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Main
Date: 02 Aug 2007 16:45:32
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
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I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if this
is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I prefer
the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One possible
advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind resistance.
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Date: 05 Aug 2007 00:31:20
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
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On Aug 2, 7:45 pm, "hizar...@yahoo.com" <hizar...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
> brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if this
> is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I prefer
> the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One possible
> advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind resistance.
could be innervation from hand to brain to hand to ... operates better
when the wrist lines up with forearm
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Date: 04 Aug 2007 22:31:07
From: Stu Fleming
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
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Climbing seated on the hoods is just plain dangerous.
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Date: 04 Aug 2007 23:14:08
From: Kyle Legate
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
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Stu Fleming wrote:
> Climbing seated on the hoods is just plain dangerous.
What could happen?
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Date: 05 Aug 2007 11:57:37
From: Stu Fleming
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
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Kyle Legate wrote:
> Stu Fleming wrote:
>> Climbing seated on the hoods is just plain dangerous.
>
> What could happen?
>
You could get a weird instability problem when putting the power down.
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Date: 04 Aug 2007 15:31:42
From: Cycle Carl
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
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"Kyle Legate" <legatek@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:5hk8h1F3kfjj9U1@mid.individual.net...
> Stu Fleming wrote:
>> Climbing seated on the hoods is just plain dangerous.
>
> What could happen?
>
Well, for one thing, to reach the pedals one would have to face backwards.
Which makes it easier to see any wheel sucking scum. Which would lead to
road rage. Which could be dangerous. I can't think of any thing else
dangerous about it ;-
--
Carl
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Date: 03 Aug 2007 17:06:38
From:
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
On Aug 3, 9:30 am, RonSonic <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:34:55 -0400, "Steve Freides" <st...@fridayscomputer.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Scott" <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1186107244.402534.315260@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Aug 2, 6:51 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> >> wrote:
> >>> hizar...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> > I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
> >>> > brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if
> >>> > this
> >>> > is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I
> >>> > prefer
> >>> > the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One
> >>> > possible
> >>> > advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind
> >>> > resistance.
>
> >>> Wind resistance is approximately (speed / 40 kph)^3, assuming you can
> >>> ride @ 40 kph w/o rolling resistance at the same power on the flats.
> >>> So if you're climbing @ 16 kph, this corresponds to (2/5)^3 = 8 / 125
> >>> = 6.4% of your total power. If being on the hoods saves 5% of this,
> >>> it's 0.3% of your total power, or 0.8 watts, if you climb at 250
> >>> watts.
>
> >>> Obviously, wind resistance is a lesser impact the slower you're
> >>> going, so on steeper climbs, the tops have a lesser penalty. The
> >>> Euro-pros tend to climb at a fairly brisk clip, expending a greater
> >>> fraction of their power on wind resistance than you or I would on the
> >>> same climb.
>
> >>> Dan
>
> >> Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
> >> so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
> >> position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
> >> don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
> >> hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
> >> I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
> >> hoods, they would.
>
> >I recall reading somewhere that relatively recently (last 10
> >years-ish?), the pros started riding wider bars because the ability to
> >breath more easily/better was worth more what they may have lost in the
> >way of aerodynamics. Might be something to that here as well, i.e., the
> >tops require a narrower grip than the hoods.
>
> >No science claimed, just thinkin' out loud. I'm still riding 40 cm
> >bars.
>
> Some of the pro's have an almost bizarre lack of upper body strength compared to
> even a moderately fit sport level rider.* They may want the wider bar for more
> support.
>
> * Who do you suppose opens the pickle jar at the Rasmussen household
>
> Ron- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Why are you concerned about Rasmussen's pickle?
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Date: 03 Aug 2007 15:39:03
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
I am convinced it's really riding style preference. I believe the
trend started when Indurain won his TDF's.
On Aug 2, 7:34 pm, "Steve Freides"
<st...@fridayscomputer.com > wrote:
> "Scott" <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1186107244.402534.315260@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 6:51 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> > wrote:
> >> hizar...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> > I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
> >> > brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if
> >> > this
> >> > is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I
> >> > prefer
> >> > the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One
> >> > possible
> >> > advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind
> >> > resistance.
>
> >> Wind resistance is approximately (speed / 40 kph)^3, assuming you can
> >> ride @ 40 kph w/o rolling resistance at the same power on the flats.
> >> So if you're climbing @ 16 kph, this corresponds to (2/5)^3 = 8 / 125
> >> = 6.4% of your total power. If being on the hoods saves 5% of this,
> >> it's 0.3% of your total power, or 0.8 watts, if you climb at 250
> >> watts.
>
> >> Obviously, wind resistance is a lesser impact the slower you're
> >> going, so on steeper climbs, the tops have a lesser penalty. The
> >> Euro-pros tend to climb at a fairly brisk clip, expending a greater
> >> fraction of their power on wind resistance than you or I would on the
> >> same climb.
>
> >> Dan
>
> > Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
> > so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
> > position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
> > don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
> > hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
> > I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
> > hoods, they would.
>
> I recall reading somewhere that relatively recently (last 10
> years-ish?), the pros started riding wider bars because the ability to
> breath more easily/better was worth more what they may have lost in the
> way of aerodynamics. Might be something to that here as well, i.e., the
> tops require a narrower grip than the hoods.
>
> No science claimed, just thinkin' out loud. I'm still riding 40 cm
> bars.
>
> -S-
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Date: 03 Aug 2007 10:17:06
From: Tuschinski
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
On Aug 3, 4:34 am, "Steve Freides" <st...@fridayscomputer.com > wrote:
> "Scott" <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1186107244.402534.315260@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 6:51 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> > wrote:
> >> hizar...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> > I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
> >> > brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if
> >> > this
> >> > is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I
> >> > prefer
> >> > the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One
> >> > possible
> >> > advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind
> >> > resistance.
>
> >> Wind resistance is approximately (speed / 40 kph)^3, assuming you can
> >> ride @ 40 kph w/o rolling resistance at the same power on the flats.
> >> So if you're climbing @ 16 kph, this corresponds to (2/5)^3 = 8 / 125
> >> = 6.4% of your total power. If being on the hoods saves 5% of this,
> >> it's 0.3% of your total power, or 0.8 watts, if you climb at 250
> >> watts.
>
> >> Obviously, wind resistance is a lesser impact the slower you're
> >> going, so on steeper climbs, the tops have a lesser penalty. The
> >> Euro-pros tend to climb at a fairly brisk clip, expending a greater
> >> fraction of their power on wind resistance than you or I would on the
> >> same climb.
>
> >> Dan
>
> > Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
> > so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
> > position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
> > don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
> > hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
> > I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
> > hoods, they would.
>
> I recall reading somewhere that relatively recently (last 10
> years-ish?), the pros started riding wider bars because the ability to
> breath more easily/better was worth more what they may have lost in the
> way of aerodynamics.
Actually afaik that is debunked. A few inches doesn't hamper or ease
breathing. Something wich anyone who uses the tops for climbing can
agree with... you don't notice a lack of "breathing room"
The 42+ was pretty much standard on Cannondales and other American
bikes. Also, racers used to be smallish(still are) but now drops are
used by a wide range of tourists, measuring a lot more than the
average Pro^^
> Might be something to that here as well, i.e., the
> tops require a narrower grip than the hoods.
>
Nope, pure and simple aerodynamics. Another nice one: Aerodynamics
have more effect than weight on TdF cols. The speed of the pros and
the gradient make weight a much smaller factor. It's why the
Lightweight (German Brand) wheels are popular, light AND aerodynamic.
The big disadvantage is that high rims are pretty unforgiving. Using
them 6-7 hours is very uncomfortable, even for most pros.
It's also one of the reasons why drafting behind a teammate still is
important in the mountains.
> No science claimed, just thinkin' out loud. I'm still riding 40 cm
> bars.
>
> -S-- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Date: 04 Aug 2007 09:09:55
From: Kyle Legate
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
Tuschinski wrote:
>>
>> I recall reading somewhere that relatively recently (last 10
>> years-ish?), the pros started riding wider bars because the ability to
>> breath more easily/better was worth more what they may have lost in the
>> way of aerodynamics.
>
> Actually afaik that is debunked. A few inches doesn't hamper or ease
> breathing. Something wich anyone who uses the tops for climbing can
> agree with... you don't notice a lack of "breathing room"
>
Debunked? By whom? You're going to have to provide a cite for that.
Compressing your rib cage by reaching forward to grasp a narrow bar is
of course going to make it more difficult to draw a full breath. Why you
don't notice a lack of "breathing room" when you climb in the tops is
because your elbows are jutting outwards to mimic the grasping of a
wider bar. Notice your arm geometry next time you ride on your tops and
you'll see.
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Date: 03 Aug 2007 17:58:06
From: Dan Connelly
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
Tuschinski wrote:
> Nope, pure and simple aerodynamics. Another nice one: Aerodynamics
> have more effect than weight on TdF cols. The speed of the pros and
> the gradient make weight a much smaller factor. It's why the
> Lightweight (German Brand) wheels are popular, light AND aerodynamic.
> The big disadvantage is that high rims are pretty unforgiving. Using
> them 6-7 hours is very uncomfortable, even for most pros.
>
> It's also one of the reasons why drafting behind a teammate still is
> important in the mountains.
>
Wind resistance: 1/2 rho Cd A v^2, where rho ~ 1.1 kg/m^2, Cd A ~ 0.3 m^2
Mass-proportional force: M g (grade + Crr), where Crr is rolling resistance ( 0.6%, typical), M is total system mass (75 kg, typical), g is gravity (9.8 m/sec^2)
These are equal for:
v = sqrt [ 2 M g ( grade + Crr ) / (rho Cd A) ]
For example, a 7% grade: 19.3 mps = 69.5 kph
So if you can climb a 7% grade at 69.5 kph, then wind resistance is contributing as much as weight....
One issue with these wheels is due to the UCI limit, there's no advantage (except during some accelerations) to lighter wheels, since weight would need to be added somewhere else. That said, whether they are worthwhile depends on the relative advantages to wind resistance and weight; there's no magical grade at which weight becomes always more important.
Dan
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Date: 03 Aug 2007 20:06:16
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
Dans le message de news:46B36CAC.2070102@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m,
Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m > a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :
> Tuschinski wrote:
>
>> Nope, pure and simple aerodynamics. Another nice one: Aerodynamics
>> have more effect than weight on TdF cols. The speed of the pros and
>> the gradient make weight a much smaller factor. It's why the
>> Lightweight (German Brand) wheels are popular, light AND aerodynamic.
>> The big disadvantage is that high rims are pretty unforgiving. Using
>> them 6-7 hours is very uncomfortable, even for most pros.
>>
>> It's also one of the reasons why drafting behind a teammate still is
>> important in the mountains.
>>
>
> Wind resistance: 1/2 rho Cd A v^2, where rho ~ 1.1 kg/m^2, Cd A ~ 0.3
> m^2 Mass-proportional force: M g (grade + Crr), where Crr is rolling
> resistance ( 0.6%, typical), M is total system mass (75 kg, typical),
> g is gravity (9.8 m/sec^2)
> These are equal for:
>
> v = sqrt [ 2 M g ( grade + Crr ) / (rho Cd A) ]
>
> For example, a 7% grade: 19.3 mps = 69.5 kph
>
> So if you can climb a 7% grade at 69.5 kph, then wind resistance is
> contributing as much as weight....
You have to stop following me on my morning rides !! My computer rounds to
70/
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 21:14:28
From: Scott
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
On Aug 2, 8:48 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Scott" <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1186107244.402534.315260@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
> > so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
> > position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
> > don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
> > hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
> > I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
> > hoods, they would.
>
> I can add this - when the pack got really fast and I was near my limit I'd
> almost crawl under the paint. After a couple of weeks of those sorts of
> races I discovered that my flexibility had changed pretty dramatically and
> that I could ride on the drops as efficiently as on the tops.
>
> It wasn't too long after I quite racing that that ability disappeared never
> to return.
One of the smartest, most successful racers I've ever known/ridden
with/raced against used to ride in the drops ALL the time. I asked
him once why he did that. His response: I don't race on the tops,
why would I train there?
Scott
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 19:14:04
From: Scott
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
On Aug 2, 6:51 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m >
wrote:
> hizar...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
> > brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if this
> > is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I prefer
> > the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One possible
> > advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind resistance.
>
> Wind resistance is approximately (speed / 40 kph)^3, assuming you can ride @ 40 kph w/o rolling resistance at the same power on the flats. So if you're climbing @ 16 kph, this corresponds to (2/5)^3 = 8 / 125 = 6.4% of your total power. If being on the hoods saves 5% of this, it's 0.3% of your total power, or 0.8 watts, if you climb at 250 watts.
>
> Obviously, wind resistance is a lesser impact the slower you're going, so on steeper climbs, the tops have a lesser penalty. The Euro-pros tend to climb at a fairly brisk clip, expending a greater fraction of their power on wind resistance than you or I would on the same climb.
>
> Dan
Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
hoods, they would.
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Date: 03 Aug 2007 02:48:41
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
"Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1186107244.402534.315260@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
> so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
> position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
> don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
> hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
> I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
> hoods, they would.
I can add this - when the pack got really fast and I was near my limit I'd
almost crawl under the paint. After a couple of weeks of those sorts of
races I discovered that my flexibility had changed pretty dramatically and
that I could ride on the drops as efficiently as on the tops.
It wasn't too long after I quite racing that that ability disappeared never
to return.
|
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 22:34:55
From: Steve Freides
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
"Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1186107244.402534.315260@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 2, 6:51 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> wrote:
>> hizar...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
>> > brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if
>> > this
>> > is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I
>> > prefer
>> > the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One
>> > possible
>> > advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind
>> > resistance.
>>
>> Wind resistance is approximately (speed / 40 kph)^3, assuming you can
>> ride @ 40 kph w/o rolling resistance at the same power on the flats.
>> So if you're climbing @ 16 kph, this corresponds to (2/5)^3 = 8 / 125
>> = 6.4% of your total power. If being on the hoods saves 5% of this,
>> it's 0.3% of your total power, or 0.8 watts, if you climb at 250
>> watts.
>>
>> Obviously, wind resistance is a lesser impact the slower you're
>> going, so on steeper climbs, the tops have a lesser penalty. The
>> Euro-pros tend to climb at a fairly brisk clip, expending a greater
>> fraction of their power on wind resistance than you or I would on the
>> same climb.
>>
>> Dan
>
> Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
> so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
> position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
> don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
> hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
> I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
> hoods, they would.
I recall reading somewhere that relatively recently (last 10
years-ish?), the pros started riding wider bars because the ability to
breath more easily/better was worth more what they may have lost in the
way of aerodynamics. Might be something to that here as well, i.e., the
tops require a narrower grip than the hoods.
No science claimed, just thinkin' out loud. I'm still riding 40 cm
bars.
-S-
|
| | | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 11:30:02
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:34:55 -0400, "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com >
wrote:
>"Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1186107244.402534.315260@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 2, 6:51 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
>> wrote:
>>> hizar...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> > I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
>>> > brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if
>>> > this
>>> > is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I
>>> > prefer
>>> > the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One
>>> > possible
>>> > advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind
>>> > resistance.
>>>
>>> Wind resistance is approximately (speed / 40 kph)^3, assuming you can
>>> ride @ 40 kph w/o rolling resistance at the same power on the flats.
>>> So if you're climbing @ 16 kph, this corresponds to (2/5)^3 = 8 / 125
>>> = 6.4% of your total power. If being on the hoods saves 5% of this,
>>> it's 0.3% of your total power, or 0.8 watts, if you climb at 250
>>> watts.
>>>
>>> Obviously, wind resistance is a lesser impact the slower you're
>>> going, so on steeper climbs, the tops have a lesser penalty. The
>>> Euro-pros tend to climb at a fairly brisk clip, expending a greater
>>> fraction of their power on wind resistance than you or I would on the
>>> same climb.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>
>> Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
>> so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
>> position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
>> don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
>> hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
>> I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
>> hoods, they would.
>
>I recall reading somewhere that relatively recently (last 10
>years-ish?), the pros started riding wider bars because the ability to
>breath more easily/better was worth more what they may have lost in the
>way of aerodynamics. Might be something to that here as well, i.e., the
>tops require a narrower grip than the hoods.
>
>No science claimed, just thinkin' out loud. I'm still riding 40 cm
>bars.
Some of the pro's have an almost bizarre lack of upper body strength compared to
even a moderately fit sport level rider.* They may want the wider bar for more
support.
* Who do you suppose opens the pickle jar at the Rasmussen household
Ron
|
| | | | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 17:11:30
From: Steve Freides
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
|
"RonSonic" <ronsonic@tampabay.rr.com > wrote in message
news:2bi6b3loa7682f524uscfj9ith61nh6lc1@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:34:55 -0400, "Steve Freides"
> <steve@fridayscomputer.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:1186107244.402534.315260@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Aug 2, 6:51 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
>>> wrote:
>>>> hizar...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> > I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
>>>> > brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if
>>>> > this
>>>> > is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I
>>>> > prefer
>>>> > the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One
>>>> > possible
>>>> > advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind
>>>> > resistance.
>>>>
>>>> Wind resistance is approximately (speed / 40 kph)^3, assuming you can
>>>> ride @ 40 kph w/o rolling resistance at the same power on the flats.
>>>> So if you're climbing @ 16 kph, this corresponds to (2/5)^3 = 8 / 125
>>>> = 6.4% of your total power. If being on the hoods saves 5% of this,
>>>> it's 0.3% of your total power, or 0.8 watts, if you climb at 250
>>>> watts.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, wind resistance is a lesser impact the slower you're
>>>> going, so on steeper climbs, the tops have a lesser penalty. The
>>>> Euro-pros tend to climb at a fairly brisk clip, expending a greater
>>>> fraction of their power on wind resistance than you or I would on the
>>>> same climb.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>
>>> Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
>>> so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
>>> position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
>>> don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
>>> hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
>>> I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
>>> hoods, they would.
>>
>>I recall reading somewhere that relatively recently (last 10
>>years-ish?), the pros started riding wider bars because the ability to
>>breath more easily/better was worth more what they may have lost in the
>>way of aerodynamics. Might be something to that here as well, i.e., the
>>tops require a narrower grip than the hoods.
>>
>>No science claimed, just thinkin' out loud. I'm still riding 40 cm
>>bars.
>
> Some of the pro's have an almost bizarre lack of upper body strength
> compared to
> even a moderately fit sport level rider.* They may want the wider bar for
> more
> support.
>
> * Who do you suppose opens the pickle jar at the Rasmussen household
>
> Ron
Same is true for some runners. A Westerner went to live with the Ethopian
distance runners and wrote a book about their training. I remember him
mentioning that, despite their light weight, many couldn't even do a single
pullup and were otherwise just generally uninterested in upper body
strength.
-S-
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Date: 03 Aug 2007 00:51:12
From: Dan Connelly
Subject: Re: Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??
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hizark21@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
> brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if this
> is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I prefer
> the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One possible
> advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind resistance.
>
Wind resistance is approximately (speed / 40 kph)^3, assuming you can ride @ 40 kph w/o rolling resistance at the same power on the flats. So if you're climbing @ 16 kph, this corresponds to (2/5)^3 = 8 / 125 = 6.4% of your total power. If being on the hoods saves 5% of this, it's 0.3% of your total power, or 0.8 watts, if you climb at 250 watts.
Obviously, wind resistance is a lesser impact the slower you're going, so on steeper climbs, the tops have a lesser penalty. The Euro-pros tend to climb at a fairly brisk clip, expending a greater fraction of their power on wind resistance than you or I would on the same climb.
Dan
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