes is that?

Date: 03 Jun 2007 18:51:05
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

"Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:geI8i.17895$j63.17826@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> So the reverse must be true, collapsing
>> > sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
>> > Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made
> a
>> > mess of it too.
>>
>> Justin.
> ---------
> who in the blazes is that?
>

You've been here long enough, it's appaling that you don't know.

Date: 03 Jun 2007 18:57:10
From: ST
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On 6/3/07 4:51 PM, in article LtI8i.4014$NU1.474@newsfe13.lga, "Carl
Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net > wrote:

>
> "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:geI8i.17895$j63.17826@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> So the reverse must be true, collapsing
>>>> sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind are
>>>> Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan made
>> a
>>>> mess of it too.
>>>
>>> Justin.
>> ---------
>> who in the blazes is that?
>>
>
> You've been here long enough, it's appaling that you don't know.
>

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/browse_thread/thread/5506
26ab14abb49f/0175fe7afead0a57?lnk=st&q=justin+bianchi++warranty&rnum=1#0175f
e7afead0a57

Date: 04 Jun 2007 03:18:25
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

> >>> Justin.
> >> ---------
> >> who in the blazes is that?
> >>
> >
> > You've been here long enough, it's appaling that you don't know.
> >
>
>
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/browse_thread/thread/5506
>
26ab14abb49f/0175fe7afead0a57?lnk=st&q=justin+bianchi++warranty&rnum=1#0175f
> e7afead0a57
------------
I remember reading that thread. It was 4 years ago, and I was suppose to
remember a guy named Justin had warranty issues? I re-read it, it was
funny, shocking, and it did make a lifetime impression on me, but I didn't
pay attention to who posted it. That was when the AL was beer can thin,
that there were a lot of discussions about being in the era of throw away
bikes.

Date: 03 Jun 2007 22:47:53
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

"Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:5wL8i.16457$Ut6.9128@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> >>> Justin.
>> >> ---------
>> >> who in the blazes is that?
>> >
>> > You've been here long enough, it's appaling that you don't know.
>>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/browse_thread/thread/5506
>>
> 26ab14abb49f/0175fe7afead0a57?lnk=st&q=justin+bianchi++warranty&rnum=1#0175f
>> e7afead0a57
> ------------
> I remember reading that thread. It was 4 years ago, and I was suppose to
> remember a guy named Justin had warranty issues? I re-read it, it was
> funny, shocking, and it did make a lifetime impression on me, but I didn't
> pay attention to who posted it. That was when the AL was beer can thin,
> that there were a lot of discussions about being in the era of throw away
> bikes.

There are certain rbr threads and posters that have been pounced on and
toyed with like a cat with a mouse, thus becoming classics. Thanks to
Justin, with the possible exception of Hell and High Water Bob, almost every
reference to Bianchi in the past four years has had some sort of allusion to
that infamous thread.

Since RAAM starts in a week, shouldn't you be winding up your propaganda
machine?

Date: 04 Jun 2007 12:10:33
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

> > I remember reading that thread. It was 4 years ago, and I was suppose
to
> > remember a guy named Justin had warranty issues? I re-read it, it was
> > funny, shocking, and it did make a lifetime impression on me, but I
didn't
> > pay attention to who posted it. That was when the AL was beer can thin,
> > that there were a lot of discussions about being in the era of throw
away
> > bikes.
>
> There are certain rbr threads and posters that have been pounced on and
> toyed with like a cat with a mouse, thus becoming classics. Thanks to
> Justin, with the possible exception of Hell and High Water Bob, almost
every
> reference to Bianchi in the past four years has had some sort of allusion
to
> that infamous thread.
>
> Since RAAM starts in a week, shouldn't you be winding up your propaganda
> machine?
-----------
It is the only drug-free cycling race left, in the world, and it starts June
10th. Hands down the world's toughest bike race. This is such a scary
race, it's hard to field a line-up. Unfortunately, only one person signed
up for the solo enduro division (mandated sleep), and the rest migrated back
to the solo-traditional (no sleep requirements). I was hoping eventually,
it would be the opposite, so more traditional type racers would be
attracted, instead of the Mt. Everest types. Here is the course for this
year
http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/files/raam2007/route/images/fullroutemedres
.jpg

Date: 04 Jun 2007 23:23:40
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

In article
<ZiT8i.13386$296.2356@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net >
,
"Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:

> > > I remember reading that thread. It was 4 years ago, and I was suppose
> to
> > > remember a guy named Justin had warranty issues? I re-read it, it was
> > > funny, shocking, and it did make a lifetime impression on me, but I
> didn't
> > > pay attention to who posted it. That was when the AL was beer can thin,
> > > that there were a lot of discussions about being in the era of throw
> away
> > > bikes.
> >
> > There are certain rbr threads and posters that have been pounced on and
> > toyed with like a cat with a mouse, thus becoming classics. Thanks to
> > Justin, with the possible exception of Hell and High Water Bob, almost
> every
> > reference to Bianchi in the past four years has had some sort of allusion
> to
> > that infamous thread.
> >
> > Since RAAM starts in a week, shouldn't you be winding up your propaganda
> > machine?
> -----------
> It is the only drug-free cycling race left, in the world,

Finally, something to believe in.

Oh, feces! I could not keep a straight face.

> and it starts June
> 10th. Hands down the world's toughest bike race. This is such a scary
> race, it's hard to field a line-up. Unfortunately, only one person signed
> up for the solo enduro division (mandated sleep), and the rest migrated back
> to the solo-traditional (no sleep requirements). I was hoping eventually,
> it would be the opposite, so more traditional type racers would be
> attracted, instead of the Mt. Everest types. Here is the course for this
> year
> http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/files/raam2007/route/images/fullroutemedres
> .jpg

--
Michael Press

Date: 04 Jun 2007 15:29:28
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

> It is the only drug-free cycling race left, in the world...

It most-assuredly is not. There may be a drug-free race somewhere, but it's
not RAAM, not unless they've changed the rules lately and no longer allow IV
drips for "rehydration" with additives such as caffeine tossed into the mix.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Date: 04 Jun 2007 08:45:17
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 12:10:33 GMT, "Callistus Valerius"
<jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:

[about RAAM]

>It is the only drug-free cycling race left, in the world,

How do you know this?
--
JT
****************************
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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 14:23:29
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

> [about RAAM]
>
> >It is the only drug-free cycling race left, in the world,
>
> How do you know this?
> --
If you ever had done an endurance event, you wouldn't ask this question.
Would you take, performance enhancing drugs to climb Mt. Everest? This is
an endurance event that exceeds anything drugs could do for you. They could
kill you, because it's about making the body work well for long periods of
time, which performance drugs don't add, but they could end your race
quickly. Only old fashion stuff, like nutrition, hydration, keeping your
electrolytes right, work. Your biggest enemy in an event like this, is of
course yourself. If there was a drug that could keep you mentally positive,
ward off depression, all the negative thoughts that haunt you in an event
like this, could give you an advantage, but I don't know of any. No drug
testing necessary, because the ones who dope don't finish.

Date: 05 Jun 2007 15:04:13
From: Dan Gregory
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

Callistus Valerius wrote:
> If you ever had done an endurance event, you wouldn't ask this question.
> Would you take, performance enhancing drugs to climb Mt. Everest? This is
> an endurance event that exceeds anything drugs could do for you.
Don't most of them carry oxygen?

Date: 04 Jun 2007 23:26:52
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

In article
<BfV8i.18043$j63.17727@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net
>,
"Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:

> > [about RAAM]
> >
> > >It is the only drug-free cycling race left, in the world,
> >
> > How do you know this?
> > --
> If you ever had done an endurance event, you wouldn't ask this question.
> Would you take, performance enhancing drugs to climb Mt. Everest? This is
> an endurance event that exceeds anything drugs could do for you. They could
> kill you, because it's about making the body work well for long periods of
> time, which performance drugs don't add, but they could end your race
> quickly. Only old fashion stuff, like nutrition, hydration, keeping your
> electrolytes right, work. Your biggest enemy in an event like this, is of
> course yourself. If there was a drug that could keep you mentally positive,
> ward off depression, all the negative thoughts

Those negative thoughts? Thats the rider's guardian
angel saying "Get off the bike, you moron."

> that haunt you in an event
> like this, could give you an advantage, but I don't know of any. No drug
> testing necessary, because the ones who dope don't finish.

--
Michael Press

Date: 04 Jun 2007 18:18:34
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:23:29 GMT, "Callistus Valerius"
<jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:

>
>> [about RAAM]
>>
>> >It is the only drug-free cycling race left, in the world,
>>
>> How do you know this?
>> --
>If you ever had done an endurance event, you wouldn't ask this question.
>Would you take, performance enhancing drugs to climb Mt. Everest? This is
>an endurance event that exceeds anything drugs could do for you. They could
>kill you, because it's about making the body work well for long periods of
>time, which performance drugs don't add, but they could end your race
>quickly. Only old fashion stuff, like nutrition, hydration, keeping your
>electrolytes right, work. Your biggest enemy in an event like this, is of
>course yourself. If there was a drug that could keep you mentally positive,
>ward off depression, all the negative thoughts that haunt you in an event
>like this, could give you an advantage, but I don't know of any. No drug
>testing necessary, because the ones who dope don't finish.

In other words, you don't know.
--
JT
****************************
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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 23:33:03
From: Crescentius Vespasianus
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

> In other words, you don't know.
> --

Boyer might have doped.

Date: 04 Jun 2007 23:34:12
From: Kyle Legate
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

Callistus Valerius wrote:
>> [about RAAM]
>>
>>> It is the only drug-free cycling race left, in the world,
>> How do you know this?
>> --
> If you ever had done an endurance event, you wouldn't ask this question.
> Would you take, performance enhancing drugs to climb Mt. Everest? This is
> an endurance event that exceeds anything drugs could do for you. They could
> kill you, because it's about making the body work well for long periods of
> time, which performance drugs don't add, but they could end your race
> quickly. Only old fashion stuff, like nutrition, hydration, keeping your
> electrolytes right, work. Your biggest enemy in an event like this, is of
> course yourself. If there was a drug that could keep you mentally positive,
> ward off depression, all the negative thoughts that haunt you in an event
> like this, could give you an advantage, but I don't know of any. No drug
> testing necessary, because the ones who dope don't finish.
>
>
I bet acid would help across the central states.

Date: 04 Jun 2007 21:43:27
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

Kyle Legate wrote:

<snip >
>
> I bet acid would help across the central states.
>

DOB lasts longer.

http://tinyurl.com/35mo84

--
Bill Asher

Date: 05 Jun 2007 07:53:53
From: Kyle Legate
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

William Asher wrote:
> Kyle Legate wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> I bet acid would help across the central states.
>>
>
> DOB lasts longer.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/35mo84
>
You got any?

Date: 05 Jun 2007 16:37:15
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

Kyle Legate wrote:

> William Asher wrote:
>> Kyle Legate wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> I bet acid would help across the central states.
>>>
>>
>> DOB lasts longer.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/35mo84
>>
> You got any?
>

I don't think so. It's hard to say for sure since I haven't slept in 11
years because the magic moon people with their elfin ears keep me awake and
even if they are off dancing on their cloven hooves to the beat of the
lunarian drums the bed keeps melting, not to mention the pounding of the
fucking drums drums drums drums drums.

--
Bill Asher

Date: 04 Jun 2007 17:33:55
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

in message <BfV8i.18043$j63.17727@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
Callistus Valerius ('jazzyboss@hotmail.com') wrote:

>
>> [about RAAM]
>>
>> >It is the only drug-free cycling race left, in the world,
>>
>> How do you know this?
>
> If you ever had done an endurance event, you wouldn't ask this question.
> Would you take, performance enhancing drugs to climb Mt. Everest? This
> is
> an endurance event that exceeds anything drugs could do for you.

Oh, come off it. This isn't even funny.

Yes, RAAM cyclists don't use drugs, and no bears ever shit in woods.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; ... exposing the violence incoherent in the system...

Date: 04 Jun 2007 12:35:35
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:23:29 GMT, "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>
>> [about RAAM]
>>
>> >It is the only drug-free cycling race left, in the world,
>>
>> How do you know this?
>> --
>If you ever had done an endurance event, you wouldn't ask this question.
>Would you take, performance enhancing drugs to climb Mt. Everest? This is
>an endurance event that exceeds anything drugs could do for you. They could
>kill you, because it's about making the body work well for long periods of
>time, which performance drugs don't add, but they could end your race
>quickly. Only old fashion stuff, like nutrition, hydration, keeping your
>electrolytes right, work. Your biggest enemy in an event like this, is of
>course yourself. If there was a drug that could keep you mentally positive,
>ward off depression, all the negative thoughts that haunt you in an event
>like this, could give you an advantage, but I don't know of any. No drug
>testing necessary, because the ones who dope don't finish.

Oh bullshit.

There are lots of drugs that would help prepare for the event and yes a few that
would benefit mental outlook and alertness during.

Ron

Date: 04 Jun 2007 23:37:01
From: Kyle Legate
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

RonSonic wrote:
>
> There are lots of drugs that would help prepare for the event and yes a few that
> would benefit mental outlook and alertness during.
>

Acid.

Date: 04 Jun 2007 19:20:50
From: Fred Fredburger
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

Kyle Legate wrote:
> RonSonic wrote:
>>
>> There are lots of drugs that would help prepare for the event and yes
>> a few that
>> would benefit mental outlook and alertness during.
>
> Acid.
>
>
No harm, at least.

Date: 04 Jun 2007 16:50:18
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:23:29 GMT, Callistus Valerius wrote:
> If you ever had done an endurance event, you wouldn't ask this question.
> Would you take, performance enhancing drugs to climb Mt. Everest? This is
> an endurance event that exceeds anything drugs could do for you.

EPO, growth hormone, amphetamines. The usual suspects will do just
fine.

--
E. Dronkert

Date: 04 Jun 2007 14:28:46
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

Date: 04 Jun 2007 01:11:07
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: Bianchi- Who killed it?

> > So the reverse must be true, collapsing
> >> > sales of Bianchi's, who should we blame? The two who come to mind
are
> >> > Marco, and Jan. Personally I think Marco killed Bianchi. But Jan
made
> > a
> >> > mess of it too.
> >>
> >> Justin.
> > ---------
> > who in the blazes is that?
> >
>
> You've been here long enough, it's appaling that you don't know.
----------
I haven't been here much since Landis did the t-patch, so if there was a
justin thread it must have been after that. If he is a pro-cyclist, the
same excuse. I became totally disillusioned with pro-cycling, so much, that
if I even stumbled on it on the tube I would reflexively either cover both
eyes, or both ears with my hands. But I do the same with baseball, and
football has become one long beer commercial. The only thing I got out of
OLN's coverage of the tour, was that they introduced me to Captain Morgan
(rum). They ran that commercial so much, one year, I had to try it. That
stuff is so good, I only buy it for when I go kayaking with people,
otherwise I'd be a drunk. Nothing like a Captain Morgan & Coke after trying
to stay out of Davy Jone's Locker all day. So with that background, that's
why I missed out on Justin.