Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

bicycle-forum.net
Promoting biking discussion.

Main

Date: 09 Feb 2007 14:29:36
From: brian_j_roth@yahoo.com
Subject: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Good scoop by velonews

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11627.0.html

Date: 20 Feb 2007 10:44:10
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 20, 9:06 am, "hizar...@yahoo.com" <hizar...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I agree that there is problems with testing procedures and standards.
> The labs and the handlers need to certified. Dick Pound needs to go.
> But this does not change the fact that there has been EPO use.

Well, what can I say? Indeed, the proof of how completely bad the
testing is, is or maybe was the alleged ongoing EPO use that was not
detected by testing.

So right there, the whole operation needs to be shit-canned.

"We have found it impossible to keep up with the cheaters". That would
be a good cover statement <g >.

How is it that Armstong's alleged EPO stayed test-able for years while
ion Jones' faded away in only a few short weeks? Where was the
oversight (or testing controls, add'l samples) in the Armstrong case?

"The harm" is coming from the rules and the enforcement of them.

IOW, perhaps with the best of intentions ("a level playing field" ha
ha ha and "protecting the health of the athlete" again ha ha ha, but
let's give those points for purposes of discussion) rules have been
made that have turned out to be very bad rules because they cannot be
fairly enforced by simple testing. And now we're going to add DNA
profiling to the mix. There are what, six DNA labs in the USA under
review (or outright investigation for criminal activity) right now?

It's a problem without solution, absent 100% effective, reliable,
simple testing. So, how deep do you want that pile of bodies,
innocents included? --D-y

Date: 20 Feb 2007 07:06:41
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

I agree that there is problems with testing procedures and standards.
The labs and the handlers need to certified. Dick Pound needs to go.
But this does not change the fact that there has been EPO use.

On Feb 20, 6:39 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com > wrote:
> On Feb 20, 12:56 am, "hizar...@yahoo.com" <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Cycling needs to come to the realization that cheats are ruining the
> > sport. We have already seen major sponsors refrain from sponsorships
> > because of drugs. The time is now to implement a lifetime ban for a
> > first offense of drug use.
>
> Cycling needs to realize that bad rules and bad testing is ruining the
> sport.
>
> The "sponsor money/squeaky clean image" disease that Pound brought to
> the Olympics is spreading through the world of sport, and poor-cousin
> cycling took the big hits.
>
> If you know the guy next to you is cheating, and you know how he is
> doing it and getting away with it (the alleged mini-dose regimen with
> EPO, for example), where is the incentive to "play clean"?
>
> We were better off with omerta, once they got a handle on controlling
> EPO to stop the riders from killing themselves with it. Which is just
> an indication that using real doctors who know what they're doing is a
> lot ster than driving "preparation" underground. Orange juice
> (except for the needle stick). But only if you know how to use it. --
> D-y

Date: 20 Feb 2007 06:39:22
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 20, 12:56 am, "hizar...@yahoo.com" <hizar...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Cycling needs to come to the realization that cheats are ruining the
> sport. We have already seen major sponsors refrain from sponsorships
> because of drugs. The time is now to implement a lifetime ban for a
> first offense of drug use.

Cycling needs to realize that bad rules and bad testing is ruining the
sport.

The "sponsor money/squeaky clean image" disease that Pound brought to
the Olympics is spreading through the world of sport, and poor-cousin
cycling took the big hits.

If you know the guy next to you is cheating, and you know how he is
doing it and getting away with it (the alleged mini-dose regimen with
EPO, for example), where is the incentive to "play clean"?

We were better off with omerta, once they got a handle on controlling
EPO to stop the riders from killing themselves with it. Which is just
an indication that using real doctors who know what they're doing is a
lot ster than driving "preparation" underground. Orange juice
(except for the needle stick). But only if you know how to use it. --
D-y

Date: 19 Feb 2007 22:56:13
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

If there is a reason to drop Discovery spnsorship here it is:

"Today, we still don't have all documents to make the right decision.
Before we take a decision, we will wait on all aditional documents,"
Clerc told the press agency AFP."

For Discovery they need a good contender and Basso is it. Without him
and the spectra of controversy the PR value is greatly diminished.

Cycling needs to come to the realization that cheats are ruining the
sport. We have already seen major sponsors refrain from sponsorships
because of drugs. The time is now to implement a lifetime ban for a
first offense of drug use.

On Feb 9, 2:29 pm, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> Good scoop by velonews
>
> http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11627.0.html

Date: 19 Feb 2007 05:24:10
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 17, 7:44 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> news:90zBh.19517$ji1.17847@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
>
>
>
> > Interesting that you bring that up. I called my people at Trek on
> > Wednesday, asking where they stood on the whole thing. For all I knew,
> > they might have been looking for a way out, who knows? Turns out they're
> > actively working with team management to come up with a new title sponsor,
> > working the connections they have, seeing if there might be somebody who
> > knows the right person in the right place. Everything at Trek is focused
> > on the team continuing. Momentum alone probably accounts for part of that;
> > a fair amount of effort over the past 8 years has been focused on
> > delivering product for the team.
>
> Geez Mike, Trek went from having a nice vanilla bicycle in the early 90's to
> having what can only be described as the best in the field with a reputation
> even greater than that.

maybe biggest $ in field..Any other frame maker would disagree with no
real answer. Specilized, BMC, Scott, C-dale, Ridley, Colnago put name
of frame here.
>
> Going with US Postal was one of the more brilliant keting ploys for Trek.

No doubt about that.

Date: 24 Feb 2007 03:39:02
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

>> Geez Mike, Trek went from having a nice vanilla bicycle in the early 90's
>> to
>> having what can only be described as the best in the field with a
>> reputation
>> even greater than that.
>
> maybe biggest $ in field..Any other frame maker would disagree with no
> real answer. Specilized, BMC, Scott, C-dale, Ridley, Colnago put name
> of frame here.
>>
>> Going with US Postal was one of the more brilliant keting ploys for
>> Trek.
>
> No doubt about that.

And equally without question was the incredibly-bad decision US Postal made
to leave the team. People still think of them as "Postal." It was "branding"
to the max. Even if the requirements had been increased to $20 million, I
still think it would have been one of the best advertising deals going.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Date: 23 Feb 2007 21:55:13
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:qrODh.2453$re4.90@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...

>>> Going with US Postal was one of the more brilliant keting ploys for
>>> Trek.
>>
>> No doubt about that.
>
> And equally without question was the incredibly-bad decision US Postal
> made to leave the team. People still think of them as "Postal." It was
> "branding" to the max. Even if the requirements had been increased to $20
> million, I still think it would have been one of the best advertising
> deals going.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles

I think there's a residual value no matter what the situation, and I think
sponsors take that into account. Look at the Colts in the NFL. They moved
out of Baltimore 23 years ago and there was still hype over the Baltimore
vs.Indianapolis playoff game.

You can view it two ways: USPS factored in this residual effect in their
decision to cease sponsoring the team, or at this point the USPS is getting
something for nothing.

Date: 23 Feb 2007 21:28:37
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

In article <HGODh.28175$OY.26850@newsfe20.lga >, "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net>
wrote:

> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:qrODh.2453$re4.90@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...

> > And equally without question was the incredibly-bad decision US Postal
> > made to leave the team. People still think of them as "Postal." It was
> > "branding" to the max. Even if the requirements had been increased to $20
> > million, I still think it would have been one of the best advertising
> > deals going.

> I think there's a residual value no matter what the situation, and I think
> sponsors take that into account. Look at the Colts in the NFL. They moved
> out of Baltimore 23 years ago and there was still hype over the Baltimore
> vs.Indianapolis playoff game.
>
> You can view it two ways: USPS factored in this residual effect in their
> decision to cease sponsoring the team, or at this point the USPS is getting
> something for nothing.

I think they're getting something for nothing by now. I agree with Mike that people
still think of the team as "Postal" but I think that the longer LANCE is away from it
as a rider, the less that association will resonate.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Date: 16 Feb 2007 00:01:09
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 15, 7:46 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > You can't seem to seperate someone's political position from WHO
> > they are.
>
> If you think that bjw, Kveck, Asher or Russell are "someone" then you're
> really pushing the envelope.

I'm nobody in particular -
Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest ...
... For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.
http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/withgod.html

Sorry, got distracted there for a moment.
Kun-Kun, I've noticed that you are, well, a little
angry since you got back. I've disagreed with you
several times, and certainly poked fun at you over
that co Polo thing, but I haven't called you names,
other than maybe "dumbass" at worst. Others could
probably say the same. So what is it that provokes
a torrent of personal abuse from you?

I mean, I'm not hurt or anything. I've been called
worse names by better people. I'm just curious.
What purpose does visiting RBR have in your life
that is served by working yourself into a lather?
I might understand it if you got frustrated after
a weeks-long Usenet flamefest, but you went nuclear
the day you got back. It just doesn't seem healthy.
Is this some kind of primal scream therapy, where
you can't yell at people that disagree with you in
person so you take it out on Usenet? If so, I'm
happy that we can help keep your home and workplace
experience calm and safe. Here in RBR, we're just
a bunch of people that care about people, ya know?

Ben

Date: 17 Feb 2007 08:59:23
From: Kyle Legate
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
>
> Sorry, got distracted there for a moment.
> Kun-Kun, I've noticed that you are, well, a little
> angry since you got back. I've disagreed with you
> several times, and certainly poked fun at you over
> that co Polo thing, but I haven't called you names,
> other than maybe "dumbass" at worst. Others could
> probably say the same. So what is it that provokes
> a torrent of personal abuse from you?
>
It's bipolar disorder. It has to be. Mental illness is the only logical
conclusion.

Date: 16 Feb 2007 15:20:44
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:

> On Feb 15, 7:46 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> > You can't seem to seperate someone's political position from WHO
>> > they are.
>>
>> If you think that bjw, Kveck, Asher or Russell are "someone" then you're
>> really pushing the envelope.
>
> I'm nobody in particular -
> Oh my name it is nothin'
> My age it means less
> The country I come from
> Is called the Midwest ...
> ... For you don't count the dead
> When God's on your side.
> http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/withgod.html
>
> Sorry, got distracted there for a moment.
> Kun-Kun, I've noticed that you are, well, a little
> angry since you got back. I've disagreed with you
> several times, and certainly poked fun at you over
> that co Polo thing, but I haven't called you names,
> other than maybe "dumbass" at worst. Others could
> probably say the same. So what is it that provokes
> a torrent of personal abuse from you?
>
> I mean, I'm not hurt or anything. I've been called
> worse names by better people. I'm just curious.
> What purpose does visiting RBR have in your life
> that is served by working yourself into a lather?
> I might understand it if you got frustrated after
> a weeks-long Usenet flamefest, but you went nuclear
> the day you got back. It just doesn't seem healthy.
> Is this some kind of primal scream therapy, where
> you can't yell at people that disagree with you in
> person so you take it out on Usenet? If so, I'm
> happy that we can help keep your home and workplace
> experience calm and safe. Here in RBR, we're just
> a bunch of people that care about people, ya know?

Speak for yourself. I happen to be one of the leading ass-crack model
rehabilitation therapists on the West, or any, Coast. Ass-crack modeling,
while a critical part of the plumbing fashion industry, and therefore
Western Civilization itself (as everyone knows, improved sanitation and
plumbing is more important has saved more lives through the control of
diseases like cholera and typhus than antibiotics and viagra combined),
comes at a tremendous emotional cost. We're talking eating disorders,
PTSD, chafing, the list goes on and on. Untreated, ass-crack models are
like ticking time bombs of tension, that need to be defused before they
explode into conflict. That is where I come in. Without people like me,
you would see far more belltower shootings, far more cases of "American
Taliban," and far more clogged toilets of tension, exploding into conflict
as these poor troubled people act out their rage against the society that
has failed them. You might say it's a niche occupation, but without ass-
crack model rehabilitation therapists, there would be no ass-crack models,
without ass-crack models, well, nobody wants to think about that. Is the
National United Therapist Society for Ass-Crack Models obssessed with ass-
cracks? No. We're obsessed with saving people, helping them get over the
stigma that people like Kunich brand them with, and believe me, ass-crack
models have severe issues with being branded. So it is a little like Ben
says, only we get a ruder acronym than rbr.

--
Bill Asher

Date: 16 Feb 2007 10:51:06
From: Robert Chung
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> I've disagreed with you
> several times, and certainly poked fun at you over
> that co Polo thing

Dude, you're laughing now but wait 'til Kunich links to the pages that prove
that co Polo didn't just reach the North Pole: he reached the South,
East, and West Poles, too.

Date: 18 Feb 2007 03:29:21
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Robert Chung" <me@address.invalid > wrote in message
news:53ld45F1suh33U1@mid.individual.net...
> bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
>> I've disagreed with you
>> several times, and certainly poked fun at you over
>> that co Polo thing
>
> Dude, you're laughing now but wait 'til Kunich links to the pages that
> prove that co Polo didn't just reach the North Pole: he reached the
> South, East, and West Poles, too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2006/11/05/warm-refs.pdf;jsessionid=B5YSGXT0ZR1GXQFIQMFCFF4AVCBQYIV0

"In 1421 a Chinese Imperial Navy squadron sailed right round the Arctic and
found no ice anywhere."

As for co Polo, he lived almost 150 years before that. However, he wrote
that on a long voyage on a Chinese ship at one point the compass read
exactly opposite of a sight on the north star. That only occurs at one spot
in the world - north of the magnetic pole situated at that time somewhere in
Canada.

Date: 16 Feb 2007 10:29:21
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> Here in RBR, we're just a bunch of people that care about people, ya know?

We even care about the feelings of failed AI experiments.

Date: 16 Feb 2007 13:45:49
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Donald Munro wrote:
> bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
>> Here in RBR, we're just a bunch of people that care about people, ya know?
>
> We even care about the feelings of failed AI experiments.

Failed?

Bob Schwartz

Date: 17 Feb 2007 09:48:37
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
>>> Here in RBR, we're just a bunch of people that care about people, ya know?

Donald Munro wrote:
>> We even care about the feelings of failed AI experiments.

Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Failed?

Parents have trouble discerning the shortcomings of their progeny.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 16:28:27
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 15, 4:05 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1171572029.028994.149610@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Life's WAY too short to be bitter and pissed off all the time. If the
> > only thing that gets you off is the most cash in the least amount of
> > time, don't call me, I'll be riding or fishing with my kids.
>
> And wasn't me poking you because you're bitter and pissed off because you
> THINK that the military could have bought better armor even though you don't
> know anything about it?

Being pissed at the government and your friends for fucking over our
troops doesn't run my life. I'm not the one spouting a continuous
stream of hatred and garbage at just about everyone.
I'd like to be healthier, I'd like to have a little more money, but
that's not going to change my outlook. Life is pretty damned good
overall. Nothings ever perfect, and demanding it is hopeless.
Lots of great people here to talk with. Lot's of great people on
other groups and places I do things. Lots of time to do things with
family and friends. Good books to read and music to listen to.
It's pretty simple, enjoy what you have, and work to make things
better but never lose sight of what you have.
My life's pretty damned good. Most likely going to do a wilderness
fishing trip to a Canadian lodge to celebrate our 20th anniversary
which was last year. Wife likes the idea too. Life is good.
I have so much simple shit to be gateful and thankful for that it'd
be ridiculous to be unhappy.

> Did you notice that Steven was a pretty smooth character when he lived in
> the bay area, but after he moved up to Salt Lake he became the loud mouthed
> jerk? So, like, if he moved up there for the pay maybe it wasn't worth it?

Nope hadn't noticed. Still like Steven just fine. Can't think of
anyone here I really dislike, or need to spew the kind of crap you do
at. You can't seem to seperate someone's political position from WHO
they are.
Even you don't really matter because your just another foaming at the
mouth, hysteric, hate filled, BELIEVER who's impervious to actual
discussion. Lot's of those around here in the Valley. They thought
Lafferty was way too reasoned, willing to compromise, and not militant
enough.
They were right because Brian is incredibly reasonable compared to
them, or you. Just different sides of the coin.
Bill C

Date: 16 Feb 2007 02:46:28
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:1171585707.282857.150630@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> You can't seem to seperate someone's political position from WHO
> they are.

If you think that bjw, Kveck, Asher or Russell are "someone" then you're
really pushing the envelope.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 12:40:31
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 15, 10:58 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1171538941.456983.18260@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > It really is amazing, isn't it? Tom just can't grasp the concept.
> > There've been tons of stories of people, especially recently, of
> > people leaving major high paying careers to go do what they love. Lots
> > of them seem to be landing here.
>
> Yeah, I have a friend who was a Wall Street broker and who made his fortune
> and then decided to give something back to the community. Thanks to
> Clinton's dot-com bust he is now working a medium level job and worried
> about getting laid off or fired. He had to sell all his properties and evict
> his mother from the home he'd bought her and all.
>
> The moral of the story is that people who are lucky enough to land in a good
> job shouldn't be so quick to dump it and especially hesitant to burn their
> bridges behind them.
>
> > I think it's great, both for Steve and the shop, that Steve chose to
> > work at a shop part time.
>
> That's past tense. Steve is now up in Salt Lake City arguing on the internet
> because he no longer has a life.

Your definition of a "GOOD" job seems to be solely based on the
amount of cash generated. You and my old man would've gotten along
well.
Here's my definition of a "good job" and it does reflect my
priorities.:

Pays enough to cover what you really need without struggling too
much. If your significant other doesn't have health care, or you don't
have an SO, then it needs to include health care at a cost that leaves
you enough other money.
Safe, for the type of job, working conditions. Work you like or can
enjoy. Decent people and workplace attitude. If more than 40hrs./week
then not much more and voluntary. Time for family, friends, and other
activities. Pension plan is nice, but with the instability in jobs and
pensions you've really got to think about doing this yourself.
That's really about it.

Growing up farming and construction w/my old man was the worst, but
had great points too. I learned a shitload, learned what brutally hard
work is, and learned that, especially farming when your dirty, covered
in shit, smell terrible and are totally exhausted it just might have
been a fantastic day.
Up early, work with the animals, including feeding and caring for the
calves (love animals) is like seeing a bunch of friends. Play with the
dogs for a few minutes. Clean out the barn. Hand pump fuel into the
tractors. Spend the day in a nice warm sun riding up and down the
fields w/a small cooler of non-alcoholic beverages. Feed the animals
including throwing a bunch of hay bales. Maybe have to milk cows for
three hours, maybe not depending on who's around and who wants to do
what.
The point is that, while there was lots of hard work to be done the
schedule was flexible, almost all of it had good, enjoyable points,
and at the end of the day you could grab a quart of ice cold milk
right out of the bulk tank.
Worked at Kellog Brush as a mechanic. Did machine set-ups, repair,
and helped out the engineers in coming up with better stuff. Again
pretty dirty, pressure to make sure orders get done on time and
quality is met, but building good relationships with the machine
operators solved about half the "equipment" problems. Wander around,
do QCs, talk to people, fill in so the operators can grab an extra
break. Good job. Had a great party given by the Union head and the
operators at our local bar when I left.
The military is tons of stress and way too many hours when it's busy
and a piece of cake when it's not.
For putting up with it we got decent housing, medical care, a
reasonable wage to live on, travel, special events and discounts.
Chances to go to school, do sporting events, volunteer with the
theater group, at the library, and the gym. Fly all over, meet all
kinds of different people.
Great job except for the BS from the Pentagon and officers who want
to make it by kissing ass; Not doing the job.
Did a buch of temp labor shit at times as a fill in. Usually were
pretty good. Nobody expects much so if you have half a brain and
actually do some work things seem to go well. If it doesn't you move
on. It's temp so no big loss.
Now I'm working for myself and making about half, or less than I
could be. The other side is I get to work around the injuries, only
bid jobs that look decent, adjust my schedule to the kids and family.
Go to different places and do slightly different things.
Gotta love it.
I've been lucky to have learned a large similar skill set that has
always let me be able to find a job that paid at least something.
Guess IMO it's pretty simple. Most jobs are what you make them and
almost anything is better than hand shoveling or working a "mud
sucker" pump hose, in a trench for a water main break, up to your ass
in icy water in ch, or December.
Life's WAY too short to be bitter and pissed off all the time. If the
only thing that gets you off is the most cash in the least amount of
time, don't call me, I'll be riding or fishing with my kids.
Bill C

Date: 15 Feb 2007 21:11:01
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Bill C wrote:

<snip >
>
> Your definition of a "GOOD" job seems to be solely based on the
> amount of cash generated. You and my old man would've gotten along
> well.
> Here's my definition of a "good job" and it does reflect my
> priorities.:
>
> Pays enough to cover what you really need without struggling too
> much. If your significant other doesn't have health care, or you don't
> have an SO, then it needs to include health care at a cost that leaves
> you enough other money.
> Safe, for the type of job, working conditions. Work you like or can
> enjoy. Decent people and workplace attitude. If more than 40hrs./week
> then not much more and voluntary. Time for family, friends, and other
> activities. Pension plan is nice, but with the instability in jobs and
> pensions you've really got to think about doing this yourself.
> That's really about it.
>
<snip >

Scientific American had an article about this last month:

http://tinyurl.com/3y3bmw

That's not the full article, but at least you can find the reference.

--
Bill Asher

Date: 15 Feb 2007 21:05:25
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:1171572029.028994.149610@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
> Life's WAY too short to be bitter and pissed off all the time. If the
> only thing that gets you off is the most cash in the least amount of
> time, don't call me, I'll be riding or fishing with my kids.

And wasn't me poking you because you're bitter and pissed off because you
THINK that the military could have bought better armor even though you don't
know anything about it?

Did you notice that Steven was a pretty smooth character when he lived in
the bay area, but after he moved up to Salt Lake he became the loud mouthed
jerk? So, like, if he moved up there for the pay maybe it wasn't worth it?

Date: 15 Feb 2007 10:37:39
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 15, 9:31 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:

> And yet you imply that it was borrowing money that caused the dot-com bust
> and not a complete lack of any standards for allowing companies without any
> product nor sound strategy to go public.
>
> Sorry but the Clinton administration HAS to take responsibility for allowing
> such preposterous public offerings as "dog-walk.com" - a company whose
> business plan was to walk the dogs of busy executives.

Right, what we need is a stronger Federal government
with six layers of bureaucracy deciding which cronies'
preposterous dot-coms will be allowed to offer their
stock to the public. In Soviet Russia, dog walks YOU!

Nobody forced anyone to buy stock in dog-walk.com.
This argument is beginning to make me think Schwartz's
trolling algorithm is toying with us.

Ben

Date: 15 Feb 2007 09:30:33
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 15, 11:31 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171556878.158381.77360@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 15, 11:21 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >> <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1171555833.621149.52200@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On Feb 15, 10:58 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> >> > i like how you blame low interest rates and easy credit which fueled
> >> > the dot-com speculation on clinton.
>
> >> I see you're a real economist besides being politically aware.
>
> > there's only two ways to lose your shirt. if you borrow money you
> > can't pay back or you speculate.
>
> And yet you imply that it was borrowing money that caused the dot-com bust
> and not a complete lack of any standards for allowing companies without any
> product nor sound strategy to go public.

dumbass,

a high interest keeps people's greed in check. if interest rates were
dropped now the exact same thing would happen.

> Sorry but the Clinton administration HAS to take responsibility for allowing
> such preposterous public offerings as "dog-walk.com" - a company whose
> business plan was to walk the dogs of busy executives.

that's not illegal, unless they filed fraudulent reports.

it's the govt's job to prevent fraud, not to be there to baby stupid
people or stifle new businesses.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 19:46:11
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

<amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171560633.359842.280100@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 15, 11:31 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry but the Clinton administration HAS to take responsibility for
>> allowing
>> such preposterous public offerings as "dog-walk.com" - a company whose
>> business plan was to walk the dogs of busy executives.
>
> that's not illegal, unless they filed fraudulent reports.

BS, the public doesn't see behind the curtain. It's up to the government to
regulate public offerings so that there is really SOME value behind the
offering. 2/3rds of the dot-com companies had no intrinsic value and it
wasn't apparently to those buying stock.

> it's the govt's job to prevent fraud, not to be there to baby stupid
> people or stifle new businesses.

You mean like Enron?

Date: 15 Feb 2007 11:39:28
From: Joe Cipale
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

amit.ghosh@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 15, 11:31 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>><amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>news:1171556878.158381.77360@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>>On Feb 15, 11:21 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>>
>>>><amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>>news:1171555833.621149.52200@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>>On Feb 15, 10:58 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>i like how you blame low interest rates and easy credit which fueled
>>>>>the dot-com speculation on clinton.
>>
>>>>I see you're a real economist besides being politically aware.
>>
>>>there's only two ways to lose your shirt. if you borrow money you
>>>can't pay back or you speculate.
>>
>>And yet you imply that it was borrowing money that caused the dot-com bust
>>and not a complete lack of any standards for allowing companies without any
>>product nor sound strategy to go public.
>
>
> dumbass,
>
> a high interest keeps people's greed in check. if interest rates were
> dropped now the exact same thing would happen.
>
>
>>Sorry but the Clinton administration HAS to take responsibility for allowing
>>such preposterous public offerings as "dog-walk.com" - a company whose
>>business plan was to walk the dogs of busy executives.
>
>
> that's not illegal, unless they filed fraudulent reports.
>
> it's the govt's job to prevent fraud, not to be there to baby stupid
> people or stifle new businesses.
>

kunich will ALWAYS blame the govt for the misfortune that befalls those
who think like him. Otherwise 'they would not be temtped to exercise
such foolish actions if the govt hand not put the mechanism in place to
begin with...'.

tommy, do us all a favor and STFU. You really, really do expose your own
ignorance each and every time you post your christo-fascist-noecon
nonsense. In many ways, I feel sorry for you. Your antangonistic stance
towards so many things and so many people is not what many consider a
role model of Christianity. Or are you like the rest of the neo-right
so-called christians: Hypocrites in thought, action and heart. Only
seeing the good in those who think along your lines. Jim Jones had the
likes of sheeple like you pegged. The line for the koolaid forms to the
right, BTW.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 16:02:35
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

In article <er2d4a01as6@enews1.newsguy.com >, Joe Cipale <joec@aracnet.com> wrote:

> kunich will ALWAYS blame the govt for the misfortune that befalls those
> who think like him. Otherwise 'they would not be temtped to exercise
> such foolish actions if the govt hand not put the mechanism in place to
> begin with...'.

I need to offer a correction, Joe. Kunich will always blame a *Democratic* party
led govt. etc...

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Date: 15 Feb 2007 20:10:26
From: Joe Cipale
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Howard Kveck wrote:
> In article <er2d4a01as6@enews1.newsguy.com>, Joe Cipale <joec@aracnet.com> wrote:
>
>
>>kunich will ALWAYS blame the govt for the misfortune that befalls those
>>who think like him. Otherwise 'they would not be temtped to exercise
>>such foolish actions if the govt hand not put the mechanism in place to
>>begin with...'.
>
>
> I need to offer a correction, Joe. Kunich will always blame a *Democratic* party
> led govt. etc...
>

I stand corrected Howrd. You are correct.

May I add, kuntich will always blame a DEMOCRATIC Govt for any of his
problems. One has to wonder why it took his (ex) so long to figure out
what kind of an ass-hat he really was.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 19:51:28
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Joe Cipale" <joec@aracnet.com > wrote in message
news:er2d4a01as6@enews1.newsguy.com...
>
> tommy, do us all a favor and STFU.

For an ugly little fat guy you certainly talk big.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 22:50:11
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Joe Cipale wrote:
>> tommy, do us all a favor and STFU.

Tom Kunich wrote:
> For an ugly little fat guy you certainly talk big.

Buddha posts to rbr ?

Date: 15 Feb 2007 20:09:04
From: Joe Cipale
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Donald Munro wrote:
> Joe Cipale wrote:
>
>>>tommy, do us all a favor and STFU.
>
>
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>>For an ugly little fat guy you certainly talk big.
>
>
> Buddha posts to rbr ?
>

COmpared to the ignorant ass that responds to him.. yeah.

eunuch, yo aint breaking asweat over. Now.. back to my killfile, kuntich!

Date: 15 Feb 2007 20:25:01
From: Joe Cipale
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Joe Cipale wrote:
> Donald Munro wrote:
>
>> Joe Cipale wrote:
>>
>>>> tommy, do us all a favor and STFU.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>>> For an ugly little fat guy you certainly talk big.
>>
>>
>>
>> Buddha posts to rbr ?
>>
>
> COmpared to the ignorant ass that responds to him.. yeah.
>
> eunuch, yo aint breaking asweat over. Now.. back to my killfile, kuntich!

damn... I need to get off the cold meds- what Imeant to write was:
Kuntich, you aint worth breaking a sweat over. You are nothing more than
a tool. An ignorant, loudmouth tool. And if you are talking ugly, fat
and little, I suggest you step back away from the mirror. Self-pity does
not wear well on you. Your UGLY mind, LITTLE opinions and FAT mouth are
what get you into trouble.

Now, back into my killfile, kuntich.

Date: 16 Feb 2007 13:59:14
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Joe Cipale" <joec@aracnet.com > wrote in message
news:er3btn02h07@enews1.newsguy.com...
>
> damn... I need to get off the cold meds- what Imeant to write was:

"I'm a short fat little troll who hasn't the courage to face the people I
hate because they're tall and thin."

Date: 15 Feb 2007 08:27:58
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 15, 11:21 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171555833.621149.52200@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 15, 10:58 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > i like how you blame low interest rates and easy credit which fueled
> > the dot-com speculation on clinton.
>
> I see you're a real economist besides being politically aware.

dumbass,

there's only two ways to lose your shirt. if you borrow money you
can't pay back or you speculate.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 16:31:16
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

<amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171556878.158381.77360@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 15, 11:21 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1171555833.621149.52200@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Feb 15, 10:58 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>> > i like how you blame low interest rates and easy credit which fueled
>> > the dot-com speculation on clinton.
>>
>> I see you're a real economist besides being politically aware.
>
> there's only two ways to lose your shirt. if you borrow money you
> can't pay back or you speculate.

And yet you imply that it was borrowing money that caused the dot-com bust
and not a complete lack of any standards for allowing companies without any
product nor sound strategy to go public.

Sorry but the Clinton administration HAS to take responsibility for allowing
such preposterous public offerings as "dog-walk.com" - a company whose
business plan was to walk the dogs of busy executives.

Date: 24 Feb 2007 16:27:37
From: Fred Fredburger
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Tom Kunich wrote:

> Sorry but the Clinton administration HAS to take responsibility for allowing
> such preposterous public offerings as "dog-walk.com" - a company whose
> business plan was to walk the dogs of busy executives.

Eeek! And you claim to be Republican? Your pitch for goverment
regulation sounds more Communist. As if the government's role was to
stop those evil, stupid capitalists.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 12:26:57
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 16:31:16 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com >
wrote:

>And yet you imply that it was borrowing money that caused the dot-com bust
>and not a complete lack of any standards for allowing companies without any
>product nor sound strategy to go public.
>
>Sorry but the Clinton administration HAS to take responsibility for allowing
>such preposterous public offerings as "dog-walk.com" - a company whose
>business plan was to walk the dogs of busy executives.

Another random connection of the dots on your part. I think what he
said was if your sad sack friend hadn't overextended himself, his
losses would have fallen within the scope of those 'properties'
themselves.

Historically speaking, the collapse of the dog-walk.com companies was
the second wave - the Tilt sign came on from the over-investment in
infrastructure for a demand that never came. Interestingly, it was the
lowered prices that came from the bankruptcy sales of line capacity
that largely began the Internet 2.0 wave. I can remember T-1s dropping
by more than 50% during a three month negotiating period - which
started when our partial T-1 carrier went down the tubes and stopped
service with about one minute notice. The company I was at went from
an occasional and necessary user of the Internet to making it part of
their business practices - almost entirely due to the dot com crash
and an eventual T-1 plus external lines for less than a slow asynch
line before.

In any event, an administration can have an immediate impact on
interest rates, but it has damn little to do with whether or not a
fairly disclosed offering is allowed to go public. And the more
speculative and further from either big board or NASDAQ it is, the
less likely the review has anything to do with the administration. The
only time you hear of administration level officials getting involved
is (with rare exceptions) established ket impact corporations,
usually in mergers or major divestments.

I can still go public today with nothing more than a bad idea, a
decent investment banker to dot the i's and cross the t's, and fair
disclosure. The review isn't about whether the company will make money
- its about whether or not it fully complies with the registration
requirements of the 1933 act. As long as you fully disclose all
relationships and material weaknesses, the SEC is unlikely to stop it
(not a start up with no ket impact issues). They look at it, send
it back and tell you that this i or that t is not complete or needs
detail and they eventually procedurally approve the registration. You
deal with a staff accountant at the SEC and the highest review is, at
most, one level up.

Now the exchanges are a different manner. After the SEC passes on the
registration, if all you have is a bad idea, you probably are going to
end up on an exchange run out of an old lead assay office. But the
exchanges are NOT the administration.

And, yeah, this is something I've done. No make believe or pretend
associations. I don't still do it because it was a long period of time
with damn near no holidays and having to show up on the few I had on
five minutes notice to explain things to some guy at, say, Alex Brown
that made three or four times what I did. Then he would nod his head
and say it was a reasonable position. He'd get several hundred an hour
back then for showing up and I was on salary. Not worth the money.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 15 Feb 2007 08:10:33
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Date: 15 Feb 2007 16:21:19
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

<amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171555833.621149.52200@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 15, 10:58 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> i like how you blame low interest rates and easy credit which fueled
> the dot-com speculation on clinton.

I see you're a real economist besides being politically aware.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 07:38:36
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 15, 3:29 am, "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net > wrote:

>
> It really is amazing, isn't it? Tom just can't grasp the concept.

Dumbass -

Is he capable of grasping *any* new concept?

> There've been tons of stories of people, especially recently, of
> people leaving major high paying careers to go do what they love.

For whatever reason many people in this culture don't get the fact
that, in a relatively rich industrialized economy, wealth and
happiness are not at all correlative.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 06:10:35
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 9, 6:25 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> > Good scoop by velonews
>
> >http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11627.0.html
>
> You give too much credit to VeloNews in this case. A dealer on our dealer
> e-list spotted it on USA-Today.com and called up VeloNews, who hadn't heard
> anything about it yet.
>
> --Mike--
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com

Well Mike, you seem sometimes to have an inside line with the boys at
Trek, what is their 'plan', post Discovery? Will there be a resurgence
of another team, mostly Discovery boys, in another 'kit'. Or will
there be no 'America's' team for 2008?

Date: 17 Feb 2007 08:27:49
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

>> > Good scoop by velonews
>>
>> >http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11627.0.html
>>
>> You give too much credit to VeloNews in this case. A dealer on our dealer
>> e-list spotted it on USA-Today.com and called up VeloNews, who hadn't
>> heard
>> anything about it yet.
>>
>> --Mike--
>> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
>
> Well Mike, you seem sometimes to have an inside line with the boys at
> Trek, what is their 'plan', post Discovery? Will there be a resurgence
> of another team, mostly Discovery boys, in another 'kit'. Or will
> there be no 'America's' team for 2008?

Interesting that you bring that up. I called my people at Trek on Wednesday,
asking where they stood on the whole thing. For all I knew, they might have
been looking for a way out, who knows? Turns out they're actively working
with team management to come up with a new title sponsor, working the
connections they have, seeing if there might be somebody who knows the right
person in the right place. Everything at Trek is focused on the team
continuing. Momentum alone probably accounts for part of that; a fair amount
of effort over the past 8 years has been focused on delivering product for
the team.

I'm not really sure how all the corporate stuff plays out. We hear a lot
about how the drug issues have caused a lot of potential (and some existing)
players to drop out of the game, but I don't see that happening with
football or baseball, to other US sports that have had major drug issues
come up. But could be one of those "tipping point" sort of things.Since
cycling sponsorship is a rather iffy thing for a corporation to commit to
(something their stockholders aren't likely to see as worthwhile), it might
not take much for the person who makes the decision to think it's not worth
putting his/her reputation on the line to suggest cycling as a promotional
venue.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Date: 17 Feb 2007 14:44:01
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:90zBh.19517$ji1.17847@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
>
> Interesting that you bring that up. I called my people at Trek on
> Wednesday, asking where they stood on the whole thing. For all I knew,
> they might have been looking for a way out, who knows? Turns out they're
> actively working with team management to come up with a new title sponsor,
> working the connections they have, seeing if there might be somebody who
> knows the right person in the right place. Everything at Trek is focused
> on the team continuing. Momentum alone probably accounts for part of that;
> a fair amount of effort over the past 8 years has been focused on
> delivering product for the team.

Geez Mike, Trek went from having a nice vanilla bicycle in the early 90's to
having what can only be described as the best in the field with a reputation
even greater than that.

Going with US Postal was one of the more brilliant keting ploys for Trek.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 05:30:21
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 15, 5:29 am, "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net > wrote:

(I noted):
> > r.b.r'.s Lord of the Flies has spoken (again).

> It really is amazing, isn't it?

Not any more, Bill <g >

> Tom just can't grasp the concept.

TK doesn't get *anything*. Not really.

I like the insurance co. commercial where one guy is buying a sports
car restoration biz to enjoy his retirement from another guy so *he*
can enjoy *his* retirement.

Kinda says it all, right there. --D-y

Date: 15 Feb 2007 03:29:01
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 14, 11:27 pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com >
wrote:
> On Feb 14, 8:50 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > "Steven L. Sheffield" <stev...@veloworks.com> wrote in messagenews:C1F90052.5B73E%stevens@veloworks.com...
>
> > > On 2/14/07 7:27 AM, in article
>
> > > I worked at A Bicycle Odyssey because I loved being around bikes, and Tony
> > > Tom is/was a great boss, from whom I learned a great deal.
>
> > > If I was still in the Bay Area, I'd still work for Tony, just for the
> > > knowledge, no matter how much money I was making elsewhere.
>
> > And yet you still have your head up your ass.
>
> r.b.r'.s Lord of the Flies has spoken (again).
>
> Wiggle your ears so we can see you smile, TK! --D-y

It really is amazing, isn't it? Tom just can't grasp the concept.
There've been tons of stories of people, especially recently, of
people leaving major high paying careers to go do what they love. Lots
of them seem to be landing here.
That's one of the really cool things here is that we've got llama
farmers who used to be brokers, bed and breakfast owners who were IBM,
and on and on. Lots of people moving out of the stress filled
corporate world and finding a niche in the seriously odd little valley
here. There've got to be at least a dozen I know of that have bought
small old farms and gone into organic ket gardening.
It's a great thing to have these people around who are happy, and
committed to doing what they love.
Solid products and great people to deal with because they aren't
bitter and pissed off at the boss.
I think it's great, both for Steve and the shop, that Steve chose to
work at a shop part time.
Bill C

Date: 20 Feb 2007 10:52:19
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 18, 2:35 pm, Curtis L. Russell <cur...@md-bicycling.org > wrote:
> On 16 Feb 2007 15:25:07 -0800, "SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwh...@ti.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I thought they taught us in skool that the FED had the most control
> >over the interest rate, and mostly through OMO these days. The FED is
> >independent of the Congress and the Executive, by design.
>
> The Federal Reserve sets the reserve rate, but that is only one piece
> of the interest rate 'pie'.

As I understand it, they basically do 3 things: set the reserve
_ratio_ requirement, set the discount _rate_, and do OMO. OMO is the
dominant method of the three.

For example, when the FED sells gov securities on the open ket, it
takes money out of circulation. The supply of money is then lower,
effectively increasing the "cost of money," or what is called the
"interest rate." So things like the Federal Funds Rate and the Prime
Rate would then go up. (These are not economy-wide explicit rates,
but instead mean estimations.) The effect on these interest rates by
FED action is about as direct as is possible for a central bank.

> Administrative policy can impact the rates
> you and I pay in a heart beat - an announcement on ket policies
> today can start changes with the interbank rate that evening.

What do you mean by "Administrative policy?" Do you mean fiscal
policy? What "ket policy" does Congress and the Executive set? If
you could explain the mechanics of whatever you mean, that would be
good.

Date: 20 Feb 2007 14:35:52
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On 20 Feb 2007 10:52:19 -0800, "SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwhite@ti.com >
wrote:

>
>What do you mean by "Administrative policy?" Do you mean fiscal
>policy? What "ket policy" does Congress and the Executive set? If
>you could explain the mechanics of whatever you mean, that would be
>good.

I meant administration, not administrative, but anyway, any policy set
that impacts a major set of financial players and how they do
business, either settlement banks or secondary and tertiary players in
the loan or refinance area, can have an immediate impact on what the
money center banks and the next level down do with cash. All you have
to do is introduce enough uncertainty and the overnight rates will go
up.

What they do with cash impacts how much is available to maintain Fed
gins elsewhere, sometimes for quite a while, which means that most
of the rest are paying higher repurchase agreement rates. There was a
time when the impact of repos on the rest of the interest rate ket
was large - late 70s, early 80s come to mind, because the overnight
repos were where a lot of savings institutions were living and dying,
long term, mostly dying. If you lose gin and you can reprice
something else, you do, so it works it way outside to other areas.

Is it as permanent as setting the reserve rate? Not usually - maybe
never, but it can be significant over the short haul. Have a minor
event that coincides with settlements and payrolls just when a major
player is on the edge and needing money and it makes the WSJ the next
day...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 15 Feb 2007 15:58:24
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:1171538941.456983.18260@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> It really is amazing, isn't it? Tom just can't grasp the concept.
> There've been tons of stories of people, especially recently, of
> people leaving major high paying careers to go do what they love. Lots
> of them seem to be landing here.

Yeah, I have a friend who was a Wall Street broker and who made his fortune
and then decided to give something back to the community. Thanks to
Clinton's dot-com bust he is now working a medium level job and worried
about getting laid off or fired. He had to sell all his properties and evict
his mother from the home he'd bought her and all.

The moral of the story is that people who are lucky enough to land in a good
job shouldn't be so quick to dump it and especially hesitant to burn their
bridges behind them.

> I think it's great, both for Steve and the shop, that Steve chose to
> work at a shop part time.

That's past tense. Steve is now up in Salt Lake City arguing on the internet
because he no longer has a life.

Date: 20 Feb 2007 19:03:25
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 20, 11:35 am, Curtis L. Russell <cur...@md-bicycling.org >
wrote:
> On 20 Feb 2007 10:52:19 -0800, "SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwh...@ti.com>
> wrote:
>
> >What do you mean by "Administrative policy?" Do you mean fiscal
> >policy? What "ket policy" does Congress and the Executive set? If
> >you could explain the mechanics of whatever you mean, that would be
> >good.
>
> ... any policy set
> that impacts a major set of financial players...

Fiscal policy affects everyone (even people not yet born, lol).

> and how they do
> business, either settlement banks or secondary and tertiary players in
> the loan or refinance area, can have an immediate impact on what the
> money center banks and the next level down do with cash. All you have
> to do is introduce enough uncertainty and the overnight rates will go
> up.

Hmmm... I'm not so sure about "uncertainty and overnight rates."
When, for example, the guvmint says it will pass a fiscal stimulus
package, there is always uncertainty about particulars, but it is not
exactly a surprise. Moreover, it is not necessarily implemented on a
continuous basis as the Fed can do with OMO.

If the fiscal policy borrows, for example, and then crowds out private
activity, then I can see how the interest rate would rise (I think I
said that already). But I'm really wondering about the "immediacy"
thing. After all, one of the basic complaints about fiscal policy is
its time lags.

For example, after 911, there was about a 5-month lag for the
compromise "stimulus" package to be passed by Congress and signed by
the Executive. And only after that do we consider the ensuing
operational lag.

> What they do with cash impacts how much is available to maintain Fed
> gins elsewhere, ...

I do not understand what this means. The Fed is independent. It can,
in effect, create and destroy money at will, whenever it wants. That,
to me, seems a lot more immediate and able to affect the overnight
rates in real-time than fiscal policy.

> Is it as permanent as setting the reserve rate?

The main weapon of the Fed is OMO, not setting the reserve
requirements.

"Open ket operations--purchases and sales of U.S. Treasury and
federal agency securities--are the Federal Reserve's principal tool
for implementing monetary policy." http://www.federalreserve.gov/fomc/fundsrate.htm

> Not usually - maybe never, but it can
> be significant over the short haul.

Well nothing in this regard is "permanent" in the long run. Money is
said to be neutral in the long run. (I have some problems with the
neutrality statement, but that is another thing.)

Date: 21 Feb 2007 08:41:33
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On 20 Feb 2007 19:03:25 -0800, "SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwhite@ti.com >
wrote:

>If the fiscal policy borrows, for example, and then crowds out private
>activity, then I can see how the interest rate would rise (I think I
>said that already). But I'm really wondering about the "immediacy"
>thing. After all, one of the basic complaints about fiscal policy is
>its time lags.

The effect is immediate in overnights (well, can be). There are
certain constants, like making reserve gins and payrolls
semimonthly and biweekly (which is in effect weekly). And there are
adjustments to announcements as the central banks decide how much they
will retain over their current. The impact is quick enough that the
rates have doubled in the period of an hour when the bidding for short
money starts (its also why IMO two of the three money guys on the
Paribus desk that I worked with committed suicide - and that was over
less than 18 months, but they were some nasty months in the 70s). If
the money center banks semipermanently take money off by adding a tick
on their reserve amounts, it can keep O/N higher for awhile.

Of course, it isn't just the administration.Have a huge reinsurance
group or secondary loan maker announce that they aren't releasing
financials on time as they make corrections. The Freddie Mac/Fannie
Mae crap had to be nasty when they made their announcements. Everyone
starts sitting down and figuring whether they now have excess loans
that won't be laid off to the normal loan buyers and whether they can
make their current commitments over the next few weeks and whether or
not they need to go long or short or just cut their wrists and get it
over with. The guys that deal in specific loan tranches start
calculating when the shortage will hit their groups. Rings in the
water...

Miss that stuff in a very, very perverse sort of way.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 15 Feb 2007 11:38:52
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:58:24 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com >
wrote:

>Yeah, I have a friend who was a Wall Street broker and who made his fortune
>and then decided to give something back to the community. Thanks to
>Clinton's dot-com bust he is now working a medium level job and worried
>about getting laid off or fired. He had to sell all his properties and evict
>his mother from the home he'd bought her and all.
>
>The moral of the story is that people who are lucky enough to land in a good
>job shouldn't be so quick to dump it and especially hesitant to burn their
>bridges behind them.

Based on your replies to ma and others, I thought the moral of the
story was that he was a loser to end up with a medium level job and no
'properties'. I assume, again based on your prior replies, that you
meant to say 'former friend'.

Or do you only dump them when they get jobs in bike shops?

Cripes, are your priorities screwed up. But then, that would figure,
wouldn't it?

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 15 Feb 2007 19:47:40
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Curtis L. Russell" <curtis@md-bicycling.org > wrote in message
news:ka29t2552e1eulkneevje8vh6q2jlvkicv@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:58:24 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com>
> wrote:
>
>>Yeah, I have a friend who was a Wall Street broker and who made his
>>fortune
>>and then decided to give something back to the community. Thanks to
>>Clinton's dot-com bust he is now working a medium level job and worried
>>about getting laid off or fired. He had to sell all his properties and
>>evict
>>his mother from the home he'd bought her and all.
>>
>>The moral of the story is that people who are lucky enough to land in a
>>good
>>job shouldn't be so quick to dump it and especially hesitant to burn their
>>bridges behind them.
>
> Based on your replies to ma and others, I thought the moral of the
> story was that he was a loser to end up with a medium level job and no
> 'properties'. I assume, again based on your prior replies, that you
> meant to say 'former friend'.
>
> Or do you only dump them when they get jobs in bike shops?
>
> Cripes, are your priorities screwed up. But then, that would figure,
> wouldn't it?

Do you suppose that anything a recumbent rider would say could be taken
seriously?

Date: 15 Feb 2007 15:39:47
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:47:40 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com >
wrote:

>Do you suppose that anything a recumbent rider would say could be taken
>seriously?

Wow, considering its the Keunich, I'm impressed. OK, I laughed a
little bit, but it did bring back memories from 50 years ago.

Anyway, I can do this.

So's your old man. And your mother wears combat boots.

OK, your turn.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 14 Feb 2007 20:27:52
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 14, 8:50 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Steven L. Sheffield" <stev...@veloworks.com> wrote in messagenews:C1F90052.5B73E%stevens@veloworks.com...
>
> > On 2/14/07 7:27 AM, in article
>
> > I worked at A Bicycle Odyssey because I loved being around bikes, and Tony
> > Tom is/was a great boss, from whom I learned a great deal.
>
> > If I was still in the Bay Area, I'd still work for Tony, just for the
> > knowledge, no matter how much money I was making elsewhere.
>
> And yet you still have your head up your ass.

r.b.r'.s Lord of the Flies has spoken (again).

Wiggle your ears so we can see you smile, TK! --D-y

Date: 14 Feb 2007 07:15:21
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 14, 9:27 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:

> Touch a nerve there little man? Funny that when you were on the "management
> team" in San Francisco that you still worked in a bike shop to make some
> money.

dumbass,

ron artest tried to get a job a circuit city so that he could get a
discount.

Date: 14 Feb 2007 23:14:58
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

<amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171466113.732997.325460@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 14, 9:27 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> Touch a nerve there little man? Funny that when you were on the
>> "management
>> team" in San Francisco that you still worked in a bike shop to make some
>> money.
>
> ron artest tried to get a job a circuit city so that he could get a
> discount.

So you're telling me that Steven is really a multimillionaire who was only
trying to get an employee discount on a Torelli?

Date: 14 Feb 2007 18:12:58
From: Steven L. Sheffield
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On 2/14/07 4:14 PM, in article
SJMAh.2210$tD2.562@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Tom Kunich"
<cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:

> <amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1171466113.732997.325460@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 14, 9:27 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>>> Touch a nerve there little man? Funny that when you were on the
>>> "management
>>> team" in San Francisco that you still worked in a bike shop to make some
>>> money.
>>
>> ron artest tried to get a job a circuit city so that he could get a
>> discount.
>
> So you're telling me that Steven is really a multimillionaire who was only
> trying to get an employee discount on a Torelli?

Ron Cooper, actually ... And sometimes jobs aren't about money, they're
about passion, and about doing something you love.

Too bad you'll never experience that feeling.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

Date: 15 Feb 2007 02:49:51
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com > wrote in message
news:C1F901AA.5B743%stevens@veloworks.com...
>
> Ron Cooper, actually ... And sometimes jobs aren't about money, they're
> about passion, and about doing something you love.

Yeah, like you have a love of anything at all. We've noticed your passion
about bicycle racing ever since you first started posting here.

Date: 13 Feb 2007 11:45:16
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 12, 3:49 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
(repeating in all good fun):

> Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> You can't expect too much from a retired old asscrack model.

(dustoyev...@mac.com wrote):
> > Alone with the housewives. It was great.
>
> > Expect too much? Would you like to compare correct word form usage, on
> > a per-post basis, TK? You know-- affect/effect, and so forth?
>
> > How about spelling?

(now DM):

> He hasn't accused you of being gay yet, which means you've still got to
> work a little harder at disagreeing with him in order to make it with
> the rest of us on the renowned Kunich gaylist.

I was, at one time, and guessing, of course since I haven't been over
to his house to actually *see* the list, at or very near the top.

Evidence (From a thread entitled "Tom Kunich is an Ass"):

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/5d72b6f7ab58bdc/44d45198be3dc78f?lnk=gst&q=dustoyevsky+sex+park+men&rnum=1#44d45198be3dc78f

Yes, he did say something close to: "I should call the Austin police
on you" for an assertion (made earlier) regarding sexual mores that he
had a hard time swallowing.

He doesn't call the police on just *anyone*, you know!

Keep smilin'. --D-y

Date: 12 Feb 2007 05:47:25
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 11, 4:48 pm, "Andy B." <watt...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> > (Andy B replied):
> >> Of course it's the union's fault - I mean heck, Toyota has the highest
> >> paid
> >> blue collar force in the country and look at how crappy their profits
> >> are.

(I replied):
> > That's a de facto comparison of good and bad leadership. See, the top
> > dogs don't all perform anywhere near close!

(Struggling for a comeback):
> Wow, you catch on really fast.

If you don't have anything "good" to say, don't say anything. --D-y

Date: 11 Feb 2007 19:35:43
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 9, 4:09 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171060176.857841.117330@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I am really not surprised at all that Discovery is dropping the team.
Lance is a very hard act to follow. There is no rider who will come
close to matching Lance. Teams come and go after time it's the nature
of cycling. If Discovery can pull off a big win this year then they
probably will be able to find another sponsor. But let's remember that
even Merckx was forced leave a team because they could not find a
sponsor. But the real risk is for the Trek Stores who have put all
their eggs in one basket. Without the team things will be very
interesting.

> > Good scoop by velonews
>

> >http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11627.0.html
>
> Discovery is going through financial problems and it is handy to blame the
> CEO.
>
> Check our Versus (ex-OLN) who can't even give us a schedule of the spring
> classics. I assume that they don't have enough money to cover them and
> during Paris-Roubaix they'll be playing re-runs of the Lumberjack Log
> Rolling Championships.
>
> Bill Stapleton is a pretty sharp cookie and I'm betting that he'll have
> another boffo sponsor on the string soon.
>
> Ain't it time that Genetech sponsored a team? That would certainly be good
> for a lot doping charges.

Date: 11 Feb 2007 14:41:27
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 11, 9:16 am, "Andy B." <watt...@hotmail.com > wrote:
(I wrote):

> > Ford and GM are foundering because of *the workers*? Or, better yet,
> > the unions?

(Andy B replied):
> Of course it's the union's fault - I mean heck, Toyota has the highest paid
> blue collar force in the country and look at how crappy their profits are.

That's a de facto comparison of good and bad leadership. See, the top
dogs don't all perform anywhere near close!

OK, make sure the "send" button isn't in your mail program again. IOW,
don't just shut your eyes and hit Enter, hoping for the electrons to
know where they're supposed to go.

Good luck! --D-y

Date: 11 Feb 2007 17:48:20
From: Andy B.
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

<dustoyevsky@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1171233687.885732.111400@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 11, 9:16 am, "Andy B." <watt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> (I wrote):
>
>> > Ford and GM are foundering because of *the workers*? Or, better yet,
>> > the unions?
>
> (Andy B replied):
>> Of course it's the union's fault - I mean heck, Toyota has the highest
>> paid
>> blue collar force in the country and look at how crappy their profits
>> are.
>
> That's a de facto comparison of good and bad leadership. See, the top
> dogs don't all perform anywhere near close!

Wow, you catch on really fast.

-Andy B.

Date: 11 Feb 2007 14:32:39
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 11, 9:14 am, "Andy B." <watt...@hotmail.com > wrote:

> FYI, I always intended it to go to the group, I just hit the wrong button.

Yeah, twice you hit the wrong button.

> Oh, I mean, thank you oh wize one, without your guidance, my trashy e-mail
> would have never made it.

You and Kunich. "Wise" is spelled with an "s". I know, it gets
confusing when you try to go just by sound. English is tough that way.
You'll get it.

> I love you.

I'm long since spoken for. So the "ta" in your email addy-- is that
your mom? --D-y

Date: 11 Feb 2007 17:46:36
From: Andy B.
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

<dustoyevsky@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1171233159.853672.123810@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 11, 9:14 am, "Andy B." <watt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm long since spoken for. So the "ta" in your email addy-- is that
> your mom? --D-y

My beard. Good luck,

-Andy B.

Date: 11 Feb 2007 14:27:05
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 11, 12:09 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:

> You can't expect too much from a retired old asscrack model.

Alone with the housewives. It was great.

Expect too much? Would you like to compare correct word form usage, on
a per-post basis, TK? You know-- affect/effect, and so forth?

How about spelling? --D-y

Date: 12 Feb 2007 11:49:16
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Tom Kunich wrote:
>> You can't expect too much from a retired old asscrack model.

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
> Alone with the housewives. It was great.
>
> Expect too much? Would you like to compare correct word form usage, on
> a per-post basis, TK? You know-- affect/effect, and so forth?
>
> How about spelling? --D-y

He hasn't accused you of being gay yet, which means you've still got to
work a little harder at disagreeing with him in order to make it with
the rest of us on the renowned Kunich gaylist.

Date: 12 Feb 2007 11:07:17
From: Joe Cipale
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Donald Munro wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>>>You can't expect too much from a retired old asscrack model.
>
>
> dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
>
>>Alone with the housewives. It was great.
>>
>>Expect too much? Would you like to compare correct word form usage, on
>>a per-post basis, TK? You know-- affect/effect, and so forth?
>>
>>How about spelling? --D-y
>
>
> He hasn't accused you of being gay yet, which means you've still got to
> work a little harder at disagreeing with him in order to make it with
> the rest of us on the renowned Kunich gaylist.
>

The only thing 'gayer' than being accused of being gay ios kunich's gay
list. Me thinks he needs to work on his gadar a bit. Perhaps by looking
in the mirror.

Date: 11 Feb 2007 14:00:37
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 11, 7:52 am, "Andy B." <watt...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171133348.390782.272850@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 9, 6:09 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> >> Discovery is going through financial problems and it is handy to blame
> >> the
> >> CEO.
> > Corporate America, what a wonderful place for those who don't even
> > have to perform to grab a handle off the top. --D-y
>
> No no no, you've got it all wrong. The top jobs are held by the ones who
> perform them best - that's why they have the high salaries and you don't.
>

High salary doesn't necessarily imply high performance.

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_42/b3703102.htm
http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/20/05ceoland.html
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/kool_aid.jpg

Ben

Date: 11 Feb 2007 23:29:40
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> High salary doesn't necessarily imply high performance.
>
> http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_42/b3703102.htm
> http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/20/05ceoland.html
> http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/kool_aid.jpg

Or vice versa.
http://www.dronkert.net/

--
E. Dronkert

Date: 11 Feb 2007 23:34:58
From: ST
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On 2/11/07 2:29 PM, in article 45cf98dd$0$338$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl,
"Ewoud Dronkert" <firstname@lastname.net.invalid > wrote:

> bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
>> High salary doesn't necessarily imply high performance.
>>
>> http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_42/b3703102.htm
>> http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/20/05ceoland.html
>> http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/kool_aid.jpg
>
> Or vice versa.
> http://www.dronkert.net/
>

You would get more hits if it was drunkert.net

Date: 11 Feb 2007 07:05:11
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 11, 8:52 am, "Andy B." <watt...@hotmail.com > wrote:
(I wrote):

> > Corporate America, what a wonderful place for those who don't even
> > have to perform to grab a handle off the top. --D-y

("-Andy B." replied):
> No no no, you've got it all wrong. The top jobs are held by the ones who
> perform them best - that's why they have the high salaries and you don't.

Good boy!!!! (pats on flat little head)

You took it to the group, as I told you to do so in a reply to your
trashy email.

Saw another one in the box from "andy and ta" this a.m. Bounced
Unopened, as will be done henceforth.

The idea that there is a meritocracy operating, and in a "free
ket", yet? If you really want to believe that, let me ask: "Have
they stolen *your* pension yet?"

Ford and GM are foundering because of *the workers*? Or, better yet,
the unions?

If making inferior products, and the above are making inferior
products by rental car sample, who is making this "lifestyle choice"?

Enron. --D-y

Date: 11 Feb 2007 10:16:47
From: Andy B.
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

<dustoyevsky@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1171206311.097147.53390@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 11, 8:52 am, "Andy B." <watt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> (I wrote):
>
> Ford and GM are foundering because of *the workers*? Or, better yet,
> the unions?
>

Of course it's the union's fault - I mean heck, Toyota has the highest paid
blue collar force in the country and look at how crappy their profits are.

-Andy B.

Date: 11 Feb 2007 10:14:15
From: Andy B.
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

<dustoyevsky@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1171206311.097147.53390@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 11, 8:52 am, "Andy B." <watt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> (I wrote):
>
> You took it to the group, as I told you to do so in a reply to your
> trashy email.
>

FYI, I always intended it to go to the group, I just hit the wrong button.
Oh, I mean, thank you oh wize one, without your guidance, my trashy e-mail
would have never made it. I love you.

-Andy B.

Date: 11 Feb 2007 18:09:27
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Andy B." <wattact@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:LbSdnSsCBeNar1LYnZ2dnUVZ_uejnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> <dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:1171206311.097147.53390@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 11, 8:52 am, "Andy B." <watt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> (I wrote):
>>
>> You took it to the group, as I told you to do so in a reply to your
>> trashy email.
>>
>
> FYI, I always intended it to go to the group, I just hit the wrong button.
> Oh, I mean, thank you oh wize one, without your guidance, my trashy e-mail
> would have never made it. I love you.

You can't expect too much from a retired old asscrack model.

Date: 10 Feb 2007 10:49:08
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 9, 6:09 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:

> Discovery is going through financial problems and it is handy to blame the
> CEO.

It's the liberals again, TK.

When the ship hits an iceberg, the coal-shovelers are at fault. Is
that what you're saying? Well, if they'd just fire enough of those
schmucks, kick them right out without even letting them grab their
personals, that would've fixed things, right?

I wonder how many millions in severance and guaranteed-contract money
he got to tide him over between Disco and the next high-buck boss gig.

Corporate America, what a wonderful place for those who don't even
have to perform to grab a handle off the top. --D-y

Date: 11 Feb 2007 09:52:48
From: Andy B.
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

<dustoyevsky@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1171133348.390782.272850@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 9, 6:09 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> Discovery is going through financial problems and it is handy to blame
>> the
>> CEO.
> Corporate America, what a wonderful place for those who don't even
> have to perform to grab a handle off the top. --D-y
>

No no no, you've got it all wrong. The top jobs are held by the ones who
perform them best - that's why they have the high salaries and you don't.

-Andy B.

Date: 09 Feb 2007 18:22:26
From: steephill
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 9, 5:25 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> > Good scoop by velonews
>
> >http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11627.0.html
>
> You give too much credit to VeloNews in this case. A dealer on our dealer
> e-list spotted it on USA-Today.com and called up VeloNews, who hadn't heard
> anything about it yet.
>
> --Mike--
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com

"Good scoop by Velonews": I don't think it can be called a scoop when
a major national newspaper is the source. ;)

Steve
www.steephill.tv bike travelogue

Date: 10 Feb 2007 01:25:43
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

> Good scoop by velonews
>
> http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11627.0.html

You give too much credit to VeloNews in this case. A dealer on our dealer
e-list spotted it on USA-Today.com and called up VeloNews, who hadn't heard
anything about it yet.

--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com

Date: 09 Feb 2007 17:27:43
From: Joe Cipale
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>Good scoop by velonews
>>
>>http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11627.0.html
>
>
> You give too much credit to VeloNews in this case. A dealer on our dealer
> e-list spotted it on USA-Today.com and called up VeloNews, who hadn't heard
> anything about it yet.
>
> --Mike--
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
>
>

So what now: Mtyhbusters paired with OCC? Two people who KNOW what they
are doing with a rageaholic, a slackeraholic and a buffoon. As long as
they keep Kari Byron, they can ALMOST do whatever they want. :^)

Date: 10 Feb 2007 00:09:41
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

<brian_j_roth@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1171060176.857841.117330@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Good scoop by velonews
>
> http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11627.0.html

Discovery is going through financial problems and it is handy to blame the
CEO.

Check our Versus (ex-OLN) who can't even give us a schedule of the spring
classics. I assume that they don't have enough money to cover them and
during Paris-Roubaix they'll be playing re-runs of the Lumberjack Log
Rolling Championships.

Bill Stapleton is a pretty sharp cookie and I'm betting that he'll have
another boffo sponsor on the string soon.

Ain't it time that Genetech sponsored a team? That would certainly be good
for a lot doping charges.

Date: 13 Feb 2007 22:29:05
From: John Sheatsley
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote in message
news:938zh.224$Jl.217@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> <brian_j_roth@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1171060176.857841.117330@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Good scoop by velonews
>>
>> http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11627.0.html
>
> Discovery is going through financial problems and it is handy to blame the
> CEO.
>
> Check our Versus (ex-OLN) who can't even give us a schedule of the spring
> classics. I assume that they don't have enough money to cover them and
> during Paris-Roubaix they'll be playing re-runs of the Lumberjack Log
> Rolling Championships.
>
> Bill Stapleton is a pretty sharp cookie and I'm betting that he'll have
> another boffo sponsor on the string soon.
>
> Ain't it time that Genetech sponsored a team? That would certainly be good
> for a lot doping charges.
>
>

By accident, I found the following schedules on the Versus web site.
You'd never find them from their home page!

First, dates/times for coverage of the spring classics are at:
http://www.versus.com/cyclysm/

Next, dates/times for coverage of the Amgen Tour of California are at:
http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/28927/?UserDef=true&catID=76
Note that coverage starts this Sunday !

10 degrees Fahrenheit and 8-14 inches of snow forcast tonight in upstate NY.
Hurry up Spring.

Regards,
John

Date: 17 Feb 2007 07:36:48
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 16, 9:20 am, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com > wrote:

> Speak for yourself. I happen to be one of the leading ass-crack model
> rehabilitation therapists on the West, or any, Coast. Ass-crack modeling,
> while a critical part of the plumbing fashion industry, and therefore
> Western Civilization itself (as everyone knows, improved sanitation and
> plumbing is more important has saved more lives through the control of
> diseases like cholera and typhus than antibiotics and viagra combined),
> comes at a tremendous emotional cost.

Or, you can just buy pants that fit. Worked for me. And yes, the
housewives were tacitly appreciative. --D-y

Date: 16 Feb 2007 15:31:28
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 16, 12:26 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:

> There's no such thing as free money;
> when it sounded too good to be true, it was.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/
http://www.usa.gov/

Oh, there is "free money" alright. You are blithely unaware of the
scam that is being run. You're right -- it is too good to be true.

> Most of the tech boom wasn't fraud, but a
> collective suspension of disbelief.

LOL. Yeah..... Right....

One might wonder what could cause such a massive cluster of errors. I
mean who has that kind of power? Hmmm...

Date: 17 Feb 2007 01:32:01
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwhite@ti.com > wrote in message
news:1171668688.600572.13140@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> One might wonder what could cause such a massive cluster of errors. I
> mean who has that kind of power? Hmmm...

Ahem, now that's a really hard question.

You know, I never heard one single Liberal complain when Hitlary was
discovered breaking the law with her Universal Health Care commission. None
of them cried foul when Gary Studds was pegging a male page. He was
re-elected for life the Liberals admired his cheek so much.

Date: 16 Feb 2007 08:26:33
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 16, 3:26 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> On Feb 15, 10:30 am, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 15, 11:31 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > > <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > there's only two ways to lose your shirt. if you borrow money you
> > > > can't pay back or you speculate.
>
> > > And yet you imply that it was borrowing money that caused the dot-com bust
> > > and not a complete lack of any standards for allowing companies without any
> > > product nor sound strategy to go public.
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > a high interest keeps people's greed in check. if interest rates were
> > dropped now the exact same thing would happen.
>

> The tech boom was no different. Everybody competing to
> get in on the IPO of dog-walk.com (if there was one) was
> trying to get in on the IPO to beat out the suckers
> that had to buy the stock retail. Except they were the
> suckers too in the end. There's no such thing as free
> money; when it sounded too good to be true, it was.

dumbass,

thanks for the book reference. the usual rationale for buying a stock
is for the projected returns and growth and you can decide what a good
price is based on that. in the tech bubble everyone was buying stocks
so they could flip them at higher prices, which is a totally different
motivation. people were violating some fundamental principles.

speculation is okay as long as you realize it's gambling and not
investing.

Date: 16 Feb 2007 00:26:40
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 15, 10:30 am, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Feb 15, 11:31 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > there's only two ways to lose your shirt. if you borrow money you
> > > can't pay back or you speculate.
>
> > And yet you imply that it was borrowing money that caused the dot-com bust
> > and not a complete lack of any standards for allowing companies without any
> > product nor sound strategy to go public.
>
> dumbass,
>
> a high interest keeps people's greed in check. if interest rates were
> dropped now the exact same thing would happen.

Greed, yah. A few years back I read a book called "The Big Con."
<http://www.amazon.com/Big-Con-Story-Confidence-Man/dp/0385495382 >
Originally from 1940, written by David Maurer,a linguistics
prof who spent a lot of time in the early 20thC talking to
veteran con men to study their slang and wound up learning a
lot about how confidence games work. "The Sting" was based
on it. It is a great read.

One of the first things to strike you is that cons are
essentially the same throughout time. The wallet full
of newspaper and the phony safe deposit box are the same
as those emails I get from friendly Nigerians having
trouble withdrawing money from their back account.
The more sophisticated "big" cons of the late 19thC
often involved the then-novel telegraph, say relaying
fake advance information about stocks or horse races.
You can see the same thing happening with the novelty
of the Internet.

But the most fundamental thing in the book is the con man's
maxim: "You cannot con an honest man." Every con from
the one Andrew Fastow pulled on Ken Lay to an elaborate
insider-trading swindle to a pyramid scheme to the found
wallet to hustling pool involves seducing the k by
making him think he is getting a special inside deal, a
leg up on everybody else. If a guy on the street comes up
to you saying he found a wallet full of cash and asking for
20 bucks as collateral and then he'll split it with you
once you get to the bank, he will leave you with a wallet
full of newspaper. But if you just wanna turn it in
to the lost and found, he will take off without
relieving you of any cash.

The tech boom was no different. Everybody competing to
get in on the IPO of dog-walk.com (if there was one) was
trying to get in on the IPO to beat out the suckers
that had to buy the stock retail. Except they were the
suckers too in the end. There's no such thing as free
money; when it sounded too good to be true, it was.

This is not to deny that there is fraud. Fraud is
not the same as the con, though. Most of the tech
boom wasn't fraud, but a collective suspension of
disbelief. People conned themselves. They always do.

Ben

Date: 16 Feb 2007 10:49:44
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> People conned themselves. They always do.

Like selling a rock to Sisyphus.

Date: 15 Feb 2007 11:51:02
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 15, 2:46 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171560633.359842.280100@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 15, 11:31 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> >> Sorry but the Clinton administration HAS to take responsibility for
> >> allowing
> >> such preposterous public offerings as "dog-walk.com" - a company whose
> >> business plan was to walk the dogs of busy executives.
>
> > that's not illegal, unless they filed fraudulent reports.
>
> BS, the public doesn't see behind the curtain. It's up to the government to
> regulate public offerings so that there is really SOME value behind the
> offering. 2/3rds of the dot-com companies had no intrinsic value and it
> wasn't apparently to those buying stock.
>
> > it's the govt's job to prevent fraud, not to be there to baby stupid
> > people or stifle new businesses.
>
> You mean like Enron?

dumbass,

correct, enron purposely deceived the public (that's why there was a
criminal investigation) and it led to a massive reform: the sarbanes-
oxley act.

Date: 13 Feb 2007 23:15:54
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"John Sheatsley" <jsheatsley@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:RYqAh.1164$x74.830@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
> news:938zh.224$Jl.217@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> <brian_j_roth@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1171060176.857841.117330@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> Good scoop by velonews
>>>
>>> http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11627.0.html
>>
>> Discovery is going through financial problems and it is handy to blame
>> the CEO.
>>
>> Check our Versus (ex-OLN) who can't even give us a schedule of the spring
>> classics. I assume that they don't have enough money to cover them and
>> during Paris-Roubaix they'll be playing re-runs of the Lumberjack Log
>> Rolling Championships.
>>
>> Bill Stapleton is a pretty sharp cookie and I'm betting that he'll have
>> another boffo sponsor on the string soon.
>>
>> Ain't it time that Genetech sponsored a team? That would certainly be
>> good for a lot doping charges.
>>
>>
>
> By accident, I found the following schedules on the Versus web site.
> You'd never find them from their home page!
>
> First, dates/times for coverage of the spring classics are at:
> http://www.versus.com/cyclysm/
>
> Next, dates/times for coverage of the Amgen Tour of California are at:
> http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/28927/?UserDef=true&catID=76
> Note that coverage starts this Sunday !
>
> 10 degrees Fahrenheit and 8-14 inches of snow forcast tonight in upstate
> NY.
> Hurry up Spring.

John, thanks for the info on the Tour of California.

All of my emails to Versus have gone unanswered but I got exactly the same
accidental hit on that Versus cite. When I first got onto it, it showed the
correct dates but in the text it often said "2006" so that on first glance
it looked like last year's schedule. And at first it didn't show the Tour of
California schedule.

I tried to find it through their home page later and have been totally
unsuccessful.

If there's one thing Versus has shown themselves to be velously efficient
at it's keting. Well negative keting I suppose you might call it. When
you put morons in charge of everything you get moronic actions.

Date: 17 Feb 2007 22:28:59
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 17, 8:29 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Robert Chung" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:53ld45F1suh33U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> >> I've disagreed with you
> >> several times, and certainly poked fun at you over
> >> that co Polo thing
>
> > Dude, you're laughing now but wait 'til Kunich links to the pages that
> > prove that co Polo didn't just reach the North Pole: he reached the
> > South, East, and West Poles, too.
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2006/11/05/warm-refs.pdf;jse...
>
> "In 1421 a Chinese Imperial Navy squadron sailed right round the Arctic and
> found no ice anywhere."
>
> As for co Polo, he lived almost 150 years before that. However, he wrote
> that on a long voyage on a Chinese ship at one point the compass read
> exactly opposite of a sight on the north star. That only occurs at one spot
> in the world - north of the magnetic pole situated at that time somewhere in
> Canada.

The 1421 Chinese navy quote is completely unsourced. However,
most "1421" references are traceable to a book by Gavin Menzies
that gets a lot of press but that no reputable historian
or geographer believes. Most of the "evidence" is fanciful
interpretations of maps and letters.

The co Polo stuff about the compass is equally hard to
trace back. What's the original quotation? 13th century
explorers rarely did us the favor of writing unambiguous
descriptions. Perhaps you can find the original quote in
the source:
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/10636
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/12410

The nonexistent Northwest Passage is a fucking long way
from China. If Polo sailed there with a Chinese fleet
and made it back it suggests a yearslong trip.
It is absurd that anyone is citing this as evidence,
against climate change of all things.

Ben

Date: 18 Feb 2007 19:59:10
From: Stu Fleming
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:

> The co Polo stuff about the compass is equally hard to
> trace back. What's the original quotation? 13th century
> explorers rarely did us the favor of writing unambiguous
> descriptions. Perhaps you can find the original quote in

"When the Vikings settled part of Greenland circa 900 CE, they
established a settlement that lasted longer than the United States has
been around. There was a considerable amount of traffic between
Greenland and Europe, by the standards of the time, so some skippers
were making their first trip. The directions were, at first, to sail two
and a half days west from Iceland to the shore of Greenland where there
stood the landk Blasark (black shirt) Mountain. Then sail down the
coast to Eriksfjord, a beautiful broad straight passage across southern
Greenland. Reaching the west coast they should turn right up the coast
to the navigation ker on Herjolf�s Ness. (About �Bluie West 3�in WW
II.) Turning in to Tunugdliarfik Fjord Erik�s homestead Brattahlid was
only 75 miles at the end of the fjord (across from Bluie West 1, for you
old timers).

After 1200 CE the directions changed. Sail one and a half days west from
Iceland to the edge of the ice pack. If it is clear you might see the
mountain Hvitsark to the west (snow covered now?), then go all the way
down around hazardous Cap Farvel and up the other coast to Herjolf�s
Ness. Eriksfjord was no longer open, nor is it now. As of a decade or so
ago there were two valley glaciers blocking it from the sides."
<http://climatesci.colorado.edu/2007/02/08/
history-getting-back-to-what-it-sort-of-used-to-be
-a-guest-weblog-by-reid-a-bryson-phd-dsc-dengr/ >

Date: 14 Feb 2007 22:14:31
From: Mike Iglesias
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

In article <KErAh.1904$tD2.943@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
>I tried to find it through their home page later and have been totally
>unsuccessful.

The TV schedule for the Tour of Calif is on the ToC web site.

Here's the schedule:

Prologue
Sunday, February 18th 2pm-4pm PST (5pm-7pm EST)

Stage 1
Monday, February 19th 8pm-9pm PST (11pm-12am EST)

Stage 2
Tuesday, February 20th 8pm-9pm PST (11pm-12am EST)

Stage 3
Wednesday, February 21st 8pm-9pm PST (11pm-12am EST)

Stage 4
Thursday, February 22nd 8pm-9pm PST (11pm-12am EST)

Stage 5
Friday, February 23rd 8pm-9pm PST (11pm-12am EST)

Stage 6
Saturday, February 24th 8pm-9pm PST (11pm-12am EST)

Stage 7
Sunday, February 25th 2pm-4pm PST (5pm-7pm EST)

--
Mike Iglesias Email: iglesias@uci.edu
University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069

Date: 13 Feb 2007 17:47:16
From: Steven L. Sheffield
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On 2/13/07 4:15 PM, in article
KErAh.1904$tD2.943@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Tom Kunich"
<cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:

> When you put morons in charge of everything you get moronic actions.

What a perfect commentary on the state of the union, and our policies in
Iraq!

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

Date: 17 Feb 2007 17:25:44
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 17, 4:32 pm, "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net > wrote:

> Suspenders, while not exactly sexy, are utilitarian especially when
> combined with a belt. Nothing like a little "safety factor".

You know, Bill, that secure feeling is a special one, isn't it?

Especially applicable to tights-with-chamois (no underlying backup).

Before the second trip with my new Christmas pair recently, I'd found
my old blue 'spenders, which, working as a team with the drawstring,
did a mighty fine job of providing that all-important "hang factor".
It's hard to pedal with one hand behind your back, you know?

One of the funniest things I've ever seen was someone coming around
from the back, in full attack mode, with his shorts pulled down enough
to show a large expanse of left/right and divide. Great tactic; by the
time everyone quit laughing he was gone. --D-y

Date: 17 Feb 2007 14:32:52
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 17, 10:36 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com >
wrote:
> On Feb 16, 9:20 am, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Speak for yourself. I happen to be one of the leading ass-crack model
> > rehabilitation therapists on the West, or any, Coast. Ass-crack modeling,
> > while a critical part of the plumbing fashion industry, and therefore
> > Western Civilization itself (as everyone knows, improved sanitation and
> > plumbing is more important has saved more lives through the control of
> > diseases like cholera and typhus than antibiotics and viagra combined),
> > comes at a tremendous emotional cost.
>
> Or, you can just buy pants that fit. Worked for me. And yes, the
> housewives were tacitly appreciative. --D-y

Suspenders, while not exactly sexy, are utilitarian especially when
combined with a belt. Nothing like a little "safety factor".
Bill C

Date: 14 Feb 2007 01:43:56
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com > wrote in message
news:C1F7AA24.5B616%stevens@veloworks.com...
> On 2/13/07 4:15 PM, in article
> KErAh.1904$tD2.943@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Tom Kunich"
> <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> When you put morons in charge of everything you get moronic actions.
>
> What a perfect commentary on the state of the union, and our policies in
> Iraq!

Why is it that you aren't a stock broker any long Steven?

Date: 17 Feb 2007 23:44:55
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 17, 11:59 pm, Stu Fleming <stew...@wic.co.nz > wrote:
> b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> > The co Polo stuff about the compass is equally hard to
> > trace back. What's the original quotation? 13th century
> > explorers rarely did us the favor of writing unambiguous
> > descriptions. Perhaps you can find the original quote in
>
> "When the Vikings settled part of Greenland circa 900 CE, they
> established a settlement that lasted longer than the United States has
> been around. There was a considerable amount of traffic between
> Greenland and Europe, by the standards of the time, so some skippers
> were making their first trip. The directions were, at first, to sail two
> and a half days west from Iceland to the shore of Greenland where there
> stood the landk Blasark (black shirt) Mountain. Then sail down the
> coast to Eriksfjord, a beautiful broad straight passage across southern
> Greenland. Reaching the west coast they should turn right up the coast
> to the navigation ker on Herjolf's Ness. (About "Bluie West 3"in WW
> II.) Turning in to Tunugdliarfik Fjord Erik's homestead Brattahlid was
> only 75 miles at the end of the fjord (across from Bluie West 1, for you
> old timers).
>
> After 1200 CE the directions changed. Sail one and a half days west from
> Iceland to the edge of the ice pack. If it is clear you might see the
> mountain Hvitsark to the west (snow covered now?), then go all the way
> down around hazardous Cap Farvel and up the other coast to Herjolf's
> Ness. Eriksfjord was no longer open, nor is it now. As of a decade or so
> ago there were two valley glaciers blocking it from the sides."
> <http://climatesci.colorado.edu/2007/02/08/
> history-getting-back-to-what-it-sort-of-used-to-be
> -a-guest-weblog-by-reid-a-bryson-phd-dsc-dengr/>

One might balance against this set of explicit directions
the fact that explorers in the 16th and 17th centuries
trying to rediscover the Norse colonies in Greenland
missed it because they assumed the "Eastern Settlement"
was on the east coast (it was actually at the southwestern
tip). So the name had been preserved, but not the
directions. Eventually in 1723 it was refound when the
Inuit showed a Norwegian missionary the location.
(Source: Jared Diamond's "Collapse")

It's an oversimplification to say that just climate change
killed off the Greenland Norse. Diamond suggests that
it was a combination of several factors, including
environmental damage they caused (clearing trees, causing
erosion), hostile relations with the Inuit, decreasing
contact and trade with Europe, and most of all their
own inability to adapt their ways to the local environment
and to the change in it. Their settlement in Greenland
was ginal and cooling climate dealt the blow to finish
it off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_the_Red
http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/greenland/

To my understanding, it's not like Greenland was arable
then and is 100% frozen now, so that we would be "getting
back to" a previous era like Bryson's blog entry suggests.
The Danes restarted sheep farms there in the 20thC, although
I think they aren't really viable w/o subsidies from the
mainland. Who knows, in another 100 years maybe it will
look like NZ.

Ben

Date: 18 Feb 2007 15:38:13
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

<bjw@mambo.ucolick.org > wrote in message
news:1171784695.203957.253650@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> It's an oversimplification to say that just climate change
> killed off the Greenland Norse. Diamond suggests that
> it was a combination of several factors, including
> environmental damage they caused (clearing trees, causing
> erosion),

In other words "booga, booga booga!"

Date: 14 Feb 2007 06:51:22
From: Steven L. Sheffield
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On 2/13/07 6:43 PM, in article
wPtAh.1850$Jl.1399@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Tom Kunich"
<cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:

> "Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com> wrote in message
> news:C1F7AA24.5B616%stevens@veloworks.com...
>> On 2/13/07 4:15 PM, in article
>> KErAh.1904$tD2.943@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Tom Kunich"
>> <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>>> When you put morons in charge of everything you get moronic actions.
>>
>> What a perfect commentary on the state of the union, and our policies in
>> Iraq!
>
> Why is it that you aren't a stock broker any long Steven?

Probably because I never was a stock broker ... I'm not a salesman.

I am, however, part of the branch management team here in SLC, and a trader,
registered in all 50 states, plus DC and Puerto Rico, along with the NASD,
NYSE, AMEX, CBOE, PHLX, PCX, and NQX.

And you're still a moron.

From NASDR BrokerCheck:

File for: Data Current as of: 02/14/2007
CRD# 3227770
STEVEN L SHEFFIELD

ALL CURRENT EMPLOYMENTS

This section provides all current employments (investment-related and
non-investment related) as reported on the individual broker's Form U-4. It
displays the name of the employing brokerage firm that employs this
individual broker, the brokerage firm's CRD number (if applicable), the
location of the office where the individual broker is employed, and the
individual broker's start date.

To view information on NASD registered firms, you can click on the brokerage
firm name hyperlink.

If the individual broker is currently employed with an investment adviser,
the investment adviser's name and CRD number will display. However,
additional information is not available on investment advisers through NASD
BrokerCheck as they are not NASD registered brokerage firms.

If the individual broker is currently employed with a brokerage firm
registered with any self-regulatory organization other than NASD (e.g., the
NYSE), either the brokerage firm's name or "Other Business" will display as
the Employing Firm. To obtain the brokerage firm's name when "Other
Business" displays as the Employing Firm, please call the NASD BrokerCheck
Hotline number, 1-800-289-9999.

A Brokerage Firm CRD Number will display for NASD registered brokerage firms
the individual broker is currently associated with. A Brokerage Firm CRD
Number will not display for NASD registered firms the individual broker was
formerly associated with.

In addition, a Brokerage Firm CRD Number will not display for employing
brokerage firms that are not NASD registered firms. Information on these
employing brokerage firms is not available through NASD BrokerCheck.

Employing Brokerage Firm: MORGAN STANLEY DW INC.
Brokerage Firm CRD Number: 7556
Office of Employment
Address: 2500 LAKE PARK BOULEVARD
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT 84120

Start Date: 11/01/2000
End Date: to present

CRD# 3227770
STEVEN L SHEFFIELD

Registrations

This section provides the jurisdictions with which the individual broker is
currently registered or licensed to do business, the category of each
registration, and the date on which the registration approval was granted.

Employer: MORGAN STANLEY DW INC.

Jurisdiction/SRO Category Status Status As Of Date
AK Agent Approved 10/01/2003
AL Agent Approved 10/01/2003
AMEX General Securities Representative Approved 08/20/2002
AR Agent Approved 10/01/2003
AZ Agent Approved 10/01/2003
CA Agent Approved 10/01/2003
CBOE General Securities Representative Approved 08/20/2002
CO Agent Approved 10/01/2003
CT Agent Approved 10/01/2003
DC Agent Approved 10/01/2003
DE Agent Approved 10/01/2003
FL Agent Approved 10/01/2003
GA Agent Approved 10/01/2003
HI Agent Approved 10/01/2003
IA Agent Approved 10/01/2003
ID Agent Approved 10/01/2003
IL Agent Approved 10/01/2003
IN Agent Approved 10/01/2003
KS Agent Approved 10/01/2003
KY Agent Approved 10/01/2003
LA Agent Approved 10/02/2003
MA Agent Approved 10/01/2003
MD Agent Approved 10/01/2003
ME Agent Approved 10/01/2003
MI Agent Approved 10/01/2003
MN Agent Approved 10/01/2003
MO Agent Approved 10/01/2003
MS Agent Approved 10/01/2003
MT Agent Approved 10/01/2003
NASD General Securities Representative Approved 11/07/2000
NC Agent Approved 10/02/2003
ND Agent Approved 10/01/2003
NE Agent Approved 10/01/2003
NH Agent Approved 10/01/2003
NJ Agent Approved 10/01/2003
NM Agent Approved 10/01/2003
NQX General Securities Representative Approved 07/12/2006
NV Agent Approved 10/01/2003
NY Agent Approved 10/01/2003
NYSE General Securities Representative Approved 08/20/2002
OH Agent Approved 10/02/2003
OK Agent Approved 10/01/2003
OR Agent Approved 10/01/2003
PA Agent Approved 10/01/2003
PCX General Securities Representative Approved 08/20/2002
PHLX General Securities Representative Approved 08/20/2002
PR Agent Approved 10/01/2003
RI Agent Approved 10/01/2003
SC Agent Approved 10/01/2003
SD Agent Approved 10/01/2003
TN Agent Approved 10/01/2003
TX Agent Approved 10/01/2003
UT Agent Approved 11/28/2000
VA Agent Approved 10/01/2003
VT Agent Approved 10/01/2003
WA Agent Approved 10/01/2003
WI Agent Approved 10/01/2003
WV Agent Approved 10/01/2003
WY Agent Approved 10/01/2003

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

Date: 14 Feb 2007 14:27:51
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com > wrote in message
news:C1F861EA.5B6CC%stevens@veloworks.com...
> On 2/13/07 6:43 PM, in article
> wPtAh.1850$Jl.1399@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Tom Kunich"
> <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> "Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com> wrote in message
>> news:C1F7AA24.5B616%stevens@veloworks.com...
>>> On 2/13/07 4:15 PM, in article
>>> KErAh.1904$tD2.943@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Tom Kunich"
>>> <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> When you put morons in charge of everything you get moronic actions.
>>>
>>> What a perfect commentary on the state of the union, and our policies in
>>> Iraq!
>>
>> Why is it that you aren't a stock broker any long Steven?
>
> Probably because I never was a stock broker ... I'm not a salesman.
>
> I am, however, part of the branch management team here in SLC, and a
> trader,
> registered in all 50 states, plus DC and Puerto Rico, along with the NASD,
> NYSE, AMEX, CBOE, PHLX, PCX, and NQX.

Touch a nerve there little man? Funny that when you were on the "management
team" in San Francisco that you still worked in a bike shop to make some
money.

Date: 14 Feb 2007 18:07:14
From: Steven L. Sheffield
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On 2/14/07 7:27 AM, in article
H%EAh.2055$tD2.54@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Tom Kunich"
<cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:

> Touch a nerve there little man? Funny that when you were on the "management
> team" in San Francisco that you still worked in a bike shop to make some
> money.

The only management team I was on in SF was at Vetta, where I was the
Customer Service/Warranty Manager, for what was essentially a bankrupt
accessories company.

When I started working for Morgan Stanley (via Discover Brokerage Direct) in
1999, I was doing Technical Support, which is what brought me to Utah when
the company saw fit to close our Operations Center in Oakland. Apparently I
was doing a good enough job to be offered a relocation package; one of only
6 people of nearly 200 given that option.

I worked at A Bicycle Odyssey because I loved being around bikes, and Tony
Tom is/was a great boss, from whom I learned a great deal.

If I was still in the Bay Area, I'd still work for Tony, just for the
knowledge, no matter how much money I was making elsewhere.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

Date: 15 Feb 2007 02:50:58
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

"Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com > wrote in message
news:C1F90052.5B73E%stevens@veloworks.com...
> On 2/14/07 7:27 AM, in article
>
> I worked at A Bicycle Odyssey because I loved being around bikes, and Tony
> Tom is/was a great boss, from whom I learned a great deal.
>
> If I was still in the Bay Area, I'd still work for Tony, just for the
> knowledge, no matter how much money I was making elsewhere.

And yet you still have your head up your ass.

Date: 16 Feb 2007 15:25:07
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On Feb 15, 9:26 am, Curtis L. Russell <cur...@md-bicycling.org > wrote:

> In any event, an administration can have an immediate impact on
> interest rates,...

Hmmm...

I thought they taught us in skool that the FED had the most control
over the interest rate, and mostly through OMO these days. The FED is
independent of the Congress and the Executive, by design.

I suppose fiscal policy of Congress and the Executive, through
crowding out, should affect the interest rate some (it would
indirectly change time preferences). The interest rate is the time
preference premium, meaning "we'd rather have things now rather than
later."

To me it seems the FED directly distorts the interest rate, while
Congress and the Executive can only indirectly distort it (and I don't
even think this is what they are trying to do with fiscal policy). So
I don't get the "immediate impact on interest rates" comment.

What do you think?

Date: 18 Feb 2007 17:35:37
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Discovery ends sponsorship at end of 2007

On 16 Feb 2007 15:25:07 -0800, "SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwhite@ti.com >
wrote:

>I thought they taught us in skool that the FED had the most control
>over the interest rate, and mostly through OMO these days. The FED is
>independent of the Congress and the Executive, by design.

The Federal Reserve sets the reserve rate, but that is only one piece
of the interest rate 'pie'. Administrative policy can impact the rates
you and I pay in a heart beat - an announcement on ket policies
today can start changes with the interbank rate that evening.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...