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Main
Date: 05 Jul 2007 16:47:27
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
(http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html )
"The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
three guys crash in one day, whew"
This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874 ).
|
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 20:13:17
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2007/07/09/us/20070710_BRIDGE_slides...
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 12:44:12
From: gds
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
On Jul 9, 10:19 am, "giorgitd" <t
>
> How do you think the Boeing folks are addressing this? Their new
> 'dreamliner' is CF!
>
My guess is that they won't try to fly them after a crash.
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 18:47:00
From: SGK
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
On Jul 6, 8:15 am, "hizar...@yahoo.com" <hizar...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jul 6, 12:34 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> wrote:> "hizar...@yahoo.com" <hizar...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > > (http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html)
>
> > > "The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
> > > someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
> > > handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
> > > as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
> > > three guys crash in one day, whew"
>
> > > This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
> > > on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
> > > all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
> > > still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
> > > lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874).
>
> I think many cyclists are unaware of the durability problems with
> composites. It's amazing that the bike companies can sell frame with
> such a short warranty period.
>
>
>
> > For the rider who doesn't need or can't afford a "throw away" frame,
> > Steel is the answer
>
> > --
> > Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
> > -
> > "To see and not speak out would be a great betrayal. It is as if
> > watching my nation busily engaged in heaping its own funeral pyre. I
> > am filled with foreboding, for like the Roman I seem to see the River
> > Tiber foaming with much blood."
> > Enoch Powell- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not good for a bicycle, but Boeing and Airbus are fine with them for
the 787/350/380? I think you under estimate composites.
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Date: 09 Jul 2007 16:20:46
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
On Jul 9, 10:19 am, "giorgitd" <todd.d.gi_nospam_or...@netzero.net >
wrote:
> "Simon Brooke" <s...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
>
> > I think this one is overblown. Yes, carbon fibre can be damaged in a
> > crash,
> > in ways which are not visible without a stress jig. But I crashed a carbon
> > fibre bike at 46mph into solid granite two years ago. We swapped out the
> > forks and handlebars on the precautionary principle, and sent the frame
> > back to the makers to be checked on their stress jig. It was fine, and I'm
> > still riding it.
>
> >http://www.jasmine.org.uk/dogfood/story/article_41.html
>
> > Carbon is /incredibly/ strong and resilient.
>
> Yes, but there is no relationship between observable damage leading to
> either (1) no problems or (2) failure. So, every time there *might* be a
> problem (after a crash, or a fall, or a tipover while waiting for your
> latte) you either (1) replace the frame or (2) worry.
>
> How do you think the Boeing folks are addressing this? Their new
> 'dreamliner' is CF!
I bet that CF damage isn't actually unobservable. People
make it sound invisible like the Fantastic Four chick, but
it's more likely that damaged CF that mysteriously breaks
later while "JRA" was cracked and/or delaminated all along,
it's just not cracking that the average bikie can spot
with the naked eye under cursory inspection.
Most frame failures aren't catastrophic, while most fork
failures are. So why do people put CF forks on non-CF
frames rather than the other way around? Either the
forks are overbuilt, people have no conception of risk
analysis, or some combination thereof.
Airliners, unlike most bicycles, come with thorough
periodic inspection protocols. That's not a guarantee,
but they aren't directly comparable.
Ben
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 22:19:57
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
In article
<1184023246.608401.235500@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >
,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> On Jul 9, 10:19 am, "giorgitd" <todd.d.gi_nospam_or...@netzero.net>
> wrote:
> > "Simon Brooke" <s...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
> >
> > > I think this one is overblown. Yes, carbon fibre can be damaged in a
> > > crash,
> > > in ways which are not visible without a stress jig. But I crashed a carbon
> > > fibre bike at 46mph into solid granite two years ago. We swapped out the
> > > forks and handlebars on the precautionary principle, and sent the frame
> > > back to the makers to be checked on their stress jig. It was fine, and I'm
> > > still riding it.
> >
> > >http://www.jasmine.org.uk/dogfood/story/article_41.html
> >
> > > Carbon is /incredibly/ strong and resilient.
> >
> > Yes, but there is no relationship between observable damage leading to
> > either (1) no problems or (2) failure. So, every time there *might* be a
> > problem (after a crash, or a fall, or a tipover while waiting for your
> > latte) you either (1) replace the frame or (2) worry.
> >
> > How do you think the Boeing folks are addressing this? Their new
> > 'dreamliner' is CF!
>
> I bet that CF damage isn't actually unobservable. People
> make it sound invisible like the Fantastic Four chick, but
> it's more likely that damaged CF that mysteriously breaks
> later while "JRA" was cracked and/or delaminated all along,
> it's just not cracking that the average bikie can spot
> with the naked eye under cursory inspection.
>
> Most frame failures aren't catastrophic, while most fork
> failures are. So why do people put CF forks on non-CF
> frames rather than the other way around? Either the
> forks are overbuilt, people have no conception of risk
> analysis, or some combination thereof.
>
> Airliners, unlike most bicycles, come with thorough
> periodic inspection protocols. That's not a guarantee,
> but they aren't directly comparable.
Carbon forks seem to be save enough, but we only have
anecdote. Nobody, including manufacturers, are publishing
persuasive studies.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 09 Jul 2007 17:51:21
From:
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
On Jul 7, 6:22 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in messagenews:BoEji.4979$Od7.3217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> > <ilan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1183750773.625152.263070@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> I've never used a 12 tooth cog, and the 13 very
> >> rarely, so I blame the frame builder, Marinoni.
>
> > Yeah, you college professor types are all weak kneed and thin. What was it
> > Shakespeare wrote about Brutus?
>
> My mistake - Cassius: "Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks
> too much: such men are dangerous."
I thought Cassius had feet of Clay.
-ilan
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| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 03:08:34
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
<ilanpsi@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1184003481.100286.72230@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 7, 6:22 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
>> messagenews:BoEji.4979$Od7.3217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> > <ilan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:1183750773.625152.263070@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> I've never used a 12 tooth cog, and the 13 very
>> >> rarely, so I blame the frame builder, Marinoni.
>>
>> > Yeah, you college professor types are all weak kneed and thin. What was
>> > it
>> > Shakespeare wrote about Brutus?
>>
>> My mistake - Cassius: "Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks
>> too much: such men are dangerous."
>
> I thought Cassius had feet of Clay.
Is that why the Bear went down? Or was it the Flashing Fists of Fury?
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 12:09:49
From: Dan Connelly
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
ilanpsi@gmail.com wrote:
> I thought Cassius had feet of Clay.
>
Wasn't he involved in the Boxer Rebellion?
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 03:08:53
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m > wrote in message
news:eKvki.4215$bz7.725@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> ilanpsi@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I thought Cassius had feet of Clay.
>
> Wasn't he involved in the Boxer Rebellion?
Barbara sucks.
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 19:39:33
From:
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
On Jul 6, 1:47 am, "hizar...@yahoo.com" <hizar...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> (http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html)
>
> "The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
> someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
> handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
> as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
> three guys crash in one day, whew"
>
> This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
> on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
> all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
> still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
> lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874).
Well, the seat tube on my steel bike (Columbus SL) broke into two
without a single crash (in particular, I was on a training ride when
it broke, and I didn't crash). I otherwise don't put a lot of stress
on my bike, e.g., I've never used a 12 tooth cog, and the 13 very
rarely, so I blame the frame builder, Marinoni.
-ilan
|
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 04:12:17
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
<ilanpsi@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1183750773.625152.263070@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> I've never used a 12 tooth cog, and the 13 very
> rarely, so I blame the frame builder, Marinoni.
Yeah, you college professor types are all weak kneed and thin. What was it
Shakespeare wrote about Brutus?
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 09:50:49
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
in message <BoEji.4979$Od7.3217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net >, Tom
Kunich ('cyclintom@yahoo. com') wrote:
> <ilanpsi@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1183750773.625152.263070@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> I've never used a 12 tooth cog, and the 13 very
>> rarely, so I blame the frame builder, Marinoni.
>
> Yeah, you college professor types are all weak kneed and thin. What was
> it Shakespeare wrote about Brutus?
"Brutus is an honourable man."
Nah, doesn't describe anyone 'round here.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
I'm fed up with Life 1.0. I never liked it much and now it's getting
me down. I think I'll upgrade to MSLife 97 -- you know, the one that
comes in a flash new box and within weeks you're crawling with bugs.
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 04:22:48
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote in message
news:BoEji.4979$Od7.3217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> <ilanpsi@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1183750773.625152.263070@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> I've never used a 12 tooth cog, and the 13 very
>> rarely, so I blame the frame builder, Marinoni.
>
> Yeah, you college professor types are all weak kneed and thin. What was it
> Shakespeare wrote about Brutus?
My mistake - Cassius: "Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks
too much: such men are dangerous."
|
| |
Date: 06 Jul 2007 12:25:21
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
Consider yourself lucky. Try taking multple crashes with your frame
and see what happens.. I am not sure what how lugged carbon frames
compare with monocoque frames. The Trek OCLV's are nice because they
had a program where you could get another frame for $300. I would
consider a OCLV frame, but they are not available in my size without
going 26" wheel.
On Jul 6, 8:36 am, Simon Brooke <s...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> in message <1183679247.392945.15...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> hizar...@yahoo.com ('hizar...@yahoo.com') wrote:
> > (http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html)
>
> > "The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
> > someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
> > handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
> > as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
> > three guys crash in one day, whew"
>
> > This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
> > on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
> > all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
> > still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
> > lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874).
>
> I think this one is overblown. Yes, carbon fibre can be damaged in a crash,
> in ways which are not visible without a stress jig. But I crashed a carbon
> fibre bike at 46mph into solid granite two years ago. We swapped out the
> forks and handlebars on the precautionary principle, and sent the frame
> back to the makers to be checked on their stress jig. It was fine, and I'm
> still riding it.
>
> http://www.jasmine.org.uk/dogfood/story/article_41.html
>
> Carbon is /incredibly/ strong and resilient.
>
> --
> s...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> [ This .sig subject to change without notice ]
|
| |
Date: 06 Jul 2007 16:36:17
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
in message <1183679247.392945.15680@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
hizark21@yahoo.com ('hizark21@yahoo.com') wrote:
> (http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html )
>
> "The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
> someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
> handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
> as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
> three guys crash in one day, whew"
>
> This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
> on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
> all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
> still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
> lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874 ).
I think this one is overblown. Yes, carbon fibre can be damaged in a crash,
in ways which are not visible without a stress jig. But I crashed a carbon
fibre bike at 46mph into solid granite two years ago. We swapped out the
forks and handlebars on the precautionary principle, and sent the frame
back to the makers to be checked on their stress jig. It was fine, and I'm
still riding it.
http://www.jasmine.org.uk/dogfood/story/article_41.html
Carbon is /incredibly/ strong and resilient.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
[ This .sig subject to change without notice ]
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 12:19:26
From: giorgitd
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
"Simon Brooke" <simon@jasmine.org.uk > wrote in message
news:i442m4-768.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
> in message <1183679247.392945.15680@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> hizark21@yahoo.com ('hizark21@yahoo.com') wrote:
>
>> (http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html )
>>
>> "The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
>> someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
>> handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
>> as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
>> three guys crash in one day, whew"
>>
>> This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
>> on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
>> all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
>> still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
>> lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874 ).
>
> I think this one is overblown. Yes, carbon fibre can be damaged in a
> crash,
> in ways which are not visible without a stress jig. But I crashed a carbon
> fibre bike at 46mph into solid granite two years ago. We swapped out the
> forks and handlebars on the precautionary principle, and sent the frame
> back to the makers to be checked on their stress jig. It was fine, and I'm
> still riding it.
>
> http://www.jasmine.org.uk/dogfood/story/article_41.html
>
> Carbon is /incredibly/ strong and resilient.
Yes, but there is no relationship between observable damage leading to
either (1) no problems or (2) failure. So, every time there *might* be a
problem (after a crash, or a fall, or a tipover while waiting for your
latte) you either (1) replace the frame or (2) worry.
How do you think the Boeing folks are addressing this? Their new
'dreamliner' is CF!
>
> --
> simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> [ This .sig subject to change without notice ]
>
>
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 20:32:28
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
in message <f6tqms$3u2$1@news-srv1.vanderbilt.edu >, giorgitd
('todd.d.gi_nospam_orgio@netzero.net') wrote:
>
> "Simon Brooke" <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:i442m4-768.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
>> in message <1183679247.392945.15680@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> hizark21@yahoo.com ('hizark21@yahoo.com') wrote:
>>
>>> (http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html )
>>>
>>> "The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
>>> someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
>>> handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
>>> as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
>>> three guys crash in one day, whew"
>>>
>>> This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
>>> on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
>>> all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
>>> still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
>>> lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874 ).
>>
>> I think this one is overblown. Yes, carbon fibre can be damaged in a
>> crash,
>> in ways which are not visible without a stress jig. But I crashed a
>> carbon fibre bike at 46mph into solid granite two years ago. We swapped
>> out the forks and handlebars on the precautionary principle, and sent
>> the frame back to the makers to be checked on their stress jig. It was
>> fine, and I'm still riding it.
>>
>> http://www.jasmine.org.uk/dogfood/story/article_41.html
>>
>> Carbon is /incredibly/ strong and resilient.
>
> Yes, but there is no relationship between observable damage leading to
> either (1) no problems or (2) failure. So, every time there *might* be a
> problem (after a crash, or a fall, or a tipover while waiting for your
> latte) you either (1) replace the frame or (2) worry.
>
> How do you think the Boeing folks are addressing this? Their new
> 'dreamliner' is CF!
If you buy a new Look frame, it comes with a certificate of it's individual
readings on the stress test rig. If you crash it, send it back to Look,
they put it back on the rig, check the readings, if within a specified
margin of the original it's good, otherwise you scrap it. Other
manufacturers don't give you individual readouts for each frame, but will
still have type parameters for each model, and again if on test the frame
is within parameters it's OK, if not, scrap it.
Personally I love carbon fibre frames. They perform much better and are at
the same time more comfortable than any other frame material.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; IE 3 is dead, but Netscape 4 still shambles about the earth,
;; wreaking a horrific vengeance upon the living
;; anonymous
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 10:31:58
From: Dan Connelly
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
giorgitd wrote:
> Yes, but there is no relationship between observable damage leading to
> either (1) no problems or (2) failure. So, every time there *might* be a
> problem (after a crash, or a fall, or a tipover while waiting for your
> latte) you either (1) replace the frame or (2) worry.
>
Apparently, Lotto and Milram take option (b)
http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/news/articles/12634.0.html
(Lotto mechanic:) "We had a good look over Robbie McEwen's bike after his crash yesterday (Sunday), but all we had to do was change his handlebar tape."
...
On very rare occasions, they have to change a bike too.
"It's not often we change bikes because the frame is broken," added Rombauts, who tends to the bike of top German sprinter Erik Zabel.
Dan
|
| |
Date: 06 Jul 2007 15:15:11
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
On Jul 6, 12:34 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com >
wrote:
> "hizar...@yahoo.com" <hizar...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > (http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html)
>
> > "The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
> > someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
> > handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
> > as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
> > three guys crash in one day, whew"
>
> > This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
> > on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
> > all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
> > still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
> > lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874).
>
I think many cyclists are unaware of the durability problems with
composites. It's amazing that the bike companies can sell frame with
such a short warranty period.
> For the rider who doesn't need or can't afford a "throw away" frame,
> Steel is the answer
>
> --
> Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
> -
> "To see and not speak out would be a great betrayal. It is as if
> watching my nation busily engaged in heaping its own funeral pyre. I
> am filled with foreboding, for like the Roman I seem to see the River
> Tiber foaming with much blood."
> Enoch Powell
|
| |
Date: 06 Jul 2007 09:34:27
From: Davey Crockett
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
"hizark21@yahoo.com" <hizark21@yahoo.com > writes:
> (http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html )
>
> "The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
> someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
> handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
> as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
> three guys crash in one day, whew"
>
> This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
> on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
> all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
> still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
> lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874 ).
>
For the rider who doesn't need or can't afford a "throw away" frame,
Steel is the answer
--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
-
“To see and not speak out would be a great betrayal. It is as if
watching my nation busily engaged in heaping its own funeral pyre. I
am filled with foreboding, for like the Roman I seem to see the River
Tiber foaming with much blood.”
Enoch Powell
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 06:42:22
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
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Oh please a bike shop will see 1 or 2 broken alloy cranks a year. Now
compare this with how many reports you hear of broken seat posts. What
is really disturbing is the sudden failure of carbon fiber handlebars.
I am not going to going down a hill at 60 mph and finding myself
flying into a tree with a handlebar that has busted. The worst part is
that we are talking a savings of 10 or 20 grams. I used 3TTT
Superleggero bars and went down 3 or 4 times. These bars weighed 90
grams and never even bent. After all of this the bars cost $500-$600
dollars or more.
As for frames compare this with Reynolds 953 which has yield strenght
of 350,000 psi.
I worked in bike shop for years and I think the prices have really
gotten out of hand especially when one compares the technical gains.
On Jul 5, 5:59 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1183679247.392945.15...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> "hizar...@yahoo.com" <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > (http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html)
>
> > "The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
> > someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
> > handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
> > as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
> > three guys crash in one day, whew"
>
> > This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
> > on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
> > all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
> > still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
> > lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874).
>
> I think you overestimate how durable previous aluminum or steel
> componentry was.
>
> Of course, the problem with composites is they can do fun things like
> absorb an impact, look superficially okay and retain their shape, and
> then break the next time you use them.
>
> The Al or steel component would probably be visibly bent after the same
> crash.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 04:07:45
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
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<hizark21@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1183704142.823156.88310@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> I worked in bike shop for years and I think the prices have really
> gotten out of hand especially when one compares the technical gains.
I don't think that there are any gains. And I agree with Jobst that people
racing the pro circuits should now be limits to a single bike for the entire
race. If the frame or fork breaks they're simply out of the race. That would
improve the reliability of the equipment in rather short order.
A person I know was one of the mechanics on a pro US team and he said that
they broke carbon frames all the time. He also said that if someone fell on
the frame they'd often trash it because you can't tell internal frame
problems and you don't want your ride having a frame break apart in the
middle of a sprint in front of the TV cameras. Bad publicity.
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 00:59:01
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
In article <1183679247.392945.15680@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
"hizark21@yahoo.com" <hizark21@yahoo.com > wrote:
> (http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html )
>
> "The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
> someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
> handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
> as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
> three guys crash in one day, whew"
>
> This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
> on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
> all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
> still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
> lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874 ).
I think you overestimate how durable previous aluminum or steel
componentry was.
Of course, the problem with composites is they can do fun things like
absorb an impact, look superficially okay and retain their shape, and
then break the next time you use them.
The Al or steel component would probably be visibly bent after the same
crash.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 02:27:11
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber thoughts
|
"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote in message
news:rcousine-FFE614.17590205072007@news.telus.net...
> In article <1183679247.392945.15680@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> "hizark21@yahoo.com" <hizark21@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> (http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/tech/articles/12564.0.html )
>>
>> "The spares get washed and tuned every other day and God forbid if
>> someone crashes, no matter how minor, mechanics change out the
>> handlebar, stem and fork - at the very least. If the frame is so much
>> as suspected to be damaged it's changed out as well. Imagine if two or
>> three guys crash in one day, whew"
>>
>> This is one reason why I am very reluctant to spend huge sums of money
>> on a composite frame that could be history after a single crash. For
>> all the advances in composites de-lamination and stress points are
>> still a unresolved issue. Now 3d weaved composites my resolve the de-
>> lamination issue (http://www.netcomposites.com/news.asp?3874 ).
>
> I think you overestimate how durable previous aluminum or steel
> componentry was.
Indeed, so explain what the difference is between a fork broken into several
pieces and one that is bent back against the frame?
Though two weeks ago I was riding behind a guy going down a hill that struck
a dog and his Parlee broke the head tube off cleanly. The connection was so
miserably poor that I sure wouldn't buy one of those. On the other hand I'm
riding my Time VXR.
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