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Main
Date: 13 Nov 2007 06:03:53
From: Cliff
Subject: Checkmate, Atheists!
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http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 21:03:45
From: vinny
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
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"Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com > wrote in message
news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the bible
exists.
How friggen stupid. Dumbasses like that make more atheists than not.
We need to not seperate science from religion.
Here's an example.
GOD created the universe.
The universe is everything we know, including laws of physics.
So before the "universe" was created was GOD bound by the laws of physics?
Who knows, but if he created them, then they didnt exist at the creation?
I am a Christian, but one heck of a confused one.
The man lived.
the man was killed on a cross.
those are facts. Beyond that who knows.
But its deep, real deep. The bible is called the new testememnet, or the
"new covenent". Its what the whole thing is about from adam to me. Thats why
we are called sons of GOD and Jesus is called the Son of man. To understand
that one must understand the covenent. I bet less than .0001% even know what
the covenent is. Let alone the "new" covenent.
The Earth is a self sufficient machine, a spaceship kinda. Nobody disputes
that. Way to complex to happen by chance.
If you don't believe in GOD, or life force, or "the force" then your blind.
Things are either alive or there not. Once they are not alive they are never
gonna be alive. The life force isnt there.
It's in everything alive, once its there nothing can stop it.
The problem arises when we think we have to know exactly what GOD is.
To my dog I am god.
Seriously, look at it this way.
Pretend we are 2 dimensional. A flat square with no height.
Then GOD stands next to us, but he is 3 dimensional, he has height.
When we look at him what will we see, another 2 dimensional object. We
cannot see height if we are 2 dimensional.
WE CAN NEVER put an image in our heads other than what we are. So we make
him seem like an old man.
Then there's time.
If GOD created the Universe, time would be something created at that time.
So when he created the universe time hadn't existed yet.
Can we contemplate that? NO. We are clocks, we have a voltage to syncronize
us. Ever notice time is whipping by, or going slow, all thats going on is
our voltage is off from everyone else.
One thing I have a problem with, most dinosaur bones are found less than 1
foot under the soil.
Now leave something in your yard for 100 years and the thing is buried. im
supposed to believe in millions of years or hundreds of millions of years
these bones are laying on the surface? How ridiculous.
Carbon dating is not seen as fact. IN fact the guy who invented the
process said it was flawed.
I know, we were told its fact so it is!
Bullshit. For every scientist that says its fact another disputes it.
Then there's the footprints, the ones they say were from the first animal to
walk on land from the sea. On some beach in ireland.
WHAT?
Footprints lasted on the surface for 200 million years?
Im sorry, thats just the dumbest shit i ever heard. Friggen scientists dream
shit up in their head, then go out to prove it.
Thats how its done, ask any scientist.
Is there a GOD? There's definetely a life force?
Is it an old man with a beard, proberbly not.
What is it...never gonna know, we lack the tools to know. A blind man can
never see. Its just the way it is.
Are we special? Now thats the big question. Are we just the most evolved or
are we chosen and created for a specific purpose?
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Date: 17 Nov 2007 14:59:54
From: Pete
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
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On 17 Nov, 15:15, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Frank J Warner" <warn...@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net> wrote in messagenews:161120072057246651%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net...
> > Most atheists don't say that at all. They say, if there is a God, it's
> > up to you to provide evidence of such. Until then, it's within my
> > rights to lack belief in one. It's the default position.
>
> The more a real scientist learns about the world around him the more
> convinced he becomes that there must be a God. So I guess that neatly
> catagorizes your beliefs.
Some scientists go that way, some (Dawkins is probably the most well
known example) go the other. Whatever you think of his books, Dawkins
has done some good work.
> You are entitled to believe anything you like. Though I am reminded of
> "higher science" which talks about the string theories and the origins of
> the universe in terms which could NEVER be verified in any manner. Why, you
> just have to have faith.
String theory right now is something of an embarrasment to physicists:
the big aim is to either show that it's so general that it really
can't make predictions (i.e. isn't more than a potentially useful
framework into which a theory might be built) or to find a testable
prediction which it makes (i.e. it is a valid theory itself) and test
it.
But right now, yes, believing in string theory really is just a matter
of faith: and far too many string theorists do behave like religious
fundamentalists (Lubos Motl) when their belief is challenged.
> By all means Frank tell me that you have a degree in mathematics and you
> actually understand the math behind the theory of the universe and aren't
> taking it purely on faith.
I _do_ have a degree in mathematics, and so I can tell you that isn't
enough to understand most of the mathematics in question. Most
theoretical physicists, even, only understand bits of the mathematics
- string theorists should know that maths, but theoretical physicists
who don't like string theory (and there are a fair few) may not have
bothered to learn all of it; you only have so much time, and if
there's a different bit of maths you think might work better, you'll
be familiar with that.
For what it's worth, my take on this is:
I do not personally have a formal religious belief (i.e. I don't see
any reason to believe in Jesus and Heaven or Allah or whatever). But
I'm not going to object to anyone with such a belief as long as they
aren't preaching anti-scientific crap (Creationism, mainly) which I do
object to.
I think atheism is thoroughly stupid. A theist believes that there is
a God, et cetera. He can't prove any of what he believes in, but there
is some potential that he might be proved right (if the trumpets sound
and the dead are resurrected incorruptible, then there really isn't
going to be so much argument...). An atheist believes there is no God
- and he is going to prove this how? Because nothing happens? But
typically he will argue that Science Proves There Is No God - well,
science says no such thing.
I think agnosticism (i.e. I don't believe but I am not going to waste
time arguing) is a reasonable position: so again I won't argue with an
agnostic (but then they won't argue with me in the first place, so...)
For me, I don't believe the Universe just appeared from nothing with
no First Cause: but I'd much rather believe in a God-the-Artist who
gives a few rules and sets into motion this vast and beautiful machine
producing life and all that goes with it than a God-the-Autocrat who
goes interfering with his creation every time something happens he
doesn't like.
Pete
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Date: 16 Nov 2007 11:38:42
From: Frank Warner
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
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In article <7Is_i.125$7v1.137351@news.sisna.com >, vinny
<friggenbozo@gawab.com > wrote:
> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
> > http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>
> That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the bible
> exists.
> How friggen stupid. Dumbasses like that make more atheists than not.
>
> We need to not seperate science from religion.
Yes, we do. 300 years of spectacularly successful science has brought
incalculably more benefits to humans than 2000 years of one particular
religion I'm thinking of.
> Here's an example.
>
> GOD created the universe.
Evidence?
> The universe is everything we know, including laws of physics.
> So before the "universe" was created was GOD bound by the laws of physics?
> Who knows, but if he created them, then they didnt exist at the creation?
Who or what created God? If God always existed, why is God a special
case and the Universe isn't? Special Pleading is a fundamental logical
fallacy.
> I am a Christian, but one heck of a confused one.
> The man lived.
> the man was killed on a cross.
> those are facts. Beyond that who knows.
Everything you were taught about Jesus is wrong. Not just some things.
Not just most things. Everything. If anyone by that name existed (and
there is no convincing contemporary evidence he did) it is more likely
he was the First-Century equivalent of today's Middle Eastern suicide
bomber, trying to expel Roman occupiers from his land.
Jesus wasn't even a Christian. Christianity was started by his
followers Paul and, later, Peter, for reasons of their own.
> But its deep, real deep. The bible is called the new testememnet, or the
> "new covenent". Its what the whole thing is about from adam to me. Thats why
> we are called sons of GOD and Jesus is called the Son of man. To understand
> that one must understand the covenent. I bet less than .0001% even know what
> the covenent is. Let alone the "new" covenent.
>
> The Earth is a self sufficient machine, a spaceship kinda. Nobody disputes
> that. Way to complex to happen by chance.
Chance had nothing to do with it (and by that you aren't to read that
supernatural forces did). Very, VERY few things in science or physics
happen by chance. Chemistry and its underlying physics have extremely
predictable processes and results. The Earth and everything on it is
here because of these natural, predictable processes, not because it
was magicked into existence by some Late Stone Age Middle Eastern myth.
> If you don't believe in GOD, or life force, or "the force" then your blind.
> Things are either alive or there not. Once they are not alive they are never
> gonna be alive. The life force isnt there.
> It's in everything alive, once its there nothing can stop it.
(Sigh) Life is nothing but chemistry. See above. There's no such thing
as a "life force." There's no such thing as a "soul." No verifiable
evidence for either of these things has ever been presented.
> The problem arises when we think we have to know exactly what GOD is.
> To my dog I am god.
>
> Seriously, look at it this way.
>
> Pretend we are 2 dimensional. A flat square with no height.
> Then GOD stands next to us, but he is 3 dimensional, he has height.
> When we look at him what will we see, another 2 dimensional object. We
> cannot see height if we are 2 dimensional.
> WE CAN NEVER put an image in our heads other than what we are. So we make
> him seem like an old man.
That's a fairly sophisticated argument. "God is so outside our realm of
comprehension that He/She/It demands our obeisance by its very
incomprehensibility."
My answer is, I live in the real world. I have real needs, real hopes,
real desires. I have to breathe, eat, shit, fuck, kill and die. It's
not too much to ask for any critter I worship to live in the real
world, too. If I'm an amoeba floating in a pond in China, chances are I
shouldn't be too concerned with an eagle flying over the mountains in
Idaho.
> Then there's time.
> If GOD created the Universe, time would be something created at that time.
> So when he created the universe time hadn't existed yet.
That's what the Big Bang theory states, too. There was no "time" before
the initial event. It's like saying "what's north of the north pole?"
> Can we contemplate that? NO. We are clocks, we have a voltage to syncronize
> us. Ever notice time is whipping by, or going slow, all thats going on is
> our voltage is off from everyone else.
I'm not sure I follow your example here.
> One thing I have a problem with, most dinosaur bones are found less than 1
> foot under the soil.
> Now leave something in your yard for 100 years and the thing is buried. im
> supposed to believe in millions of years or hundreds of millions of years
> these bones are laying on the surface? How ridiculous.
Uh. No. Most dinosaur bones are found in sediments that were buried and
then later exposed through erosion or other processes. The sediments
could have been dozens or hundreds of meters thick at one time.
> Carbon dating is not seen as fact. IN fact the guy who invented the
> process said it was flawed.
Cite? There is a margin of error in C13 dating, as in all nuclear
dating processes, but they are accurate enough to estimate an object's
age pretty closely. C13 dating has been calibrated with tree ring
dating going back tens of thousands of years.
> I know, we were told its fact so it is!
> Bullshit. For every scientist that says its fact another disputes it.
That's what science is all about! :)
> Then there's the footprints, the ones they say were from the first animal to
> walk on land from the sea. On some beach in ireland.
> WHAT?
> Footprints lasted on the surface for 200 million years?
> Im sorry, thats just the dumbest shit i ever heard. Friggen scientists dream
> shit up in their head, then go out to prove it.
> Thats how its done, ask any scientist.
Absolutely mind-boggling wrong. Science is the process of presenting a
hypothesis about something observed or suspected, backing it up with a
theory that explains the hypothesis, then designing experiments (or
doing field work) to DISPROVE the hypothesis, because nothing in
science is ever proved, it is only supported (to sometimes incredible
degrees) by further challenges and real-world application.
I don't understand. You are probably still alive only because of
science. Why are you knocking it so much?
-Frank
--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/
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Date: 16 Nov 2007 13:13:00
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
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"Frank Warner" <warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net > wrote in message
news:161120071138427601%warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net...
> In article <7Is_i.125$7v1.137351@news.sisna.com>, vinny
> <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote:
>
>> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>> > http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>>
>> That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the
>> bible
>> exists.
>> How friggen stupid. Dumbasses like that make more atheists than not.
>>
>> We need to not seperate science from religion.
>
> Yes, we do. 300 years of spectacularly successful science has brought
> incalculably more benefits to humans than 2000 years of one particular
> religion I'm thinking of.
Is that so? Perhaps you credit science for more than they have accounted
themselves.
>> Here's an example.
>>
>> GOD created the universe.
>
> Evidence?
By all means tell us when and where the universe came from and where it's
ends are.
> Who or what created God?
That alone proves that you couldn't grasp it if you were told.
> Everything you were taught about Jesus is wrong.
And the proof comes from you.
> My answer is, I live in the real world. I have real needs, real hopes,
> real desires. I have to breathe, eat, shit, fuck, kill and die. It's
> not too much to ask for any critter I worship to live in the real
> world, too. If I'm an amoeba floating in a pond in China, chances are I
> shouldn't be too concerned with an eagle flying over the mountains in
> Idaho.
Hey, whatever floats your boat is fine. The fact that you find religious
people so offensive does lead me to believe that you have a lot more
questions than you'll admit.
> That's what the Big Bang theory states, too. There was no "time" before
> the initial event. It's like saying "what's north of the north pole?"
I suggest you don't get on a game show expecting to last past the first
round. Your understanding of time and the north pole are somewhat at odds
with the universe.
> Uh. No. Most dinosaur bones are found in sediments that were buried and
> then later exposed through erosion or other processes. The sediments
> could have been dozens or hundreds of meters thick at one time.
By all means tell me - how long is a Day to God?
> Absolutely mind-boggling wrong. Science is the process of presenting a
> hypothesis about something observed or suspected, backing it up with a
> theory that explains the hypothesis, then designing experiments (or
> doing field work) to DISPROVE the hypothesis, because nothing in
> science is ever proved, it is only supported (to sometimes incredible
> degrees) by further challenges and real-world application.
Maybe you can explain to me how religion and science are at odds?
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Date: 16 Nov 2007 16:33:19
From: sittingduck
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
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Tom Kunich wrote:
> Maybe you can explain to me how religion and science are at odds?
Science is based on facts and evidence.
Religion is based on faith, the definition of which is just the opposite.
Faith: "firm belief in something for which there is no proof"
I especially despise how kooky religious nuts get a free pass on anything
that threatens their fairy tale. They'll just say: "God has put that there as
a test of my faith".
Pathetic!
--
http://improve-usenet.org
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Date: 16 Nov 2007 18:07:31
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"sittingduck" <duck@nomail.afraid.org > wrote in message
news:Xns99EAA86952C4Fduckrulestheuniverse@invalid.quakefour.net...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>> Maybe you can explain to me how religion and science are at odds?
>
> Science is based on facts and evidence.
Then by all means tell me the FACTS and the EVIDENCE that the universe
started in a Big Bang. Explain how the universe can be expanding but
infinite.
> Religion is based on faith, the definition of which is just the opposite.
And yet my guess is that you haven't the slightest clue how the mathematics
of the Big Bang are even written let alone understanding anything about
them. So you believe it based solely on faith.
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Date: 17 Nov 2007 03:09:33
From:
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
In misc.survivalism Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "sittingduck" <duck@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in message
> news:Xns99EAA86952C4Fduckrulestheuniverse@invalid.quakefour.net...
> > Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe you can explain to me how religion and science are at odds?
> >
> > Science is based on facts and evidence.
> Then by all means tell me the FACTS and the EVIDENCE that the universe
> started in a Big Bang. Explain how the universe can be expanding but
> infinite.
That's a pretty big subject. Maybe you shoud read a book or somethig?
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
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Date: 17 Nov 2007 07:23:11
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
<EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com > wrote in message
news:fhlm1d$nq9$2@reader1.panix.com...
> In misc.survivalism Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "sittingduck" <duck@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in message
>> news:Xns99EAA86952C4Fduckrulestheuniverse@invalid.quakefour.net...
>> > Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >
>> >> Maybe you can explain to me how religion and science are at odds?
>> >
>> > Science is based on facts and evidence.
>
>> Then by all means tell me the FACTS and the EVIDENCE that the universe
>> started in a Big Bang. Explain how the universe can be expanding but
>> infinite.
>
> That's a pretty big subject. Maybe you shoud read a book or somethig?
I have read all the books in about a half dozen libraries. I have several
hundred books in my home. I have gotten rid of thousands of books as well.
So tell me - in what book is there some FACTS about the Big Bang.
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Date: 18 Nov 2007 09:36:09
From: Jeff R.
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote in message
news:13ju1r2arq3ie9a@corp.supernews.com...
>
> So tell me - in what book is there some FACTS about the Big Bang.
>
Well, most of my astronomy books dispassionately note the increasing red
shift of distant galaxies. This isn't a supposition or a theory or an
hypothesis - it's a simple, repeatable, verifiable observation.
Then - the Big Bang is a purty dam' good explanation for same. Doesn't
involve superstition.
Got a better explanation for that red shift? (*Without* invoking imaginary
sky people!)
--
Jeff R.
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Date: 17 Nov 2007 18:45:01
From:
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
In misc.survivalism Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> I have read all the books in about a half dozen libraries. I have several
> hundred books in my home. I have gotten rid of thousands of books as well.
> So tell me - in what book is there some FACTS about the Big Bang.
The big bang is a theory. Nobody who is knowledgeable would call it a
fact.
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
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Date: 17 Nov 2007 16:06:15
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Global Warming 'Greatest Scam in History'
|
On Nov 17, 6:58 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:913ceb82-c37c-4b1c-8c32-12b6c8f6189d@d50g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > One of the other great people here in the farm community was the
> > federal farm bureau director who fought as long as he could stand it,
> > against the Bu-shit and finally resigned his post because he couldn't
> > knife his friends in the back. The new guy isn't terrible but he sure
> > as hell isn't helping matters.
> > More hypocrisy from the Bushholes.
>
> Is there any doubt that Bush was the hidden Liberal in the woodpile? He has
> made about two correct decisions since he's been in office and he was pushed
> into both of them by circumstances.
>
> He's raised taxes more than any previous President. He's put in entirely new
> bureaucracies that have little or no rhyme or reason to exist. He's in fact
> been more Liberal on economic issues than the most Liberal members of
> Congress.
>
> And the funny thing is that the moronic Liberals are running against Bush
> instead of real Republicans.
I thought his daddy signed the biggest tax increase in US history.
They both have been huge disappointments at best.
Bill C
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Date: 17 Nov 2007 18:49:07
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Global Warming 'Greatest Scam in History'
|
"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:fa56d153-c169-4284-809e-cd363d1bd07d@c29g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 17, 6:58 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>> Is there any doubt that Bush was the hidden Liberal in the woodpile? He
>> has
>> made about two correct decisions since he's been in office and he was
>> pushed
>> into both of them by circumstances.
>>
>> He's raised taxes more than any previous President. He's put in entirely
>> new
>> bureaucracies that have little or no rhyme or reason to exist. He's in
>> fact
>> been more Liberal on economic issues than the most Liberal members of
>> Congress.
>>
>> And the funny thing is that the moronic Liberals are running against Bush
>> instead of real Republicans.
>
> I thought his daddy signed the biggest tax increase in US history.
> They both have been huge disappointments at best.
The two Presidents Bush almost give credence to the idea that there is a
group of internationalists controlling their world.
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Date: 17 Nov 2007 12:16:02
From: Simon Schnizzard
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
<EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com > wrote in message
news:fhncrc$k5h$1@reader1.panix.com...
> In misc.survivalism Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > I have read all the books in about a half dozen libraries. I have
several
> > hundred books in my home. I have gotten rid of thousands of books as
well.
>
> > So tell me - in what book is there some FACTS about the Big Bang.
>
> The big bang is a theory. Nobody who is knowledgeable would call it a
> fact.
>
Unlike the nutcases and their rigid religious bleefs.
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Date: 17 Nov 2007 10:40:10
From: Ed Huntress
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote in message
news:13ju1r2arq3ie9a@corp.supernews.com...
> <EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
>>
>> That's a pretty big subject. Maybe you shoud read a book or somethig?
>
> I have read all the books in about a half dozen libraries. I have several
> hundred books in my home. I have gotten rid of thousands of books as well.
>
Ha-ha! Which ones did you get rid of?
--
Ed Huntress
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Date: 17 Nov 2007 18:15:00
From: Michael A. Terrell
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
Ed Huntress wrote:
>
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
> news:13ju1r2arq3ie9a@corp.supernews.com...
> > <EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
>
> >>
> >> That's a pretty big subject. Maybe you shoud read a book or somethig?
> >
> > I have read all the books in about a half dozen libraries. I have several
> > hundred books in my home. I have gotten rid of thousands of books as well.
> >
>
> Ha-ha! Which ones did you get rid of?
The one's that he'd already colored? After all, there isn't much
space on the refrigerator to stick all of them.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Date: 16 Nov 2007 16:13:09
From: Frank Warner
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
In article <13js1uus270ca89@corp.supernews.com >, Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo. > wrote:
> "Frank Warner" <warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net> wrote in message
> news:161120071138427601%warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net...
> > In article <7Is_i.125$7v1.137351@news.sisna.com>, vinny
> > <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
> >> > http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
> >>
> >> That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the
> >> bible
> >> exists.
> >> How friggen stupid. Dumbasses like that make more atheists than not.
> >>
> >> We need to not seperate science from religion.
> >
> > Yes, we do. 300 years of spectacularly successful science has brought
> > incalculably more benefits to humans than 2000 years of one particular
> > religion I'm thinking of.
>
> Is that so? Perhaps you credit science for more than they have accounted
> themselves.
In 300 years, science has given us virtually painless medicine, made
childbirth a relatively safe process instead of a dangerous one,
lighted, plumbed and heated entire cities, made it possible to go from
one continent to another in a matter of hours and speak to someone on
the other side of the planet (or even off the planet) instantaneously,
eradicated a number of horrible diseases and made others little more
than annoyances, made bigger, faster, stronger, more precise and
durable machines used by the members of these newsgroups, . . . . But
you get the idea, and I haven't even scratched the surface.
In contrast, religion has given us a few great buildings, some music,
some art, literature, and lots of superstitious claptrap, needless
fear, and destructive prejudices.
(But even the great buildings, art, music and literature needed some
science before they could exist.)
> >> Here's an example.
> >>
> >> GOD created the universe.
> >
> > Evidence?
>
> By all means tell us when and where the universe came from and where it's
> ends are.
That's just it. Atheists aren't afraid to say, "I don't know." They
also say, "But we're working on the answer, and we're a little closer
now than we were a while ago."
Theists say, "I know the answer," and every one of them has a different
one.
> > Who or what created God?
>
> That alone proves that you couldn't grasp it if you were told.
>
> > Everything you were taught about Jesus is wrong.
>
> And the proof comes from you.
The proof comes from crawling out from under your superstition and
learning a little about the way history works, particularly religious
history.
> > My answer is, I live in the real world. I have real needs, real hopes,
> > real desires. I have to breathe, eat, shit, fuck, kill and die. It's
> > not too much to ask for any critter I worship to live in the real
> > world, too. If I'm an amoeba floating in a pond in China, chances are I
> > shouldn't be too concerned with an eagle flying over the mountains in
> > Idaho.
>
> Hey, whatever floats your boat is fine. The fact that you find religious
> people so offensive does lead me to believe that you have a lot more
> questions than you'll admit.
I don't find religious people offensive. That is, most of them. Most of
them are perfectly fine and I get along great with them. It's the fact
that religion turns otherwise rational people's minds to mush (or
worse, to mindless violence) that I find offensive.
And yes, I have a million questions that I don't claim to have the
answers to. Like, why would any rational person believe that a Jew
nailed to a tree somehow absolves them of all their sins? And what is
sin, anyway? An offense against God? Which god?
> > That's what the Big Bang theory states, too. There was no "time" before
> > the initial event. It's like saying "what's north of the north pole?"
>
> I suggest you don't get on a game show expecting to last past the first
> round. Your understanding of time and the north pole are somewhat at odds
> with the universe.
I'll never be on a game show. But thanks for the suggestion, anyway.
> > Uh. No. Most dinosaur bones are found in sediments that were buried and
> > then later exposed through erosion or other processes. The sediments
> > could have been dozens or hundreds of meters thick at one time.
>
> By all means tell me - how long is a Day to God?
On this planet, "day" has a very specific meaning. It's a legal measure
of time derived from how long it takes for the Earth to complete one
full rotation in relation to the sun. But God, being an arbitrary
bastard, can redefine it to mean anything He wants, right? Imaginary
friends have super powers.
> > Absolutely mind-boggling wrong. Science is the process of presenting a
> > hypothesis about something observed or suspected, backing it up with a
> > theory that explains the hypothesis, then designing experiments (or
> > doing field work) to DISPROVE the hypothesis, because nothing in
> > science is ever proved, it is only supported (to sometimes incredible
> > degrees) by further challenges and real-world application.
>
> Maybe you can explain to me how religion and science are at odds?
The simplest answer is that religion doesn't work while science does.
Taken a little further, we have thousands of different religions, tens
of thousands if you go back in human history long enough, and all of
them tell a different tale. There is no consistency from one cult to
another. There is no way to calibrate one to another. If there were any
sort of sooper dooper magic sky critter like you suppose, you'd think
he'd manage to get his story straight the first time and every time
instead of reinventing the wheel every few decades or so.
Contrast that with the fact that there's only one scientific method. It
works the same for everybody who follows its procedures, and no other
"reform" methods have come along to supplant it, nor are they likely
to.
-Frank
--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/
|
| | | | | |
Date: 16 Nov 2007 18:05:47
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"Frank Warner" <warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net > wrote in message
news:161120071613095641%warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net...
> In article <13js1uus270ca89@corp.supernews.com>, Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@yahoo.> wrote:
>
>> > Yes, we do. 300 years of spectacularly successful science has brought
>> > incalculably more benefits to humans than 2000 years of one particular
>> > religion I'm thinking of.
>>
>> Is that so? Perhaps you credit science for more than they have accounted
>> themselves.
>
> In 300 years, science has given us virtually painless medicine, made
> childbirth a relatively safe process instead of a dangerous one,
> lighted, plumbed and heated entire cities, made it possible to go from
> one continent to another in a matter of hours and speak to someone on
> the other side of the planet (or even off the planet) instantaneously,
> eradicated a number of horrible diseases and made others little more
> than annoyances, made bigger, faster, stronger, more precise and
> durable machines used by the members of these newsgroups, . . . . But
> you get the idea, and I haven't even scratched the surface.
I hate to point this out but "science" is really only some 150 years old.
Oh, wait, you're trying to tell us that what the CHURCH did was science. Old
Gregor Mendel and his like?
> In contrast, religion has given us a few great buildings, some music,
> some art, literature, and lots of superstitious claptrap, needless
> fear, and destructive prejudices.
And, ahem, science.
>> By all means tell us when and where the universe came from and where it's
>> ends are.
>
> That's just it. Atheists aren't afraid to say, "I don't know."
Ahem, but they aren't to afraid to say that there isn't a God with equal
knowledge.
>> > Everything you were taught about Jesus is wrong.
>>
>> And the proof comes from you.
>
> The proof comes from crawling out from under your superstition and
> learning a little about the way history works, particularly religious
> history.
Ah, yes, your version of history - oh yeah, RELIGIOUS history as if you even
had the slightest clue what you were talking about.
>> Hey, whatever floats your boat is fine. The fact that you find religious
>> people so offensive does lead me to believe that you have a lot more
>> questions than you'll admit.
>
> I don't find religious people offensive. That is, most of them. Most of
> them are perfectly fine and I get along great with them. It's the fact
> that religion turns otherwise rational people's minds to mush (or
> worse, to mindless violence) that I find offensive.
And your claim that you know how the universe was created in a big bang is
like SOOOO scientific.
> And yes, I have a million questions that I don't claim to have the
> answers to.
Strange that you don't seem to have any question about the existance of God.
>> By all means tell me - how long is a Day to God?
>
> On this planet, "day" has a very specific meaning.
But the bible claims that it wasn't until the third day that God created the
earth. So your claim is that he would have had to know what a day was before
there was a sun and then an earth and he would force his time schedule to
your beliefs.
You grow more interesting by the minute. Tell me, does all that knowledge
prevent you from being a stupid ass all the time? Or do you have moments of
lucidity?
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Nov 2007 20:57:24
From: Frank J Warner
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
In article <13jsj3tg0cgftf7@corp.supernews.com >, Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo. > wrote:
> "Frank Warner" <warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net> wrote in message
> news:161120071613095641%warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net...
> > In article <13js1uus270ca89@corp.supernews.com>, Tom Kunich
> > <cyclintom@yahoo.> wrote:
> >
> >> > Yes, we do. 300 years of spectacularly successful science has brought
> >> > incalculably more benefits to humans than 2000 years of one particular
> >> > religion I'm thinking of.
> >>
> >> Is that so? Perhaps you credit science for more than they have accounted
> >> themselves.
> >
> > In 300 years, science has given us virtually painless medicine, made
> > childbirth a relatively safe process instead of a dangerous one,
> > lighted, plumbed and heated entire cities, made it possible to go from
> > one continent to another in a matter of hours and speak to someone on
> > the other side of the planet (or even off the planet) instantaneously,
> > eradicated a number of horrible diseases and made others little more
> > than annoyances, made bigger, faster, stronger, more precise and
> > durable machines used by the members of these newsgroups, . . . . But
> > you get the idea, and I haven't even scratched the surface.
>
> I hate to point this out but "science" is really only some 150 years old.
Really hard to put a date on it. Some say it started as far back as the
Italian Renaissance in the 15th and 16th Centuries, with people like Da
Vinci, Galileo, Copernicus and others who actively started exploring
our world absent silly superstition. (I hold this view, because that is
when the scientific method was first proposed; that events we observe
every day can be explained _and accurately predicted_ by empirical
means rather than supernatural ones.)
300 years was merely a number I plucked out of the air. 1707
corresponds to the important working period of one of the most famous
and influential scientists of all time: Isaac Newton. (Yes, he believed
in God. Lots of other scientists do, too.)
150 years ago, science was in full swing. By then, we had people like
Charles Darwin working on the important questions in nature. I guess
he's one of your favorite guys, huh? (Also a believer, BTW.)
> Oh, wait, you're trying to tell us that what the CHURCH did was science. Old
> Gregor Mendel and his like?
Mendel was a monastic. That's not difficult to understand. Then, as
now, some of the great institutions of higher learning (and scientific
study) were religiously based.
I don't overlook the contributions of religion to scientific knowledge.
For instance, I have enormous respect for the Jesuit order at the
Vatican, who operate one of the most sophisticated observatories on the
planet.
> > In contrast, religion has given us a few great buildings, some music,
> > some art, literature, and lots of superstitious claptrap, needless
> > fear, and destructive prejudices.
>
> And, ahem, science.
I said that. You snipped it. Try to be more honest, you're embarrassing
yourself.
> >> By all means tell us when and where the universe came from and where it's
> >> ends are.
> >
> > That's just it. Atheists aren't afraid to say, "I don't know."
>
> Ahem, but they aren't to afraid to say that there isn't a God with equal
> knowledge.
Most atheists don't say that at all. They say, if there is a God, it's
up to you to provide evidence of such. Until then, it's within my
rights to lack belief in one. It's the default position.
In the official parlance, these are called "weak atheists," but don't
let the name fool you. They'll tear you and your silly superstitions a
new one; most of them have forgotten more about it than you will ever
learn.
Some atheists, on the other hand, make a positive assertion for which
the burden of proof is on them. I am one of those. I am a so-called
"strong atheist." I actively believe that there is no such thing as a
God or gods. And, ironically, I stand on the weakest of evidence,
because my evidence is that there is no evidence.
As somebody once said (an atheist, by the way), "Lack of evidence is
not evidence of lack." But that same person also said, "Sometimes you
can open your mind so much your brain falls out."
> >> > Everything you were taught about Jesus is wrong.
> >>
> >> And the proof comes from you.
No. It comes from real history, not from a book of stories that were
written 40-200 years after the event, from 2nd & 3rd hand sources, and
that do not even support each other in several major details. (Read the
Gospels: who was at the Resurrection and Ascension in each of them?
Don't you think the most important event in the history of mankind
should have been portrayed consistently in its own paltry few
stories?).
> > The proof comes from crawling out from under your superstition and
> > learning a little about the way history works, particularly religious
> > history.
>
> Ah, yes, your version of history - oh yeah, RELIGIOUS history as if you even
> had the slightest clue what you were talking about.
Not my version. A version. One that has some basis in actual historical
fact, supported by contemporary documents and a variety of other
evidence. As opposed to _this_ delightful bit of circular reasoning:
"The bible is true because the bible says it's true."
> >> Hey, whatever floats your boat is fine. The fact that you find religious
> >> people so offensive does lead me to believe that you have a lot more
> >> questions than you'll admit.
> >
> > I don't find religious people offensive. That is, most of them. Most of
> > them are perfectly fine and I get along great with them. It's the fact
> > that religion turns otherwise rational people's minds to mush (or
> > worse, to mindless violence) that I find offensive.
>
> And your claim that you know how the universe was created in a big bang is
> like SOOOO scientific.
I could be wrong. That's my whole point about science. The Big Bang
might be one of those "just so" stories, like the ones you learned in
Sunday School. But the Big Bang is one of the best models we have right
now about how everything we can measure came to be. It works down to
the smallest detail (with caveats, because there are some problems in
some interpretations of it--and some VERY interesting ideas are coming
out of that).
I can assure you that 1000 years from now people will be wondering how
we could believe in such a quaint notion. Those people will be the
descendants of scientists, not Jerry Falwell.
> > And yes, I have a million questions that I don't claim to have the
> > answers to.
>
> Strange that you don't seem to have any question about the existance of God.
No. None at all. I have no question about the purple monkeys flying out
your ass, either. What's that? You say you can't prove there are no
purple monkeys flying out your ass? Well, I say you're wrong, and I
have this book right here that tells me so.
> >> By all means tell me - how long is a Day to God?
> >
> > On this planet, "day" has a very specific meaning.
>
> But the bible claims that it wasn't until the third day that God created the
> earth. So your claim is that he would have had to know what a day was before
> there was a sun and then an earth and he would force his time schedule to
> your beliefs.
Oh, Puh-lease. Save me your ancient regional creation myths. In my neck
of the woods, the world was created by the sky fox and the earth
lizard. You can't prove it didn't happen that way, away out there on
the rainbow bridge.
> You grow more interesting by the minute. Tell me, does all that knowledge
> prevent you from being a stupid ass all the time? Or do you have moments of
> lucidity?
Meh. Grow up. Do you want to talk about this or do you want to hurl
what you mistakenly believe are witty insults?
-Frank
--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Nov 2007 07:15:58
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"Frank J Warner" <warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net > wrote in message
news:161120072057246651%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net...
> In article <13jsj3tg0cgftf7@corp.supernews.com>, Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@yahoo.> wrote:
>
>> "Frank Warner" <warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net> wrote in message
>> news:161120071613095641%warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net...
>> > In article <13js1uus270ca89@corp.supernews.com>, Tom Kunich
>> > <cyclintom@yahoo.> wrote:
>> >
>> >> > Yes, we do. 300 years of spectacularly successful science has
>> >> > brought
>> >> > incalculably more benefits to humans than 2000 years of one
>> >> > particular
>> >> > religion I'm thinking of.
>> >>
>> >> Is that so? Perhaps you credit science for more than they have
>> >> accounted
>> >> themselves.
>> >
>> > In 300 years, science has given us virtually painless medicine, made
>> > childbirth a relatively safe process instead of a dangerous one,
>> > lighted, plumbed and heated entire cities, made it possible to go from
>> > one continent to another in a matter of hours and speak to someone on
>> > the other side of the planet (or even off the planet) instantaneously,
>> > eradicated a number of horrible diseases and made others little more
>> > than annoyances, made bigger, faster, stronger, more precise and
>> > durable machines used by the members of these newsgroups, . . . . But
>> > you get the idea, and I haven't even scratched the surface.
>>
>> I hate to point this out but "science" is really only some 150 years old.
>
> Really hard to put a date on it. Some say it started as far back as the
> Italian Renaissance in the 15th and 16th Centuries, with people like Da
> Vinci, Galileo, Copernicus and others who actively started exploring
> our world absent silly superstition.
So now curiousity is "science"? So every 5 year old is a scientist?
>> Ahem, but they aren't to afraid to say that there isn't a God with equal
>> knowledge.
>
> Most atheists don't say that at all. They say, if there is a God, it's
> up to you to provide evidence of such. Until then, it's within my
> rights to lack belief in one. It's the default position.
The more a real scientist learns about the world around him the more
convinced he becomes that there must be a God. So I guess that neatly
catagorizes your beliefs.
>> Ah, yes, your version of history - oh yeah, RELIGIOUS history as if you
>> even
>> had the slightest clue what you were talking about.
>
> Not my version. A version. One that has some basis in actual historical
> fact, supported by contemporary documents and a variety of other
> evidence. As opposed to _this_ delightful bit of circular reasoning:
> "The bible is true because the bible says it's true."
You are entitled to believe anything you like. Though I am reminded of
"higher science" which talks about the string theories and the origins of
the universe in terms which could NEVER be verified in any manner. Why, you
just have to have faith.
>> And your claim that you know how the universe was created in a big bang
>> is
>> like SOOOO scientific.
>
> I could be wrong.
But that doesn't seem to stop you from claiming religous people are wrong.
What's the word I'm looking for.... oh, yeah - hypocrit.
>> > And yes, I have a million questions that I don't claim to have the
>> > answers to.
>>
>> Strange that you don't seem to have any question about the existance of
>> God.
>
> No. None at all.
Well, that reinforces that word above.
>> You grow more interesting by the minute. Tell me, does all that knowledge
>> prevent you from being a stupid ass all the time? Or do you have moments
>> of
>> lucidity?
>
> Meh. Grow up. Do you want to talk about this or do you want to hurl
> what you mistakenly believe are witty insults?
By all means Frank tell me that you have a degree in mathematics and you
actually understand the math behind the theory of the universe and aren't
taking it purely on faith.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Nov 2007 15:05:29
From:
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
In misc.survivalism Frank J Warner <warnerf@verispammersdiezon.net > wrote:
> In my neck
> of the woods, the world was created by the sky fox and the earth
> lizard.
You are nuts. The world was created by the Lady of the Skirt of Snakes.
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Nov 2007 17:11:54
From: Dan
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
> In misc.survivalism Frank J Warner <warnerf@verispammersdiezon.net> wrote:
>
>> In my neck
>> of the woods, the world was created by the sky fox and the earth
>> lizard.
>
> You are nuts. The world was created by the Lady of the Skirt of Snakes.
>
>
"In the beginning there was this Turtle, and the Turtle was alone..."
Dan
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Nov 2007 12:16:09
From: Frank J Warner
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
In article <fhmvvp$6r2$2@reader1.panix.com >,
<EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com > wrote:
> In misc.survivalism Frank J Warner <warnerf@verispammersdiezon.net> wrote:
>
> > In my neck
> > of the woods, the world was created by the sky fox and the earth
> > lizard.
>
> You are nuts. The world was created by the Lady of the Skirt of Snakes.
You have me there! I am completely nuts!
Does she ever take that damn skirt off?
-Frank
--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Nov 2007 03:53:48
From: *
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
Frank J Warner <warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net > wrote in article
<161120072057246651%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net >...
>
> 300 years was merely a number I plucked out of the air.
Finally.....!!!!!
A liberal athiest who reveals the "unimpeachable source" of his facts and
figures.
Other liberals seem to pluck most of their "facts" out of the air, too!
Just watch the Democrats debate!
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Nov 2007 15:06:41
From:
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
In misc.survivalism * <nospam@this.addy.com > wrote:
> Other liberals seem to pluck most of their "facts" out of the air, too!
What "seems" to you is very different from the real world.
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Nov 2007 04:12:23
From: Frank J Warner
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
In article <01c828fe$c89d10c0$5c92c3d8@race >, <nospam@this.addy.com>
wrote:
> Frank J Warner <warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net> wrote in article
> <161120072057246651%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net>...
> >
> > 300 years was merely a number I plucked out of the air.
>
>
> Finally.....!!!!!
>
> A liberal athiest who reveals the "unimpeachable source" of his facts and
> figures.
I plucked it out of the air because there is no set date when science
"began." And you dishonestly snipped my reason for choosing it.
What makes you think I'm liberal? Or is that just your general epithet
for everything you don't understand or don't like?
-Frank
--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Nov 2007 17:09:55
From: Dan
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
Frank J Warner wrote:
> In article <01c828fe$c89d10c0$5c92c3d8@race>, <nospam@this.addy.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Frank J Warner <warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net> wrote in article
>> <161120072057246651%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon.net>...
>>> 300 years was merely a number I plucked out of the air.
>>
>> Finally.....!!!!!
>>
>> A liberal athiest who reveals the "unimpeachable source" of his facts and
>> figures.
>
> I plucked it out of the air because there is no set date when science
> "began." And you dishonestly snipped my reason for choosing it.
>
> What makes you think I'm liberal? Or is that just your general epithet
> for everything you don't understand or don't like?
>
> -Frank
>
He's using the Reaganite definition: Liberal: "all who are not
Republican enough."
(To be precise, Reagan usually referred to "the L-word")
Dan
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Nov 2007 14:24:55
From: RadicalModerate
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
In misc.survivalism Frank J Warner <warnerf@verispammersdiezon.net > wrote:
> I plucked it out of the air because there is no set date when science
> "began." And you dishonestly snipped my reason for choosing it.
> What makes you think I'm liberal? Or is that just your general epithet
> for everything you don't understand or don't like?
I'd daresay science began in ancient Egypt before the Greay Pyramids were
built.
And anyone who chooses a posting "nym" intended to be difficult to filter,
well I wouldn't expend too many wetware cycles on whatever he has to say
here :) .
--
The published From: address is a trap.
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Nov 2007 07:21:33
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"RadicalModerate" <radicalmoderate@attnn.com > wrote in message
news:fhmtjn$l1e$1@reader1.panix.com...
> In misc.survivalism Frank J Warner <warnerf@verispammersdiezon.net> wrote:
>
>> I plucked it out of the air because there is no set date when science
>> "began." And you dishonestly snipped my reason for choosing it.
>
>> What makes you think I'm liberal? Or is that just your general epithet
>> for everything you don't understand or don't like?
>
> I'd daresay science began in ancient Egypt before the Greay Pyramids were
> built.
>
> And anyone who chooses a posting "nym" intended to be difficult to filter,
> well I wouldn't expend too many wetware cycles on whatever he has to say
> here :) .
You could dare and you'd be wrong. Science began with the invention of the
Scientific Method somewhere around 1850 by a man named Whewell if memory
serves.
Curiosity and learning are not science. Would you say that anyone that
learns anything about any science is therefore a scientist? No, it requires
a very strict interpretation of the world around you and a particular way of
learning by it.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Nov 2007 10:05:18
From: Frank J Warner
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
In article <13ju1nvhs46vh76@corp.supernews.com >, Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo. > wrote:
> "RadicalModerate" <radicalmoderate@attnn.com> wrote in message
> news:fhmtjn$l1e$1@reader1.panix.com...
> > In misc.survivalism Frank J Warner <warnerf@verispammersdiezon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> I plucked it out of the air because there is no set date when science
> >> "began." And you dishonestly snipped my reason for choosing it.
> >
> >> What makes you think I'm liberal? Or is that just your general epithet
> >> for everything you don't understand or don't like?
> >
> > I'd daresay science began in ancient Egypt before the Greay Pyramids were
> > built.
> >
> > And anyone who chooses a posting "nym" intended to be difficult to filter,
> > well I wouldn't expend too many wetware cycles on whatever he has to say
> > here :) .
>
> You could dare and you'd be wrong. Science began with the invention of the
> Scientific Method somewhere around 1850 by a man named Whewell if memory
> serves.
>
> Curiosity and learning are not science. Would you say that anyone that
> learns anything about any science is therefore a scientist? No, it requires
> a very strict interpretation of the world around you and a particular way of
> learning by it.
>
You can make lots of different arguments about this. The ancients had a
fairly good grasp of real world mechanics. They built buildings and
devices that boggle the mind today. Was it science? Yeah, in many ways
it was.
You can also make restrictive statements about the nature of science,
as you have. In which case one could easily argue that "true science"
didn't begin until 1934 when Karl Popper published his book, _The Logic
of Scientific Discovery_, in which he proposed (among other things)
that data must be _falsifiable_ before they could be considered
scientifically significant.
I'm taking a middle view. I still hold that the infancy of modern
science occurred in the 15th & 16th centuries with the discovery of
empirical evidence. By the 1700s it was in full swing. A hundred years
later it had brought us almost completely out of one of the darkest
periods in human history; a period entirely ruled by religion and
superstition: the Middle Ages.
Thanks for the reminder about Whewell. I'd heard of him before but had
forgotten about his contributions. It was a treat to re-read some of
his accomplishments.
-Frank
--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com
|
| | |
Date: 15 Nov 2007 17:31:38
From: beekeep
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:03:45 -0500, "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com > wrote:
>
>Is there a GOD? There's definetely a life force?
> Is it an old man with a beard, proberbly not.
> What is it...never gonna know, we lack the tools to know. A blind man can
>never see. Its just the way it is.
>
> Are we special? Now thats the big question. Are we just the most evolved or
>are we chosen and created for a specific purpose?
>
>
>
If there was a God, wouldn't our penises taste like chocolate?
beekeep
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Nov 2007 17:32:12
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"beekeep" <honeybs@radix.net > wrote in message
news:473c816f.2258419390@usenet.radix.net...
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:03:45 -0500, "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote:
>>
>>Is there a GOD? There's definetely a life force?
>>
> If there was a God, wouldn't our penises taste like chocolate?
Ahem, there are some here who claim they do.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Nov 2007 11:16:52
From: Cliff
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:03:45 -0500, "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com > wrote:
>
>"Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>
>That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the bible
>exists.
> How friggen stupid. Dumbasses like that make more atheists than not.
>
> We need to not seperate science from religion.
>
>Here's an example.
>
>GOD created the universe.
> The universe is everything we know, including laws of physics.
> So before the "universe" was created was GOD bound by the laws of physics?
>Who knows, but if he created them, then they didnt exist at the creation?
>
> I am a Christian, but one heck of a confused one.
> The man lived.
>the man was killed on a cross.
>those are facts. Beyond that who knows.
>
>But its deep, real deep. The bible is called the new testememnet, or the
>"new covenent". Its what the whole thing is about from adam to me. Thats why
>we are called sons of GOD and Jesus is called the Son of man. To understand
>that one must understand the covenent. I bet less than .0001% even know what
>the covenent is. Let alone the "new" covenent.
>
> The Earth is a self sufficient machine, a spaceship kinda. Nobody disputes
>that. Way to complex to happen by chance.
>
>If you don't believe in GOD, or life force, or "the force" then your blind.
>Things are either alive or there not. Once they are not alive they are never
>gonna be alive. The life force isnt there.
> It's in everything alive, once its there nothing can stop it.
>
> The problem arises when we think we have to know exactly what GOD is.
> To my dog I am god.
>
>Seriously, look at it this way.
>
> Pretend we are 2 dimensional. A flat square with no height.
>Then GOD stands next to us, but he is 3 dimensional, he has height.
> When we look at him what will we see, another 2 dimensional object. We
>cannot see height if we are 2 dimensional.
> WE CAN NEVER put an image in our heads other than what we are. So we make
>him seem like an old man.
>
> Then there's time.
> If GOD created the Universe, time would be something created at that time.
>So when he created the universe time hadn't existed yet.
> Can we contemplate that? NO. We are clocks, we have a voltage to syncronize
>us. Ever notice time is whipping by, or going slow, all thats going on is
>our voltage is off from everyone else.
>
>One thing I have a problem with, most dinosaur bones are found less than 1
>foot under the soil.
> Now leave something in your yard for 100 years and the thing is buried. im
>supposed to believe in millions of years or hundreds of millions of years
>these bones are laying on the surface? How ridiculous.
> Carbon dating is not seen as fact. IN fact the guy who invented the
>process said it was flawed.
>
> I know, we were told its fact so it is!
> Bullshit. For every scientist that says its fact another disputes it.
>
>Then there's the footprints, the ones they say were from the first animal to
>walk on land from the sea. On some beach in ireland.
> WHAT?
> Footprints lasted on the surface for 200 million years?
>Im sorry, thats just the dumbest shit i ever heard. Friggen scientists dream
>shit up in their head, then go out to prove it.
> Thats how its done, ask any scientist.
>
>Is there a GOD? There's definetely a life force?
> Is it an old man with a beard, proberbly not.
> What is it...never gonna know, we lack the tools to know. A blind man can
>never see. Its just the way it is.
>
> Are we special? Now thats the big question. Are we just the most evolved or
>are we chosen and created for a specific purpose?
>
>
|
| | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 14:45:20
From: Adam Corolla
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com > wrote in message
news:7Is_i.125$7v1.137351@news.sisna.com...
>
> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>
> That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the
> bible exists.
> How friggen stupid.
Actually, that's pretty much what the Christians I know, who are otherwise
intelligent people, believe:
The Bible is the word of God because it says so in the Bible.
The earth is only 8,000 years old because that's what the Bible seems to
say. All the evidence to the contrary is simply misunderstood by scientists
because, I presume, the devil is misleading them.
Dinosaurs existed at the same time as people.
The theory of evolution is obvious nonsense.
The Bible is true and the proof of that is that Israel was reformed, which
the Bible predicts.
Etc.
I'm certainly not saying that's what *all* Christians believe. The ones I
know happen to be fundamentalists, Bible literalists.
On one hand it seems sad to give in so completely to superstition, on the
other hand I've seen that it doesn't really matter what you believe as long
as it works for you. Because what can you really know for certain anyway?
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Nov 2007 11:12:15
From: Cliff
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:45:20 -0600, "Adam Corolla"
<nospam@nospam03550265902.com > wrote:
>
>"vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote in message
>news:7Is_i.125$7v1.137351@news.sisna.com...
>>
>> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>>> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>>
>> That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the
>> bible exists.
>> How friggen stupid.
>
>Actually, that's pretty much what the Christians I know, who are otherwise
>intelligent people, believe:
>
>The Bible is the word of God because it says so in the Bible.
>The earth is only 8,000 years old because that's what the Bible seems to
>say. All the evidence to the contrary is simply misunderstood by scientists
>because, I presume, the devil is misleading them.
>Dinosaurs existed at the same time as people.
>The theory of evolution is obvious nonsense.
>The Bible is true and the proof of that is that Israel was reformed, which
>the Bible predicts.
>
>Etc.
>
>I'm certainly not saying that's what *all* Christians believe. The ones I
>know happen to be fundamentalists, Bible literalists.
>
>On one hand it seems sad to give in so completely to superstition, on the
>other hand I've seen that it doesn't really matter what you believe as long
>as it works for you. Because what can you really know for certain anyway?
>
"New Conservative Science Theme Park"
[
will open this spring in Kentucky
.....
The centrepiece of the museum is a series of huge model dinosaurs,
built by the former head of design at Universal Studios, which are
portrayed as existing alongside man, contrary to received scientific
opinion that they lived millions of years apart.
.....
Other exhibits include images of Adam and Eve, a model of Noah's Ark
and a planetarium demonstrating how God made the Earth in six days.
.....
"We want people to be confronted by the dinosaurs," said Mr Ham. "It's
going to be a first class experience. Visitors are going to be hit by
the professionalism of this place."
.....
Among the projects still to be finished is a reconstruction of the
Grand Canyon, purportedly formed by the swirling waters of the Great
Flood .....
.....
Mr Ham's Answers in Genesis movement blames the 1999 massacre at
Columbine High School in Colorado, in which two teenagers killed 12
classmates and a teacher before killing themselves, on evolutionist
teaching, claiming that the perpetrators believed in Darwin's survival
of the fittest.
.....
Other exhibits in the museum will blame homosexuals for Aids ...
.....
while in another room, visitors will see a tyrannosaurus rex pursuing
Adam and Eve ....
.....
... which gained further strength with the re-election of President
Bush in November....
.....
... America's religious Deep South – have got around the ban by
teaching the theory of "intelligent design" ....
.....
"Since President Bush's re-election we have been getting more
membership applications than we can handle,'' said Mr Ham ..
]
http://tinyurl.com/6xjdb
HTH
--
Cliff
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 19:47:35
From: vinny
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"Adam Corolla" <nospam@nospam03550265902.com > wrote in message
news:Fdudnb-ZsOj8w6banZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote in message
> news:7Is_i.125$7v1.137351@news.sisna.com...
>>
>> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>>> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>>
>> That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the
>> bible exists.
>> How friggen stupid.
>
> Actually, that's pretty much what the Christians I know, who are otherwise
> intelligent people, believe:
>
> The Bible is the word of God because it says so in the Bible.
> The earth is only 8,000 years old because that's what the Bible seems to
> say. All the evidence to the contrary is simply misunderstood by
> scientists because, I presume, the devil is misleading them.
> Dinosaurs existed at the same time as people.
> The theory of evolution is obvious nonsense.
> The Bible is true and the proof of that is that Israel was reformed, which
> the Bible predicts.
>
> Etc.
>
> I'm certainly not saying that's what *all* Christians believe. The ones I
> know happen to be fundamentalists, Bible literalists.
>
> On one hand it seems sad to give in so completely to superstition, on the
> other hand I've seen that it doesn't really matter what you believe as
> long as it works for you. Because what can you really know for certain
> anyway?
>
>
Except for one thing. According to Christianity, if you don't believe, your
condemned to being away from GOD forever.
scary.
I try to mix what we know scientifically with what I read. It almost tells
you to do that in a lot of places in the bible.
And I never read the 8000 year thing. Ive heard weeks of years, and stuff
like that, but never referencing the creation.
And the devil? That crap scares the hell out of me.
According to the bible, he hates us because he refused to serve us like GOD
told him too. He would only serve GOD and no other.
In the book of JOB they sound like they are two guys that work together at
the office.
scaaaarrryyy.
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Nov 2007 11:17:14
From: Cliff
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:47:35 -0500, "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com > wrote:
>
>"Adam Corolla" <nospam@nospam03550265902.com> wrote in message
>news:Fdudnb-ZsOj8w6banZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote in message
>> news:7Is_i.125$7v1.137351@news.sisna.com...
>>>
>>> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>>>> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>>>
>>> That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the
>>> bible exists.
>>> How friggen stupid.
>>
>> Actually, that's pretty much what the Christians I know, who are otherwise
>> intelligent people, believe:
>>
>> The Bible is the word of God because it says so in the Bible.
>> The earth is only 8,000 years old because that's what the Bible seems to
>> say. All the evidence to the contrary is simply misunderstood by
>> scientists because, I presume, the devil is misleading them.
>> Dinosaurs existed at the same time as people.
>> The theory of evolution is obvious nonsense.
>> The Bible is true and the proof of that is that Israel was reformed, which
>> the Bible predicts.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> I'm certainly not saying that's what *all* Christians believe. The ones I
>> know happen to be fundamentalists, Bible literalists.
>>
>> On one hand it seems sad to give in so completely to superstition, on the
>> other hand I've seen that it doesn't really matter what you believe as
>> long as it works for you. Because what can you really know for certain
>> anyway?
>>
>>
>
>Except for one thing. According to Christianity, if you don't believe, your
>condemned to being away from GOD forever.
> scary.
> I try to mix what we know scientifically with what I read. It almost tells
>you to do that in a lot of places in the bible.
>And I never read the 8000 year thing. Ive heard weeks of years, and stuff
>like that, but never referencing the creation.
> And the devil? That crap scares the hell out of me.
> According to the bible, he hates us because he refused to serve us like GOD
>told him too. He would only serve GOD and no other.
> In the book of JOB they sound like they are two guys that work together at
>the office.
>
>scaaaarrryyy.
>
|
| | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 20:04:17
From: Proctologically Violated©®
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com > wrote in message
news:HGM_i.84$AX3.120951@news.sisna.com...
>
> "Adam Corolla" <nospam@nospam03550265902.com> wrote in message
> news:Fdudnb-ZsOj8w6banZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote in message
>> news:7Is_i.125$7v1.137351@news.sisna.com...
>>>
>>> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>>>> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>>>
>>> That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the
>>> bible exists.
>>> How friggen stupid.
>>
>> Actually, that's pretty much what the Christians I know, who are
>> otherwise intelligent people, believe:
>>
>> The Bible is the word of God because it says so in the Bible.
>> The earth is only 8,000 years old because that's what the Bible seems to
>> say. All the evidence to the contrary is simply misunderstood by
>> scientists because, I presume, the devil is misleading them.
>> Dinosaurs existed at the same time as people.
>> The theory of evolution is obvious nonsense.
>> The Bible is true and the proof of that is that Israel was reformed,
>> which the Bible predicts.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> I'm certainly not saying that's what *all* Christians believe. The ones
>> I know happen to be fundamentalists, Bible literalists.
>>
>> On one hand it seems sad to give in so completely to superstition, on the
>> other hand I've seen that it doesn't really matter what you believe as
>> long as it works for you. Because what can you really know for certain
>> anyway?
>>
>>
>
> Except for one thing. According to Christianity, if you don't believe,
> your condemned to being away from GOD forever.
> scary.
> I try to mix what we know scientifically with what I read. It almost
> tells you to do that in a lot of places in the bible.
> And I never read the 8000 year thing. Ive heard weeks of years, and stuff
> like that, but never referencing the creation.
> And the devil? That crap scares the hell out of me.
> According to the bible, he hates us because he refused to serve us like
> GOD told him too. He would only serve GOD and no other.
> In the book of JOB they sound like they are two guys that work together
> at the office.
The original good cop-bad cop strat.
Give yerself a break w/ the Kamasutra.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
AND,
Make sure whomever you do vote for believes in
ABSOLUTE separation of Church & State--ferchrissakes
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
>
> scaaaarrryyy.
>
>
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 20:23:30
From: vinny
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"Proctologically Violated©®" <entropic3.14decay@optonline2.718.net > wrote in
message news:cWM_i.2279$ID.782@newsfe08.lga...
>
> "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote in message
> news:HGM_i.84$AX3.120951@news.sisna.com...
>>
>> "Adam Corolla" <nospam@nospam03550265902.com> wrote in message
>> news:Fdudnb-ZsOj8w6banZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7Is_i.125$7v1.137351@news.sisna.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>>>>> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>>>>
>>>> That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the
>>>> bible exists.
>>>> How friggen stupid.
>>>
>>> Actually, that's pretty much what the Christians I know, who are
>>> otherwise intelligent people, believe:
>>>
>>> The Bible is the word of God because it says so in the Bible.
>>> The earth is only 8,000 years old because that's what the Bible seems to
>>> say. All the evidence to the contrary is simply misunderstood by
>>> scientists because, I presume, the devil is misleading them.
>>> Dinosaurs existed at the same time as people.
>>> The theory of evolution is obvious nonsense.
>>> The Bible is true and the proof of that is that Israel was reformed,
>>> which the Bible predicts.
>>>
>>> Etc.
>>>
>>> I'm certainly not saying that's what *all* Christians believe. The ones
>>> I know happen to be fundamentalists, Bible literalists.
>>>
>>> On one hand it seems sad to give in so completely to superstition, on
>>> the other hand I've seen that it doesn't really matter what you believe
>>> as long as it works for you. Because what can you really know for
>>> certain anyway?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Except for one thing. According to Christianity, if you don't believe,
>> your condemned to being away from GOD forever.
>> scary.
>> I try to mix what we know scientifically with what I read. It almost
>> tells you to do that in a lot of places in the bible.
>> And I never read the 8000 year thing. Ive heard weeks of years, and stuff
>> like that, but never referencing the creation.
>> And the devil? That crap scares the hell out of me.
>> According to the bible, he hates us because he refused to serve us like
>> GOD told him too. He would only serve GOD and no other.
>> In the book of JOB they sound like they are two guys that work together
>> at the office.
>
> The original good cop-bad cop strat.
> Give yerself a break w/ the Kamasutra.
Ok, I will when i figure out what that means.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 23:24:11
From: Proctologically Violated©®
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com > wrote in message
news:mcN_i.86$kX3.104551@news.sisna.com...
>
> "Proctologically Violated©®" <entropic3.14decay@optonline2.718.net> wrote
> in message news:cWM_i.2279$ID.782@newsfe08.lga...
>>
>> "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote in message
>> news:HGM_i.84$AX3.120951@news.sisna.com...
>>>
>>> "Adam Corolla" <nospam@nospam03550265902.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Fdudnb-ZsOj8w6banZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:7Is_i.125$7v1.137351@news.sisna.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>>>>>> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>>>>>
>>>>> That was retarded. there were no facts even mentioned. Oh, except the
>>>>> bible exists.
>>>>> How friggen stupid.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, that's pretty much what the Christians I know, who are
>>>> otherwise intelligent people, believe:
>>>>
>>>> The Bible is the word of God because it says so in the Bible.
>>>> The earth is only 8,000 years old because that's what the Bible seems
>>>> to say. All the evidence to the contrary is simply misunderstood by
>>>> scientists because, I presume, the devil is misleading them.
>>>> Dinosaurs existed at the same time as people.
>>>> The theory of evolution is obvious nonsense.
>>>> The Bible is true and the proof of that is that Israel was reformed,
>>>> which the Bible predicts.
>>>>
>>>> Etc.
>>>>
>>>> I'm certainly not saying that's what *all* Christians believe. The
>>>> ones I know happen to be fundamentalists, Bible literalists.
>>>>
>>>> On one hand it seems sad to give in so completely to superstition, on
>>>> the other hand I've seen that it doesn't really matter what you believe
>>>> as long as it works for you. Because what can you really know for
>>>> certain anyway?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Except for one thing. According to Christianity, if you don't believe,
>>> your condemned to being away from GOD forever.
>>> scary.
>>> I try to mix what we know scientifically with what I read. It almost
>>> tells you to do that in a lot of places in the bible.
>>> And I never read the 8000 year thing. Ive heard weeks of years, and
>>> stuff like that, but never referencing the creation.
>>> And the devil? That crap scares the hell out of me.
>>> According to the bible, he hates us because he refused to serve us like
>>> GOD told him too. He would only serve GOD and no other.
>>> In the book of JOB they sound like they are two guys that work together
>>> at the office.
>>
>> The original good cop-bad cop strat.
>> Give yerself a break w/ the Kamasutra.
>
> Ok, I will when i figure out what that means.
It's the east indian bibble, basically a very long sex manual.
It's helps to be double jointed, or at least very flexible.
My HoloBarre can help greatly along these lines.
Well, actually, as usual, the burden falls on the female to be double
jointed, so you might want to get my shit for her.
Or move to India. :)
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
AND,
Make sure whomever you do vote for believes in
ABSOLUTE separation of Church & State--ferchrissakes
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
>
>
|
| |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 18:25:38
From: Adam Corolla
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
|
"Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com > wrote in message
news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
LOL!
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 10:29:25
From: Dixon
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
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"Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com > wrote in message
news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
Checkmate huh? Well let's get a "REAL" Christian response for your video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=o5jRklNY0Uw&watch_response
Dixon
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 03:22:44
From: Trevor Jones
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
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Dixon wrote:
> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>
>> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>
>
>
> Checkmate huh? Well let's get a "REAL" Christian response for your video.
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=o5jRklNY0Uw&watch_response
>
> Dixon
>
>
I've been accosted by a few of the type in the first video (checkmate
guy) and they were trying to sell me on their brand. PITA
The second guy actually made me laugh. But I think I would rather
share a booth in a restaraunt with the second guy.
Cheers
Trevor Jones
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 14:53:10
From: Adam Corolla
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
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"Trevor Jones" <t.o.jones@telus.net > wrote in message
news:8St_i.28202$h57.8518@edtnps89...
> Dixon wrote:
>> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>>
>>> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>>
>>
>>
>> Checkmate huh? Well let's get a "REAL" Christian response for your video.
>>
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=o5jRklNY0Uw&watch_response
>>
>> Dixon
> I've been accosted by a few of the type in the first video (checkmate
> guy) and they were trying to sell me on their brand. PITA
You know that was all tongue-in-cheek, right?
> The second guy actually made me laugh. But I think I would rather share a
> booth in a restaraunt with the second guy.
>
> Cheers
> Trevor Jones
The second guy seemed schizophrenic to me. They can be entertaining at
times, but if you know someone who's gone through that then it's just sad.
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 04:12:38
From: Trevor Jones
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
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Adam Corolla wrote:
> "Trevor Jones" <t.o.jones@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:8St_i.28202$h57.8518@edtnps89...
>
>>Dixon wrote:
>>
>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Checkmate huh? Well let's get a "REAL" Christian response for your video.
>>>
>>>http://youtube.com/watch?v=o5jRklNY0Uw&watch_response
>>>
>>>Dixon
>>
>> I've been accosted by a few of the type in the first video (checkmate
>>guy) and they were trying to sell me on their brand. PITA
>
>
> You know that was all tongue-in-cheek, right?
>
>
>> The second guy actually made me laugh. But I think I would rather share a
>>booth in a restaraunt with the second guy.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Trevor Jones
>
>
> The second guy seemed schizophrenic to me. They can be entertaining at
> times, but if you know someone who's gone through that then it's just sad.
>
>
I'll still choose him over a zealot.
Cheers
Trevor Jones
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Date: 17 Nov 2007 17:26:13
From: Richard W.
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
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"Trevor Jones" <t.o.jones@telus.net > wrote in message
news:WGP_i.36282$h57.16606@edtnps89...
I am not replying to anyone in particular. I have read some of the postings
and thought I would say a few things.
I think it's rather odd that atheism was ruled by the supreme court as a
religion in 1961.
http://www.dakotavoice.com/200508/20050820_1.asp
The Supreme Court has said that a religion need not be based on a belief in
the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins,
the Court described "secular humanism" as a religion.
I also find the think soy's of people who claim to be Christian's
disturbing, since what they are writing as fact is not really. Christian's
are supposed to read the bible.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that
needed not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. KJV
Science and the bible complement one another. Where the bible talks about
things centuries before it's proven by science.
In Astronomy the bible says in Proverbs 8:27 written between 1033-975 B.C.
Proverbs 8:27 "When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep," NASB
Another example is in Isaiah 40:22 which is written about 745-695 B.C.
Where the earth is described as a circle or ball.
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, KJV
Aristotle believed the earth to be round in shape, because ships disappear
over the horizon and the shape of the earth on the moon during an eclipse
seen on the moon. 384-322 B.C. To bad only his students believed the
evidences he presented.
In 1520 A.D. the earth was still believed to be flat until the voyages of
Columbus and Magellan along with the introduction of the compass.
The bible says the earth isn't supported or not sitting on anything. Job
26:7 says the earth hangs on nothing written about 2000 B.C. Yet the history
of science still believed in the Ptolemy system, which says the earth was
rigidly supported and all movement was in the heavens. This is before 1543
A.D. Remember in grade school they told us that before Columbus if you went
to far out you would fall off the edge of the earth.
Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the
earth upon nothing. KJV
You can find many examples of science written in the bible on the subjects
of astronomy, geology, oceanography, meteorology, physics, biology and
archaeology. There are many books written showing the bible to give
scientific fact centuries before science proved bible facts were indeed
true. One of them is "HAS GOD SPOKEN" written by an engineer A. O. Schnabel.
You can buy this book on the web if you do a search for it.
A lot of people talk about dinosaurs and man living at the same time on the
earth. We have a bible account in Job describing a large animal that Job had
seen which bends his tail like a cedar. If there are other examples of this
I haven't found them yet.
Job 40:15-17
15 "Behold now, Behemoth, which I made as well as you;
He eats grass like an ox.
16 "Behold now, his strength in his loins,
And his power in the muscles of his belly.
17 "He bends his tail like a cedar ;
The sinews of his thighs are knit together. NASB
I have not found an honest Preacher who would give a date of how old the
earth is. The bible doesn't say exactly. Some count the genealogies to
arrive at a date of the earth, yet what does the bible say about that.
1Timothy 1:3-5 As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at
Ephesus, in order that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange
doctrines, 4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which
give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of
God which is by faith.
NASB
Many Jews converted to Christianity by the thousands as written in the
book of Acts. In James 1:1 it say's "to the twelve tribes". Which is a way
of honoring those Jews who converted to Christ. The old testament shows how
God dealt with the Jews every time they turned from him to worship other
gods. The old testament has about 350 prophecies pointing to Jesus the
Christ, which is the one the Jews were waiting to come. The promise of
salvation was made to the Jews first, then everyone else.
Romans 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation
to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
NASB
This verse is a quote from Jesus showing there is no male or female in
heaven, but we are like the angels. What was that nonsense about getting a
bunch of virgins in the after life?
Matthew 22:30-31
"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but
are like angels in heaven. NASB
This verse shows that the devil has his own angels.
Matthew 25:41
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones,
into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels ;
NASB
This verse shows what happens to those who do not confess and follow Jesus
the Christ.
Luke 12:8-9
"And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man
shall confess him also before the angels of God; 9 but he who denies Me
before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
NASB
Angels who sin will be cast into hell.
2 Peter 2:4-5
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell
and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
NASB
There is a lot to know about God and Jesus and the only way to know is to
read the bible. If you do that you will see that it takes more than lip
service to God to get to heaven and by what I have read many who claim to be
Christians will not make it, unless they study their bible and do what it
says. Remember that the devil not only believes in GOD, but has spoken to
him and where is he going to spend eternity. So where does your belief only
leave you?
The promise is to those who believe and are baptized into Christ and
continue in the faith.
Mark 16:16-17
"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has
disbelieved shall be condemned.
NASB
Jude 3-4
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common
salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend
earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand
marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our
God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
NASB
The bible says you are to study to show yourself approved of GOD. Nowhere
can you find anyone who prayed their way to heaven like in the believers
prayer. You should pray for guidance to find you way. You cannot find a
passage that says the preacher can study for you. You must do it yourself.
2 Timothy 2:15-16Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that
needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.16 But shun
profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
KJV
Richard W.
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 18:29:31
From: Adam Corolla
Subject: Re: Checkmate, Atheists!
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"Dixon" <dixon263@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:AeKdnVClE7GdX6TanZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:k01jj31hmt85d6ct8a58fj8rdamvkrbl2j@4ax.com...
>> http://www.shoutfile.com/v/6Ru0fdxV/Checkmate_Atheists
>
>
> Checkmate huh? Well let's get a "REAL" Christian response for your video.
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=o5jRklNY0Uw&watch_response
>
> Dixon
That one's just sad.
By the way, you know the "checkmate" video is tongue-in-cheek, right? If
you watch it, you'll see what I mean.
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