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Main
Date: 23 Sep 2007 18:15:37
From: Marian
Subject: Easy Fast
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Remind me to never ever ever (and I do mean ever) do anything that
stupid again.
This is the second time in my life that I've skipped going to Yom
Kippur services.
Last year it was because I didn't know about the relatively nearby
(ninety minutes by air) Guangzhou Chabad House.
This year it was specifically because I did know about the relatively
nearby Guangzhou Chabad House and was amazingly unimpressed.
Last year I ended up breaking the fast two hours early with a
chocolate bar from my refrigerator. It was the first time since I
started the yearly fast that I didn't make it.
This year I mostly kept the fast. There were certain things that I
absolutely just had to have. Like the antibiotics for my ear
infection. And I think I can be forgiven the menthol cough drops.
While I am a freak who regularly enough has ear nose and throat
infections such that I like menthol cough drops as a candy I think, in
this case, they really counted as medicine. Besides which, it isn't
as if seven cough drops over the course of 24 hours really counts as
food.
The bottle of water I was sipping on could be construed by the most
observant of formal Orthodoxy as breaking the fast. I prefer to think
of it as being a necessity for health reasons related to living in the
tropics.
The can of Red Bull Energy Drink was definitely a bending of the
rules, a loss of will as it were. But I was about to take my place at
the start line of the 2007 Hainan Province "Shimano Cup" Mountain Bike
Race and there was an iced Red Bull available for every competitor. I
chugged it.
'Fast' and 'race' go together.
'Fasting' and 'racing' do not.
Funny language English.
All in all I'm pretty impressed with my seventh place. There were
more than twenty women. I was already back behind people who, under
normal circumstances, I can quite easily beat. But, even if they
shouldn't have been able to beat me, I shouldn't have been able to
beat as many of the people I did beat.
Not that long ago, when I was in Qinghai, I described oxygen
deprivation and elevation sickness as "feeling sort of like really low
blood sugar" with the exception that I'd never actually let my blood
sugar get quite so low as to feel quite so lethargically unable to
move through air suddenly thicker than water while I struggled in vain
to open my eyes.
And while I was a different sort of bad off than I was at Qinghai I
can now say for certain that extremely low blood sugar really isn't
all that different from oxygen deprivation and elevation sickness.
I don't especially recommend either.
I'd probably have done better with the racing if I hadn't done the
additional loop to check out the course beforehand. I was on a
borrowed mountain bike with a pair of borrowed sneakers and it seemed
like a good idea at the time to do an extra loop ahead of time just to
make sure everything fit alright.
(As part of the lead up to the 2007 Tour of Hainan I am spending up to
six days a week neglecting my real job in Sanya to be a translator and
general English speaker for the Organizing Committee. I only brought
the road bike, the road shoes, civilian clothes, and a pair of girly
sandals with me to Haikou.)
It was on the third and final loop of the race itself as the black
spots danced in front of my vision and I really wasn't quite sure
which one of them was the black clad girl I was trying to catch up
with that I came to the conclusion that I really really shouldn't have
done that. In retrospect I couldn't really decide if the 'that' in
question was the first loop or if it was the 15km ride to the race and
the race itself.
Just past the finish line I stumbled off the bike, slumping low over
the handlebars, wished my stomach had something in it for me to vomit
out, and lied profusely to my friends as I said I was perfectly fine
and there was nothing to worry about.
Well there was nothing to worry about. I wasn't fine but my lack of
fineness was my own damn fault and as long as I didn't faint which I
probably wasn't going to do if I could just make the world stand still
there wasn't going to be anything to worry about.
Besides which, if I did faint that was what the nice ambulance men
were there for.
If it had come to that, would an IV glucose drip count as breaking the
fast?
Lift leg over top of bicycle.
Succeed at not falling down.
Walk.
Walk.
Walk.
Sit.
Stay.
For a span of time that even with things to watch and people to talk
to couldn't have really been well over three hours. The black spots
went away but I was getting kind of loopy near the end. Lots of
people offered me bananas - the Cyclists' Snack Food of Choice - and I
always had to refuse and the explaining why I was looking pale and wan
and listless and didn't want bananas seemed very confusing even when I
was the one doing all the talking.
Watching clouds with low blood sugar is really lots more interesting
than listening to Kol Nidre. Not sure how religious an interesting
experience it is but it was definitely interesting. If indeed there
is a God then it is most certainly God who put into motion the forces
that created the pretty clouds as well as the forces that led to the
existence of the person watching the pretty clouds so it stands to
reason that the experience must, on some level, have been religious
but ... don't mind me, some of my best friends are missionaries and
I've recently gotten into the bad habit of philosophical discussions
on the nature of religion.
At the very moment the sky was sufficiently dark, I broke my fast on a
package of instant noodles grabbed at a stoplight from a friend of
mine who had won a case of them in the beginners' relay. I didn't
merely eat them or consume them so much as inhale them.
Even the ice cream sundaes at Vacarro's Bakery in Baltimore's Little
Italy that have been my family's Break Fast tradition for years now
don't taste nearly as good as that package of instant noodles did.
And despite what I've been told by my diabetic dad about recovery time
from low blood sugar it was almost as near instant a reaction as the
supplemental oxygen in Menyuan. And while the change wasn't quite as
extreme of a feeling much better it suddenly became much easier to not
merely focus my eyes but keep them focussed.
I then had a kilo of oranges.
I then had a large dinner.
I then had dessert.
And a late night snack.
Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.
-M
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 12:39:24
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
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On Sep 26, 8:47 am, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Sep 26, 7:27 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > The adaptation towards fat burning is the key behind the theory, and
> > controlling the intensity so you don't bonk. It was pretty easy to do
> > a couple of hours of low/mid intensity riding even after basically no
> > carbs for 18 hours or so. An increase in the intensity would bonk me.
> > That happened once or twice so I learned to carry energy bars, just
> > in case.
> > The weird thing it did is if I eat much of anything solid, say more
> > than one bananna or bar, before riding or racing I feel like garbage.
> > I'd say the limit is at least two hours before.
>
> dumbass,
>
> whatever you're trying to do - it's misguided.
>
> the only significant way to increase fat burning (ie. oxidative)
> capacity is to increase fitness. you could even say endurance training
> is almost all about increasing one's oxidative capacity.
>
> your "exercise" pointlessly limits your intensity and you are
> thwarting both the effort of building of fitness (and fat burning
> capacity) and calorie burning.
>
> in addition the body always needs some sugar so if it's running low it
> has to break down protein (ie. muscle) to make sugar. sugar can't be
> made from fat.
>
> your theory hinges on the naive idea that you can adapt your body to
> use fat (to what end you haven't made clear) by depriving it of
> sugar.
It's not my theory. It's been a standard nutrition theory for at least
25 years. I't been published repeatedly and discussed to death.
I won't cite any of the bodybuilding/fitness/nutrition links because
you'd just piss on them so here's some other stuff. Remember the key
is to lose fat, retain muscle mass, keep your BMR up, not just lose
weight. You are aiming to lose as LITTLE muscle as possible, and
maintain your BMR while doing it. You seem confused on those points.
http://tinyurl.com/2y93vj
Home Information for patients Services (Support) Weight Management
Physiology of Weight Loss
Physiology of Weight Loss
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/461114_4
Like I said there are a million other sources for info on this too.
Bill C
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 12:47:28
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
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On Sep 26, 7:27 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net > wrote:
> The adaptation towards fat burning is the key behind the theory, and
> controlling the intensity so you don't bonk. It was pretty easy to do
> a couple of hours of low/mid intensity riding even after basically no
> carbs for 18 hours or so. An increase in the intensity would bonk me.
> That happened once or twice so I learned to carry energy bars, just
> in case.
> The weird thing it did is if I eat much of anything solid, say more
> than one bananna or bar, before riding or racing I feel like garbage.
> I'd say the limit is at least two hours before.
dumbass,
whatever you're trying to do - it's misguided.
the only significant way to increase fat burning (ie. oxidative)
capacity is to increase fitness. you could even say endurance training
is almost all about increasing one's oxidative capacity.
your "exercise" pointlessly limits your intensity and you are
thwarting both the effort of building of fitness (and fat burning
capacity) and calorie burning.
in addition the body always needs some sugar so if it's running low it
has to break down protein (ie. muscle) to make sugar. sugar can't be
made from fat.
your theory hinges on the naive idea that you can adapt your body to
use fat (to what end you haven't made clear) by depriving it of
sugar.
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 04:27:27
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
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On Sep 26, 12:39 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net > wrote:
>
> A good thing about regular exercise is that
> one's metabolism becomes adapted to metabolizing
> fat, even when not bonking. Sedentary individuals
> have low levels of fat burning hormones.
>
> --
> Michael Press- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The adaptation towards fat burning is the key behind the theory, and
controlling the intensity so you don't bonk. It was pretty easy to do
a couple of hours of low/mid intensity riding even after basically no
carbs for 18 hours or so. An increase in the intensity would bonk me.
That happened once or twice so I learned to carry energy bars, just
in case.
The weird thing it did is if I eat much of anything solid, say more
than one bananna or bar, before riding or racing I feel like garbage.
I'd say the limit is at least two hours before.
Bill C
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 09:56:07
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
Marian wrote:
> [religious fundamentalist crap]
I like your long stories. Those kind of posts always make me feel a
little guilty that I hardly contribute anything longer than a few
lines. Keep 'm coming.
--
E. Dronkert
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 06:41:40
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 25, 1:58 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> > Ben
> > RBR Halakhic Authority
>
> Dumbass,
> Is andoulette kosher ?
Meine zaftige shnook,
Kashrut as it is today is a set of somewhat arbitrary
and highly interpreted laws, but many authorities think
that the original laws of kosher were motivated in part
as a set of health regulations or advisories - for
example, shellfish are treyf, and shellfish are also
a good way to get sick, especially before refrigeration.
One of the original health regulations was quite likely
"Don't eat stuff that smells like poop."
Ben
My health requires regular ingestion of
carnitas burritos and tacos al pastor.
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 05:04:41
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
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On Sep 26, 8:59 am, Marlene Blanshay <blans...@videotron.ca > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > In article <3NSdnXqAlPl7ImvbnZ2dnUVZ_rKtn...@comcast.com>,
> > "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
> >> <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>
>
> >>> Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.
>
> >>> -M
> >> What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
> >> the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?
>
> >> Phil H
>
> > You can fast, or you can race, but don't mix them.
>
> and besides that...if you ride a bike on Yom, don't you get a big old
> lightning bolt coming down on your head?
As I am still here, apparently not.
If I'm also _still_ here NEXT Yom Kippur we'll know for certain that
God is okay with bike racing on the High Holydays :)
-M
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Date: 26 Sep 2007 10:17:37
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
Marian wrote:
> If I'm also _still_ here NEXT Yom Kippur we'll know for certain that
> God is okay with bike racing on the High Holydays :)
Eddy says its OK anyway.
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 06:03:57
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 25, 8:25 am, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Sep 24, 10:08 pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1190683683.728528.157910@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > >> Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
> > >> glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
>
> > > dumbass,
>
> > > the body doesn't work like that.
>
> > >> I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
> > >> reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
>
> > > dumbass,
>
> > > what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
> > > not the order in which you eat and exercise.
>
> > What matters about what....... weight loss, athletic performance? This
> > thread is about fasting and racing and not about weight loss.
>
> dumbass,
>
> my response was to bill's post, how do you interpret this ?
>
> "It causes your body to deplete what little glycogen you have quickly
> and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
> ...
> I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
> reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy."
>
> it sounds to me like bill is giving weight loss advice.
>
> but depriving a body of sugar during exercise isn't going to make it
> burn fat.
>
> the ratio of fat/sugar burned is mostly dependent on relative
> intensity.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You're right to a point. Once/ as the glycogen reserve is depleted the
body switches to a higher percentage of fat burned also. They go
together with nutrition, meal timing, etc...to get what you want. Once
again, nothing, other than humans, is simple.
Bill C
Tons of research out there on this stuff.
Maybe Lynn Wallace has some more up to date research than I do on it.
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 12:30:48
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 25, 1:03 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1190684273.459395.99...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 24, 9:28 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
> > > > glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
>
> > > dumbass,
>
> > > the body doesn't work like that.
>
> > > > I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
> > > > reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
>
> > > dumbass,
>
> > > what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
> > > not the order in which you eat and exercise.
> > I have no idea why you, and you alone have declared a personal pissing
> > match with me. This is antique news as sports medicine.
>
> >http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/19991222/eating_fat_endurance
>
> > Once again you are clueless when attacking me. You still insisting
> > that the sun orbits the earth?
> > Bill C
>
> Bill:
>
> Holy crap, did you read that synopsis?!!
>
> The "high-fat" meal was a "90% fat meal"
andouillette ?
i can guess what the other 10% was
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 12:25:35
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 24, 10:08 pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice > wrote:
> <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1190683683.728528.157910@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
> >> glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > the body doesn't work like that.
>
> >> I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
> >> reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
> > not the order in which you eat and exercise.
>
> What matters about what....... weight loss, athletic performance? This
> thread is about fasting and racing and not about weight loss.
>
dumbass,
my response was to bill's post, how do you interpret this ?
"It causes your body to deplete what little glycogen you have quickly
and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
...
I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy."
it sounds to me like bill is giving weight loss advice.
but depriving a body of sugar during exercise isn't going to make it
burn fat.
the ratio of fat/sugar burned is mostly dependent on relative
intensity.
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 21:39:15
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
In article
<1190723135.680328.164230@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com >,
"amit.ghosh@gmail.com" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Sep 24, 10:08 pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
> > <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1190683683.728528.157910@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
> > >> glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
> >
> > > dumbass,
> >
> > > the body doesn't work like that.
> >
> > >> I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
> > >> reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
> >
> > > dumbass,
> >
> > > what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
> > > not the order in which you eat and exercise.
> >
> > What matters about what....... weight loss, athletic performance? This
> > thread is about fasting and racing and not about weight loss.
> >
>
> dumbass,
>
> my response was to bill's post, how do you interpret this ?
>
> "It causes your body to deplete what little glycogen you have quickly
> and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
> ...
> I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
> reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy."
>
> it sounds to me like bill is giving weight loss advice.
>
> but depriving a body of sugar during exercise isn't going to make it
> burn fat.
>
> the ratio of fat/sugar burned is mostly dependent on relative
> intensity.
It is true that you can arrange matters so that all
available sugar is used up, and you are reduced to
burning fat. This is commonly called `bonking.'
You do not die, but you feel like shit.
A good thing about regular exercise is that
one's metabolism becomes adapted to metabolizing
fat, even when not bonking. Sedentary individuals
have low levels of fat burning hormones.
--
Michael Press
|
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 04:49:16
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 25, 1:03 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
>
> Bill:
>
> Holy crap, did you read that synopsis?!!
>
> The "high-fat" meal was a "90% fat meal" which included an injection of
> heparin!
>
> That's some weeeeeird science.
>
> Oh, for the rest of you, the high-fat meal contributed to an increase in
> endurance in a 90-100 minute work-to-exhaustion test, versus a control
> meal of 70% carbs.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
This was the first study that I'd seen specifically on aerobic/
endurance exercise. I'm familiar with this stuff from bodybuilding,
where losing fat while retaining muscle is critical before contests.
This has been a big topic of research for a long time in that world.
The key there is what level of intensity of cardio causes the most
calorie loss using the highest percentage of fat for fuel, and how to
get it.
The high fat diet stuff that morphed into the Atkins Diet came out of
bb from back in the late 70s early 80s too. That's one I never bought
into. It killed my energy levels and I always had trouble with my
stomach. I think my ratios of protein-carbs-fat were pretty typical
and they cycled but were generally:
maintainence: 35% protein - 45% carbs - 20% fat
Power cycle: 45% protein - 40% carbs - 15% fat Your doing no cardio
here.
cutting/pre contest: 35/40% protein - 50/55% carbs - under 10% fats.
several low - moderate intensity aerobic/cardio sessions along with
lower weights/higher reps/no rest gym work. For me it was about an
hour ride in the morning before breakfast. Gym at lunch time. Ride
again right about 5:30 for another hour or so. I'd eat between four
and six small meals with up to like 25grams of protein each time
shifting the carb/protein ratio over the day from high carbs in the AM
to low carb/high protein before bed.
That was pretty typical for just about everyone I knew except some
people would split the gym work and do two sessions in the gym and
maybe cut the second cardio.
Sorry for the worse than usual typing(didn't think that was
possible). On the third new keyboard this week and they all suck.
Bill C
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Date: 25 Sep 2007 07:46:19
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 25, 2:03 pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> On Sep 23, 11:15 am, Marian <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Remind me to never ever ever (and I do mean ever) do anything that
> > stupid again. ....
> > It was on the third and final loop of the race itself as the black
> > spots danced in front of my vision and I really wasn't quite sure
> > which one of them was the black clad girl I was trying to catch up
> > with that I came to the conclusion that I really really shouldn't have
> > done that. In retrospect I couldn't really decide if the 'that' in
> > question was the first loop or if it was the 15km ride to the race and
> > the race itself.
>
> > Just past the finish line I stumbled off the bike, slumping low over
> > the handlebars, wished my stomach had something in it for me to vomit
> > out, and lied profusely to my friends as I said I was perfectly fine
> > and there was nothing to worry about.
>
> > Well there was nothing to worry about. I wasn't fine but my lack of
> > fineness was my own damn fault and as long as I didn't faint which I
> > probably wasn't going to do if I could just make the world stand still
> > there wasn't going to be anything to worry about.
>
> > Besides which, if I did faint that was what the nice ambulance men
> > were there for.
> > If it had come to that, would an IV glucose drip count as breaking the
> > fast?
>
> > Lift leg over top of bicycle.
> > Succeed at not falling down.
> > Walk.
> > Walk.
> > Walk.
> > Sit.
> > Stay.
>
> > For a span of time that even with things to watch and people to talk
> > to couldn't have really been well over three hours. The black spots
> > went away but I was getting kind of loopy near the end. Lots of
> > people offered me bananas - the Cyclists' Snack Food of Choice - and I
> > always had to refuse and the explaining why I was looking pale and wan
> > and listless and didn't want bananas seemed very confusing even when I
> > was the one doing all the talking.
>
> Nudnik,
>
> It is considered improper (even sinful) to fast if it
> endangers one's life. One might regard it as egotistical,
> putting one's own virtue or adherence to the supposed
> law on a pedestal. It is unlikely that your life was
> in danger, but nevertheless, having chosen to race
> on Yom Kippur (And what's wrong with that, says the
> dissenter? Fasting is intended as a form of abstention
> to focus the mind, and if bike racers understand three
> things, they are hunger, focus, and a drop of masochism) ...
I've never found the fast to especially focus my mind though I find
that post-fast reflection on why in the heck did I do that does make
me think about a lot of things.
Got to say though that racing on Yom Kippur was much easier (in
certain respects) than racing on Passover. Try explaining to your
friends that you can't have beer at the post-race dinner, or the post-
race party, or the follow up party held three days later.
> Anyway, having already raced on Yom Kippur, refusing
> food despite a bad case of the bonk is endangering
> oneself and practicing a hollow virtue. Better you
> should take the banana offered by your friends then
> your friends should worry as you are loaded into an
> ambulance with a glucose IV drip.
Being as I was already loopy from bonking I was, quite probably, too
loopy from bonking to have thought that out completely. Mostly I was
thinking, I'm not going to faint I'm not going to faint I'm not going
to faint mixed with if it gets any worse I will eat and if it gets
worse too quickly for me to notice and do something about there are
some nice doctor people over there.
I only felt really really bad at the end of the very last loop and
right after I crossed the finish line. I've had friends who've pushed
hard enough either in training or racing that they've thrown up
shortly after getting off the bike but I've never been that nauseous
before and even though I knew that the nausea was related to the lack
of food and could probably be fixed by adding food to the equation the
act of not wanting to eat (at least during the worst of the
lightheadedness) was more than hollow virtue. It was also really -
not- wanting to eat.
As for the offering of food - They'd've been offering me food whether
I was pale and listless or whether or not I had food in front of me.
The offering of food to fellow cyclists is like the sniffing of butts
for dogs.
> The impulse to continue with an observance in the face
> of one's health or sense is universal. The story is
> told of the 19th century Rabbi Salanter of Vilna that
> when a cholera epidemic ravaged the city during Yom Kippur,
> he not only urged the citizens to eat, but actually stood
> in the synagogue on the bimah, produced a piece of
> bread and blessed and ate it in front of the
> congregation.
Still feels wrong.
> So race, eat, feel guilty afterward. It's the Jewish
> tradition.
:)
-M
|
| |
Date: 25 Sep 2007 06:03:51
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 23, 11:15 am, Marian <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Remind me to never ever ever (and I do mean ever) do anything that
> stupid again. ....
> It was on the third and final loop of the race itself as the black
> spots danced in front of my vision and I really wasn't quite sure
> which one of them was the black clad girl I was trying to catch up
> with that I came to the conclusion that I really really shouldn't have
> done that. In retrospect I couldn't really decide if the 'that' in
> question was the first loop or if it was the 15km ride to the race and
> the race itself.
>
> Just past the finish line I stumbled off the bike, slumping low over
> the handlebars, wished my stomach had something in it for me to vomit
> out, and lied profusely to my friends as I said I was perfectly fine
> and there was nothing to worry about.
>
> Well there was nothing to worry about. I wasn't fine but my lack of
> fineness was my own damn fault and as long as I didn't faint which I
> probably wasn't going to do if I could just make the world stand still
> there wasn't going to be anything to worry about.
>
> Besides which, if I did faint that was what the nice ambulance men
> were there for.
> If it had come to that, would an IV glucose drip count as breaking the
> fast?
>
> Lift leg over top of bicycle.
> Succeed at not falling down.
> Walk.
> Walk.
> Walk.
> Sit.
> Stay.
>
> For a span of time that even with things to watch and people to talk
> to couldn't have really been well over three hours. The black spots
> went away but I was getting kind of loopy near the end. Lots of
> people offered me bananas - the Cyclists' Snack Food of Choice - and I
> always had to refuse and the explaining why I was looking pale and wan
> and listless and didn't want bananas seemed very confusing even when I
> was the one doing all the talking.
Nudnik,
It is considered improper (even sinful) to fast if it
endangers one's life. One might regard it as egotistical,
putting one's own virtue or adherence to the supposed
law on a pedestal. It is unlikely that your life was
in danger, but nevertheless, having chosen to race
on Yom Kippur (And what's wrong with that, says the
dissenter? Fasting is intended as a form of abstention
to focus the mind, and if bike racers understand three
things, they are hunger, focus, and a drop of masochism) ...
Anyway, having already raced on Yom Kippur, refusing
food despite a bad case of the bonk is endangering
oneself and practicing a hollow virtue. Better you
should take the banana offered by your friends then
your friends should worry as you are loaded into an
ambulance with a glucose IV drip.
The impulse to continue with an observance in the face
of one's health or sense is universal. The story is
told of the 19th century Rabbi Salanter of Vilna that
when a cholera epidemic ravaged the city during Yom Kippur,
he not only urged the citizens to eat, but actually stood
in the synagogue on the bimah, produced a piece of
bread and blessed and ate it in front of the
congregation.
So race, eat, feel guilty afterward. It's the Jewish
tradition.
Ben
RBR Halakhic Authority
|
| | |
Date: 25 Sep 2007 10:58:58
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> Ben
> RBR Halakhic Authority
Dumbass,
Is andoulette kosher ?
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Sep 2007 21:42:28
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
In article
<46f8cb2c$0$24895$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com >,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com > wrote:
> bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> > Ben
> > RBR Halakhic Authority
>
> Dumbass,
> Is andoulette kosher ?
If it was circumcised by a rabbi.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Sep 2007 11:19:30
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
Donald Munro wrote:
> Is andoulette kosher ?
Dumblexic,
It's "andouillette", and no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andouillette
--
E. Dronkert
|
| |
Date: 24 Sep 2007 19:29:09
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 24, 10:08 pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice > wrote:
> <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1190683683.728528.157910@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
> >> glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > the body doesn't work like that.
>
> >> I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
> >> reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
> > not the order in which you eat and exercise.
>
> What matters about what....... weight loss, athletic performance? This
> thread is about fasting and racing and not about weight loss.
>
> Phil H- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Fasting and racing are a bad idea. Hard to dispute that. Amit has NO
clue about physiology. DUH less food in, lower weight, but when you
are trying to spare muscle it becomes a little more complicated.
That's a little beyond his limited comprehension, or his blind spot.
If I claimed round bowling balls were better than cubic he'd attack me
on it.
maybe he thinks losing hard earned muscle, because it weighs more
than fat, is a great thing for an athlete but I don't know anyone else
who does. The key is to get lean and reatin the muscle and strength.
Whatever. I admit the earth is flat, and worship Amit!
Bill C
|
| |
Date: 25 Sep 2007 02:04:16
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 24, 9:37 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net > wrote:
> On Sep 24, 9:28 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:> On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
> > > glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > the body doesn't work like that.
>
> > > I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
> > > reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
> > not the order in which you eat and exercise.
>
> I have no idea why you, and you alone have declared a personal pissing
> match with me. This is antique news as sports medicine.
dumbass,
because you're a dumbass and say retarded things.
if a person is trying to lose weight it's the amount of calories
burned that's important not the percentage of it that's fat.
the article you posted doesn't back up your claim (that fasting
increases the percentage of fat burned) whatsoever - but what does it
matter if it leads to early fatigue - which is counterproductive ?
|
| |
Date: 24 Sep 2007 18:37:53
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 24, 9:28 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
> > glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
>
> dumbass,
>
> the body doesn't work like that.
>
> > I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
> > reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
>
> dumbass,
>
> what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
> not the order in which you eat and exercise.
I have no idea why you, and you alone have declared a personal pissing
match with me. This is antique news as sports medicine.
http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/19991222/eating_fat_endurance
Once again you are clueless when attacking me. You still insisting
that the sun orbits the earth?
Bill C
|
| | |
Date: 25 Sep 2007 05:03:08
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
In article <1190684273.459395.99950@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com >,
Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net > wrote:
> On Sep 24, 9:28 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
> > > glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
> >
> > dumbass,
> >
> > the body doesn't work like that.
> >
> > > I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
> > > reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
> >
> > dumbass,
> >
> > what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
> > not the order in which you eat and exercise.
> I have no idea why you, and you alone have declared a personal pissing
> match with me. This is antique news as sports medicine.
>
> http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/19991222/eating_fat_endurance
>
> Once again you are clueless when attacking me. You still insisting
> that the sun orbits the earth?
> Bill C
Bill:
Holy crap, did you read that synopsis?!!
The "high-fat" meal was a "90% fat meal" which included an injection of
heparin!
That's some weeeeeird science.
Oh, for the rest of you, the high-fat meal contributed to an increase in
endurance in a 90-100 minute work-to-exhaustion test, versus a control
meal of 70% carbs.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| |
Date: 25 Sep 2007 01:28:03
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net > wrote:
>
> Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
> glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
dumbass,
the body doesn't work like that.
> I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
> reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
dumbass,
what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
not the order in which you eat and exercise.
|
| | |
Date: 24 Sep 2007 19:08:54
From: Phil Holman
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
<amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190683683.728528.157910@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
>> glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
>
> dumbass,
>
> the body doesn't work like that.
>
>> I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
>> reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
>
> dumbass,
>
> what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
> not the order in which you eat and exercise.
What matters about what....... weight loss, athletic performance? This
thread is about fasting and racing and not about weight loss.
Phil H
|
| |
Date: 23 Sep 2007 18:29:13
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 23, 8:43 pm, Marian <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Sep 24, 3:34 am, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
> > <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>
>
> > > Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.
>
> > > -M
>
> > What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
> > the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?
>
> Racing while fasting.
>
> -M
Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
Bonking badly is a real learning experience, isn't it?
I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
Bill C
|
| |
Date: 24 Sep 2007 00:43:02
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
On Sep 24, 3:34 am, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice > wrote:
> <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>
>
> > Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.
>
> > -M
>
> What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
> the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?
Racing while fasting.
-M
|
| | |
Date: 24 Sep 2007 21:03:48
From: Steve Freides
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
"Marian" <marian.rosenberg@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190594582.727869.279870@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 24, 3:34 am, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>> <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>
>>
>> > Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.
>>
>> > -M
>>
>> What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting,
>> breaking
>> the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?
>
> Racing while fasting.
Racing while fasting makes absolutely no sense from a religious point of
view as it's certainly as forbidden as eating on Yom Kippur. Now, if
lightening were to have stricken you while you raced on your
not-really-empty stomach, _that_ would have been something to write to
the newsgroup about. :)
Steve "married a shiksa" Freides
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Sep 2007 19:00:05
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
In article <5lr5avF9jurnU1@mid.individual.net >,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com > wrote:
> "Marian" <marian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1190594582.727869.279870@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> > On Sep 24, 3:34 am, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
> >> <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>
> >>
> >> > Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.
> >>
> >> > -M
> >>
> >> What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting,
> >> breaking
> >> the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?
> >
> > Racing while fasting.
>
> Racing while fasting makes absolutely no sense from a religious point of
> view as it's certainly as forbidden as eating on Yom Kippur. Now, if
> lightening were to have stricken you while you raced on your
> not-really-empty stomach, _that_ would have been something to write to
> the newsgroup about. :)
Well, fasting can lead to lightening (kidding, sorry!).
--
tanx,
Howard
Faberge eggs are elegant but I prefer Faberge bacon.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
|
| | |
Date: 24 Sep 2007 21:59:45
From: Stu Fleming
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
Marian wrote:
> On Sep 24, 3:34 am, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>> <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>
>>
>>> Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.
>>> -M
>> What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
>> the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?
>
> Racing while fasting.
I once had the great fortune to train with Brian Temple (Commonwealth
Games silver medallist, sprint 1970). One night after stomping round
the training circuit with Big Brian "just hanging on" to my wheel, I
thought I had the cycling game cracked. Only when he pulled up
alongside, gave me a big grin and said "I knew I shouldn't have come out
after giving a pint of blood at lunchtime"...
|
| |
Date: 23 Sep 2007 12:34:46
From: Phil Holman
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
<snip long interesting story of internal conflict >
> Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.
>
> -M
What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?
Phil H
|
| | |
Date: 24 Sep 2007 01:31:32
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
In article <3NSdnXqAlPl7ImvbnZ2dnUVZ_rKtnZ2d@comcast.com >,
"Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice > wrote:
> <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>
>
> > Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.
> >
> > -M
>
> What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
> the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?
>
> Phil H
You can fast, or you can race, but don't mix them.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Sep 2007 20:59:44
From: Marlene Blanshay
Subject: Re: Easy Fast
|
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <3NSdnXqAlPl7ImvbnZ2dnUVZ_rKtnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
>> <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>
>>
>>> Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.
>>>
>>> -M
>> What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
>> the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?
>>
>> Phil H
>
> You can fast, or you can race, but don't mix them.
>
and besides that...if you ride a bike on Yom, don't you get a big old
lightning bolt coming down on your head?
|
|
