| |
Main
Date: 01 Sep 2007 02:50:29
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
(http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/sep07/sep01news )
Bruyneel is a catch for any pro team. Johan brings a incredible amount
of insight and understanding about his riders. The other big plus is
that his bringing a defending TDF winner.
"Bruyneel would bring Tour champion Alberto Contador, Portugese rider
Sergio Paulinho and Lithuanian Tomas Vaitkus along with him to Astana.
Thepacline.com listed the riders who have confirmed new contracts, and
these three riders do not yet have teams next to their names.
Tony Cruz is heading back to the North American scene with the BMC
team, while Tom Danielson and Trent Lowe have confirmed with
Slipstream, while Matt White is moving to that squad as a director
sportif. Stijn Devolder will stay in his home country of Belgium with
the Quick Step-Innergetic squad, while George Hincapie is confirmed to
be heading to T-Mobile. Egoi Martinez will ride for the Basque
Euskaltel-Euskadi squad."
The big challenge for Johan is cleaning up Astana's image. The only
real blemish on Johan's career is his decision to hire Basso.. But
this decision was more a error in judgement. I wonder if Trek will
sponsor Astana if Bruyneel takes over.
|
|
| |
Date: 03 Sep 2007 06:08:11
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
On Sep 2, 11:06 am, "Tom Grosman" <gros...@aonix.fr > wrote:
> "Lou D'Amelio" <ldame...@patmedia.net> a =E9crit dans le message de news:
> 1188731165.847873.59...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
|
| | |
Date: 03 Sep 2007 16:39:26
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
> EPO wasn't yet approved by the FDA when Lemond had his hunting accident.
> And
> the clinical testing at the time were being done on ESRD patients, not
> trauma victims.
How dare you use facts when discussing Lemond?
People should listen to him..and not other 'retired' pros, one of
which is keeping a particularly low profile these days...
Which would be whom? Lance certainly hasn't been keeping a low profile
lately, what with his bizarre statements to the press. I think we're seeing
our own version of Bizarro World. When LeMond says something nonsensical,
Lance figures it's his turn to do the same. Floyd's been observing and once
in a while comes up with something himself.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | |
Date: 03 Sep 2007 15:27:10
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
> People should listen to him..and not other 'retired' pros, one of
> which is keeping a particularly low profile these days...
A low profile is much more aero.
|
| |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 21:23:37
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
As I stated earlier it's more a error in judgement than anything else.
It was a risk that Discovery could not afford due to doping scandals
at the time. If this was back in the 90's or 80's it probably would be
such a big deal. But with a new doping story flying around all the
time it made it cast a bad light on Discovery. So it's really a PR
error that Discovery could not afford.
On Sep 1, 12:33 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Tom Grosman" <gros...@aonix.fr> wrote in message
>
> news:46d9a3a9$0$15941$426a74cc@news.free.fr...
>
>
>
> > A perfect fit. Johan's image needs as much cleaning up than Astana's.
>
> Yeah, there's nothing like never testing positive and winning everything in
> sight to ruin a good reputation.
|
| |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 15:43:13
From: lewdvig
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
On Sep 2, 12:35 am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Sep 1, 11:39 am, lewdvig <lewd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I hope this smug little cretin gets busted. Astana is a joke, like
> > Borat. It is a charicuture of all the problems in cycling right now.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Borat is a masterpiece.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.
...and a charicature of almost everything wrong with the USA.
|
| | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 20:05:48
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
lewdvig wrote:
>> > It is a charicuture of all the problems in cycling right now.
> ...and a charicature of almost everything wrong with the USA.
Or a stringicature or an inticature, or perhaps even a doubleicature.
|
| |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 14:24:44
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
ahhhhh breathe deep
smell the cabbage
|
| |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 05:23:16
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
On Sep 1, 4:16 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> >> A perfect fit. Johan's image needs as much cleaning up than Astana's.
>
> > Yeah, there's nothing like never testing positive and winning everything
> > in sight to ruin a good reputation.
>
> Tom: I agree with your logic, but... if your past *has* been clouded by
> people accusing you of doping transgressions, however unproven... does it
> make sense to go to a team in which the history is littered with PROVEN
> dopers? It would be easy for a cynical person to make a case that they'd
> want to bring someone in who knew how to cheat and not get caught.
>
> Yes, it is entirely circumstantial, if even that. But at some level that
> doesn't matter. At some level the individual bears responsibility for their
> own reputation, and the choices that they make have an effect on that.
>
> Personally, I would have much rather seen Bruyneel hook up with a team
> that's solidly anti-doping in every way, with a track record of being so,
> not just a public declaration of their future intent.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Hear, hear...I think the best thing Bruyneel could do is lay low for a
couple of years..he sure doesn't need the $.
|
| |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 04:06:05
From: Lou D'Amelio
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
On Sep 2, 12:31 am, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net > wrote:
>
> EPO would not have been effective for Lemond's hunting accident.
>
> I'll explain more if you admit you're talking out your ass.- Hide quoted text -
Not jumping in on the doping/guilt/innocence issue - I could care less
any more about that - it's tiresome and none of us will really never
know what's going on behind the scenes in pro cycling. Just a quick
medical note to address the above:
EPO is commonly used in trauma and surgical critical care for the
management of post-hemorrhagic anemia. This is one of the most common
legitimate medical indications for its use. I have no idea whether
Lemond received it in his care (wasn't in widespread use at the time
for this purpose), but it's now given for this indication commonly and
appropriately in trauma centers around the country.
Lou D'Amelio
|
| | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 19:06:09
From: Tom Grosman
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
"Lou D'Amelio" <ldamelio@patmedia.net > a écrit dans le message de news:
1188731165.847873.59210@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 23:37:49
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
On Sep 1, 3:07 pm, "Bill" <b...@example.invalid > wrote:
>
> I'm mostly a lurker here and I think Tom's politics usually suggest a lack
> of critical thought and successful brainwashing.
> However; I think there is something really bizarre with a sport where
> supposedly knowledgeable fans feel like the only certain way to be a clean
> participant is to be a looser.
Dumbass -
It's like that in any professional sport which includes differences in
power output as a significant contributor to success or failure.
Cycling is only unique in its lack of ability to handle it in a manner
that keeps the damage to the sports' image to a minimum.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 23:35:06
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
On Sep 1, 11:39 am, lewdvig <lewd...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> I hope this smug little cretin gets busted. Astana is a joke, like
> Borat. It is a charicuture of all the problems in cycling right now.
Dumbass -
Borat is a masterpiece.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 20:05:07
From:
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
On Sep 1, 8:51 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> >> I would have much rather seen Bruyneel hook up with a team
> >> that's solidly anti-doping in every way, with a track record of being so.
>
> > But none of Greg Lemond's teams is still in operation!
>
> Greg says *he* didn't dope. Does he make that claim for everyone else on his
> team as well?
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
That is funny. Greg is credited with introducing EPO to the peloton
after he learned about it while being treated for his hunting
accident. Maybe "never doped with anything that was illegal at the
time" is more like it.
The only way cycling will survive is to accept medical protocols that
"keep the riders healthy" under the stress of rigorous performance,
instead of dangerous doping practices, as was suggested in an
editorial in "Nature" magazine last month.
|
| | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 23:31:39
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
<rjk3@my-deja.com > wrote in message
news:1188702307.775055.65650@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 1, 8:51 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>> >> I would have much rather seen Bruyneel hook up with a team
>> >> that's solidly anti-doping in every way, with a track record of being
>> >> so.
>>
>> > But none of Greg Lemond's teams is still in operation!
>>
>> Greg says *he* didn't dope. Does he make that claim for everyone else on
>> his
>> team as well?
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> That is funny. Greg is credited with introducing EPO to the peloton
> after he learned about it while being treated for his hunting
> accident. Maybe "never doped with anything that was illegal at the
> time" is more like it.
>
Cite?
EPO would not have been effective for Lemond's hunting accident.
I'll explain more if you admit you're talking out your ass.
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 19:40:54
From: MMan
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
On Sep 1, 8:51 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> Greg says *he* didn't dope. Does he make that claim for everyone else on his
> team as well?
Actually, I do remember him making that claim for La Vie Claire on a
television interview, during last year's TdF I think.
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 17:25:18
From: MMan
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
On Sep 1, 6:16 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> I would have much rather seen Bruyneel hook up with a team
> that's solidly anti-doping in every way, with a track record of being so.
But none of Greg Lemond's teams is still in operation!
|
| | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 00:51:21
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
>> I would have much rather seen Bruyneel hook up with a team
>> that's solidly anti-doping in every way, with a track record of being so.
>
> But none of Greg Lemond's teams is still in operation!
Greg says *he* didn't dope. Does he make that claim for everyone else on his
team as well?
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 11:39:01
From: lewdvig
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
On Sep 1, 3:50 am, "hizar...@yahoo.com" <hizar...@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
> The big challenge for Johan is cleaning up Astana's image. The only
> real blemish on Johan's career is his decision to hire Basso.. But
> this decision was more a error in judgement. I wonder if Trek will
> sponsor Astana if Bruyneel takes over.
The big challenage will be teaching a bunch of dummies how to dope and
not get caught. Just like what he did at Discovery but with idiots
this time.
I hope this smug little cretin gets busted. Astana is a joke, like
Borat. It is a charicuture of all the problems in cycling right now.
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 19:38:47
From: Tom Grosman
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
<hizark21@yahoo.com > a écrit dans le message de news:
1188640229.213047.255990@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
|
| | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 12:33:45
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
"Tom Grosman" <grosman@aonix.fr > wrote in message
news:46d9a3a9$0$15941$426a74cc@news.free.fr...
>
> A perfect fit. Johan's image needs as much cleaning up than Astana's.
Yeah, there's nothing like never testing positive and winning everything in
sight to ruin a good reputation.
|
| | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 19:15:42
From: Tom Grosman
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > a écrit dans le message de news:
13djfkvsv05nh41@corp.supernews.com...
|
| | | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 15:16:09
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
>> A perfect fit. Johan's image needs as much cleaning up than Astana's.
>
> Yeah, there's nothing like never testing positive and winning everything
> in sight to ruin a good reputation.
Tom: I agree with your logic, but... if your past *has* been clouded by
people accusing you of doping transgressions, however unproven... does it
make sense to go to a team in which the history is littered with PROVEN
dopers? It would be easy for a cynical person to make a case that they'd
want to bring someone in who knew how to cheat and not get caught.
Yes, it is entirely circumstantial, if even that. But at some level that
doesn't matter. At some level the individual bears responsibility for their
own reputation, and the choices that they make have an effect on that.
Personally, I would have much rather seen Bruyneel hook up with a team
that's solidly anti-doping in every way, with a track record of being so,
not just a public declaration of their future intent.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 22:07:28
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote in message
news:13djfkvsv05nh41@corp.supernews.com...
> "Tom Grosman" <grosman@aonix.fr> wrote in message
> news:46d9a3a9$0$15941$426a74cc@news.free.fr...
> >
> > A perfect fit. Johan's image needs as much cleaning up than Astana's.
>
> Yeah, there's nothing like never testing positive and winning everything
in
> sight to ruin a good reputation.
>
I'm mostly a lurker here and I think Tom's politics usually suggest a lack
of critical thought and successful brainwashing.
However; I think there is something really bizarre with a sport where
supposedly knowledgeable fans feel like the only certain way to be a clean
participant is to be a looser.
Bill
|
| | | | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 15:14:47
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
"Bill" <bill@example.invalid > wrote in message
news:AolCi.482013$p47.354624@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
> news:13djfkvsv05nh41@corp.supernews.com...
>> "Tom Grosman" <grosman@aonix.fr> wrote in message
>> news:46d9a3a9$0$15941$426a74cc@news.free.fr...
>> >
>> > A perfect fit. Johan's image needs as much cleaning up than Astana's.
>>
>> Yeah, there's nothing like never testing positive and winning everything
> in
>> sight to ruin a good reputation.
>>
> I'm mostly a lurker here and I think Tom's politics usually suggest a lack
> of critical thought and successful brainwashing.
> However; I think there is something really bizarre with a sport where
> supposedly knowledgeable fans feel like the only certain way to be a clean
> participant is to be a looser.
So let me get this straight - you agree with me but believe it to be due to
successful brainwashing?
And precisely WHERE do you see any "knowledgeable fans" here aside from
Carl?
|
| | | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 15:42:31
From: Steven L. Sheffield
Subject: Re: Bruyneel may go to Astana...
|
On 09/01/2007 01:33 PM, in article 13djfkvsv05nh41@corp.supernews.com, "Tom
Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Tom Grosman" <grosman@aonix.fr> wrote in message
> news:46d9a3a9$0$15941$426a74cc@news.free.fr...
>>
>> A perfect fit. Johan's image needs as much cleaning up than Astana's.
>
> Yeah, there's nothing like never testing positive and winning everything in
> sight to ruin a good reputation.
Yep ... Bruyneel's reputation for having the best doping program (especially
with regards to detectability) in cycling is in great shape ... I don't know
what makes you think that it's been ruined.
--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash
|
|
